Wolfeboro Hit and Run

[thinkxingu]

My wife just shared this with me. Poor Chris Craft.

https://indepthnh.org/2023/08/13/wol...investigation/

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[wingnuts]

WMUR is posting the same story with the same two pictures now...

[ishoot308]

Unbelievable….what a shame!

[FlyingScot]

Sad and disgusting, especially to an irreplaceable boat. Happy to see the ID'd the guys, looking forward to heavy punishment

[Susie Cougar]

I can see that the beach area is roped off around the raft for swimming and safety, I am assuming. Do you think that he hit a rock which pushed him off course and into the boat or what is anyone speculating?

[TheTimeTraveler]

Maybe alcohol was involved ?

Obviously some very poor judgement was involved in leaving the scene but maybe they'll blame it on the bottle.

[tis]

We just went by. There are three barges, 2 MP Cars, and caution tape there. The boat hasn't been moved. The wooden boat was taken out.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by tis

We just went by. There are three barges, 2 MP Cars, and caution tape there. The boat hasn't been moved. The wooden boat was taken out.

"Caution" tape or "Crime Scene" tape?

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Sad and disgusting, especially to an irreplaceable boat. Happy to see the ID'd the guys, looking forward to heavy punishment

The dock doesn't look so good, either...

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

Maybe alcohol was involved ?
Obviously some very poor judgement was involved in leaving the scene but maybe they'll blame it on the bottle.

Let's not speculate now.

We'll have the full story soon...

Y'know, like the Nipple Rock crash.

[tis]

Originally Posted by ApS

"Caution" tape or "Crime Scene" tape?

It was hard to tell -it was yellow.

[codeman671]

The owner of this boat is a menace. It is the same one that was found on the rocks a few years ago. The picture of them leaving in the getaway boat is priceless!

I saw this boat in Meredith a few years ago. Probably 20 people on it partying hard. They pulled into the docks to reload on beer. Multiple cases were carried across the street and loaded on so the party could rage on.

Sorry, pics from my phone often load upside down!

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by codeman671

The owner of this boat is a menace. It is the same one that was found on the rocks a few years ago. The picture of them leaving in the getaway boat is priceless!

I saw this boat in Meredith a few years ago. Probably 20 people on it partying hard. They pulled into the docks to reload on beer. Multiple cases were carried across the street and loaded on so the party could rage on.

Sorry, pics from my phone often load upside down!

Back upside up

[Tank151]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

Back upside up

These folks are losers and give boatin a real bad name! Take away their boating privileges and vehicular licenses for life!

[John Mercier]

So what is the punishment for leaving the scene of a boating accident and not reporting it?

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

So what is the punishment for leaving the scene of a boating accident and not reporting it?

Since it’s State Police, I’m betting leaving the scene of a boating accident is the same as leaving the scene of a car accident. As far as alcohol use - there is now no way to prove it. May have been why they left the scene but, we’ll never know for sure.

Sad about the beautiful Chris-Craft but at least no one was hurt.


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[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Since it’s State Police, I’m betting leaving the scene of a boating accident is the same as leaving the scene of a car accident. As far as alcohol use - there is now no way to prove it. May have been why they left the scene but, we’ll never know for sure.

Sad about the beautiful Chris-Craft but at least no one was hurt.


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Very sad about the old woody.

Maybe in addition to conduct after an accident charge to the driver, the other driver of the get away boat should be charged with accessory after the fact.

Alan

[SAB1]

Only reason they fled was they were hammered. No other reason to run. You just put a boat worth $100k on the a dock. They are gonna get caught cause you know they gotta call their insurance company lol.

[John Mercier]

Well, I was thinking they must impound the boat until after the trial.
As well as remove boating license until such time... and if found guilty... could they lose their boating license forever?

They had time to report it the next day... but seems they didn't bother.
The damage is well over $1000, but I don't know what the reporting timeline is.

Would this be a big enough event to trigger a round of LSRs to enhance penalties?

[Cobaltdeadhead]

Both the owner of the Sea Ray and the Wellcraft should lose their boating licenses for ten years. Even if they can't prove impairment, leaving the scene of an accident should result in that steep of a penalty. Especially for Sea Ray guy. Second wreck of his in two years

[Mallets Bay]

AND...tampering with evidence, willful misconduct, reckless endangerment, and obstruction.

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Since it’s State Police, I’m betting leaving the scene of a boating accident is the same as leaving the scene of a car accident. As far as alcohol use - there is now no way to prove it. May have been why they left the scene but, we’ll never know for sure.

Sad about the beautiful Chris-Craft but at least no one was hurt.


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Since it’s State Police, I’m betting leaving the scene of a boating accident is the same as leaving the scene of a car accident. As far as alcohol use - there is now no way to prove it. May have been why they left the scene but, we’ll never know for sure.

Sad about the beautiful Chris-Craft but at least no one was hurt.


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On the alcohol--I'm pretty sure that there are going to be a number of people on each boat who will want to testify after the police explain their own legal peril to them. For example...

Driver of getaway boat: "I wasn't helping someone flee the scene of the crime...I got a call that my friend was completely trashed and had run his boat up on the rocks...I didn't even see the woody...I just wanted to get my drunk buddies home before they got hurt"

[The Real BigGuy]

I’m sure they are “lawyered up” and are planning the usual defenses (I wasn’t on the boat, someone stole my boat, there must be a boat like mine w/a falsified registration number, etc.). Hope he/they get more than a slap on the wrist! Not sure taking someone’s boating license will stop these guys from operating.


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[Cobaltdeadhead]

Make a condition of operating with a suspended license the same as a car; you get caught, you go to jail. This wealthy A-hole should not be above the law

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

Make a condition of operating with a suspended license the same as a car; you get caught, you go to jail. This wealthy A-hole should not be above the law

Wealthy = bad?


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[tis]

The boat is regularly in Winter Harbor visiting someone. I didn't know people owned their own cranes. How does that work?

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by tis

The boat is regularly in Winter Harbor visiting someone. I didn't know people owned their own cranes. How does that work?

You go into the crane business and buy some cranes. You hire operators and rent them out. People use them, usually on construction sites, and the crane owner hopes to make money.

There you go. No need to thank me.

[tis]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

You go into the crane business and buy some cranes. You hire operators and rent them out. People use them, usually on construction sites, and the crane owner hopes to make money.

There you go. No need to thank me.

Not sure how to take your post. Are you being funny, sarcastic, or just plain mean? I didn't take the OPs comment to mean that the operator owned a crane business, I thought maybe if you docked at Silver Sands you could have your own crane in your berth and I had never heard of it.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by tis

Not sure how to take your post. Are you being funny, sarcastic, or just plain mean? I didn't take the OPs comment to mean that the operator owned a crane business, I thought maybe if you docked at Silver Sands you could have your own crane in your berth and I had never heard of it.

The crane was rented from Astro Crane a company out of Boxborough, MA. The boat is being taken out of the water this morning at 10 AM. For the present time it will be left on blocks and stands at Silver Sands Marina.

The travel lift at Silver Sands is not big enough to lift the SeaRay. The boat weighs about 20,000 pounds more than the Silver Sands travel lift can pick up.

This location has been the site of several of the launches for the largest boats on the lake. Each time, a large capacity crane has been brought in.

[ApS]

I just realized this morning that I had a front seat to this "accident"!

That explains all the boat traffic while I was having an early lunch. There may have been a second barge docked there at the time.

One excavator barge left this morning at 7:30AM.

The crash took place at a prominent point of shoreline we've always called Camp Keewaydin--after the road that services the area.

The wrecked boat is one I've seen docking a number of times. The operator's handling skills are amazing. He docks that boat as if it had side-thrusters!

The HackerCraft may be totalled, although both new and ancient examples range from $35,000 to $120,000+. These boats have been manufactured--and raced--since the roaring Twenties.

http://www.classicboat.com/antique-b...mmuter-27k.htm
(Notice the removed shoes of all aboard flopped in the center: only bare feet allowed!)

As for the "driver" of the offending boat, I think he tripped on a boat cushion, hit his head on the throttle, crashed, recalled the fatal skiing accident of Liam Neesom's wife (head injury), phoned for help, was rushed to shore nearby, then feeling better, and no worse for wear, later declined further assistance from friends.

Would it be schadenfreude if the Hacker Craft belonged to him?

[ishoot308]

This is where the accident took place....

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by ApS

The HackerCraft may be totalled, although both new and ancient examples range from $35,000 to $120,000+.

APS;

Don't you think that Hackercraft is worth a heck of a lot more than that?? I see one "original" on boat trader going for $670,000.00!! This one involved in the accident is probably not an early original but still the value has to be much higher...

I personally would much rather have the Hackercraft than the Searay!!

Dan

[Woodsy]

ishoot...

Word on the FB fb pages is that the woody was a replica, not an original. Not that is any consolation given the large amount of damage.

It will be interesting to see this all play out...

Woodsy

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

ishoot...

Word on the FB fb pages is that the woody was a replica, not an original. Not that is any consolation given the large amount of damage.

It will be interesting to see this all play out...

Woodsy

I figured it was a replica but it is still made by Hackercraft correct?...they are still making boats and I see the Hackercraft sticker and logo on the side...so while it is a replica design of a old woody, it's still a Hackercraft....

https://hackerboat.com/boat_builder/...runabout/front

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

APS;

Don't you think that Hackercraft is worth a heck of a lot more than that?? I see one "original" on boat trader going for $670,000.00!! This one involved in the accident is probably not an early original but still the value has to be much higher...

I personally would much rather have the Hackercraft than the Searay!!

Dan

If I had to guess that's an early 90's Hacker. Still original and still very costly, probably close to $350-400k value. Wooden boats are still being made by certain manufacturers but often construed to be "antique".

[Cobaltdeadhead]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

Wealthy = bad?


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No

I'm simply implying that in the American court system, those with the means to afford high priced attorneys tend to receive lesser sentences than those that cannot afford such representation.

It shouldn't be that way. This jerk should receive the same sentence as someone else committing similar crimes who doesn't have those means and requires a public defender.

[trashman]

Total jerks. I bet when they hit this boat they didnt stick around to even make sure noone else was on or around that woody. Just concerned about themselves. That Sea Ray will be sold and they will be the same old jerks on some other boat next summer. Thank God noone got hurt.

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by trashman

Total jerks. I bet when they hit this boat they didnt stick around to even make sure noone else was on or around that woody. Just concerned about themselves. That Sea Ray will be sold and they will be the same old jerks on some other boat next summer. Thank God noone got hurt.

All the names you all are calling these clowns are far too generous. I for one, lack words.

[chachee52]

Boat is being towed back to MP headquarters right now. MP right there with them

[LIforrelaxin]

Its going to be interesting to see how this one unfolds... Of course I also wonder just how many details we are going to get as the investigation goes on.....

They MP have all the information they need to get this figured out, we all just need to allow that to happen.......

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Its going to be interesting to see how this one unfolds... Of course I also wonder just how many details we are going to get as the investigation goes on.....

They MP have all the information they need to get this figured out, we all just need to allow that to happen.......

We will probably get as much information as the guy who hit nipple rock! Those names were never released to the public!….makes you wonder why?….

Dan

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

We will probably get as much information as the guy who hit nipple rock! Those names were never released to the public!….makes you wonder why?….

Dan

The guy who hit a rock just hit a rock. Destroying somebody else's boat and fleeing may be criminal. If not criminal, it's at least subject to a civil lawsuit. Either way leaves a public record

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

The guy who hit a rock just hit a rock. Destroying somebody else's boat and fleeing may be criminal. If not criminal, it's at least subject to a civil lawsuit. Either way leaves a public record

The guy just didn’t “hit a rock”….he and his passenger were both ejected into the water while his boat went dangerously around in circles before eventually hitting the back end of a marine patrol boat and nearly killed two officers while dragging them under the overturned and capsized RIB…..Yet no names released?…really?? Sorry but something stinks to high heaven on that one!

Dan

[chachee52]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

The guy just didn’t “hit a rock”….he and his passenger were both ejected into the water while his boat went dangerously around in circles before eventually hitting the back end of a marine patrol boat and nearly killed two officers while dragging them under the overturned and capsized RIB…..Yet no names released?…really?? Sorry but something stinks to high heaven on that one!

Dan

I think what they are trying to say is the guy that hit Nipple rock might not have had any charges because no significant laws were broken, so no names would have been made public. Might have been an unfortunate accident.

[John Mercier]

I have seen this in every recreation.
Complaints about the loss of freedom (speed on Winni and such), but no legislator around the lake seeking to impose higher fines and loss of privilege.

I have to say, it is our fault. We simply allow it to go on day after day without holding the Legislature's feet to the fire.

Instead we make broad restrictions that only punish those that act in good faith.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

The guy just didn’t “hit a rock”….he and his passenger were both ejected into the water while his boat went dangerously around in circles before eventually hitting the back end of a marine patrol boat and nearly killed two officers while dragging them under the overturned and capsized RIB…..Yet no names released?…really?? Sorry but something stinks to high heaven on that one!

Dan

Originally Posted by chachee52

I think what they are trying to say is the guy that hit Nipple rock might not have had any charges because no significant laws were broken, so no names would have been made public. Might have been an unfortunate accident.

Yes and yes. I agree with Dan's implication--I should not be flippant about the danger to the officers. But as chachee says--the Nipple Rock incident does not appear to be a crime. This latest incident does. So we should expect names here

[bman60]

Hope they will use his cell phone data to prove he was there.


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[Woodsy]

Unfortunately it will be almost impossible to prove impairment or who was driving... Although there may be some charges forthcoming from the investigation.

The silver lining of this accident is that thankfully nobody was killed and most likely there is plenty of liability insurance on that 50' SeaRay to cover both the dock rebuild and the old woody rebuild.

Woodsy

[mofn]

An owner has so lovingly cared for such an old wooden craft, and have it wrecked by a window licker on HIS dock!
Anybody that has similar stories about this oxygen thief like codeman671posted up, I’m sure the D.A. will appreciate the help! Let’s get this guy (and the 1997 Well Craft… accessory after the fact) buried in lawyer fees before a trail is even held from his past practices.

[duocat]

Same boat Grounded on different rocks September 2021

[Slickcraft]

A bit of rotate

That driver is a danger to the lake.

[TiltonBB]

The boat is currently at Silver Sands Marina with two Marine Patrol Officers standing by. It may be taken out of the water by crane in the next couple of days.

You really have to over achieve to qualify for two rows of Police tape!

[thinkxingu]

In all seriousness, almost all people go their whole (boating) lives without doing what this guy did...TWICE.

I hope there are serious consequences for everyone involved.

Also, were I him, I'd be thanking whatever god he believes in that he doesn't have blood on his hands.

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[thinkxingu]

A note that someone posted aerial pics and a bit more detail about the accident on the iBoat Facebook page.

Here's the link, for anyone interested: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1423...ibextid=Nif5oz

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[The Real BigGuy]

I was at a boat repair shop near Exeter and a person who works their, and knew I kept my boat on Winni, brought the accident up unsolicited. He add that a rumor is circulating that the owner has said that the boat was stolen by a bunch of kids. I wonder???????


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[WinterHarborGuy]

There is a picture on social media of the escape boat sitting in the water by the crash...and it's full of middle aged people, not any kids that I could see.

[WinterHarborGuy]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

I was at a boat repair shop near Exeter and a person who works their, and knew I kept my boat on Winni, brought the accident up unsolicited. He add that a rumor is circulating that the owner has said that the boat was stolen by a bunch of kids. I wonder???????


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The social media post I mention “alleges” that the crew was seen in at a watering hole on the other side of the lake at 8. If he or “they” are adding (allegedly) false reporting of a crime to the charges, have at it.

They have 2 boats (both identified), and at least “some” pictures from Winter Harbor after the crash. I gather from that social media post, that there are eyewitness reports from this bar.

[Cobaltdeadhead]

What is amazing to me is not one person on that Sea Ray has come forward. If my own son did something that dumb and criminal while I was on his boat, I'd turn him in.

Crap morals and values with every one of those people

[lagoon]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

What is amazing to me is not one person on that Sea Ray has come forward. If my own son did something that dumb and criminal while I was on his boat, I'd turn him in.

Crap morals and values with every one of those people

I looked at the picture of the boat from a [post that was taken a few years back and it seems to be some of the same folks to me. I really doubt the kids took this boat but, that's his story and I bet he sticks to it.

[Poor Richard]

What are the chances that SeaRay lives on Mammoth Rd in Windham?

Looks strikingly similar to a boat I've seen on stands in a side yard during the off season

[Cobaltdeadhead]

Originally Posted by Poor Richard

What are the chances that SeaRay lives on Mammoth Rd in Windham?

Looks strikingly similar to a boat I've seen on stands in a side yard during the off season

I kinda doubt that boat is moved anywhere but near shore on Winnipesaukee. It would be huge money to move a boat that size to Windham.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

The Searay is registered out of Windham and the other one, the escape boat, is registered out of Pelham according to the news.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

I was at a boat repair shop near Exeter and a person who works their, and knew I kept my boat on Winni, brought the accident up unsolicited. He add that a rumor is circulating that the owner has said that the boat was stolen by a bunch of kids. I wonder???????


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I think that would make the boat coming to their aid... accessory to grand theft.
Would it really be worth holding back reporting to change a misdemeanor into a felony?

I've seen it done... but usually by a single individual acting really stupid.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

I was at a boat repair shop near Exeter and a person who works their, and knew I kept my boat on Winni, brought the accident up unsolicited. He add that a rumor is circulating that the owner has said that the boat was stolen by a bunch of kids. I wonder???????


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The crew trying to escape certainly didn't look like a bunch of kids...In fact one of them looks like the guy in my picture previously taken in Meredith a few years ago.

I doubt they will get away with that story. I'd be pretty surprised to see a 50' Sea Ray piloted at night by a bunch of kids make it even that far.

I think we all know what happened here... A bunch of drunks being drunks. This guy rides around like he owns the lake and is untouchable. Hopefully he gets nailed hard on this one. People like this have no place on Winnipesaukee. He will kill someone if he keeps it up.

There is a good chance that boat is Coast Guard registered being of that size. With the HIN anyone can look it up on the CG site if it is CG registered.

[TiltonBB]

A couple of delays but the lifting process has begun.

[TheTimeTraveler]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

A couple of delays but the lifting process has begun.

This is good news that the boat is being removed from the water. The problem is that the owner may go out and either rent or buy another boat instead.....

[TiltonBB]

OOPS! On land and it may be there for a while.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

OOPS! On land and it may be there for a while.

So we see the one mangled prop what did the other one look like?
I also wonder what the keel looked like.....

Hummm I wonder if it will still be at the Marina, this weekend I will have to take a ride buy and see what can be viewed...

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

So we see the one mangled prop what did the other one look like?
I also wonder what the keel looked like.....

Hummm I wonder if it will still be at the Marina, this weekend I will have to take a ride buy and see what can be viewed...

The other prop is damaged but not nearly as bad. The rudder is bent and the boat is leaking slightly. Nothing the bilge pump couldn't keep up with when it was in the water. There is some keel damage but not as much as you would expect.

I am pretty sure the chrome piece and the cloth tangled in the prop are from the boat that got run over.

[tis]

We saw the Hackercraft today.

[TheTimeTraveler]

The subject boat may be out longer than one thinks if it is needed in case this accident situation goes to a trial (i.e. evidence).

In any event, I don't think it will be back in the lake in 2023.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

APS;Don't you think that Hackercraft is worth a heck of a lot more than that?? I see one "original" on boat trader going for $670,000.00!! This one involved in the accident is probably not an early original but still the value has to be much higher...I personally would much rather have the Hackercraft than the Searay!!
Dan

Those figures came from auction sites. (and included a +).

Other figures can include "provenance". (Serial number 1000, once owned by Vanna White, Janis Joplin, Shah of Iran, etc...)

The late Janis Joplin's 1964 Porsche 356C sold for $1,740, 000 eight years ago. (About 13 times today's evaluations).
https://money.cnn.com/2015/12/10/lux...ion/index.html

(My personal 1964 Porsche 356C awaits restoration. )

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

The subject boat may be out longer than one thinks if it is needed in case this accident situation goes to a trial (i.e. evidence).

In any event, I don't think it will be back in the lake in 2023.

For the rest of the summer, a man of his means can't buy some other gargantuan powerboat to endanger Lake Winnipesaukee's boats and docks? (And cause the Lake's third hit-and-run?).

[tis]

Originally Posted by ApS

For the rest of the summer, a man of his means can't buy some other gargantuan powerboat to endanger Lake Winnipesaukee's boats and docks? (And cause the Lake's third hit-and-run?).

I can't imagine he will be using any boat for a while if for not more than a hit and run charge. They may even suspend his driver's license.

[codeman671]

Word on the street is that the owner of the 50 left the state and is avoiding the police. It wasn’t too hard to figure out who these guys were.
Someone mentioned a company name owned by one of them, from there it was easy to track down. One of the neighbors saw the State
Police at his home on Blackey Cove and was asked if he had been seen. Probably fled that same night.

I have a feeling that Silver Sands, Winter Harbor and Blackey Cove will be getting a lot of curious onlookers this weekend.

[fatlazyless]

In New Hampshire the open container law concerning alcoholic adult beverages in a motor vehicle does not include water vessels or a boat. Boating and drinking an adult beverage is legal. What's not legal is boating with a blood alcohol level higher than "0.08 higher by blood, breath or urine. Or between .03 and .08 along with other evidence."



So it is legal to be driving a motorboat, or paddling a canoe with an alcoholic beverage in one hand and the steering wheel or canoe paddle in the other hand, as long as your blood alcohol level is lower than 0.08, or eight percent.

[chaseisland]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

In New Hampshire the open container law concerning alcoholic adult beverages in a motor vehicle does not include water vessels or a boat. Boating and drinking an adult beverage is legal. What's not legal is boating with a blood alcohol level higher than "0.08 higher by blood, breath or urine. Or between .03 and .08 along with other evidence."



So it is legal to be driving a motorboat, or paddling a canoe with an alcoholic beverage in one hand and the steering wheel or canoe paddle in the other hand, as long as your blood alcohol level is lower than 0.08, or eight percent.

.08 means .08 grams of alcohol per 100 milliliters of blood, which is far from 8%.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

In New Hampshire the open container law concerning alcoholic adult beverages in a motor vehicle does not include water vessels or a boat. Boating and drinking an adult beverage is legal. What's not legal is boating with a blood alcohol level higher than "0.08 higher by blood, breath or urine. Or between .03 and .08 along with other evidence."



So it is legal to be driving a motorboat, or paddling a canoe with an alcoholic beverage in one hand and the steering wheel or canoe paddle in the other hand, as long as your blood alcohol level is lower than 0.08, or eight percent.

Not a doc, but i don't think you can possibly hit 8% unless maybe while being embalmed.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by ITD

Not a doc, but i don't think you can possibly hit 8% unless maybe while being embalmed.

It is confusing and illogical but a blood alcohol of .08 does really mean .08% as the term is used medicolegally.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

It is confusing and illogical but a blood alcohol of .08 does really mean .08% as the term is used medicolegally.

Yup, but .08% is not 8%.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by codeman671

There is a good chance that boat is Coast Guard registered being of that size. With the HIN anyone can look it up on the CG site if it is CG registered.

It's probably not CG documented because it has state registration numbers/letters which are not necessary on a documented vessel. Also, a documented vessel is required to have the vessel name and hailing port displayed and I saw no evidence of that in any of the photos.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Dave R

It's probably not CG documented because it has state registration numbers/letters which are not necessary on a documented vessel. Also, a documented vessel is required to have the vessel name and hailing port displayed and I saw no evidence of that in any of the photos.

I have owned CG documented boats before but still always registered in NH. Can’t say that I have ever see a boat on the lake that should have bow numbers and didn’t. It screams pull me over.

My lienholder required it on my Rinker 320EC (which coincidently was sold to a friend of the clown involved in this). I didn’t bother to put the name on it, it was never leaving the lake while I owned it and no CG here to ask questions. Wasn’t opposed to it, just never got to it. It mainly stayed tied up at our dock being used as sleeping quarters as our camp build was in the planning stages.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by codeman671

I have owned CG documented boats before but still always registered in NH. Can’t say that I have ever see a boat on the lake that should have bow numbers and didn’t. It screams pull me over.

My lienholder required it on my Rinker 320EC (which coincidently was sold to a friend of the clown involved in this). I didn’t bother to put the name on it, it was never leaving the lake while I owned it and no CG here to ask questions. Wasn’t opposed to it, just never got to it. It mainly stayed tied up at our dock being used as sleeping quarters as our camp build was in the planning stages.

I register my documented boat in NH, but I only put the stickers on, no bow numbers/letters. I'm not 100% certain I even need to register it in any state, but I do, just in case. I've been boarded by the CG and they have no issue with any of this. State MP has never stopped me, so I'm not sure how they feel.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I register my documented boat in NH, but I only put the stickers on, no bow numbers/letters. I'm not 100% certain I even need to register it in any state, but I do, just in case. I've been boarded by the CG and they have no issue with any of this. State MP has never stopped me, so I'm not sure how they feel.

In every major waterfront state I am aware of you are required to register a USCG documented boat with the state. You are also prohibited from displayed state reg "bow" numbers on a documented boat. Essentially, it is an either/or approach to how you register and title the vessel. The state really only cares about getting their taxes, so as long as you're displaying your appropriately colored registration sticker for the state I can't imagine any state agency caring about the bow numbers.

There would be no real benefit to having a documented boat on an inland lake that has no USCG presence. Would just add more annual registration hassle to renew the USCG docs, granted minor hassle, but still.

[garysanfran]

I owned a 34' sailboat in San Francisco for 15 yrs. It was documented and I never had to do any registration with the state of CA. The only display required was the name of the vessel on the stern with letters of a certain size.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

In every major waterfront state I am aware of you are required to register a USCG documented boat with the state. You are also prohibited from displayed state reg "bow" numbers on a documented boat. Essentially, it is an either/or approach to how you register and title the vessel. The state really only cares about getting their taxes, so as long as you're displaying your appropriately colored registration sticker for the state I can't imagine any state agency caring about the bow numbers.

There would be no real benefit to having a documented boat on an inland lake that has no USCG presence. Would just add more annual registration hassle to renew the USCG docs, granted minor hassle, but still.

NH is not a title state, so being documented is the equivalent of a title. Small boats are not eligible to be documented, but for larger boats (5 net tons or greater) that may move from state to state, or to other countries, documentation is an advantage at time of sale, or for those who boat in NH in the summer and go south in the winter. If your boat is 5 net tons or less, this discusssion probably does not apply.

[BroadHopper]

Looks like Rep. Pilliod, the major sponsor of the speed limit law, was right. 'Sea-Rays belong in the seas!' Too bad he didn't live to see this. Next on his agenda was to limit the size and HP of privately owned boats.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Next on his agenda was to limit the size and HP of privately owned boats.

Sour grapes? That is simply not true. This was never on his "agenda". Dr. Pilliod was a sincere, hard working and honest man. Why do you feel the need to bring the speed limit debate into this thread and to smear this deceased individual? And fortunately for Dr. Pilliod's legacy, the Maine Patrol is fully on board in support of the need for a speed limit on Winni. Below is Lt. Wade's testimony from last April 2023 in support of the current law which was supported with an almost unheard of 18:0 vote in the R. R. & D. Committee and with hundreds of letters in support of the speed limit and only a handful opposing the current law.

April 17, 2023


Representative Andrew Renzullo
Chairman, House Resource, Recreation and Development



Chairman Renzullo,

I am writing to request my testimony to the House Transportation Committee on March 8, 2023, in reference to HB 448, a bill relative to Lake Winnipesaukee speed limitations, be entered into the record. Below is the testimony I gave in front of the Committee that day. Thank you for your consideration.


Good afternoon, I am Lieutenant Dennis Wade, Commander of the NH State Police Marine Patrol. I am here representing the Department of Safety, Division of State Police, and to testify against House Bill 448.

Lake Winnipesaukee is one of about 30 lakes in New Hampshire where a per se speed limit exists. The speed limit on most of these other 30 lakes is 10mph. With just a few being above that. Winnipesaukee currently has a speed limit of 45mph from one-half hour before sunrise to one-half hour after sunset, basically daytime. And 30 mph at night. These speed limits are not absolute, as they are allowed only where no other hazard exists that requires a lower speed. These hazards include, but are not limited to, other boat traffic, weather, waves, sun glare, swimmers, and water debris. Other than the per se speed laws, the law requires operators to drive in a way that they do not put the lives and safety of others at risk or that they do not drive in a careless or negligent manner. The Department of Safety believes that 65mph will put the safety of the public at risk.

Driving a boat at 65mph can be dangerous. A boat moving at 45mph is traveling at 66 feet /sec., where a boat moving at 65mph is traveling at 95.5 feet/sec. Almost 30 more feet per second. This 30 feet could determine the time needed for a driver to avoid a crash. The average perception & reaction time for a person is approximately 1.5 seconds. This is ‘perception and reaction’ time for a driver who is actively paying attention. In those 1.5 seconds, a boat traveling at 45mph will travel 99 feet. At 65mph, a boat will travel 142 feet. Again, this is reaction time. Then the driver’s action must take place to avoid whatever hazard exists. Unlike motor vehicles, boats do not have brakes, requiring additional stopping time and distance on the water. An operator can only throttle back and maybe even put the boat into reverse. Still, this will not stop a boat quickly and the steerage of a boat does not operate the same when in neutral.

Lake Winnipesaukee is used for many different recreational activities, including water skiing, swimming, canoeing/kayaking, fishing, sailing, motor boating, and many more. There needs to be a balance in the use by all these recreationalists, to include motorboats. Although there is an area defined by this law where the 65 mph speed limit would be allowed, that area will be hard to distinguish. There are no defined edges in the water like you have on roads. No sidewalks, yellow and white lines, no travel lanes, and no traffic control devices. Add in that not everyone on the lake knows the lake, has been there before, and will not be familiar with the boundaries discerned by this law, this can make for a dangerous mix.

Having the area defined through written law, will not be the same as having a clearly defined area that a boater can understand. When driving a car, the road is defined. You know when you turn onto and off a road, you have curbs and intersections. You also have speed limits signs and traffic control devices, caution signs, and yield signs. This will not be the case on Lake Winnipesaukee should this bill pass. How will a boater know they are in a 65 mph zone. Not necessarily because they plan on going that fast, but so they can be more cautious of other boaters that might. There are kids and other novice boaters who boat on the lake. Are they going to know where they are and what hazards to look for? In order to sign this area so all users knew that this was a 65mph zone, it would take an unknown number of buoys to be placed, at an unknown cost. Buoys in unexpected places can pose a safety hazard. We do not want to create additional hazards, especially in an area that does not have environmental obstructions. This would also take away from the beauty of this lake.

Two other items to consider. Boats do not have seatbelts. Nothing to keep a passenger in the boat should the driver have to throttle back at 65 mph to neutral, or should it get hit by another boat or run aground. There are no airbags, no roof. Nothing from protecting passengers from being ejected should a dangerous situation present itself.

And, think of the interstate. We do not allow bicycles and pedestrians on the interstate because of the speed limit. Having a boat going 65 mph near someone canoeing, kayaking, or sailing, can be a recipe for disaster. And although these motorboats have just as much a right to use the lake, again, there needs to be a balance.

In summary, the Department of Safety does not recommend passing this legislation. It creates an enhanced concern for the safety of all users in this area, will cause confusion among boaters, especially those who are unfamiliar with the lake, and as presented, does not allow for proper enforcement of this zone based on the description of the area.



Respectfully,



Lieutenant Dennis Wade
NH State Police – Marine Patrol

[Major]

Broad wasn't disparaging Dr. Pilliod, he was making a joke! Dr. Pilliod was a very nice man. He was my first doctor when I moved to NH in 1977. To the best of my knowledge, he did not own a power boat (maybe a sailboat). He lived in Belmont, but may have owned a boat at a marina or club.

Which leads me to my second point, we have people in Concord who have never owned a boat making rules because they feel good. Someone, like Lt. Wade, with a semblance of authority states that the world would be a much safer place if only we had (and now enforced) a speed limit on the lake. While this feels good, it has little or no effect.

This has been litigated in past threads. With perhaps a few exceptions (only one that I can think of), over the past 40 or so years, no accidents have been caused by speed. The most recent spate of accidents have been caused by idiocy and perhaps alcohol. Speed has never been (and certainly now won't be) a safety issue on our lake.

Often, we create laws and rules to replace common sense. The times I have traveled fast on the lake, we were abundantly safe. In the broads, or down a long stretch like Alton Bay, with few boats in sight. We wouldn't have done it if the broads or the bays were full of boats like on Saturday afternoons, or along the shore where people swim, kayak and canoe. In both instances, it would be reckless to operate a boat at a high speed.

Anyway, it's a moot point. It's the law, but they really don't enforce it. I see wave runners and boats consistently going over 45 mph.

[codeman671]

Not sure we need to go down the speed limit rabbit hole again...A Sea Ray 500 can run approximately 35 knots WOT from what I saw on a test report from Boattest.

The guy was drunk and not paying attention. I'd say he probably wasn't going overly fast otherwise the damage would have been more severe, as well as the increased likelihood of passenger injuries.

Like it or not, he probably made the right choice for himself by disappearing that night. I am no expert but think that aggravated DWI along with a slew of other charges would carry a higher penalty than leaving the scene and failure to report the accident. Insurance will kick in and make restitution, and other than being the most hated guy on the lake presently he will be free to do this again.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by codeman671

and other than being the most hated guy on the lake presently he will be free to do this again.

And that's the problem!

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Not sure we need to go down the speed limit rabbit hole again...A Sea Ray 500 can run approximately 35 knots WOT from what I saw on a test report from Boattest.

The guy was drunk and not paying attention. I'd say he probably wasn't going overly fast otherwise the damage would have been more severe, as well as the increased likelihood of passenger injuries.

Like it or not, he probably made the right choice for himself by disappearing that night. I am no expert but think that aggravated DWI along with a slew of other charges would carry a higher penalty than leaving the scene and failure to report the accident. Insurance will kick in and make restitution, and other than being the most hated guy on the lake presently he will be free to do this again.

I agree... IMHO, the weak link will be the people who came and drove them off into the night. They will be looking at an aiding and abetting charge that carries a far harsher penalty. They will be the ones to flip and put him in the driver's seat.

Woodsy

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Like it or not, he probably made the right choice for himself by disappearing that night. I am no expert but think that aggravated DWI along with a slew of other charges would carry a higher penalty than leaving the scene and failure to report the accident.

My guess would be that the guy knew this from past experience.... If information comes out, I wouldn't be surprised to find a long rap sheet centered around doing stupid stuff when drunk.....

With that said, speed got mentioned in this thread also..... speed wasn't the problem in this accident... momentum and inertia however played a very integral role in all of this....

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

My guess would be that the guy knew this from past experience.... If information comes out, I wouldn't be surprised to find a long rap sheet centered around doing stupid stuff when drunk.....

With that said, speed got mentioned in this thread also..... speed wasn't the problem in this accident... momentum and inertia however played a very integral role in all of this....

The main perp has a second degree assault/serious bodily injury from 2018. And another close family member has a past impersonating a police officer...And their diocesed father was convicted in a multi state stolen truck ring. I'd say they are a bunch of scoundrels.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

My guess would be that the guy knew this from past experience.... If information comes out, I wouldn't be surprised to find a long rap sheet centered around doing stupid stuff when drunk.....

With that said, speed got mentioned in this thread also..... speed wasn't the problem in this accident... momentum and inertia however played a very integral role in all of this....

Moment is mass times velocity (directional speed); so for momentum to be a problem, then the speed was a variable.

If the operator was intoxicated or distracted... moving at 5 mpH instead of 10 mph would allow twice the time to react before the distance was closed.
If the operator was fully alert, 5 mph instead of 10 mph would still allow twice the time to react before the distance was closed.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Moment is mass times velocity (directional speed); so for momentum to be a problem, then the speed was a variable.

If the operator was intoxicated or distracted... moving at 5 mpH instead of 10 mph would allow twice the time to react before the distance was closed.
If the operator was fully alert, 5 mph instead of 10 mph would still allow twice the time to react before the distance was closed.

The Searay weighs in at approx 35,000 lbs. If it was traveling @ 10MPH, the force at impact was 175 US ton-mph... I am surprised the damage wasn't worse! (If I did the math right)

Woodsy

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

The Searay weighs in at approx 35,000 lbs. If it was traveling @ 10MPH, the force at impact was 175 US ton-mph... I am surprised the damage wasn't worse! (If I did the math right)

Woodsy

Even if the math is right... imagine how out of wack he had to be to hit it at 5mph. Obviously reversing engines wouldn't stop it on a dime... but that would make this captain dangerous at any speed. We wouldn't even be able to allow him to paddle a canoe without fear of something bad happening.

[sunset on the dock]

Ok folks, two plus months since the accident and I'm getting impatient How much longer do we wait for answers and follow up consequences for this crash in Winter Harbor? And it would appear that this is not the family's first brush with the law.

Do they get off scott free? Will insurance cover the damages given the hit and run circumstances?

[pjard]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Moment is mass times velocity (directional speed); so for momentum to be a problem, then the speed was a variable.

If the operator was intoxicated or distracted... moving at 5 mpH instead of 10 mph would allow twice the time to react before the distance was closed.
If the operator was fully alert, 5 mph instead of 10 mph would still allow twice the time to react before the distance was closed.

So who is the guy that owned the boat? Many seem to know. What's his story?

[Cobaltdeadhead]

Originally Posted by pjard

So who is the guy that owned the boat? Many seem to know. What's his story?

Only sharing because it will be public information anyway. Roger Ploof is the owner of the boat.

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Not sure we need to go down the speed limit rabbit hole again...A Sea Ray 500 can run approximately 35 knots WOT from what I saw on a test report from Boattest.

The guy was drunk and not paying attention. I'd say he probably wasn't going overly fast otherwise the damage would have been more severe, as well as the increased likelihood of passenger injuries.

Like it or not, he probably made the right choice for himself by disappearing that night. I am no expert but think that aggravated DWI along with a slew of other charges would carry a higher penalty than leaving the scene and failure to report the accident. Insurance will kick in and make restitution, and other than being the most hated guy on the lake presently he will be free to do this again.

Perhaps that upside down paradigm should change?

[John Mercier]

Changing the paradigm would take a dramatic shift in governance...

[ApS]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Not sure we need to go down the speed limit rabbit hole again...A Sea Ray 500 can run approximately 35 knots WOT from what I saw on a test report from Boattest. The guy was drunk and not paying attention. I'd say he probably wasn't going overly fast otherwise the damage would have been more severe, as well as the increased likelihood of passenger injuries. Like it or not, he probably made the right choice for himself by disappearing that night. I am no expert but think that aggravated DWI along with a slew of other charges would carry a higher penalty than leaving the scene and failure to report the accident. Insurance will kick in and make restitution, and other than being the most hated guy on the lake presently he will be free to do this again.

Explain why metal trim from the HackerCraft's deck are tangled in the Searay's prop. (And fabric--possibly the remains of PFDs from the HackerCraft).

I see it as the Searay launching itself off the permanent piling dock and shredding the Hackercraft on its way down. (Having angled itself off the keel to spare the other prop from equally severe damage: The HackerCraft acting like a floating cushion).

Subtracting 150' legal distance from each shore (to include boulders, wooden rafts, and that "permanent" bright red warning float), that "pinch-point" at Keewaydin Point is very tight for a 17-ton vessel to be traveling at such an inhumane speed--made even worse when two such craft are passing each other.