Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Winnipesaukee Forums > General Discussion
Home Forums Gallery YouTube Channel Classifieds Links Blogs Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-18-2017, 08:35 AM   #1
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default 2.2 acre Big Island, Paugus Bay; proposed summer girl's camp

While many girl's and boy's summer camps have disappeared from Lake Winnipesaukee over the years, here's an interesting newspaper report about what seems like a well funded and well planned and well intentioned proposal to build a new girl's summer camp on 2.288 acre Big Island in Lake Winnipesaukee-Paugus Bay, located in the City of Laconia ... well, well, well!

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...oncern-support

"If this proposal doesn't move forward, as many as seven homes could be on the island under current zoning."

www.supremelending.com ... Dallas, Tx
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 10-19-2017 at 12:38 PM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2017, 11:41 AM   #2
jr616
Senior Member
 
jr616's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 52
Thanks: 2
Thanked 13 Times in 8 Posts
Default TY for sharing. Wait for it....

.............
jr616 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2017, 04:50 PM   #3
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 1,104
Thanks: 287
Thanked 303 Times in 189 Posts
Default

I don't see the camp as financially viable. Eventually, the isl;and will go to another use. Seven homes at, say, $500K each, with development costs, docks,etc isn't much profit. "I'm out", to coin a phrase.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2017, 05:01 PM   #4
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Iíd rather have a seasonal summer camp than 7 homes.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2017, 05:56 PM   #5
Major
Senior Member
 
Major's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 294
Thanks: 100
Thanked 117 Times in 60 Posts
Default Scott Everett

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descant View Post
I don't see the camp as financially viable. Eventually, the isl;and will go to another use. Seven homes at, say, $500K each, with development costs, docks,etc isn't much profit. "I'm out", to coin a phrase.
The owner of the property is phenomenally wealthy, so financial viability is not an issue. He's doing it out of the goodness of his heart, wanting to make a difference in the community. His intensions are purely altruistic, which is not very common today.
Major is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 10-18-2017, 05:59 PM   #6
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,567
Thanks: 403
Thanked 414 Times in 225 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Major View Post
The owner of the property is phenomenally wealthy, so financial viability is not an issue. He's doing it out of the goodness of his heart, wanting to make a difference in the community. His intensions are purely altruistic, which is not very common today.
AWESOME. Love to hear this!

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
thinkxingu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2017, 10:53 PM   #7
8gv
Senior Member
 
8gv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 863
Thanks: 11
Thanked 246 Times in 143 Posts
Default

Out of curiosity, where does the sewerage go?
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 06:55 AM   #8
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 952
Thanks: 116
Thanked 85 Times in 58 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
Out of curiosity, where does the sewerage go?
Everyone knows girls don't poop.
Biggd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 07:02 AM   #9
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
Everyone knows girls don't poop.


Wow we can go sooo many places with this but itís a family site.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 07:30 AM   #10
SIKSUKR
Senior Member
 
SIKSUKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,999
Thanks: 214
Thanked 883 Times in 497 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
Out of curiosity, where does the sewerage go?
Same place as all the other hundreds of islands.
__________________
SIKSUKR
SIKSUKR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 08:47 AM   #11
AC2717
Senior Member
 
AC2717's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Maynard, MA & Paugus Bay
Posts: 1,999
Thanks: 510
Thanked 215 Times in 156 Posts
Default

one issue that does come to mind is that if it being a camp, although I like the idea, I am not a fan of a conferenece center. Also the camp would be a lot of extra traffic to a very busy area on the lake, being across from it, I am just thinking now of all the paddle boards, kayaks, canoes, swimming groups and other water activites, that could increase danger, still there are markers all around the islands due to rocks.

I dunno jury is out for me, I am more curious about the end game if the camp does not sustain, on the other hand you could have 7 new properties with 7 new docks and more boating traffic, and the water is very shallow on the Weirs BLVD side so how far will docks be out into the water on that side.
and the SDS side narrow and shallow in spots so having to extend docks out would really cut down the traffic on that side of the island (possibly making a case for a no wake zone), forcing it to the other side and making an already busy boating lane even more

My question is the properly dividable, yes there is room for buildable lots, but is the subdivision already approved from the town? does it have to be? and can the town hold it to just 1-3 lots?

This is a tough call for sure.
__________________
Capt. of the "No Worries"
AC2717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 09:12 AM   #12
Orion
Senior Member
 
Orion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cow Island
Posts: 870
Thanks: 505
Thanked 151 Times in 76 Posts
Default and mainland properties

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIKSUKR View Post
Same place as all the other hundreds of islands.
.....and mainland shorefront properties. Though the size/placement of the septic system sustaining a camp on such a small island would seem to be an issue. Not to mention the Laconia water intake is right near there.
Orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 09:53 AM   #13
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 1,104
Thanks: 287
Thanked 303 Times in 189 Posts
Default

I wondered about sewer/septic. The LDA article said utilities are piped to the island. They did not say underwater cable. Piped to me could indicate water ad sewer. Without sewer, I would expect some sort of common septic/leach field in the center of the island as there are setback requirements from shore line, significantly reducing land available for septic systems.
The current owner may be generous and wealthy, but Ithink we all know of instances where the trustees in future years squandered the trust fund, the plan failed and the municipality ended up with a partially developed project, i.e. unmarketable.
Who knows the septic/sewer plan?
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 10:07 AM   #14
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hooksett, NH & Bear Island, NH
Posts: 1,725
Thanks: 166
Thanked 1,136 Times in 417 Posts
Default

Since part of the proposal is to "pipe in" utilities to the island I have to believe that would include sewer/water etc.. as 2.2 acres does not seem like sufficient enough space to install private utilities capable of handling the load of a conference center and or girls camp. As is to there is not going to be a lot of room to work with and it would be even more complicated if you consider a well and septic and the associated setback requirements into the mix.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 11:47 AM   #15
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default

... some more info .... a special exception, development report, September 22, 2017, application with drawings, maps, photos, and details ..... a totally super-duper plan...... JUST APPROVE IT ........ for the 'BIG ISLAND CAMP', or some such summer camp name such as 'CAMP LACONIA' as yet to be determined and named appropriately by the producer/director of this island project!

http://www.laconianh.gov/AgendaCente...31?fileID=1589

Apparently, the utility lines and pipes; water, sewer and electricity were installed underground, under the lake, using a drilling process called 'directional boring' ... reference: a NH public utilities commission pdf, Feb 13, 2015, Big Island utilities installation application hooking up with Laconia city water and city sewer and local electric.

With "piping laid under the lake", I don't know, but maybe this makes Big Island the only Winnipesaukee island where flushing the toilet travels the septic waste all the way, off island, to the waste water treatment plant, wherever that is. Sort of gives new meaning to that old camp message carved onto many a camp bathroom wall that goes; "Flush twice, it's a long way to the kitchen." On Big Island, they can honestly say: "Flush twice, it's a long way to the waste water treatment plant."

Have to wonder if Big Island was also hooked up to cable-tv with high speed internet and an olde fashioned telephone land line?

You know what's a lot of fun ....having an olde fashioned, crank-up telephone, internal camp phone system, with old working phones that pre-date the rotary dial telephone, where you get to count the number of crank turns .... could be a very nice touch for an island summer camp, hidden away on beautiful Lake Winnipesaukee ...... and could go something like this ....... "four ringie-dingies = waterfront, three ringie-dingies = arts & crafts, two ringie-dingies = dining room/kitchen, and one ringie-dingie = office"...... hellooooooooo!

Do not see a tennis court in the island layout plan ..... but, maybe an outdoor pickle-ball court, which is one third the size of a tennis court ....could be a go? Plus, pickle-ball is much easier to quickly pickle up than tennis for the first time player.

"If this proposal doesn't move forward, as many as seven homes could be on the island under existing zoning." ....and, permanent water, sewer, and electricity seems like a game changer.... will the Laconia Fire Dept want Big Island to have a fire hydrant?
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 10-27-2017 at 05:45 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 11:57 AM   #16
Orion
Senior Member
 
Orion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cow Island
Posts: 870
Thanks: 505
Thanked 151 Times in 76 Posts
Default sounds good

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
Since part of the proposal is to "pipe in" utilities to the island I have to believe that would include sewer/water etc.. as 2.2 acres does not seem like sufficient enough space to install private utilities capable of handling the load of a conference center and or girls camp. As is to there is not going to be a lot of room to work with and it would be even more complicated if you consider a well and septic and the associated setback requirements into the mix.
Running all utilities on/off island certainly solves the problem. That said, seems like a wonderful project for the girls and my hat's off to the owner/developer willing to do such.
Orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 04:09 PM   #17
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 1,104
Thanks: 287
Thanked 303 Times in 189 Posts
Default Simply amazing

I'm amazed that they could get permits and run all the pipes and cables to Big Islands and nobody posted here "Guess what's happening at Big Island". The Forum watchdogs have been asleep, it would seem.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2017, 05:14 PM   #18
Outdoorsman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 478
Thanks: 44
Thanked 97 Times in 64 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descant View Post
I'm amazed that they could get permits and run all the pipes and cables to Big Islands and nobody posted here "Guess what's happening at Big Island". The Forum watchdogs have been asleep, it would seem.
Well it's not like they want to put in a bike path/walking trail on state owned property. THAT would be outrageous.
Outdoorsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 05:13 PM   #19
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default What happened: October 16, 2017, zoning board meeting

City of Laconia, Zoning Board of Adjustment, Monday, October 16, 2017, starting at 7-pm, minutes:

http://www.laconianh.gov/AgendaCente.../_10162017-519 .... 8:10 to 10:01-pm, time devoted to Big Island proposal .... actually, after set-up preparation ..... from 8:28 to 10:01-pm

What happened; after about 90-minutes of Big Island hearings, all four members of the board who were present (zoning has 5-regular members) voted in favor, 4-0, to continue the proposed Big Island application to next month; Monday, Nov 20, 7-pm, at City Hall.
.........

My editorial opinion, here!

Realistically, is it possible for the loon nesting spot to co-exist on a 2.2-acre island with the proposed girl's summer camp and conference use? Probably not, but all I know is the loons can go flap their wings, and move on to some other island. Loons tend to be very large duck birdies that are very aggressive and hard core fighters. So, my editorial opinion is to build a pickle-ball court, dimension; 20' x 44' rubberized asphalt in 32-different designer colors, that would be used by four pickle-ballers at the same time .....playing pickle-ball doubles........ and, just say good-bye to the loons......and hello to the pickle-ballers! The loons are very tough, mean, hard core fighters that share space with eagles and Canada geese......all three species can be very aggressive and the loons will go find themselves another happy spot on the lake. Hello campers playing pickle-ball ...... and, see-u-later, loonie-birds (sound of the loon, here)!

Pickle-ball is just too much fun! Evict the loons, and put up a pickle-ball court! Better yet, make it two pickle-ball courts, side by side, reddish-orange color with white lines, similar colors as the clay, Roland Garros tennis court in Paris. This would be an extremely happening, waterfront, pickle-ball venue, and get lots and lots of use by campers and conference goers ......... two side-by-side, outdoor, reddish-orange w/ white lines pickle-ball courts!

Suggest you check out the two indoor pickle-ball courts in Laconia, at the old red brick Community Center, close to the High School, and next to Rite Aid. People could row, kayak, canoe, sail, paddle-board, or swim out to Big Island for a conference at 'CAMP LACONIA' and go hit the pickle-ball court while at the conference!
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 10-26-2017 at 12:50 PM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 06:12 AM   #20
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default

From today's November 11, 2017 Union Leader (and Sunday's front page, below the fold) by Bea Lewis ...

http://www.newhampshire.com/Texan-wa...amp-in-Laconia

...... is Big Island in Paugus Bay the only island, bridged or no bridge in Lake Winnipesaukee that has full utilities; water-sewer-electricity-fiber optic? What other island has all these utilities installed? Here in the lakes region of New Hampshire, most everyone off island, on the main land, has electricity and phone lines available but to have town water and town sewer lines available seems very luxurious ....... town water and town sewer ...... what a marvel of modern 21st-century engineering?
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 11-13-2017 at 09:02 PM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 08:10 AM   #21
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Mr Everett seems to be extremely genuine with his efforts to build an camp for underprivileged girls. As long as there is no impact to the environment and the decibel level is under the standards I have no problem with this and admire his philanthropic quest. Also the current zoning of subdividing the island into 5 homes is a much worse alternative.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 10:06 AM   #22
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,567
Thanks: 403
Thanked 414 Times in 225 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2665 View Post
Mr Everett seems to be extremely genuine with his efforts to build an camp for underprivileged girls. As long as there is no impact to the environment and the decibel level is under the standards I have no problem with this and admire his philanthropic quest. Also the current zoning of subdividing the island into 5 homes is a much worse alternative.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
Agreed, and he seems to be following all the rules in good faith.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
thinkxingu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 11:34 AM   #23
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default Monday, Nov 20, 7-pm, Laconia City Hall, Rm 200A

Zoning Board of Adjustment: Monday night, November 20, starts at 7-pm, Laconia City Hall, Conference Room 200A

'Zoning Board To Consider Big Island Proposal Monday' by Rick Green

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...sal-monday-480
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 06:07 AM   #24
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default ..... holy smokes ... 4-0 against Big Island girl's camp

.......holy smokes...... the proposed Big Island girl's summer camp goes down in flames ...... last night, the Laconia Zoning Board of Adjustment voted NO with a vote of 4-against, and 0-in favor ..... big noisy, highly opinionated meeting turn-out as reported in the newspaper ..... (no, I did not attend)

......report in todays LaDaSun ..... will post link later on?

...... is just tough nuggies and crummy cookies for the Big Island girl's summer camp & conference center!
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 11-22-2017 at 11:39 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 06:36 AM   #25
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,567
Thanks: 403
Thanked 414 Times in 225 Posts
Default

The closest residential development is South Down Shores. I wonder what percent of the residents in attendance were from there and if they used their "huge war chest" to fight this?

In either case, let's hope it doesn't backfire with a bunch of new development which sounds like might be worse.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
thinkxingu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 07:18 AM   #26
TiltonBB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 1,078
Thanks: 164
Thanked 578 Times in 217 Posts
Default Article from the Laconia Sun

Laconia Sun Article

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...plans-rejected
TiltonBB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 08:13 AM   #27
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post


Some of the cases for safety, boat traffic and light pollution in my opinion are a little weak. I thought the camp and conference center was a much better alternative. Now Iím sure Mr Everett as a businessman in not going to want to lose the money invested and will now probably build homes allowed in current zoning laws which will create more safety, boating issues and light pollution than the camp would have.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 08:18 AM   #28
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 952
Thanks: 116
Thanked 85 Times in 58 Posts
Default

I don't have a home in this area but if I did I would be against it also. Paugus Bay is a busy area in the summer as it is. This project would make it much worse, JMO. I won't even take my boat into Paugus bay on summer weekends. I waste enough time sitting in traffic during the week in my car I'm not going to sit in boat traffic too.
Biggd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 09:47 AM   #29
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,567
Thanks: 403
Thanked 414 Times in 225 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
I don't have a home in this area but if I did I would be against it also. Paugus Bay is a busy area in the summer as it is. This project would make it much worse, JMO. I won't even take my boat into Paugus bay on summer weekends. I waste enough time sitting in traffic during the week in my car I'm not going to sit in boat traffic too.
What would be worse, a camp with a boat going between marina and island or five boats going all over the Bay and channel?

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
thinkxingu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 09:56 AM   #30
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
I don't have a home in this area but if I did I would be against it also. Paugus Bay is a busy area in the summer as it is. This project would make it much worse, JMO. I won't even take my boat into Paugus bay on summer weekends. I waste enough time sitting in traffic during the week in my car I'm not going to sit in boat traffic too.
In your opinion which would you think is worse, the camp/conference center or 5 homes?

I agree Paugus is already crowded especially on holidays but there is going to be a change to the Big Island I'm sure he is not going to let his 2M investment just sit there.

Have a happy Thanksgiving Biggd.
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 09:56 AM   #31
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 952
Thanks: 116
Thanked 85 Times in 58 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkxingu View Post
What would be worse, a camp with a boat going between marina and island or five boats going all over the Bay and channel?

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
Those homes are going to be pretty pricey. Most of the pricey waterfront properties on the lake are owned by wealthy people that rarely use them. There are a couple of multi million dollar properties in my neighborhood that rarely have any visitors. I think a camp would draw much more traffic but I have no dog in this fight so that's just my opinion.
Happy thanksgiving to all!
Biggd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 10:12 AM   #32
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
Those homes are going to be pretty pricey. Most of the pricey waterfront properties on the lake are owned by wealthy people that rarely use them. There are a couple of multi million dollar properties in my neighborhood that rarely have any visitors. I think a camp would draw much more traffic but I have no dog in this fight so that's just my opinion.
Happy thanksgiving to all!
Hopefully whatever he decides it will have the least possible impact to the lake, I thought his intentions were genuine so I am hoping he continues to think about the lake first before a profit.
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 10:22 AM   #33
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 952
Thanks: 116
Thanked 85 Times in 58 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2665 View Post
Hopefully whatever he decides it will have the least possible impact to the lake, I thought his intentions were genuine so I am hoping he continues to think about the lake first before a profit.
I also think the tax bill on 5 pricey homes would be quite a bit larger than that of a girls camp. And we all know Laconia needs more tax dollars to waste.
Biggd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 10:24 AM   #34
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
I also think the tax bill on 5 pricey homes would be quite a bit larger than that of a girls camp. And we all know Laconia needs more tax dollars to waste.
Now that just made my morning!!!
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 11:11 AM   #35
jetskier
Senior Member
 
jetskier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Reading, MA and South Down Shores
Posts: 752
Thanks: 22
Thanked 126 Times in 73 Posts
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkxingu View Post
The closest residential development is South Down Shores. I wonder what percent of the residents in attendance were from there and if they used their "huge war chest" to fight this?

In either case, let's hope it doesn't backfire with a bunch of new development which sounds like might be worse.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
There was only one person from South Down and the legal fund is for specific use (read not to oppose the Big Island)

Jetskier
jetskier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 11:14 AM   #36
Tyler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 112
Thanks: 13
Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
I won't even take my boat into Paugus bay on summer weekends.
I thought you were on Lake Waukewan?
Tyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 12:06 PM   #37
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,567
Thanks: 403
Thanked 414 Times in 225 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetskier View Post
There was only one person from South Down and the legal fund is for specific use (read not to oppose the Big Island)

Jetskier
Thanks JS. What were the main issues (of the ones listed) people focused on?

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
thinkxingu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 12:11 PM   #38
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkxingu View Post
The closest residential development is South Down Shores. I wonder what percent of the residents in attendance were from there and if they used their "huge war chest" to fight this?

In either case, let's hope it doesn't backfire with a bunch of new development which sounds like might be worse.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
Watch what you wish for, those who opposed the camp!! The Big Island is in play and there will be some type of change no doubt and now I believe it is going to be the worse of the two alternatives.
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 01:30 PM   #39
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default

As far as I found out, looking at all the Winnipesaukee islands, only Big Island and Christmas Island, both in Paugus Bay, Laconia have underground utility service with water, sewer, electricity, and fiber optic.

While Christmas Island, also or previously known as Plummer Island, is a bridged island with automobile use that is so close to the Laconia main land that it is almost on the main land, none of the larger bridged, automobile access islands, Black Cat, Long, or Governors have community water and sewer.

So, 2.2-acre Big Island and a 1950-constructed seasonal home were purchased in 2012 for $725,000 and supposedly about $two-mil has been spent, total, including the purchase price and water/sewer/electricity/fiber optic installation and legal/professional fees. So, is this the end for the proposed Camp 'Big Island', an island summer girl's camp plus conference center located on Paugus Bay, Lake Winnipesaukee in Laconia, NH?

So, what happens next ...... does it get sold directly to the developer of Christmas Island for similar townhouse development, or does it get listed in the local real estate market or what? Maybe a very nice single family, 2.2-acre island home is constructed that gets infrequent use by its' out-of-state owner ....... who knows? ... what the heck happens next?
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 11-22-2017 at 04:01 PM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 01:48 PM   #40
PaugusBayFireFighter
Senior Member
 
PaugusBayFireFighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Paugus Bay, Waltham
Posts: 826
Thanks: 354
Thanked 668 Times in 261 Posts
Default

He tried. I hope he builds as many houses as the zoning allows.
__________________
Nullius in verba
PaugusBayFireFighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 04:14 PM   #41
Broken Glass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atkinson,NH/Rattlesnake Island
Posts: 147
Thanks: 282
Thanked 60 Times in 24 Posts
Default Nimby

The NIMBY crowd won, and the benevolent gentleman with youngsters in mind loses. A real shame. What's with people anyway????
Broken Glass is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 04:29 PM   #42
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broken Glass View Post
The NIMBY crowd won, and the benevolent gentleman with youngsters in mind loses. A real shame. What's with people anyway????


They think the island is going to stay the way it is now but we all know change is evident heís not going to let his investment go down the toilet and the houses will be built


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 07:15 PM   #43
jetskier
Senior Member
 
jetskier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Reading, MA and South Down Shores
Posts: 752
Thanks: 22
Thanked 126 Times in 73 Posts
Post Lots of moving parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkxingu View Post
Thanks JS. What were the main issues (of the ones listed) people focused on?

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
The predominant concerns came from the folks on Paugus Park Road. I can give you my personal opinion and some of the back channel.

I don't think that Mr. Everett really engaged the local community and there were a lot of moving parts to this one. Fundamentally, if the ZBA approved the plan it would give Mr. Everett broad license in the use of the property. I think that was a very big ask.

Personally, I think that a 2 acre little island is not really a good site for a summer camp. It is just too small and isolated to provide a good experience. I laud Mr. Everett for his intent, but he might be better served to do this on a larger parcel that is more accessible elsewhere.

Jetskier
jetskier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 07:26 PM   #44
Outdoorsman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 478
Thanks: 44
Thanked 97 Times in 64 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
As far as I found out, looking at all the Winnipesaukee islands, only Big Island and Christmas Island, both in Paugus Bay, Laconia have underground utility service with water, sewer, electricity, and fiber optic.

While Christmas Island, also or previously known as Plummer Island, is a bridged island with automobile use that is so close to the Laconia main land that it is almost on the main land, none of the larger bridged, automobile access islands, Black Cat, Long, or Governors have community water and sewer.

So, 2.2-acre Big Island and a 1950-constructed seasonal home were purchased in 2012 for $725,000 and supposedly about $two-mil has been spent, total, including the purchase price and water/sewer/electricity/fiber optic installation and legal/professional fees. So, is this the end for the proposed Camp 'Big Island', an island summer girl's camp plus conference center located on Paugus Bay, Lake Winnipesaukee in Laconia, NH?

So, what happens next ...... does it get sold directly to the developer of Christmas Island for similar townhouse development, or does it get listed in the local real estate market or what? Maybe a very nice single family, 2.2-acre island home is constructed that gets infrequent use by its' out-of-state owner ....... who knows? ... what the heck happens next?
Sometimes I wonder who is writing these relevant posts.
Outdoorsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 07:58 PM   #45
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default ...... Timber Island Summer Camp, ages 8-15

With 136-acres, Scott Everett should definitely take a good, long look at Timber Island in Gilford as a potential home to a summer camp. It got sold in about 2001 for about 1.25-million dollars, has just three seasonal camps with two acres each, and 130-acres of old growth forest, conservation easement land.

In about 2001, the State of New Hampshire had the first opportunity to purchase it and said no thanks. Like, why O why would the State of NH want to purchase a 136-acre, totally unoccupied and totally forested island, at an extremely low price, centrally located in Lake Winnipesaukee? To make it a state park, or a state forest, or a youth summer camp .....or, some combination of all three ..... that's why.

Timber Island is a very attractive spot with a number of natural sandy beaches, and has many, many 'no trespassing-keep out-this means you!' signs posted, all 'round the island. It pays almost no property taxes, has no occupants save for the three seasonal camps, gets no use, does nothing, and serves basically no purpose other than being a vacant primeval, old growth forest type of an island that is super nice to look at, or for anchoring your boat up close, off shore .... without going ashore.

It is sort of like the 'Area 51' of Lake Winnipesaukee.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 08:20 AM   #46
SAMIAM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 2,246
Thanks: 121
Thanked 841 Times in 309 Posts
Default

The girls camp would have been tax free because it would be serving the "underprivileged"
Five million $ homes would provide well over 100K in taxes to the city of Laconia with no draw on services...schools,social services,fire,police,snow plowing etc.
No wonder they torched the idea.
SAMIAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 09:29 AM   #47
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default

Is there a federal income tax expert on board here?

Maybe Big Island could be used for wild loon habitation and donated to www.loon.org, based in Moultonborough, and the island's entire $two-mil dollar cost basis could be deducted from personal federal taxes going forward for the next 17-years til it's all used up? Does not seem all that loonie? ...... :

With Big Island wired to Metrocast cable tv, the loons could spend hours and hours, all day and all night, watching the Laconia and Gilford local government meetings like the zoning board and the school board in action, live and the endless replays.

Save the loons by donating the island, and to heck with the local Laconia property tax.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 11-23-2017 at 10:03 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 10:01 AM   #48
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Is there a federal income tax expert on board here?

Maybe Big Island could be used for wild loon habitation and donated to www.loon.org, based in Moultonborough, and the island's entire $two-mil dollar cost basis could be deducted from personal federal taxes going forward for the next 17-years til it's all used up? Does not seem all that loonie? ...... :

With Big Island wired to Metrocast cable tv, the loons could spend hours and hours, all day and all night, watching the Laconia and Gilford local government meetings like the zoning board and the school board in action, live and the endless replays.

Save the loons and the heck with the local property tax.


Even if donated the recipient will still have the property tax liability and it will be taxed on the new assessed value based on the transfer and taking into account the value placed by the owner donating and the amount being deducted on is tax return.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 11:56 AM   #49
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 285
Thanks: 77
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Default

FLL--like Outdoorsman, I appreciate your great posts on this topic.

On your tax question, I'm not an expert, but a pretty good amateur. Mr. Everett would be able to deduct the value of his investment from his income when calculating federal income taxes. Assuming he's at the top bracket of 39.6%, let's call that cash back in his pocket of .396 x 2.2= $871K.

(Note--central provisions of the Republican tax plan now under debate would reduce this number, i.e. it would be less beneficial for individuals to make charitable donations)

To Joey's point, I disagree. If Everett has given away the property, he no longer would be liable for any taxes on it.

So Everett would have done a great thing for the lake, but he cannot recover his investment by donating the property.

I think he would have been better off with one of your other ideas--buying a camp that already existed.
FlyingScot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 06:35 PM   #50
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
FLL--like Outdoorsman, I appreciate your great posts on this topic.



On your tax question, I'm not an expert, but a pretty good amateur. Mr. Everett would be able to deduct the value of his investment from his income when calculating federal income taxes. Assuming he's at the top bracket of 39.6%, let's call that cash back in his pocket of .396 x 2.2= $871K.



(Note--central provisions of the Republican tax plan now under debate would reduce this number, i.e. it would be less beneficial for individuals to make charitable donations)



To Joey's point, I disagree. If Everett has given away the property, he no longer would be liable for any taxes on it.



So Everett would have done a great thing for the lake, but he cannot recover his investment by donating the property.



I think he would have been better off with one of your other ideas--buying a camp that already existed.


I did not say Everett would pay the property tax. The recipient/charity would be responsible for the property taxes as the new owner. Just because the charity owns the property does not make it exempt from paying the property tax.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 10:56 PM   #51
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 285
Thanks: 77
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2665 View Post
I did not say Everett would pay the property tax. The recipient/charity would be responsible for the property taxes as the new owner. Just because the charity owns the property does not make it exempt from paying the property tax.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
Oops, sorry--I should read more carefully.

But with all due respect, especially after my misreading of your post--If the recipient is a real charity, and I believe the previously cited Loon Preservation Committee would qualify here, they will not need to pay property taxes.

https://www.nhmunicipal.org/TownAndCity/Article/60
FlyingScot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2017, 06:17 AM   #52
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default

Just seems like such a bad decision by the Laconia Zoning Board of Adjustment to be voting 4-0 against the proposed Big Island girl's summer camp!

Something tells me that a Motorcycle Wall of Death event for Motorcycle Week set up on Big Island https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5Ztnli7W0g would have a better chance to be approved ...... oh well .....is just too bad?

(Will fix you tube link later.)
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2017, 07:26 AM   #53
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
Oops, sorry--I should read more carefully.



But with all due respect, especially after my misreading of your post--If the recipient is a real charity, and I believe the previously cited Loon Preservation Committee would qualify here, they will not need to pay property taxes.



https://www.nhmunicipal.org/TownAndCity/Article/60


There is an application process and itís not guaranteed they will be exempt from property tax. Given the history of Laconia and property taxes i would say it is highly unlikely they would give up the tax revenue from a piece of property that would be assessed near 2M. That is roughly 30k yearly for the city to forgo.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2017, 08:35 AM   #54
TiltonBB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 1,078
Thanks: 164
Thanked 578 Times in 217 Posts
Default Requirements for ZBA approval

The Laconia Zoning Board of Adjustment does a good job making decisions that are sometimes controversial and unpopular. They cannot just say "yes" because some proposal seems like a good idea.

There is a specific list of requirements that have to be met to grant a variance. The list is below. It should be noted that ALL of the 5 listed have to be met to grant a variance.

(1) The variance will not be contrary to the public interest; AND
(2) The spirit of the ordinance is observed; AND
(3) Substantial justice is done; AND
(4) The value of surrounding properties are not diminished; AND
(5) Literal enforcement of the provisions of the ordinance would result in an unnecessary hardship.
(A) For purposes of this subparagraph, “unnecessary hardship” means that, owing to special conditions
of the property that distinguish it from other properties in the area:
i. No fair and substantial relationship exists between the general public purposes of
the ordinance provision and the specific application of that provision to the
property; and
ii. The proposed use is a reasonable use. OR
(B) If the criteria in subparagraph (A) are not established, an unnecessary hardship will be deemed to
exist if, and only if, owning to special conditions of the property that distinguish it from other
properties in the area, the property cannot be reasonably used in strict conformance with the
ordinance, and a variance is therefore necessary to enable a reasonable use of it.
The definition of “unnecessary hardship” set forth in subparagraph (5) shall apply whether the provision of the
ordinance from which a variance is sought is a restriction on use, a dimensional or other limitation on a
permitted use, or any other requirement of the ordinance.

Last edited by TiltonBB; 11-24-2017 at 11:37 AM.
TiltonBB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2017, 10:54 AM   #55
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 285
Thanks: 77
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Default

Thanks, Tilton. Very interesting and helpful. Difficult to see how the camp meets paragraph 4 if many of the neighbors protest, or meets 5 under any circumstance.

It may be ironic that Laconia is friendlier to motorcycles than a girls' camp, but for zoning to have any value at all, the ZBA needs to be consistent with the rules.
FlyingScot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2017, 01:19 PM   #56
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default 2.2 acre Big Island, Paugus Bay; proposed summer girl's camp

Tilton thank you for your post. I have a question you could probably answer. Is what Mr Everett is looking to accomplish a variance or zoning change? In my neck of the woods they are two different issues and handled differently. In a zoning change the public may make their opposing arguments at a hearing and their approval in not required. However for a variance the approval of the neighbors is required


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2017, 02:47 PM   #57
TiltonBB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 1,078
Thanks: 164
Thanked 578 Times in 217 Posts
Default Special Exception

If the island was zoned to allow the proposed use he would not have to go to the ZBA for an exception. He was asking the ZBA for a Special Exception to the existing zoning regulation.

From the November 20, 2017 ZBA Agenda:

CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARINGS, CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE VOTE Note: The
Purpose Of This Agenda Section Is For The Board To Continue The Public Hearing For The
Applicant And The Public To Provide Input. The Board May Also Deliberate The Application,
Decide And Conduct A Final Vote At This Time.
ZO2017-0030 - Big Island Paugus Bay Special Exception (PDF)
Applicant seeks a Special Exception for the use of the property as a Conference
Center MSL 263-178-1
TiltonBB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2017, 06:07 PM   #58
Bear Islander
Senior Member
 
Bear Islander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bear Island
Posts: 1,646
Thanks: 21
Thanked 322 Times in 157 Posts
Default

A 2.2 acre island is pretty small for a children's camp. There are two camps on Bear Island, one is 40 acres the other 70 acres.

To keep it in perspective the field area at Fenway Park is 2.35 acres.
Bear Islander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 08:03 PM   #59
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Interesting opinion letter from the owner of Little Island on Paugus Bay who is also on the planning board

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/opinion/letters


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 07:54 AM   #60
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default

As you know, the Laconia Zoning Board of Adjustment voted 4-against and zero-in favor, with one member absent, to oppose the proposed Big Island girls camp .... .that seems like a total agreement by the board to say "no way" ....which to me seems like a real shame ..... but that is the way it goes in Laconia.
.........

There was a recent article in the Laconia Daily Sun saying the City of Laconia has changed its' building safety code to require new construction of cluster buildings, similar to the new Christmas Island clusters to now have a sprinkler system, as opposed to just a fire detection system, and it mentioned that the price for constructing a fire sprinkler system has come down.

This new rule could maybe have an impact on building a Big Island cluster if the existing, under the lake, water line can not supply enough water to meet the fire sprinkler needs.

Just saying?
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 09:00 AM   #61
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Iím a little confused by the opinion letter. I know the board voted 4-0 but the signature on the letter says he is a member of the planning board.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 09:31 AM   #62
TiltonBB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 1,078
Thanks: 164
Thanked 578 Times in 217 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2665 View Post
Iím a little confused by the opinion letter. I know the board voted 4-0 but the signature on the letter says he is a member of the planning board[/url]
Yes, he is a member of the Planning Board. The 4-0 vote was taken by the Zoning Board of Adjustment. Again, the board cannot vote their opinion or approve things that seem like a good idea. They can only vote on set criteria and if the project does not meet all of the requirements they have to vote it down, despite what their personal feelings might be.
TiltonBB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 10:03 AM   #63
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
Yes, he is a member of the Planning Board. The 4-0 vote was taken by the Zoning Board of Adjustment. Again, the board cannot vote their opinion or approve things that seem like a good idea. They can only vote on set criteria and if the project does not meet all of the requirements they have to vote it down, despite what their personal feelings might be.


Thank you for clarifying. I appreciate it.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 01:44 PM   #64
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...nd-summer-camp

The Big Island, Paugus Bay, Lake Winnipesaukee, Laconia, girl's summer camp is looking for another opportunity to present its' proposed seasonal girl's summer camp/conference center before the Laconia Zoning Board of Adjustment.

https://www.laconianh.gov/AgendaCent...33?fileID=2287

December 19, 2017

RE: Rehearing Request - Big Island Conference Center/Summer Camp

"1. Request for disqualification of Ms. Perley"

"After closing the public hearing on November 20, 2017, Ms. Perley revealed that she had prejudged the application and was not indifferent in her review."
............

This rehearing request is lengthy, detailed, very well written, and very well prepared, and worth reading carefully just for educational purposes, whether you overall agree or disagree with the proposed girl's summer camp and conference center on Big Island.
............

This request for a rehearing will be heard by the Laconia Zoning Board of Adjustment on Tuesday, January 16 at its' monthly meeting in Laconia City Hall that usually starts at 7-pm in the large second floor conference room.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 01-06-2018 at 04:46 PM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 08:14 AM   #65
TiltonBB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 1,078
Thanks: 164
Thanked 578 Times in 217 Posts
Default Laconia Daily Sun

Just an updated article about the appeal.

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...nd-summer-camp
TiltonBB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 09:24 AM   #66
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
Just an updated article about the appeal.

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...nd-summer-camp
Tilton thanks for the updates. Much appreciated.
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 07:46 AM   #67
TiltonBB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 1,078
Thanks: 164
Thanked 578 Times in 217 Posts
Default No new hearing with ZBA

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...nd-summer-camp
TiltonBB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 08:10 AM   #68
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default

Seems like another dumb ass Laconia decision coming from their Zoning Board of Adjustment ...... what can you say?

Can recall another wacky Laconia Zoning Board decision from about 15-years ago: On Lakeside Ave, Weirs Beach; when the Laconia Zoning Board of Adjustment allowed a very nice, old Civil War style, single family house up on the sloping hillside, overlooking Lake Winnipesaukee, to be excavated down to street level, and re-constructed into a dug out, commercial parking lot, close to the Mount Washington cruise building. That too was a pretty much unbelievable Laconia Zoning Board decision? Suggest you go to Lakeside Ave and take a look at this parking lot excavation-construction for yourself ........ yikes!
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 10:20 AM   #69
pondguy
Senior Member
 
pondguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Meredith
Posts: 128
Thanks: 175
Thanked 29 Times in 23 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
Bring on the Lawyers its only the taxpayers money.
pondguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 06:37 PM   #70
TiltonBB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 1,078
Thanks: 164
Thanked 578 Times in 217 Posts
Default Maybe

Quote:
Originally Posted by pondguy View Post
Bring on the Lawyers its only the taxpayers money.
I agree that they will probably sue. But keep in mind that the variance they are asking for requires them to meet very specific criteria and they must satisfy all of the points on the list. I had posted that list some time ago and it is still shown above in this thread.

One of the requirements is that you have to show a hardship. I am not sure how the petitioner feels that they meet this requirement.

Steve Bogert is the Chairman of the ZBA in Laconia and he is very much a man who goes by the book. If you do not meet the criteria it is not going to fly.
TiltonBB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 10:15 PM   #71
Riviera
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 1 Post
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
But keep in mind that the variance they are asking for requires them to meet very specific criteria and they must satisfy all of the points on the list. ....

.... One of the requirements is that you have to show a hardship. I am not sure how the petitioner feels that they meet this requirement.
Actually, they are NOT seeking a variance, and hence do NOT need to show hardship. They are seeking a special exception under the zoning bylaw. The special exception they are requesting is to permit a "conference center" use on the property. Under the bylaw, any given use is either "permitted" (ie single family residential), "permitted by special exception" (ie conference center), or not permitted (ie grocery store).

Under the Laconia zoning bylaw, there is no use listed for a summer camp. Accordingly, they selected a use that is permitted by special exception, that they felt most appropriately mimics a summer camp. If they were to be granted the special exception, the use "conference center" would be permitted on the island in perpetuity.

In order to obtain a special exception for a use that is permitted by special exception, the applicant needs to demonstrate the following:

(a) The use requested is specifically authorized in this chapter.
(b) The requested use will not create undue traffic congestion or unduly impair pedestrian safety.
(c) The requested use will not overload any public water, drainage or sewer system or any other municipal system, not will there be any significant increase in stormwater runoff onto adjacent property or streets.
(d) The requested use will not create excessive demand for municipal police, fire protection, schools or solid waste disposal services.
(e) Any special provisions for the use as set forth in this chapter are fulfilled.
(f) The requested use will not create hazards to the health, safety, or general welfare of the public, not be detrimental to the use of or out of character with the adjacent neighborhood.
(g) The proposed location is appropriate for the requested use.
(h) The requested use is consistent with the spirit and intent of this chapter and the Master Plan.

So, the ZBA has a fairly wide degree of latitude in making these determinations. While the applicant has the burden of proof in establishing the above criteria, they are not required to demonstrate hardship.

If the applicant does file suit, they will need to establish that the ZBA wrongly interpreted these criteria. I suspect they will also need to demonstrate that a "conference center" and a "summer camp", are one and the same. If a summer camp is not equivalent to a conference center, they would then need a variance, and would be required to demonstrate that utilizing the land as single family residential, vs a summer camp, presents a hardship.

While I appreciate the applicants goal, I think they have an uphill legal battle.
Riviera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 12:03 AM   #72
TiltonBB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 1,078
Thanks: 164
Thanked 578 Times in 217 Posts
Default

Riviera, you are correct. I thought it was for a variance, not a special exception.

It would appear that if the applicant is successful the conditions that the ZBA might attach could make it impossible to use the island for a camp anyway. It seems that the conditions can be applied at the discretion of the ZBA and could be very restrictive.

In granting a special exception, the Zoning Board of Adjustment may attach conditions as it deems necessary to assure compliance with the purposes of this chapter. Such conditions may include but are not limited to the following:
(a)
Increasing the lot size or setback area dimensions.
(b)
Limiting the lot coverage or building height.
(c)
Specifying the location and limiting the number of vehicular access points to the property.
(d)
Requiring additional on-site parking or loading spaces.
(e)
Requiring additional landscaping and screening.
(f)
Limiting the number of occupants of a building, and the methods and times of operation of a use.
(g)
Restricting the number, size and illumination of signs.(h)
Modification of the exterior appearance of a building.
(i)
Providing for specific locations or layout of facilities on the property
TiltonBB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 09:54 AM   #73
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 285
Thanks: 77
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
It would appear that if the applicant is successful the conditions that the ZBA might attach could make it impossible to use the island for a camp anyway. It seems that the conditions can be applied at the discretion of the ZBA and could be very restrictive.

Very interesting, especially if we consider that the most obvious way for the owner to recoup his investment is overnight guests in May, June, September and October.

So in addition to the question of whether a conference center is equivalent to a camp, is the question of whether a conference center is equivalent to an inn.
FlyingScot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 07:09 PM   #74
Broken Glass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atkinson,NH/Rattlesnake Island
Posts: 147
Thanks: 282
Thanked 60 Times in 24 Posts
Default Just Maybe

In today's litigious society, would it, or could it be possible, that this guy just wants to give something back, and put a day camp together for the kids?If he had alternative motives, another approach such as a commercial development proposal, would have served him better??
Broken Glass is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2018, 08:56 AM   #75
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default .... Big Island sues over zoning decision

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...oning-decision

Doing what has been planned for a small, up to 40-person, ages 8-14, girl's camp on 2.3 acre Big Island seems like a great thing to be doing. Like, an opportunity that came along that could be a very welcome place for that small island in Paugus Bay.

Here's hoping this law suit is a winner, and the Big Island girl's summer camp gets built and created so many local girls can go there for years and years ahead.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2018, 09:25 AM   #76
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...oning-decision

Doing what has been planned for a small, up to 40-person, ages 8-14, girl's camp on 2.3 acre Big Island seems like a great thing to be doing. Like, an opportunity that came along that could be a very welcome place for that small island in Paugus Bay.

Here's hoping this law suit is a winner, and the Big Island girl's summer camp gets built and created so many local girls can go there for years and years ahead.
You knew this was going to happen too bad the board cannot see the forest through the trees. Now no matter the outcome the city will be the loser.
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2018, 09:29 AM   #77
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Default

In a civil law suit like this, the decision gets made by one judge, who probably writes a very long decision paper to explain their decision ..... as opposed to a jury of 12-local people deciding the verdict.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 02-15-2018 at 11:25 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2018, 11:02 AM   #78
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 285
Thanks: 77
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Default

The more posts I read on this, the less I believe the real objective is a small Summer camp and that Mr Everett "only wants to give something back".

$2MM upfront, then a civil suit which will poison the relationship with 1/2(?) of the community....There are much easier ways to help kids.
FlyingScot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2018, 11:08 AM   #79
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
The more posts I read on this, the less I believe the real objective is a small Summer camp and that Mr Everett "only wants to give something back".

$2MM upfront, then a civil suit which will poison the relationship with 1/2(?) of the community....There are much easier ways to help kids.
Why, first of all the cost can be written off secondly there are genuine people out there that want to give back to the "community" they came from. I would think if the motive was money he would not be seeking to change the use, build
the permitted amount of homes (7 I believe) and cash in on the profit.
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2018, 11:57 AM   #80
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 285
Thanks: 77
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2665 View Post
Why, first of all the cost can be written off secondly there are genuine people out there that want to give back to the "community" they came from. I would think if the motive was money he would not be seeking to change the use, build
the permitted amount of homes (7 I believe) and cash in on the profit.
I do not know his motive, but I think there's a good chance that a for-profit conference center is his primary goal. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it's not charity.

Also, when you say "the cost can be written off", that does not mean it is zero. $2MM has left Mr Everett's pocket. Once written off, the after tax amount falls, but it is still an investment of well over $1MM.

I agree that there are many people (and I trust that both of us are in this group) who seek to give back to the community. But that's the real puzzle--if you had $2MM (pretax) to give back to the community, would this be the first thing that came to your mind? Or maybe, if your primary goal is to enable more kids to attend camp--instead of sinking the cash upfront and crossing your fingers on approval of a new camp in a questionable area--you would support one of many existing struggling camps, or set up funds to support local kids who could not afford to attend one of the existing camps? In this model, $2MM could send dozens of kids to camp for decades, maybe forever.

This last question is not posed to be critical of Mr Everett, or to propose how he should spend his money. It's just a puzzle that his actions do not quite line up with his professed desire, or at least the desire most prominently attributed to him.
FlyingScot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2018, 02:32 PM   #81
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,567
Thanks: 403
Thanked 414 Times in 225 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
I do not know his motive, but I think there's a good chance that a for-profit conference center is his primary goal. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it's not charity.

Also, when you say "the cost can be written off", that does not mean it is zero. $2MM has left Mr Everett's pocket. Once written off, the after tax amount falls, but it is still an investment of well over $1MM.

I agree that there are many people (and I trust that both of us are in this group) who seek to give back to the community. But that's the real puzzle--if you had $2MM (pretax) to give back to the community, would this be the first thing that came to your mind? Or maybe, if your primary goal is to enable more kids to attend camp--instead of sinking the cash upfront and crossing your fingers on approval of a new camp in a questionable area--you would support one of many existing struggling camps, or set up funds to support local kids who could not afford to attend one of the existing camps? In this model, $2MM could send dozens of kids to camp for decades, maybe forever.

This last question is not posed to be critical of Mr Everett, or to propose how he should spend his money. It's just a puzzle that his actions do not quite line up with his professed desire, or at least the desire most prominently attributed to him.
Peter, I don't disagree about the overall financial decisions (building new vs. supporting established), but there's a sizable difference (in terms of philanthropy) between leaving a legacy you created and just giving money to an establishment.

From what I've read, the owner would've made a lot more money--if that were his intent--by developing private homes.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
thinkxingu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2018, 03:53 PM   #82
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 996
Thanks: 177
Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkxingu View Post
Peter, I don't disagree about the overall financial decisions (building new vs. supporting established), but there's a sizable difference (in terms of philanthropy) between leaving a legacy you created and just giving money to an establishment.

From what I've read, the owner would've made a lot more money--if that were his intent--by developing private homes.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
We are on the same page.
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 09:10 AM   #83
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Arrow ...... go Scott buddy, go!

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...ueing-the-city

Scott Everett explains why he is sueing the City over the Planning Board of Adjustment's recent decision in January... trying to build a girl's summer camp on Big Island in Paugus Bay.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2018, 05:04 AM   #84
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,516
Thanks: 178
Thanked 373 Times in 272 Posts
Arrow April 30; hearing on the merits

On Monday, April 30, 2018, a hearing on the merits of this lawsuit is scheduled to be heard in Belknap County Superior Court.


From the March 31 newspaper: http://www.unionleader.com/Developer...ot-a-fraudster


Go Scott buddy ......... go!

Go Winnipesaukee Muskrats baseball team ..... go! ........ www.pointstreak.com/news_story.html?id=499031 ........ On Tuesday, January 30, 2018, Scott Everett became chairman of the Winnipesaukee Muskrats baseball team, the Laconia home town, collegiate baseball team ..... keeping the team in Laconia ..... he bought the team ....... the Winnipesaukee Muskrats ..... formerly named the Laconia Muskrats.

It happened on a Tuesday ........ go Scott buddy .......go!
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 04-01-2018 at 09:00 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2018, 06:05 AM   #85
TiltonBB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 1,078
Thanks: 164
Thanked 578 Times in 217 Posts
Default In Belknap Superior Court

At a hearing in Belknap County Superior Court Monday, attorneys for New Hampshire Big Island and the Laconia Zoning Board argued whether a decision by the ZBA last year to reject the project conformed to the cityís zoning ordinance.


https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...2a9fabfba.html
TiltonBB is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.51105 seconds