Adding additional cleats to a V hull - How difficult is it?

[IslandRadio]

We have an old (1988) Century deep V hull boat. There are only 2 cleats on each side and nothing up at the end of the bow.

Really, there should probably be 3 cleats on each side, and 1 at the end of the bow somewhere.

Right now, the front cleat which is located about 3/4 of the way from the stern towards the bow does all the "work" then the boat is docked. With a 3rd cleat, maybe located between the 2 existing cleats, I could use an additional line to bear some of the force of waves and wind which are constantly pushing the boat forward and into the rocks (if the rope were not there to hold it back!).

Another very useful cleat location would be near to the tip of the bow, just behind the nav lights.

So, after all that rambling, is it a big procedure to install additional cleats, and how does one go about doing this so they are as strong as the original cleats?

Any advise will be greatly appreciated!

[NoBozo]

Are you using any Spring Lines..? A "spring line" is a Third dock line usually running along the length of the boat, from the stern cleat all the way forward to the same cleat on the dock that the bow line is tied to. Larger boats might have Two spring lines..one to prevent the boat from moving forward and the other to prevent it from moving aft.

The bow line and stern lines prevent the boat from moving Away from the dock. The spring lines prevent the boat from moving fore or aft.

You may already be familiar with this, but I think many small boat owners are unaware of the use of spring lines. They are much more common on larger boats.

The nice thing about spring lines is that it allows a much more Relaxed docking arrangement..as far as strain on the various lines is concerned. The boat dosn't have to be jammed up against the dock to prevent it from wandering around.

Adding extra cleats is easy enough. Just make sure your new cleats match the existing cleats. Cleats should also be "backed up" under the deck with a plywood backing plate. Use self locking ("Nylok") Nuts, Bolts and Washers to fasten cleats. NOT Screws.

I'm not a big fan of more cleats though. It makes for more confusion when docking. "Put that rope on that cleat...NO...not that one...THAT one over there".. NB

PS: Unless your boat is a bowrider...cleats on the bow are almost impossable to reach..either from the dock OR the cockpit.

[camp guy]

Adding extra cleats is not rocket science. NB gives good advice in his 5th paragraph, and I would only add a few suggestions. If possible, site the cleat on a surface allowing full contact with the boat surface (you don't want it to 'rock'), use a waterproof caulk to seal the cleat to the surface on both the topside and inside of the boat. If possible, inside the boat, use a large enough piece of plywood as a backer to cover all the mounting holes.

[DickR]

I'll just rubber stamp what the others have said. Yes, you can do it, use through-bolts (not screws), and put something behind the hull to distribute the load over a large area. Actually, you ought to look underneath the top deck in the general area where you want the cleats to go, and pick the best spot for backing the cleat. You may be able to find a fairly clear area, reasonably flat, and perhaps in an area already strengthened with fiberglass at time of manufacture to deal with some higher stresses at that point.

My boat came with just rear and bow cleats, and I agree that the front cleat is useless for most situations. I wanted a third cleat on each side, for use with dock whips. I situated it just forward of the windshield, before the curvature of the hull toward the bow reduced the hull width too much, and where there was fiberglass deck structure to add lateral strength.

[jrc]

Cleats are easy to attach if you can access the back of the area. Otherwise not so easy.

As said above you need to put a backing plate of wood or metal and bolt through the deck. If you just screw the cleat into the deck it will likely pull out when you most need it.

So find a place that you can see or at least reach the back of the hull from inside the boat. A lot of boats have headliners or upolstery blocking access where you need it.

The only other worry is coring. If your deck is cored with balsa wood, you need to seal the core when you drill a hole. Water will ruin the core in no time so do the research. It's too much to cover here, just search.

[NoBozo]

The underside of decks..or the inside of fiberglass hulls are Always Rough/Uneven surfaces. Metal..aluminum backing plates would be IDEAL..but only under Ideal conditions..a smooth/even surface underneath. For this reason WOOD is preferred because it is able to conform to the rough underdeck surface...much like a mattress conforms to your body.

A backing plate is usually ONE Piece of wood or metal with ALL the bolt holes drilled through it. An alternative in a difficult underdeck situation ..would be large stainless steel "Fender Washers" on each bolt. NB

[trfour]

I would not recommend using wood, as you would want the cleats to remain tight and secure, No?.. Do not defeat your work, expense, and or your original purpose.

I would use stainless steel plates, and or fender washers, with a decent thickness, ( as NoBozo had mentioned ), and all stainless steel hardware with nylock nuts...

Stainless steel will remain here, long after the rest of us! ( No Matter How Many Irene's Come Along )!

Terry
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[IslandRadio]

Ok, this is great - thanks for all of the advise! The boat is a bow rider, so a cleat at the end of the bow will be useful under certain occasions.

The interesting challenge will be to see if I can access the underside of the hull at the spot where an additional cleat would actually make sense. Definitely be checking it out next time we're at the lake

Thanks again!

Regards,

Steve

[NoRegrets]

If you havn't drilled through fiberglass before make sure you have sharp drill bits! Drill througn the gell coat with a larger bit than the hole you drill for the fiberglass. Make sure the hole you drill for the bolt is large enough so the threading does not "split" the fiberglass. You would not like the gell coat to chip.

[robmac]

I would also recommend putting tape on the surface then mark hole locations and drill. It will help the bit from sliding and the gel coat from popping as you drill. As far as access see if the cushions come out you may be able to reach from there.

[camp guy]

Say, IslandRadio, you said the boat was a bow rider so I would raise the question of not putting the cleats along the deck area where people riding in the bow might put their arms. Maybe put a cleat just behind the seat back rest, probably near the windshield, this would be out of the way.

[fatlazyless]

Everything you need is at Lowe's-Gilford; three sizes of low priced, 1.95-2.95-3.95, black, hard rubber cleats that can get maintained with vaseline once/year, stainless screws, stainless fender washers, and rubber fender washers to protect the underside of the fiberglass hull, and stainless stop nuts!


Or, if you really want, you can go to Lakeport Landing or Silver Sands, and pick up some spring loaded, performance marine architect designed, pop-up cleats, suitable for a Baja or a Formula for some unbelievable price like $125. each, or some unbelievable price like that!


Can you guess what I would use?


Now, if only the Gilford - Lowe's would get their free coffee machine back up and working! Come on Lowe's.....it's time to fix your free coffee & hot chocolate machine! You know that the Home Depot in Tilton has free coffee, and they do it without a fancy-dancy, super coffee machine.....they do it with just a coffee pot and a hot plate.....just like at Heath's in Center Harbor which also has the same hard rubber cleats as Lowe's, but probably for a buck or so, more money!

[Baja Guy]

Before you go drilling your boat for cleats try to do some reading & talking about using spring lines. My old 89 Baja is a bowrider with cleats at the stern and 3/4 of the way forward.
You may want to consider what I do or some variation of it.
Forward, I clip into the bow trailering eye. The clip is attached by dock line to the port & starboard uprights on my dock at the bow. It is centered between the 2 uprights. I also have stern lines from the port & starboard cleats to the dock. But the thing that makes it all come together is a spring line. It goes from halfway down my slip to the forward cleat near the bow. That line, as NB says, keeps my bow from hitting the dock. And because I have that setup I can come in & just drop my lines on the stern cleats, port bow cleat & bow eye. With that I am secure. It's quick and easy.
Take a look at some folks slip setups, many use a variation of the setup I described.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by trfour

I would not recommend using wood, as you would want the cleats to remain tight and secure, No?.. Do not defeat your work, expense, and or your original purpose.

I would use stainless steel plates, and or fender washers, with a decent thickness, ( as NoBozo had mentioned ), and all stainless steel hardware with nylock nuts...

Stainless steel will remain here, long after the rest of us! ( No Matter How Many Irene's Come Along )!

Terry
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I would use both.Plywood on the fiberglass surface with a steel plate on top of that.