Yikes

[SAMIAM]

My marina just took my boat out of storage on monday.On the way home we noticed that it was listing pretty hard to starboard ( 2012 triple log pontoon/250 Yamaha).When I got to look at it sitting at the dock,the starboard pontoon was about 8" lower than the port side.
There are no drains in those units but it seems to have taken on water somehow.
I looked underneath when they pulled it out and looked like there was damage to the pontoon about 15" from the stern and close to the deck.....I'm thinking forklift damage but haven't heard back yet
.I'm a little worried because marina's all have damage disclaimers.......

[Chaselady]

If you don't mind my asking, what kind of boat, and which marina?

[SAMIAM]

Actually,ChaseLady,I left thatinformation out deliberately because I didn't want to put them in a bad light.Anyone can make an honest mistake and they have always been great in the past.Hope you understand.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Actually,ChaseLady,I left thatinformation out deliberately because I didn't want to put them in a bad light.Anyone can make an honest mistake and they have always been great in the past.Hope you understand.

...you would like to give them the opportunity to make things right.

Saw a pontoon boat a year or two ago in Alton Bay, opposite the public docks, that had a similar list to it. It did manage to stay afloat for a few days, and then it was gone, and we assume to be fixed. No idea what the problem or the fix was.

Just a good lesson to all of us, regardless of whether it is a pontoon or standard hull powerboat or sailboat, check it out in the hours and then next few days after launch to make sure all is right. If you can't physically do it, ask a friend or the marina to check it out for the next few days.

Thanks for sharing.

[Retired Ole Guy]

I had a pontoon pop a seam last year. A week without it as they took it out an welded it. Near as I can tell never hit anything or saw any damage-prior to it

[searay220]

Saw a pontoon boat a year or two ago in Alton Bay, opposite the public docks, that had a similar list to it. It did manage to stay afloat for a few days, and then it was gone, and we assume to be fixed. No idea what the problem or the fix was.

upthesaukee That pontoon boat belongs to a friend of mine. The short version is that it is a $40k Bennington pontoon boat thats now 3 years old. The first season with this boat is the pontoons kept taking on water due to bad welds on the pontoons and they also kept denting due to bad supprt with in the toons. The second season Bennington replace the pontoons and the same problems happened again. Over the winter Channel Marine and Bennington replaced the pontoons again with there new heavy dutie pontoons. He picked up the boat last weekend and brought it back to the camp and when he looked it over there was a large dent in one of the toons. He said it looked like a forklift may have done that. He also found a huge tear in one of the bench seats. So back to Channel he went. Meanwhile he is paying for a slip and a boat loan and can't use the boat.
In my opinion I would stay away from Channel Marine and Bennington Boats.

[HellRaZoR004]

That sounds like some real bad luck.

[Happy Gourmand]

I put a deposit on a Bennington earlier this year but backed out of the deal. Their pontoons are made with .08 gauge aluminum, as are most pontoons. I ended up with a Premier, their pontoons are .09 gauge. Doesn't sound like much but you can sure tell the difference when you knock on them.

Of course, even the extra thickness is no match for a forklift!

[SAMIAM]

Guess I can tell you now since they are going to make it right.It is a 2012 Bennington.We love to boat and always happy with Channel Marine.Jeff,the service manager emailed me yesterday and they have ordered a new log and are going to weld the old one so we can use it for now.
Good dealership.This is the second time they have stepped up to fix a problem.....feel bad for the fortklift operator.Anyone ca make a mistake.

[LIforrelaxin]

With all the incidents mentioned in this thread, and with the way I see many pontoons stored. The issue really isn't anything to do with the brand, or with the thickness of the pontoons....

Rather with how the marina's tend to store these boats. The support is not good enough. Look at a pontoon trailer, and you will see one of two things. Either bunks that support most all of the pontoons, or they sit with the floor of the pontoon supported and toons are left dangling.

The bottom line is that they put this pontoons, into storage, and support them very minimally, in the normal storage racks. The pontoons are only support by the main carrying beams which are only a few inches wide. While for many years this wasn't a problem, now the boats are getting heavier, and have bigger engines. The the wieght is more then likely crushing the pontoons, creating leaks or weakening welds, causing the pontoons to fill with water....

The bottom line, is that I don't believe many marina's properly support the the pontoon boats for the winter months....

[ishoot308]

One of the issues with pontoons is condensation that forms inside the tubes then freezes and pops the weld seams during the winter. A simple solution is to put a little bit of RV antifreeze (non toxic) in the tubes before storage. This will keep whatever water that forms from freezing during winter storage.

Dan

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

One of the issues with pontoons is condensation that forms inside the tubes then freezes and pops the weld seams during the winter. A simple solution is to put a little bit of RV antifreeze (non toxic) in the tubes before storage. This will keep whatever water that forms from freezing during winter storage.

Dan

If the tubes are sealed how does one put the fluid in?

[HomeWood]

Originally Posted by HellRaZoR004

If the tubes are sealed how does one put the fluid in?

A good welder could install a pipe plug very easily, but that would probably throw your warranty away. If your warranty is expired, it may not be a bad idea. I'm surprised all toons don't have some kind of plug to let water out or at least allow it to get pumped out from the top.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by HellRaZoR004

If the tubes are sealed how does one put the fluid in?

Most pontoons have drain holes. They can be hard to find but normally there is a drain hole somewhere on the tube. Most of these tubes come slightly pressurized from the factory (2-3 PSI) and are pressurized through the drain hole, some do not. Some logs have multiple drain holes for each baffled section of the log. If you can't find one I would call your local dealer or factory rep and ask. It took me a while to find mine...

Dan

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by HellRaZoR004

If the tubes are sealed how does one put the fluid in?

If they are truly sealed, then no condensation would be able to form inside.

[ishoot308]

Also, sometimes the drain holes are on the top of the tube under the deck and a pump with tubing is required to drain the logs.

Bennington Pontoons do not have drain holes and are not pressurized. If you get hole on the upper portion of the tube Bennington recommends drilling a hole in the bottom of the affected baffles and having a competent welder re-weld.

Dan

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

One of the issues with pontoons is condensation that forms inside the tubes then freezes and pops the weld seams during the winter. A simple solution is to put a little bit of RV antifreeze (non toxic) in the tubes before storage. This will keep whatever water that forms from freezing during winter storage.

Dan

How much water gets in exactly? I've never owned a pontoon boat, but just looking at the overall volume of the logs, and thinking about how compressible air is, it would seem that by the time enough water got in that its freezing (and slight expansion) were enough to cause issues you'd be WELL aware of it.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

How much water gets in exactly? I've never owned a pontoon boat, but just looking at the overall volume of the logs, and thinking about how compressible air is, it would seem that by the time enough water got in that its freezing (and slight expansion) were enough to cause issues you'd be WELL aware of it.

The problem becomes when a small amount of water gets trapped in the corner of the weld seams. This mainly happens in the nose cone section where a lot of welds, seams and sections come together at different angles and water can get trapped. It doesn't take much either.

Last year when my pontoon was first put in the water I had a small weld pop in the front of my center pontoon. Over the period of a couple weeks I could tell something was wrong as my speed slowed by 5 MPH and I could feel the drag.

Fay's pulled the boat and it took two hours for the water to drain. A quick trip to the weld shop had me up and running the same day.

Dan

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

The problem becomes when a small amount of water gets trapped in the corner of the weld seams. This mainly happens in the nose cone section where a lot of welds, seams and sections come together at different angles and water can get trapped. It doesn't take much either.

Last year when my pontoon was first put in the water I had a small weld pop in the front of my center pontoon. Over the period of a couple weeks I could tell something was wrong as my speed slowed by 5 MPH and I could feel the drag.

Fay's pulled the boat and it took two hours for the water to drain. A quick trip to the weld shop had me up and running the same day.

Dan

Interesting.

Seems like it would be relatively easy to add a simple pressure gauge/sensor to the 'toons. Since they are pressurized slightly (or should/could be), you wouldn't even need much of a gauge, just a basic redlight/greenlight indicator. If I had a 'toon, I'd probably build something like that just for the sake of easily knowing that no cracks had developed.

[searay220]

According to Bennington with my friends boat that this issue they had never seen before and without saying it directly made him feel like it was his fault. This is his third season with the boat and the third set of pontoons. Now it's back to Channel again for another set after what looks like forklift damage when he picked it up last week. They had the boat all winter and they gave it back to him with a large dent in one of the pontoons and large cut in one of the seat cushions. Channel should be ashamed of themselves. The first time the pontoons were replaced Channel damaged a side pannel and never told him about it just like this new damage. How do you stay in business doing work like that.

[NHBUOY]

It takes REAL forking skills to move pontoon boats, especially the 3-tube versions.

Channel Marine's topography only adds another skill level to the equation.

A pontoon's lift points are tight, and if the boat twists, on axis, just a mere couple inches, a tube or 2 can get dented enroute to the drop-in zone.

The pontoon boat, when 1st lifted, had no damage to begin the trip, but, would go undiscovered until the next time out, or, it takes on water & displays the dreaded "List". ..

Bennington is a 1st-class outfit.

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Interesting.

Seems like it would be relatively easy to add a simple pressure gauge/sensor to the 'toons. Since they are pressurized slightly (or should/could be), you wouldn't even need much of a gauge, just a basic redlight/greenlight indicator. If I had a 'toon, I'd probably build something like that just for the sake of easily knowing that no cracks had developed.

Sounds like a great idea, and easy to do too. but I wonder how the pressure would be affected by air and water temperature. I would guess that on a real hot sunny day, with the boat out of the water, in the sun, that you could end up with some "balooning" pontoons.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

Sounds like a great idea, and easy to do too. but I wonder how the pressure would be affected by air and water temperature. I would guess that on a real hot sunny day, with the boat out of the water, in the sun, that you could end up with some "balooning" pontoons.

Generally speaking you'd only need to know that the internal pressure of the pontoons was greater than the outside atmospheric pressure. You're correct that on hot days the pressure might go up more than usual, but it should still settle back down to something above outside air pressure as the 'toons cool.

[SIKSUKR]

I'd be very surprized if the pressure raised at all in a pontoon because of air temp.The pontoons are aluminum and are a great conductor which would lead me to believe they would pretty much stay about the temp of the water unless the boat was on a lift or racked.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I'd be very surprized if the pressure raised at all in a pontoon because of air temp.The pontoons are aluminum and are a great conductor which would lead me to believe they would pretty much stay about the temp of the water unless the boat was on a lift or racked.

PV=nRT if the pontoons are sealed then the pressure will change with temperature. Don't forget about the sun..... Science, it's great stuff.

[NoBozo]

It makes no engineering sense to me, for the tubes to be Permanently sealed. IF the tubes were sealed at the factory, AND were pressurized, they would likely be "charged" with Dry Nitrogen. To do this, a "special" charging valve would be required and the AIR in the tube "evacuated".. before the nitrogen is introduced. The Only advantage to charging the tubes with dry nitrogen would be to prevent corrosion inside the tube. I highly doubt the factory would consider this "practicle". BTW: Any internal bulkheads/baffles will have "Limber Holes" to allow water to drain aft in a controlled manner.

It Would make perfect sense..both from the factory's/dealers point of view (future warranty work).. and the owners convenience, to provide access ports (with screw in covers and gaskets) on the top of the tubes to allow pumping the tubes out if required. Just a thought.. NB

PS: Sea Plane floats have such access ports on the top.

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Guess I can tell you now since they are going to make it right.It is a 2012 Bennington.We love to boat and always happy with Channel Marine.Jeff,the service manager emailed me yesterday and they have ordered a new log and are going to weld the old one so we can use it for now.
Good dealership.This is the second time they have stepped up to fix a problem.....feel bad for the fortklift operator.Anyone ca make a mistake.

SAMIAM I totally agree with you. Channel Marine has and absolutely stands behind any work that may need to be done. It was an unfortunate human error. The distance between each log is tight for a fork lift. The forks themselves have less than an inch on both sides. It takes a very skilled driver to place the forks correctly without damage. In this case, it has happened before and the unfortunate individual, I been told is now looking for new employment.

I do want to set the record straight concerning the gauge of the logs. It all depends on the size of the log, the size of the engine, and if it has a performance package and rough water package. I just ordered a Bennington tritoon with a 300 Verado. The nose cone is 1.00 and the logs are 0.90. If you were to get a smaller toon the gauge is .80. So a blanket statement cannot be made that the Premier builds a stronger log. Actually Bennington is the ONLY manufacture that has their ESP package tritoon rated for a 400 HP outboard. Their Tritoon I/O can now take up to 600HP.

I spent two years with sea trials, studying the engineering design and talking to Mfg reps. I put together a decision matrix that included everything that was important to me. It is difficult to choose between the different makes. This decision matrix made it much easier and was clear to me what MFG IN MY MIND was the better make.

After making my decision I traveled to Elkhart, IND. last week and saw how the Bennington line of boats were built. Extreme quality control in each step of the production line. The GM took me on a tour. I was VERY impressed. Bennington is now breaking all kinds of sales records. They shipped over 1100 boats just in one month. Their sales are on a steep climb. The have a seven year nonprorated warranty. Life time warranty from the deck on down.

I wanted a boat that could take on the roughest water that Winni could generate. I tested all the makes in rough water. I used to be an offshore performance racer and I was totally impressed the way the G and R series performed. The boat is totally dry even in 25 knot winds. I use to live and race on Lake Erie. Bennington has a new dealer on Lake Erie. I never thought I would ever see any kind of pontoon boat that could handle Lake Erie.

I was also told there is a new dealer on Long Island Sound, NY. There was an in- water boat show. The dealer had Grady White and an large off shore center console like an Intriped. The Grady White was being demoed and each time it came back the boat and passengers were totally wet. No one was interested in the Bennington until late in the day. No one felt that the PONTOON boat could handle the ocean surf. Well it went out with the Bennington Sales Manager and the new dealer. The boat came back totally dry. Everyone on board was dry. The dealer could not believe it.

Other things I learned is that the logs are sealed except they do have a plug at the top of the log. This is for pressure testing. On top of the plug is a an adapter with pin hole in it. The hole is for equalizing pressure in the log and reduces condensation. If you were ever to stand next to a log and hear it expand with a pong sound. This adapter prevents the log from expanding.

Will I just wanted to give you my experience that took two years to make a decision. I won't give out the names of the other MFG or my rankings after Bennington. If there is any interest. PM me and I will share with you my criteria or any other information that will help make your decision.

I might just add. My experience with Channel Marine over the last two years have been outstanding. Sales Manager Jason Wylie and Service Manager Jeff are on top of their game. I am very pleased with my decision to go Bennington.

Disclaimer...I don't have any stock or ownership either in Channel Marine or Bennington. Actually I was told that all the employees at Bennington own the company. They all take pride in their work.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by ITD

PV=nRT if the pontoons are sealed then the pressure will change with temperature. Don't forget about the sun..... Science, it's great stuff.

Put a can of beer 1/3 submerged in the water on a hot sunny day.Open that beer after a few hours and check the temp.I'll bet that beer temp is very close to the water temp.
Science is great stuff when combined with comman sense.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Put a can of beer 1/3 submerged in the water on a hot sunny day.Open that beer after a few hours and check the temp.I'll bet that beer temp is very close to the water temp.
Science is great stuff when combined with comman sense.

The area of the beer can relative to its water and air contact is a lot different than that of a pontoon log...

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Put a can of beer 1/3 submerged in the water on a hot sunny day.Open that beer after a few hours and check the temp.I'll bet that beer temp is very close to the water temp.
Science is great stuff when combined with comman sense.

Are you talking about a 12 oz can or a 16 oz can?

[jrc]

Drink the beer before it get too warm, that's common sense and science.

Wow, toons have come a long way from the days of the pokey party barge. The big one in our marina is amazing.

[ITD]

Ahhhh, I didn't realize they filled the pontoons with beer......

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by ITD

Ahhhh, I didn't realize they filled the pontoons with beer......

Now we're talking some sense

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by HellRaZoR004

Now we're talking some sense

It's like a "Self Propelled" KEG. NB

[ITD]

Some CO2 and a cold plate, that would be some party!!

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

It's like a "Self Propelled" KEG. NB

Don't give the party barge in Braun Bay any ideas

[ishoot308]

All this talk about holes in pontoons jinxed me!!

I have been noticing a loss in speed for the past couple weeks and navigating to my slip at Fay's this morning I knew something was up as I felt a lot of drag and speed was way down by about 10 MPH.

Fay's pulled the boat for me and lo and behold another hole in the center tube towards the front nose cone! Not sure what caused this one yet...

Dan

[SAMIAM]

Getting a little discouraged.........Monday will be 3weeks without the boat.I emailed Jeff and got no response.He said he would weld it so we could use the boat until the new pontoon arrived.I thought we were pretty understanding....didn't get mad that they put a fork lift through my brand new Bennington,so I thought he might get right on it.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Getting a little discouraged.........Monday will be 3weeks without the boat.I emailed Jeff and got no response.He said he would weld it so we could use the boat until the new pontoon arrived.I thought we were pretty understanding....didn't get mad that they put a fork lift through my brand new Bennington,so I thought he might get right on it.

I would be pretty upset too!!

Dan

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Getting a little discouraged.........Monday will be 3weeks without the boat.I emailed Jeff and got no response.He said he would weld it so we could use the boat until the new pontoon arrived.I thought we were pretty understanding....didn't get mad that they put a fork lift through my brand new Bennington,so I thought he might get right on it.

I've done a lot of Aluminum welding using TIG or MIG and I can tell you it is not easy to repair something that is only @ 0.080 - 0.090 thick.
A patch is the best way to go, and even then it is difficult.

They are probably waiting for the new log to come in so they don't have to fix the old one.

These are just my opinions and I post them as such!

[fatlazyless]

...would most definitely be an easy & quik-fix with www.getflexseal.com/ ...flexseal to the rescue, buddy, with Phil Swift!

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Getting a little discouraged.........Monday will be 3weeks without the boat.I emailed Jeff and got no response.He said he would weld it so we could use the boat until the new pontoon arrived.I thought we were pretty understanding....didn't get mad that they put a fork lift through my brand new Bennington,so I thought he might get right on it.

Sorry to hear about this development. It sure puts a damper on the excitement of getting a new boat. I would be very upset at this point
I think I will get a trailer for my new pontoon boat and try to keep forklifts away from it.

[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Getting a little discouraged.........Monday will be 3weeks without the boat.I emailed Jeff and got no response.He said he would weld it so we could use the boat until the new pontoon arrived.I thought we were pretty understanding....didn't get mad that they put a fork lift through my brand new Bennington,so I thought he might get right on it.

At this point I would be asking for a loaner boat at no charge and a rebate on my valet fee. You paid your money and thru the sole fault of the dealer you don't have your boat, you should not have to pay to store a boat you can't use. The dealer has to take some responsibility here as it was their employee that caused the damage.

[SAMIAM]

All good suggestions.......I fired off another(not so friendly)email asking for a loaner.We'll see what happens.

[NHBUOY]

Hey Sam. I am thinking no news is good news.?.

Hope you are on the water now.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by NHBUOY

Hey Sam. I am thinking no news is good news.?.

Hope you are on the water now.

Thanks NHBUOY......yup,boat was delivered this week ....just in time for the great weather.Had a nice booze cruz with some friends to celebrate but some didn't realize that 90 degrees doesn't translate to water temperature.......still in the 60's....yikes (again)

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

Samiam, though it's been an awful week for boating, I was wondering if you heard from them regarding your request. I was chatting with another friend who kept his boat at Channel since 1986, but left them last year because of damage they did to his boat with a forlkift and then fought him tooth and nail about fixing it.

I just read your post. I was very disappointed in you posting bad information about certain marina's. You of all people should not be.

I know first hand that you went to this same marina to buy a pontoon boat because you told a friend of mine that the boat line they carried was the best pontoon boat on the market.

You then told them that you were a friend of a very good customer of theirs. You didn't even know this person only by a craig's listing and his name. They believed you and gave you a steep discount based on your word. Then you asked them, I was told, to correct and add items to make the sale to your liking which they did. When it came to closing you walked away.

Walking away from a transaction is a buyers right. And buyers remorse is understood. But what is disappointing is how you continue to give them a bad name.

I'm totally confused and others as well......what is your motive?

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by chasedawg

I just read your post. I was very disappointed in you posting bad information about certain marina's. You of all people should not be.

I know first hand that you went to this same marina to buy a pontoon boat because you told a friend of mine that the boat line they carried was the best pontoon boat on the market.

You then told them that you were a friend of a very good customer of theirs. You didn't even know this person only by a craig's listing and his name. They believed you and gave you a steep discount based on your word. Then you asked them, I was told, to correct and add items to make the sale to your liking which they did. When it came to closing you walked away.

Walking away from a transaction is a buyers right. And buyers remorse is understood. But what is disappointing is how you continue to give them a bad name.

I'm totally confused and others as well......what is your motive?

I PM'd a response.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by chasedawg

I just read your post. I was very disappointed in you posting bad information about certain marina's. You of all people should not be.

I know first hand that you went to this same marina to buy a pontoon boat because you told a friend of mine that the boat line they carried was the best pontoon boat on the market.

You then told them that you were a friend of a very good customer of theirs. You didn't even know this person only by a craig's listing and his name. They believed you and gave you a steep discount based on your word. Then you asked them, I was told, to correct and add items to make the sale to your liking which they did. When it came to closing you walked away.

Walking away from a transaction is a buyers right. And buyers remorse is understood. But what is disappointing is how you continue to give them a bad name.

I'm totally confused and others as well......what is your motive?

Chasedawg.....I have no idea what you are talking about......I believe you have me confused with someone else.
I did not walk away from any closing.I went to Channel because I had already decided on a Bennington......made the deal that same day.
I had previously looked at the Premier at Winnisquam Marina but liked the design of the Bennington better.Never even got close to a deal but felt bad because they are awesome folks,who I've dealt with in the past.
Your statement that I said I was a friend of a good customer that I knew from Craigs list,gave me a steep discount and I walked away from a closing did not happen.I'll say again......you have confused me with someone else.
I've never even used Craigs list and I don't recall ever speaking badly of any marina's or any other business for that matter.
My wife might agree with you that I'm losing my mind but I can't recall any of this happening

[chasedawg]

SAMIAM....Sorry I confused you. Please read the title again......I will send you a PM

[SAMIAM]

That was MY mistake,Chasedawg.........I read it over quickly and didn't notice it was a quote......so sorry.
Knew it was some kind of a mix up and turned out to be mine.

[Orion]

My 25' Bennington triton only gets racked at the end of the season and this Spring it was damaged on the racks. Looks like the forklift operator dropped it a bit too quickly onto the I-beams of the rack. It was placed very far aft on the toon and the weld at the transom plate let go and there were marks showing where the beam actually "hit" the keel plate. I am going with my trailer for next winter, and hope to get inside storage for it on the trailer. Both logs have also been whacked in the rear by the forklift. Forklifts are not kind to pontoons unless you have a real experienced operator. Also, putting it 20' up in the rack does not seem like a good idea when trying to thread those forks into the narrow opening, or gauging the height off the beams. Also, a prior storage facility had acid washed (yes you read it right), my aluminum pontoons without properly rinsing and ended up etching the finish on them. Other than that, I love my Bennington and have had it in rough waves and lots of people on the Lake since 2001. Great boat.