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Old 07-31-2021, 03:12 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by XCR-700 View Post
There is no such thing as 100% responsible for operation of a boat, gun, car.
We can all run out of luck at some point, but don't cloud the issue with extreme cases like "100%". There have been several deaths on the lake over the past several years, I'm pretty sure there was pilot error, including taking too much risk, in each. (correct me if I'm wrong)

If you are not prepared to accept responsibility for something that can be lethal; don't captain a boat, drive a car, or buy a gun.
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Old 07-31-2021, 04:06 PM   #102
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Correct me if Iím wrong, but does anyone else here notice great quantities of testosterone zinging across this thread?
No doubt you are correct says one of the offenders ;-)

No sense being dishonest about it, it wont make it any better,,,
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Old 07-31-2021, 04:20 PM   #103
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We can all run out of luck at some point, but don't cloud the issue with extreme cases like "100%". There have been several deaths on the lake over the past several years, I'm pretty sure there was pilot error, including taking too much risk, in each. (correct me if I'm wrong)
I agree with you that in some of the cases there probably were clear problems with operator error, and in other cases no not "at fault" ;-)

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If you are not prepared to accept responsibility for something that can be lethal; don't captain a boat, drive a car, or buy a gun.
And absolutely not if you were not in the wrong. Just because you were the operator you are not always responsible. Each case MUST be evaluated honestly and a determination what happened an who caused it. And when no clear cause can be determined you cannot place blame. Its a cornerstone of our faith in the American legal system; "innocent until proven guilt" NOT guilty until proven innocent. Its that reverse logic you are applying that too often costs innocent people everything they own to prove their innocence.

We must be responsible for "OUR" actions, we are not just responsible because we were there or just because we were the operator. Does anyone remember all the cars where the throttle accelerated the car or would not release (Audi - Toyota - etc) or the Firestone tires that exploded??? These drivers were NOT at fault for a failure their cars and tires got recalled over after several serious events.

Personal responsibility for personal actions, not for things beyond your control. Thats a game for ambulance chasing lawyers looking for cash.
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Old 07-31-2021, 04:35 PM   #104
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Holy cow, how about not setting yourself up for the error in the first place?


Lol, how you can so mistake my words and comments is telling, have a good one.
You can keep finding ways to twist the matter all you want, the bottom line there was a crash and an injury!

Fact, many boaters on Winnipesaukee will never meet your standards for an operator.

Fact, we sell 50 MPH power boats to anyone who can pay cash or who has credit but may never have ever set foot in a boat.

Fact, boat registration does not require you to provide a license showing you know anything about boat safety.

Fact, a boat license does not require you to demonstrate you can actually operate a boat safely.

Fact, we rent boats to people who may never have set foot onto a boat, AND worse yet, they no longer even offer them insurance,,,

Fact, we rent paddle boards to people who have no experience with them or around boats/docks.

Fact, when a boat collides with a paddle board, there is likely to be an injury!

If that all is not enough to convince you that asking paddle boards to keep 20' from public boat docks is reasonable, then its ok by me that you disagree, but I remain convinced it would be safer if they were separated by some modest distance.

You can point to all the responsibilities you want and all the capabilities you think boaters should have, but the reality is thats not our world and accidents are a risk when you allow boats and paddle boards in and around public boat docks at the same time.

Is there really anything more to say about this? I'll bet on it.
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Old 07-31-2021, 04:47 PM   #105
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You can keep finding ways to twist the matter all you want, the bottom line there was a crash and an injury!

Fact, many boaters on Winnipesaukee will never meet your standards for an operator.

Fact, we sell 50 MPH power boats to anyone who can pay cash or who has credit but may never have ever set foot in a boat.

Fact, boat registration does not require you to provide a license showing you know anything about boat safety.

Fact, a boat license does not require you to demonstrate you can actually operate a boat safely.

Fact, we rent boats to people who may never have set foot onto a boat, AND worse yet, they no longer even offer them insurance,,,

Fact, we rent paddle boards to people who have no experience with them or around boats/docks.

Fact, when a boat collides with a paddle board, there is likely to be an injury!

If that all is not enough to convince you that asking paddle boards to keep 20' from public boat docks is reasonable, then its ok by me that you disagree, but I remain convinced it would be safer if they were separated by some modest distance.

You can point to all the responsibilities you want and all the capabilities you think boaters should have, but the reality is thats not our world and accidents are a risk when you allow boats and paddle boards in and around public boat docks at the same time.

Is there really anything more to say about this? I'll bet on it.
You keep swinging and missing.

You want a rule to separate non powered lake users from powered lake users, but you yourself admit that you are afraid of your boat and have been for 50 years. How about one law that addresses the main issue, boaters who can't be bothered to learn how to control their boat, instead of forcing others out of the way of these boaters who probably shouldn't be there in the first place?
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Old 07-31-2021, 06:22 PM   #106
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You keep swinging and missing.

You want a rule to separate non powered lake users from powered lake users, but you yourself admit that you are afraid of your boat and have been for 50 years. How about one law that addresses the main issue, boaters who can't be bothered to learn how to control their boat, instead of forcing others out of the way of these boaters who probably shouldn't be there in the first place?
..........
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Old 07-31-2021, 07:25 PM   #107
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You keep swinging and missing.

You want a rule to separate non powered lake users from powered lake users, but you yourself admit that you are afraid of your boat and have been for 50 years. How about one law that addresses the main issue, boaters who can't be bothered to learn how to control their boat, instead of forcing others out of the way of these boaters who probably shouldn't be there in the first place?
We get those. Every so often more restrictions are placed on motorized users do to these interactions.

I don't think that HHH will ban motorized boating access to the Lakehouse, and doubt that Meredith would ban motorized boating access altogether... but odder things have happened.
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Old 07-31-2021, 08:41 PM   #108
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Correct me if Iím wrong, but does anyone else here notice great quantities of testosterone zinging across this thread?
Sue, I see only one way to settle this. A good old fashioned wild west duel. Here's how it will work. At high noon ITD and XCR show up at the Meredith docks in their boat of choice. Ten forum members are on the dock with 1 to 10 flash cards to flash their scores. Each boater shows their skill at holding a spot, docking, leaving the dock, and obstacle avoidance. I'll be on my paddle board and when they least expect it I'll dart out from behind the dock into their path. Winning score wins the thread argument.
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Old 07-31-2021, 09:12 PM   #109
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Sue, I see only one way to settle this. A good old fashioned wild west duel. Here's how it will work. At high noon ITD and XCR show up at the Meredith docks in their boat of choice. Ten forum members are on the dock with 1 to 10 flash cards to flash their scores. Each boater shows their skill at holding a spot, docking, leaving the dock, and obstacle avoidance. I'll be on my paddle board and when they least expect it I'll dart out from behind the dock into their path. Winning score wins the thread argument.
Please,,, And in reality thats counter to my point that such skills do not exist in the common boater.

If you are serious then lets get serious,,,

I propose Spitballs at 10 paces using the big plastic straws from Sawyers (non-biodegradable)

The first to grimace is the loser!

The loser must then stand at the end of a Meredith dock holding a sign with the opponents position for 15 minutes at high noon without a hat or sunglasses and no one can bring him water for the entire time!

The signs would read: Safe for Paddle Boarders OR Paddle Boarders Please Stay Back 20 feet

The battle would continue until someone loses, or either or both run out of spit.

In the event of a draw, the parties will paddle board blindfolded in front of the Meredith docks at their choice of zero feet or 20' distance until someone has an unsafe encounter with a boat, at which time a victor will be declared, or until such time as either party concedes the other is right; no buffer needed, or some buffer is safer.

Admission can be charged for spectators and donations accepted to fund an injured paddle boarder recovery trust.

All in favor of this plan can signify by clicking thanks for this singular post.

And with this I think we have said more than enough (I hope)
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Old 07-31-2021, 09:23 PM   #110
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And with this I think we have said more than enough (I hope)
Or maybe we could ask FLL to jump in and help us out by inserting noodles into the duel,,,
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Old 08-01-2021, 07:23 AM   #111
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Sorry ANYONE who operates any powerful motorized vehicle and says they have no fear of running over a paddle boarder/bicyclist/pedestrian/ect should not be behind the wheel. Operating boats and cars on public roads and waterways is not NASCAR you need to keep a healthy dose of concern front an center. There is no place for arrogant operators that believe they can do no wrong. This is just foolish and irresponsible soapbox grandstanding.

Its no wonder we dont have far more accidents with attitudes like that.
I agree with this as well. I was just going by people using the word fear. Either way. There are always multiple sides of looking at things. I always find that people have to look at both sides.
I am a type of person that will usually bring the second side of things to look at. So I believe in everything that wrote about banning 30' boats? no, but there is no way Paddlers should also be banned.
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Old 08-01-2021, 07:55 AM   #112
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From the U.S. Coast Guard, the Coast Guard considers a stand up paddle board to be a vessel which I suppose means something like it is a boat somewhat similar to a sit-on-top kayak and not just a water toy or water float. So an 11'6" x 32" sup that weighs 35-lbs and is paddled can share the waters with motor boats ..... lots-o-luck ....

What is still not known is the capability of the boat driver. Was it a rental pontoon. Is she an experienced motor boater or just a first time driver?

The same questions apply to the paddle boarder as well?

Paddle boards and motor boats sharing the same waters is obviously somewhat of a crazy situation and most paddle boarders know to stay away from the motor boat traffic. Is like a no-brainer and very obvious as to where NOT to go on a paddle board. Paddle boards tend to stay close to the shore just like kayaks unless they have a death wish or don't know what's what with motor boats. You paddle in water spaces where the motor boats don't go due to shallow water, rocks, and lake geography.

Is a sup a vessel or is it just a water toy? Well ...... the U.S.C.G. says that a sup is a vessel so good luck with sups and motor boats sharing the same water spaces.

Here in New Hampshire, the Fish and Game boat launch ramps all across the state are off-limits to swimmers and for bathing. A sup with a paddler is considered to be a vessel by the U.S. Coast Guard so paddle boarders may use the Fish and Game boat launches to access the water and then, after paddling away from the launch ramp, is ok to use the paddle board like a swim raft for swimming and bathing. So, how does this all work in the real world of NH boat launch areas?

"You know that you can be right, but you can also be dead right" is a saying that applies to running a yellow light at a stop light while driving a car, and it also applies to paddling a stand up paddleboard in an area of a NH lake that has a lot of motorboat traffic. Slow moving stand up paddle boards and motorboats going faster than no-wake speed are not a very good combination. The two should pretty much be exclusive of one another and kept a safe distance apart to avoid a collision between the two.
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Old 08-01-2021, 08:17 AM   #113
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From the U.S. Coast Guard, the Coast Guard considers a stand up paddle board to be a vessel which I suppose means something like it is a boat somewhat similar to a sit-on-top kayak and not just a water toy or water float. So an 11'6" x 32" sup that weighs 35-lbs and is paddled can share the waters with motor boats ..... lots-o-luck ....

What is still not known is the capability of the boat driver. Was it a rental pontoon. Is she an experienced motor boater or just a first time driver?

The same questions apply to the paddle boarder as well?

Paddle boards and motor boats sharing the same waters is obviously somewhat of a crazy situation and most paddle boarders know to stay away from the motor boat traffic. Is like a no-brainer and very obvious as to where NOT to go on a paddle board. Paddle boards tend to stay close to the shore just like kayaks unless they have a death wish or don't know what's what with motor boats. You paddle in water spaces where the motor boats don't go due to shallow water, rocks, and lake geography.
Thats not helping in the least, I had hoped a reasonable person would at a minimum have advocated for the paddle boarders to wear a safety noodle belt, or possible for all boaters to keep a noodle belt onboard so that in the event of an accident the belt could be tossed to anyone in the water.

Given your years of experience and number of noodle posts, I had hoped to possibly see something creative, like paddle boarders should ways carry a noodle to help them measure out a safe distance from the docks. 3 - 4 noodle lengths seems like a good minimum buffer.

Maybe something else,,,

Well its no fun at all if I have to come up with all the noodle inserts AND have to generate all the standards of the duel.

I might just as well get a lawn chair and sit at the Meredith launch and just watch all the boaters practicing their backing into U-shaped docks and such. At least that would be entertaining,,, NOT.
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:15 AM   #114
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Sue, I see only one way to settle this. A good old fashioned wild west duel. Here's how it will work. At high noon ITD and XCR show up at the Meredith docks in their boat of choice. Ten forum members are on the dock with 1 to 10 flash cards to flash their scores. Each boater shows their skill at holding a spot, docking, leaving the dock, and obstacle avoidance. I'll be on my paddle board and when they least expect it I'll dart out from behind the dock into their path. Winning score wins the thread argument.
I wouldn't hit ya!
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Old 08-01-2021, 02:16 PM   #115
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Lightbulb Keeping a Proper Watch...

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Correct me if Iím wrong, but does anyone else here notice great quantities of testosterone zinging across this thread?
...and nobody's mentioned "maintaining a proper watch".

...yet...
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Old 08-01-2021, 06:30 PM   #116
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..... paddleboarder ...... what paddleboarder ..... I didn't see NO paddleboarder ..... where is this paddleboarder and what the heck happened here! ...... ..... me-thinks I need another drink ..... and need to hit the throttle and get out of here ....... fast!
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:45 PM   #117
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Arrow Proper Watch...

At least, with a paddleboard, there is only one likely to suffer injury.
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:54 PM   #118
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At least, with a paddleboard, there is only one likely to suffer injury.
Plus the dog or the little kid who rides along as a passenger...OK going past my place, but not smart next to public docks where this thread stared.
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Old 08-12-2021, 08:43 AM   #119
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Well -- your going to love this one.

Last Saturday afternoon as we were leaving Meredith, when we got about halfway out of the NWZ I noticed something "bobbing" about 100 yards beyond the buoy. Couldn't quite discern what it could be until closer to the NWZ Buoy and figured out it was two young guys laying flat on their paddle boards and just swimming !!

Incoming boats to Meredith, especially larger cruisers would clearly be coming off plane at that range (with bow up) and never see these two. I could not just pass by without having words with the boys about the danger they were putting themselves in as well as others (done in a very polite tone - my wife is my witness) -- naturally I received some language back yet it appeared that 5 min after my departure, they must have grasped the situation and began heading back inside the NWZ--- of course the (2) 35 foot cruisers inbound may have helped too


and YES - these were Rental boards!
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Old 08-12-2021, 08:51 AM   #120
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Well -- your going to love this one.

Last Saturday afternoon as we were leaving Meredith, when we got about halfway out of the NWZ I noticed something "bobbing" about 100 yards beyond the buoy. Couldn't quite discern what it could be until closer to the NWZ Buoy and figured out it was two young guys laying flat on their paddle boards and just swimming !!

Incoming boats to Meredith, especially larger cruisers would clearly be coming off plane at that range (with bow up) and never see these two. I could not just pass by without having words with the boys about the danger they were putting themselves in as well as others (done in a very polite tone - my wife is my witness) -- naturally I received some language back yet it appeared that 5 min after my departure, they must have grasped the situation and began heading back inside the NWZ--- of course the (2) 35 foot cruisers inbound may have helped too


and YES - these were Rental boards!
You mean they didn't tell you that you don't own the lake?
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Old 08-12-2021, 09:40 AM   #121
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Again, I reject the notion that nearly anyone operating a 30 plus foot boat is incapable of seeing a 12 ft. long plank with a person on it.
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Old 08-12-2021, 09:46 AM   #122
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Again, I reject the notion that nearly anyone operating a 30 plus foot boat is incapable of seeing a 12 ft. long plank with a person on it.
See them or not -- laying flat on a paddleboard 100 yards just outside the NWZ & swimming does not make a whole lot of common sense to me. This was not off towards a shoreline by the way - it was dead center in the Bay. We all know that on a Saturday that area is choppy.

and YES, i know - they have every right to be there.
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Old 08-12-2021, 09:59 AM   #123
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BTW, you mention they were "young guys". What would your guess be on age? If they were 12 or 13 I might have done similar to you, maybe stop by and ask if everything was ok. If 17-18 I think I'd leave them alone.
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Old 08-12-2021, 10:53 AM   #124
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early teens !
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Old 08-13-2021, 09:58 PM   #125
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Well -- your going to love this one.

Last Saturday afternoon as we were leaving Meredith, when we got about halfway out of the NWZ I noticed something "bobbing" about 100 yards beyond the buoy. Couldn't quite discern what it could be until closer to the NWZ Buoy and figured out it was two young guys laying flat on their paddle boards and just swimming !!

Incoming boats to Meredith, especially larger cruisers would clearly be coming off plane at that range (with bow up) and never see these two. I could not just pass by without having words with the boys about the danger they were putting themselves in as well as others (done in a very polite tone - my wife is my witness) -- naturally I received some language back yet it appeared that 5 min after my departure, they must have grasped the situation and began heading back inside the NWZ--- of course the (2) 35 foot cruisers inbound may have helped too


and YES - these were Rental boards!
This evening we cruised up to Melvin Bay to watch the sunset. There were several boats watching with running lights on. As we decided to leave and cruise back I noticed 4 objects floating not far from us. We cruised over and discovered there were four paddle boards floating. One girl had a puppy on board. Another had two girls on one board. Another had a girl by herself. The other paddle board had a guy probably in his late 20's.. couldn't tell it was getting too dark. They were all out the way out in the middle of Melvin bay and Black island.

We stopped and told them that is very difficult to see them. "You are in a dangerous situation and said any watercraft must having nav lights after dusk." You guys have nothing to show that you out here in the middle of the bay. I suggested I would follow them to a closer area to shore. They said in a few words "don't worry we are ok and that they weren't concerned. And thank you for interest." But no need for your help!
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Old 08-14-2021, 08:38 AM   #126
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This evening we cruised up to Melvin Bay to watch the sunset. There were several boats watching with running lights on. As we decided to leave and cruise back I noticed 4 objects floating not far from us. We cruised over and discovered there were four paddle boards floating. One girl had a puppy on board. Another had two girls on one board. Another had a girl by herself. The other paddle board had a guy probably in his late 20's.. couldn't tell it was getting too dark. They were all out the way out in the middle of Melvin bay and Black island.

We stopped and told them that is very difficult to see them. "You are in a dangerous situation and said any watercraft must having nav lights after dusk." You guys have nothing to show that you out here in the middle of the bay. I suggested I would follow them to a closer area to shore. They said in a few words "don't worry we are ok and that they weren't concerned. And thank you for interest." But no need for your help!
You can't fix stupid. There is already a law that they must have a white light and through ignorance or sheer stupidity they ignore it.
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