Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Winnipesaukee Forums > Home, Cottage or Land Maintenance
Home Forums Gallery Blogs YouTube Channel Classifieds Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-28-2021, 09:08 AM   #1
Sue Doe-Nym
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,174
Thanks: 615
Thanked 634 Times in 319 Posts
Default Portable generator

I am looking for some guidance on a portable generator for a family member. We were able to locate one that seems promising: Generac 6500 watts with good rating. Weighs 200# and has pull starter. Any opinions plus or minus or suggestions would be appreciated.
Sue Doe-Nym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 09:15 AM   #2
TheProfessor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 796
Thanks: 16
Thanked 235 Times in 146 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym View Post
I am looking for some guidance on a portable generator for a family member. We were able to locate one that seems promising: Generac 6500 watts with good rating. Weighs 200# and has pull starter. Any opinions plus or minus or suggestions would be appreciated.
At least, get the Generac with electric start.
TheProfessor is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TheProfessor For This Useful Post:
Reilly (10-31-2021), Sue Doe-Nym (10-28-2021)
Old 10-28-2021, 09:27 AM   #3
VitaBene
Senior Member
 
VitaBene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 3,432
Thanks: 1,500
Thanked 1,569 Times in 795 Posts
Default Honda

I highly recommend Hondas. We have 2 EU2200 (2200 watts) that can be connected together to give us 4400 watts. Super quiet and not thirsty!

Go to Aubachon in Moultonborough and check their stock out- they carry the full line.
VitaBene is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to VitaBene For This Useful Post:
Sue Doe-Nym (10-28-2021)
Old 10-28-2021, 10:34 AM   #4
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,746
Thanks: 1,086
Thanked 1,532 Times in 924 Posts
Default

Price no object: Honda.
Price is an object: Generac.

Either way, electric start is dope.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
thinkxingu is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to thinkxingu For This Useful Post:
Sue Doe-Nym (10-28-2021)
Old 10-28-2021, 11:35 AM   #5
DEJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 497
Thanks: 424
Thanked 274 Times in 137 Posts
Default

Electric start for sure. I have a Generac 8K and in the cold weather it is very difficult to pull start. I even went to a thinner viscosity oil and that did not help.
DEJ is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DEJ For This Useful Post:
Sue Doe-Nym (10-28-2021)
Sponsored Links
Old 10-28-2021, 02:08 PM   #6
camp guy
Senior Member
 
camp guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: formerly Winter Harbor, still Wolfeboro
Posts: 989
Thanks: 240
Thanked 375 Times in 230 Posts
Default Portable generator

Personally, I have a Generac 16 Kw, and have had no problems. Definitely, electric start, and the automatic transfer switch (that may be required). In my opinion, if the generator will support it, put the whole house on the system.
camp guy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to camp guy For This Useful Post:
Sue Doe-Nym (10-28-2021)
Old 10-28-2021, 02:28 PM   #7
codeman671
Senior Member
 
codeman671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,869
Thanks: 143
Thanked 541 Times in 329 Posts
Default

There are some good options for portables out there that are dual-fuel, they allow the use of gas or propane. Anything with a Honda engine is always a good choice. Get electric start. They don't always pull over easy in the dead of winter.

I have a Duromax dual fuel and it works fine. My house has an installed generator so we moved this one up to the island for emergency use. I also have a 5kw Troy-Bilt that came with a previous home we bought. Pull start, no thrills but as long as I run it dry whenever I use it, it always starts right up when needed.
codeman671 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to codeman671 For This Useful Post:
Sue Doe-Nym (10-28-2021)
Old 10-28-2021, 05:01 PM   #8
8gv
Senior Member
 
8gv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,718
Thanks: 54
Thanked 596 Times in 384 Posts
Default

I suggest researching…

Inverter vs generator
Inverter might be preferred for cleaner power because everything has a computer in it these days.

Panel interface options
I can use any circuits I want as long as they don’t add up to exceed my machine’s capacity. That’s done with a panel interlock.

Gas or propane
Gas units need to be run occasionally and the gas replaced with fresh.

Mine works great!

There have been zero power failures since I bought it!
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 8gv For This Useful Post:
Sue Doe-Nym (10-28-2021)
Old 10-28-2021, 08:13 PM   #9
mswlogo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 548
Thanks: 177
Thanked 203 Times in 128 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
I suggest researching…

Inverter vs generator
Inverter might be preferred for cleaner power because everything has a computer in it these days.

Panel interface options
I can use any circuits I want as long as they don’t add up to exceed my machine’s capacity. That’s done with a panel interlock.

Gas or propane
Gas units need to be run occasionally and the gas replaced with fresh.

Mine works great!

There have been zero power failures since I bought it!
Ditto on researching.

The Generac portable generators are junk. I had one and could not believe how fast components just disingrated (hoses just rotted away in 5 years). I have motors that are 30 years old that were in better shape.

Like many things today, 90% of the generators are the exact same POS made out of the same factory in China. China does make some good stuff but it's had to know what is good quality.

The Dual Fuel ones are great. They produce slightly less power on Propane but Propane can sit for a decade and be fine. I rotate 2 tanks with the BBQ.

They burn cleaner and are quieter too.

There are propane conversion kits for some Gas ones, but I prefer the Dual Fuel. You might get stuck with not being able to get one of the fuels in an extended power outage.

Also consider if you need 240V to run a Well Pump. Typically available on the larger ones.

Do you really need 6500 Watt? That's pretty big. You don't need to run the whole house. If you have Gas or Oil Furnace doesn't take all that much. Nor does a Fridge.
I got away with a 3500 Watt no problem (no Well Pump), gas heat, gas hot water, gas stove.

As pointed out the Inverter Type are MUCH better. My POS Generac was the non inverter type. They have to run at fairly high RPM to get the voltage close. Regardless of load. The inverters will vary speed, noise and fuel consumption based on load. And they will stay at the correct voltage. Honda made the inverter ones famous. Unfortunely Honda doesn't make a Dual fuel or Propane one. But there are converter kits.

99% of the Inverter ones can't do 240V. I found just one and it's 10,000 Watts and $2500.00. I'm hoping Champion comes out with a smaller one.

Too much weight can be a problem too.

I also agree to seriously consider electric start. Unless it's a really small unit. 6500 watt is pretty big. Note that many electric starts need to have the battery manually charged, PITA.

Another thing to consider is many of the Inverter type can be paired. Two small units can put out the same power as one large one and much easier to haul around.

I got this one for MA, no longer available, but they have others similar. You'll see this one recommended on many web sites.

Dual Fuel, Inverter, Not 240V, Electric Start, Can be Paired

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FAWMMEY

This is the one I want for NH (which has a Well), but not so damn big and heavy.
Worried it has the same crappy Chinese motors that Generacs do.

Dual Fuel, Inverter, 240V, Electric Start, Can be Paired (only 240V, Inverter, Dual Fuel I could find).

https://www.duromaxpower.com/products/xp9000ih

Briggs and Stratton makes some smaller Inverter ones (copy of the small Honda ones). I'd trust their motors more than most, except for Honda.

Honda is by far one of the best, but they are 2-3x more expensive for the same features and they don't make a 240V Inverter nor have a dual fuel. If they did, I'd probably get a Honda. It would probably be $5000 for 5000 watts if they did.
mswlogo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mswlogo For This Useful Post:
Sue Doe-Nym (10-28-2021)
Old 10-28-2021, 08:29 PM   #10
WinnisquamZ
Senior Member
 
WinnisquamZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,271
Thanks: 143
Thanked 438 Times in 286 Posts
Default

You wrote it, damn. Now we will be firing up these generators at least twice this season.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
WinnisquamZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 08:50 PM   #11
Sue Doe-Nym
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,174
Thanks: 615
Thanked 634 Times in 319 Posts
Default Gathering all the facts……

Many thanks for all the comments so far…..very much appreciated! I hope more of you chime in with your comments. It’s very important for us to get just the right generator for our relative who was recently widowed. The power outage in MA is now behind them, but something relatively easy to manage once it’s installed is exactly what we need for her. We’ll start doing more homework on the internet right now. Thank you for sharing your expertise.
Sue Doe-Nym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 08:57 PM   #12
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,746
Thanks: 1,086
Thanked 1,532 Times in 924 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym View Post
Many thanks for all the comments so far…..very much appreciated! I hope more of you chime in with your comments. It’s very important for us to get just the right generator for our relative who was recently widowed. The power outage in MA is now behind them, but something relatively easy to manage once it’s installed is exactly what we need for her. We’ll start doing more homework on the internet right now. Thank you for sharing your expertise.
Just a note that if at all possible, I would get a standby generator. Unless the person's (fairly) technically savvy, running through the steps to shut down the main breaker, engage the mechanical interlock, connect and start the generator, flip the appropriate circuits on or off, etc. and in reverse when done can be daunting.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
thinkxingu is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to thinkxingu For This Useful Post:
tummyman (10-29-2021)
Old 10-28-2021, 10:10 PM   #13
8gv
Senior Member
 
8gv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,718
Thanks: 54
Thanked 596 Times in 384 Posts
Default

If you are going with a portable in the 6500w size consider that it must be moved from where it is stored to where it will be used.

My friend has one that is quite heavy. It has an horizontal extending handle and wheels. The trouble is that the wheels are on the far end and the handle is on the near end. When you tilt it up you are bearing much of the weight.

Mine, also quite heavy, has an extending handle but it extends vertically and it is positioned directly over the wheels. This makes tilting and moving it similar to using a hand truck so it's easier on the back.

BTW... his is electric start but the battery died ten years ago so he uses the pull start. My machine has no electric start. My wife is 5' 1-1/2" tall and she can start it.
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 11:22 PM   #14
mswlogo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 548
Thanks: 177
Thanked 203 Times in 128 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkxingu View Post
Just a note that if at all possible, I would get a standby generator. Unless the person's (fairly) technically savvy, running through the steps to shut down the main breaker, engage the mechanical interlock, connect and start the generator, flip the appropriate circuits on or off, etc. and in reverse when done can be daunting.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Totally agree.

You also have to worry about fumes with portable units.

That can get expensive though.

You might consider a vented propane heater (not to expensive) and a small inverter generator (e.g ~2000 watts) to plug the fridge in directly. That would be more manageable both weight and technicalities.

Like this inverter generator. The 6500 watt Generac OP is looking at probably cost similar.

https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Powe.../dp/B08L45W2V9

There are cheaper heaters. I don’t think this needs power to run.

https://www.amazon.com/Martin-Direct.../dp/B072Q5NBNZ

For an installed standby generator you might be talking $6000 or more installed.
mswlogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2021, 08:18 AM   #15
Kamper
Senior Member
 
Kamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Thornton's Ferry
Posts: 1,287
Thanks: 67
Thanked 162 Times in 122 Posts
Default

I have a Chicago with electric start from Harbor freight. I was told to yank a wire before my 2 year warranty was up and replace it with their (then) upcoming line, Predator. I forgot to do that and after 6 years the Electric Start doesn't work. It's an 8500w and the pull is a little stiff but I can get it going pretty quick with a shot of starting fluid.

I am thinking I'll replace it anyway in case the wife has to fire it up. It's a "portable" model but it's in a detached shed close to the house and we have CO monitors in the rooms on that side.
Kamper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2021, 08:36 AM   #16
WinnisquamZ
Senior Member
 
WinnisquamZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,271
Thanks: 143
Thanked 438 Times in 286 Posts
Default

Has anyone looked into a solar generator or wall?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
WinnisquamZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2021, 04:08 PM   #17
Sue Doe-Nym
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,174
Thanks: 615
Thanked 634 Times in 319 Posts
Default DuraMax

Anyone familiar with DuraMax XP 5500 dual fuel , electric start, 2 120volt and 1 240 volt portable generator?
Sue Doe-Nym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2021, 07:20 PM   #18
marinewife
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: the quiet side of the lake
Posts: 80
Thanks: 51
Thanked 45 Times in 22 Posts
Default

After going without power for 6 days during Hurricane Sandy in 2012, I bought my husband a portable generator.

After checking endless reviews, I called a generator repair shop to ask the owner which brand had the least trouble- the owner said, and I quote, " I have around 100 generators to repair in the yard, and 98 are Generac- only 2 are Briggs and Stratton."

I went with Briggs and we used it infrequently with no troubles until last year, when we made the decision to go with a Kohler whole house generator from Generator Connection. Good luck with making a decision, it's tricky even in the best of times.
marinewife is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to marinewife For This Useful Post:
Sue Doe-Nym (10-30-2021)
Old 10-30-2021, 08:57 PM   #19
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 678
Thanks: 0
Thanked 151 Times in 131 Posts
Default

Over the years selling them, we have seen some major problems with the portables.

People don't connect them correctly and leave an open circuit, so when the line is powered up from the other end the wave doesn't sync and the generator gets fried - the motor runs, but no electricity flows.

The second item is simply lack of maintenance.
Saw one run for over three days straight with just the break-in oil, saw others that ran a week without an oil change - they don't realize that running them 24 hours is going to mean an oil change rather rapidly.

The last is not checking them before the season starts, realizing that it has old gas and carb varnish while you are in the middle of the dark and working with a flashlight - or worse - no flashlight because they were unprepared.

I even had one couple show up during Sandy in a classic '67 Mustang. They had escaped to NH, but on their return to Connecticut decided they better grab a generator because the stores would be out down there.
To get it in the Mustang, the wife had to sit in the back with the other supplies. He had may take out the passenger seat, wrap it in plastic to protect it, and place the generator on the passenger floor.

I did as told. But wondered when they got back to Connecticut if any gasoline or oil for an oil change would be available.

Last edited by John Mercier; 10-30-2021 at 09:39 PM.
John Mercier is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2021, 11:42 PM   #20
mswlogo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 548
Thanks: 177
Thanked 203 Times in 128 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym View Post
Anyone familiar with DuraMax XP 5500 dual fuel , electric start, 2 120volt and 1 240 volt portable generator?
I think that is a much better choice than the Generac you had in mind.

But keep in mind to properly hook it up you'll probably have to spend between $500-$1000 to set the house up to be fed by the generator safely.

You need something like this installed

http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Prod...il.aspx?30216A

This explains why

http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Support.aspx?whatWhy
mswlogo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mswlogo For This Useful Post:
Sue Doe-Nym (10-31-2021)
Old 10-31-2021, 11:38 AM   #21
NH.Solar
Senior Member
 
NH.Solar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Jackson Pond, New Hampton
Posts: 157
Thanks: 30
Thanked 87 Times in 47 Posts
Default

I's suggest considering a Honda EU of 5000 watts or greater and having an electrician install a slide lockout plate in the main electrical panel. The slide lockout either the generator circuit or the utility input to be activated, but never both at the same time. Either way the house will have all of the circuits live and available, although some discretion in usage will need to be exercised when on the generator ...especially if the house has a well pump and/or heat pumps.
The new Hondas can be started remotely wirelessly, so all that would be needed to be done when the grid goes out is to flip the fool proof lockout breakers over and start your Honda from your phone.
A second alternative is to consider the purchase of one of the new bi-directional EVs that are coming out. Ford was the first to announce this with their existing F150 hybrid and the coming Lightning pure EV. VW has also announced that the second wave of their ID4 will be bi-directional. The rest of the EV manufacturers will no doubt soon follow.
And third, consider installing solar with a battery backup. We use the SolarEdge Energyhub system but there are a ton of really good alternatives available. Use the one that your favored local installer recommends. By going this route you gain the security of instantaneous fully automatic backup when the grid goes down, the security of knowing that you will have a generally reliable power source (the sun) when fuel may not be available due to either a severe weather event or grid hacking, a constant reduction in your monthly utility expense, and the long term financial benefits from the ITC and asset value of the solar array and backup system.
The quickest and easiest system for your relative is the Honda with a slide lockout and with minimal maintenance it should serve their purpose well for years to come
__________________
Peter
NH Solar
NH.Solar is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NH.Solar For This Useful Post:
Sue Doe-Nym (10-31-2021)
Old 10-31-2021, 08:35 PM   #22
mswlogo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 548
Thanks: 177
Thanked 203 Times in 128 Posts
Default

You cannot depend on the Sun for backup, especially in the Winter when you are most likely to have a power failure and when you need the back up the most.

Looking at December. Notice how there was a whole week of no production.
Why was there no production for a week? Probably because the Solar panels were covered in Ice. The same Ice that knocks power out.

The Red is consumption. Green is Production



The Sun drastically reduces in Winter. Check out December and January.
This was a very light Winter too.



Batteries are great for short to modest power outages. They are instant. And might last you 1-2 days. And the chances of you charging them back up from a Snow or Ice storm that knocked power out is fairly low. Even if the sun is out and panels clear they will charge very slowly in winter.

You're talking about $30K for Solar + Batteries (depending on size) and it still might not cover you for an extended power outage. Which is rare, but happens.

A full standby generator would run indefinitely, be much cheaper and just as convenient. Assuming you have or can get fuel for it.

I love Solar, I have solar. I love the Battery concept too. But batteries for backup just don't make financial sense. Batteries are great if you are on Off Peak Metering. Batteries are a luxury if you have money to burn. And let them cover short to medium power outages. But for power security you still need a generator unfortunately. If you don't want or need 100% power security and can afford the Battery setup. Go for it. Batteries would also be great if you had lot's of short power outages.

On average people use about 20 kWh a day. One Tesla Powerwall (about $8000.00 installed) can supply about 12.2 Kwh. That's why most installations install at least two Power Walls.
Other battery backup systems might be much cheaper. But using HALF a normal load (say 10 kWh a day) you could go ~2 days on $16K worth of batteries.
mswlogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2021, 09:38 AM   #23
Paugus Bay Resident
Senior Member
 
Paugus Bay Resident's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Gilmanton, NH
Posts: 755
Thanks: 137
Thanked 92 Times in 51 Posts
Default

I have DuroMax that I got from Northern Tool - recommended by a friend who is an electrician. 10KW surge, electric start. Used in multiple times in the past few years, winter and summer. Starts right up, good on fuel. No complaints.
Paugus Bay Resident is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Paugus Bay Resident For This Useful Post:
Sue Doe-Nym (11-01-2021), trfour (11-02-2021)
Old 11-03-2021, 01:26 PM   #24
bigdog
Senior Member
 
bigdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central MA-Gilford
Posts: 1,213
Thanks: 208
Thanked 89 Times in 73 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident View Post
I have DuroMax that I got from Northern Tool - recommended by a friend who is an electrician. 10KW surge, electric start. Used in multiple times in the past few years, winter and summer. Starts right up, good on fuel. No complaints.
Just a FYI, I asked a local repair shop in Laconia, for his opinion for a portable generator, and he also said 'DuroMax'. He also recommended a name not mentioned in this original Post, that being 'Westinghouse' !
bigdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2021, 08:05 AM   #25
Fjr05
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Alton Bay,NH
Posts: 6
Thanks: 21
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Honda Inverter Generator Gas 389cc 7000W with CO Minder Item No.EU7000ISNAN

Honda Inverter Generator Gas 389cc 7000W with CO Minder
Item No.EU7000ISNAN.You'll never regret it.
Fjr05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2021, 09:08 AM   #26
codeman671
Senior Member
 
codeman671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,869
Thanks: 143
Thanked 541 Times in 329 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjr05 View Post
Honda Inverter Generator Gas 389cc 7000W with CO Minder
Item No.EU7000ISNAN.You'll never regret it.
Its a very nice generator, but at $4600-5k for a portable you can do an installed system for similar money.
codeman671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2021, 09:26 AM   #27
Sue Doe-Nym
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,174
Thanks: 615
Thanked 634 Times in 319 Posts
Default Jury’s out

The electrician who will be doing the wiring for this project recommends the Honda as superb, and is checking out the DuraMax and Westinghouse models we are considering. Electric start a must, but he’s not a fan of the propane canisters as they “freeze up”. Generac portables not the best choice. My comments are just FYI.
Sue Doe-Nym is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sue Doe-Nym For This Useful Post:
trfour (11-04-2021)
Old 11-04-2021, 09:40 AM   #28
codeman671
Senior Member
 
codeman671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,869
Thanks: 143
Thanked 541 Times in 329 Posts
Default

Deal of the day!

www.factoryauthorizedoutlet.com

Duromax XP11500EH 11.5kw dual fuel in stock at $1299, and there is a $300 off promo code today!

I am tempted to buy another at that price.
codeman671 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to codeman671 For This Useful Post:
Sue Doe-Nym (11-04-2021)
Old 11-04-2021, 04:02 PM   #29
VitaBene
Senior Member
 
VitaBene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 3,432
Thanks: 1,500
Thanked 1,569 Times in 795 Posts
Default Westinghouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym View Post
The electrician who will be doing the wiring for this project recommends the Honda as superb, and is checking out the DuraMax and Westinghouse models we are considering. Electric start a must, but he’s not a fan of the propane canisters as they “freeze up”. Generac portables not the best choice. My comments are just FYI.
Keep in mind that Westinghouse has not really made a consumer product for many years. The circle bar W logo is owned by Viacom who allows manufacturers (mostly Chinese) to slap it on their products for a fee. Some may be good...

We consult for Westinghouse Electric Company LLC, the nuclear business currently owned by Brookfield. They too, have to pay Viacom to use the circle bar W! https://www.westinghousenuclear.com/
VitaBene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2021, 04:02 PM   #30
Sue Doe-Nym
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,174
Thanks: 615
Thanked 634 Times in 319 Posts
Default Portable vs standby Generac units

In post #27, I referred to an opinion by an electrician that a Generac portable is not the best choice. I received a message from a forum member that he is very pleased with his standby Generac unit. I was not comparing the two. We have a Generac, installed in 2016, and have been pleased so far with its performance. The portable is another issue.
Sue Doe-Nym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2021, 03:15 AM   #31
mswlogo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 548
Thanks: 177
Thanked 203 Times in 128 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym View Post
In post #27, I referred to an opinion by an electrician that a Generac portable is not the best choice. I received a message from a forum member that he is very pleased with his standby Generac unit. I was not comparing the two. We have a Generac, installed in 2016, and have been pleased so far with its performance. The portable is another issue.
The standby Generacs are a completely different beast.

You have to understand how things are today.

China makes a lot of stuff. Some of it is crap, some ok, some excellent.

Besides Honda, China makes 90% of the portable generators. Which are not the best. A company like Generac, has no portable generator, They don’t make them.
So they find one to OEM and slap their reputable label on it.
Might even be a seperate company licensing the name.

That’s what the Westing House is too. Probably another company licensing the name and getting the same product from China.

When you work on stuff you see patterns. You go to buy a part and you find it’s the same part for Generac, DuraMax, Westing House and a dozen more.

Lots of stuff is like this. Lawn mowers, same thing. John Deere lawn mower you see in Home Depot is NOT a John Deere. It’s exactly the same as the Yard Man, husqvarna etc. If it was a John Deere it would cost 3x as much. To compete the buy the OEM one from China and slap their name on it. It’s not a bad unit though. I have one and you start to see patterns when you work on them. Only difference is the color and decals.

So asking which brand portable is kind of a joke. It’s either Honda, China or a Standby.

Regarding propane freezing. Propane freezes at -306F !!! Most Standby generators run on Natural Gas or Propane. The problem is moisture in your tank. Which can also happen to gasoline generators. Keep tanks full. Keep you boat tank full too (not because of freezing but because water in your fuel is bad). Cars don’t have this problem any more. See frost on say a table on your deck? That happens on the inside walls of the tanks. Humid air condenses on the cold walls. When it gets warm it melts and drips into the fuel. Night after night as temps go above and below dew point. This happens inside engines too and water gets in your oil. But it burns off if driven regularly.

https://bepreparedforit.com/do-propa...-cold-weather/

A large stand by system might have a mild heater on the regulator (a narrow point) to prevent fuel freezing and flowing.

You are more likely to have fuel issues with a portable gasoline unit in my opinion.
mswlogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2021, 02:06 PM   #32
DickR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 646
Thanks: 4
Thanked 212 Times in 134 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
...

Regarding propane freezing. Propane freezes at -306F !!! Most Standby generators run on Natural Gas or Propane. The problem is moisture in your tank. Which can also happen to gasoline generators. Keep tanks full....
Presumably that advice about keeping tanks full to avoid condensation inside pertains to gasoline tanks and is not meant for propane tanks. That won't happen with a propane tank. The pressure inside follows the vapor pressure curve for propane, and the top 20% or more of the tank volume is occupied by propane gas, with propane liquid below that. As the tank warms during the day, the liquid propane in the tank absorbs heat from ambient air through the tank wall, and the internal pressure rises. As the tank cools at night or after a cold front passes, condensation will occur inside and pressure drops, although this occurs slowly. But this is propane vapor condensing back to liquid. At some low temperature, well below zero, tank pressure is insufficient to deliver propane vapor to the appliance.

When the appliance uses propane as fuel, the tank pressure drops a bit, some propane boils off to maintain pressure, thus cooling the liquid accordingly, followed by absorption of heat from ambient air through the tank wall.

Since the tank is essentially always at pressure substantially above atmospheric, there is never any introduction of water vapor from the air. If there were any moisture present in the propane, its partial pressure would be way below that needed to cause condensation to liquid water droplets at any realistic temperature. Any water vapor present above the liquid would be flushed out quickly as the appliance uses the fuel.
DickR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2021, 05:36 PM   #33
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 678
Thanks: 0
Thanked 151 Times in 131 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
The standby Generacs are a completely different beast.

You have to understand how things are today.

China makes a lot of stuff. Some of it is crap, some ok, some excellent.

Besides Honda, China makes 90% of the portable generators. Which are not the best. A company like Generac, has no portable generator, They don’t make them.
So they find one to OEM and slap their reputable label on it.
Might even be a seperate company licensing the name.

That’s what the Westing House is too. Probably another company licensing the name and getting the same product from China.

When you work on stuff you see patterns. You go to buy a part and you find it’s the same part for Generac, DuraMax, Westing House and a dozen more.

Lots of stuff is like this. Lawn mowers, same thing. John Deere lawn mower you see in Home Depot is NOT a John Deere. It’s exactly the same as the Yard Man, husqvarna etc. If it was a John Deere it would cost 3x as much. To compete the buy the OEM one from China and slap their name on it. It’s not a bad unit though. I have one and you start to see patterns when you work on them. Only difference is the color and decals.

So asking which brand portable is kind of a joke. It’s either Honda, China or a Standby.

Regarding propane freezing. Propane freezes at -306F !!! Most Standby generators run on Natural Gas or Propane. The problem is moisture in your tank. Which can also happen to gasoline generators. Keep tanks full. Keep you boat tank full too (not because of freezing but because water in your fuel is bad). Cars don’t have this problem any more. See frost on say a table on your deck? That happens on the inside walls of the tanks. Humid air condenses on the cold walls. When it gets warm it melts and drips into the fuel. Night after night as temps go above and below dew point. This happens inside engines too and water gets in your oil. But it burns off if driven regularly.

https://bepreparedforit.com/do-propa...-cold-weather/

A large stand by system might have a mild heater on the regulator (a narrow point) to prevent fuel freezing and flowing.

You are more likely to have fuel issues with a portable gasoline unit in my opinion.
Actually the John Deere at Home Depot is a John Deere.
John Deere sets the prices and Home Depot cannot discount them or JD products in any way.
The mowers come in steel crates that cannot be opened by any employee of Home Depot and must be set out for the service technicians from the partnered dealership to come and do the initial multi-point quality inspection and enter the warranty designation before the machine can be purchased.
The ones in the store are the lowest series, and the ones sold online are through the White Glove Ambassador system set up with John Deere.

I used to work for HD and had to set out the crates over night so the when the technicians came in from, they would be ready.

We also use the White Glove Ambassador program for the Ariens and MTD product sold online, I did most of that locally with Belmont Hardware.
John Mercier is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2021, 10:47 PM   #34
mswlogo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 548
Thanks: 177
Thanked 203 Times in 128 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DickR View Post
Presumably that advice about keeping tanks full to avoid condensation inside pertains to gasoline tanks and is not meant for propane tanks. That won't happen with a propane tank. The pressure inside follows the vapor pressure curve for propane, and the top 20% or more of the tank volume is occupied by propane gas, with propane liquid below that. As the tank warms during the day, the liquid propane in the tank absorbs heat from ambient air through the tank wall, and the internal pressure rises. As the tank cools at night or after a cold front passes, condensation will occur inside and pressure drops, although this occurs slowly. But this is propane vapor condensing back to liquid. At some low temperature, well below zero, tank pressure is insufficient to deliver propane vapor to the appliance.

When the appliance uses propane as fuel, the tank pressure drops a bit, some propane boils off to maintain pressure, thus cooling the liquid accordingly, followed by absorption of heat from ambient air through the tank wall.

Since the tank is essentially always at pressure substantially above atmospheric, there is never any introduction of water vapor from the air. If there were any moisture present in the propane, its partial pressure would be way below that needed to cause condensation to liquid water droplets at any realistic temperature. Any water vapor present above the liquid would be flushed out quickly as the appliance uses the fuel.
Good info. So how do they freeze. I did look it up and it seems it can happen.
mswlogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2021, 10:28 AM   #35
DickR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 646
Thanks: 4
Thanked 212 Times in 134 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
Good info. So how do they freeze. I did look it up and it seems it can happen.
On looking further, it does seem that there is some disinformation out there, or perhaps just poor explanations. First, the propane itself will not freeze until its temperature gets to around -306 F. The actual freezing point will vary a little, because the "propane" delivered isn't pure propane, but has small amounts of lighter gases, including ethane, and heavier gases, such as butane.

That reference (https://bepreparedforit.com/do-propa...-cold-weather/) that refers to propane freezing at -44 F is a good example if misuse of words, in this case "freezing." That -44 F is the approximate temperature of propane fuel at which the pressure it exerts within the tank is one standard atmosphere (14.696 psi). At that pressure, propane from the vapor space above the liquid can't flow out to the generator, since there is no pressure difference to cause flow. Actually, flow will cease a bit before the tank gets that cold, because the gas line and pressure regulator both induce pressure drop.

In certain atmospheric conditions, icing can occur at the carburetor. On my Kohler 14KW standby, I installed their carburetor heater kit to prevent this. It runs off AC power from the house and activates when the temperature goes below 32 F. Other cold weather protection can be installed, such as a battery warmer or crankcase oil heater. I opted for the carburetor heater, figuring that cars left outside overnight in subzero weather usually start readily the next morning. In the 4-5 years I've had the generator, it's never failed to start when needed or for the weekly self-test.
DickR is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DickR For This Useful Post:
VitaBene (11-07-2021)
Old 11-09-2021, 10:17 PM   #36
bigdog
Senior Member
 
bigdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central MA-Gilford
Posts: 1,213
Thanks: 208
Thanked 89 Times in 73 Posts
Default Ethanol Free Gas ?

I want to run my generator with 'Ethanol Free Gas', where can I buy around Laconia/Gilford side of the lake ?
bigdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2021, 07:46 AM   #37
8gv
Senior Member
 
8gv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,718
Thanks: 54
Thanked 596 Times in 384 Posts
Default

Call Irwin Marine. They may sell it at their docks.
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2021, 09:19 AM   #38
upthesaukee
Senior Member
 
upthesaukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 5,312
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 2,068
Thanked 1,764 Times in 981 Posts
Default From previous posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog View Post
I want to run my generator with 'Ethanol Free Gas', where can I buy around Laconia/Gilford side of the lake ?
From previous posts on buying ethanol free gas, I believe the closest is in Ossipee.

Dave
__________________
I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!
upthesaukee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2021, 09:25 AM   #39
winni83
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Moultonborough, NH
Posts: 328
Thanks: 16
Thanked 150 Times in 99 Posts
Default

The gas operation at 603 Market Place in Moultonborough (used to be Fuller's) sells non ethanol gas. It is located at 268 Whittier Highway.
winni83 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to winni83 For This Useful Post:
bigdog (11-10-2021)
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.82076 seconds