Forgot to drain engine block last fall

[DickR]

My boat has a 1997 3.0 liter Mercruiser Alpha One, 130 HP engine. Last fall I forgot to drain the block and add RV antifreeze protection down the hoses to cover any residual water that didn't drain out, as I normally do. I wasn't sure if I had or had not drained the block until yesterday. Nope, I hadn't, as a fair amount of water drained out when I removed the plug. I can't see any damage on the outside of the block, and I haven't tried to start it yet. The dip stick shows just oil at about the right level (higher might have indicated water below the oil in the pan).

The questions are first how likely is freeze damage to have occurred and then how to tell if damage has been done? I suppose I could just launch the boat, start the engine, and observe it, check the oil for water/oil emulsion forming, oil slick on the water, etc. I would think there is a better way than this. Any opinions?

[Belmont Resident]

Easiest way to tell is put the muffs to it or put it in a bucket of water and fire it up. Keep checking the oil and look for water leaks that may take time to see as the block heats up and expands. Keep an eye on the temp also.
The good news is that we didn't have a really cold winter.
This is about what a marina would do to determine if there is any damage.

[MDoug]

My marina didn't drain completely the Mercruiser V-6 in my boat a few winters ago. The freeze plugs blew. Although they didn't charge me, they took all summer to repair the damage.

[Ropetow]

Originally Posted by MDoug

My marina didn't drain completely the Mercruiser V-6 in my boat a few winters ago. The freeze plugs blew. Although they didn't charge me, they took all summer to repair the damage.

I trust that you found a new marina....Not so much for the mistake in the draining, but for dragging their feet on the repair and costing you a boating season!

[Kamper]

This is one of those things you will usually know fairly quickly if you have a problem and how bad. As advised above, run it a while and check for water and drips where they shouldn't be. Then monitor the motor throughout the season.

I've never heard of anyone doing this but if you have just a small problem you can reroute the "plumbing" to temporarly make it a 'closed' system. Then dump some of that radiator sealant into the water-intake. Extra hose, a wash-tub and other materials will probably run you $50-ish. If it fixes the problem re-route everything back to normal and flush it. The down-side is that even if it works you might wonder if that little but of goop is going to blow through the crack/gap when you least want it to.

Good luck!

[Just Sold]

When I took the boat for itsa maiden run this year (it had been winterized by a lakes region marina where I bought the boat) I had a small water leak which I thought could have been a bellows. Turned out that they never got all of the water out of the engine and a soldered fitting on the "water box" moved from frozen water and started to leak. It was a small drip and not easy to find but I did and my guys at Fay's took care of it right away. They also discovered the top gasket on the carb was bad and spraying gas out and they fixed that too.

BTW before I brought the boat up to the lake this spring I discovered that the same marina who winterized the boat had seriously overfilled the crankcase and they did take care of that when I went in on my way to Winni and Fay's. Good thing I did not break winterization at home on the hose & ears.

So be careful to make sure that the ones doing the winterization really know what they are doing.

[MDoug]

Originally Posted by Ropetow

I trust that you found a new marina....Not so much for the mistake in the draining, but for dragging their feet on the repair and costing you a boating season!

Unfortunately, my wife likes the owners, and it's her boat. She refuses to switch.

I'm lucky to have my own scow.

[robmac]

I would definitely run on a set of ears on the trailer. Hopefully no block or head damage but maybe a freeze plug. Like what was said prior keep your eye on the bilge and continue to check temp and oil . My fingers are crossed the boating gods were looking out for you and no damage was done.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by robmac

I would definitely run on a set of ears on the trailer. Hopefully no block or head damage but maybe a freeze plug. Like what was said prior keep your eye on the bilge and continue to check temp and oil . My fingers are crossed the boating gods were looking out for you and no damage was done.

Yes- it will either be right or it won't! It may not even turn over. I bought my old boat with a motor that had not been winterized. Hello new long block.

Frankly, I would be surprised if no damage was done (I hope I am wrong), but please find out on land!

[LIforrelaxin]

As others have stated here, the signs of damage will be obvious after starting the boat up. Using a set of muffs is the easiest way. There are many things that may have gone wrong (hopefully none of them have). I wouldn't advise putting the boat in the water until you have started on land.

[DickR]

Yesterday, after reading elsewhere about where cracks typically occur on that block, I looked again with a strong light. With my head nearly into the bilge, and looking up under the manifold, I saw a lengthy crack, with rust on it and some running down.

I guess two questions not resolved are whether that crack could be "repaired" and if there is any internal damage. I may put a bucket under the outdrive, or use muffs, and run the engine. I don't know if that would be definitive.

Otherwise options are long block with more labor for switching parts or new complete engine, at more cost but less labor (but more overall cost).

[Woodsy]

Now it boils down to budget....

Do you have insurance? you can make a claim!

If not.....

If you want to have the crack repaired.... DO NOT RUN THE MOTOR! If you run the motor you risk internal damage..... water + oil + bearingsd = disaster!

I would run a compression test on the motor and if the motor had good compression, I would pull the motor out of the boat and truely assess the damage and make sure there is only 1 crack. I would then remove the exhaust manifold to gain really good access to the crack.... clean it thoroughly with a wire brush etc.... then either bring to a welding shop (welding cast iron is a B*tch but can be done) or go get some JB WELD and smear it in the crack..... either way will work as long as the crack is only in the water jacket.

The bottom line is sometimes your lucky and its a cheap fix... sometimes your not. I hope for you its just some JB Weld and some good natured ribbing from your friends!


Woodsy

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by DickR

... I saw a lengthy crack, ... (can it be repaired?) ...

You'd want the motor evaluated by a mechanic but yes a crack can be repaired. If it's just a crack, they use an epoxy putty to seal the space. If it's too large or 'goes around a corner' I'd be less certain. But a qualified technician will need to look at it (imo).

Good luck!

[jrc]

On a boating site, I saw this system:

http://www.locknstitch.com/cracked_e...ock_repair.htm

A lot depends on how much work you want to do, how long you want to be boatless and how much you are willing to spend.

Remember it is a 14 year old engine. If your labor is free (you) then maybe repair is a good idea. But if you're paying for labor, I'd drop in a rebuilt engine.

[robmac]

Dick,sorry to hear that you found a crack,I would first make sure it is definitly cracked. You can use an angled pic to verify crack and not a casting line. If in fact it is cracked I would go with an engine assembly,my years of experience with engines those shortcut repairs don't hold up just a bandade. Welding is an option however not an easy one and you need to have plenty of room to get at the crack to weld it properly. I think when you start running the numbers an engine assembly will look pretty good. I hope I read your next post that you have insurance. Let us know.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by DickR

Yesterday, after reading elsewhere about where cracks typically occur on that block, I looked again with a strong light. With my head nearly into the bilge, and looking up under the manifold, I saw a lengthy crack, with rust on it and some running down.

I guess two questions not resolved are whether that crack could be "repaired" and if there is any internal damage. I may put a bucket under the outdrive, or use muffs, and run the engine. I don't know if that would be definitive.

Otherwise options are long block with more labor for switching parts or new complete engine, at more cost but less labor (but more overall cost).

If the block is cracked it's junk, trying to fix it is throwing money away at this point. External cracks are one thing, you have no idea the damage done elsewhere that cannot be seen. Without a total teardown of the engine you'll never know what else may have been compromised. Furthermore those blocks are cast iron, welding them isn't a viable option. Slapping them with some magic epoxy putty is a recipe for further problems even if the one visible crack is the extent of the damage which is highly unlikely. Kind of like dumping stop leak in a rotten radiator, it does doesn't fix the rot just prolongs the inevitable and guaranteed to give you a breakdown at the worst possible time. In my opinion you're probably looking at a new engine. Now if the crack is only in the manifolds that's a cheaper and easier thing to fix. Either way having it evaluated would be the smart thing to do.

[lawn psycho]

Consider DIY. Boats are easier than you think to swap motors.

There are a TON of sites to go to and get help if you have any sticking points.
The biggest issue is lifting the motor out if the boat. You will need a tall engine lift to get it out.

FYI, if the block is cracked, a complete rebuild is not worth the money

If I was your neighbor I would come over and do it with you as these projects are fun AND you get to save a lot of money.

Be careful with rebuilds as you need to know what was "rebuilt"

Check out www.marinepartsexpress.com. There are many sites but this one is fairly reputable.

Now it a time to consider upgrade to 4.3L as well..

[ApS]

Originally Posted by DickR

I saw a lengthy crack, with rust on it and some running down.

Some normal manufacturing imperfections in cast iron will appear as cracks when they are not. See if that "lengthy crack" appears bulged from the rest of the surface.

Originally Posted by DickR

I guess two questions not resolved are whether that crack could be "repaired" and if there is any internal damage. I may put a bucket under the outdrive, or use muffs, and run the engine. I don't know if that would be definitive.

Otherwise options are long block with more labor for switching parts or new complete engine, at more cost but less labor (but more overall cost).

1) Cast iron block walls are not particularly thick. The "lengthy crack", with "rust running down" is probably the only damage—IMO.

First—cold—check for water in the oil sump, then upon running it for a couple of minutes. After it gets to operating temperature, water turns invisibly to steam—so a short "run" is enough. As long as the drive isn't engaged—forward or reverse—you can use a garbage can for your testing. You'll be surprised at how much pollution will appear in and on the testing water. .

2) Once thoroughly wire-brushed, cast iron is easily "brazed" using a brass filler. It's my guess that it's just the water jacket involved: if so, brazing could fix it indefinitely.

It's an easy process for a beginner—easier than soldering—and cheap! I'd give brazing with Mapp® gas a try. Exhaust pressures would be another matter—but even there, brazing could last a full season.

Freeze damage is different than damage from overheating. Here are two links that discuss cracks in cast iron blocks. I don't know why they're Government Motors engine blocks being discussed.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/te...ked-block.html

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php?p=3795858

Have we gotten so silly in this day and age, that we are insuring ourselves from our own stupidity?

PM me about insurance fraud.

[LIforrelaxin]

OK, So I keep seeing insurance brought up here... I find it hard to believe that personal boat insurance would cover engine replacement, for something like this. I know if you had a marina winterize the boat, and there was an issue, the Marina's insurance would cover the cost for their mistake. However This is a person winterizing their own boat. When we do something ourselves we take on the liability risk.

Have we gotten so silly in this day and age, that we are insuring ourselves, form our own stupidity?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Have we gotten so silly in this day and age, that we are insuring ourselves, form our own stupidity?

You have liability insurance, right? If you ever have a liability claim paid out, it's because your insurance company (or the court system) decided that you made a stupid mistake.

[NoBozo]

An accident is an accident. Someone rear ends you by accident..her insurance pays. If you run off an icy road and hit a tree.. Same thing.. it's an accident..your insurance will pay.

If you Forget to change the oil in your car for 60,000 miles and the engine seizes up..the insurance will not pay because it's not an accident..it's Negligence. Likewise: Forget to "Use Reasonable Diligence", by draining the water out of the engine for the winter, and it's Negligence.

Neglecting to perform "Routine Maintenance" sometimes carries a penalty.. Sad but true. NB

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

An accident is an accident. Someone rear ends you by accident..her insurance pays. If you run off an icy road and hit a tree.. Same thing.. it's an accident..your insurance will pay.

If you Forget to change the oil in your car for 60,000 miles and the engine seizes up..the insurance will not pay because it's not an accident..it's Negligence. Likewise: Forget to "Use Reasonable Diligence", by draining the water out of the engine for the winter, and it's Negligence.

Neglecting to perform "Routine Maintenance" sometimes carries a penalty.. Sad but true. NB

No Bozo, this is exactly what I am getting at, where is the dividing line.... where does reasonable diligence become neglect.... this is something I think as a society we have lost sight of... and one of the reasons insurance cost keep rising....

Now incidentally, I don't mean to discourage DickR from talking to his insurance company. If they will cover it, well then that is his benefit to reap. I just don't see this as something insurance should cover.

[Lakesrider]

I have freeze coverage on my boat. Even though it gets winterized, many times water can still be trapped in manifolds water galleys etc. Boat US has this coverage and it is pretty popular in southern states where you would not expect freezing conditions but might happen. Heck latley they are getting as much snow and cold as we are up here. It is an extra $50.00 on my policy. More than makes it worthwhile.

Here is an article from Boat US... back in 2006.

http://www.boatus.com/PressRoom/release.asp?id=150