Jet ski lifts/permits

[snax]

New user here.
I've been lurking for years, finally joined.
Not an area resident, but family has owned on the lakes since 85. On the big lake since 95.

So these jet ski lifts...
Do these need permits? From what I read on the state websites, yes.

Can I look up if there are permits? I don't think they (neighbors) have any.

I'm not one to look to restrict access to anybody, the lake is there for everybody, but I have neighbors that are taking some liberties, and it's getting pretty ridiculous. They have them stacked two deep. They have the steel cradles up on the shoreline/in water, in addition to the lifts in the water. They will soon go 3 deep.They are right up to the property line. Its becoming a safety issue with all the congestion, don't even get me started on when they pull out/pull in at full throttle/high speed.

Every summer we've seen people put illegal moorings as well.
I'd like to start a conversation with them, but I want to make sure that I'm fully informed on my arguments.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by snax

New user here.
I've been lurking for years, finally joined.
Not an area resident, but family has owned on the lakes since 85. On the big lake since 95.

So these jet ski lifts...
Do these need permits? From what I read on the state websites, yes.

Can I look up if there are permits? I don't think they (neighbors) have any.

I'm not one to look to restrict access to anybody, the lake is there for everybody, but I have neighbors that are taking some liberties, and it's getting pretty ridiculous. They have them stacked two deep. They have the steel cradles up on the shoreline/in water, in addition to the lifts in the water. They will soon go 3 deep.They are right up to the property line. Its becoming a safety issue with all the congestion, don't even get me started on when they pull out/pull in at full throttle/high speed.

Every summer we've seen people put illegal moorings as well.
I'd like to start a conversation with them, but I want to make sure that I'm fully informed on my arguments.

Welcome to the forum, friend!

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[camp guy]

I think you will have to ask Marine Patrol these questions in order to get an accurate answer to your questions. Be prepared, because in a situation like you describe it probably isn't possible to "dip your toe", you will probably have to get all wet, and this could end up making an unpleasant situation between you and your neighbor. I don't like the idea of the tail wagging the dog, but your only alternative is to ask questions of the Marine Patrol and this may lead to exposing his bad habits.

[snax]

Originally Posted by camp guy

I think you will have to ask Marine Patrol these questions in order to get an accurate answer to your questions. Be prepared, because in a situation like you describe it probably isn't possible to "dip your toe", you will probably have to get all wet, and this could end up making an unpleasant situation between you and your neighbor. I don't like the idea of the tail wagging the dog, but your only alternative is to ask questions of the Marine Patrol and this may lead to exposing his bad habits.

Went over to Glendale already, they told me to go to DES.
Tough to go into alot of detail here because it's public forum, don't want to out them or myself (which would out them)
We've had the same neighbors for 25 years, we've blocked them on a few things in the past. It's been ok now for the last 15 or so, except for the last few.

If they have everything required, fine, but at least on that end I can maybe raise some concerns and maybe we can have a conversation work something out. If they need permits, and there is way for me to find out if they have them, and they don't, that conversation can be quite a bit different.

I don't want to get outside involvement, I'd like to avoid that. Getting the government's "help" rarely goes the way you expect (the last 3 months have proven that, i think). Everything on my end is on the level, but If I need to go get a permit or anything on the water side or on land they will no doubt challenge me if I cause issues for them on this.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by snax

Went over to Glendale already, they told me to go to DES.
Tough to go into alot of detail here because it's public forum, don't want to out them or myself (which would out them)
We've had the same neighbors for 25 years, we've blocked them on a few things in the past. It's been ok now for the last 15 or so, except for the last few.

If they have everything required, fine, but at least on that end I can maybe raise some concerns and maybe we can have a conversation work something out. If they need permits, and there is way for me to find out if they have them, and they don't, that conversation can be quite a bit different.

I don't want to get outside involvement, I'd like to avoid that. Getting the government's "help" rarely goes the way you expect (the last 3 months have proven that, i think). Everything on my end is on the level, but If I need to go get a permit or anything on the water side or on land they will no doubt challenge me if I cause issues for them on this.

You can do a permit search here:

https://www4.des.state.nh.us/lrmonestop/LRMQuery.aspx

[snax]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

You can do a permit search here:

https://www4.des.state.nh.us/lrmonestop/LRMQuery.aspx

I see no permits there.
Nothing, in fact, for anything I've seen them do over the last 20+ years.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by snax

I see no permits there.
Nothing, in fact, for anything I've seen them do over the last 20+ years.

You probably already know this, but the permit search must be done for the legal title holder to the property. For instance, if the property is owned by a trust or LLC that doesn’t use your neighbor’s last name, then permits won’t show up in a search using their last name. Or....maybe they never applied for any permits....

Good luck

[winni83]

You can also search by the Tax Map and Lot Number within any particular town, to avoid issues with the property being in a trust, etc.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by winni83

You can also search by the Tax Map and Lot Number within any particular town, to avoid issues with the property being in a trust, etc.

Yes, good point.

[snax]

I looked at the road only, map/lot, name, town and all combos. Nothing. One thing from the mid-90's

[WinnisquamZ]

Is it not as single as one lift is counted as a boat slip, I believe. 150’ gives you a max of three slips. 80’ gives you one dock two slips. Anymore then that is illegal


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[TiltonBB]

NH dock sizes allowed based on the water frontage of your property

Less than 75 feet A single 4-foot × 24-foot dock. You must have abutter’s consent if the dock will be placed closer than 20 feet to abutter’s property line.

75 feet to 149 feet 2 Slips
150 feet to 224 feet 3 Slips
225 feet to 299 feet 4 Slips
300 feet to 374 feet 5 slips

New docks or additions to existing docks must be located at least 20 feet from abutting property lines, including the imaginary extensions of those property lines over the water. Any boat secured to a dock may not extend beyond the extension of the abutter's property line.

If an applicant proposes to place docking structures within 20 feet of an abutter’s property line or the imaginary extension of the property line over the water, the applicant must provide a signed, notarized letter from the adjacent property owner granting permission for the new docking structure to be placed within 20 feet of his/her property line.

Of course docking structures that do not meet today's regulations but were in place before the current regulations are generally grandfathered as long as they were legal when they were built.

[Barney Bear]

New docks can be 40 feet long. 🐻

[snax]

Thanks. This is good info.
They have alot of frontage, but are WAY over what they should have.
I have what I think is a grandfathered dock, permanent with piers thats about 80 feet. (needs to be, water very shallow).
My neighbor on the other side of me has about 100' with fingers that he completely rebuilt two years ago, all his permits for that show up, we did get a notice for that one because of the angle of the property line and the length of his dock pushed the end into the imaginary line. They had no problems with the state getting approvals for any of it. All is good on that side of us though, never any problems.
The others are definitely in violation of the 20ft rule. They are less than a foot to the property line with the closest one, and the have multiple shore jacks/cradles within 20 feet. They also have a seasonal dock further down.

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by Barney Bear

New docks can be 40 feet long. 🐻

Does the 40 foot rule hold regardless of frontage???

[Barney Bear]

I believe so. DES can confirm this belief. 😇

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Winilyme

Does the 40 foot rule hold regardless of frontage???

Keep in mind the 40' of length is only for seasonal, not permanent docks. This is not valid for lots with less than 75' of frontage.

Also frontage for permitting purposes is calculated as an average between actual running feet and the measurement of pin to pin.

[milesbob]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

NH dock sizes allowed based on the water frontage of your property

Less than 75 feet A single 4-foot × 24-foot dock. You must have abutter’s consent if the dock will be placed closer than 20 feet to abutter’s property line.

75 feet to 149 feet 2 Slips
150 feet to 224 feet 3 Slips
225 feet to 299 feet 4 Slips
300 feet to 374 feet 5 slips

New docks or additions to existing docks must be located at least 20 feet from abutting property lines, including the imaginary extensions of those property lines over the water. Any boat secured to a dock may not extend beyond the extension of the abutter's property line.

If an applicant proposes to place docking structures within 20 feet of an abutter’s property line or the imaginary extension of the property line over the water, the applicant must provide a signed, notarized letter from the adjacent property owner granting permission for the new docking structure to be placed within 20 feet of his/her property line.

Of course docking structures that do not meet today's regulations but were in place before the current regulations are generally grandfathered as long as they were legal when they were built.

If you have less than 75 ft of frontage, can you get a dock longer than 24' if the water level is too shallow and below the 36" depth required. I know you could previously to the changes made in Dec/Jan. How about now.
My 24' dock is too shallow to store a 20' boat come Sept/Oct when the lake is drawn down.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by milesbob

If you have less than 75 ft of frontage, can you get a dock longer than 24' if the water level is too shallow and below the 36" depth required. I know you could previously to the changes made in Dec/Jan. How about now.
My 24' dock is too shallow to store a 20' boat come Sept/Oct when the lake is drawn down.

My friend who bought property in Alton Bay had his waterfront surveyed. He had about 50 ft or so of shoreline. He owns a 26ft Cobalt, and at 24 ft, the water was only knee deep. With his survey, he got approval for a 60 ft seasonal dock (6 10 ft sections). He went before the Conservation Board in Alton, got their stamp of approval, then down to DES. They had one or two questions, and gave approval. Installing the dock, he has to maintain 25 ft from his extended property line on the east side if his property. Easy process.

Dave

[milesbob]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

My friend who bought property in Alton Bay had his waterfront surveyed. He had about 50 ft or so of shoreline. He owns a 26ft Cobalt, and at 24 ft, the water was only knee deep. With his survey, he got approval for a 60 ft seasonal dock (6 10 ft sections). He went before the Conservation Board in Alton, got their stamp of approval, then down to DES. They had one or two questions, and gave approval. Installing the dock, he has to maintain 25 ft from his extended property line on the east side if his property. Easy process.

Dave

Was this before or after January 2020, as the rules may have changed after he applied

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by milesbob

Was this before or after January 2020, as the rules may have changed after he applied

It was 5 years ago. After speaking with him the other night, his point to point frontage (boundary pin to pin) was mid to upper 60s, and the measurement at the water line was still a few feet short of the 75 ft mark. He applied for and got the exception as stated above.

Dave