Ice Dive Training before ice-in 2012/2013

oldflounder · 06-26-2012, 08:22 AM

I will be proposing this again as the season gets nearer but I just want to put the suggestion out there and see if there is any response. I wanted to take the ice diving course last year but as you know Mother Nature was kind to us and we had an easy winter.

From my observation and limited experience with ice diving conditions and the classes - I don't think much hands on training gets done during the 3 or 4 days of class. At the end of classroom training many jump in the water for the first time in 2 months, with oftentimes a rented drysuit and a summer mask. You go down into a 6' hole with an insta-buddy, swim out 25' under the ice and get reeled back in. Then the next day you go in again for a few minutes and practice search/rescue drills.

This is fine and I have no problem with it. You pay your $175 and you learn the basics of ice diving. But you are not that comfortable with it and it may be the only ice diving you ever do. Many of us just want the card for the prestige.

Wouldn't the class be much more rewarding if you could practice the skills beforehand in comfort - in a 3mm wetsuit or even a bathing suit - in 66 degree water - standing on the deck of a boat feeding out the line to the divers [who are actually enjoying the experience and not half terrified, expecting a freeflow at any second].

I want to practice the skills this fall/early winter at Wolfeboro and Ctr. Harbor Town Docks. I'm not looking for buddies yet, but I will be as summer wears on and I get some extra free time on my hands and can get away from the ocean.

Stay tuned --- this thread will be continued in the months ahead.......Joe

oldflounder · 07-09-2012, 09:38 AM

I am looking for an item to use this winter for tender/diver communication practicing. My plan [after boat season ends] is to have the tender stand on the Wolfeboro or Ctr. Harbr. town dock and feed the line(s) to the diver(s) through an artificial ice hole to simulate the rope against the hole and the problems that causes in communication. I need something that can be anchored down and will float on the surface. A 4 sided styrofoam float about 6'x6'. Any ideas --- maybe a dock part or a large water toy gadget --- maybe a beefed up hula hoop!

oldflounder · 07-11-2012, 09:10 AM

To answer my own question --- I think a large truck or tractor inner tube attached to a dock post would give a realistic feel of the line rubbing against the side of the ice hole. I am almost looking forward to this winter -almost but not quite!

oldflounder · 08-07-2012, 12:07 PM

I am starting to give this more consideration and at this point I am interested in getting together a contact list of people that may be interested in practicing ice diving skills before the season gets here - rather that be as a diver or as a tender. I am looking for both certified and those that wish to get certified.

I am not an instructor, I am not ice certified yet and I have no affiliation doing this through any dive shop at the present time. It is just a get together of like minded people that want to pursue ice diving this upcoming winter in one way or another.

If you think you may have an interest and want to be on the contact list send me a private message...................Joe

NH TOONER · 08-08-2012, 07:23 PM

I did quite a bit of ice diving years ago. We use to dive on the Lady of the Lake sunk in Glendale. (gives you something to look at.) I might have some ice screws for sale. We used them to anchor our tender lines down. They are used by ice climbers to secure lines.

oldflounder · 08-09-2012, 09:35 AM

NH Tooner --- Thanks for the reply---------so noted --- maybe someone will see this in the future and wish to purchase them from you. Keep watching the postings this fall. Maybe you can join up with us and give us advice with your experience...............Joe

NH TOONER · 08-09-2012, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldflounder

NH Tooner --- Thanks for the reply---------so noted --- maybe someone will see this in the future and wish to purchase them from you. Keep watching the postings this fall. Maybe you can join up with us and give us advice with your experience...............Joe

You will need to be comfortable in your drysuit and diving skills. Get the proper training from an instructor. I am a former PADI Master Instructor. I've done a lot of training on the lake. I no longer do it. I cant stress enough th get the training from an experienced instructor. I don't know your diving experience but the best advice is to be confortable with your equipment before going under the ice. Good luck
Dave

oldflounder · 11-01-2012, 11:34 AM

I started this post the end of June and it seems like yesterday. The past few months have flown by. I am still interested in training in some of the skills of ice diving before the season hits us. Mainly interested in rope communication practice between tender to diver and diver to tender. I'll probably be doing this in December at Lake Winnisquam's Ahern Park if the gate is kept open. Or my Plan B is Centre Harbor docks. If you are interested in getting on a contact list post here or PM me. I am not trained to teach this -- we will learn together. Experienced ice divers welcome to join in. I want to stress there will be no actual ice diving involved here.

oldflounder · 11-07-2012, 12:28 PM

The ocean forecast looks like crap again this upcoming weekend so I plan to go to Ctr Harbor or Ahern and just play around in the water and do a little scouting in prep for later ice training-communications. I am planning on Saturday as Sunday looks like a great day to get some more yard cleanup done. If anyone is interested I'd be happy for the company.

oldflounder · 11-09-2012, 12:27 PM

I found a buddy for tomorrow. We'll be at Ctr. Harbor abt. 11ish if anyone wants to stop by and play in the water with us. I want to start setting up the area for the communications practice this winter. I also want to investigate that structure behind the Mount.

oldflounder · 11-09-2012, 07:34 PM

Last minute change in plans --- my truck broke down going home tonight --- I won't be going to Lake Winnie tomorrow

oldflounder · 12-08-2012, 11:58 PM

Well I finally got back up to Ctr. Harbor today. I drove up in the rain and drove home in it, but I hit a 3 hour window so I lucked out. The water was 41* at 20', viz was 20' and air was mid 40's.

My main goal today was a shakedown dive to get the proper drysuit undergarments and weighting for this temp. This is the first time I have had the drysuit on since last Spring. As an added bonus I even managed to lay out 100' of guideline from the triple poles at the end of the first dock halfway to the red channel marker. Next time I'll get it the rest of the way. I ran out of time. I had my steel 72. I only got 1/2 hour in with it because the drysuit and full face mask uses up more air than normal.

After that I want to run a line from the marker to 50' off the rear of the Mount so that I can box in an area for ice dive practice in the months ahead.

If anyone has a concern with that, I will be removing the bottom line before boating/fishing season starts up again.

oldflounder · 12-31-2012, 06:31 PM

Hoping to get wet tomorrow in Lake Winnie for the first dive of 2013. Happy New Year to all........

oldflounder · 01-01-2013, 10:24 PM

...The hard part is overcoming all the obstacles to get to that point.

Well I did get up to the Lake today as I was hoping I would.
I am starting to think ice diving might be an extreme sport/recreational activity/whatever.

The air was low 20's, water was 35, 1' chop, ice forming 3' out from the shore and a good steady 20mph wind blowing ashore.

After spending 1/2 hour getting geared up, I never got my face any deeper than 3' underwater.

I entered the water and tried to shoot some air into my drysuit to warm up but nothing happened. That's a first for me. I shot a few squirts into the bcd to give me some buoyancy before I got over my head. I put the full face mask on, being careful to only breath through the ambient air valve, but I did activate the 2nd stage a couple times. At this time I was in neck deep water next to a dock so I ducked down to 3' to check my gauges, etc. Then I had another free flow like last year. The first stage froze up on the outside as did my ffm reg and my Air2 on my bc inflator. Everything was encased in a thin layer of ice. I have read that one quick fix for a freeflow is to shut off the tank and let the water thaw it out. Well that wasn't happening as my shut off valve was frozen in ice also. I started with 2500 and in 2 minutes I was at 0. I don't think free flow shut off switches on the regs would even work as they would probably freeze up also.

I was out last week as well. I experimented with a new cofiguration. I put my cheap Lowe's latex chemical gloves under my silicone seals hoping the silicone would seal against the latex. No such luck! I may as well have left the zipper open. I came out drenched from head to toe. The water must have been pouring in the sleeves the whole time.

And then I have the problem of not being able to pop my ears with the ffm on. Another issue I have to find a solution for.

If I ever make it down to 30' in ice water it should be easy after that.

Those of you that are planning to take an ice diving class this winter and haven't been diving since October should get out there beforehand and prepare. There is a Hell of a lot more to it than just spending a couple hours in a classroom and jumping into a hole in the ice!!!

GTO · 01-07-2013, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldflounder

...The hard part is overcoming all the obstacles to get to that point.

Well I did get up to the Lake today as I was hoping I would.
I am starting to think ice diving might be an extreme sport/recreational activity/whatever.

The air was low 20's, water was 35, 1' chop, ice forming 3' out from the shore and a good steady 20mph wind blowing ashore.

After spending 1/2 hour getting geared up, I never got my face any deeper than 3' underwater.

I entered the water and tried to shoot some air into my drysuit to warm up but nothing happened. That's a first for me. I shot a few squirts into the bcd to give me some buoyancy before I got over my head. I put the full face mask on, being careful to only breath through the ambient air valve, but I did activate the 2nd stage a couple times. At this time I was in neck deep water next to a dock so I ducked down to 3' to check my gauges, etc. Then I had another free flow like last year. The first stage froze up on the outside as did my ffm reg and my Air2 on my bc inflator. Everything was encased in a thin layer of ice. I have read that one quick fix for a freeflow is to shut off the tank and let the water thaw it out. Well that wasn't happening as my shut off valve was frozen in ice also. I started with 2500 and in 2 minutes I was at 0. I don't think free flow shut off switches on the regs would even work as they would probably freeze up also.

I was out last week as well. I experimented with a new cofiguration. I put my cheap Lowe's latex chemical gloves under my silicone seals hoping the silicone would seal against the latex. No such luck! I may as well have left the zipper open. I came out drenched from head to toe. The water must have been pouring in the sleeves the whole time.

And then I have the problem of not being able to pop my ears with the ffm on. Another issue I have to find a solution for.

If I ever make it down to 30' in ice water it should be easy after that.

Those of you that are planning to take an ice diving class this winter and haven't been diving since October should get out there beforehand and prepare. There is a Hell of a lot more to it than just spending a couple hours in a classroom and jumping into a hole in the ice!!!

your freakin me out here! if your going to be answering all your own threads, at least get a second screen name. Just kidding...I'm bored too

oldflounder · 01-07-2013, 08:15 PM

Anxiously awaiting ice-in so that I can end this thread and start another. Will be at Nubble this Saturday noon if anyone wants to join up to enjoy the warmer ocean water w/me and a few others.

oldflounder · 01-14-2013, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

your freakin me out here! if your going to be answering all your own threads, at least get a second screen name. Just kidding...I'm bored too

Hi GTO - You're right - I should convert this to a blog - it's just been a one-way dialogue. I'm not bored though. I'm trying to get others interested in ice dive training before the actual ice gets here. I'm running out of time though.

I'll be going up to Ctr. Hrb. town docks this Saturday with couple of others. I want to finish laying out some bottom guidelines and investigate the ramp behind the Mount. After that I should be able to end this thread as I expect ice-in to be occurring shortly.

oldflounder · 01-19-2013, 08:33 PM

Well I am finally putting this thread to bed. As far as I am concerned - with respect to scuba - ice in is here. There will be no more training prior to ice in. From now on it is in actual ice water conditions. No more practicing - this is the real thing.

Today I went to Center Harbor Town Docks with a winter diving buddy from the Maine dive club. We usually dive Nubble but I talked him into coming to the Lake today. I think it was an eye opener for him. Last weekend we dove Nubble and it was 40* with air of 38*. Today it was 34* water and 28* air. He was doing fine getting acclimated at the entry until I noticed that his octo hose was bubbling heavily from one of the fittings. I called him to the surface and his inflator valve froze open while we were talking. He couldn't unhook it because it was frozen solid on the outside. Needless to say we called the dive.

Oh well - back to the ocean and warmer water next weekend.

I'll be back though - maybe the weekend after.

So consider this thread officially closed.

06-26-2012, 08:22 AM	#1
oldflounder Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 99 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 9 Posts	Ice Dive Training before ice-in 2012/2013 I will be proposing this again as the season gets nearer but I just want to put the suggestion out there and see if there is any response. I wanted to take the ice diving course last year but as you know Mother Nature was kind to us and we had an easy winter. From my observation and limited experience with ice diving conditions and the classes - I don't think much hands on training gets done during the 3 or 4 days of class. At the end of classroom training many jump in the water for the first time in 2 months, with oftentimes a rented drysuit and a summer mask. You go down into a 6' hole with an insta-buddy, swim out 25' under the ice and get reeled back in. Then the next day you go in again for a few minutes and practice search/rescue drills. This is fine and I have no problem with it. You pay your $175 and you learn the basics of ice diving. But you are not that comfortable with it and it may be the only ice diving you ever do. Many of us just want the card for the prestige. Wouldn't the class be much more rewarding if you could practice the skills beforehand in comfort - in a 3mm wetsuit or even a bathing suit - in 66 degree water - standing on the deck of a boat feeding out the line to the divers [who are actually enjoying the experience and not half terrified, expecting a freeflow at any second]. I want to practice the skills this fall/early winter at Wolfeboro and Ctr. Harbor Town Docks. I'm not looking for buddies yet, but I will be as summer wears on and I get some extra free time on my hands and can get away from the ocean. Stay tuned --- this thread will be continued in the months ahead.......Joe

07-09-2012, 09:38 AM	#2
oldflounder Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 99 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 9 Posts	Training aid needed I am looking for an item to use this winter for tender/diver communication practicing. My plan [after boat season ends] is to have the tender stand on the Wolfeboro or Ctr. Harbr. town dock and feed the line(s) to the diver(s) through an artificial ice hole to simulate the rope against the hole and the problems that causes in communication. I need something that can be anchored down and will float on the surface. A 4 sided styrofoam float about 6'x6'. Any ideas --- maybe a dock part or a large water toy gadget --- maybe a beefed up hula hoop!

12-08-2012, 11:58 PM	#12
oldflounder Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 99 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 9 Posts	Well I finally got back up to Ctr. Harbor today. I drove up in the rain and drove home in it, but I hit a 3 hour window so I lucked out. The water was 41* at 20', viz was 20' and air was mid 40's. My main goal today was a shakedown dive to get the proper drysuit undergarments and weighting for this temp. This is the first time I have had the drysuit on since last Spring. As an added bonus I even managed to lay out 100' of guideline from the triple poles at the end of the first dock halfway to the red channel marker. Next time I'll get it the rest of the way. I ran out of time. I had my steel 72. I only got 1/2 hour in with it because the drysuit and full face mask uses up more air than normal. After that I want to run a line from the marker to 50' off the rear of the Mount so that I can box in an area for ice dive practice in the months ahead. If anyone has a concern with that, I will be removing the bottom line before boating/fishing season starts up again. Last edited by oldflounder; 12-09-2012 at 12:10 AM. Reason: addit info

12-31-2012, 06:31 PM	#13
oldflounder Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 99 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 9 Posts	Happy New Year Hoping to get wet tomorrow in Lake Winnie for the first dive of 2013. Happy New Year to all........

01-01-2013, 10:24 PM	#14
oldflounder Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 99 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 9 Posts	Diving 30' under the ice must be easy... ...The hard part is overcoming all the obstacles to get to that point. Well I did get up to the Lake today as I was hoping I would. I am starting to think ice diving might be an extreme sport/recreational activity/whatever. The air was low 20's, water was 35, 1' chop, ice forming 3' out from the shore and a good steady 20mph wind blowing ashore. After spending 1/2 hour getting geared up, I never got my face any deeper than 3' underwater. I entered the water and tried to shoot some air into my drysuit to warm up but nothing happened. That's a first for me. I shot a few squirts into the bcd to give me some buoyancy before I got over my head. I put the full face mask on, being careful to only breath through the ambient air valve, but I did activate the 2nd stage a couple times. At this time I was in neck deep water next to a dock so I ducked down to 3' to check my gauges, etc. Then I had another free flow like last year. The first stage froze up on the outside as did my ffm reg and my Air2 on my bc inflator. Everything was encased in a thin layer of ice. I have read that one quick fix for a freeflow is to shut off the tank and let the water thaw it out. Well that wasn't happening as my shut off valve was frozen in ice also. I started with 2500 and in 2 minutes I was at 0. I don't think free flow shut off switches on the regs would even work as they would probably freeze up also. I was out last week as well. I experimented with a new cofiguration. I put my cheap Lowe's latex chemical gloves under my silicone seals hoping the silicone would seal against the latex. No such luck! I may as well have left the zipper open. I came out drenched from head to toe. The water must have been pouring in the sleeves the whole time. And then I have the problem of not being able to pop my ears with the ffm on. Another issue I have to find a solution for. If I ever make it down to 30' in ice water it should be easy after that. Those of you that are planning to take an ice diving class this winter and haven't been diving since October should get out there beforehand and prepare. There is a Hell of a lot more to it than just spending a couple hours in a classroom and jumping into a hole in the ice!!!

The Following User Says Thank You to oldflounder For This Useful Post:
SharkBaitDiving (06-27-2012)

07-11-2012, 09:10 AM	#3
oldflounder Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 99 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 9 Posts	To answer my own question --- I think a large truck or tractor inner tube attached to a dock post would give a realistic feel of the line rubbing against the side of the ice hole. I am almost looking forward to this winter -almost but not quite!

08-07-2012, 12:07 PM	#4
oldflounder Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 99 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 9 Posts	I am starting to give this more consideration and at this point I am interested in getting together a contact list of people that may be interested in practicing ice diving skills before the season gets here - rather that be as a diver or as a tender. I am looking for both certified and those that wish to get certified. I am not an instructor, I am not ice certified yet and I have no affiliation doing this through any dive shop at the present time. It is just a get together of like minded people that want to pursue ice diving this upcoming winter in one way or another. If you think you may have an interest and want to be on the contact list send me a private message...................Joe

08-08-2012, 07:23 PM	#5
NH TOONER Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 3 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I did quite a bit of ice diving years ago. We use to dive on the Lady of the Lake sunk in Glendale. (gives you something to look at.) I might have some ice screws for sale. We used them to anchor our tender lines down. They are used by ice climbers to secure lines.

08-09-2012, 09:35 AM	#6
oldflounder Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 99 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 9 Posts	NH Tooner --- Thanks for the reply---------so noted --- maybe someone will see this in the future and wish to purchase them from you. Keep watching the postings this fall. Maybe you can join up with us and give us advice with your experience...............Joe

The Following User Says Thank You to NH TOONER For This Useful Post:
oldflounder (08-09-2012)

11-01-2012, 11:34 AM	#8
oldflounder Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 99 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 9 Posts	I started this post the end of June and it seems like yesterday. The past few months have flown by. I am still interested in training in some of the skills of ice diving before the season hits us. Mainly interested in rope communication practice between tender to diver and diver to tender. I'll probably be doing this in December at Lake Winnisquam's Ahern Park if the gate is kept open. Or my Plan B is Centre Harbor docks. If you are interested in getting on a contact list post here or PM me. I am not trained to teach this -- we will learn together. Experienced ice divers welcome to join in. I want to stress there will be no actual ice diving involved here.

11-07-2012, 12:28 PM	#9
oldflounder Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 99 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 9 Posts	The ocean forecast looks like crap again this upcoming weekend so I plan to go to Ctr Harbor or Ahern and just play around in the water and do a little scouting in prep for later ice training-communications. I am planning on Saturday as Sunday looks like a great day to get some more yard cleanup done. If anyone is interested I'd be happy for the company.

11-09-2012, 12:27 PM	#10
oldflounder Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 99 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 9 Posts	I found a buddy for tomorrow. We'll be at Ctr. Harbor abt. 11ish if anyone wants to stop by and play in the water with us. I want to start setting up the area for the communications practice this winter. I also want to investigate that structure behind the Mount.

11-09-2012, 07:34 PM	#11
oldflounder Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 99 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 9 Posts	Last minute change in plans --- my truck broke down going home tonight --- I won't be going to Lake Winnie tomorrow

01-07-2013, 08:15 PM	#16
oldflounder Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 99 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 9 Posts	Anxiously awaiting ice-in so that I can end this thread and start another. Will be at Nubble this Saturday noon if anyone wants to join up to enjoy the warmer ocean water w/me and a few others.

01-19-2013, 08:33 PM	#18
oldflounder Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 99 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 9 Posts	Closing thread Well I am finally putting this thread to bed. As far as I am concerned - with respect to scuba - ice in is here. There will be no more training prior to ice in. From now on it is in actual ice water conditions. No more practicing - this is the real thing. Today I went to Center Harbor Town Docks with a winter diving buddy from the Maine dive club. We usually dive Nubble but I talked him into coming to the Lake today. I think it was an eye opener for him. Last weekend we dove Nubble and it was 40* with air of 38. Today it was 34 water and 28* air. He was doing fine getting acclimated at the entry until I noticed that his octo hose was bubbling heavily from one of the fittings. I called him to the surface and his inflator valve froze open while we were talking. He couldn't unhook it because it was frozen solid on the outside. Needless to say we called the dive. Oh well - back to the ocean and warmer water next weekend. I'll be back though - maybe the weekend after. So consider this thread officially closed.