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Old 01-13-2020, 11:51 AM   #1
TheProfessor
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Default Laconia - New Car Dealership

Yep. Another story. This time from my neighbor.

Neighbor needs new tires.
Neighbor gets a valid coupon. The coupon states any participating brand new car dealership. Neighbor goes to new car dealership in Laconia and asks if they are a participating dealership. Yes.

Coupon states that participating dealership will price match any legitimate tire price within 100 miles. Six tire brands are listed on coupon. Neighbor goes to VIP in Laconia. VIP has the tire brand, name, and size listed in coupon. Neighbor gets a price for a tire. Just the tire at this point.

Neighbor goes to new car dealership and asks if they will match the VIP price. A picture/price/size/model name printout from computer. Well . . . they will if one brings in the specific tire model number of tire. Neighbor goes back to VIP and obtains specific tire number - not name of the tire but a specific model number/size. Neighbor goes back to Laconia new car dealership. Provides the specific tire model number. No . . . "we have the number already". We need the specific model number on VIP stationary. Back to VIP tire and gets the specific tire model number on VIP stationary. Back to new Laconia new car dealership. OK. Yes. They will match the price.

Neighbor makes an appointment to buy and have tires put on vehicle. Mounting and balancing of course are always extra anyplace.

The tire pressure monitoring system is working properly. But since the car is 10 years old. Neighbor purchases new TPMS sensors on line. The exact same as the ones on the vehicle OEM. Neighbor telephones the manufacturer of the TPMS sensors to make sure that there is no programing needed. All that is needed is to "mate" the sensors to the vehicle. The new TPMS sensors are preprogrammed to her vehicle. The TPMS sensors are the exact same as on vehicle before new tires put on.

The tires had to be ordered. So an appointment is made.

Neighbor goes back to Laconia new car dealership. Neighbor asks for mechanic to save old TPMS sensors to be used as spares if needed. Service writer comes to neighbor and states that mechanic broke one of the sensors. Taking it off rim. Rusted she states. Neighbor asks to view all of the old sensors. There is no rust as they are made out of metal that does not rust.

Then the Laconia service writer goes to neighbor in waiting room and states that she needs an alignment. A colored printout shows that vehicle is out of alignment.

BUT. Neighbor went to Tire Warehouse two days earlier and had the car - all wheels aligned. Neighbor has the alignment printout from Tire Warehouse.

No new alignment is requested at the Laconian new car dealership. When all was completed. Neighbor asks to speak with the person at the Laconia new car dealership that checked the alignment. As there is a difference of opinion as the whether the car needs an alignment or not. Well . . . apparently, the Laconia new car dealership never put neighbors car on the alignment machine. All that the Laconia new car dealership does is "take a picture" of the car as it is driven into the dealership service area. A picture? Yes. And that picture machine will state if car is in alignment or not in alignment. At that point the neighbor shows the service writer the printout from Tire Warehouse on Union Ave. that states that vehicle just had an alignment. And No - the neighbor did not hit any curbs or potholes in the last two days.

So the neighbor states to the Laconia new car dealership that either their picture alignment machine is not working properly OR the Tire Warehouse alignment is not working properly. Well . . . the Laconia new car dealership asks if they can drive the completed car through the picture machine again to double check. Opps. The Laconia new car dealership alignment picture machine must have made a mistake the first time through - as the completed car with new tires passes 100% in alignment. Sorry . . . my neighbor is told.

The Laconia new car dealership service person states that their shop cannot "mate" the new TPMS sensors. The TPMS dash light is ON.

A quick trip down to Tire Warehouse on Union Ave. and the new sensors are mated within minutes at NO CHARGE. Even though the tires were purchased at the Laconia new car dealership.

The vehicle now drives straight and true with the TPMS light OFF.

Is the alignment thing a scam or was this a legitimate mistake by the Laconia new car dealership machine?

And to add to this. Neighbor did not check receipt if the Laconia new car dealership matched the VIP tire price - as there was a previous discussion and agreement as to price of tires. Opps. The Laconia new car dealership had NOT matched the VIP tire price. The Laconia new car dealership had charged full retail for the new tires. Negating the previous agreed upon price of the tires.

No, the name of the Laconia new car dealership will not be made. So that question need not be asked. Or won't be answered. Reach your own conclusions.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:07 PM   #2
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Default ??????

I really do not understand the purpose of the post if you do not name the new car dealership. I am guessing you are posting as a public service message to warn prospective consumers but if the vendor/dealer remains unknown there is no real reason for the post.

FYI just go to Belknap Tire they are the best in the area
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:23 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessor View Post
Yep. Another story. This time from my neighbor.

Neighbor needs new tires.
Neighbor gets a valid coupon. The coupon states any participating brand new car dealership. Neighbor goes to new car dealership in Laconia and asks if they are a participating dealership. Yes.

Coupon states that participating dealership will price match any legitimate tire price within 100 miles. Six tire brands are listed on coupon. Neighbor goes to VIP in Laconia. VIP has the tire brand, name, and size listed in coupon. Neighbor gets a price for a tire. Just the tire at this point.

Neighbor goes to new car dealership and asks if they will match the VIP price. A picture/price/size/model name printout from computer. Well . . . they will if one brings in the specific tire model number of tire. Neighbor goes back to VIP and obtains specific tire number - not name of the tire but a specific model number/size. Neighbor goes back to Laconia new car dealership. Provides the specific tire model number. No . . . "we have the number already". We need the specific model number on VIP stationary. Back to VIP tire and gets the specific tire model number on VIP stationary. Back to new Laconia new car dealership. OK. Yes. They will match the price.

Neighbor makes an appointment to buy and have tires put on vehicle. Mounting and balancing of course are always extra anyplace.

The tire pressure monitoring system is working properly. But since the car is 10 years old. Neighbor purchases new TPMS sensors on line. The exact same as the ones on the vehicle OEM. Neighbor telephones the manufacturer of the TPMS sensors to make sure that there is no programing needed. All that is needed is to "mate" the sensors to the vehicle. The new TPMS sensors are preprogrammed to her vehicle. The TPMS sensors are the exact same as on vehicle before new tires put on.

The tires had to be ordered. So an appointment is made.

Neighbor goes back to Laconia new car dealership. Neighbor asks for mechanic to save old TPMS sensors to be used as spares if needed. Service writer comes to neighbor and states that mechanic broke one of the sensors. Taking it off rim. Rusted she states. Neighbor asks to view all of the old sensors. There is no rust as they are made out of metal that does not rust.

Then the Laconia service writer goes to neighbor in waiting room and states that she needs an alignment. A colored printout shows that vehicle is out of alignment.

BUT. Neighbor went to Tire Warehouse two days earlier and had the car - all wheels aligned. Neighbor has the alignment printout from Tire Warehouse.

No new alignment is requested at the Laconian new car dealership. When all was completed. Neighbor asks to speak with the person at the Laconia new car dealership that checked the alignment. As there is a difference of opinion as the whether the car needs an alignment or not. Well . . . apparently, the Laconia new car dealership never put neighbors car on the alignment machine. All that the Laconia new car dealership does is "take a picture" of the car as it is driven into the dealership service area. A picture? Yes. And that picture machine will state if car is in alignment or not in alignment. At that point the neighbor shows the service writer the printout from Tire Warehouse on Union Ave. that states that vehicle just had an alignment. And No - the neighbor did not hit any curbs or potholes in the last two days.

So the neighbor states to the Laconia new car dealership that either their picture alignment machine is not working properly OR the Tire Warehouse alignment is not working properly. Well . . . the Laconia new car dealership asks if they can drive the completed car through the picture machine again to double check. Opps. The Laconia new car dealership alignment picture machine must have made a mistake the first time through - as the completed car with new tires passes 100% in alignment. Sorry . . . my neighbor is told.

The Laconia new car dealership service person states that their shop cannot "mate" the new TPMS sensors. The TPMS dash light is ON.

A quick trip down to Tire Warehouse on Union Ave. and the new sensors are mated within minutes at NO CHARGE. Even though the tires were purchased at the Laconia new car dealership.

The vehicle now drives straight and true with the TPMS light OFF.

Is the alignment thing a scam or was this a legitimate mistake by the Laconia new car dealership machine?

And to add to this. Neighbor did not check receipt if the Laconia new car dealership matched the VIP tire price - as there was a previous discussion and agreement as to price of tires. Opps. The Laconia new car dealership had NOT matched the VIP tire price. The Laconia new car dealership had charged full retail for the new tires. Negating the previous agreed upon price of the tires.

No, the name of the Laconia new car dealership will not be made. So that question need not be asked. Or won't be answered. Reach your own conclusions.
Why didn't you go to Tire Warehouse in the first place? Never, never, never, by tires from a new car dealer.
Those coupons are just to get you in the door to sell you other work.
Is your neighbor FLL?

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Old 01-13-2020, 12:25 PM   #4
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There are a lot of scams when it comes to vehicle repairs.

I have never heard of a picture machine that checks alignment. I cannot see how taking a picture can tell you much except if the tires are wearing unevenly, and no picture is needed for that.

I have had dealerships tell me while the car was still being accepted and the service order written up that an alignment was needed. I won't believe that unless that car was actually placed on the alignment machine to be checked.

As far as your friend being charged a price other than what was agreed on: If the tires were put on a credit card I would contest the charge. I would also contact the General Manager of the dealership and demand that the quote be honored.

Speaking of scams:
Two months ago I attempted to order a new car at a Laconia dealership. They would not sell the car without putting the $650 "finish protector" on it. (Who even knows if they actually put anything on it). I said I wanted it just the way it came off the truck and I would pay MSRP. They refused to sell it that way. Can you say scam? I ordered it at a different dealership that adds nothing and absorbs any dealer fee into the MSRP.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:41 PM   #5
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Default wow

I really cant believe that a. your neighbor went back and forth to VIP and the "unnamed dealer" multiple times; b. you typed the novel above and finally c. that I read it!

What was the purpose? Why not buy at TW or VIP?
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2665 View Post
I really do not understand the purpose of the post if you do not name the new car dealership. I am guessing you are posting as a public service message to warn prospective consumers but if the vendor/dealer remains unknown there is no real reason for the post.

FYI just go to Belknap Tire they are the best in the area
Second Belknap Tire


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Old 01-13-2020, 01:43 PM   #7
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If my customers are looking for the cheapest price I usually send them to Town Fair Tire. All they do is tires and front end alignments and they won't try to sell you phony car repairs.
I do sell and install tires but I'm not the cheapest and I don't even try to compete with the big tire retailers.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:29 PM   #8
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Default No Friend

Over my sales career, I spent approximately 12 years in automotive sales and service sales. Just know that (most) car dealers are NOT your friends. Recalls and warranty work (and maybe when you have to buy one), that's about it. I ended up once leaving a dealership because I got tired of having to lie to customers. It's not always easy but it's really important to find a repair facility that are straight shooters, no BS stories of bogus work needed or part scams. You should be able to trust them to tell you like it is; the type of place that will bring you out back and show you on the lift what you do and don't need. You'll definitely have much less agita and save money as well.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:31 PM   #9
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Why bother?

Just go with VIP, or whatever tire place has the best price. Seems like a lot of work/headache.
I have to think a dealer will charge more for the mounting/balancing then an independent tire shop.


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Old 01-13-2020, 03:19 PM   #10
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I really cant believe that a. your neighbor went back and forth to VIP and the "unnamed dealer" multiple times; b. you typed the novel above and finally c. that I read it!

What was the purpose? Why not buy at TW or VIP?
Absolutely this.

Your neighbor's difficulty was karma's payment for too many cooks in the stew. What a waste of life.

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Old 01-13-2020, 03:57 PM   #11
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My sense is that your neighbor thought he was going to outsmart the several establishments by mixing and matching price schemes so that none of the sellers was going to get a fair profit. If he's really hard up for cash, he has my sympathy. If not, as others have suggested, he needs one supplier or another a fair price and get on with his life
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:58 PM   #12
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Coupon states that participating dealership will price match any legitimate tire price within 100 miles. Six tire brands are listed on coupon. Neighbor goes to VIP in Laconia. VIP has the tire brand, name, and size listed in coupon. Neighbor gets a price for a tire.
This whole story sounds like an AD for VIP (or whatever place your neighbor visited).

Why would you go through so much trouble (3, 4 or 10 visits between tire sellers) just to MATCH price?

Another note: Any time I have purchased new tires for an old vehicle, the tire seller (VIP, TW, it doesn't matter) they will "strongly recommend" an alignment. Even your female neighbor should know if her vehicle is pulling to the ditch or center of the road, there might be a problem. And if tire wear was visible, be sure that the tire seller would point that out as a reason to get an alignment.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:07 PM   #13
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Third Belknap Tire.

I haven’t tried others but after my first through 20th? visits there I find no reason to go elsewhere.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:03 PM   #14
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I believe the "alignment picture machine" might be getting confused with a certain model of a Hunter alignment machine, which uses 4 cameras and flashes a bank of LED's to look at the position of the wheel sensors...but that's the thing, the vehicle would have to go up on the rack in order to get those measurements.

The 4 wheel sensors are mounted, the correct M/M/Y of the vehicle is selected and then the tech takes the measurements as the alignment machine steps through the process. Typically a 5 minute task, all things considered.
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Old 01-13-2020, 06:52 PM   #15
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Is your neighbor FLL?
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:38 AM   #16
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My experience has been the opposite. A national tire dealer tried to sell unnecessary repairs and tires at a price higher than provided by the car dealer from whom I purchased the car. I think the point is you need to know who you are dealing with and whether they have a history of honesty and fair prices. My car dealer seems to value the relationship and the prospect of future car sales to me and perhaps honesty itself.
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:37 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by loonguy View Post
My experience has been the opposite. A national tire dealer tried to sell unnecessary repairs and tires at a price higher than provided by the car dealer from whom I purchased the car. I think the point is you need to know who you are dealing with and whether they have a history of honesty and fair prices. My car dealer seems to value the relationship and the prospect of future car sales to me and perhaps honesty itself.
That's why I tell people to go to Town Fair. They don't do car repairs so the won't try to sell you anything that's not related to tires or alignment.
Most of the big tire merchants do repairs so they will try to sell you something else.
As for tire sensors, they may not rust but they are aluminum and they do corrode and break.

Last edited by Biggd; 01-14-2020 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:07 AM   #18
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Went to my dealership in Laconia for 100K service. Well north of $1,000
but I like my truck and want to keep it in top shape.
Paid the bill and drove to Florida with a few side trips so I needed oil and filter service after a month or so.
Went to the same dealership in Florida and while I was waiting,the service writer told me I needed a radiator flush ($140)
Wanting to care for my vehicle and without thinking, I gave them the go ahead.
Got thinking about it and checked my 100K service invoice when I got back to NH and sure enough, they had charged me for a flush a month before I got the second one. Don't really know who to blame. Did the Laconia dealer fail to do the flush or did the Florida dealer pull a fast one.
Bottom line is service writers get commissions for upselling so you go for an oil change and end up dropping $500.
Also, my laconia dealer told me that I had some dry rot and needed 4 new tires. I only had 26K on tires that I bought at Belknap Tire so I drove there to have them check it out and sure enough, they were fine.
Bottom line is I'm starting not to trust dealerships and starting to go to family owned independents. Had good luck at Mikes Quality Car Care.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:24 AM   #19
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Sorry to jump in here but I can't figure out how to start a thread on a new topic. HELP? Also anyone else having a problem with the Echo Shores cam I cannot view it. It asks for a password and username??
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:37 AM   #20
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Sorry to jump in here but I can't figure out how to start a thread on a new topic. HELP? Also anyone else having a problem with the Echo Shores cam I cannot view it. It asks for a password and username??
Open the forum that you want to start a new thread in. In upper left click on "New Thread".
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:55 AM   #21
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Default Buyer beware!

It pays to have a trusted mechanic. My goto guy, Neil Trinidad, is great! He even fix problems on my Jeep and GF Toyota that the new car dealerships have missed or couldn't fix! Never trust dealers technicians.

As for tires, I researched best tire to purchased for NE climate. In my case Nokian WRG4. Call around for best prices. TW and VIP do carry them on special order. Nearest Nokian installer is Wilson Tire in Plymouth. I choose to find the best tire for this climate rather than the cheapest I can find. OEM tires are judge by the factory bean counters.

After calling around I find the prices competitive. I also look at what comes with it, Road Hazard, balancing, rotation etc. All are free for the life if the tire.

I had mounting and balancing issues with VIP and TW. VIP would tell me that my car needs alignment. A trip to Northeast Tire prove otherwise. Because of experience I choose to purchase from Wilson and can't be happier! Buy local!

Pays to do your homework before purchase!
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:25 PM   #22
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Just as we are posting about tires, I sent one of my customers to Town Fair tire for 4 tires and alignment last week. He brought the car into me today and told me the car was shaking at 60 mph. I checked it out, it had a bad ball joint and all the tires were grossly out of balance. This Town Fair tire is only 5 years old. They have the latest and greatest equipment but they have meatballs for employees. I replaced the ball joint and rebalance all the tires on my 15 year old wheel balancer. All is good now, happy customer.

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Old 01-14-2020, 08:28 PM   #23
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Default Laconia - New Car Dealership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
Just as we are posting about tires, I sent one of my customers to Town Fair tire for 4 tires and alignment last week. He brought the car into me today and told me the car was shaking at 60 mph. I checked it out, it had a bad ball joint and all the tires were grossly out of balance. This Town Fair tire is only 5 years old. They have the latest and greatest equipment but they have meatballs for employees. I replaced the ball joint and rebalance all the tires on my 15 year old wheel balancer. All is good now, happy customer.

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I’m not a fan of the chain tire places such as Town Fair or Mavis that why I have used Belknap Tire for the past 10 years. They never perform unnecessary or unauthorized work. I use them for inspections also.


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Old 01-14-2020, 10:49 PM   #24
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While we’re on the subject of dealerships, the one I go to for my Ford service has been pretty good and fairly consistent. Last oil change they came into the lounge to get me and had a list as long as my arm of “scheduled maintenance” work that they “suggested” I get done. No thanks l, just oil change and tire rotation please. No argument. Before they were done the guy comes out again to tell me that “my tire’s lug nuts were swollen” and they were having a hard time removing them...new lug nuts were suggested at a cost of $200. I told him that was baloney and I have never heard of such a thing.
Well I went back to the lounge and looked it up on my phone and sure enough some Ford models have this problem because the lug nuts are steel with chrome plated “cover” on them and over time they build up corrosion and swell. Damn!
So I went online and researched and found solid steel, chrome plated direct replacement lug nuts (set if 24) for my truck. So this past weekend with the nice weather I set out to swap my swollen nuts with the new ones.
Not a good time. I managed to get 2 nuts swapped somehow and stripped the “covers” on 2 more before I quit. The problem is the correct sized lug wrench won’t fit over the swollen nuts and the next size socket tends to spin the cover and create a non removable nut. I packed up my new nuts and went to the dealer to see if they would swap them and rotate my tires ( since they did not do it last service)
I spoke to a service manager and told the tale of woe and he said “we’ll take care of it but will charge labor.” I said how much? He said $50 or so.
Well long story short they only charged me for a normal tire rotation ($24) and swapped out the bad nuts. I was very happy!
Ford F-150 (and other model) owners beware of the “swollen lug nuts” issue and if you want the replacement nuts, PM me and I’ll give you the Amazon part number.
Seems there was a class action suit against Ford for this and the judge threw it out of court in favor of Ford to various reasons.
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:09 AM   #25
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While we’re on the subject of dealerships, the one I go to for my Ford service has been pretty good and fairly consistent. Last oil change they came into the lounge to get me and had a list as long as my arm of “scheduled maintenance” work that they “suggested” I get done. No thanks l, just oil change and tire rotation please. No argument. Before they were done the guy comes out again to tell me that “my tire’s lug nuts were swollen” and they were having a hard time removing them...new lug nuts were suggested at a cost of $200. I told him that was baloney and I have never heard of such a thing.
Well I went back to the lounge and looked it up on my phone and sure enough some Ford models have this problem because the lug nuts are steel with chrome plated “cover” on them and over time they build up corrosion and swell. Damn!
So I went online and researched and found solid steel, chrome plated direct replacement lug nuts (set if 24) for my truck. So this past weekend with the nice weather I set out to swap my swollen nuts with the new ones.
Not a good time. I managed to get 2 nuts swapped somehow and stripped the “covers” on 2 more before I quit. The problem is the correct sized lug wrench won’t fit over the swollen nuts and the next size socket tends to spin the cover and create a non removable nut. I packed up my new nuts and went to the dealer to see if they would swap them and rotate my tires ( since they did not do it last service)
I spoke to a service manager and told the tale of woe and he said “we’ll take care of it but will charge labor.” I said how much? He said $50 or so.
Well long story short they only charged me for a normal tire rotation ($24) and swapped out the bad nuts. I was very happy!
Ford F-150 (and other model) owners beware of the “swollen lug nuts” issue and if you want the replacement nuts, PM me and I’ll give you the Amazon part number.
Seems there was a class action suit against Ford for this and the judge threw it out of court in favor of Ford to various reasons.
Jeep has the same problem.

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Old 01-15-2020, 07:15 AM   #26
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Jeep has the same problem.

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That is true. I replace all the lug nuts with the Amazon SS nuts. If you have trouble getting the old nuts off, an impact wrench or long bar should do the trick. Just make sure you have a tight socket! A little WD 40 won't hurt!
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:24 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Hillcountry View Post
While we’re on the subject of dealerships, the one I go to for my Ford service has been pretty good and fairly consistent. Last oil change they came into the lounge to get me and had a list as long as my arm of “scheduled maintenance” work that they “suggested” I get done. No thanks l, just oil change and tire rotation please. No argument. Before they were done the guy comes out again to tell me that “my tire’s lug nuts were swollen” and they were having a hard time removing them...new lug nuts were suggested at a cost of $200. I told him that was baloney and I have never heard of such a thing.
Well I went back to the lounge and looked it up on my phone and sure enough some Ford models have this problem because the lug nuts are steel with chrome plated “cover” on them and over time they build up corrosion and swell. Damn!
So I went online and researched and found solid steel, chrome plated direct replacement lug nuts (set if 24) for my truck. So this past weekend with the nice weather I set out to swap my swollen nuts with the new ones.
Not a good time. I managed to get 2 nuts swapped somehow and stripped the “covers” on 2 more before I quit. The problem is the correct sized lug wrench won’t fit over the swollen nuts and the next size socket tends to spin the cover and create a non removable nut. I packed up my new nuts and went to the dealer to see if they would swap them and rotate my tires ( since they did not do it last service)
I spoke to a service manager and told the tale of woe and he said “we’ll take care of it but will charge labor.” I said how much? He said $50 or so.
Well long story short they only charged me for a normal tire rotation ($24) and swapped out the bad nuts. I was very happy!
Ford F-150 (and other model) owners beware of the “swollen lug nuts” issue and if you want the replacement nuts, PM me and I’ll give you the Amazon part number.
Seems there was a class action suit against Ford for this and the judge threw it out of court in favor of Ford to various reasons.
Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge, and Jeeps all have the same problem. They can be tough to remove if you don't have the right tools.
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:35 AM   #28
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I recently took my Caddy to a Concord area dealership for an oil change. They do the “multi-point” inspection, and notate on the report that all is well. Air filter, cabin air filter, both good. 2 weeks later I brought it back in for a recall to be performed. Again they do their multi-point inspection. This time they note that the air filter and cabin air filter are almost in need of replacing. So you’re telling me that the air filter and cabin air filter all of a sudden need to be replaced? Sure.
Doesn’t matter much to me, as both of those are very easy to perform in my own garage. But still frustrating that they do this.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:16 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Hillcountry View Post
While we’re on the subject of dealerships, the one I go to for my Ford service has been pretty good and fairly consistent. Last oil change they came into the lounge to get me and had a list as long as my arm of “scheduled maintenance” work that they “suggested” I get done. No thanks l, just oil change and tire rotation please. No argument. Before they were done the guy comes out again to tell me that “my tire’s lug nuts were swollen” and they were having a hard time removing them...new lug nuts were suggested at a cost of $200. I told him that was baloney and I have never heard of such a thing.
Well I went back to the lounge and looked it up on my phone and sure enough some Ford models have this problem because the lug nuts are steel with chrome plated “cover” on them and over time they build up corrosion and swell. Damn!
So I went online and researched and found solid steel, chrome plated direct replacement lug nuts (set if 24) for my truck. So this past weekend with the nice weather I set out to swap my swollen nuts with the new ones.
Not a good time. I managed to get 2 nuts swapped somehow and stripped the “covers” on 2 more before I quit. The problem is the correct sized lug wrench won’t fit over the swollen nuts and the next size socket tends to spin the cover and create a non removable nut. I packed up my new nuts and went to the dealer to see if they would swap them and rotate my tires ( since they did not do it last service)
I spoke to a service manager and told the tale of woe and he said “we’ll take care of it but will charge labor.” I said how much? He said $50 or so.
Well long story short they only charged me for a normal tire rotation ($24) and swapped out the bad nuts. I was very happy!
Ford F-150 (and other model) owners beware of the “swollen lug nuts” issue and if you want the replacement nuts, PM me and I’ll give you the Amazon part number.
Seems there was a class action suit against Ford for this and the judge threw it out of court in favor of Ford to various reasons.

Sounds like a thin wall, 6 point impact socket with a good pneumatic impact wrench would be required to remove these "swollen nuts"!

Dan
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:45 AM   #30
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Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge, and Jeeps all have the same problem. They can be tough to remove if you don't have the right tools.
Interesting. I'll have to advise my several neighbors with F-150s.

In the past, I've broken a "breaker bar" (at the lug) and two lug "cross" wrenches. (They don't make them like they used to). Craftsman doesn't sell cross-type wrenches.

Since the broken ends still fit, I saved the broken ends (19mm), ground three "flats" on the end, and could then fit them into a 1/2" drill chuck.

"WD-40" is good, "Blaster" is better--and a lot cheaper than "Kroil". ATF, mixed with kerosene, has proved itself in the U.S. Navy.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:37 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by ishoot308 View Post
Sounds like a thin wall, 6 point impact socket with a good pneumatic impact wrench would be required to remove these "swollen nuts"!

Dan
We usually cut the chrome covers off with an air chisel and then use a smaller 6pt socket to take them off. The Chrysler and Jeeps are usually 19MM and when we cut off the chrome we use an 18MM. Fords are larger, 21MM.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:51 AM   #32
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Wondering if someone can look into what WalMart has to offer to resolve this problem!


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Old 01-15-2020, 10:46 AM   #33
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After much checking it appears Tire Warehouse is the only game in town that can mount run-flats in house without having to farm it out or drive the vehicle somewhere offsite (ie: Concord).

They've hooked me up twice when needed at very fair pricing and very quick work, once with a tire I bought myself online and once from one I had them order.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:48 AM   #34
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That is true. I replace all the lug nuts with the Amazon SS nuts. If you have trouble getting the old nuts off, an impact wrench or long bar should do the trick. Just make sure you have a tight socket! A little WD 40 won't hurt!
The first one I was able to get off got stuck in my "tight socket" such that I had to repair to the basement to put the socket in my vise and bang the nut out with a chisel...didn't come out easy.
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Old 01-15-2020, 01:38 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by ishoot308 View Post
Sounds like a thin wall, 6 point impact socket with a good pneumatic impact wrench would be required to remove these "swollen nuts"!
Dan
I'm surprised there hasn't been some sort of recall on these lug nuts. I'd hate to be trying to fix a tire, at night, on the side of the road.
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Old 01-15-2020, 02:54 PM   #36
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I'm surprised there hasn't been some sort of recall on these lug nuts. I'd hate to be trying to fix a tire, at night, on the side of the road.
Ford (and others) are dropping the ball intentionally and blatantly. After all...the judge dismissed the case against them!
Lots of people, I'm sure, have been stranded roadside (and will continue to be) for the foreseeable future as well as having to shell out high $$ to remedy the problem once discovered. I had never heard of it until my fiasco a few weeks ago and I'm a diehard Ford guy.
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:25 AM   #37
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Wondering if someone can look into what WalMart has to offer to resolve this problem!
With a $15 propane torch, carefully heat up the five lug nuts and studs, get them hot but not super hot ...... and then carefully spritz the nuts/stud area with the little red sprayer tube that comes with the Super Tech Lubricant-8 ounces-$1.97 ..... http://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech...-8-oz/21618346 ......the heated steel will draw the spray lube into the threads on the studs ..... and then use a large 4-way lug nut wrench using both hands and arms to put some muscle on the stuck nuts.

After it turns the initial small amount, then spray it again and it WILL loosen up.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:48 PM   #38
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Thumbs down

I've been servicing care and trucks going on 50 years now and I don't recommend FLL's method, esp if you have nice aluminum rims!

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Old 01-16-2020, 01:13 PM   #39
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An el cheapo propane torch is about 2000-f degrees, while an acetylene torch is about 6000-f degrees, plus you can always spray down the aluminum wheel rim with water before applying heat to the lug nut, and keep the flame to a low pencil point so's just the lug nut gets heated. Plus, it does not take too much heat to get the lubricant to get drawn up the threads inside the threaded lug nut.

Just a little bit of heat goes a long way, here, to make the lube work better.
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:34 PM   #40
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I'm sorry but taking heat to a wheel is not exactly great advice. The clearcoat on the aluminum wheels will take a hit for sure.

For swelled lug nuts, I've had good success using a nut extractor and a whole lot of hate and anger directed toward a 3' breaker bar.
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Old 01-16-2020, 09:20 PM   #41
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By using a propane torch with the flame set to a low level, it is not too difficult to apply the heat directly to the lug nut or lug bolt without applying the heat to the aluminum wheel rim. Just a wee bit of flame heat, just enough to make the stuck fastener a wee bit warm will encourage and facilitate the Super Tech Lubricant to slide down along the threads of either the nut or the bolt which will help to loosen it up with a large 4-way lug wrench.

While blind-folded and with hands tied behind my back ..... I can undo the most stubborn lug nut every time ..... by this method ...... you understand! I am like sooooo gooood at this that I should go get myself a job working for Triple-A, the AAA, doing flat tire service calls.
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:33 PM   #42
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I've been servicing care and trucks going on 50 years now and I don't recommend FLL's method, esp if you have nice aluminum rims!
Correct

I've been lucky, so far my go to method when I have a hint or suspect that things are about to go wrong with a stubborn nut is the go to the next closest socket that is smaller even if its from a different set including metric's and hand fit it on to the nut to make sure it is the tightest fit you can possibly get. Even if I'm doing it by hand I use a high quality impact sockets.

As Biggd probably knows the biggest problem is knowing your going to have problems if you don't think a little be before you round over the nut and have two things to fix.
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Old 01-17-2020, 07:46 AM   #43
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Correct

I've been lucky, so far my go to method when I have a hint or suspect that things are about to go wrong with a stubborn nut is the go to the next closest socket that is smaller even if its from a different set including metric's and hand fit it on to the nut to make sure it is the tightest fit you can possibly get. Even if I'm doing it by hand I use a high quality impact sockets.

As Biggd probably knows the biggest problem is knowing your going to have problems if you don't think a little be before you round over the nut and have two things to fix.
They do sell extractor sockets that are made specifically for getting off rounded lug nuts. You hammer them on and they grip the rounded socket. Sometimes we have to use these after the owners tried to get them off and there's no hex left but it's a PITA!
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Old 01-17-2020, 07:49 AM   #44
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By using a propane torch with the flame set to a low level, it is not too difficult to apply the heat directly to the lug nut or lug bolt without applying the heat to the aluminum wheel rim. Just a wee bit of flame heat, just enough to make the stuck fastener a wee bit warm will encourage and facilitate the Super Tech Lubricant to slide down along the threads of either the nut or the bolt which will help to loosen it up with a large 4-way lug wrench.

While blind-folded and with hands tied behind my back ..... I can undo the most stubborn lug nut every time ..... by this method ...... you understand! I am like sooooo gooood at this that I should go get myself a job working for Triple-A, the AAA, doing flat tire service calls.
Ya, you should do that! Get a job, that is.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:19 AM   #45
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They do sell extractor sockets that are made specifically for getting off rounded lug nuts. You hammer them on and they grip the rounded socket. Sometimes we have to use these after the owners tried to get them off and there's no hex left but it's a PITA!
So how do you get the bad nut out of the socket to use it again? Like I said before, one of mine had to be bashed out with a hammer and chisel. I considered hammering the oversized socket onto the nut but reconsidered because of this reason.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:30 AM   #46
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Do an image search for nut extractor. You'll see the reverse fluting on the socket. It grips the nut in the loosening direction and will release it with a couple taps against a hard surface.

EDIT: You will want to hammer the extractor onto the nut then go to town on the loosening.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:57 AM   #47
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Default I started reading this thread for the dealer info...

When I got about half way through, I began wincing with pain. First time having this reaction reading "The Forum"...
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:06 AM   #48
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So how do you get the bad nut out of the socket to use it again? Like I said before, one of mine had to be bashed out with a hammer and chisel. I considered hammering the oversized socket onto the nut but reconsidered because of this reason.
When using the extractors I usually put the nut in a vise and turn it the opposite way, tighten, and it comes right out. You can't do that if you just pound a smaller socket on.
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Old 01-17-2020, 07:48 PM   #49
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So how do you get the bad nut out of the socket to use it again? Like I said before, one of mine had to be bashed out with a hammer and chisel. I considered hammering the oversized socket onto the nut but reconsidered because of this reason.
Thread a spare, same-sized, bolt in from the opposite direction, rest the socket on an open vise, pipe, or larger socket, and drive the nut out.
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:02 AM   #50
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Thread a spare, same-sized, bolt in from the opposite direction, rest the socket on an open vise, pipe, or larger socket, and drive the nut out.
These lugnuts are only open on one end. Think of them more as a nut/cap.

Anyway my problem has been solved and I won’t have to deal with it as long as I have this truck.
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:31 AM   #51
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Anyway my problem has been solved and I won’t have to deal with it as long as I have this truck.
Just left the truck on jackstands in the driveway, eh?
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Old 01-18-2020, 12:47 PM   #52
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Red face Fixed!

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Just left the truck on jackstands in the driveway, eh?
All the studs are broken off...
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Old 01-18-2020, 12:49 PM   #53
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Just left the truck on jackstands in the driveway, eh?
I don't "catch" your drift...probably a Ford vs Chevy comment?
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:24 PM   #54
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For those that don't know, tires actually have a date of manufacture. Most reputable places will NOT sell tires that have aged more than 2 years or remount past 6 years as this is the recommended tire life. Most of these "discount" chains, Tire Warehouse, VIP, Town Fair Tire, Walmart etc.... buy massive quantities of tires that are aged 2-3+ years and fire sale them at cheap prices, significantly undercutting everyone else for the exact same tire. Passing their savings on to the customer huh? This is both potentially dangerous and dishonest.

When working as a mechanic at a dealership we were not allowed to mount tires that had aged more than 1 year. This is to ensure the customer can take advantage of the full MFG warranty which often times expires within 2-3 years of the date of manufacture. One of the reasons discount chains try to upsell you a separate 'warranty' is they know many if not all the tires they are selling are at or already beyond the standard MFG warranty. They won't tell you this, not until you have a problem and this is regardless of how long they have been on the vehicle or mileage on the tire.

The purpose of this is to ensure the integrity of the tire as they do break down with age, it's NOT just about how much tread is visible.

The DOT has actually been lobbied to mandate an expiration date as data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration shows tires over 6 years old are highly susceptible to failure. Some manufacturers are already starting to stamp their tires with expiration dates on their own. Probably for liability.

I always check the date codes on the new tires that have been put on my vehicles.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:51 AM   #55
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Default ....... Goodyear Viva-3's

Goodyear Viva-3 tires are only sold locally at the Walmart's in Tilton and Plymouth.

Unless you have a wicked steep driveway or live off the grid somewhere, way down a dirt road in Moultonborough, you don't really need snow tires for driving these here parts in central New Hampshire ...... a-yuh! ...... Walmart Goodyear Viva-3 all season tires will get you there without the very noisy snow tire treads that wear out fast.

Plus, when you buy all four tires from Walmart they will do freebie tire rotations on your car as long you have the tires. So's, while getting a $19.88 pit stop oil change, 5-qts Quaker State oil and a new oil filter, you get the tires rotated, no-charge, and have a k-cup of donut shop regular, on the house, there, at Walmart.

If Walmart was a little smarter, they would have a tray of free, chocolate covered, Boston cream filled donuts for their early morning, 7-8am customers ....... just a suggestion, here, and they would probably sell more of those incredibly excellent Viva-3 tires.

All tires are round and black, but only Walmart has the Goodyear Viva-3!
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:12 AM   #56
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Goodyear Viva-3 tires are only sold locally at the Walmart's in Tilton and Plymouth.

Unless you have a wicked steep driveway or live off the grid somewhere, way down a dirt road in Moultonborough, you don't really need snow tires for driving these here parts in central New Hampshire ...... a-yuh! ...... Walmart Goodyear Viva-3 all season tires will get you there without the very noisy snow tire treads that wear out fast.

Plus, when you buy all four tires from Walmart they will do freebie tire rotations on your car as long you have the tires. So's, while getting a $19.88 pit stop oil change, 5-qts Quaker State oil and a new oil filter, you get the tires rotated, no-charge, and have a k-cup of donut shop regular, on the house, there, at Walmart.

If Walmart was a little smarter, they would have a tray of free, chocolate covered, Boston cream filled donuts for their early morning, 7-8am customers ....... just a suggestion, here, and they would probably sell more of those incredibly excellent Viva-3 tires.

All tires are round and black, but only Walmart has the Goodyear Viva-3!

That tire, the speed and UTQG rating alone indicates they are garbage - not that the overwhelmingly negative professional reviews of them prove that point as well. Shocking it is a Wal-Mart exclusive that says a lot just in and of itself.

LOL once again you show your combined ignorance and obsession with price point.
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:59 AM   #57
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Driving my 2014, made in Japan, econo-box, with about 190,000-miles, all the miles except for the new factory original tires have been driven with Viva-3, which cost $75-each at Walmart, installed, or $65-tire plus $10-install and dispose of old tire.

Fastest I ever drive is 71-mph, on Rt-93, and the Viva 3 will last for about 25,000 miles, and I always get them rotated for free with every oil change.

Am still on the original four spark plugs and continuous rubber belt so I probably need to replace the spark plugs and maybe the belt.

www.rockauto.com is where I go for parts, like a six dollar pcv valve and for original style hub caps that have rolled off and been lost, and to Walmart for wiper blades and replacement light bulbs. There's a huge difference between the cheapest wiper blades and the next price up with how much better it works, and ditto that for head light, light bulbs, too.
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:01 PM   #58
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Driving my 2014, made in Japan, econo-box, with about 190,000-miles, all the miles except for the new factory original tires have been driven with Viva-3, which cost $75-each at Walmart, installed, or $65-tire plus $10-install and dispose of old tire.

Fastest I ever drive is 71-mph, on Rt-93, and the Viva 3 will last for about 25,000 miles, and I always get them rotated for free with every oil change.

Am still on the original four spark plugs and continuous rubber belt so I probably need to replace the spark plugs and maybe the belt.

www.rockauto.com is where I go for parts, like a six dollar pcv valve and for original style hub caps that have rolled off and been lost, and to Walmart for wiper blades and replacement light bulbs. There's a huge difference between the cheapest wiper blades and the next price up with how much better it works, and ditto that for head light, light bulbs, too.
Well you must be darn proud of the fact you are getting 25K out of a set of tires that cost you $75 a piece. Congratulations. Reality is that is awful, downright dismal tread life and you are replacing tires 2 to 3 times more often than you should considering what you are driving. By the way, speed ratings on tires have NOTHING to do with how fast you drive on them.

Walmart loves the gullible like you, keeps you occupied\distracted with "free stuff" all while selling you garbage at massive markups, guaranteed to break or wear out quickly so you can come back and buy more more more. It's a retail "casino" built to screw the masses and the house wins big every time. Walmart stock holders thank you for your continued loyal patronage.
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:05 PM   #59
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As far as I know, the new 2020 Corolla sedan 4-door is not made with a 5-speed manual any more, plus it has a huge computer style screen in the center of the dash board, at eye level. So, that makes the new Corolla for $19,200 a total no-go for me.

Who knows, but when ever my car dies at 250,000 miles or something(?) maybe I can find a 2017 Corolla with a 5-speed manual and no big computer screen at Cupple's or at Blaudecki's or somewhere with 75000 miles for $7500 in maybe the year, 2022.

Helloooooooo 2022 ....... what you got???
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:13 PM   #60
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When working as a mechanic at a dealership we were not allowed to mount tires that had aged more than 1 year. This is to ensure the customer can take advantage of the full MFG warranty which often times expires within 2-3 years of the date of manufacture. One of the reasons discount chains try to upsell you a separate 'warranty' is they know many if not all the tires they are selling are at or already beyond the standard MFG warranty. They won't tell you this, not until you have a problem and this is regardless of how long they have been on the vehicle or mileage on the tire.
You must have had a great dealership. My in-law Toyota were fitted with Goodyear Assurance as OEM tires. They were garbage, only 20K on them. Notice the date of mfg were almost a decade ago. So the local dealership do not have the policy.
In-law replace the tires with the Weather Ready as I have recommended. There was a $200 factory rebate on a set of 4. The dealer claimed the discount is only from the Goodyear dealer, not them. A trip to Belknap and they told me the dealer should fill the papers for the rebate. Belknap also told me the dealer is known to 'pocket' customers rebates. Go figure!
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:19 PM   #61
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These lugnuts are only open on one end. Think of them more as a nut/cap.

Anyway my problem has been solved and I won’t have to deal with it as long as I have this truck.
I found them--listed as an "acorn" nut.
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:58 PM   #62
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I found them--listed as an "acorn" nut.
BIG acorns!
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Old 01-19-2020, 02:07 PM   #63
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BTW, I know Jeep has this issue because my wife was told by VIP that it was gonna cost $400 to fix. She called to ask, I said no--thinking maybe the last place we brought it had messed things up and that they would take care of it. Turned out it was this problem, so we got the part from the dealer--$10 or so for a bunch of them.

Interestingly, the replacements are not the same--they're standard nuts.

Also, we won't be going back to VIP.

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Old 01-19-2020, 02:47 PM   #64
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It takes about 5 minutes per wheel to back out the lug nuts, spread a little mix of grease and a dab of anti seize on the threads and put them back on. It inhibits rust from penetrating and forming on the threads freezing them in place. Can help but not necessarily prevent cross threading as well.

Just have to make 100% sure they are always hand torqued to the correct spec, in fact that should be done regardless. Most techs use torque sticks with an impact wrench which do not work reliably, especially when they are thrown around or dropped on the floor, ruining their calibration.
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Old 01-19-2020, 03:15 PM   #65
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Absolutely 100% correct.
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Old 01-19-2020, 07:57 PM   #66
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Well you must be darn proud of the fact you are getting 25K out of a set of tires that cost you $75 a piece. Congratulations. Reality is that is awful, downright dismal tread life and you are replacing tires 2 to 3 times more often than you should considering what you are driving. By the way, speed ratings on tires have NOTHING to do with how fast you drive on them.

Walmart loves the gullible like you, keeps you occupied\distracted with "free stuff" all while selling you garbage at massive markups, guaranteed to break or wear out quickly so you can come back and buy more more more. It's a retail "casino" built to screw the masses and the house wins big every time. Walmart stock holders thank you for your continued loyal patronage.
Exceed the ratings for very long, tire heats up--and pow!

https://www.ntb.com/info/a20022/what...e-speed-rating
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:09 PM   #67
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You people are all nuts!
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Old 01-20-2020, 01:07 PM   #68
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It takes about 5 minutes per wheel to back out the lug nuts, spread a little mix of grease and a dab of anti seize on the threads and put them back on. It inhibits rust from penetrating and forming on the threads freezing them in place. Can help but not necessarily prevent cross threading as well.

Just have to make 100% sure they are always hand torqued to the correct spec, in fact that should be done regardless. Most techs use torque sticks with an impact wrench which do not work reliably, especially when they are thrown around or dropped on the floor, ruining their calibration.
The lug nut issue I posted was about a chromed “cap” swelling and causing a slightly oversized nut. The normal lug wrench would not fit the nut resulting in the need to use a larger size socket which then would deform the soft cap making it difficult to remove. The threads on both the nut and stud were fine.
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:39 AM   #69
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Yep. Another story. This time from my neighbor.

Neighbor needs new tires.
Neighbor gets a valid coupon. The coupon states any participating brand new car dealership. Neighbor goes to new car dealership in Laconia and asks if they are a participating dealership. Yes.

Coupon states that participating dealership will price match any legitimate tire price within 100 miles. Six tire brands are listed on coupon. Neighbor goes to VIP in Laconia. VIP has the tire brand, name, and size listed in coupon. Neighbor gets a price for a tire. Just the tire at this point.

Neighbor goes to new car dealership and asks if they will match the VIP price. A picture/price/size/model name printout from computer. Well . . . they will if one brings in the specific tire model number of tire. Neighbor goes back to VIP and obtains specific tire number - not name of the tire but a specific model number/size. Neighbor goes back to Laconia new car dealership. Provides the specific tire model number. No . . . "we have the number already". We need the specific model number on VIP stationary. Back to VIP tire and gets the specific tire model number on VIP stationary. Back to new Laconia new car dealership. OK. Yes. They will match the price.

Neighbor makes an appointment to buy and have tires put on vehicle. Mounting and balancing of course are always extra anyplace.

The tire pressure monitoring system is working properly. But since the car is 10 years old. Neighbor purchases new TPMS sensors on line. The exact same as the ones on the vehicle OEM. Neighbor telephones the manufacturer of the TPMS sensors to make sure that there is no programing needed. All that is needed is to "mate" the sensors to the vehicle. The new TPMS sensors are preprogrammed to her vehicle. The TPMS sensors are the exact same as on vehicle before new tires put on.

The tires had to be ordered. So an appointment is made.

Neighbor goes back to Laconia new car dealership. Neighbor asks for mechanic to save old TPMS sensors to be used as spares if needed. Service writer comes to neighbor and states that mechanic broke one of the sensors. Taking it off rim. Rusted she states. Neighbor asks to view all of the old sensors. There is no rust as they are made out of metal that does not rust.

Then the Laconia service writer goes to neighbor in waiting room and states that she needs an alignment. A colored printout shows that vehicle is out of alignment.

BUT. Neighbor went to Tire Warehouse two days earlier and had the car - all wheels aligned. Neighbor has the alignment printout from Tire Warehouse.

No new alignment is requested at the Laconian new car dealership. When all was completed. Neighbor asks to speak with the person at the Laconia new car dealership that checked the alignment. As there is a difference of opinion as the whether the car needs an alignment or not. Well . . . apparently, the Laconia new car dealership never put neighbors car on the alignment machine. All that the Laconia new car dealership does is "take a picture" of the car as it is driven into the dealership service area. A picture? Yes. And that picture machine will state if car is in alignment or not in alignment. At that point the neighbor shows the service writer the printout from Tire Warehouse on Union Ave. that states that vehicle just had an alignment. And No - the neighbor did not hit any curbs or potholes in the last two days.

So the neighbor states to the Laconia new car dealership that either their picture alignment machine is not working properly OR the Tire Warehouse alignment is not working properly. Well . . . the Laconia new car dealership asks if they can drive the completed car through the picture machine again to double check. Opps. The Laconia new car dealership alignment picture machine must have made a mistake the first time through - as the completed car with new tires passes 100% in alignment. Sorry . . . my neighbor is told.

The Laconia new car dealership service person states that their shop cannot "mate" the new TPMS sensors. The TPMS dash light is ON.

A quick trip down to Tire Warehouse on Union Ave. and the new sensors are mated within minutes at NO CHARGE. Even though the tires were purchased at the Laconia new car dealership.

The vehicle now drives straight and true with the TPMS light OFF.

Is the alignment thing a scam or was this a legitimate mistake by the Laconia new car dealership machine?

And to add to this. Neighbor did not check receipt if the Laconia new car dealership matched the VIP tire price - as there was a previous discussion and agreement as to price of tires. Opps. The Laconia new car dealership had NOT matched the VIP tire price. The Laconia new car dealership had charged full retail for the new tires. Negating the previous agreed upon price of the tires.

No, the name of the Laconia new car dealership will not be made. So that question need not be asked. Or won't be answered. Reach your own conclusions.
The only conclusion I reached from this dissertation is that you need a new neighbor.
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