Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Winnipesaukee Forums > General Discussion
Home Forums Gallery Webcams Blogs YouTube Channel Classifieds Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-11-2020, 12:19 PM   #1
hemlock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 52
Thanks: 1
Thanked 35 Times in 15 Posts
Default Island property prices

It seems to me that Island property prices have gone through the roof! As I look at listings it seems that 2-3 bedroom cottages are being priced in the 4-500 k range with some fancy places up to 900 k. Is this temporary or is it going to be the new normal?
hemlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2020, 12:38 PM   #2
Susie Cougar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Parrish, Florida
Posts: 524
Thanks: 227
Thanked 183 Times in 131 Posts
Default

That’s the thing with real estate, no one has a crystal ball and no one knows what will happen in the future. You can list your property for anything you want but the reality is that it’s only worth what someone will pay for it. Prices have been going up all around the lake. But next year it might be the complete opposite.
Susie Cougar is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Susie Cougar For This Useful Post:
Biggd (02-11-2020)
Old 02-11-2020, 12:51 PM   #3
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemlock View Post
It seems to me that Island property prices have gone through the roof! As I look at listings it seems that 2-3 bedroom cottages are being priced in the 4-500 k range with some fancy places up to 900 k. Is this temporary or is it going to be the new normal?
Listing prices are definitely up over the past few years. Seems as though waterfront even on an island is a limited commodity so they tend to ratchet in one direction and don't really seem to correct downwards as much as just stagnate.

Real estate prices in general have been on an upswing so generally speaking all property benefits as a result.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2020, 12:59 PM   #4
winterh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 229
Thanks: 21
Thanked 118 Times in 53 Posts
Default

I had a friend call me recently asking about lake Winni real estate. I have had several places over the years and he wanted some advice on pros and cons of various areas. I looked at listings and was shocked how few there are. Just 3 listings available in Wolfeboro. That seems like a crazy low number. I am sure a few more will come on in spring but still. That has to be driving the price. That and a great economy.
winterh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2020, 02:32 PM   #5
CowTimes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 139
Thanks: 9
Thanked 124 Times in 66 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemlock View Post
It seems to me that Island property prices have gone through the roof! As I look at listings it seems that 2-3 bedroom cottages are being priced in the 4-500 k range with some fancy places up to 900 k. Is this temporary or is it going to be the new normal?
As an island property owner, my unscientific observation is that island property values were significantly stagnant since the early 2000s until the last 3-4 years. So perhaps this is just the market catching up. There seems to have been a bit more island inventory this past year than the past couple years, which suggests that the higher prices are here to stay (vs. low inventory years where supply/demand would seem to drive up prices).

I would be interested to hear what realtors think. My perception has been island prices have been either stagnant or increasing over the last 20 years, but don’t think I’ve seen any indication that island prices have ever dropped significantly, even around the 2008 bust. If accurate, that would suggest the current prices are the new normal.

If the recent tax assessments in Moultonborough and Tuftonboro are any indication (huge increases on island properties this year), you’re not the only one taking notice of the higher prices...
CowTimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-11-2020, 02:42 PM   #6
Little Bear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 559
Thanks: 104
Thanked 237 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowTimes View Post
if the recent tax assessments in Moultonborough and Tuftonboro are any indication (huge increases on island properties this year), you’re not the only one taking notice of the higher prices...
Tuftonboro used fuzzy math for their recent assessments of island properties. I don't think they have any idea of the amount of abatements they'll be receiving from island owners by the March 1st deadline.
Little Bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2020, 03:04 PM   #7
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

There has also been a monumental shift in what is being built on the islands too. These island contractors can accommodate just about anything these days. So what you are seeing is old simply constructed "camps" being replaced by modern day houses with any amenity your wallet can pay for. That is really pushing prices north bound too.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2020, 03:40 PM   #8
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 3,986
Thanks: 1,200
Thanked 1,492 Times in 970 Posts
Default Low inventory

The inventory is low, in part because properties "sell" within the family. As long as the next generation can afford the taxes, nobody wants to sell. They may sell their mainland home in Kansas and move to Oklahoma, then to Rhode Island, all with no sentiment. But, no, no. Don't sell the camp.
The tax assessment for our camp on the south side of Welch hasn't changed much over the last several years, although the tax bill creeps up. Looking at the tax cards, the variations from one place to the next, vary based on frontage. Owning any back land does not change total value a lot.
You're right about $450-$500 K, at least for asking prices. You'd need to look at the "closed" pages of MLS to see actual sales price.
Add to the purchase price of the camp, the cost of a boat, often two, and mainland docking. The islands that have an association or restricted dock and parking are more valuable.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2020, 05:24 PM   #9
CowTimes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 139
Thanks: 9
Thanked 124 Times in 66 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
There has also been a monumental shift in what is being built on the islands too. These island contractors can accommodate just about anything these days. So what you are seeing is old simply constructed "camps" being replaced by modern day houses with any amenity your wallet can pay for. That is really pushing prices north bound too.
I just hope there is a ceiling to what the market will support for island properties. I can’t believe that there is a huge contingency of buyers willing to pay close to $1 million or above for a seasonal property that is only accessible by boat. The great part of island properties, in my view, has been, at least historically, that non-millionaires could have their own secluded part of the lake. Sure, it requires a boat, some (or a lot) of DIY prowess, and hauling everything/everyone to/from by boat, but that and the secluded nature of island living is what I actually value most about our camp.

I know that we can’t entirely prevent this type of gentrification from spreading to the islands as mainland property prices continue to sky rocket. I just hope that as many of these properties as possible stay as true “camps.”
CowTimes is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CowTimes For This Useful Post:
aopel (02-27-2020), KPW (02-12-2020)
Old 02-11-2020, 05:50 PM   #10
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowTimes View Post
I just hope there is a ceiling to what the market will support for island properties. I can’t believe that there is a huge contingency of buyers willing to pay close to $1 million or above for a seasonal property that is only accessible by boat. The great part of island properties, in my view, has been, at least historically, that non-millionaires could have their own secluded part of the lake. Sure, it requires a boat, some (or a lot) of DIY prowess, and hauling everything/everyone to/from by boat, but that and the secluded nature of island living is what I actually value most about our camp.

I know that we can’t entirely prevent this type of gentrification from spreading to the islands as mainland property prices continue to sky rocket. I just hope that as many of these properties as possible stay as true “camps.”
There are aspects of being on an island that will never change and those characteristics kept prices reasonable for those willing to live with the logistics of being out there. What it really comes down to is whether or not the ambiance, quiet, relative privacy and seclusion becomes it's most valuable quality. In a world where you can't seem to get away from it all, I've found that island time never changes much and nobody can just stop by and visit.

Values will go up over time, but I think relative to the mainland waterfront market it probably won't change a whole lot.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 07:05 AM   #11
dva
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 50
Thanks: 18
Thanked 17 Times in 7 Posts
Default Taxes

Wait to see the taxes after Bernie !!
dva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 07:33 AM   #12
Sundancer320
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 87
Thanks: 7
Thanked 34 Times in 17 Posts
Default

Bernie will crash the economy and the property prices will drop like a stone so you can then step in a pickup a great property.
Sundancer320 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sundancer320 For This Useful Post:
swnoel (02-12-2020), The Real BigGuy (02-12-2020)
Old 02-12-2020, 08:03 AM   #13
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,937
Thanks: 1,152
Thanked 1,957 Times in 1,209 Posts
Default

Remember how awesome things were with Bush's economy? So awesome to buy things at fractions of their worth at the expense of those struggling.

Don't worry, it's coming back soon enough!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
thinkxingu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 08:25 AM   #14
swnoel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 527
Thanks: 83
Thanked 194 Times in 118 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancer320 View Post
Bernie will crash the economy and the property prices will drop like a stone so you can then step in a pickup a great property.
Everything works in cycles... patience will get you the home you want at a 30-50% discount in the coming years. It really doesn't matter who's in office. Low interest rates has created this bubble.
swnoel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 08:30 AM   #15
swnoel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 527
Thanks: 83
Thanked 194 Times in 118 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkxingu View Post
So awesome to buy things at fractions of their worth at the expense of those struggling.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
That's been reality before I was born... people buy things they can't afford then lose it regularly. It's the fairy tale that everyone is college material and everyone should own their own home... both require effort and responsibility. By the way did anyone notice how many voted for free everything Bernie?
swnoel is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to swnoel For This Useful Post:
Little Bear (02-12-2020), Top-Water (02-26-2020)
Old 02-12-2020, 09:15 AM   #16
Garcia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 571
Thanks: 127
Thanked 257 Times in 160 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancer320 View Post
Bernie will crash the economy and the property prices will drop like a stone so you can then step in a pickup a great property.
What I find interesting, and frustrating, is the astronomical deficits that President Trump and the Republicans (who had a majority in the House and Senate for two years) have created. We will have to deal with it - and the economy will suffer at some point.

My guess is that island, and waterfront property in general, will be largely unaffected. There is a core population that is doing very well and is well positioned to weather an economic downturn. Those who are overextended and unable to make ends meet will have to sell at a loss, but my guess is that will be the exception rather than the rule. Even if people are forced to sell, I think there will be more buyers than property available, keeping prices where they are.

As for Bernie, like him or not, at least we know where he stands. Do I like what he stands for? Not really...

Bottom line, IMHO, is property values on the water will remain consistent and/or continue to rise. There is not going to be a dramatic decline in prices regardless of who is in power. If I'm wrong, I'm well positioned to step in and buy, but I'm not willing at current prices. I'm happy with what I have. I don't view my property as an investment to cash in, but instead a lifestyle choice to enjoy.
Garcia is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Garcia For This Useful Post:
aopel (02-27-2020)
Old 02-12-2020, 09:31 AM   #17
Major
Senior Member
 
Major's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 1,031
Thanks: 426
Thanked 973 Times in 407 Posts
Default

Yes, it is awesome. It is awesome to reward hard working people who save their money and invest in something when the time is right. Values of lakefront property, or vacation property in general, fluctuate wildly depending on the economy. It's been that way as long as I can remember. Some people buy high and sell low, some people buy low and sell high. It is childish to think that taking advantage of an economic downturn is depriving those individuals who invested high of their rightful reward. Those who bought high are adults and understood the risks involved. It is not our problem that they have to sell for a loss.

My wife and I are planning to take advantage of the next economic downturn, which may not happen for another four years or so. In the meantime, we will continue to save for our winter home in South Florida!
Major is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Major For This Useful Post:
TiltonBB (02-13-2020)
Old 02-12-2020, 09:31 AM   #18
Pineedles
Senior Member
 
Pineedles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Moultonborough & CT
Posts: 2,534
Thanks: 1,058
Thanked 652 Times in 363 Posts
Default

It is funny how real estate prices move in the Lakes Region. Lake cottage worth $1,000 in 1892 would sell for $1 million today. But in the late 1980s that place was worth only $250k. And in early 1960s only worth $25,000. Go figure.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
Pineedles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 09:35 AM   #19
Major
Senior Member
 
Major's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 1,031
Thanks: 426
Thanked 973 Times in 407 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garcia View Post
What I find interesting, and frustrating, is the astronomical deficits that President Trump and the Republicans (who had a majority in the House and Senate for two years) have created. We will have to deal with it - and the economy will suffer at some point.
I love how liberals rewrite history. The federal deficit doubled under Bush II (roughly $4 Trillion to $8 Trillion), and then doubled under Obama ($8 Trillion to $16 Trillion). Certainly both parties have had a hand in the federal deficit, but to claim that Trump and Republicans caused it is simply wrong.

By the way, I love how the left now is so concerned about the deficit now that the economy is supercharged. I didn't hear much from them between 2008 and 2016.
Major is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Major For This Useful Post:
CTYankee (02-13-2020), Doobs41378 (02-20-2020), Old Sarge (02-24-2020), swnoel (02-12-2020), TiltonBB (02-13-2020)
Old 02-12-2020, 09:47 AM   #20
tbonies
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Anchorage, Al
Posts: 141
Thanks: 56
Thanked 59 Times in 30 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancer320 View Post
Bernie will crash the economy and the property prices will drop like a stone so you can then step in a pickup a great property.
Funny. The Bern (and Warren... and Petey...) is unelectable so no need to worry about his impact on lake property. If beating Trump is the goal, Klobuchar should be the slam dunk candidate. She would beat him like a drum. But... the Democrats have ample opportunity to screw this up, as they usually do.
tbonies is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tbonies For This Useful Post:
MRD (02-12-2020)
Old 02-12-2020, 09:48 AM   #21
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,729
Thanks: 1,941
Thanked 1,065 Times in 672 Posts
Thumbs down

Well this thread has gone in the crapper!
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Biggd For This Useful Post:
CaptT820 (02-13-2020), gillygirl (02-13-2020), JEEPONLY (02-13-2020), luckypete (02-13-2020), mswlogo (07-27-2020), Paugus Bay Resident (02-18-2020), Pricestavern (02-12-2020), rander7823 (02-12-2020), winnipiseogee (02-13-2020)
Old 02-12-2020, 10:19 AM   #22
Garcia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 571
Thanks: 127
Thanked 257 Times in 160 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Major View Post
I love how liberals rewrite history. The federal deficit doubled under Bush II (roughly $4 Trillion to $8 Trillion), and then doubled under Obama ($8 Trillion to $16 Trillion). Certainly both parties have had a hand in the federal deficit, but to claim that Trump and Republicans caused it is simply wrong.

By the way, I love how the left now is so concerned about the deficit now that the economy is supercharged. I didn't hear much from them between 2008 and 2016.
Just to be clear I have always been concerned about the deficit. My point is that the Republican Party was the party of fiscal responsibility all through the Obama years. That has been thrown out the window. Look at Mick Mulvaney - a Tea Party deceit hawk a decade ago who now says, basically, deficits don't matter. You are correct in that Liberals have changed their view and are now concerned with the defect. At the same time, Conservatives, too, have flipped their viewpoint on deficits. Deficits were the cornerstone of their platform but now don't matter. I'd be willing to bet that when a Democrat is elected President (which will happen at some point), deficits will no longer matter to them but will be important to Republicans.

I'm not voting for Bernie as I think he is the wrong person to lead our country. I do have respect for him, though, as he has held true to his beliefs through his career.

Sorry to go off on a tangent...
Garcia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 10:24 AM   #23
Major
Senior Member
 
Major's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 1,031
Thanks: 426
Thanked 973 Times in 407 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garcia View Post
Just to be clear I have always been concerned about the deficit. My point is that the Republican Party was the party of fiscal responsibility all through the Obama years. That has been thrown out the window. Look at Mick Mulvaney - a Tea Party deceit hawk a decade ago who now says, basically, deficits don't matter. You are correct in that Liberals have changed their view and are now concerned with the defect. At the same time, Conservatives, too, have flipped their viewpoint on deficits. Deficits were the cornerstone of their platform but now don't matter. I'd be willing to bet that when a Democrat is elected President (which will happen at some point), deficits will no longer matter to them but will be important to Republicans.

I'm not voting for Bernie as I think he is the wrong person to lead our country. I do have respect for him, though, as he has held true to his beliefs through his career.

Sorry to go off on a tangent...
I agree it doesn't matter. The reason, in my opinion, is that the left doesn't care and the conservatives cannot do anything about it. They were tired of beating their heads against the wall. The best we can hope for is to contain it.
Major is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 10:43 AM   #24
codeman671
Senior Member
 
codeman671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,333
Thanks: 204
Thanked 758 Times in 442 Posts
Default

Leaving politics out of it... Here is my take:

We sold an island property last season that was on the higher end price-wise and tried to buy something more economical. We made offers on 2 properties and could not come to terms on either. One of them had some issues which we were willing to work around and made what I felt was a fair offer mid season. The sellers didn't even counter, they snubbed their noses at us even though they had no other activity in the pipeline. At the end of the season they did get a deal on the property and it closed for about $15k more than my offer. I was pretty irritated being that we were close enough that we could have made it work. I believe it was sold by the listing agent though instead of through a buyers agent. I'll get to that later.

The other one had been on the market for ages. We tried a few different times to work with the sellers on it and were stonewalled by their agent, who was working frantically in the background to find a buyer of their own, which they finally did. My last offer was higher than what they took elsewhere, but again, sold by the listing agent.

Sold by the listing agent to their own buyer= full commission

A few agents out there, one in particular, really work in their own interest and not the interest of their client. They will pass on a well qualified buyer working with in agent to take a deal that is solely theirs, sometimes for less money. And some are extremely lazy and wont even get on a boat to go out for showings.

I think the season in general was slow for sales, some of the properties that sold were leftover properties from the previous year or two. There was a lot of overpriced material that did not go anywhere and will probably pop back on this season. Some of the more unique properties were the ones that sold, such as entire islands. Ours was a very sweet (not biased at all ) property and we had an offer within 48 hours of listing. We were also priced fairly.

We will be back at it this spring, looking to buy.
codeman671 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to codeman671 For This Useful Post:
LFODMatt (02-21-2020)
Old 02-12-2020, 10:45 AM   #25
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,937
Thanks: 1,152
Thanked 1,957 Times in 1,209 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Major View Post
I agree it doesn't matter. The reason, in my opinion, is that the left doesn't care and the conservatives cannot do anything about it. They were tired of beating their heads against the wall. The best we can hope for is to contain it.
As an optimist, I hope we find a solution—I think we can all agree that deficit spending is not good.

I do want to point out, however, that Obama's deficits were created on purpose to aid the American recovery and that they were coming back down until Trump took office.

Finally, to get back to the OP, the strong economy has affected almost everything's prices—I'm looking at having kitchen and bathroom remodels and am being told to hold onto my hat when I get the estimates. My house has almost double in value in 13 years. What I'm most interested in seeing is how much things will "fall" in the next cycle.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
thinkxingu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 11:03 AM   #26
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,729
Thanks: 1,941
Thanked 1,065 Times in 672 Posts
Default

When interest rates go up the economy will slow down. Not only is the government in extreme debt but Americans are also deep in debt. Everyone has already refinanced their debt at low rates. When rates go up there's no where to go to get cheap money.
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 11:47 AM   #27
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman671 View Post
Leaving politics out of it... Here is my take:

We sold an island property last season that was on the higher end price-wise and tried to buy something more economical. We made offers on 2 properties and could not come to terms on either. One of them had some issues which we were willing to work around and made what I felt was a fair offer mid season. The sellers didn't even counter, they snubbed their noses at us even though they had no other activity in the pipeline. At the end of the season they did get a deal on the property and it closed for about $15k more than my offer. I was pretty irritated being that we were close enough that we could have made it work. I believe it was sold by the listing agent though instead of through a buyers agent. I'll get to that later.

The other one had been on the market for ages. We tried a few different times to work with the sellers on it and were stonewalled by their agent, who was working frantically in the background to find a buyer of their own, which they finally did. My last offer was higher than what they took elsewhere, but again, sold by the listing agent.

Sold by the listing agent to their own buyer= full commission

A few agents out there, one in particular, really work in their own interest and not the interest of their client. They will pass on a well qualified buyer working with in agent to take a deal that is solely theirs, sometimes for less money. And some are extremely lazy and wont even get on a boat to go out for showings.

I think the season in general was slow for sales, some of the properties that sold were leftover properties from the previous year or two. There was a lot of overpriced material that did not go anywhere and will probably pop back on this season. Some of the more unique properties were the ones that sold, such as entire islands. Ours was a very sweet (not biased at all ) property and we had an offer within 48 hours of listing. We were also priced fairly.

We will be back at it this spring, looking to buy.

Sounds like Island Real Estate.

There are good agents out there and reputable agencies. Unfortunately the listing agents can get in the way of getting a deal done if they so choose even though they are obligated to look out for the best interest of their client not their commission check.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MAXUM For This Useful Post:
WinnisquamZ (02-12-2020)
Old 02-13-2020, 06:43 AM   #28
JEEPONLY
Deceased Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 702
Thanks: 360
Thanked 179 Times in 141 Posts
Default Huh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
Well this thread has gone in the crapper!
Not too long ago a post of mine was deleted, evidently, because it was deemed political.
Now we have this thread?
I'm insulted!!!
JEEPONLY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 08:08 AM   #29
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,369
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,371 Times in 947 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEPONLY View Post
Not too long ago a post of mine was deleted, evidently, because it was deemed political.
Now we have this thread?
I'm insulted!!!
I don't think admin is as strict as he used to be.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 08:13 AM   #30
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,937
Thanks: 1,152
Thanked 1,957 Times in 1,209 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tis View Post
I don't think admin is as strict as he used to be.
I think it's more that the post in reference was in isolation and, at very best, barely connected to the forum.

The above political discussion relates directly to the economy and, as a result, real estate values.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
thinkxingu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 09:31 AM   #31
Garcia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 571
Thanks: 127
Thanked 257 Times in 160 Posts
Default

I deleted the post I made that was off topic. I think island property (and waterfront in general), boat slips, valet, and parking spaces will continue to be in high demand and thus prices will rise regardless of a downturn. They are finite resources that will continue to be in demand - and no matter what happens with the economy, there will be people who can pay.

Personally, I don't think island or shorefront property is a good investment as many things offer a much better rate of return. People who are buying are those who want to enjoy the lake.
Garcia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 10:02 AM   #32
Pineedles
Senior Member
 
Pineedles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Moultonborough & CT
Posts: 2,534
Thanks: 1,058
Thanked 652 Times in 363 Posts
Default

Getting back on topic, my illustration of appreciation of lake front property delivered a 5% annual yield after 128 years. About what I want my IRA to deliver after advisor fees. Not a bad investment, but there were slow periods and rocket periods in those years. I think we’re in a kind slow appreciation period right now, but who knows.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
Pineedles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 12:43 PM   #33
hemlock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 52
Thanks: 1
Thanked 35 Times in 15 Posts
Default 1965

Thanks for lots of great,thoughtful responses to my original post.

In 1965 my grandfather bought what was the second lot of a subdivision sold on the non idlewild side of Cow. He was informed of its availability when he brought his television to the repair shop. I remember him saying that island land seemed to be around 1/3 the price of mainland. That is that he paid 3500 dollars for a 100 foot shore lot when mainland for the same frontage and 1/2 acre was around 10000.

He was a careful saver and paid cash. Not bad for a part time farmer and janitor at the local school. His legacy to his children grandchildren and now great great grandchild was a wonderful one.
hemlock is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to hemlock For This Useful Post:
ApS (02-13-2020), KPW (02-14-2020), Marauder (02-13-2020), Pineedles (02-14-2020)
Old 02-13-2020, 03:04 PM   #34
Orion
Senior Member
 
Orion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cow Island
Posts: 914
Thanks: 602
Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts
Default But you get to use it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineedles View Post
Getting back on topic, my illustration of appreciation of lake front property delivered a 5% annual yield after 128 years. About what I want my IRA to deliver after advisor fees. Not a bad investment, but there were slow periods and rocket periods in those years. I think we’re in a kind slow appreciation period right now, but who knows.p[/url]
But, unlike an investment account, you get to really enjoy a lakefront property investment while it appreciates. What’s that worth!
Orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 03:17 PM   #35
chaseisland
Senior Member
 
chaseisland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 152
Thanks: 17
Thanked 66 Times in 42 Posts
Default Worth

Priceless!!
chaseisland is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to chaseisland For This Useful Post:
chasedawg (02-13-2020), KPW (02-14-2020)
Old 02-13-2020, 05:09 PM   #36
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 3,986
Thanks: 1,200
Thanked 1,492 Times in 970 Posts
Default

To coin a phrase: "It's for the children".
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 05:44 PM   #37
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion View Post
But, unlike an investment account, you get to really enjoy a lakefront property investment while it appreciates. What’s that worth!
Priceless!

In the end calculating an ROI on property especially in NH with taxes the way they are, annual holding costs far exceed it's increase in value thus you're typically holding a loser purely from an investment perspective. The longer you hold the property the worse it gets. That's just a fact. So unless you get tons of enjoyment out of it, and use it a lot, it's a very costly place to park money for the long haul.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 06:56 PM   #38
chasedawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melvin village
Posts: 519
Thanks: 509
Thanked 313 Times in 147 Posts
Default Priceless!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaseisland View Post
Priceless!!
Back in 1982 I was transferred by Digital Equipment from Ohio to MA. When I left Mentor Ohio on Lake Erie I owned a beautiful 40' Flybridge Chris Craft Commander. Great boat. When I came to Boston I told my neighbor I was going to the Boston Boat show to buy another cabin cruiser. The neighbor said why buy a boat... you should go visit the lakes up in Maine and NH. So I did! I fell in love with Lake Winni. She went with me! I bought the camp and not the boat. Second best move I ever made. I fell in love with her too! The best move I ever made was to marry that beautiful and smart women next door.
chasedawg is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to chasedawg For This Useful Post:
Biggd (02-13-2020), Diana (02-14-2020), FlyingScot (02-13-2020), gillygirl (02-13-2020), LIforrelaxin (02-24-2020), Slickcraft (02-13-2020), TheTimeTraveler (02-13-2020)
Old 02-13-2020, 07:16 PM   #39
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,369
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,371 Times in 947 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasedawg View Post
Back in 1982 I was transferred by Digital Equipment from Ohio to MA. When I left Mentor Ohio on Lake Erie I owned a beautiful 40' Flybridge Chris Craft Commander. Great boat. When I came to Boston I told my neighbor I was going to the Boston Boat show to buy another cabin cruiser. The neighbor said why buy a boat... you should go visit the lakes up in Maine and NH. So I did! I fell in love with Lake Winni. She went with me! I bought the camp and not the boat. Second best move I ever made. I fell in love with her too! The best move I ever made was to marry that beautiful and smart women next door.
I just love that story-I never heard it before! I love your camp too! We have often said we are glad you love it so much.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 07:56 PM   #40
TheTimeTraveler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 816
Thanks: 256
Thanked 259 Times in 157 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
Priceless!

In the end calculating an ROI on property especially in NH with taxes the way they are, annual holding costs far exceed it's increase in value thus you're typically holding a loser purely from an investment perspective. The longer you hold the property the worse it gets. That's just a fact. So unless you get tons of enjoyment out of it, and use it a lot, it's a very costly place to park money for the long haul.
This may very well be true, however real estate is generally a very safe place to park your money (remember what happened with Polaroid, Wang, etc.).

Obviously a Bank is also a safe place to place your money if you can live with those very low but safe returns.
TheTimeTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 08:46 PM   #41
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,729
Thanks: 1,941
Thanked 1,065 Times in 672 Posts
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasedawg View Post
Back in 1982 I was transferred by Digital Equipment from Ohio to MA. When I left Mentor Ohio on Lake Erie I owned a beautiful 40' Flybridge Chris Craft Commander. Great boat. When I came to Boston I told my neighbor I was going to the Boston Boat show to buy another cabin cruiser. The neighbor said why buy a boat... you should go visit the lakes up in Maine and NH. So I did! I fell in love with Lake Winni. She went with me! I bought the camp and not the boat. Second best move I ever made. I fell in love with her too! The best move I ever made was to marry that beautiful and smart women next door.
I met my wife at the Brickyard back in 1979. We will be married 40 years next year.
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Biggd For This Useful Post:
Flylady (02-18-2020)
Old 02-13-2020, 10:30 PM   #42
chasedawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melvin village
Posts: 519
Thanks: 509
Thanked 313 Times in 147 Posts
Default Love our camp..thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by tis View Post
I just love that story-I never heard it before! I love your camp too! We have often said we are glad you love it so much.
Many thanks to you! We can't thank you enough.
chasedawg is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to chasedawg For This Useful Post:
tis (02-18-2020)
Old 02-13-2020, 10:51 PM   #43
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler View Post
This may very well be true, however real estate is generally a very safe place to park your money (remember what happened with Polaroid, Wang, etc.).

Obviously a Bank is also a safe place to place your money if you can live with those very low but safe returns.
Low returns are better than negative returns. So purely from a financial standpoint the bank is a better deal.

That said it's hard to enjoy a bank statement as a vacation or weekend getaway.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 10:40 PM   #44
jazzman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Mont Vernon NH & Big Barndoor Island
Posts: 320
Thanks: 4
Thanked 184 Times in 62 Posts
Default

There are a couple people fishing with property listed at 50%+ what it is probably worth on Barndoor. Real selling prices are up a good 30% in the past 5 years though. Nothing under 500k recently.
jazzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 06:35 AM   #45
Barney Bear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 962
Thanks: 495
Thanked 273 Times in 174 Posts
Default Pie in the Sky

There are properties on Bear Island with similar high asking prices. 🍋 💰 💰
Barney Bear is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Barney Bear For This Useful Post:
codeman671 (02-18-2020)
Old 02-18-2020, 09:44 AM   #46
codeman671
Senior Member
 
codeman671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,333
Thanks: 204
Thanked 758 Times in 442 Posts
Default

There was a lot of sales last season sub $500k, in fact most of the sales were in that range (a few on Welch, one on Mark, Bear, Little Bear, etc). There was a fair amount that didn't sell that were overpriced. I can think of at least 3 on Bear that fell into that category. I follow it quite closely.

Barndoor seems to have a following, and people that want to be close to Wolfeboro tend to pay to be there. Personally I want to be at the other end of the lake- Gilford, Meredith, Tuftonboro.
codeman671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 09:55 AM   #47
ishoot308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 5,891
Thanks: 2,274
Thanked 4,904 Times in 1,897 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
Low returns are better than negative returns. So purely from a financial standpoint the bank is a better deal.
Unless your money in the bank is earning more than the rate of inflation, (very rare with rates these days) wouldn't that be considered a "negative return"?

Real estate, while cyclic, seems to always go up in value in the long run...

Dan
__________________
It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!!
ishoot308 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 11:39 AM   #48
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 3,986
Thanks: 1,200
Thanked 1,492 Times in 970 Posts
Default Bank vs own?

If my money were in the bank, I would have to pay somebody to sit on their dock to watch the sunset. Most resorts that have sunsets like you post, Dan, are very expensive, plus expense to get there. Many don't even have a Tiki Bar. A diversified portfolio includes an amount of real estate and perhaps some Brunswick and maybe Caterpillar or Mercury. TIC.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 11:48 AM   #49
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,937
Thanks: 1,152
Thanked 1,957 Times in 1,209 Posts
Default

A friend of mine called me out on real estate being an "investment" (making money) some years back. After having done the math on a bunch of homes, his thesis was that once mortgage interest, taxes, repairs, upgrades, etc. are factored in, there is not much ROI.

Just thinking about my house, even though it's gone up 50% in 13 years, it's probably a wash based on what I owe and have put into it. And that's at 2.8% mortgage interest. At 5, I'd be under water.

There are many, many things in life that I'm willing to own out of pure emotion—a camp that allows me the lifestyle of Winni is just one of them.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
thinkxingu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 12:11 PM   #50
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ishoot308 View Post
Unless your money in the bank is earning more than the rate of inflation, (very rare with rates these days) wouldn't that be considered a "negative return"?

Real estate, while cyclic, seems to always go up in value in the long run...

Dan
Yes if interest rates fall below the rate of inflation over the life of the investment it would be no different than the illustration I'm making with real estate. The investment will gain value over time but will produce a negative return. Just as a piece of property's carrying costs, specifically taxes, on an annual basis exceeding the increase in "value".
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MAXUM For This Useful Post:
ishoot308 (02-18-2020)
Old 02-18-2020, 01:04 PM   #51
ishoot308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 5,891
Thanks: 2,274
Thanked 4,904 Times in 1,897 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descant View Post
If my money were in the bank, I would have to pay somebody to sit on their dock to watch the sunset. Most resorts that have sunsets like you post, Dan, are very expensive, plus expense to get there. Many don't even have a Tiki Bar. A diversified portfolio includes an amount of real estate and perhaps some Brunswick and maybe Caterpillar or Mercury. TIC.
I feel the rate of return on Winni sunsets is immeasurable!... The Tiki Bar comes in at a close second! Fishing, boating and snowmobiling are right up there as well! Some things you just can’t put a price tag on!

Dan
__________________
It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!!
ishoot308 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 02:15 PM   #52
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ishoot308 View Post
I feel the rate of return on Winni sunsets is immeasurable!... The Tiki Bar comes in at a close second! Fishing, boating and snowmobiling are right up there as well! Some things you just can’t put a price tag on!

Dan
Absolutely!!!

It's really hard to enjoy a bank\investment statement on weekends
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MAXUM For This Useful Post:
ApS (02-18-2020), hkephart (04-25-2020), ishoot308 (02-18-2020)
Old 02-18-2020, 08:31 PM   #53
Barney Bear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 962
Thanks: 495
Thanked 273 Times in 174 Posts
Default Pricele$$

We are fortunate to have beeen able to watch beautiful sunrises and moonrises from our place on East Bear Island for fifty-two seasons with family and friends. A great investment indeed! 🐻
Barney Bear is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Barney Bear For This Useful Post:
Slickcraft (02-19-2020)
Old 02-19-2020, 09:39 AM   #54
The Real BigGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,095
Thanks: 107
Thanked 406 Times in 241 Posts
Default

Buying an apartment house, a two family, or such is an investment. Buying a lake house or camp is pure peace and relaxation.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
The Real BigGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2020, 10:19 AM   #55
CaptT820
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 122
Thanks: 86
Thanked 46 Times in 27 Posts
Default Past Investment

Island property used to be a good investment, probably not so much any more. Land can still be had for "reasonable" money on an island for high 90s or low 100s without a structure. We just bought raw land adjacent to our camp last year and we paid $120K for roughly 1/2 an acre. The asking price was $147K, which we obviously thought was too high.
A small camp with land is under agreement right now on the island for $325K, so camps and land can be had for "reasonable" money depending on when and where you are looking.

We have all the records for our island for when it was divested from a single corporate owner in the late 1960s. Raw land varied between $3000 and $6500 a parcel back then for roughly 1/2 an acre.
CaptT820 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2020, 12:15 PM   #56
The Real BigGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,095
Thanks: 107
Thanked 406 Times in 241 Posts
Default

My father-in-law used trailer his boat for family day visits to the lake and they often ended up on the west side of Barndoor at a nice sandy spot. One day a gentleman walked up and asked if my father-in-law was interested in buying the lot. Asking price was $1200. My F-I-L said no, he was only interested in using it, not buying it. What a shrewd real estate investor he was!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
The Real BigGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to The Real BigGuy For This Useful Post:
FlyingScot (02-19-2020)
Old 02-20-2020, 08:04 AM   #57
ursa minor
Senior Member
 
ursa minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Tuftonborough & Franklin MA
Posts: 265
Thanks: 99
Thanked 143 Times in 64 Posts
Default

Our saying for last 20 odd years that we've had our own place has been "it's worthless because it will never be for sale". The latest valuation / tax bill is not going down well, this is becoming an expensive hobby if looked at in a clinical cost per weekend / vacation week basis.

We were lucky enough to buy the land / start the long process of building the house before prices went truly crazy and also did a lot of the work ourselves so that part is OK but it's only seasonal access and the gap between island and mainland values is not as big as it once was. There's no way we could do the same thing today at least on Winnipesaukee. I'm sure I'll feel a lot better in a few months when I'm sitting on the dock watching sunsets and visiting with our awesome neighbors.
__________________
" Any day with a boat ride in it is a good day"
ursa minor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2020, 11:12 AM   #58
8gv
Senior Member
 
8gv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,000
Thanks: 61
Thanked 697 Times in 453 Posts
Default

Never do the math!
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 8gv For This Useful Post:
TheDudeAbides (04-25-2020)
Old 02-20-2020, 11:38 AM   #59
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,208
Thanks: 1,106
Thanked 934 Times in 576 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursa minor View Post
Our saying for last 20 odd years that we've had our own place has been "it's worthless because it will never be for sale". The latest valuation / tax bill is not going down well, this is becoming an expensive hobby if looked at in a clinical cost per weekend / vacation week basis.

We were lucky enough to buy the land / start the long process of building the house before prices went truly crazy and also did a lot of the work ourselves so that part is OK but it's only seasonal access and the gap between island and mainland values is not as big as it once was. There's no way we could do the same thing today at least on Winnipesaukee. I'm sure I'll feel a lot better in a few months when I'm sitting on the dock watching sunsets and visiting with our awesome neighbors.
Our thinking is similar, though I think I'd say "priceless"

We bought 5 years ago, approximately 15 years after we could first afford to do so. For most of those 15 years, we said it would be "ridiculous" to buy--"just think of the awesome family vacations we can fund with the money saved on property taxes" was our reasoning. We only bought when I began to feel my mortality.

So glad we made the "foolish" decision to buy--it's the best money we ever spent, I only wish we had not been so rational in our younger days.
FlyingScot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2020, 12:57 PM   #60
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 3,986
Thanks: 1,200
Thanked 1,492 Times in 970 Posts
Default Bequest

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
Our thinking is similar, though I think I'd say "priceless"

We bought 5 years ago, approximately 15 years after we could first afford to do so. For most of those 15 years, we said it would be "ridiculous" to buy--"just think of the awesome family vacations we can fund with the money saved on property taxes" was our reasoning. We only bought when I began to feel my mortality.

So glad we made the "foolish" decision to buy--it's the best money we ever spent, I only wish we had not been so rational in our younger days.
So, we sacrifice a little. This isn't a 5-7 year program like buying a primary residence and moving a lot. This is for children and grandchildren. To be a fly on the wall, check out the "Childhood memories" thread. If you or the kids can't afford it for awhile, don't sell, lease. Our neighbors did that many years ago for several seasons. Now there are several generations flying in from all over to enjoy each other and the family camp at prices they can all afford.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2020, 01:23 PM   #61
LIforrelaxin
Senior Member
 
LIforrelaxin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee
Posts: 2,811
Thanks: 1,010
Thanked 876 Times in 511 Posts
Default

Set the political post aside, this thread is interesting.

I believe one of the reasons island properties have seen a rise in sale price lately is that the inventory of camps on the mainland is dwindling. Island properties for the most part are just that camps.

What a majority of people seem to want to do these days, is buy a property and then build their version of paradise. When main land property sells for for 500K to 1M, the feasibility of doing so becomes hard for most. Not that buying a place for 250K-450K make it that much more palatable, but it opens the door for a larger audience.

Top that all off with the fact that we now have sport boats in the 20-30 ft. range which make getting to an island seem less risky for most. 50 years ago when boat sizes on a lake averaged less then 20' the "adventure" to get back and forth to an island property had a different appearance.
__________________
Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....
LIforrelaxin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 10:45 AM   #62
LFODMatt
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 7
Thanks: 14
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman671 View Post
Leaving politics out of it... Here is my take:

We sold an island property last season that was on the higher end price-wise and tried to buy something more economical. We made offers on 2 properties and could not come to terms on either. One of them had some issues which we were willing to work around and made what I felt was a fair offer mid season. The sellers didn't even counter, they snubbed their noses at us even though they had no other activity in the pipeline. At the end of the season they did get a deal on the property and it closed for about $15k more than my offer. I was pretty irritated being that we were close enough that we could have made it work. I believe it was sold by the listing agent though instead of through a buyers agent. I'll get to that later.

The other one had been on the market for ages. We tried a few different times to work with the sellers on it and were stonewalled by their agent, who was working frantically in the background to find a buyer of their own, which they finally did. My last offer was higher than what they took elsewhere, but again, sold by the listing agent.

Sold by the listing agent to their own buyer= full commission

A few agents out there, one in particular, really work in their own interest and not the interest of their client. They will pass on a well qualified buyer working with in agent to take a deal that is solely theirs, sometimes for less money. And some are extremely lazy and wont even get on a boat to go out for showings.

I think the season in general was slow for sales, some of the properties that sold were leftover properties from the previous year or two. There was a lot of overpriced material that did not go anywhere and will probably pop back on this season. Some of the more unique properties were the ones that sold, such as entire islands. Ours was a very sweet (not biased at all ) property and we had an offer within 48 hours of listing. We were also priced fairly.

We will be back at it this spring, looking to buy.
We had a similar situation a few years back but from the other end of the deal. Our agent "had a buyer" and didn't even list our property until we had a written offer in hand. In the end, the deal fell apart (for many reasons - only some of which I blame the agent), and we are happily still in the same property.

Early ice out this season?
LFODMatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 02:19 PM   #63
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LFODMatt View Post
We had a similar situation a few years back but from the other end of the deal. Our agent "had a buyer" and didn't even list our property until we had a written offer in hand. In the end, the deal fell apart (for many reasons - only some of which I blame the agent), and we are happily still in the same property.

Early ice out this season?
If I had an agent that tried to pull a stunt like that - I'd first sever that relationship real fast. The is no point to even using an agent if they are playing both sides of the deal anyways, they are "supposed" to be a neutral party. So zero value add - unless they will take half the commission. Of course that defeats the purpose.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MAXUM For This Useful Post:
LFODMatt (02-25-2020)
Old 02-21-2020, 02:33 PM   #64
codeman671
Senior Member
 
codeman671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,333
Thanks: 204
Thanked 758 Times in 442 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
If I had an agent that tried to pull a stunt like that - I'd first sever that relationship real fast. The is no point to even using an agent if they are playing both sides of the deal anyways, they are "supposed" to be a neutral party. So zero value add - unless they will take half the commission. Of course that defeats the purpose.
Sounds like we are all talking about the same person....
codeman671 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to codeman671 For This Useful Post:
LFODMatt (02-25-2020)
Old 02-21-2020, 03:34 PM   #65
Woody38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 564
Thanks: 46
Thanked 104 Times in 75 Posts
Default Vest Pocket Listing

Back when we lived on Cape Cod there was an agent who had a buyer and didn't actually list the property. The buyer came and offered full price and the seller cancelled the listing. Seller turned around and increased the price considerably. I do believe vest pocket listings became illegal after this. As a broker I have seen almost every kind of trickery imaginable. Some people find it impossible to conduct themselves honestly.

_____________________________________________

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic
Woody38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 04:07 PM   #66
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman671 View Post
Sounds like we are all talking about the same person....
We most certainly are! I'll just leave it at that......
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 05:23 PM   #67
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,208
Thanks: 1,106
Thanked 934 Times in 576 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
If I had an agent that tried to pull a stunt like that - I'd first sever that relationship real fast. The is no point to even using an agent if they are playing both sides of the deal anyways, they are "supposed" to be a neutral party. So zero value add - unless they will take half the commission. Of course that defeats the purpose.
Worse than that--agents represent the seller except when explicitly contracted as buyer's agents. This includes the vast majority of agents who help buyers look for houses to buy.
FlyingScot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 10:18 AM   #68
CaptT820
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 122
Thanks: 86
Thanked 46 Times in 27 Posts
Default Agent

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
We most certainly are! I'll just leave it at that......
I just had a similar experience with our last transaction involving "that agent".
We had a handshake deal with the owner of the property if he ever sold it. He told the agent to tell us that he had an agreement before the property went public.
The agent never said anything to us, and the property actually made it to the market.
Once we told the seller what was going on he took the listing off the MLS and fired the agent. Extremely shady and unethical behavior by the agent.

Thankfully we got the property.
CaptT820 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CaptT820 For This Useful Post:
LFODMatt (02-25-2020)
Old 02-25-2020, 10:53 AM   #69
tbonies
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Anchorage, Al
Posts: 141
Thanks: 56
Thanked 59 Times in 30 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptT820 View Post
I just had a similar experience with our last transaction involving "that agent".
We had a handshake deal with the owner of the property if he ever sold it. He told the agent to tell us that he had an agreement before the property went public.
The agent never said anything to us, and the property actually made it to the market.
Once we told the seller what was going on he took the listing off the MLS and fired the agent. Extremely shady and unethical behavior by the agent.

Thankfully we got the property.


So if you had a handshake deal, why did he use an agent? For some reason, it feels like we are only hearing part of the story..


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
tbonies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2020, 12:17 PM   #70
Formula260SS
Senior Member
 
Formula260SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NH
Posts: 384
Thanks: 11
Thanked 76 Times in 51 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbonies View Post
So if you had a handshake deal, why did he use an agent? For some reason, it feels like we are only hearing part of the story..


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
Isn't there three sides to every story?....
Formula260SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 10:53 AM   #71
CaptT820
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 122
Thanks: 86
Thanked 46 Times in 27 Posts
Default Agent

We started discussions with him back in August, there was difficulty with communication due to distance and technology, so at some point he felt like we were taking too long to get back to him (two parties involved in the purchase), so he hired an agent with the contingency to still be able to deal directly with us. In the end it all worked out, even though the agent supposedly had a phantom 3rd party interested in the property at the last minute which confused her seller. More shady tactics.

Hope this clears it up.
CaptT820 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 02:15 PM   #72
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,729
Thanks: 1,941
Thanked 1,065 Times in 672 Posts
Default

Island properties are going to increase in value this spring as everyone is going to want to be isolated from the coronavirus.

Last edited by Biggd; 02-26-2020 at 05:51 PM.
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2020, 04:54 PM   #73
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

I would be very disappointed to find myself quarantined on Bear Island for the entire summer.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MAXUM For This Useful Post:
Biggd (02-26-2020), ishoot308 (02-27-2020), Top-Water (02-26-2020)
Old 02-26-2020, 08:28 PM   #74
Wifi-1
Senior Member
 
Wifi-1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 213
Thanks: 196
Thanked 86 Times in 56 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
I would be very disappointed to find myself quarantined on Bear Island for the entire summer.
True, but you have an alternative, something others might not have.
Wifi-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 09:05 AM   #75
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,729
Thanks: 1,941
Thanked 1,065 Times in 672 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wifi-1 View Post
True, but you have an alternative, something others might not have.
I think he was being sarcastic with that comment.
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 10:08 AM   #76
jazzman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Mont Vernon NH & Big Barndoor Island
Posts: 320
Thanks: 4
Thanked 184 Times in 62 Posts
Default

I always though the islands might be a good way to survive the zombies. Food, water, isolation.... Good until the guy with the ar-15 shows up and takes it from me.
jazzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 10:42 AM   #77
WinnisquamZ
Senior Member
 
WinnisquamZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,859
Thanks: 191
Thanked 587 Times in 393 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzman View Post
I always though the islands might be a good way to survive the zombies. Food, water, isolation.... Good until the guy with the ar-15 shows up and takes it from me.
You live on a island in NH. Should you not have your own AR-15?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
WinnisquamZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 11:01 AM   #78
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 3,986
Thanks: 1,200
Thanked 1,492 Times in 970 Posts
Default Ar-15?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ View Post
You live on a island in NH. Should you not have your own AR-15?
Awww. Now everybody knows.

BTW, NH RSA's prohibit the "discharge of firearms" on Lake Winnipesaukee islands. It appears potato launchers and RPG's are OK.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 11:25 AM   #79
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descant View Post
Awww. Now everybody knows.

BTW, NH RSA's prohibit the "discharge of firearms" on Lake Winnipesaukee islands. It appears potato launchers and RPG's are OK.
Can you provide this RSA?

There are rules in regards to discharging firearms in relation to permanently occupied dwellings, and rules that prohibit hunting on islands but I have not seen anything that prohibits target shooting. Just curious to see as I cannot find anything that says as much.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 12:16 PM   #80
TheTimeTraveler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 816
Thanks: 256
Thanked 259 Times in 157 Posts
Default

Opinion: If the Corona Virus takes serious hold in this Country then I can envision the stock market to fall further which will likely "weaken" Real Estate values (especially the higher end of the market).

The Corona Virus death rate is hovering a bit above 2% at this point.

Off the Real Estate topic: The Corona Virus is affecting sales of Corona Beer (per a recent news article). Hard to believe, but true. It will be interesting to see if the brewery of Corona Beer will be able to survive this situation.......
TheTimeTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 12:36 PM   #81
lakershaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rattlesnake Isl. - Simsbury, CT
Posts: 271
Thanks: 90
Thanked 44 Times in 26 Posts
Default islands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descant View Post
Awww. Now everybody knows.

BTW, NH RSA's prohibit the "discharge of firearms" on Lake Winnipesaukee islands. It appears potato launchers and RPG's are OK.
Actually, I think the prohibition is on hunting deer and bear on islands (with either firearms or archery) with the exception of Long and Governors Islands in Winni. Hunting turkey's are ok, and when I was speaking with a Conservation Officer in the past he was saying he's always wanted to turkey hunt on a specific island but hasn't had the chance yet.
lakershaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 03:52 PM   #82
rsmlp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 460
Thanks: 5
Thanked 159 Times in 80 Posts
Default island prices

The way the stock market is going, island prices could be lower soon. Bond market signaling recession.
rsmlp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 11:25 PM   #83
codeman671
Senior Member
 
codeman671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,333
Thanks: 204
Thanked 758 Times in 442 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descant View Post
Awww. Now everybody knows.

BTW, NH RSA's prohibit the "discharge of firearms" on Lake Winnipesaukee islands. It appears potato launchers and RPG's are OK.
If potato launchers were not allowed I would have been in a lot of trouble...

Tip- clear pvc barrels rock!
codeman671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2020, 08:17 AM   #84
steve-on-mark
Senior Member
 
steve-on-mark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Epping, NH / Mark Island
Posts: 1,658
Thanks: 160
Thanked 660 Times in 376 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman671 View Post
If potato launchers were not allowed I would have been in a lot of trouble...

Tip- clear pvc barrels rock!
If you could come up with a stepson launcher, I'd be forever grateful!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
__________________
....keeping " urban decay " out of photos for nearly a year.
steve-on-mark is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to steve-on-mark For This Useful Post:
codeman671 (02-29-2020)
Old 02-29-2020, 08:30 AM   #85
The Real BigGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,095
Thanks: 107
Thanked 406 Times in 241 Posts
Default

Bond market has been signaling recession for close to a year. I wonder if there is a new normal?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
The Real BigGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2020, 09:10 AM   #86
Juiced06GTO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 204
Thanks: 8
Thanked 82 Times in 47 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptT820 View Post
I just had a similar experience with our last transaction involving "that agent".
We had a handshake deal with the owner of the property if he ever sold it. He told the agent to tell us that he had an agreement before the property went public.
The agent never said anything to us, and the property actually made it to the market.
Once we told the seller what was going on he took the listing off the MLS and fired the agent. Extremely shady and unethical behavior by the agent.

Thankfully we got the property.
Would someone PM the name of said agent so I know who to avoid when I start looking! Thanks!!
Juiced06GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2020, 11:57 AM   #87
JEEPONLY
Deceased Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 702
Thanks: 360
Thanked 179 Times in 141 Posts
Default Tread Lightly

If you live in the area, you know who Randy Parker is- regularly praised as the #1 real estate agent around. I have no doubts that he is very good at what he does.

However...
Every time his company sells in my area, I get a nice, formal notice (with pictures) stating how great that transaction went, and how he (the company) can enhance my (future) experience- always with a personal offer for a free appraisal of my property.

I finally took him up on his offer (you know how they send out the postcard with the offer)?! I even spoke to him on the phone.

He told me that he lived nearby and could stop at the property even if no one was around.

Time went by- no response. So I called.

Turned out he decided not to comply.

Really, my point is, no matter how great you think (know) who your people are, the onus is still on you to do your homework.
JEEPONLY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2020, 01:48 PM   #88
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO View Post
Would someone PM the name of said agent so I know who to avoid when I start looking! Thanks!!
PM sent to you.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2020, 03:03 PM   #89
Woody38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 564
Thanks: 46
Thanked 104 Times in 75 Posts
Default Appraisal

What one needs to understand is that real estate agents do not do appraisals.
They do market assessments based on what previous sales dictate. There is a difference. If an appraisal is desired there are people who actually do appraisals. They do not do these for free. Usually well worth the money.

_________________________________

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic
Woody38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2020, 03:24 PM   #90
Mr. V
Senior Member
 
Mr. V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: the left coast (Portland)and West Alton
Posts: 1,319
Thanks: 61
Thanked 234 Times in 158 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody38 View Post
What one needs to understand is that real estate agents do not do appraisals.
They do market assessments based on what previous sales dictate. There is a difference. If an appraisal is desired there are people who actually do appraisals. They do not do these for free. Usually well worth the money.
A comparative market analysis by a realtor is of zero value in a court case.

Courts require reports / testimony from a trained, licensed specialist, a real estate appraiser.
__________________
basking in the benign indifference of the universe
Mr. V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2020, 04:04 PM   #91
The Real BigGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,095
Thanks: 107
Thanked 406 Times in 241 Posts
Default Island property prices

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
The Real BigGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2020, 07:11 PM   #92
codeman671
Senior Member
 
codeman671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,333
Thanks: 204
Thanked 758 Times in 442 Posts
Default

Just talked to a local bank that I have worked with for island financing in the past. I am being told it will be a tough season for those looking to finance. Rates will be high and percentage down will be increased. Loans of less than $350k will now require 25% down and over $350k will be 30% down.

I looked into a refi on a boat slip, they are only offering 50% ltv and 6.11%.

It will be interesting to see what this does for resales.
codeman671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 06:07 AM   #93
rsmlp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 460
Thanks: 5
Thanked 159 Times in 80 Posts
Default mortgages

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman671 View Post
Just talked to a local bank that I have worked with for island financing in the past. I am being told it will be a tough season for those looking to finance. Rates will be high and percentage down will be increased. Loans of less than $350k will now require 25% down and over $350k will be 30% down.

I looked into a refi on a boat slip, they are only offering 50% ltv and 6.11%.

It will be interesting to see what this does for resales.
Probably need a bigger down payment but rates still very low.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/mo...oan-2020-04-23
rsmlp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 06:21 AM   #94
codeman671
Senior Member
 
codeman671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,333
Thanks: 204
Thanked 758 Times in 442 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsmlp View Post
Probably need a bigger down payment but rates still very low.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/mo...oan-2020-04-23
Keep in mind that typical mortgage companies won’t touch an island property. These are typically funded as portfolio loans by local banks. Normal rates and programs found online with companies like Chase, Rocket Mortgage,
Etc don’t apply.
codeman671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 06:35 AM   #95
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,937
Thanks: 1,152
Thanked 1,957 Times in 1,209 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman671 View Post
Keep in mind that typical mortgage companies won’t touch an island property. These are typically funded as portfolio loans by local banks. Normal rates and programs found online with companies like Chase, Rocket Mortgage,
Etc don’t apply.
This is the same with condo campgrounds like Arcadia, Squam Lakes Resort, etc. where interest rates can be 7% plus and often variable.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
thinkxingu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 09:22 AM   #96
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 3,986
Thanks: 1,200
Thanked 1,492 Times in 970 Posts
Default People's United Bank

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman671 View Post
Keep in mind that typical mortgage companies won’t touch an island property. These are typically funded as portfolio loans by local banks. Normal rates and programs found online with companies like Chase, Rocket Mortgage,
Etc don’t apply.
Spoke to a rep from People's United Bank. Agreed, it's all portfolio because these loans can't be resold. Could be 20% down. Easiest, and best rate might be a home equity loan instead of a high interest rate mortgage. Boat slips will probably have a fire sale next year, so, be ready.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 09:33 AM   #97
codeman671
Senior Member
 
codeman671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,333
Thanks: 204
Thanked 758 Times in 442 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descant View Post
Spoke to a rep from People's United Bank. Agreed, it's all portfolio because these loans can't be resold. Could be 20% down. Easiest, and best rate might be a home equity loan instead of a high interest rate mortgage. Boat slips will probably have a fire sale next year, so, be ready.
I am surprised, I use People’s for my commercial banking and last time I checked they didn’t do it. My quote came from Bank of NH.
codeman671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 11:38 AM   #98
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 3,986
Thanks: 1,200
Thanked 1,492 Times in 970 Posts
Default Peoplesn

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman671 View Post
I am surprised, I use People’s for my commercial banking and last time I checked they didn’t do it. My quote came from Bank of NH.
Call Lynn at (603)424-0084. That's her Merrimack office, but she works for People's branches all over the state, and northern MA. Of course, the branches are closed for walk in business right now, but they are staffed. She just did a couple of re-fi's for me. I asked her about the island stuff earlier today. Top notch about returning calls.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 06:08 PM   #99
Barney Bear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 962
Thanks: 495
Thanked 273 Times in 174 Posts
Default Bye, Bye, Neighbors

Another East Bear Island property, located near the East Bear Island mail dock, is now on the market. We will miss our longtime neighbors. 🐻
Barney Bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2020, 06:25 PM   #100
codeman671
Senior Member
 
codeman671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,333
Thanks: 204
Thanked 758 Times in 442 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Bear View Post
Another East Bear Island property, located near the East Bear Island mail dock, is now on the market. We will miss our longtime neighbors. 🐻
Which one? I don’t see any new ones on in the last few days.
codeman671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.42683 seconds