aquatic weeds

[Orion]

Has anyone else noticed the bumper crop of weeds this year? I'm not talking about invasive species. We've owned on Cow Island for 13 years now and when we first bought, there were NO weeds in our area at all. Over the past 10 years, there has been a proliferation of pipewort (spaghetti strings to surface) that has steadily increased over that period.

Another weed I really saw a lot of this year and very rarely before is pondweed (pickerel weed?), the curly-leaved plant that grows in about 6-8 feet of water and sometimes ends in a floater leaf or two on the surface.

I've close-in-cruised the shores of Long Island, Cow Island, Little Bear, Sandy, and Tuftonboro Neck and have seen an abundance of both of these along all those shores. Not sure about the rest of the lake. Does anyone know if this is cyclical and might diminish over a period or is it a one-way ever-increasing nuisance?

I believe if we had a drawdown like we had at the end of 2001, it might mitigate some of the pipewort, but not the pondweed, which is deeper.

[tis]

I noticed especially near my right had neighbors and wondered if part of it might be it might be because they don't have a boat any more to keep that stuff from growing. But if you noticed it in other places, it must be something else. Maybe it was all the rain??

[barefootbay]

How about decline in the water quality and gradual eutrophication as the cause ?

[Lakegeezer]

Those involved with milfoil locating and harvesting, say this was a bumper year for weeds. An aquatic plant expert from DES believes it is cyclical, but indeed; the pace of eutrophication is a challenge. Increased water runoff from buildings and roads provide nutriment rich sediment for weeds to grow in and failed septic systems and lawn fertilizer provide an extra dose of plant food. These are the primary causes of faster lake aging. Better public awareness along with individual responsibility is probably the best solution, because drastic solutions (like new regulations and expanded sewer) requires support for more government regulations or lots of money. The lake will continue to age, and we'll have some bumper weed crop years like this one, but hopefully not every year. The lake quality improved in the 80's after the sewer system went in for parts of the lake, but those who monitor lake quality know the battle is far from won.

[Coolbreeze]

Several factors play into this:
Lawn fertilizers
Geographic temperatures
Introduction from outside sources
The weeds have the growing conditions that are ideal to florish.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by Coolbreeze

Several factors play into this:
Lawn fertilizers
Geographic temperatures
Introduction from outside sources
The weeds have the growing conditions that are ideal to florish.

I know more than one that uses much fertilizer and state quite clearly that they don't give a d*mn about the lake. All they want is a nice lawn.
All know quite clearly that this causes damage to the lake. They just don't care.

More education is needed for these boobs.
Maybe the legislature should create a labeling law for fertilizer sold in NH.
Maybe the hardware stores and home centers could put signs up and also provide some education about use.
Put a tax on lawn fertilizer (Oh my God, not that).

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by songkrai

More education is needed for these boobs.
Maybe the legislature should create a labeling law for fertilizer sold in NH.
Maybe the hardware stores and home centers could put signs up and also provide some education about use.
Put a tax on lawn fertilizer (Oh my God, not that).

Or perhaps just more aggressively pursue those who do this under the current rules/laws. It's pretty easy to tell which waterfront lawns have been heavily fertilized. Lush, green, waterfront lawns are just not natural in this area, especially with the mostly sandy soils.

[pcmc]

Not to stereo type and not including all water front owners, but....

This was discussed before, imo, the lawns bleeding fertilizer into the lake won't change. The owners will just throw extra $$ at whom ever they need to in order to be left alone so they can proceed forward with their environmental blinders on.
All the warnings in the stores or on the bags won't affect a thing. People don't want to knowingly harm anything so if they don't read the warning.....or they will hire a company to handle the duties and ignore the issue altogether.
Again only an opinion,....many ways to look at this.

[wifi]

Taxes and fines have little effect on those that can afford it. I have a nearby neighbor that has violated just about every item of the CSPA, yet there is no action against him. There needs to be mandatory jail time, a state lien on their property or something to perhaps add the "inconvenience" these jokers will have to pay attention to.

[Lakegeezer]

There will always be scofflaws, but the problem is bigger than that. It would help if the hardware stores make it clear, and even advertised which bags of lawn treatments are ok for lakeside use. The nutrient load models assume that 10% of septic systems are failed, so water quality would improve if shorefront owners pumped their system a bit more often and replace failed systems. It would help if everyone in the Winnipesaukee watershed would slow rainwater down just a bit as it passes through their properties, so more would be absorbed into the ground. To misuse a phrase, "it takes a thousand drops of water".

There isn't funding or support for enforcement, unless there is a complaint. Few want to rat out their neighbors, but increased peer pressure and shame might be effective. Landscape companies that violate the fertilizer laws should be called out and reported to town officials and DES. They know better.

What else would work? How can watershed residents, weekenders, tourists and landscapers be efficiently educated to the cause and effect, and sparked to do their part. Discussion on the forum is a good start.

We'll never get the lake to the quality to what it would be if the land was undeveloped, but slowing down the decline might be possible if everyone does their part.

[Orion]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

There will always be scofflaws, but the problem is bigger than that. It would help if the hardware stores make it clear, and even advertised which bags of lawn treatments are ok for lakeside use.

Truly correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that ANY "fertilizer" that is good for lawns would be "good" for in-water plant growth as well. Seems like the so-called "natural" fertilizers aren't good for the lake either as they promote ALL plant growth. Perhaps the only acceptable lawn treatment might be PH adjustment with judicious application of lime, but I'm not even sure about that one.

[NHWakesurfer]

For what its worth Pipewort is native to our area. I did some research on it last year as I have some in front of our house and I wasn't sure what it was and if it was bad or not. Here is what I got from the research posted below. The last line says its a sign of good quality water. I hear alot of folks hammering on the fertilizer and rightfully so I'm sure that can't help But if you want to improve the lake get rid of the geese. They will cause way more damage than any lawn treatment. They can do alot of damage in a short peroiod of time.

Alternate Name:
Water button.
Habitat:
Shallow clear waters of
lakes and ponds.
Description:
Basal spiky leaves
with white septate roots. Flower
head on long talks (6-36 in. tall),
button-like, white. Perennial.
Identification Tips:
This plant
can easily be confused with
quillwort and water lobelia when
not in flower. When in flower, the
key distinction is the white but-
ton-like seed head of pipewort
when compared to the purpulish
nodding flower of the water lobe-
lia.
When not in flower, the key dis-
tinction from quillwort is that
pipewort has septate roots.
Plant Facts:
This species has long
been associated with good water
quality

[pcmc]

NHWakesurfer knowledge is best, nice post. About the geese...I agree 100% that geese are disgusting birds by their behaviors, but I guess I always figured a product of Mother Nature some how cancels it self out. By that I mean most animals eat fairly healthy and their waste seems to biodegrade naturally in a reasonable amount of time with rain, weather, and Mother Nature herself helping the process. Geese are disgusting because they relieve themselves no matter where they are making horrible messes on beaches, in parks and yards, ect...as do the majority of animals(maybe some humans in that mix too).
I guess I don't see how the wild life of the world haven't made this place toxic with there waste. Nature seems to filter everything out eventually.
Nothing new, but all worldly issues seem to be human driven. Hey, I can't wait too sink my teeth into a nice lab grown steak or fish that is now being sent to China for processing then shipped back. I can't help but think tainted fish will be mixed in as long the radiation doesn't exceed a certain level, and we will be told its ok to eat.
Sorry to get off track there, I guess concerns got the best of me.

[Orion]

Originally Posted by NHWakesurfer

For what its worth Pipewort is native to our area.

Yes, in my opening post I said I wasn't talking about invasive species, only the fact that these native plants (to the lake) are rapidly populating areas that had none and that it appears to be an explosive expansion over the last 2-3 years.

If we had no lawns extending to the water, we'd have fewer geese!

[pcmc]

I'm on the fence here.....
I feel our environment should take precedence over deep pockets and people who think how much harm can little'ol me cause.
But....
I also feel lawmakers aren't the "intelligent" solution to problems. Politics always has ulterior motives that seem to eventually create their own hidden issue.

So how do such important issues get addressed? Grandfathering past mistakes can't be allowed. If the lake is going to be helped, water front is water front and needs to be treated the same. One thing I'm not on the fence about is our own Government should invest in our home land and forget about throwing money around.

Laws, laws, and more laws aren't the answer, look at CT., this is a pathetic State. We have a law for everything and are one of the worst States to live.(imo. and whom ever I speak to.....)

( hope my grammar is correct, I missed a few mistakes in my past post, oops.)

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by pcmc

I also feel lawmakers aren't the "intelligent" solution to problems. Politics always has ulterior motives that seem to eventually create their own hidden issue.

Amen to that statement!

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Amen to that statement!

While I thanked you, I didn't mean to but couldn't remove it. I respectively disagree with your premise that politics aren't the intelligent solution. Our political system is designed to be a representation of the people. If lots of intelligent people get involved, then the politicians can make the right decisions. Instead, when it comes to environmental issues, too often it is indeed those with agendas that get involved, such as the builders and landscapers along with some that echo conspiracy theories (like UN agenda 21). This doesn't lead to what most people likely would like to have happen.

What's the answer then? Those that are making the decisions have to take the input they get, along with their best judgement and try to improve things. At the local level, there are people who really care about water quality, and I can't say enough good about NH's DES, but there is too little citizen involvement. The intelligence that we know is out there needs to get involved with innovative ideas to help fix our local issues.

[pcmc]

Hi Lakegeezer,
Understood regarding the mistaken thankyou, no worries.( I believe this was directed towards me)
My apologies for going off track with the thread.

I will give one example to try to explain my thought. (Please don't let this get carried away) Still fresh in my mind are Sandy Hook tragedies. With all of pressure to do something to stop this from ever happening again, a law for mandatory back ground checks was created. The shooter used his mothers guns and his mothers ammunition to do the crime. Imo, there is no connection as to how the law could have had any affect on the outcome. I will end the thought there as I am sorry for getting so far off track with the thread.

Is it the NHDES that would be head of a project like this.
Do the local town authorities communicates around the lake? It would be nice to see a simple regulation, around the lake or lakes) of what or how the shore line should be kept and maintained in order to benefit the lake.

I also realize towns have enough to do, so that was where I was asking how does an issue with a lakes condition get addressed and hopefully have changes made?

I'm not by any means an outsider that wants to invade your turf with guns blazing and try to push change. I would hope to get the wheels turning in everyone's heads and come up ways to better the lake, in this case.

[pcmc]

Early on Lakegeezer mentioned failed septic systems are a contributor to lake aging. I think we are all mostly aware of that, so is there anything enforced to keep them up and maintained?

Also, does pertain to immediate water front only or is there a known safe zone, distance wise, that is a concern to lake pollution?

One suggestion, please build off of it or knock it down.
To ensure some sort of track record could a software program annually ( or what ever is reasonable) open a free of charge permit to the affected properties within the safe zone of the water. The only way to close the permit is to have a licensed company service the septic and sign off on it. This could be accomplished via a smart phone, laptop, phone call to the building and inspections dept., ect.., while still at the property. If the septic fails, a report would be made, the permit left open, and a reasonable amount of time given for repairs. If action is not taken some sort of consequence is given. This could keep property from changing hands and issues left ignored.

Just a small thought to try to make a difference to big problem.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Orion

Yes, in my opening post I said I wasn't talking about invasive species, only the fact that these native plants (to the lake) are rapidly populating areas that had none and that it appears to be an explosive expansion over the last 2-3 years.

If we had no lawns extending to the water, we'd have fewer geese!

We had pipewort when my family got here almost 60 years ago. The pondwort has moved in, but worse is the accumulation of the mud that both prefer.

At nearby "pristine" lakes, I've noticed that shoreline White Pines hold back the rain-driven mud that gets relocated into the water. Back then, we lost all our marketable White Pines to a local developer.

We got MUD!

It's mostly shoreline Eastern Hemlocks that create the soil in the first place.

Hemlocks produce huge volumes of tiny needles. In un-trampled places, I can demonstrate how one's foot can sink down about a foot or more in Hemlock needles and "soil". What washes—or leafblower-driven—into the lake makes the squishy stuff that weeds love. How long before Hemlocks are discouraged along shorelines is anybody's guess.

• One calm day, I watched as a maintenance crew carefully raked a long Tuftonboro private beach, piled up that debris near a black plastic bag, then one of the crew got a shovel and heaved all that back into the lake!

• If a homeowner or spec-builder does everything "wrong" to make the property more saleable, there should be penalties.

• IMHO—as with the Moultonborough "firetower" debacle—mitigation should take place after the fact. I suggest putting a lien against the property when it next changes hands. (Say, 10% of the sales price as a penalty). And each time a property changes hands, a septic system inspection should be a part of the closing.

• OTOH, a reward should be in place for those who maintain an "above-average excess" of tree girth along their shoreline. Low-growing evergreens should also be rewarded with lower taxation.

Let the seller suffer the consequences of "A great view of the lake".

[MAXUM]

Septic systems are inspected for failure before any waterfront property changes hands, IE a site assessment. I also believe if a system is found in failure the DES is notified.

[Just Sold]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Septic systems are inspected for failure before any waterfront property changes hands, IE a site assessment. I also believe if a system is found in failure the DES is notified.

Not quite. They do not actually physically inspect the system to see if it is working or not.

See the site assesment form referenced below.

WDSSB10

2010
Selling Developed Waterfront Property
Site Assessment Study Required
Relevant Law: RSA 4:40A,
485A:2, 485A:39.
Relevant Adm. Rule: EnvWq 1025

Statutory Requirements Prior to executing a purchase and sale agreement for any “developed waterfront property” using a septic disposal system, an owner shall, at his expense, engage a permitted subsurface sewer or waste disposal system designer to perform an onsite assessment study.

“Developed waterfront property” means any parcel of land upon which stands a structure

suitable for either seasonal or yearround human occupancy, where such parcel of land is

contiguous to or within 200 feet of the reference line of a fresh water body, coastal waters, or a river, as defined in RSA 483B:4.
Note that a site assessment study must be conducted whenever any part of the property is within 200 feet of the reference line, not merely when the structure or septic disposal system is within 200 feet of the reference line.
The site assessment study is a report prepared by a DES permitted septic system designer that you as the seller hire to determine if your site meets the current standards for septic disposal systems established by DES.
The assessment originally had been required prior to listing or offering the waterfront property
for sale, but since 1993, it has been required prior to executing a purchase and sale agreement and must include an onsite inspection.

The site assessment form may be obtained from the Subsurface Systems Bureau, or online at
http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi...ite_assess.doc

For Further Information

If you have any questions concerning septic systems, contact DES Subsurface at (603) 2713501, or 29 Hazen Drive, PO Box 95, Concord, NH 033020095;
Fax: (603) 2716683;

http://des.nh.gov/organization/divis.../ssb/index.htm.

[pcmc]

Sorry Orion this thread is off of its original track.

If septic systems are such a large culprit to polluting the lake, why not for the sake of the lake (all lakes) make it mandatory to replace all systems with in a determined distance from the lake if the system is 30+ years old. Then no if, ands, or buts, later on if a system has aged 30 years it gets replaced again.
30 years is only a number estimating a life expectancy of a septic system.

I realize all would say you can't make me do that, and I can't afford that, but we are talking about water front properties....yes you can afford it.

What we can't afford is a polluted lake.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by pcmc

....we are talking about water front properties....yes you can afford it......

As a water front owner, yes, I can go to the bank (as anyone can) and apply for a loan, but as a Lakes Region wage earner, all and any excess $$ goes to pay taxes, there is nothing left at the end....

[Happy Gourmand]

Wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run for the towns to run sewage lines? Seems like that would solve a lot of issues. I know it's not a simple solution, and very costly, but, in the end, wouldn't it be cost effective?

[pcmc]

Originally Posted by wifi

As a water front owner, yes, I can go to the bank (as anyone can) and apply for a loan, but as a Lakes Region wage earner, all and any excess $$ goes to pay taxes, there is nothing left at the end....

Sorry wifi I hate stereo types too. My post did come come across too direct.
Forums never seem to be forgiving, there isn't a tone or attitude behind it, just conversation.
I was only thinking main land water front, hadn't figured island premiums.

I was just trying say if replacing old septic s would make a considerable improvement to the lake it would be money well spent.

[pcmc]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

Wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run for the towns to run sewage lines? Seems like that would solve a lot of issues. I know it's not a simple solution, and very costly, but, in the end, wouldn't it be cost effective?

Great question. I'm not familiar enough with how an operation like this would work, but I would think it would require a good deal of pumping stations around the lake as the lake is the low point. Emergency backup would be interesting in case of a break, or an over flow run off situation ever happened.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

Not quite. They do not actually physically inspect the system to see if it is working or not.

So I took a look at the site assessment that was done on my place prior to purchase, so technically you are correct in that the person that did it states that the "operation of the system cannot be verified" however it also states that the system "does not appear to be in failure". So I took that as a confirmation that as part of the assessment whoever does it at least makes sure there are no outward and obvious signs the system is no good. If that isn't a key part of the reason for having one done then it seems stupid to do it in the first place.

[mcdude]

The Winnipesaukee River Basin Program (WRBP) is the state-owned sewer system serving portions of the New Hampshire Lakes Region communities of Center Harbor, Moultonboro, Gilford, Meredith, Laconia, Belmont, Sanbornton, Northfield, Tilton, and Franklin. The WRBP's highly-regarded wastewater collection and treatment facilities, which include a treatment plant in Franklin and a maintenance facility in Laconia, are operated by employees of the state’s Department of Environmental Services (DES) on behalf of the communities benefiting from the facilities. A total of nearly $70 million has been spent to construct these facilities and about $2.7 million is spent each year to operate and maintain them. Much has been accomplished by the WRBP over the years.

25 for 25: How the Winnipesaukee River Basin Program Helped to Save the Lakes Region

http://des.nh.gov/organization/divisions/water/wrbb/

[wifi]

$70 million to develop current facilities, $2.7 to operate them, this is in yesteryear dollars. Does anyone know what percentage of lake front homes are served by this? I bet it doesn't even represent 3%. None of Moultonboro Neck or Meredith neck are served by the system, these are huge areas of lakefront.

I'd say even Obama or FLL's constant droning on this could summon the trillions in current dollars to do this. Yes, something should be done, but there is no instantaneous solution in today's (ie Obama's) broken economy, unless Walmart/China becomes a partner.

[SIKSUKR]

I question whether a failed septic is any harm to the lake if it stays contained in the system itself. When a septic fails its usually the leach field which clogs or collapses not allowing the effluent to leach into the ground. If the system doesn't leach at all and your tank becomes full and needs to be pumped frequently without overflowing, it would be my contention that the surrounding ground is LESS effected by waste water. It would work like a holding tank. Of course if the leaching media is clogged and the effluent tends to run somewhere else like towards the lake then that is an issue.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I question whether a failed septic is any harm to the lake if it stays contained in the system itself. When a septic fails its usually the leach field which clogs or collapses not allowing the effluent to leach into the ground. If the system doesn't leach at all and your tank becomes full and needs to be pumped frequently without overflowing, it would be my contention that the surrounding ground is LESS effected by waste water. It would work like a holding tank. Of course if the leaching media is clogged and the effluent tends to run somewhere else like towards the lake then that is an issue.

Yes, it makes sense that a frequently pumped septic system would contribute less phosphorus load than an ignored and failed system. However, the holding tank would have to be in good condition, and not a rotted out 55 gallon drum that never overflows. Systems over 50 years old are suspect. There is a test kit to check for leakage, but it would surprise me if many would take advantage of that.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by wifi

$70 million to develop current facilities, $2.7 to operate them, this is in yesteryear dollars. Does anyone know what percentage of lake front homes are served by this? I bet it doesn't even represent 3%. None of Moultonboro Neck or Meredith neck are served by the system, these are huge areas of lakefront.

I'd say even Obama or FLL's constant droning on this could summon the trillions in current dollars to do this. Yes, something should be done, but there is no instantaneous solution in today's (ie Obama's) broken economy, unless Walmart/China becomes a partner.

Not only do you have area's such as Moultonborough Neck and Meredith Neck that aren't serviced by the system... You have all the island properties for those towns as well.... Top that off with the fact the private homeowners probably had a choice to tie into the system, and I am sure their where a portion that opted not too.

[SunsetPointWentworth]

This could work.