Laconia State School Closing Delayed Again

[WinnisquamZ]

As reported in today’s LDS the closing of the state school sale is delayed again. As a few have noted over the past year the buyers (friends of Sununu) are in financial trouble and funding has been pulled.
The excuses of identifying snowmobiling trails and property titles were just a smokescreen to find new funding.
Yes, I am in the camp of never seeing this property developed as identified.


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[Descant]

Can this be cheaply reused as temporary homeless housing?

[8gv]

Maybe it can be used for Colonial Theatre parking?

There could be a solar powered tram system that would also operate on wind and bovine emissions.

[WinnisquamZ]

The state could reestablish a “Hooverville”


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

Can this be cheaply reused as temporary homeless housing?

That would be up to the State, and they would probably think about busing them in from around the region to create a type of community.

Of course, temporary is never temporay... and it may create problems for surrounding areas.

The financing is a pickle because the immediate requirement for purchase is easy, even the twice purchase price development credit requirement is not that hard to meet... but now trying to meet the plan that requires a deep chunk of cash.

[Weekend Pundit]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

As reported in today’s LDS the closing of the state school sale is delayed again. As a few have noted over the past year the buyers (friends of Sununu) are in financial trouble and funding has been pulled.

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Hmm. I have to wonder if the mortgagee auction of 15 & 16 Kimball Road in Gilford taking place in April has something to do with this as the same folks who are buying the state school property were supposedly the same folks who bought the old King's Grant Inn and adjacent property? They had plans to build workforce housing on the two lots - they did a show and tell before the Gilford Planning Board a few months ago - and planned to tear down then build a new King's Grant Inn.

It is a puzzlement...

[John Mercier]

Could be. But she did lose the funding.
The backers were not seeing this as standard workforce housing... but more of planned neighborhood that took lessons from the past developments.

That went out the window...

The LSS project has special federal taxation considerations, so it was worth the $100,000 investment for the specialized tax shelter.
I don't think the King's Grant project will be in the same category.

[TiltonBB]

The potential developer has been given 30 days to close the deal.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...7b2f93439.html

[WinnisquamZ]

Yup. More drama to follow. Next buyer won’t be as friendly to the current governor and executive council. Toss in the city mayor too!


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[dt5150]

The LSS is essentially in my back yard. I hate the thought of that land being developed into what has been proposed. As does everyone who lives in the immediate area. Personally, I think it would be a travesty to eliminate all of that beautiful wildlife habitat.. I'd like to see them incorporate the land into Ahern State Park. They won't though.. they're too addicted to collecting more tax money.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by dt5150

The LSS is essentially in my back yard. I hate the thought of that land being developed into what has been proposed. As does everyone who lives in the immediate area. Personally, I think it would be a travesty to eliminate all of that beautiful wildlife habitat.. I'd like to see them incorporate the land into Ahern State Park. They won't though.. they're too addicted to collecting more tax money.

I second your suggestion of giving it to the state park system. Would like to see a class A RV park seasonal camping ground created.


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[John Mercier]

The State isn't do so well on the Park System which is supposed to be self-funded.

I sat as a stakeholder for SB5, the major NH Parks reform at that time, I had to speak on Endicott Rock, Ellacoya, and Ahern.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by dt5150

The LSS is essentially in my back yard. I hate the thought of that land being developed into what has been proposed. As does everyone who lives in the immediate area. Personally, I think it would be a travesty to eliminate all of that beautiful wildlife habitat.. I'd like to see them incorporate the land into Ahern State Park. They won't though.. they're too addicted to collecting more tax money.

It is the City of Laconia that would collect more taxes. The State would basically get the sales receipt.

I believe the City was given the option to purchase it... and chose not to.
What the City wanted was the now defunct Muskrats to have access to parking within the project. Getting it back on the tax rolls is probably nice... but the City's other concern was more about creating middle class housing.

[dt5150]

I'm told the closing was delayed again, deadline of the 20th?

[John Mercier]

The article pointed out the 22nd.
But I doubt that it will close.

[dt5150]

Good.. I hope it doesn't.

[John Mercier]

The State tried to claim the discontinuance of the snowmobile trail was not part of the original deal... but the deeded access of the snowmobile trail was not part of the original deal.
The land was to transfer without encumbrance.

The lender felt the State is not dealing in good faith.
I highly doubt she will be able to get the lender to rethink that position.
The permanent public access would mean a less than desirable community would be built.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

I second your suggestion of giving it to the state park system. Would like to see a class A RV park seasonal camping ground created.


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This seems like a highest and best use for this open space that's very close to Lake Winnisquam and Ahern State Park. With the Ahern waterfront on Lake Winnisquam it would be a recreational area good for an RV campground, and walking/bicycle path/snowmobile trail.

The area doesn't need any new housing. What it needs is more open space and some bicycle/walking trails.

If people want low priced housing they should move to Berlin, NH.

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by dt5150

The LSS is essentially in my back yard. I hate the thought of that land being developed into what has been proposed. As does everyone who lives in the immediate area. Personally, I think it would be a travesty to eliminate all of that beautiful wildlife habitat.. I'd like to see them incorporate the land into Ahern State Park. They won't though.. they're too addicted to collecting more tax money.

Where have I heard similar concerns....https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=29311

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

This seems like a highest and best use for this open space that's very close to Lake Winnisquam and Ahern State Park. With the Ahern waterfront on Lake Winnisquam it would be a recreational area good for an RV campground, and walking/bicycle path/snowmobile trail.

The area doesn't need any new housing. What it needs is more open space and some bicycle/walking trails.

If people want low priced housing they should move to Berlin, NH.

The State Park system is self-funded and not capable of carrying any more weight. This was brought up during the SB5 study committee developed after Ahern was turned into a State Park.

So while it was discussed... it was turned down.

Neither the City or the State actually have the money for such a large capital expenditure.

So the land will transfer to the lower bids.

The housing is not low priced. It is being designed largely for what most would define as middle income - households roughly around $70K annually... with the home target price of around $350K. But at that number, the lots and homes need to be relatively small roughly around the Old North Main neighborhood post-War square footage.

[WinnisquamZ]

https://newhampshirebulletin.com/202...rities-bureau/


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[John Mercier]

The State officials were counting on the credibility of the funding source.

That funding source is no longer interested in the project.

Coming up with the $21 million, Dolan can do all by himself. The $21 million to match... he may have to stretch for. But the $250 million to even come close to complete the now downsized project... that avenue is closed.

All the other lenders are not charity funds... they are going to want to see sizeable returns in line with the risks associated with such a large project.

[Riviera]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The State officials were counting on the credibility of the funding source. That funding source is no longer interested in the project.

There was no funding source, there was no project, and there was no way that deal was ever going to materialize.

She was searching for investors. She was soliciting over the internet for people to join an “Opportunity Zone Fund”. The solicitation in and of itself was a borderline scam. An Opportunity Zone doesn’t creating funding …. it is simply a way of decreasing taxes for investors that hold an investment over a long period of time. It doesn’t begin to work for real estate developers that intend to develop property/lots for sale.

That land doesn’t begin to be worth $21M. Can anybody show a comparable land sale anywhere north of Concord, where an investor/developer paid over $21M for raw land? That’s nearly $100,000 per acre for RAW LAND, that doesn’t even have sufficient infrastructure for the proposed pie in the sky development program. There are a 100 other lots, with no worse development potential, that can be bought for a heck of a lot less than $100,000 per acre.

And how were they going to build “workforce housing” in Laconia NH, where the maximum sales price of a home (under workforce regulations) for family of four is $325,000. That couldn’t be done, with any semblance of a profit, if the State GAVE them the raw land!

It’s a shame that our state officials don’t have enough expertise to see the emptiness behind the curtain. The viability of the buyer could have been vetted within weeks, if they weren’t hoping for a buyer who needed to win lotto to be dumb enough to pay $21M for that piece of dirt.

Think about this comp …. land just up the street, where the South Down Shores barn is located, sits on 7.7 acres. It is all useable land, has a decent barn, comes with South Down amenities, and has infrastructure to support development. The cost of developing that parcel of land will be relatively small, in terms of typical development costs. That prominent land and barn/office sold for $500,000. That’s $65,000 per acre, for far more valuable land on a cost per acre basis. What makes the LSS property worth $21M? It’s not. It’s that simple. It can’t be financed, it can’t be developed on an economically viable basis at anywhere near that purchase price. Her issues had nothing to do with politics, snowmobile trails, or any other lame excuse.

Hopefully the State will stop trying to chase miracles, and let the property go for a reasonable price, to a developer with a proven track record, with a financial commitment to build something that will benefit the community.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Riviera

There was no funding source, there was no project, and there was no way that deal was ever going to materialize.

She was searching for investors. She was soliciting over the internet for people to join an “Opportunity Zone Fund”. That in and of itself was a borderline scam. An Opportunity Zone doesn’t creating funding …. it is simply a way of decreasing taxes for investors that hold an investment over a long period of time. It doesn’t begin to work for real estate developers that intend to develop property/lots for sale.

That land doesn’t begin to be worth $21M. Can anybody show a comparable land sale anywhere in the State of NH, north of Concord, where an investor/developer paid over $21M for raw land? That’s nearly $100,000 per acre for RAW LAND, that doesn’t even have sufficient infrastructure for the proposed pie in the sky development program. There are a 100 other lots, with no worse development potential, that can be bought for a heck of a lot less than $100,000 per acre.

And how were they going to build “workforce housing” in Laconia NH, where the maximum sales price of a home (under workforce regulations) for family of four is $325,000. That couldn’t be done, with any semblance of a profit, if the State GAVE them the raw land!

It’s a shame that our state officials don’t have enough expertise to see the emptiness behind the curtain. The viability of the buyer could have been vetted within weeks, if they weren’t hoping for a buyer who needed to win lotto to be dumb enough to pay $21M for that piece of dirt.

Think about this comp …. land just up the street, where the South Down Shores barn is located, sits on 7.7 acres. It is all useable land, has a decent barn, comes with South Down amenities, and has decent infrastructre to support development. The cost of developing that parcel of land will be relatively small, in terms of typical development costs. That prominent land and barn/office sold for $500,000. That’s $65,000 per acte, for far more valuable land, on a cost per acre basis. What makes the LSS property worth $21M? It’s not. It’s that simple. It can’t be financed, it can’t be developed on an economically viable basis at anywhere near that purchase price, and it has nothing to do with politics, snowmobile trails, or any other lame excuse.

Hopefully the State will stop trying to chase miracles, and let the property go for a reasonable price, to a developer with a proven track record, and a commitment to build something that will benefit the community.

Well written and said. It’s as simple as “following the money”. Now it makes me wonder if kickbacks were promised


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[Riviera]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Now it makes me wonder if kickbacks were promised
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In order to pay a kickback, you’d need money. She doesn’t have any money, and buying that land wan’t going to generate any money.

That said, it won’t surprise me if she found a few naive investors, and paid herself a “development fee” to manage what she isn’t capable of managing. If the cartoon development plans I saw in the press were any indication of her development skills, that should have been the first red flag.

[John Mercier]

The housing was condensed... multiple units per acre for the apartments.
Sort of like how they will attempt to build at the Weirs traffic circle.

No one wonders why less than 30,000 OHRV adding $2 per registration to a land purchase fund could afford to buy a $2 million dollar property in less than 5 years? You don't think the State knew how I did it?

And there is land going for over $100,000 an acre here in Belmont; but you can only build one unit per acre on that... no apartments.

From Dolan's perspective, paying $21 million for the land, and having to fork out another $21 million to meet the OZ requirements... regardless of how great a hotel/resort could be built... isn't really worth the effort. Especially since that group doesn't care about any residential housing. So they aren't going to back her play to close by the 22nd would be my guess.

Now, if they could acquire the property for half... and only be into the hotel/resort for $21... that may interest them. The OZ tax credits would just be icing on the cake.

The State will do what it must... the homeless are going to shift... and leaving that property open makes the risk greater that they will shift in that direction.

[WinnisquamZ]

Little chance the homeless of Laconia shift away from the downtown area. All services and care are downtown. The WOW makes for an easy commute to each.


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[Riviera]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The housing was condensed... multiple units per acre for the apartments.
Sort of like how they will attempt to build at the Weirs traffic circle.

No one wonders why less than 30,000 OHRV adding $2 per registration to a land purchase fund could afford to buy a $2 million dollar property in less than 5 years? You don't think the State knew how I did it?

And there is land going for over $100,000 an acre here in Belmont; but you can only build one unit per acre on that... no apartments.

From Dolan's perspective, paying $21 million for the land, and having to fork out another $21 million to meet the OZ requirements... regardless of how great a hotel/resort could be built... isn't really worth the effort. Especially since that group doesn't care about any housing. So they aren't going to back her play to close by the 22nd would be my guess.

Now, if they could acquire the property for half... and only be into the hotel/resort for $21... that may interest them. The OZ tax credits would just be icing on the cake.

The State will do what it must... the homeless are going to shift... and leaving that property open makes the risk greater that they will shift in that direction.

Well, you seem to think you understand it pretty well, and the value is there, so I’ll bite:

1. Apartments: There is plenty of land in Laconia zoned for multifamily, that can be acquired for far less than $100,000 per acre. How about the 231 acres available on Endicott Street North, at an asking price of $5,000,000, which equates to just over $20,000 per acre. Multifamily is a permitted use, along with hotel and single family residential. It’s been on the MLS for nearly 4 years. Why isn’t that a better deal at about 1/4 the price per acre, and why hasn’t that property been gobbled up, given its apparent undervaluation?

2. Opportunity Zone: Explain to us how the “other $21M” works in an Opportunity Zone, or maybe the general benefit to buying OZ property. You mentioned tax credits from the OZ. What are those credits, and how can they be used? Assuming the developer were going to build and sell homes, what benefit will they receive from the OZ, and when will they receive that benefit? I can tell you that there is NO benefit to a land developer in an OZ unless that developer were to build out the assets, and hold those assets for at least 10 years before selling. Anything related to OZ by this developer is a smokescreen because most people don’t understand the OZ benefits, nor requirements.

3. Belmont: Please name any bulk (say 25+ acres) raw land sale in Belmont NH that has sold at a price anywhere close to $100,000 per acre. Heck, I’ll take any town north of Concord, as long as you exclude properties that are on a major retail thoroughfare.

4. Hotel: Please provide us with a hotel land sale comp anywhere in NH where the developer paid over $5,000,000 for raw land. And what makes this particular site attractive to a hotel developer, as compared to any site in closer proximity to restaurants, attractions, or other businesses? Can you provide us any comparable hotel development in which Mr. Dolan is a principal majority owner of the development? You seem to know his financial position, so you must have similar ownership comps at the tip of your tongue. They were proposing a hotel with a conference center. When was the last time one of those was built in NH without public subsidies?

5. Please explain how the $2 OHRV fee is in any way applicable to the land valuation for this property. Regardless of the applicability, whatever “you” did would probably be interesting to hear about, so go for it.

Thanks.

[John Mercier]

The ''party zone''. That is going to have to get a lot cheaper or go after a different set of residential owners.

For the OZ benefits...
If taxpayers keep the investment for at least five years, they may exclude 10 percent of the gain from their taxable income. Taxpayers who hold onto the investment for seven years may exclude 15 percent of the gain from their taxable income. These provisions sunset after 2026.
If taxpayers hold onto the investment for at least 10 years, they still must pay tax on the original capital gain but do not pay additional tax on the new gain from their investment.

The investors that would hold would be in the commercial part of the project... as the compact single homes were to be sold.

And this would be major retail throughfare... as that is part of the development proposal. But you are trying to compare a single unit site to a multi-unit site. 1200 housing units on 200 acres would equate to how many units on the SD piece? And no commercial on the SD piece.

For the hotel, I think the attractiveness was simply the opportunity.
Rusty was on the committee that looked over the property... he has had several hotel projects shutdown over the years, and was finally lucky enough that Meredith went along with Church Landing.
Personally, I think the Opechee operation is a better investment... but that isn't up for sale.

The OHRV was how the State realized that a funding source exists that is not part of the banking equation that they are used to. The money appeared without any expectation of return on investment.

A new buyer will pay less... but they aren't going to go along with all the demands of the State and City when they don't make financial sense or fit into traditional funding sources.

That means that the property would worth less than the $20,000 per acre... and only fetch the State about $4 million... but the other bids were more than double that price. So now you have to ask... why so high on the other bids?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Little chance the homeless of Laconia shift away from the downtown area. All services and care are downtown. The WOW makes for an easy commute to each.


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They were camped over near the bypass... not that easy a commute.
Not even really easy access to water or a port-a-potty like they could get at Ahern.

It is only a matter of time before the city central will need to make a decision... investment in the downtown would suffer.

[John Mercier]

Called our guy on the Endicott property...
He walked it three years ago.

It will have high development costs as compared to flat farmland.

But it is in our files should the owner wish to reduce the price and have turned into something a little less grandiose of a development. He stated that the price hadn't come down.

He will be busy walking a property in Franklin this weekend... but maybe I will sneak out to see if he was missing something in his assessment.

[Riviera]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

That means that the property would worth less than the $20,000 per acre...

Finally something we can agree upon.

So, no tax credits, right?
No ownership history for Dolan?
No basis for hotel land value, just an “opportunity”?
No comps in Belmont, or anywhere else?
No up front cash benefit for an opportunity zone, right?
Can’t sell land as an opportunity zone investor, right?
Only a tax saving on long term profits on an opportunity zone, right?

The whole thing was a farce.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

They were camped over near the bypass... not that easy a commute.
Not even really easy access to water or a port-a-potty like they could get at Ahern.

It is only a matter of time before the city central will need to make a decision... investment in the downtown would suffer.

Downtown Laconia is already seeing the effects of the homeless hanging around. The coffee event held last year has moved to Concord. The pumpkin fest wants to move to the Weirs due to the homeless. Is there a fix? No. Not today. It will take the downtown businesses to fix it


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[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Downtown Laconia is already seeing the effects of the homeless hanging around. The coffee event held last year has moved to Concord. The pumpkin fest wants to move to the Weirs due to the homeless. Is there a fix? No. Not today. It will take the downtown businesses to fix it


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Politicians at all levels will only attack what can be fixed by the next election cycle.

[TiltonBB]

From the Laconia Sun:

State School property buyer Robynne Alexander is under investigation by state securities bureau.

It’s the latest development in Alexander’s history of real estate problems that includes at least nine lawsuits from investors, three foreclosures, and unpaid taxes in multiple municipalities.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...44e51e2f1.html

[Major]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Downtown Laconia is already seeing the effects of the homeless hanging around. The coffee event held last year has moved to Concord. The pumpkin fest wants to move to the Weirs due to the homeless. Is there a fix? No. Not today. It will take the downtown businesses to fix it


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Winnisquam, there is a fix. Zero tolerance. If the LPD adopted a zero tolerance policy of either arresting or transporting vagrants to the city line (much like Sherriff Teasel in First Blood, but hopefully with better results), we could solve the homeless problem immediately. We welcome the homeless in our community and the word is spreading. Beyond the rehab centers, we have an attractive nuisance on New Salem Street that exacerbates the problem. If we were much more unwelcoming so to speak it would stop. Our homeless issue is a smaller example of our border crisis, we have the tools and the know how to stop it, we just don't want to, most likely because of money homelessness brings to the City.

[John Mercier]

And what City Line are you intending to transport them to?
Gilford?
Meredith?

Because the last BOS for Belmont the idea was to move them up along the rail line toward Laconia. Problem being they are on State land and out of our jurisdiction.

I don't know the rail line well, but I would say that the City is going to want them above Lakeport, but below South Down. Or maybe above South Down, but below the Weirs.

The only other State land that I can think of is Ahern and the LSS that would be large enough to maybe be occupied in a manner that they would be ''unseen''.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Riviera

Finally something we can agree upon.

So, no tax credits, right?
No ownership history for Dolan?
No basis for hotel land value, just an “opportunity”?
No comps in Belmont, or anywhere else?
No up front cash benefit for an opportunity zone, right?
Can’t sell land as an opportunity zone investor, right?
Only a tax saving on long term profits on an opportunity zone, right?

The whole thing was a farce.

Answer my question first... why would the other bids be higher than the $20,000 per acre that you propose is the real market value?

As for Tom Dolan's background... it was good enough for Rusty.
Are you going to suggest that Rusty knows nothing about developing and managing a hotel business?

[Major]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

And what City Line are you intending to transport them to?
Gilford?
Meredith?

Because the last BOS for Belmont the idea was to move them up along the rail line toward Laconia. Problem being they are on State land and out of our jurisdiction.

I don't know the rail line well, but I would say that the City is going to want them above Lakeport, but below South Down. Or maybe above South Down, but below the Weirs.

The only other State land that I can think of is Ahern and the LSS that would be large enough to maybe be occupied in a manner that they would be ''unseen''.

As long as it's not Laconia, I don't care. If Belmont wants to welcome them, then let them have them.

John, the point is that if the community (City) makes the decision that homelessness, visible drug use, etc. are not tolerated, it will go away. It will be up to other communities to decide whether it will tolerate this type of behavior. If all communities eventually decide not to tolerated it, then eventually it will go away.

This is a societal issue. If we eliminate any and all funding, and enforce the already existing laws the prohibit this behavior, then that's a step in the right direction. I would much rather invest in prisons than trying to "help" them. We have definitive evidence that "helping" does not work.

[John Mercier]

Belmont isn't welcoming them... just pushing them back to Laconia.
Problem is the rail corridor is State of NH, and the only charge available unless they have drugs/etc is trespass. The landowner has to make the trespass charge.

And we have a lot more just barely above water headed in that direction...

[Descant]

How many people are we really talking about here, after the non-profits and other agencies provide shelter? A couple dozen? A couple hundred? More? Where do the numbers (the numbers, not the people) come from? How do we know the numbers are accurate? Are they stable from year to year?

[John Mercier]

The LDS interview of 50 ''unhoused'' estimated about 400 - but that was only Laconia, and they did note the number was growing.

More than a few posters have noted the negative effect it is having on downtown Laconia. I drive through... but barely notice them.

My only business in Laconia is the bank... and that is convenience, due to travel route/ATM access.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Descant

How many people are we really talking about here, after the non-profits and other agencies provide shelter? A couple dozen? A couple hundred? More? Where do the numbers (the numbers, not the people) come from? How do we know the numbers are accurate? Are they stable from year to year?

Agree. The actual numbers are unknown and change depending on the season. Do remember the Mayor of Laconia making a statement about 40 homeless children are attending Laconia Schools. Personal I find this a ridicules statement. The city should complete a monthly count and identity survey of each individual


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[Major]

Over the years, a number of articles have been written about the scope of the problem. My guess is that there is between 100 and 200 homeless people in Laconia, maybe more. The problem is significant, with several public forums dedicated to "solving" the problem. Although there hasn't been a public forum for some time.

If I were the grand poobah of Laconia, my solution to the problem would be 1) prohibit rehab centers, 2) prohibit/reduce the number of homeless shelters, and to the extent they exist, make them clean homeless shelters, 3) move the welfare office to another town, 4) enforce vagrancy laws, and 5) implement a stop and frisk policy.

Believe me, if were a pain in the you know what to be homeless in Laconia, they would find some other place to ply their trade. Let it be someone else's problem, until there are no other places to go. Being "kind" has not solved this or any other type of similar social problem. The only way to go is to be strict.

My two cents.

[John Mercier]

You'd have to be bigger than poobah of Laconia.

1) State requires the local municipality to pay for shelter
3) State requires each municipality to have a Welfare Administrator
4) What vagrancy law?
5) Violation of constitutional protections of the 4th Amendment.

The problem is our ''working poor'', and I know that they don't like that term, make zero attempts to move into the middle class.

I can understand someone fresh out of school and starting their career not to have emergency funds and retirement savings... but not all of these are young people.

We have also, through our voting and support of certain economic venues, restricted housing to the point that once lost, acquiring new... even for someone of means... can be quite daunting.

Gone are the days were renters look for a small apartment to save money for the down payment and closing costs on a home. And long gone are the days were we support homes that our GIs from the Greatest Generation used to Make America Great during the 50s. Levittown size lots and houses are simply no longer available in most cases... especially for young middle class families.

We chose this path... and though we are unhappy with some of the outcome... just keep trudging along.

[WinnisquamZ]

Interesting what is happening in Manchester
https://nhjournal.com/manchesters-co...efore-hearing/


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[Major]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

You'd have to be bigger than poobah of Laconia.

1) State requires the local municipality to pay for shelter
3) State requires each municipality to have a Welfare Administrator
4) What vagrancy law?
5) Violation of constitutional protections of the 4th Amendment.

The problem is our ''working poor'', and I know that they don't like that term, make zero attempts to move into the middle class.

We chose this path... and though we are unhappy with some of the outcome... just keep trudging along.

We can change the path. Regarding no. 1, as we have seen with our federal government, laws can be ignored with impunity. Regarding no. 2, while there may be a public welfare requirement for each town, the town can set up it's own procedure. There is nothing preventing a town from having to go to another town for benefits. Regarding no. 3, Section 201-6 states that "No person or persons shall sit, stand or lounge on a public way in or about any doors, windows or passageways, except the owners or occupants of the premises, after having been requested by the owner, occupant or any police officer to depart therefrom." Sidewalks are considered public ways. Regarding no. 4, stop and frisk has been constitutionally adjudicated as being acceptable. (" Stop and frisk law must be based on more than whimsy but less than probable cause; it must be based on (1) reasonable suspicion, (2) good cause to believe, and (3) articulable suspicion.") I think seeing someone walking with two bikes, or their entire possessions in a backpack, is reasonable suspicion.

I think you are missing my point John, if we as a community say we are not going to tolerate this (and other types) of bad behavior, and elect politicians committed to a zero tolerance policy, we can end the madness. You raise issues addressing the plight of the American middle class. I'm talking about eliminating the homelessness problem.

[John Mercier]

I don't think so.
#1 was placed into law by what was considered the most conservative Republicans in our State history.
I seriously doubt that the State would take on an expense that it didn't have to.

And the ''procedure'' is for application. The RSA is very specific on transfer of expenses to another municipality.

So you mean ''Loitering''?
Its the camping... and since it is State land... a little different.

We not only tolerate it... we promote it.
The causes of homelessness are promoted by the City.

[Major]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

We not only tolerate it... we promote it.
The causes of homelessness are promoted by the City.

This, we can completely agree on! Our City Council's policies have created the problem.

[John Mercier]

The seeds for this were sown way back decades ago... which is why the State made the effort to protect itself and make this local.

[magicrobotmonkey]

"I think seeing someone walking with two bikes, or their entire possessions in a backpack, is reasonable suspicion."

reasonable suspicion of what?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by magicrobotmonkey

"I think seeing someone walking with two bikes, or their entire possessions in a backpack, is reasonable suspicion."

reasonable suspicion of what?

That they are part of the ''Gypsy Tour''...

[Major]

Originally Posted by magicrobotmonkey

"I think seeing someone walking with two bikes, or their entire possessions in a backpack, is reasonable suspicion."

reasonable suspicion of what?

1) that they stole at least one of the bikes, and 2) that they are up to no good.

This reminds me of a story that I've shared before on this Forum. In the Army (National Guard, which is part time), I prosecuted and represented many soldiers accused of various things. A lot of them for illegal drug use, mostly marijuana and cocaine. I was having lunch with a couple of young (left-leaning) associates at my firm, and mentioned that if a soldier accused of testing positive for drug use had a prior offense, s/he definitely did it. Keep in mind, the individual only got caught, and most certainly committed many more offenses. The two young associates said "You can't believe that!" They had no real life experiences, no common sense. They've never dealt with anyone accused of a crime.

Anyone with common sense, and have first hand witnessed the homelessness problem in Laconia, understands.

[John Mercier]

But they are not loitering so you have to have a crime...

The most you could do is push them towards the Welfare Administrator.

Arresting them simply moves the problem to the county farm... and still adds to the cost of the taxpayers. So not really solving anything.

[WinnisquamZ]

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...9c6756a24.html
I always find it fascinating when the environmentalists enter the conversation. Their timing is impeccable


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[John Mercier]

Ahern State Park is not part of the sale...
And they have been birdwatching there for quite some time.
The LDS is the only one tying the two properties together.

[John Mercier]

She failed to complete another one.

When you lose the special financing and grant deals that make the full scope of the project work, and then have to rely on the ''generosity'' of just the anchor investor. Always important to remember that a little bit of something is better than a lot of nothing.

[WinnisquamZ]

Generosity. You are kind. She is under investigation again. She is a thief and liar and her bid should never have been selected for this project


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[TiltonBB]

No deal. The property is back on the market.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...49d83ef3e.html

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

No deal. The property is back on the market.



https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...49d83ef3e.html

Yes. It will be interesting to see how it moves forward. Thinking the next buyer will be more profit driven and less likely to meet the “pie in the sky” demands of the city.


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Generosity. You are kind. She is under investigation again. She is a thief and liar and her bid should never have been selected for this project


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The State wasn't being honest either.
The property was to be transferred without ''encumbrance''.

That is going to be leverage for a much lower price...

[Riviera]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

She failed to complete another one.

When you lose the special financing and grant deals

What "special financing and grant deals"?

Originally Posted by John Mercier

rely on the ''generosity'' of just the anchor investor.

What "anchor investor"? She talked about one, but never named one. Can you name one?

This was hogwash from the start. Shen never had the money, and never had a lender commitment .... at least not one without a boatload of unobtainable contingencies. She couldn't possibly do this land development deal under any sort of "Opportunity Zone" program, because that program requires that you hold the asset, not sell homes, condos, or lots.

The whole snowmobile trail thing was a red herring to delay the deal. She was just hoping to find a bunch of naive 1031 trade investors to buy the land, and pay herself a management fee out of the investor proceeds. It won't surprise me if the State is investigating her because she has already spent investor money to hire her "spokesperson", get some concept plans done, and pay herself a "developer's fee". If she told investors it was an Opportunity Fund, and she spent the $, those investors will not only lose their investment, but will likely also lose the tax benefit they anticipated when they handed her a check. They may be out more than they invested

Total scam, and the State should have seen it the second she mentioned Opportunity Zone.

[John Mercier]

Regent provides grants and low interest financing to projects in NH.

LaCroix is the anchor investor. Which is also actually a group of investors rather than one person.

The contingencies was a deed free of encumbrance.
The State worked diligently on that, right up to the point that it decided to add one that did not exist prior... deeded access for a snowmobile corridor.

You seem to forget that the Governor and Executive Councilors, along with a very large staff, were involved in doing the ''due diligence'' on all the firms involved.
That the LRPC headed up by Bald and having several local politicians and a city official on-board were also supposedly doing ''due diligence''.

McCoy and Alexander were not the best front people for the project, but Arlinghaus and the others felt confident in the LaCroix team...

The team includes:
– TF Moran – an engineering firm based in Bedford. TF Moran’s portfolio includes one of the state’s largest mixed-use projects currently in development – Woodmont Commons.
Principals Dylan Cruess (COO) and Robert Duval (President) are directly involved in the Legacy Project. Other large, notable TF Moran projects include SNHU Arena in Manchester, much of the past 20 years of work at both St. Anselm and Southern NH University, the Manchester Riverfront Development, Granite Ridge Power in Londonderry and the stormwater pollution prevention plans for the $800 million widening of I-93 from Salem to Manchester.
– Hinkley Allen – Legal counsel. Based in Manchester and Boston, Hinkley Allen is providing guidance and legal counsel to Legacy at Laconia. Experienced real estate development attorney John Sokul is working directly with Legacy. He represents owners, developers, retailers, and investors in the acquisition, permitting, development, financing, leasing, and operations of commercial properties and shopping centers throughout New Hampshire and Massachusetts. Sokul is currently advising the development of Tuscan Village, one of NH’s largest and most complex redevelopment projects in Salem. Hinkley Allen partner and construction industry veteran Ron Ciotti is also representing Legacy.
– North and South Construction Services
Construction. Based in Newington its chief executive officer is Pete Johnson. In 2006 he co-founded North & South Construction Services providing commercial, industrial, and institutional construction services.
– Interiors East
Architectural Planning and Design
Founder Jim Wisniewski is one of the owners of the Legacy team.
Interiors East was established in 1996 as a full-service studio offering a full scope of architectural services – from a project’s inception, through planning, design, and development, to construction documentation.
– Kristy Lacroix – the Lacroix Experience
Lacroix has been involved with the disability community for almost 30 years. She created Wheelchair Escapes over 20 years ago to facilitate fun vacations and travel for people with disabilities and their families.

The OZ is still intact, so maybe they jump for with the commercial aspects of the property and leave the workforce housing to another location.
Getting the property for less is just a bonus.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Regent provides grants and low interest financing to projects in NH.

LaCroix is the anchor investor. Which is also actually a group of investors rather than one person.

The contingencies was a deed free of encumbrance.
The State worked diligently on that, right up to the point that it decided to add one that did not exist prior... deeded access for a snowmobile corridor.

You seem to forget that the Governor and Executive Councilors, along with a very large staff, were involved in doing the ''due diligence'' on all the firms involved.
That the LRPC headed up by Bald and having several local politicians and a city official on-board were also supposedly doing ''due diligence''.

McCoy and Alexander were not the best front people for the project, but Arlinghaus and the others felt confident in the LaCroix team...

The team includes:
– TF Moran – an engineering firm based in Bedford. TF Moran’s portfolio includes one of the state’s largest mixed-use projects currently in development – Woodmont Commons.
Principals Dylan Cruess (COO) and Robert Duval (President) are directly involved in the Legacy Project. Other large, notable TF Moran projects include SNHU Arena in Manchester, much of the past 20 years of work at both St. Anselm and Southern NH University, the Manchester Riverfront Development, Granite Ridge Power in Londonderry and the stormwater pollution prevention plans for the $800 million widening of I-93 from Salem to Manchester.
– Hinkley Allen – Legal counsel. Based in Manchester and Boston, Hinkley Allen is providing guidance and legal counsel to Legacy at Laconia. Experienced real estate development attorney John Sokul is working directly with Legacy. He represents owners, developers, retailers, and investors in the acquisition, permitting, development, financing, leasing, and operations of commercial properties and shopping centers throughout New Hampshire and Massachusetts. Sokul is currently advising the development of Tuscan Village, one of NH’s largest and most complex redevelopment projects in Salem. Hinkley Allen partner and construction industry veteran Ron Ciotti is also representing Legacy.
– North and South Construction Services
Construction. Based in Newington its chief executive officer is Pete Johnson. In 2006 he co-founded North & South Construction Services providing commercial, industrial, and institutional construction services.
– Interiors East
Architectural Planning and Design
Founder Jim Wisniewski is one of the owners of the Legacy team.
Interiors East was established in 1996 as a full-service studio offering a full scope of architectural services – from a project’s inception, through planning, design, and development, to construction documentation.
– Kristy Lacroix – the Lacroix Experience
Lacroix has been involved with the disability community for almost 30 years. She created Wheelchair Escapes over 20 years ago to facilitate fun vacations and travel for people with disabilities and their families.

The OZ is still intact, so maybe they jump for with the commercial aspects of the property and leave the workforce housing to another location.
Getting the property for less is just a bonus.

John, you are a man of many words. I wrote when this happened she never had the financial support to start never mind complete and you disagreed. Now we get to see it be broken up into high end house lots with beautiful lake views


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[Descant]

John Mercier--That's list of strong, reputable folks. If they did even a quick look-see, how did they get into this with this developer with questionable qualifications? People in these industries usually know pretty well who is good and who is not so good before they even open the envelope.

[John Mercier]

Various groups have been using ''fronts'' because they don't like the negative social media when people are unhappy with their projects.

If you check any of the projects done by these people the negative response by what seems like a lot of the public (usually just a few voices is a turn off).

It is especially difficult when dealing with politicians... they tend to have the spine of a jellyfish.

Even Regent is only a front for roughly 133 different funds that do a mixture of grants and low cost construction financing for projects with varying aspects.

But if you need an example... look how much headache the diocese took just over trying to trim down the RCC holding in Laconia. Or any of the comments we get on the condo projects.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Various groups have been using ''fronts'' because they don't like the negative social media when people are unhappy with their projects.

If you check any of the projects done by these people the negative response by what seems like a lot of the public (usually just a few voices is a turn off).

It is especially difficult when dealing with politicians... they tend to have the spine of a jellyfish.

Even Regent is only a front for roughly 133 different funds that do a mixture of grants and low cost construction financing for projects with varying aspects.

But if you need an example... look how much headache the diocese took just over trying to trim down the RCC holding in Laconia. Or any of the comments we get on the condo projects.

The same diocese that sold the downtown property to a couple that told everyone it was their forever home. Only to clean it up and list it for a profit. The residents have every right to be hesitant when these “feel good” projects come up


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

The same diocese that sold the downtown property to a couple that told everyone it was their forever home. Only to clean it up and list it for a profit. The residents have every right to be hesitant when these “feel good” projects come up


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Why?
Was it your property?

If someone else decides to sell their property, what business is it of yours?

And if you felt the property was going for too little, the diocese would have sold it to you for a higher price...

Even the ''residents'' could have jumped in with a higher price... but coughing up that tax money was just something they couldn't bring themselves to do.

[The Real BigGuy]

John, you should start your own work from home PR firm. I’m being serious. You do the research and weave a good story!


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[tis]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

John, you should start your own work from home PR firm. I’m being serious. You do the research and weave a good story!

No, I think he needs to start a PI firm. He can investigate anything.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

John, you should start your own work from home PR firm. I’m being serious. You do the research and weave a good story!


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The research was done and printed for anybody that wanted to look it up.
The LRPC and Arlinghaus made sure that it was all in the media information.

I find that people can't seem to find the information because they don't want to.

But recent media reports shows the parcel back on the market and the website to use to make a bid... so even the supposed second and third bidders have removed themselves from the project.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by tis

No, I think he needs to start a PI firm. He can investigate anything.

It shouldn't be that hard. Everyone that went to school in Laconia has been doing research papers since the 6th grade.
The internet just means that I don't have to spend my evenings and weekends sitting in the Laconia Library reference room or looking at microfiche like in the old days.

For instance, if paying attention, C&K will sell the Lakeport store. The obvious buyer would be Antaeus Holdings, but they have been burnt on previous acquisitions due to public debate.

It doesn't have a lot of parking... so it is hard to picture what anyone else would use it for.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by tis

No, I think he needs to start a PI firm. He can investigate anything.

Maybe a combo PI/PR firm. That would be very interesting! “I found out this and this is how we use it”


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[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

It shouldn't be that hard. Everyone that went to school in Laconia has been doing research papers since the 6th grade.
The internet just means that I don't have to spend my evenings and weekends sitting in the Laconia Library reference room or looking at microfiche like in the old days.

For instance, if paying attention, C&K will sell the Lakeport store. The obvious buyer would be Antaeus Holdings, but they have been burnt on previous acquisitions due to public debate.

It doesn't have a lot of parking... so it is hard to picture what anyone else would use it for.

It get torn down for opera house parking. Remember, three condos have yet to be developed


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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

John, you should start your own work from home PR firm. I’m being serious. You do the research and weave a good story!


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I try to avoid Johns at all costs.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

It get torn down for opera house parking. Remember, three condos have yet to be developed


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Wow that was quick.
Justin just announced the sale April 8th.
Torn down in less than three weeks... I didn't think the city boards could work that quick.

[WinnisquamZ]

I know. Just went by. The building is down and they are paving tomorrow. Did just hear the city wants spaces few for senior housing and the homeless.


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[John Mercier]

I went down Elm St at around 6PM. Hit Union Ave and looked to the right... building is exactly where it has always been.

[Major]

The C&K building is still there. Drove by today.


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[John Mercier]

I figure it will either need to be torn down or be another charitable outlay.

[fatlazyless]

For the last twenty four years since 2000 ..... http://www.aol.com/lakes-region-fire...225000273.html ..... the Lakes Region Fire District has called their former Laconia State School property their home, and they want to stay there.

[fatlazyless]

Sept 25, 2024: Market Basket real estate group wins their bid to buy 200-acre Laconia State School property close to Lake Winnisquam.

Am uncertain whether this property is directly on Lake Winnisquam or just close to Lake Winnisquam and Ahern State Park. Probably, the Lake Winnisquam waterfront became private homes many years ago, and only Ahern State Park has waterfront on Lake Winnisquam.

Ditto that for Lake Opechee; the State School Land is close to Lake Opechee but not actually on the waterfront.

This seems like excellent news that a Market Basket real estate group has come out with the winning bid.

You know if Market Basket can create and sell a 1.5 qt ice cream container of vanilla and chocolate ice cream in a mostly red oval shaped container that sells for $3.09 there is NO DOUBT in my mind that this will become a totally excellent real estate development, good-to-go for the next 200-years.

Three cheers for the Market Basket development group, aka Pillsbury Realty, just like that Pillsbury doughboy, who bid 10.5-million dollars with some smart contingencies attached.

Probably the #1 best thing to happen to Laconia in this, the 21st century.

May God bless the Pillsbury Realty group, a Market Basket real estate group and all their dedicated and devoted people who will make this to be a big success story for the next 100-years, plus.

Me-thinks the City of Laconia just won a big win with this new developement, big time, and long time! ......

[Biggd]

Demoulas Market Basket chain just agreed to buy the property for 10 million.
That's a lot of acreage for a Super Market.

[tummyman]

Probably going to have lots of housing and those people have to shop/eat somewhere. Perfect solution...live here and shop at our food store and the mall stores that will follow !! Trust them...whatever they build will be top notch and affordable. Praying for MB closer to M'boro.

[Flotnjr]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Demoulas Market Basket chain just agreed to buy the property for 10 million.
That's a lot of acreage for a Super Market.

https://indepthnh.org/2024/09/26/lac...-finally-here/

Doesn't sound like Market Basket (although I would love one closer) but an heir to the throne...

[WinnisquamZ]

Interesting read. 3-10 years to complete once closed. 2 years to close. At lot can happen in that timeline. Interesting.
https://newhampshirebulletin.com/202...-outdoor-yoga/


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[fatlazyless]

Choosing to name it Laconia Village is an excellent name. "Laconia Village" is only two words but it goes a long way to describe and identify it. That name, Laconia Village, will quickly be known all around the State of New Hampshire and down south in Massachusetts.