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Old 08-29-2018, 03:33 PM   #1
TownieRinker27
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Default Grey cloud under the water at Ragged. Rock snot?

Hi all,

I was anchored on the western edge of Ragged yesterday and in an effort to escape the oppressive heat, I decided to take a plunge.

When I was choosing my "landing spot", I noticed a grey cloud floating just above bottom with an amorphous shape. It may have been attached to the bottom somehow, but since it looked repulsive, I avoided it. I should have taken a picture, but didn't.

My question, maybe naive, but was is "rock snot" (didymo)?
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Old 08-29-2018, 05:37 PM   #2
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Sometimes frogs lay egg masses that resemble this although I've not seen frogs at Ragged. Doesn't mean they're not around. Usually the frog eggs are filled with little black dots (pollywogs when they hatch)
Perhaps some other finny creature has spawned as well?
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Old 08-29-2018, 05:44 PM   #3
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The algae has suddenly appeared too. It sounds like it might be that.
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Old 08-30-2018, 04:37 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by TownieRinker27 View Post
Hi all, I was anchored on the western edge of Ragged yesterday and in an effort to escape the oppressive heat, I decided to take a plunge. When I was choosing my "landing spot", I noticed a grey cloud floating just above bottom with an amorphous shape. It may have been attached to the bottom somehow, but since it looked repulsive, I avoided it. I should have taken a picture, but didn't.

My question, maybe naive, but was it "rock snot" (didymo)?
Most likely the basketball-size, "tumbleweed-type" shapes of green algae that have appeared in our quiet waters—since about 1994. In one especially explosive year, we (and one neighbor) had our water intake stopped-up by an algae cloud. No clouds appear in the below photo: we draw from deeper water now, but algae has still taken up residence!



For this 2018 season, these clouds first started appearing in Winter Harbor in early July. It's probably the same algae that starts growing high on the long stalks of native lake plants.

I suspect that oversized-boat wakes are pulling in nutrients from degrading shorelines and "feeding" the algae.

More supporting data from member shore things:
https://winnipesaukee.com/forums/sho...06&postcount=9

>
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Old 08-30-2018, 04:54 AM   #5
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It is good. It eats the leaves and debris in the lake. I love watching it eat the patches and see the sand appear where the debris was.
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Old 08-30-2018, 07:35 AM   #6
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Ahh...algae! Learned something new!
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Old 08-30-2018, 08:39 AM   #7
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You know, Hill, the masses ( as you said) of frogs eggs look very much like this. This just covers a much bigger area. Also you see the frogs eggs in the spring and this comes this time of year.
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Old 08-31-2018, 04:02 PM   #8
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http://www.nh1.com/news/new-hampshir...e-for-swimmers

Maybe this is not our usual algae? This makes me nervous!!
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Old 08-31-2018, 05:07 PM   #9
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It is good. It eats the leaves and debris in the lake. I love watching it eat the patches and see the sand appear where the debris was.
Those algae clouds are supported by runoff from shore and, using photosynthesis, "just grows". It is wave action that is clearing the leaves, the debris and the algae. As long as there is sunlight filtering in, algae clouds appear in somewhat deeper water where there is no debris—fifteen-twenty feet? Maybe member Diver1111 can advise.

If my neighbor's boys come up for the holiday weekend, I'll ask for pictures. Those youngsters are reassuringly interested in lakes' fauna and flora.

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http://www.nh1.com/news/new-hampshir...e-for-swimmers
Maybe this is not our usual algae? This makes me nervous!!


Relax.

That picture is a concentration of the Blue-Green Gloeotrichia—maybe collected from a fine-mesh fish net.

It's visible, and everywhere in the lake (down to about three feet), although not that concentrated!

Wikipedia... :

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Freshwater Cyanobacteria. In North America Gloeoitrichia appears unexpectedly in many remote oligotrophic lakes during late summer and fall. It is also reported from several remote and pristine lakes in the undisturbed boreal forest watershed.Recently Gloeoitrichia was also found in 26 of 27 ‘low nutrient’ lakes in New England USA (Carey et al. 2012).

Likely the colonies develop in the bottom waters where sediment mineralization releases a portion of its phosphate, then adjust their buoyancy with displacement of bacterioplasm by elongating gas vesicles and rise to the surface where they can be distributed horizontally by wind-driven water currents. Blooms form in mid to late summer due to this ‘recruitment’ from the sediments, as the benthic colonies rise relatively in synchrony, measured in inverted funnel traps at up to 104 colonies m-2 day-1 in Lake Sunapee, NH USA (Carey et al. 2014).

Evidence that Gloeoitrichia is meroplanktonic, spending part or most of the year in sediments, comes from mesocosm growth experiments at Lake Erken. While open-water (pelagic) colonies were increasing during July 2000 – 2001, colonies in mesocosms (41 L and 300 L volume) were decreasing, even with additions of various combinations of nutrients (exception: addition of N, P and Fe) (Karlsson-Elfgren et al. 2005). The conclusion is that P-rich sediments enable colony growth and that increasing colony buoyancy during July brings them into the pelagic zone

Gloeoitrichia is also reported from some remote nutrient rich lakes surrounded by paddy field in West Bengal of India. Though this newly found paper which states about the presence of them in Bengal is not widely verified
In other words, Gloeotrichia rise as a cloud from the bottom of certain clear lakes, and spend some time at the surface. (That's what we're seeing). The presence of phosphorus (P-rich sediments) is needed for growth, and supplied by shorefront erosion and runoff.

Tubers, skiers, wakeboarders, and especially wake-surfers are continuing to use Winter Harbor as usual.

Maybe spread the word?

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Old 08-31-2018, 05:18 PM   #10
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So are you saying we shouldn't be worried, APS?
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Old 08-31-2018, 06:02 PM   #11
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So are you saying we shouldn't be worried, APS?
The media pictured a very dense collection to fill a page of "print".

This "invasion" has been going-on for decades: it's been all over The Broads since July.

"Ask any Sailor".
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Old 09-01-2018, 07:28 AM   #12
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Freshwater Cyanobacteria. In North America Gloeoitrichia appears unexpectedly in many remote oligotrophic lakes during late summer and fall. It is also reported from several remote and pristine lakes in the undisturbed boreal forest watershed. Recently Gloeoitrichia was also found in 26 of 27 ‘low nutrient’ lakes in New England USA (Carey et al. 2012).

I'm left a bit confused here, not that I typically believe anything published on Wikipedia - but since we are going to agree that what is there is factually correct, it seems these things occur naturally in "remote and pristine" lakes.

So are we to believe that this actually can occur in a place where APS non approved "oversized" boats don't exist? Huh who would have thought that this may just be a natural phenomenon. In fact in a "low nutrient' which seems to contradict the whole high nutrient run off into the lake is bad and causing these problems. You may want to - before quoting stuff off the internet - check your sources before using them as an exhibit to argue the opposite point. I actually believe that run off and high nutrients are a problem.

In other news, I decided to go take a look in Winter Harbor at the extensive reported damage by APS about all the trees that were falling into the water at such an alarming rate. Shockingly didn't see any. In fact I didn't see any significant wave action in there, few folks pulling people but certainly not the crisis of the century.
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Old 09-02-2018, 06:41 PM   #13
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I wish I could add something definitive about what you saw around Ragged but cannot. Yes frog's egg clusters are common but not especially big. They are a gelantinous-type substance that hang pretty much weightless in the water column.

Senter Cove guy and I have seen these conditions that we call:
- The Fog: just like it sounds-uniform foggieness on the bottom w/no particulate/no stuff in the water column; reduces visibility dramatically; the fog comes and goes; when I first found the tug off the Witches I went over the side to dive it for the first time and was amazed to find as I descended that at only 20 feet from the surface in about 60 feet of water I could clearly see the wreck-wow roughly 40 foot visibility; a 2nd dive a few weeks later on it had the opposite-the fog was so bad we couldn't film and came back another time and got great footage;

- The Snowstorm: Obvious white particles in the water column dense enough to require me to turn down the brightness of my dive light, the same way you turn off your brights when driving in a snowstorm thus the reflection of the light is not so blinding;

- The Ice Tea effect: This is found everywhere from Melvin Bay north to Moultonboro Bay to Lee's Mills to to Hanson Cove-really tough to dive in below about 15 feet again because it kills visibility; SCG and I are working on gaining entry into a pickup truck I found upside down on the bottom and this ice-tea effect adds to an already extremely difficult environment (like 47 degree water in August according to my dive computer and grueling silt); at only 45 feet or so sunlight for all practical purposes is 80% gone;

On the other hand we've been diving alot this summer off the southern tip of Rattlesnake at an average depth of 88 feet or so and for the most part you don't even need a dive light.

It is good however that you post things like this because at some point DES needs to know. Others who have their own stories are also doing the public a great service. Our lake is a gem but it's under assault in many ways that are not always obvious. Asking questions and posting is a great thing.
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Old 09-03-2018, 10:58 AM   #14
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It is a bloom of gleotrichia, which is one type of cyanobacteria. It is advisable to avoid the area of the bloom, as without testing it is unknown whether toxins are present from the bloom. Gleotrichia can release a toxin called microcystin, which is a hepato (liver) toxin.

Yes, you can see gleotrichia in the Broads, usually in late August – they look like tiny yellow balls, which one might think are pollen, but it’s not. Excess nutrients coming into the lake (phosphorus) feed the plants, algae, and cyanobacteria. Blooms of algae and cyanobacteria should be avoided, which is why the NH Dept. of Environmental Services issues the warning.

This is one of many reasons that all of us need to work together to reduce the flow of phosphorous into the lake. Even small amounts can have a significant impact.
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:50 PM   #15
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LWA—thank you for looking into the cause of the problem at Silver Sands. I’m looking at the water there now and it’s the color of liquid mud. I hope a remedy is found so that next summer it resembles the beautiful blue of the rest of the lake. The hull of my boat is nearly jet black and acid washing gets expensive.


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Old 09-05-2018, 10:05 AM   #16
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Exclamation "Repulsive" Algae—But N O T Gloeotrichia Algae...

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Originally Posted by TownieRinker27 View Post
Hi all, I was anchored on the western edge of Ragged yesterday and in an effort to escape the oppressive heat, I decided to take a plunge. When I was choosing my "landing spot", I noticed a grey cloud floating just above bottom with an amorphous shape. It may have been attached to the bottom somehow, but since it looked repulsive, I avoided it. I should have taken a picture, but didn't. My question, maybe naive, but was is "rock snot" (didymo)?
• My trustworthy high-school-aged-neighbor interrupted his own "closing-up" to take the requested picture. (Thank you!)

• The OP's "amorphous, repulsive-algae" drifting over the bottom—with the appearance of green "cotton candy"—is not the Gloeotrichia we see suspended at Lake Winnipesaukee's surface waters.

• When Winter Harbor was a real harbor—and not today's demolition-derby playground for visiting over-sized boats—we saw none of these two very troubling algae types! (Yes, and some here want to tax kayaks!)

• This green, diaphanous, algae fills most of the picture's lower left quadrant, with normal lake-gravel bottom in the upper right quadrant:

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Old 09-05-2018, 11:54 AM   #17
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But I was told by the state biologist that that is good algae, APS. It cleans the bottom very nicely, it eats it way through it. I have not seen the Gloeotrichia.
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:49 PM   #18
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But I was told by the state biologist that that is good algae, APS. It cleans the bottom very nicely, it eats it way through it. I have not seen the Gloeotrichia.
Today, a very tranquil water, with bright sun, showed no Gloeotrichia in the area around our dock.

That "good algae" appears (itself) to be breaking down into muck in deeper areas. Does it then release Phosphorus to the lake bottom, for Gloeotrichia to thrive? The photos below, taken yesterday, show that the green algae moves easily when the water around it is disturbed.

Early in the season, green algae attaches to the upper parts of native vegetation. It's also free-floating, so the state biologist may be referring to a different algae; after all, there are 6000 different species of green algae.

BTW:The green algae around here has (thankfully) no resemblance to "didymo"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tOMSnnAVSU

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Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife View Post
LWA—thank you for looking into the cause of the problem at Silver Sands. I’m looking at the water there now and it’s the color of liquid mud. I hope a remedy is found so that next summer it resembles the beautiful blue of the rest of the lake. The hull of my boat is nearly jet black and acid washing gets expensive.
Perhaps 15 years ago, I asked the forum why some boats had a totally-black discoloration below the waterline.

The answer was an abrupt "Silver Sands"—so—for Lake Winnipesaukee to ever achieve "a beautiful blue" isn't likely any time soon.
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:01 AM   #19
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APS, the biologist was here and she looked at it. This was probably in the early 90s.
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Old 09-17-2018, 07:47 AM   #20
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A Biologist is good. A Limnologist would be better.

Here's a "budding Limnologist" searching for algae.



I searched Google for an algae that cleans, and turned up nothing. I suspect the algae you saw could have been thick enough to rob native vegetation of sunlight.

I'd agree that the algae started appearing along with the oversized boats that started to appear about the same time. Their wakes dragged Phosphorus from shorelines into the shallows.

But it was about 1971 that the Legislature declared the lake's quality to be less than its former "drinking water quality".

Member winterh would be interested.

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