Stopped by the Marine Patrol - Advice Needed

[Skippermark]

I’ve been boating on Lake Winnipesaukee for over 25 years and for over 50 in general, and today was just my second time being stopped by the marine patrol. The first was about 20 years ago when we were fishing, and they wanted to make sure I had a fishing license.

Today my son and I were on our PWCs, and we had just passed underneath the Governor’s Island Bridge heading south and continued at idle speed until we were almost to the end of the island. My son was off to my side, so I went, and he went off in a different direction because I go too slow for him, and that’s when I got stopped.

The officer said he pulled me over because I didn’t follow the safe passage rule, which states that you have to be at headway speed when within 150 feet of another boat. He said we were about 75 feet apart when I took off.

To me, it seemed safe, but I did wrong and appreciate him only giving me a warning, but it made me wonder how others handle situations when they are less than 150 feet from another vessel.

Specifically, like if you were going through The Graveyard, which I think is less than 150 feet wide, but if not, boats certainly pass closer than 150 feet apart in it. We were there later in the day, and no slowed down when they passed other vessels.

When we entered the channel, a couple boats tucked in behind us and seemed irritated that we were only going 25. They rode really close, almost as if to intimidate us, and I was unsure of what to do as other boats entered the other side.

I think a lot of boating and being safe is using good judgement, and in the past, I probably would have maintained speed or slowed down a little, but after getting stopped earlier, I decided to slow all the way down to headway speed. Needless to say, the people behind me weren’t happy. They didn’t expect me to slow down, and I almost couldn’t control my PWC going so slow because the wakes from the boats passing by pushed me all over the place. My wife thought we were going to capsize because the PWC filled with water from a wave that washed over the handlebars, and it’s not very stable when the footwells are full.

Once we were out of the channel, I quickly turned a different direction than everyone was heading because I felt like I had done something wrong and didn’t want to hear them screaming at me anymore. I’ve never done it, but I felt like I had just break checked someone on the highway, and forced them to slam on their brakes to avoid hitting me.

I’m kind of worried what to do when this happens again because I know it will. I don’t want to get stopped by the marine patrol, but I’m concerned about getting hit or causing problems for others because no one expects you to slow down.

It’s kind of like when you’re driving on the highway and everyone is speeding. If you try to do the speed limit, you’re kind of a hazard, but if you speed, you can get pulled over. It’s kind of a lose lose.

I’m curious how others handles situations like these.

[TomC]

...doesn't say you can ignore it in places like the Graveyard. I always slow to headway speed in the Graveyard to comply with the 150' rule, and would in other narrow channels like that. I will say that I am often blasted past by the boat I slowed for.

[tis]

I think it's the most misused rule in existence. People are terrible. 150" from shore a boat, dock, raft or anything else means no wake. I don't know why they bother to make people take a safety class if they cannot enforce the rules because apparently most people don't know what no wake means. You should not make a wake whether others do or not. Maybe you can teach them. It's a pet peeve of mine. Expect a lot of replies about how hard it is to maintain a no wake, lots of excuses.

[SAB1]

I think the 150 rule when passing another boat on plane is a joke. Why, because most don’t follow the rule. I always go around the graveyard to avoid the need to slow down although most traveling thru it don’t slow and honestly don’t see why you need to. Two boats traveling in opposite direction on plane have plenty of room to navigate that. Not much different than traveling down a road. Leaving Moultonboro bay going north toward toward Lees mill another spot where boats consistently pass each other on plane well under 150ft and nobody slows there. Same for the pinch point at the northern end of Little Bear and Long Island. 150 does seem reasonable though when traveling past kayaks, canoes, sailboats, skiers and stopped boats. I’m glad the OP only got a warning though. If you ever left the fireworks at Wolfeboro bay on the 4th they could nail everyone for that same thing lol.

[The Real BigGuy]

1. For Skippermark - headway speed (no wake in NH) means the slowest speed you can go and maintain control of your vessel. If the wakes thrown up by boats in the Graveyard were making you lose control at headway speed you are justified in increasing your speed to be safe.

2. For SAB1 - 2 boats passing close on a plane is nothing like two cars passing on a highway. Cars don’t kick up a wake. Look behind you some times and watch the boats trying to navigate your wake (see Skippermark’s post.)

If people would spend as much time trying to obey the rules/regulations as they do trying to justify why they don’t need to we all would be better off.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Biggd]

I think a lot of people have a hard time judging 150' or they use that as an excuse.

[thinkxingu]

This problem is really everywhere vehicles exist these days. My town's speed limit is 30, but doing any less than 40 will get you tailgated and/or aggressively passed.

I just approach it the same everywhere: avoid it when possible—for example, pulling into the middle or slow lane on the highway or, as someone above mentioned, going around the Graveyard—or be proactively defensive when I can't.

Your example of the Graveyard is a good one because, even when people do slow down, they almost always choose a speed that causes the biggest wake...which makes everything worse.

Fortunately for us, we're usually early or late enough to be the only people through the Graveyard. When not, we go around.

Finally, there's the rules and then there's common sense. In almost 100% of the times I've been in the same situation you were pulled over for—accelerating in different directions—I'd have done exactly what you did. Getting pulled over for that is really a little overboard...unless MP was in a position (close enough, say) that they couldn't avoid addressing it. Otherwise, I'm confident there are other infractions they could've focused on.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

[chachee52]

I have posted a few times about Grave Yard and how no one slows down anymore. We have a pretty deep hull 24' boat and have almost gotten swamped a few times when I slow down but the boat coming at us does not.
I do agree, just go around the grave Yard and be safer and enjoy the scenery. I only go through it now if no one is around the area at all.
Even yesterday going between Parker island and mainland, had a pontoon boat that came right up in my wake about 75' behind us as I was trying to avoid a sailboat and another boat coming toward us. I don't known about everyone else, but when I'm following someone and something like that happens that I have to get into someone's wake because of traffic, I always slow down to give a lot more than 150' just incase the boat in front of me has to stop of slow way down, just gives me that much more time to avoid something bad from happening, not to mention, I can see in front of the boat I'm following a lot better so that I can prepare to maneuver if need be.

[Woodsy]

When it comes to the 150' rule, I don't get too twisted unless they come danger close within 25' - 30'. I will start to slow down to come off plane, but if the other boat doesn't slow, I will just stay on plane albeit slower. I do think the MP tend to pay a little more attention to PWC's as they are very maneuverable and accelerate quickly.

Woodsy

I have a bigger issue with people going "dead slow" thru the channel!

[Descant]

MP likes to o point to their admirable record of "educational stops" as opposed to giving out a lot of fines/tickets. I like that approach. Woodsy is probably right that Jet skis get a little more attention than larger boats due to operating characteristics. There is even a section of the law that describes running around (often wake jumping) with no discernable course is reckless operation. Jet skis do this, larger boats, not so much.

Woodsy is also right about "dead slow". There is also a rule about going so slow as to impede the safe operation of another vessel. I have a boat (not launched in Winni this year) that idles at 600 rpm. At 600 rpm it goes 6.25 mph but does not create a wake. So that's my No wake speed. However, a boat that is going 2 mph in the Weirs Channel or the Graveyard puts me in a position where wind or wakes could force me out of the channel. Yes, you will get the horn, or my anchor on your flagpole. Keeping a "proper lookout" means 360 degrees, not just your starboard quarter.

[Biggd]

Governors Island bridge area seems to be a common area for jet ski stops!
I wonder if the Governors Island residents are in the MP's ears?

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Descant

MP likes to o point to their admirable record of "educational stops" as opposed to giving out a lot of fines/tickets. I like that approach. Woodsy is probably right that Jet skis get a little more attention than larger boats due to operating characteristics. There is even a section of the law that describes running around (often wake jumping) with no discernable course is reckless operation. Jet skis do this, larger boats, not so much.

Woodsy is also right about "dead slow". There is also a rule about going so slow as to impede the safe operation of another vessel. I have a boat (not launched in Winni this year) that idles at 600 rpm. At 600 rpm it goes 6.25 mph but does not create a wake. So that's my No wake speed. However, a boat that is going 2 mph in the Weirs Channel or the Graveyard puts me in a position where wind or wakes could force me out of the channel. Yes, you will get the horn, or my anchor on your flagpole. Keeping a "proper lookout" means 360 degrees, not just your starboard quarter.

Looking back and seeing no wake does not put you in compliance with NH regs. “No Wake” is now defined as headway speed or, the slowest your boat can go and still maintain control. In Descant’s case if he can maintain headway speed by going slower than 6.5 mph, even if it means shifting in & out of gear, that is what regs require.

Also, the boat in front should be looking 360 as good practice but, the boat in front is the “stand on” boat and the boat in back is the “give way” boat. If you “put the anchor on the flagpole” of the leading boat, you are legally liable.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I think a lot of people have a hard time judging 150' or they use that as an excuse.

Think canoes: most average 15-feet long.

When you can mentally line up 10 of them, there's your 150 feet.



Since I've had several mature trees fall into the lake--through erosion of the shoreline--boaters should be made aware that a mature Hemlock or White Pine can approach 150-feet in height.

Kayakers (only) appear to have taken note.

[Phantom]

Another simple method

One average ski line is 75’ from the boat - double that ( from the skier/tuber) !!

[brk-lnt]

The 150' rule is really one of the dumbest regulations on the lake. It's an unnecessary limitation that is poorly understood/estimated, and randomly enforced. It primarily serves to get a small number of people wound up and stressed out.

[GusMan]

I completely disagree that the 150 rule is dumb or unnecessary. Just seeing how often it's ignored tells me many boaters lack the common sense to pay attention and navigate safely.

If it's misunderstood, it's because boaters just don't care and are just thinking about themselves (what a surprise these days).

I was taught (and I used this guide to teach my children)... if you can clearly decipher another boat's bow numbers... you are within 150 feet. Visually challenged people excepted!

Unfortunately *every* law is under enforced due to lack of personnel.

[rick35]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

The 150' rule is really one of the dumbest regulations on the lake. It's an unnecessary limitation that is poorly understood/estimated, and randomly enforced. It primarily serves to get a small number of people wound up and stressed out.

I was both "wound up and stressed" two days ago when a boat passed me from behind at a high rate of speed about 50 feet away. There was plenty of room to pass farther away and it was very unsettling to suddenly have another boat in my space. So not dumb but hard to enforce.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by rick35

I was both "wound up and stressed" two days ago when a boat passed me from behind at a high rate of speed about 50 feet away. There was plenty of room to pass farther away and it was very unsettling to suddenly have another boat in my space. So not dumb but hard to enforce.

Be glad you are on a New Hampshire lake.

During the winter while we are boating in Florida when travelling at 25 MPH or so we routinely get overtaken by other boats that pass 20 to 30 feet away. It has taken some getting used to because it happens every time we go out.

It is just the way it is. I am surprised that there are not more boating accidents.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

The 150' rule is really one of the dumbest regulations on the lake. It's an unnecessary limitation that is poorly understood/estimated, and randomly enforced. It primarily serves to get a small number of people wound up and stressed out.

As a sailor, I really appreciate the 150' rule. The stress comes not from the rule, but from the impact of a guy giving me a big wake from only 50' away

[rick35]

I've often thought of that. A few weeks back we were heading out to the isles of shoals on the cruise boat and boats were passing close together on the river. I had thought it would be fun to boat there but after seeing that I changed my mind.

[TomC]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Be glad you are on a New Hampshire lake.

During the winter while we are boating in Florida when travelling at 25 MPH or so we routinely get overtaken by other boats that pass 20 to 30 feet away. It has taken some getting used to because it happens every time we go out.

It is just the way it is. I am surprised that there are not more boating accidents.

I boat in the ICW in Southwest Florida... I agree completely. Having been trained in/used to the 150' rule on Winni, its very disconcerting to have another boat 25 ft off (either) side blowing by at full speed...

[whalebackpoint'r]

Originally Posted by ApS

Think canoes: most average 15-feet long.

When you can mentally line up 10 of them, there's your 150 feet.



Since I've had several mature trees fall into the lake--through erosion of the shoreline--boaters should be made aware that a mature Hemlock or White Pine can approach 150-feet in height.

Kayakers (only) appear to have taken note.

Here's another, 1/2 the length of the playing surface of a football field.

[chachee52]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Be glad you are on a New Hampshire lake.

During the winter while we are boating in Florida when travelling at 25 MPH or so we routinely get overtaken by other boats that pass 20 to 30 feet away. It has taken some getting used to because it happens every time we go out.

It is just the way it is. I am surprised that there are not more boating accidents.

Watch Boats Vs Haulover on Youtube and you will see plenty of accidents in FL of people blasting around withing feet of each other and hitting other boats.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

The 150' rule is really one of the dumbest regulations on the lake. It's an unnecessary limitation that is poorly understood/estimated, and randomly enforced. It primarily serves to get a small number of people wound up and stressed out.

Back in the Mesozoic Era--before tubing skiers were in ascendancy and well aware of the danger when two skiers passed in opposite directions. With each at the end of a 75-foot tether, a "meet-up" at 150-feet would occur at double the skiers' speeds.

We skiers had no gripe with the 150-foot rule.

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Be glad you are on a New Hampshire lake. During the winter while we are boating in Florida when travelling at 25 MPH or so we routinely get overtaken by other boats that pass 20 to 30 feet away. It has taken some getting used to because it happens every time we go out. It is just the way it is. I am surprised that there are not more boating accidents.

Florida leads the nation in boating accidents and fatalities.

1) A boater (not personally known to me) living near me in the Florida Keys trailered his speedboat to a canal near my Sebring lake property. With his girlfriend watching, he crashed his boat and drowned.

2) To set a speed record, Craig Arfones, from out-of-state traveled to Lake Jackson (Sebring, again).

So, with a large (3212 acres) quiet lake and his parents watching, he crashed his boat and drowned.

See where I'm going?

3) A half-hour north of Sebring, two professional baseball players ran their bass boat under a dock, which beheaded both of them. (and were pronounced dead at the scene).

These occurred on Florida inland lakes: Ocean crashes are much worse!

PWCs lead the way, with paddle boards catching up. The common denominator being drowning.

I was surprised to see Florida's northern St. Johns County in the lead, but when you factor in Florida's richest County with the wealthiest Counties listed (SE and SW) as the most dangerous for boaters, it sorta adds up!

https://news.wgcu.org/top-story/2024...tate?_amp=true

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by ApS

Back in the Mesozoic Era--before tubing skiers were in ascendancy and well aware of the danger when two skiers passed in opposite directions. With each at the end of a 75-foot tether, a "meet-up" at 150-feet would occur at double the skiers' speeds.

We skiers had no gripe with the 150-foot rule.



Florida leads the nation in boating accidents and fatalities.

1) A boater (not personally known to me) living near me in the Florida Keys trailered his speedboat to a canal near my Sebring lake property. With his girlfriend watching, he crashed his boat and drowned.


2) To set a speed record, Craig Arfones, from out-of-state traveled to Lake Jackson (Sebring, again).

So, with a large (3212 acres) quiet lake and his parents watching, he crashed his boat and drowned.

See where I'm going?

3) A half-hour north of Sebring, two professional baseball players ran their bass boat under a dock, which beheaded both of them. (and were pronounced dead at the scene).

These occurred on Florida inland lakes: Ocean crashes are much worse!

PWCs lead the way, with paddle boards catching up. The common denominator being drowning.

I was surprised to see Florida's northern St. Johns County in the lead, but when you factor in Florida's richest County with the wealthiest Counties listed (SE and SW) as the most dangerous for boaters, it sorta adds up!

https://news.wgcu.org/top-story/2024...tate?_amp=true

Wish they had the 150’ rule in Fla.Locals that are fishing seem to have distain for us snowbirds.Several times we have been just slow cruising the shore and been passed within 20’or 30’ at high speed by the good ol’ boys out fishing and knocking down a few.

[rick35]

At some point you might make the decision that boating isn't for me and find some other activity.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by rick35

At some point you might make the decision that boating isn't for me and find some other activity.

It's this kind of disdain for the happiness of others that makes the whole thing less pleasant for all, regardless of the specific rules

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

It's this kind of disdain for the happiness of others that makes the whole thing less pleasant for all, regardless of the specific rules

Right?!
That attitude can be applied to so many activities...

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

[rick35]

I didn't expect this kind of feedback. And where did you get disdain for the happiness of others? I'll rephrase the intention of my post. If everyday boating is like a trip to the Weirs on a busy Saturday with all that chaos I might decide it doesn't make me happy and decide boating isn't for me. What's that got to do with your or anybody else's happiness?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by rick35

I didn't expect this kind of feedback. And where did you get disdain for the happiness of others? I'll rephrase the intention of my post. If everyday boating is like a trip to the Weirs on a busy Saturday with all that chaos I might decide it doesn't make me happy and decide boating isn't for me. What's that got to do with your or anybody else's happiness?

I took it as being dismissive of the previous poster's disappointment with his boating experience. Essentially, you telling him/her to "get out, if you don't like it."

Thanks for clarifying.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

[The Real BigGuy]

Visited a friend with a place on Sebago. When a boat blasted past us about 20 ft away I asked him about enforcement of the 150’ rule. His response - what 150 rule? They don’t have a safe passage rule in Maine. Very disconcerting when you are in the middle of Sebago, a mile from any land, and a boat buzzes you.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app