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Old 04-08-2021, 05:27 PM   #1
MIKE RGR
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Default Gas station gas and lake gas

Hello All
Great weather today,,be in the boat soon
Question about gas
Is there a difference in gas that I would purchase from a marina on the lake
and
Gas that I would buy at a gas station and treat with Startron or similar
and
Is there an advantage to using a higher octane
The motor in question is a 2020 Yamaha 70
I look forward to hearing the responses
Thanks and take care
mike
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Old 04-08-2021, 06:10 PM   #2
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I asked this last year re: my new jetski. The overall answer was that marina fuel is treated and convenient, that's it. The treatment only really mattered if sitting for a bit.

My plan, then, was to tow my ski the few miles to the gas station and fill up there for $1.50-$2 less per gallon.

I didn't. Ever. It's just so much more convenient to grab it on my way back, BUT if I were trailering it from place to place, I'd absolutely use "regular" gas and treat it.

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Old 04-08-2021, 08:57 PM   #3
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Default Octane

The octane rating at most marinas is 89, most gas stations "regular " is 87.

At the gas station, get the 89 octane, middle grade, treat it with the ethanol treatment of your choice, and enjoy.

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Old 04-08-2021, 09:49 PM   #4
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I am a fan of getting ValvTect gas at the marinas. There are a bunch of locations around the lake that sell it. In addition to the additive the tanks are tested as well. Pretty sure the gas is good for up to a year with no other additives.

http://www.valvtect.com/marina_search.asp

Select New Hampshire on the above link and it will tell you who has it.
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Old 04-08-2021, 09:56 PM   #5
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I don't believe that marina fuel is "treated" or anything different than the gas you can get at a gas station.

Although some marinas tell you that they are selling the mid-grade gas instead of just regular gas, in many cases I doubt that too. I just think it is an excuse to charge more for regular gas. Pardon me for being a skeptic.

As with cars, buying any more octane than is required by the engine manufacturer is a waste of money.

People who always buy high octane gas for their car that calls for regular gas are only accomplishing two things:Wasting money and fooling themselves. It accomplishes nothing.

I have had boats that hold anywhere from 40 to 240 gallons of gas. Any time that they have been moved on a trailer, and pass a gas station, I fill them with gas and it is always just regular. There is no need to spend another nickel and they run fine.

The only time I ever treat gas is to put Sta-Bil in the last tank full prior to winter. I could be wrong, but this has worked for me for the last 50 years so I think I will stick with it!
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Old 04-09-2021, 12:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
I don't believe that marina fuel is "treated" or anything different than the gas you can get at a gas station.

Although some marinas tell you that they are selling the mid-grade gas instead of just regular gas, in many cases I doubt that too. I just think it is an excuse to charge more for regular gas. Pardon me for being a skeptic.

As with cars, buying any more octane than is required by the engine manufacturer is a waste of money.

People who always buy high octane gas for their car that calls for regular gas are only accomplishing two things:Wasting money and fooling themselves. It accomplishes nothing.

I have had boats that hold anywhere from 40 to 240 gallons of gas. Any time that they have been moved on a trailer, and pass a gas station, I fill them with gas and it is always just regular. There is no need to spend another nickel and they run fine.

The only time I ever treat gas is to put Sta-Bil in the last tank full prior to winter. I could be wrong, but this has worked for me for the last 50 years so I think I will stick with it!
There are few cars out there that need it, but most cars will adjust timing on the fly based on what you put in. Same with boat motors.

Marina probably has to display the octane legally somewhere.

I never used much gas so I just paid it for convenience. But yeah, if I can fill it up before it goes in the lake, you bet.

I'm sure the Marina's pay through the nose for insurance, extra testing etc.

I just put Sta-Bil in last tank too. Never had a problem. Two boats ~20 years each.
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Old 04-09-2021, 05:36 AM   #7
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Default 603

603 Oil (formerly Fullers) gas station on 25 in Moultonborough sells non ethanol gas now if anyone is looking.
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Old 04-09-2021, 05:41 AM   #8
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Thumbs up Early Bird 🐦 Gets The Worm...

It may pay to buy your gasoline early in the season.

Gasoline was so cheap last Autumn (less than $2), I bought 2 gallons just to clean [enamel] paint brushes in!

(Hadn't done that since the 1960s!)
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Old 04-09-2021, 06:59 AM   #9
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It may pay to buy your gasoline early in the season.

Gasoline was so cheap last Autumn (less than $2), I bought 2 gallons just to clean [enamel] paint brushes in!

(Hadn't done that since the 1960s!)
If you are buying gas at a gas station that is true. Prices are going up.

If you are buying gas at a marina, maybe not so much. The early birds will get the gas that has been sitting in the tanks since some time last year. I wouldn't expect a marina to sell you gas based on what they paid last year. I would expect them to sell gas at market price.

I fill my tanks to about 95% in the fall and add stabilizer. That leaves a lot less room in the tanks for condensation to occur but enough room for expansion and contraction based on the temperature. In the spring, by the time I use the first tankful I hope that the marinas have new gas in their tanks.
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Old 04-09-2021, 07:44 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by VitaBene View Post
603 Oil (formerly Fullers) gas station on 25 in Moultonborough sells non ethanol gas now if anyone is looking.
Thanks for this! Is that the place near the airport?

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Old 04-09-2021, 08:06 AM   #11
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Thanks for this! Is that the place near the airport?

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https://www.google.com/search?client...ltonborough+nh
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Old 04-09-2021, 08:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
I don't believe that marina fuel is "treated" or anything different than the gas you can get at a gas station.

Although some marinas tell you that they are selling the mid-grade gas instead of just regular gas, in many cases I doubt that too. I just think it is an excuse to charge more for regular gas. Pardon me for being a skeptic.

As with cars, buying any more octane than is required by the engine manufacturer is a waste of money.

People who always buy high octane gas for their car that calls for regular gas are only accomplishing two things:Wasting money and fooling themselves. It accomplishes nothing.

I have had boats that hold anywhere from 40 to 240 gallons of gas. Any time that they have been moved on a trailer, and pass a gas station, I fill them with gas and it is always just regular. There is no need to spend another nickel and they run fine.

The only time I ever treat gas is to put Sta-Bil in the last tank full prior to winter. I could be wrong, but this has worked for me for the last 50 years so I think I will stick with it!
Unless you have an older two stroke, then you need ethanol free gas.
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Old 04-09-2021, 09:44 AM   #13
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Some gas docks 'pre treat' their gasoline. Some don't. Most use 89 Octane, but there are a few with 93 Octane.

You can find out which ones pre-treat and which have 93 Octane by reviewing the gas dock listings on WinniGas.com

Some use ValvTect, some StarTron, and there is one that claims to use both (yes I asked them)!

I verified the information when I personally visited every gas dock on the lake and asked them about their gas.

I asked every gas dock to verify the information online via WinniGas.com and let me know if any corrections or changes are needed.

I'll ask everyone (yes, this means YOU) to please remember to report the fuel dock prices every time they visit or even simply ride past a gas dock. There is no reason to only wait for when you purchase fuel. It doesn't hurt to report a fuel price at anytime. It lets everyone know that the price is still valid, vs seeing a price that is a month old.

Most of the fuel prices are from last year. Hopefully people will start reporting the gas dock prices, please use WinniGas.com to keep us all informed.
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Old 04-09-2021, 04:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKE RGR View Post
Hello All
Great weather today,,be in the boat soon
Question about gas
Is there a difference in gas that I would purchase from a marina on the lake
and
Gas that I would buy at a gas station and treat with Startron or similar
and
Is there an advantage to using a higher octane
The motor in question is a 2020 Yamaha 70
I look forward to hearing the responses
Thanks and take care
mike
The manufacturer usually states a minimum octane to use, so if you can get 89 or higher real gas then use it. It will not hurt your outboard. The gas on the lake is the same unless it has been treated. Buy real gas if it's available and be done with it.
https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NH
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Old 04-09-2021, 04:33 PM   #15
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Whose stupid idea was ethanol anyway? It's been nothing but a pain in the neck! Now it's an industry monster that was created and can't be stopped.
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Old 04-09-2021, 09:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
I don't believe that marina fuel is "treated" or anything different than the gas you can get at a gas station.

Although some marinas tell you that they are selling the mid-grade gas instead of just regular gas, in many cases I doubt that too. I just think it is an excuse to charge more for regular gas. Pardon me for being a skeptic.

As with cars, buying any more octane than is required by the engine manufacturer is a waste of money.

People who always buy high octane gas for their car that calls for regular gas are only accomplishing two things:Wasting money and fooling themselves. It accomplishes nothing.

I have had boats that hold anywhere from 40 to 240 gallons of gas. Any time that they have been moved on a trailer, and pass a gas station, I fill them with gas and it is always just regular. There is no need to spend another nickel and they run fine.

The only time I ever treat gas is to put Sta-Bil in the last tank full prior to winter. I could be wrong, but this has worked for me for the last 50 years so I think I will stick with it!
Are you saying that all the marinas that say they are, are not using valve-tech?
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Old 04-10-2021, 07:26 AM   #17
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I am saying that in many cases I don't believe that you are getting what you are paying for. I think that is true in all sorts of consumer transactions.

How many people buy a pound of hamburg and take it home an weigh it to see if they really got a pound? How much more profit would a milk distributor make if they left 3% out of each gallon of milk? Do you think Volkswagen was the only company in history to try to cheat?

It would be pretty easy for a marina to tell you their gas is one type, such as mid grade octane, when it is not. I don't know of any consumers taking samples to a lab to test them to see if they are getting what they are paying for.

Again, pardon me for being a skeptic but I am not going through life with my eyes closed. No insult intended to anyone who chooses to think differently.
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Old 04-10-2021, 09:19 AM   #18
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Question Saving The Planet?

At what point would these products be added?


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Whose stupid idea was ethanol anyway? It's been nothing but a pain in the neck! Now it's an industry monster that was created and can't be stopped.
I tried to make sense of it at Wikipedia, but it's very complicated.

The answer will be found among the Interests of electric batteries, coal, emissions, greenhouse gases, UN, fracking, Brazil, Gulf of Mexico "Dead Zone", EPA, Iowa, fertilizer, AMTRAK, carbon credits, CARB, imported farm shrimp, Tony Bobulinski, starvation in Africa, and achieving US energy independence.

Brazil has made ALL their transportation interests run on ethanol 100%. But flattening the Amazon Forest to grow the crops necessary was required.

Fewer lawyers and more STEM-educated members of Congress would help.
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Old 04-10-2021, 12:40 PM   #19
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At what point would these products be added?


I tried to make sense of it at Wikipedia, but it's very complicated.

The answer will be found among the Interests of electric batteries, coal, emissions, greenhouse gases, UN, fracking, Brazil, Gulf of Mexico "Dead Zone", EPA, Iowa, fertilizer, AMTRAK, carbon credits, CARB, imported farm shrimp, Tony Bobulinski, starvation in Africa, and achieving US energy independence.

Brazil has made ALL their transportation interests run on ethanol 100%. But flattening the Amazon Forest to grow the crops necessary was required.

Fewer lawyers and more STEM-educated members of Congress would help.
You mean you can't see the forest for the trees?
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Old 04-11-2021, 05:50 AM   #20
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Question Bring Back 2-Stroke Engines?

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You mean you can't see the forest for the trees?
It gets worse.

Ethanol reduces particulates in the atmosphere.

Now that Science has nearly conquered particulates in the atmosphere, as of yesterday, Bill Gates has charted a "solar geo-engineering" course to ADD particulates to the atmosphere to combat Climate Change.

It would seem we need more coal-burning, more volcanoes, more jet-liners, more wildfires, and LESS ethanol...
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Old 04-11-2021, 07:52 AM   #21
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It gets worse.

Ethanol reduces particulates in the atmosphere.

Now that Science has nearly conquered particulates in the atmosphere, as of yesterday, Bill Gates has charted a "solar geo-engineering" course to ADD particulates to the atmosphere to combat Climate Change.

It would seem we need more coal-burning, more volcanoes, more jet-liners, more wildfires, and LESS ethanol...
We just can't leave things alone can we. Things have a way of adapting and taking care of themselves but those interfering big shots have to interfere. Bill Gates has done as much damage to this world as the government. Leave us alone!!
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Old 04-13-2021, 05:29 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
I don't believe that marina fuel is "treated" or anything different than the gas you can get at a gas station.

Although some marinas tell you that they are selling the mid-grade gas instead of just regular gas, in many cases I doubt that too. I just think it is an excuse to charge more for regular gas. Pardon me for being a skeptic.

As with cars, buying any more octane than is required by the engine manufacturer is a waste of money.

People who always buy high octane gas for their car that calls for regular gas are only accomplishing two things:Wasting money and fooling themselves. It accomplishes nothing.


I have had boats that hold anywhere from 40 to 240 gallons of gas. Any time that they have been moved on a trailer, and pass a gas station, I fill them with gas and it is always just regular. There is no need to spend another nickel and they run fine.

The only time I ever treat gas is to put Sta-Bil in the last tank full prior to winter. I could be wrong, but this has worked for me for the last 50 years so I think I will stick with it!
I donít believe this is true having talked with several marinas. the gas is treated. Iím not positive but I would think selling 87 octane Out of an 89 or 93 pump would be illegal.
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Old 04-13-2021, 05:35 AM   #23
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Whose stupid idea was ethanol anyway? It's been nothing but a pain in the neck! Now it's an industry monster that was created and can't be stopped.
Startron stops carburetor problems. Been using it for 25+ yrs and haven't had a problem yet. I also use K100 on the first and last tank of anything that sits in storage when it's out of season. K100 burns water better than startron, but I've been using startron for so long with no problems, I'm not going to change that. JMHO
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Old 04-13-2021, 07:47 AM   #24
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I donít believe this is true having talked with several marinas. the gas is treated. Iím not positive but I would think selling 87 octane Out of an 89 or 93 pump would be illegal.
A lot of things are illegal but the problems only occur when someone gets caught.
For years people used heating fuel with no road use tax in diesel vehicles. That became a little more difficult when they started dying the non taxed fuel so you could tell the difference. Now the fine is $10,000. (but it is free if you don't get caught).
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Startron stops carburetor problems. Been using it for 25+ yrs and haven't had a problem yet. I also use K100 on the first and last tank of anything that sits in storage when it's out of season. K100 burns water better than startron, but I've been using startron for so long with no problems, I'm not going to change that. JMHO
I understand what you are doing to be sure that you don't have any problems. But, I average 200 to 350 hours per year in boats or jet skis and pay no attention to treating the fuel except for Sta-Bil in the last tankful for anything that gets winterized.

I use whatever fuel is available from marinas (and gas stations on the road when the boats are on a trailer) and have never had a fuel related problem. That has worked well for over 50 years.

I sometimes wonder about all the hype and discussion regarding treated fuel. But I could be wrong.
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Old 04-13-2021, 02:35 PM   #25
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Default Non-ethanol

Sorry if I may have missed this info now or before on another thread but I wish one of the marinas on the lake sold non-ethanol. l don't know how much more it would cost but I'd sure buy it.
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Old 04-13-2021, 05:08 PM   #26
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Fortunately most of the new outboards in the higher HP are fuel injected and you don't have to worry about it, but if it has a carburetor, leaving ethanol fuel in the bowl much longer than 30 days may cost you. Don't ask me how I know... run the fuel out and drain the bowl.
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Old 04-13-2021, 07:43 PM   #27
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A lot of things are illegal but the problems only occur when someone gets caught.
For years people used heating fuel with no road use tax in diesel vehicles. That became a little more difficult when they started dying the non taxed fuel so you could tell the difference. Now the fine is $10,000. (but it is free if you don't get caught).

I understand what you are doing to be sure that you don't have any problems. But, I average 200 to 350 hours per year in boats or jet skis and pay no attention to treating the fuel except for Sta-Bil in the last tankful for anything that gets winterized.

I use whatever fuel is available from marinas (and gas stations on the road when the boats are on a trailer) and have never had a fuel related problem. That has worked well for over 50 years.

I sometimes wonder about all the hype and discussion regarding treated fuel. But I could be wrong.
To clarify, I don't treat EVERY tank of fuel in my seasonal toys, (boats, snowmobiles, motorcycles) when they are in the prime of the season, and getting used frequently. I just treat the first and maybe the second tank till i'm comfortable in knowing that the old fuel that sat in storage is used up. After that i just run straight fuel through them till the end of the season, and then I make sure that there is plenty of stabilizer in the tank the last time i use it to make sure the stabilizer gets in the entire fuel system instead of just being in the tank prior to going back into storage, even if it's fuel injected. Very similar to what you do except I just use startron and k100, and I always try to get the highest octane possible. Also, I do agree with the skepticism of Marina fuel being treated with any type of stabilizer. I would never have peace of mind thinking that I can trust the Marina fuel to treat my fuel system. That's my job.

However, all my small engine stuff gets treated with every tank because i just put the stabilizer in the gas cans i use to fill them up. That way I don't have to try to remember what has been treated, and what hasn't. Everything gets treated with every fill up, ie: lawnmower, snowblower, weed whacker, chain saw, etc, etc. I have NEVER had to clean a carburetor in anything I bought brand new. I have had a couple issues with stuff I bought used, but once cleaned and running, have never had another problem with them after treating them with startron.
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Old 04-13-2021, 07:55 PM   #28
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I don’t believe this is true having talked with several marinas. the gas is treated. I’m not positive but I would think selling 87 octane Out of an 89 or 93 pump would be illegal.
The EPA and the FTC govern octane ratings using the Petroleum Marketing Practices Act, and it is in fact illegal to sell fuel which does not match the advertised characteristics (both octane ratings and additives).

At the state level, under the Department of Agriculture, the Weights and Measures Division certifies and enforces that the pumps are providing consumers with a quantity of fuel that matches the quantity they are being charged for. Again, another area where it is illegal for filling stations to charge for a quantity other than what is being delivered.

I am certain both happen on occasion but truly believe those instances are the exception to the rule. Furthermore, when it does happen Id venture a guess that it is most often NOT due to malicious intention on the filling stations part. The legal repercussions far outweigh any short term monetary gain, and the damage of reputation to both the filling station and supplier has the potential to cause substantial long term loss.
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Old 04-13-2021, 09:47 PM   #29
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The EPA and the FTC govern octane ratings using the Petroleum Marketing Practices Act, and it is in fact illegal to sell fuel which does not match the advertised characteristics (both octane ratings and additives).

At the state level, under the Department of Agriculture, the Weights and Measures Division certifies and enforces that the pumps are providing consumers with a quantity of fuel that matches the quantity they are being charged for. Again, another area where it is illegal for filling stations to charge for a quantity other than what is being delivered.

I am certain both happen on occasion but truly believe those instances are the exception to the rule. Furthermore, when it does happen Id venture a guess that it is most often NOT due to malicious intention on the filling stations part. The legal repercussions far outweigh any short term monetary gain, and the damage of reputation to both the filling station and supplier has the potential to cause substantial long term loss.
Yes, it is illegal to sell fuel that does not match the advertised octane. You would have a cause of action against anyone or any company that misrepresented what they were selling you regardless of what the product or service was.

I am not aware of any city or town that performs octane rating testing. If you know of one it would be interesting information. I have never heard of a consumer that took a sample to a lab to have it tested but I am sure it could happen. How easy would it be for a marina to tell you that you were getting mid grade when it was actually regular? Who would know, except the more profitable marina?

I am very aware of a gas station that changed the pumps every night so that you got 9/10 of a gallon for every gallon the pump registered. It was a 24 hour station and during the day the correct volume settings were used. The reason the correct settings were used during the day was because the city employees only worked during the day. That included the Sealer of weights and Measures. That went on for many years.

The point is: Don't go through life with your eyes closed. If someone has an opportunity to put their hand in your pocket, they probably will!
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Old 04-14-2021, 04:29 PM   #30
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I don't believe that marina fuel is "treated" or anything different than the gas you can get at a gas station.

Although some marinas tell you that they are selling the mid-grade gas instead of just regular gas, in many cases I doubt that too. I just think it is an excuse to charge more for regular gas. Pardon me for being a skeptic.

As with cars, buying any more octane than is required by the engine manufacturer is a waste of money.

People who always buy high octane gas for their car that calls for regular gas are only accomplishing two things:Wasting money and fooling themselves. It accomplishes nothing.

I have had boats that hold anywhere from 40 to 240 gallons of gas. Any time that they have been moved on a trailer, and pass a gas station, I fill them with gas and it is always just regular. There is no need to spend another nickel and they run fine.

The only time I ever treat gas is to put Sta-Bil in the last tank full prior to winter. I could be wrong, but this has worked for me for the last 50 years so I think I will stick with it!
The automakers are always looking for an angle to make their cars easier to sell. One way is to advertise that you can run said vehicle on regular unleaded saving you lots of money at the pump. Way back in the 90s when I was in technical training at General Motors in Dedham....My instructor Roy Schonfeld did an entire day lesson on potential timing advance. In a nutshell the manufacturers build the engines with more timing advance than they will ever need. Then they run the advance all the way up until the Knock Sensor hears detonation and then they start to back out the timing until the knock goes away. Garbage gas?--very little timing advance. Higher octane? --- much more timing advance. More advance, more power. That is why what you are saying is true, they will run on anything.. just not at peak power. Not an opinion statement, I am ASE Master Tech certified and ASE L1 Advanced Engine Performance Certified as well. Biggd can vouch for my cred on this. So...Run what you like if you are satisfied with the engine's performance with said fuel. I'm just a little more particular about the food I give my engine.

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Old 04-17-2021, 02:47 PM   #31
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603 Oil (formerly Fullers) gas station on 25 in Moultonborough sells non ethanol gas now if anyone is looking.
Anyone know how much the ethanol free at 603 Oil is sold for?

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Old 04-18-2021, 09:48 AM   #32
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Default Please straighten me out...

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Anyone know how much the ethanol free at 603 Oil is sold for?

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I have a question that I have never been able to get a clear answer on, and it is this: What is better for an engine that the manufacturer recommends runs on a minimum of 91 octane and up? Ethanol free 89 or 90 octane, or 91 octane (and up), regular gas with ethanol in it? Most (if not all), ethanol free gas is 90 octane or less. I can't think of any place that has ethanol free gas with a higher octane than 90. Would love to get a definitive answer to this question. I have stayed away from ethanol free gas for my snowmobiles because of this "gray" area.
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Old 04-18-2021, 02:45 PM   #33
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Default it's all gas

Maybe 15yrs. ago, as I left Ambrose Marine with a full tank of fuel. The former owner noted that I was the first to fuel up that year. Did not make it 200 ft. "crapped out". Two days later and a $600.00 billing from them i was underway once again for the season!
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Old 04-19-2021, 05:50 PM   #34
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Called 603 Oil today: $3.99/gallon for ethanol free.

I only use it in my 2-stroke garden machines, but at $6+/quart in those cans, I'm gonna grab a gallon while heading to camp for the day Wednesday.

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Old 04-19-2021, 06:38 PM   #35
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I have a question that I have never been able to get a clear answer on, and it is this: What is better for an engine that the manufacturer recommends runs on a minimum of 91 octane and up? Ethanol free 89 or 90 octane, or 91 octane (and up), regular gas with ethanol in it? Most (if not all), ethanol free gas is 90 octane or less. I can't think of any place that has ethanol free gas with a higher octane than 90. Would love to get a definitive answer to this question. I have stayed away from ethanol free gas for my snowmobiles because of this "gray" area.

My Honda outboard suggests 91 octane, I contacted Honda marine and they said the 90 octane I could get was fine.
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