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Old 03-21-2020, 11:09 AM   #1
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Default NH Electric Coop Broadband Petition

Please Sign the NHEC Broadband Petition

Each May the New Hampshire Electric Coop holds an election for directors. NHEC bylaws allow questions proposed by member petition to be included on the ballot. This petition requests that a question be included on the 2020 ballot which specifically adds “facilitating access to broadband Internet for members" to NHEC’s charter.

Sign Petition Here

Even before the coronavirus pandemic, it was increasingly obvious that lack of affordable, high-speed internet in rural New Hampshire is a serious impediment to communities’ economic development, education, interpersonal and community communication, access to fast-growing telehealth services, and everyday quality of life.

The current pandemic crisis brings home as never before how vital broadband communication is. When in-person contacts, meetings, school sessions, medical appointments, and even visits to the library and restaurants grind to a halt, the Internet is the glue that holds society together.

That gives this petition drive special urgency. NHEC members have an opportunity to do something concrete and meaningful to address this pressing need. We need your signature, to help make reliable, affordable broadband an achievable goal for small towns that are currently under served as well as areas controlled by expensive cable monopolies.
Let us explain why this petition drive is necessary.

Fiber broadband developers will tell you the most difficult part of providing Internet service in rural areas is not the cost of the fiber but rather the uncertainties in getting permission to attach to utility poles and associated costs. With control of its poles and rights-of-way, NHEC is uniquely positioned to facilitate the development of fiber to the homes and businesses of its member-owners by providing certainty and predictability to the attachment process.

NHEC doesn’t need to finance, own or operate a fiber network to facilitate others to develop systems. It just needs to make attaching fiber to NHEC poles straightforward, predictable and affordable.

This amendment would explicitly state, in the foundational documents of the organization, that NHEC sees facilitating the development of broadband as part of its core mission. Since it is member owned, NHEC has an opportunity and obligation to go beyond the base regulatory requirements imposed by the Public Utility Commission. The Coop should proactively encourage broadband developers to service its members.

Over 100 electric cooperatives across the country are actively involved in facilitating affordable (+/-$60/month) high speed (+/-100 Mbps up/down) fiber to the home. Shouldn’t NHEC join those cooperatives? If you believe this, please sign this electronic petition to put the question on the ballot and Vote YES on the question when you receive your ballot from NHEC in your May electric bill.

Concerned NHEC Members
Sign Petition Here

PS: Please pass a link to this website along to other NHEC members or post it to message boards or Facebook pages frequented by NHEC members. We need a lot of signatures
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Old 03-21-2020, 11:17 AM   #2
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Signed...we do have Xfinity here but a more affordable option would be welcomed.
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Old 03-21-2020, 11:29 AM   #3
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Signed...we do have Xfinity here but a more affordable option would be welcomed.
Ditto........
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Old 03-21-2020, 11:35 AM   #4
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Me too! A great thing all around
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Old 03-21-2020, 12:32 PM   #5
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Me three
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Old 03-26-2020, 12:01 PM   #6
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I'm confused.

"NHEC doesn’t need to finance, own or operate a fiber network to facilitate others to develop systems. It just needs to make attaching fiber to NHEC poles straightforward, predictable and affordable."



NHEC already has fiber on its poles; not its fiber, but fiber from telephone, cable, companies, and probably some segments for wireless companies.

I built a new house, here, on Moultonboro Neck Rd., and had to pay for the two poles on my property for the electric service. On the poles with metal plate that states NHEC, not the phone company. I also have Spectrum's cable and the phone company's cable (Consolidated Consumer). Obviously, those poles are connected to infrastructure poles on the street. Fiber has been used for years by the phone companies and cable companies, and placed on poles in the "right-of-way". I can remember when I worked for Fairpoint, when they bought NH, ME, and VT from Verizon, the millions spent by Fairpoint to put out fiber on the poles, and replace copper.

Is this petition suggesting to have NHEC install fiber on poles, even though it cannot use fiber to service electricity to homes and business????

Petition:
"BROADBAND QUESTION

Shall the New Hampshire Electric Cooperative amend Article II of its Certificate of Organization dated 18 July 1939 by adding the words “including facilitating access to broadband internet for members” to make the amended article read as follows:

The purposes for which the Association is formed are to generate, purchase, transmit and distribute electrical energy and to render any and all other services in connection therewith including facilitating access to broadband internet for members as provided in Section 3-a of the “Co-operative Marketing Law”.

Does that exclude non-members?

COOP "laws" are meaningless, relative to state and federal law, not to mention the PUC .

The biggest problems I had with poles, was who is going to own ... phone company or NHEC. Phone company had to be chased to get poles here, but to be installed by NHEC. Had to be pay for the poles, and the copper wire ($22/ft.) to NHEC, and I still had to pay "lease" fees to the phone company for my landline.

I'm getting @ 325-350 Mbps from Spectrum for broadband. I canceled landline, and went back Voice-Over-IP for phone with Spectrum; much less costly. I purposely had the three lines, cable, phone, electric on the electric poles for possible future market competitions; e.g., Gfast for the present DSL which is too slow for my liking.

Need to keep an eye on wireless (fixed and mobile) and satellite broadband (not today's), as well, for competition.

Need poles and fiber ... time and markets will tell.

If the bylaws mention install electric lines only, what's wrong with that, at this time? That doesn't mean it can stop other companies from installing on the poles, when the public good requires it. State and federal laws make that happen, and have.
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Old 03-26-2020, 03:14 PM   #7
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Access to Utility Poles for FTTH Providers

Federal:
47 U.S.C. § 224(d)(3). The Pole Attachment Act authorizes states to preempt federal regulation by electing to regulate pole attachments themselves, and 19 states have chosen this option. As of this writing (2013) the following states have elected to regulate pole attachments: Alaska, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, the District of Columbia, Idaho, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Utah, Vermont and Washington.

NH:
NEW HAMPSHIRE CODE OF ADMINISTRATIVE RULES
Puc 1300 CHAPTER Puc 1300 UTILITY POLE ATTACHMENTS

Puc 1301.01 Purpose. The purpose of Puc 1300, pursuant to the mandate of RSA 374:34-a, is to ensure rates, charges, terms, and conditions for pole attachments that are nondiscriminatory, just, and reasonable. Nothing in this rule shall be construed to supersede, overrule, or replace any other law, rule, or regulation, including municipal and state authority over public highways pursuant to RSA 231:159, et seq


RSA 374:34-a Pole Attachments. –
I. In this subdivision, a "pole" means any pole, duct, conduit, or right-of-way that is used for wire communications or electricity distribution and is owned in whole or in part by a public utility, including a rural electric cooperative for which a certificate of deregulation is on file with the commission pursuant to RSA 301:57.

II. Whenever a pole owner is unable to reach agreement with a party seeking pole attachments, the commission shall regulate and enforce rates, charges, terms, and conditions for such pole attachments, with regard to the types of attachments regulated under 47 U.S.C. section 224, to provide that such rates, charges, terms, and conditions are just and reasonable. This authority shall include but not be limited to the state regulatory authority referenced in 47 U.S.C. section 224(c).

IV. In exercising its authority under this subdivision, the commission shall consider the interests of the subscribers and users of the services offered via such attachments, as well as the interests of the consumers of any pole owner providing such attachments.

V. Nothing in this subdivision shall prevent parties from entering into pole attachment agreements voluntarily, without commission approval.

VII. The commission shall have the authority to hear and resolve complaints concerning rates, charges, terms, conditions, voluntary agreements, or any denial of access relative to pole attachments.
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Old Today, 09:30 AM   #8
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Adding third party fiber to poles almost always requires the electric company to move up the height of their wires which depending on the height of the pole may require a new pole, and in rural areas there’s a lot of old short poles that could need to be replaced with taller poles. This cost isn’t swallowed by the electric company. My guess is a third party wants to do this but doesn’t like the price from the coop to do their work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by longislander View Post
I'm confused.

"NHEC doesn’t need to finance, own or operate a fiber network to facilitate others to develop systems. It just needs to make attaching fiber to NHEC poles straightforward, predictable and affordable."



NHEC already has fiber on its poles; not its fiber, but fiber from telephone, cable, companies, and probably some segments for wireless companies.

I built a new house, here, on Moultonboro Neck Rd., and had to pay for the two poles on my property for the electric service. On the poles with metal plate that states NHEC, not the phone company. I also have Spectrum's cable and the phone company's cable (Consolidated Consumer). Obviously, those poles are connected to infrastructure poles on the street. Fiber has been used for years by the phone companies and cable companies, and placed on poles in the "right-of-way". I can remember when I worked for Fairpoint, when they bought NH, ME, and VT from Verizon, the millions spent by Fairpoint to put out fiber on the poles, and replace copper.

Is this petition suggesting to have NHEC install fiber on poles, even though it cannot use fiber to service electricity to homes and business????

Petition:
"BROADBAND QUESTION

Shall the New Hampshire Electric Cooperative amend Article II of its Certificate of Organization dated 18 July 1939 by adding the words “including facilitating access to broadband internet for members” to make the amended article read as follows:

The purposes for which the Association is formed are to generate, purchase, transmit and distribute electrical energy and to render any and all other services in connection therewith including facilitating access to broadband internet for members as provided in Section 3-a of the “Co-operative Marketing Law”.

Does that exclude non-members?

COOP "laws" are meaningless, relative to state and federal law, not to mention the PUC .

The biggest problems I had with poles, was who is going to own ... phone company or NHEC. Phone company had to be chased to get poles here, but to be installed by NHEC. Had to be pay for the poles, and the copper wire ($22/ft.) to NHEC, and I still had to pay "lease" fees to the phone company for my landline.

I'm getting @ 325-350 Mbps from Spectrum for broadband. I canceled landline, and went back Voice-Over-IP for phone with Spectrum; much less costly. I purposely had the three lines, cable, phone, electric on the electric poles for possible future market competitions; e.g., Gfast for the present DSL which is too slow for my liking.

Need to keep an eye on wireless (fixed and mobile) and satellite broadband (not today's), as well, for competition.

Need poles and fiber ... time and markets will tell.

If the bylaws mention install electric lines only, what's wrong with that, at this time? That doesn't mean it can stop other companies from installing on the poles, when the public good requires it. State and federal laws make that happen, and have.
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Old Today, 10:31 AM   #9
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"Adding third party fiber to poles almost always requires the electric company to move up the height of their wires ..."

Do not believe this statement to be accurate! Poles and their use, have evolved with time. Surely, electric lines were at the top of poles before fiber lines were even thought of.

SEE,

"Very few utility poles are used for just one utility. Poles that house multiple services, like power, telephone, and cable, are called joint poles and are covered by strict safety rules that separate the utilities spatially."

https://hackaday.com/2016/02/22/a-fi...-utility-pole/


https://www.aep.com/assets/docs/safe...20Pole_AEP.pdf





"On poles carrying both electrical and communications wiring, the electric power distribution lines and associated equipment are mounted at the top of the pole above the communication cables, for safety."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_pole


"3. Utility pole wires carry more than just electricity

You may have noticed that utility poles have many wires. But not all carry electricity. Usually, the top three wires — which are called primary conductors — carry most of the electricity on the pole."

https://www.electrocuted.com/2016/09...ty-pole-facts/
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Old Today, 11:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longislander View Post
"Adding third party fiber to poles almost always requires the electric company to move up the height of their wires ..."

Do not believe this statement to be accurate! Poles and their use, have evolved with time. Surely, electric lines were at the top of poles before fiber lines were even thought of.

SEE,

"Very few utility poles are used for just one utility. Poles that house multiple services, like power, telephone, and cable, are called joint poles and are covered by strict safety rules that separate the utilities spatially."

https://hackaday.com/2016/02/22/a-fi...-utility-pole/


https://www.aep.com/assets/docs/safe...20Pole_AEP.pdf





"On poles carrying both electrical and communications wiring, the electric power distribution lines and associated equipment are mounted at the top of the pole above the communication cables, for safety."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_pole


"3. Utility pole wires carry more than just electricity

You may have noticed that utility poles have many wires. But not all carry electricity. Usually, the top three wires — which are called primary conductors — carry most of the electricity on the pole."

https://www.electrocuted.com/2016/09...ty-pole-facts/
His point was that if you add another conductor that needs separation from the existing conductors, there needs to be room. You can't keep installing new technology conductors closer to the ground. So, the pole needs to grow or the existing non-electrical conductors need to be reworked on the pole. Either option will cost someone $$.
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Old Today, 11:53 AM   #11
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"His point was that if you add another conductor that needs separation from the existing conductors, there needs to be room."

Original comment:
"Adding third party fiber to poles almost always requires the electric company to move up the height of their wires"

His statement was moving electric lines up, not your interpretation.

Neither are close to accurate.

"So, the pole needs to grow or the existing non-electrical conductors need to be reworked on the pole

You're kidding right!!!!

I'm a retiree from the phone company. I was personally involved with "moving" all of the fiber that Fairpoint installed in NH, and most of Vermont; a good deal of Maine as well, to its garages for installation. Not saying I know everything about fiber installation, but not just bloviating either.
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Old Today, 12:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longislander View Post
"His point was that if you add another conductor that needs separation from the existing conductors, there needs to be room."

Original comment:
"Adding third party fiber to poles almost always requires the electric company to move up the height of their wires"

His statement was moving electric lines up, not your interpretation.

Neither are close to accurate.

"So, the pole needs to grow or the existing non-electrical conductors need to be reworked on the pole

You're kidding right!!!!

I'm a retiree from the phone company. I was personally involved with "moving" all of the fiber that Fairpoint installed in NH, and most of Vermont; a good deal of Maine as well, to its garages for installation. Not saying I know everything about fiber installation, but not just bloviating either.
You often cannot install a 4th technology to a pole by just stringing it below the CATV wiring that is below the TELCO wiring, which is below the electrical wiring. There may not be enough clearance above grade, so someone will need to pay to do some rearranging. It sounds like NHEC believes they will need to spend money on something that, while it may benefit some of their members, is not part of their core mission.
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Old Today, 01:23 PM   #13
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"You often cannot install a 4th technology ..."

Says who!

Please provide ... just one ... example, preferably an internet link of some credibility.

The cost of installation will be paid by the installer, if approved via agreement or the PUC if challenged.

The NHEC is not in the internet business. Most electric companies have decided not to jump into the fray ... wisely, in my humble opinion. They would/will use the existing wires, including the wiring in your house/busioness. Just plug into the AC connector on the wall!

https://broadbandnow.com/Powerline

Many years ago, I believe the last problem was getting around the transformer.

Maybe you should try bringing up mobile or fixed wireless or some other technology that has already been incorporated, in some areas, with no problem about "growing poles".

Why should NHEC spend COOP member money on something it will not use? Should they spend money on pavingf the roads the poles are on?


PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
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Old Today, 03:08 PM   #14
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Migaud, people need to take a break from their computers....
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Old Today, 03:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Migaud, people need to take a break from their computers....
Are we pointing out the threads of three pagers and more?
Are we talking about a break from the Covid-19 posts?
Are we talking about the political positioning posts/threads?

Or, are we trying to stifle opinions you don't like, like this thread?

Debate is healthy, in some schools of thought, especially if they include some facts, rather than just opinion.

Either way ... if you don't like reading threads that demonstrate differing opinions ... some with facts, not just opinion... move on! You've just ventured your opinion.

Maybe, start another petition in futility, as is what started this thread!
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Old Today, 05:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longislander View Post
"You often cannot install a 4th technology ..."

Says who!

Please provide ... just one ... example, preferably an internet link of some credibility.

The cost of installation will be paid by the installer, if approved via agreement or the PUC if challenged.

The NHEC is not in the internet business. Most electric companies have decided not to jump into the fray ... wisely, in my humble opinion. They would/will use the existing wires, including the wiring in your house/busioness. Just plug into the AC connector on the wall!

https://broadbandnow.com/Powerline

Many years ago, I believe the last problem was getting around the transformer.

Maybe you should try bringing up mobile or fixed wireless or some other technology that has already been incorporated, in some areas, with no problem about "growing poles".

Why should NHEC spend COOP member money on something it will not use? Should they spend money on pavingf the roads the poles are on?


PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
I'm not sure why you are all spun up. The NHEC apparently does not want yet another contractor on their poles. It is a simple as that!

I designed and engineered a perimeter intrusion detection system that uses SM fiber as a detector (along with other technologies). We installed it at three nuclear plants last year and are installing at three more this year. Our fiber infrastructure runs within 30' of the 230KV and 500KV lines coming out of the turbine building. I understand power and fiber!
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Old Today, 05:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
The NHEC apparently does not want yet another contractor on their poles. It is a simple as that!
Where did you find this? Is this part of the 2/3rds vote needed by NHEC members?

Quote:
Our fiber infrastructure runs within 30' of the 230KV and 500KV lines coming out of the turbine building. I understand power and fiber!
What does that have to do with electric/phone company poles?


Quote:
I designed and engineered a perimeter intrusion detection system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perime...tection_system

I'm impressed.

SM fiber v. Multimode fiber ... What financial analysis did you come with, for your application? Which do you think is more more apropos for FTTH?

Anyone can Google "words"

Did you put on poles ? Did you bury it? Or put on a fence?

Quote:
I understand power and fiber!
You haven't demonstrated that!

Which nuclear plants? Maybe it would help to review what you did.
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