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Old 11-24-2017, 03:38 PM   #1
JC150
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Default Float Plane Ramp & Hangar

I am looking for some lakefront property for my family along the east coast. Initially we were looking for something in TN, GA, VA, Carolinas, etc, but all of the lakes in the southeast seem to be man-made and require permits for everything including building a dock. We found out in order to do what we're looking for, we have to find a natural lake and nothing in the southeast meets our requirements.

One of our requirements is we need to be able to build a concrete ramp for our float plane so we can taxi it from the water and onto land and be able to keep it inside a hangar next to the house.

Would we be able to do something like this at Winnipesaukee?

I realize there's an airport near the lake but we'd prefer to fly from our corporate hangar straight to a lake house. Thanks.
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Old 11-24-2017, 04:26 PM   #2
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Default Lots of Rules in NH too

Most anything done within the waters of NH requires permits from NHDES. I'm no expert but putting in your own ramp is probably not permissible but NHDES would be able to point you in the right direction.

https://www.des.nh.gov/

Then there's probably some more rules about exactly where you can land and take off on the water.

Lots of rules in the Live Free or Die state.
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Old 11-24-2017, 04:40 PM   #3
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Thanks Feb. I will check that out..

It has been impossible to find a lake where we can build what we want without going to some agency or government for some kind of survey, inspections, permits and approval.

We would really like to have a waterfront home where we can park our floatplane but I think we may have to start looking outside of the US which is unfortunate.
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Old 11-24-2017, 05:10 PM   #4
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It would be a long shot to get a permit to build a concrete ramp into the water. However, thinking outside the box: you can get a permit to build a boathouse. So, if you build a boathouse big enough for the plane’s wingspan, then you can put a rotating lift inside the boathouse. See link below for an example. Sunstream had a dealer on Winni (Watermark Marine), so this concept might be something to consider. Good luck!

http://www.liftguy.ca/portfolio/plane-lifts/
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:17 PM   #5
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If you want a boathouse, I'm pretty sure you need to buy an existing one. Then you would need to get a permit to modify it, and the modifications could not expand the footprint. Various other issues apply too, such as making sure the boathouse you buy is legally grandfathered. All in all, a very complex and risky process, especially after you've dropped 7 figures to buy the property.
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
If you want a boathouse, I'm pretty sure you need to buy an existing one. Then you would need to get a permit to modify it, and the modifications could not expand the footprint. Various other issues apply too, such as making sure the boathouse you buy is legally grandfathered. All in all, a very complex and risky process, especially after you've dropped 7 figures to buy the property.
Not true at all. DES regularly issues permits for new boathouses. Only stipulation is that it cannot be constructed from the shoreline outward toward the lake. One must dig back from the shoreline toward the land side. Same as a perched beach. Hopefully “Shore Things” will chime in on this.

JC150: just a (worthless) piece of advice: if you are serious about this, do your own research on the shoreland regulations - don’t take what I or anyone else on this forum says as gospel. Forum member “Shore Things” is an incredible resource when it comes to these types of issues.

Also, another reference point: http://www.docksource.com/marine-con...thouses&pid=22
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:36 PM   #7
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I'm aware of a few people who have ramps of one sort or another, but not boat houses. Structures with in the first fifty feet of shore mare well regulated under Shoreland Water Quality Protection. Building a hangar is a little more problematic as there are also sideline setbacks that would apply to a building (local zoning). I can thinkl o at least one attorney who specializes in Zonong.RE law and also pilots an amphibian on Lake Winnipesaukee. You can also PM "Shore Things" at Environmental Services. Very Knowledgeable and very helpful. The goal of DES is not to prevcent things from happening, only to do them in non-harmful ways.
Many boating laws (e.g. speed limits) have special provisions for planes.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:02 PM   #8
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Initially I was trying to go with something like this:

http://www.technologysite.org/PixFlo...loatplanes.jpg

or

http://www.bifold.com/schweiss-doors...ulic-Door2.png

I was thinking about the boat house idea. I take it you're talking about something like this?

https://images.thestar.com/content/d...crop.0x650.jpg

We have a Cessna 206 Amphibian so I imagine we could get it to fit. This would open up lake options down south in the carolinas again but I'd be afraid of opening the door and finding water moccasins in there!

Seaplane Pilot, thanks for the advice. I need to do more research on shoreland regulations. I know everything from Maryland and south tends to be man-made and thus requires permission from the energy/power companies to build anything on the shore so I was hoping a natural lake would help me get around this but it sounds like I'm running into the same issue
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Old 11-25-2017, 03:29 AM   #9
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Exclamation Not Concrete, but Wood...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC150 View Post
I am looking for some lakefront property for my family along the east coast. Initially we were looking for something in TN, GA, VA, Carolinas, etc, but all of the lakes in the southeast seem to be man-made and require permits for everything including building a dock. We found out in order to do what we're looking for, we have to find a natural lake and nothing in the southeast meets our requirements. One of our requirements is we need to be able to build a concrete ramp for our float plane so we can taxi it from the water and onto land and be able to keep it inside a hangar next to the house. Would we be able to do something like this at Winnipesaukee? I realize there's an airport near the lake but we'd prefer to fly from our corporate hangar straight to a lake house. Thanks.
A number of Winnipesaukee considerations:

1) In order to build a new place within the old "footprint" you're going to need a sizeable shorefront. "McMansions" built in the 1980's on 100-foot-plus lots may be approaching "teardown" status.

2) The lot will need to be on a (rare) shallow slope, although you could use a winch to haul it sufficiently-distant from the water's edge.

3) A neighbor who had a ramp for his (non-amphibious) floatplane built one made of wood. Because it was pulled off the water's edge every winter, there were no known restrictions regarding its presence. Concrete would be a very difficult "sell". Even large granite "landscaping blocks" (including blocks that interlock), slide towards the lake.

4) Location for a ramp is important. Now that Lake Winnipesaukee's monohulls regularly exceed 24-feet in length, wake "combinations" can make Winnipesaukee's waters challenging for the boating sports and floatplanes. The three Winter Harbor "designated-runways" are only used by floatplanes during very quiet times. Timing is everything.

My above neighbor abandoned Lake Winnipesaukee, as there were times he had to push the floatplane "loose" off the ramp "to save it"!

Though looking forlorn, that ramp is still in place. Waiting for a new owner?


5) Although she checks-in regularly, check with DES' member "Shore Things" by private message during this Thanksgiving Weekend.

6) Alternately, and popular in Florida's "hanger-communities"—combined with a wooden ramp with sufficient depth and tall "garage" door—this suggested structure may be the answer:



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Old 11-25-2017, 07:13 AM   #10
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Default Amphib/Float plane.

The manufacturer of Lake Amphib had a ramp on existing property located on Shore Drive in Laconia. Its still there and the hanger now houses 4 cars and a workshop. I don't see the current owner selling soon as the house is very detailed and built by one of the original founders of NH Ball Bearings.

The house was built in the 60's and the hangar and ramp was added in the 70's. Long before wetlands enactments. You can ask Emerson Aviation if there are other existing properties with float plane pads. Back in the late 70's, early eighties there was a multitude of pads in the Lake Region.
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Old 11-25-2017, 07:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC150 View Post
Initially I was trying to go with something like this:

http://www.technologysite.org/PixFlo...loatplanes.jpg

or

http://www.bifold.com/schweiss-doors...ulic-Door2.png

I was thinking about the boat house idea. I take it you're talking about something like this?

https://images.thestar.com/content/d...crop.0x650.jpg

We have a Cessna 206 Amphibian so I imagine we could get it to fit. This would open up lake options down south in the carolinas again but I'd be afraid of opening the door and finding water moccasins in there!

Seaplane Pilot, thanks for the advice. I need to do more research on shoreland regulations. I know everything from Maryland and south tends to be man-made and thus requires permission from the energy/power companies to build anything on the shore so I was hoping a natural lake would help me get around this but it sounds like I'm running into the same issue
“Live Free or Die” doesn’t mean much anymore in NH. It’s now just Massachusetts north... so yes, you will run into plenty of red tape and bureaucratic nonsense when undertaking a project like this.
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:03 AM   #12
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My grandfather has the same concept at his house on Ossipee. He had a Laker and would drive it right up the concrete ramp park it in the yard. He never built a hanger for it. Keep in mind he built his house back in the 80's. I'm sure the regs we different back then but, there may be property like his out there.
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Bass View Post
My grandfather has the same concept at his house on Ossipee. He had a Laker and would drive it right up the concrete ramp park it in the yard. He never built a hanger for it. Keep in mind he built his house back in the 80's. I'm sure the regs we different back then but, there may be property like his out there.


I have seen concrete ramps going into garages from the lake and always wondered why they were there. Now I know.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:40 AM   #14
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Finding or building it all in one package is going to present some big obstacles.

Since your bird is an amfib, why not use Laconia Airport (KLCI)?

Leave a car there.

You can buy a nice waterfront home with a dock for your boat and have a short drive to go flying.

The boats on Winni kick up some serious wave action. Think “blender”.
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Old 11-25-2017, 10:22 AM   #15
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I know next to nothing about this topic on seaplanes, but it seems like the State of Maine www.naplesseaplaneadventures.com could be more user friendly than central New Hampshire.
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Old 11-25-2017, 10:03 PM   #16
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Check out Moultonboro airport 5M3, I believe you can land in the pond/ lake next to the airport and taxi onto the airport, or just land at the airport. The airport is a great resource, I met a pilot and the owner there Friday when I landed there for the first time. It's about 10 minutes to my home on the lake in Moultonboro. Also you may want to call the owner of the airport who is there most of the time. He may have some ideas for you. Best of luck.

Edit:
There are homes with ramps to the water that were probably put in before all the rules and regulations, some might be adequate for your plane, then obviously you would probably need to build what you need. As long as you don't insist on having the plane right next to the water you may be able to have a hanger with a ramp to the water. The other option would be a dock with a cover over it, which if you purchase a big enough lot should be doable.

Edit 2:

Check this one out, I see a ramp that just may work in the picture, you would have to build your hanger further back than your pictures, but I doubt you'd get something like that approved in NH anyway:

http://www.lakesregionhomes.com/Prop...TIAL&OfficeID=
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Old 11-27-2017, 02:53 PM   #17
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You are going to have an incredibly hard time on any lake in the US more then likely. Shoreline protection and conservation is a huge consideration if that fact.

There are properties around the lake where you might be able to drive a plan up into the front yard, and I have seen that done. But those properties are few and far between.

I know more then one pilot that flies or flew up to the lake. The consensus always was that it was easier and cheaper to fly into one of the airports.

If I was going to recommend a lake that you might have a real chance to get what you want, it would be lake Champlain..... There are lots of properties that would suite your needs.... now weather you could get a permit to build a hanger that is another issue... Look on Lake Champlain, in the towns of South Hero, North Hero, Grand Isle, and Alburg.... Also look up Northern Lights Airfield, the owner of the Airfield has a wife in Real Estate that might be able to help you out.
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Old 11-27-2017, 04:12 PM   #18
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Default Lake Champlain

Is also a lot friendlier place to boat and float plane.

Use to love going to the fly-ins at Moosehead in Maine. Very friendly up there!
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Old 11-28-2017, 12:53 AM   #19
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Thanks for all the input. I didn't realize how much regulation there would be over building a concrete ramp into the water.

I spoke to another seaplane owner that keeps his plane in the bahamas because he couldn't find any place on the east coast to do exactly what Im looking for. It's pretty frustrating that I'd have to leave the country to do something like that.

I will look more into the lakes in maine though. I think worst case scenario we just fly into the local airport and keep a car there.
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Old 11-28-2017, 07:04 AM   #20
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Question Wood Ramps Might Cause "Slip"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC150 View Post
Thanks for all the input. I didn't realize how much regulation there would be over building a concrete ramp into the water. I spoke to another seaplane owner that keeps his plane in the bahamas because he couldn't find any place on the east coast to do exactly what Im looking for. It's pretty frustrating that I'd have to leave the country to do something like that. I will look more into the lakes in maine though. I think worst case scenario we just fly into the local airport and keep a car there.
If the thought of a non-concrete ramp is a deciding point, perhaps consider a removable "expanded-metal" ramp.

The idea being its DES-mandated removal from Lake Winnipesaukee before "Ice-In".

"Metal Grating" example:



>
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Old 11-28-2017, 08:05 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC150 View Post
Thanks for all the input. I didn't realize how much regulation there would be over building a concrete ramp into the water.

I spoke to another seaplane owner that keeps his plane in the bahamas because he couldn't find any place on the east coast to do exactly what Im looking for. It's pretty frustrating that I'd have to leave the country to do something like that.

I will look more into the lakes in maine though. I think worst case scenario we just fly into the local airport and keep a car there.
Is there any reason you need to take it out of the water?? If you find the right piece of real estate that has some protection from the bigger waves why not leave it in the water??

There is someone on Steamboat Island that does just that. Somehow he moors his plane just off shore and obviously ties it down well but he fly's in and out of his home there. As an fyi, Steamboat island isn't the most protected island on the lake, actually far from it, but he does not seem to have a problem.

Just a thought...

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Old 11-28-2017, 09:05 AM   #22
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About 30 years ago there was a row of pavers from the water up to the front lawn at a home on the southwest corner of Locke's Island. I saw the airplane parked on the front lawn very often. The pavers, and the airplane, have been gone for many years.

Laconia airport is so close to the lake in Gilford or Laconia it would seem like an easy choice to just leave it at the airport and purchase a waterfront home in either of these two towns. No other lake that I am aware of matches the quality of water, scenery, and beauty of Lake Winnipesaukee. It is certainly worth the ten minute drive from the airport to your home.

It would also be a lot easier to land at an airport, especially when the wind and waves kick up on Winnipesaukee. The logistics of loading passengers and guests would be a lot easier on pavement than it is on water.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:27 AM   #23
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Default Float Pland Ramp & Hanger

I don't know if you could put in a ramp or not, but several people fly in and out of Crescent Lake and Lake Wentworth. There is a whole lot of less traffic and the wave action is rarely a problem. Finding a place to buy might be a problem however.
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:23 PM   #24
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Maybe get a helicopter?
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:51 AM   #25
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Default Seaplane Ramps and Hangars

I sent you a direct message that might help.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:14 PM   #26
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There's a lot of speculation on thos thread about what is allowed and not allowed. My dealings with DES generally show that they want to help, within limits, but they are site specific. What works here may not work there. There are places around that have multi-stall boat houses already in place. A 2-3 stall boathouse might have room for a 40 ft wingspan. You could build up, maybe not out, and put the plane in a boathouse, no ramp. Should be no problem to install a lift if you want to get out of the water, same as a boat.
In most places, it is easier to put up (i.e. permit) an awning than a full structure. Keep the plane under an awning in tew summer and fly out in the winter and take down the awning. Finding a site that is "flyable" (prevailing winds, exposure to long open water, etc) might be a bigger question than building suitable summer storage for the plane.
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