Bravo 3 water pump

[lakershaker]

Has anyone had any issues with the waterpump on their Bravo 3 drives? I was just told that all the bearings on mine blew when the pump was pulled to replace the impellor, and now I will need a whole new pump. The boat just finished its 3rd summer - to me it seems the pump should last longer than that. Also, isn't covered under the extended warrantee apparently...

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by lakershaker

Has anyone had any issues with the waterpump on their Bravo 3 drives? I was just told that all the bearings on mine blew when the pump was pulled to replace the impellor, and now I will need a whole new pump. The boat just finished its 3rd summer - to me it seems the pump should last longer than that. Also, isn't covered under the extended warrantee apparently...

FYI we have had good luck with Paugus Bay Marina when it comes to repair work.
Good luck.
As for someone telling you why bearings went, well unless there is signs that they were damaged and not worn I'd question the mechanic.

[Woodsy]

Are you talking about the Raw Water Pump that is mounted down low underneath the front of the motor?

If so those pumps are all the same Bravo 1, 2, 3 and you can usually find them fairly cheap. I would have an issue with the mechanic who replaced the impeller....

Woodsy

[LIforrelaxin]

Something smells fishy here... I wouldn't think you should be having a bearing issue.... How many hours are on the engine?

[NoBozo]

Is the engine "Raw Water" cooled or "Closed Cooling" with anti freeze...? I would think it would be possible to wear out the bearings in a belt driven pump IF the drive belt had been adjusted Too Tight. You probably already know that Bravo drives (1,2 &3) do NOT have a water pump IN the drive itself. NB

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

Is the engine "Raw Water" cooled or "Closed Cooling" with anti freeze...? I would think it would be possible to wear out the bearings in a belt driven pump IF the drive belt had been adjusted Too Tight. You probably already know that Bravo drives (1,2 &3) do NOT have a water pump IN the drive itself. NB

I had my Baja which was a closed loop system so the water pump pushed lake water through an inter-cooler. I did have the water pump internals replaced once in the 11 years that I owned it.
I did rack store it for several years and during the rebuild was told that the worst possible thing for this type of water pump is in and out of water. The water pump being allowed to drain allows the components to dry out which is worse for them then being immersed in the lake all the time.

[NoBozo]

The 454 and 502 (Mark V) V8s with (any) Bravo drives have TWO water pumps. One is called the raw water pump and the other is the engine circulating pump. Both are belt driven and I think it doesn't matter if the engine has "closed cooling". NB

PS: Unless I'm mistaken, the engine circulating pump has a Rigid "metal" (cast iron..?) impeller and the raw water pump has a Rubber impeller.

[jrc]

The engine circulating pump is in the spot that an automotive water pump occupies. It is belt driven and has a rigid impellar, it does not have to self-prime. These will eventually have a bearing failure and leak just like a car.

The raw water pump is belt driven and mounted low on the engine. It has a rubber vane impellar that needs regular replacement. My first boat failed after four season and around 380 hours. My current boat is a Volvo but I just had them replaced and they were on their way out after 5 seasons.

I guess the bearings will fail eventually, three seasons seems a little short. But they don't make things like they used to. Ask for the used parts.

[lakershaker]

It is the raw water pump which pulls lake water in for cooling. Supposedly, mechanic said when doing the work to replace impeller, the pump fell apart from wear. Boat has about 250 hrs on it, with the original water pump.

Thanks for all the info. Unfortunately, I am too far away from the lake in the winter to be able to check it myself, and need to trust that they are being honest about it. But man, it is expensive!

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by lakershaker

It is the raw water pump which pulls lake water in for cooling. Supposedly, mechanic said when doing the work to replace impeller, the pump fell apart from wear. Boat has about 250 hrs on it, with the original water pump.

Thanks for all the info. Unfortunately, I am too far away from the lake in the winter to be able to check it myself, and need to trust that they are being honest about it. But man, it is expensive!

It is an expensive fix. The problem is that the pump is in a place where you cannot easily get at it. If you got 250 hours out of this one then you did very well.
I do know that there is an upgraded water pump which I was told is supposed to outlast the original. But they do require replacement on a somewhat regular basis.
FYI the inter-coolers do not last a lifetime either. That was a $1000 replacement.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

It is an expensive fix. The problem is that the pump is in a place where you cannot easily get at it. If you got 250 hours out of this one then you did very well.
I do know that there is an upgraded water pump which I was told is supposed to outlast the original. But they do require replacement on a somewhat regular basis.
FYI the inter-coolers do not last a lifetime either. That was a $1000 replacement.

I'm sorry BR: I dispute your InterCooler comment. The intercooler will last At Least as long as the engine. The intercooler is an INERT entity. NO moving parts like a water pump. NB

[NoBozo]

My 350 V8..Alpha 1 has been around since 1986. The engine has 680 hours. The engine circulating pump has never been replaced. No need. The ALPHA (rubber impeller) pump was replaced ONCE in 20 years.

The drive was replaced three years ago with a brand new drive. Pump included IN the new drive. NB

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by lakershaker

Has anyone had any issues with the waterpump on their Bravo 3 drives? I was just told that all the bearings on mine blew when the pump was pulled to replace the impellor, and now I will need a whole new pump. The boat just finished its 3rd summer - to me it seems the pump should last longer than that. Also, isn't covered under the extended warrantee apparently...

Depending on the engine you have, the pump might be rebuildable. IF the bearings failed, it was probably due to a failed seal letting water into the bearings. What engine model/year do you have? Do you happen to have the serial number for it?

[lakershaker]

It's a 2008 496. Don't have the serial # handy though. There was a period of time this fall when we had heavy rain and infrequent visits, and the battery eventually died. This led to higher than ususal water in the bilge, but not enough I think to actually reach the block, but you never really know...

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and insights as well.

[ITD]

FWIW, I have my impeller changed every 2 years as recommended by Volvo Penta per my marina. Never had a problem, impellers look aged after two years. 8.1 DP

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

My 350 V8..Alpha 1 has been around since 1986. The engine has 680 hours. The engine circulating pump has never been replaced. No need. The ALPHA (rubber impeller) pump was replaced ONCE in 20 years.

The drive was replaced three years ago with a brand new drive. Pump included IN the new drive. NB

FWIW, you are pushing the envelope in an Alpha 1 drive by only replacing the impeller once in 20 years. Pretty cheap insurance for a $35 part.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

FWIW, you are pushing the envelope in an Alpha 1 drive by only replacing the impeller once in 20 years. Pretty cheap insurance for a $35 part.

I do almost all my own work. When I bought the boat it was 10 years old. I was getting older and figured it was about time I sat back and let someone else do the work.

The boat yard replaced the gimbal bearing, realigned the engine, replaced the water pump in the Alpha, and changed the lower unit oil. The bill came to $715. I had expected a bill of around $300 or so. I had asked that they "save" all the parts they replaced. They did. It was their indictment.

The boat only had 125 hours on it from new so the gimbal bearing was of course perfect. I Know what a "good" bearing Feels like. I started asking questions and it went down hill from there. The fellow threatened to call the cops.

I PAID the bill and collected my boat and drive and left. If I hadn't, they were going to "Hold" the outdrive as security until I did. I considered that episode an education. Education isn't free.

SAD to say, I have had an attitude toward mechanics ever since, and I went back to doing my own work. NB

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

I do almost all my own work. When I bought the boat it was 10 years old. I was getting older and figured it was about time I sat back and let someone else do the work.

The boat yard replaced the gimbal bearing, realigned the engine, replaced the water pump in the Alpha, and changed the lower unit oil. The bill came to $715. I had expected a bill of around $300 or so. I had asked that they "save" all the parts they replaced. They did. It was their indictment.

The boat only had 125 hours on it from new so the gimbal bearing was of course perfect. I Know what a "good" bearing Feels like. I started asking questions and it went down hill from there. The fellow threatened to call the cops.

I PAID the bill and collected my boat and drive and left. If I hadn't, they were going to "Hold" the outdrive as security until I did. I considered that episode an education. Education isn't free.

SAD to say, I have had an attitude toward mechanics ever since, and I went back to doing my own work. NB

Do you have all the tools necessary to pull the Gimbal bearing and and check the alignment? Mallory makes a good one that attaches to the Bell Housing.
With the many talents that you have I'm sure that you have already made one.

What did they estimate the job would cost?

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Do you have all the tools necessary to pull the Gimbal bearing and and check the alignment? Mallory makes a good one that attaches to the Bell Housing.
With the many talents that you have I'm sure that you have already made one.

What did they estimate the job would cost?

Yes they did. ...around $250.

YES Rusty: There are some jobs that require "Special Tools" ...and that's when I HAVE to go to the "Mechanics"...and TRUST that I don't get screwed.

"With the many talents that you have I'm sure that you have already made one."

Rusty: I totally respect your input. But I am not a Smart Azz..even if some may get that impression.

I am 71 years old and have a LIFE experience with "Mechanics" and generally it has not been good. The problem is...I KNOW TOO MUCH. I know when I'm being conned... NB

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

Yes they did. ...around $250.

YES Rusty: There are some jobs that require "Special Tools" ...and that's when I HAVE to go to the "Mechanics"...and TRUST that I don't get screwed.

"With the many talents that you have I'm sure that you have already made one."

Rusty: I totally respect your input. But I am not a Smart Ass..even if some may get that impression.

I am 71 years old and have a LIFE experience with "Mechanics" and generally it has not been good. The problem is...I KNOW TOO MUCH. I know when I'm being conned... NB

No-bozo I would have taken them to small claims court as well as notifying the BBB about the practices. Someone who commits fraud should be held accountable. Removing and replacing known good parts is fraud.
I tend to have the same problem, I know a lot about the right way to do things and the way they should look & run when done properly, that is why I talk to the mechanic ahead of time, this way they know I will be looking.
It is sad that it is really hard to find someone you can trust.

[Rinkerfam]

I just had the raw water pump replaced on my '04 Merc 5.0 Bravo III this past summer. This was at approx. 300 hours. I had the work done at Paugus Bay Marina where we keep the boat. It sounds like we were lucky to get that many seasons out of it. Reggie at PBM said it is a difficult job due to the location. He had to do it all by "feel" in my boat (Rinker 232 Captiva). I would recommend PBM to anyone needing service. They are honest, reasonable and in my opinion have the best mechanic (Reggie) on the lake!

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by Rinkerfam

I just had the raw water pump replaced on my '04 Merc 5.0 Bravo III this past summer. This was at approx. 300 hours. I had the work done at Paugus Bay Marina where we keep the boat. It sounds like we were lucky to get that many seasons out of it. Reggie at PBM said it is a difficult job due to the location. He had to do it all by "feel" in my boat (Rinker 232 Captiva). I would recommend PBM to anyone needing service. They are honest, reasonable and in my opinion have the best mechanic (Reggie) on the lake!

They did mine and said the same thing about the pump. 5 years before rebuild and they said I was also lucky. Never had it replaced again, before I sold it.
They do good work there.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by lakershaker

It's a 2008 496. Don't have the serial # handy though. There was a period of time this fall when we had heavy rain and infrequent visits, and the battery eventually died. This led to higher than ususal water in the bilge, but not enough I think to actually reach the block, but you never really know...

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and insights as well.

Pretty sure you just need to replace the main shaft and bearings (part 8M0050018, about $60-$75) seals (26-8M200165, 26-862040 about 10 bucks), and tolerance ring (862039) and of course a standard rebuild (47-862232A2 about 35 bucks) while you have it out. You can verify these part numbers at your dealer with your engine serial number. There's no need to drop $700+ for an entire pump if just the bearings failed.

There's a good write-up on the standard rebuild, with a great drawing of all the parts in the pump right here: http://www.sterndrives.com/rebuild_b...waterpump.html A facory service manual would be a great investment for the shaft/bearing/seal swap.

I'm a big fan of fixing things and only replacing parts that are actually failed. It's amazing how much information is available on the web for people like me. In just the past year, using nothing more than the internet and good tools, I have been able to repair: a 50" plasma TV (failed Z sustain and power supply, $130 in parts), A Nikon AF lens (failed FPC focusing sensor, $26) a mercruiser starter (failed ring gear, $7), a Coleman 5000 watt generator (worn out Tecumseh 10HP engine, $100 for a brand-new short block assembly), a garage door opener (failed plastic gear, $5) and a boat trailer axle (spindle, backing plate assembly and brake drum assembly, $150). I'm sure there's other stuff, this is just what comes to mind.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Do you have all the tools necessary to pull the Gimbal bearing and and check the alignment?

I have a couple of alignment tools if anyone ever needs to borrow one. They work for both VP and Merc. One tool is a special one that I designed for figuring out gross misalignments. Works great if you can't figure out which way to adjust when a standard tool just won't go in.

Gimbal bearing comes out pretty easily with a slide hammer.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

No-bozo I would have taken them to small claims court as well as notifying the BBB about the practices. Someone who commits fraud should be held accountable. Removing and replacing known good parts is fraud.
I tend to have the same problem, I know a lot about the right way to do things and the way they should look & run when done properly, that is why I talk to the mechanic ahead of time, this way they know I will be looking.
It is sad that it is really hard to find someone you can trust.

Proving mechanic fraud is difficult unless you have detailed proof.

Besides, don't you always want to replace "known good" parts on a boat? I mean if you wait until the parts are "known bad" then they are broken and you are stranded, hopefully ashore. On any complex machine, that you need for safety or just not to ruin a nice weekend, you end up throwing out good parts with preventive maintenance. I can't count how many quarts of "known good" oil I've replaced.

The key is finding a mechanic you can trust, the rest is easy, trust them.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I have a couple of alignment tools if anyone ever needs to borrow one. They work for both VP and Merc. One tool is a special one that I designed for figuring out gross misalignments. Works great if you can't figure out which way to adjust when a standard tool just won't go in.

Gimbal bearing comes out pretty easily with a slide hammer.

The only thing a good mechanic needs in his tool box is a small hammer and big hammer.

Slide hammers work Ok if you get behind the bearing evenly. I've seen some DIY's make a mess using a slide hammer.

Could you post some pictures of the special designed alignment tool that you made?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Rusty

The only thing a good mechanic needs in his tool box is a small hammer and big hammer.

Slide hammers work Ok if you get behind the bearing evenly. I've seen some DIY's make a mess using a slide hammer.

Could you post some pictures of the special designed alignment tool that you made?

I don't have a pic of the alignment tool. It's just two pieces rather than one. One part is basically a machined steel pipe that has an OD that just fits in the bearing, the other part fits perfectly in the steel pipe and also fits in the coupler. If you use the inner part in the coupler without the pipe part, you can easily tell which way to make gross adjustments.

The slide hammer I was referring to is a special tool for removing bearings. Like this:

[mowtorman]

Here's the pump and impeller. The spindle is similar to the blade spindles on a lawn tractor, and the bearings can fail in a similar manner. The impeller housing is plastic and bolts to it. It can be very difficult to access depending on the brand of boat. You can see two old impellers. The fins become brittle as the rubber dries and hardens and break off with time as you can see. When they break off the pump partially works for a short time before it disintegrates. The pieces can end up in the thermostat housing and block the flow of water to the exhaust manifolds which can crack. Definitely less expensive to pay ahead on preventive maintenance let alone the possibility of getting stranded and having to get towed on a beautiful summer day.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by mowtorman

Here's the pump and impeller. The spindle is similar to the blade spindles on a lawn tractor, and the bearings can fail in a similar manner. The impeller housing is plastic and bolts to it. It can be very difficult to access depending on the brand of boat. You can see two old impellers. The fins become brittle as the rubber dries and hardens and break off with time as you can see. When they break off the pump partially works for a short time before it disintegrates. The pieces can end up in the thermostat housing and block the flow of water to the exhaust manifolds which can crack. Definitely less expensive to pay ahead on preventive maintenance let alone the possibility of getting stranded and having to get towed on a beautiful summer day.

The 496 pump as described by the OP is different than that one. Advice still applies though.

[NoBozo]

BTW: Running an Alpha I without water will burn/melt the impellor in less than a minute. I'm not making this up. I learned this by doing. NB

[mowtorman]

On the 496. The one shown is a 350 bravo but with basically the same internals and the same issues.

[Dave R]

The bottom of this page shows the three Bravo pump styles: http://www.sterndrives.com/rebuild_b...waterpump.html You (assuming that's your pump in the picture) and I have the middle style pumps (I have a 7.4 MPI).