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Old 10-25-2015, 07:49 PM   #1
IslandRadio
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Question Dock broke - question about aluminum trusses or other aluminum DIY solutions

My very old wooden dock broke in half a couple of weeks after I tilted it up from the season (the dock is hinged at the shore).

So, I have to fix it - most likely in the spring. Would like to do it myself (well, with help!).

One solution I'm thinking about is to use 12 inch square aluminum trusses - running down each of the sides, with cross members between them for further stabilization and strength.

These types of trusses are not inexpensive, but probably quite a bit less expensive than getting a whole aluminum dock frame strong enough to be tipped up - but maybe not.

Anyone know anything about the cost of strong aluminum dock frames suitable for docks up to 40 feet (mine is around 35 feet)?

Thanks and Regards,

Steve
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Old 10-25-2015, 08:03 PM   #2
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Default Repair aluminum

While I applaud and appreciate your interest in doing this yourself, with some help, I think I would make the comment that this is one of those jobs where if everything goes alright, thing are good, but, if something goes wrong if could go horribly wrong with very unhappy results. I am going to "spend your money" and at least suggest having one of the local dock businesses give you a quote.

Best of Luck, Have a Happy Thanksgiving!!
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Old 10-25-2015, 09:38 PM   #3
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Lightbulb Hybrid Dock Opportunity...

IMHO, hoisting a wooden dock of that size was asking a lot of wood construction.

Because you want to keep costs down, this may be the time to consider a "hybrid" dock.

Because of winter's "drawdown" of the lake, consider setting professionally one pair of wood pilings 20-feet from your shoreline. (Call for installation this season). Pilings that close to shore are highly resistant to ice pressure, and are much firmer than other pilings further out.

Next spring, take the strongest 20-foot part of your old damaged wood dock and secure it atop the two pilings. The rest of the dock can be aluminum, which can be folded back (flat) on the wood dock, keeping winter's winds from the violent oscillating twists that aluminum docks can suffer when hoisted, with the added benefit of sparing the base from damage.

(And you've got all winter to design its construction).



.

I've also learned of a handyman who might be able to assist. PM me, and I'll inquire of his availability this season or next Spring.
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Old 10-26-2015, 04:25 PM   #4
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Best of Luck, Have a Happy Thanksgiving!!
I am already seeing Christmas stuff in the stores!

Merry Christmas
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Old 10-29-2015, 11:42 AM   #5
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Default option

I'll push "camp guy" further. At some point you'll need to repair the wooden section. I had a 35' wooden dock with five 7'X4' sections. It got to a point where I was constantly fixing the dock the last few years. I finally bit the bullet after 40 yrs. of putting in/taking out and got a lift dock. All I do now is remove planks, add chains and press a button. My back says thank-you every time I do this.
My suggestion is to look at lift docks and compare against what your going to be doing. Yes, it will cost more but you won't have to worry about anything concerning the dock.

I bought my from Raise-A-Dock, Wakefield, NH. after checking others. They use round galvanized poles for support post. I also used them on my old dock. The advantage is you can level the dock without getting in the water. I have a mini come-as-long that connects to top of pole to the frame of the dock.They have many options and other forum members can attest to the docks he makes.

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Old 10-29-2015, 06:57 PM   #6
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Default Raise a dock

We bought our Raise a Dock in 2009 -- and never looked back. The owner, Dennis, is a great guy and always helpful. Yes, it was costly, but worth every Penny.
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Old 11-02-2015, 06:44 AM   #7
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Default Aluminum docks

You should be able to get a 40 X 4 aluminum frame built for about $7,000. There are at least two aluminum fabricators in the Gilford area who will custom build the frame to meet your needs. They will look at your situation and how your dock will attach and pivot for raising and build just what you need.

I am on open water with considerable wave action so I opted for a heavy frame and 4 X 6 posts. I prefer them to the pipe docks. I have put in two aluminum docks over the last 10 years so my pricing is not real recent.

If you are handy at all you can build the decking yourself.
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:43 PM   #8
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Question How would you build/position it?

How would you build the dock and get it into position?

My research shows a general purpose 12"x12" pre-fabricated truss would weigh about 160lbs for 30' length. You'd need two of those, so over 300 lbs (without connectors, legs, etc). How would you get it into position? Rent a crane?

I'm assuming you'd be building this on shore and bringing it over to the island via the crane's barge? I don't think you'd want to be welding this together in/over the water (assuming you brought out 10' sections to connect together).

Sounds like a very interesting project.

BTW - we had the exact same thing happen to us the year after we bought our place. Had Watermark build and install a 20' aluminum crankup.
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Old 11-02-2015, 07:52 PM   #9
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Default

Without knowing the exact situation and location it is difficult to speculate. I used to have a 47 foot steel frame pipe dock that I paid someone $700 every year to remove and put back in place in the spring. It was in 4 very heavy sections.

One year in the fall, the dock people had stacked them at the waterfront in an area that I knew would be underwater in the spring. Despite repeated phone calls they were there for the winter.

In the spring I lifted them slightly with a crowbar and put large deflated truck tire tubes underneath them. It was easy to inflate the tubes and float the dock sections into place. One man job and I saved a lot of money.
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Old 11-02-2015, 09:00 PM   #10
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How would you build the dock and get it into position?

My research shows a general purpose 12"x12" pre-fabricated truss would weigh about 160lbs for 30' length. You'd need two of those, so over 300 lbs (without connectors, legs, etc). How would you get it into position? Rent a crane?

I'm assuming you'd be building this on shore and bringing it over to the island via the crane's barge? I don't think you'd want to be welding this together in/over the water (assuming you brought out 10' sections to connect together).

Sounds like a very interesting project.

BTW - we had the exact same thing happen to us the year after we bought our place. Had Watermark build and install a 20' aluminum crankup.
That is a good question !

My thought (and this is not by any means completely thought out!) was to build it in place using 8 foot sections. The sections bolt together. They are amazingly strong, but trusses usually are.

Anyway, back to the construction - build it out in sections; attach two 8 foot sections to the pivot point; put the cross pieces in place; put the uprights in place. I would hold it up with a jack arrangement - used this sort of thing many times in the past. The water is not overly deep (about neck high at the end of the dock).

Again, not completely planned out, but maybe a usable general idea... Needs a whole lot more thought.

It just seems to me that one can build an aluminum dock from parts such as these, just as well as one can build a wooden frame dock. Maybe not, but certainly worth a good, long look.

The thing should be lighter than a wood frame dock of the same length (I would think anyway), so should be easier to crank up for the winter.

If this is folly, please point it out to me.
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:59 AM   #11
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Default Keep Me in Mind

As I'm just around the other side of the island from you, let me know when you're going to be putting it together. If I can make it up that weekend, I'll lend a hand - be good experience seeing this in action!

- Rich
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Old 11-03-2015, 12:09 PM   #12
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One option is what was done for me: install the header bar frame assembly and hang the frame on the pivot bar in winter, then crank it up until ice-out. Mine was done late March a year and a half ago. It's a 6x30 aluminum frame, in one piece. It was delivered by pickup truck/trailer over the ice. Two guys carried it from the trailer in to shore, for hanging on the header bar after it was mounted. Having solid, level ice made delivery and mounting easier than if there were no ice. They had to wait until mid-April for the ice to melt around the dock before they could attach the legs and set height, and then it was cranked up again to await the rest of ice-out. Before the legs were on, I climbed out on the frame, supported by just the cable. Boy, that thing is torsionally rigid.
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:27 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Pricestavern View Post
As I'm just around the other side of the island from you, let me know when you're going to be putting it together. If I can make it up that weekend, I'll lend a hand - be good experience seeing this in action!

- Rich
Thanks Rich!

Should be an interesting project, if I end up doing it

Will most likely attend the boat show in 2016 - there are usually a lot of dock vendors there to talk with. Maybe get some ball park pricing.
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Old 12-28-2015, 05:52 AM   #14
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Question No Cables, No Damaged Panels...

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Thanks Rich! Should be an interesting project, if I end up doing it
Will most likely attend the boat show in 2016 - there are usually a lot of dock vendors there to talk with. Maybe get some ball park pricing.
Was the dock below shown at the boat show?

For one person, how could installing a dock be made any easier?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rCpiAUs3nk



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Old 12-28-2015, 07:59 AM   #15
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Was the dock below shown at the boat show?

For one person, how could installing a dock be made any easier?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rCpiAUs3nk



.
While this system looks very easy to assemble, what about the length of the legs going into the ever deepening water?
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Old 12-28-2015, 02:27 PM   #16
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Default ...... this old dock

So, how much does this easy-peasy to install dock cost for a 30' x 5' dock like in the video? My dock has got to be the oldest aluminum dock in the world.....it was designed and built by neanderthals before aluminum was even discovered, or invented .....whichever came first? Every year, it loses about 25 aluminum rivets, and I replace each missing rivet with a #12 x 1 1/4" pan head, phillips, stainless sheet metal screw from Heath's Hardware which seems to be a better fix than the original neanderthal installed rivets!

My old dock has got to last me at least another thirty-six years because I cannot afford to replace it!
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Old 12-28-2015, 03:12 PM   #17
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Default Wave Action Concern

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While this system looks very easy to assemble, what about the length of the legs going into the ever deepening water?
That's a good point. Plus, I'd be concerned about the effect of my boat bouncing around against it during rough weather. The dock shown looks like pretty light construction. I'd worry that it would get bent or kinked with the boat shoving it around. I don't think dock whips would be usable with this system, either. Be nice on a pond or slow moving river, though.
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Old 12-29-2015, 11:56 AM   #18
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.... Plus, I'd be concerned about the effect of my boat bouncing around against it during rough weather. The dock shown looks like pretty light construction. I'd worry that it would get bent or kinked with the boat shoving it around. I don't think dock whips would be usable with this system, either.....
That dock in the video did seem a bit lightweight, but then a lot of rigidity is achieved with L-sections or a wider dock. As I mentioned, my 6x30 crankup is quite torsionally rigid, being anchored solidly at the shore, and I do have whip mounting plates welded onto the frame; the whips bolt through the deck sections to those plates, and they don't move at all. The boat pitches substantially when a big boat wake crashes ashore, and the whips take all the action, while the dock stays put.

As for ease of installation, I turn the winch handle and the frame sets gently down to the bottom. I carry each cedar deck section, 6 by just under 4, out to the frame and set it in place; a section weight is mid-upper 50s (lb), an easy one-man move. When I get decking laid out to where the lift cable attaches, I detach that and wind it back onto the winch reel for the summer, then drop the last two deck sections on. I have to lay down on the dock surface to reach under with a wrench when I bolt the whip bases in place, but that's easy.

For removal, the process is just reversed. It's handy to have a magnet attached to a string for retrieval of nuts and washers that leap out of my hands into the water under the whip plates. Doing this on a cold November day seems to make the small parts jump around a lot more actively. After the cable is reattached and the rest of the deck sections carted away, the winch hauls the "lifting ladder" up easily to perhaps 30 degrees above horizontal, at which point the "Y" cable from its end down to the dock frame goes tight. Then the cranking gets harder as the heavy frame comes up out of the water, to a point where the closest dock legs will stay comfortably above where the ice will be. The whole process is a lot easier now, compared to the ordeal of wrestling water-logged wood frames up over the embankment each fall.

As TiltonBB said, you can build your own deck sections yourself and save some labor cost. I did that for mine, using cedar for its light weight and natural rot resistance. I did a quick calculation on weight of other choices, and I found that pressure treated wood or composite decking would have nearly doubled the weight of each section.
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Old 12-29-2015, 01:07 PM   #19
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Default Corrected

DickR - what is the frame of your crank-up made of? I too have a crank-up (20') but the frame is made of a single, welded aluminum box girder-like structure. The one shown in the video is sectional. I think that would make a difference in its rigidity, no?

Last edited by Pricestavern; 12-29-2015 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Additional info added
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Old 12-29-2015, 03:19 PM   #20
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The dock frame is welded aluminum. The top chord is 2x4 all around. Perhaps 16-18" below that is a 2x2 chord. The two are connected vertically with pairs of 2x2 pieces on each side, where the legs go. There are four pairs of 4x6 PT wood legs out over the 30 length, or a bit short of eight feet apart. The pairs of vertical 2x2 pieces have a small gap between them, and the bolts holding the legs strapped to the frame pass between the pair. A piece of peel & stick rubber roofing membrane keeps the PT wood separated from the aluminum.

Across the 6' width are 2x2 cross members, except 2x4 at the two ends. There also is 2x2 cross-bracing. The lifting ladder is rectangular, made of 2x4 sides and 2x2 "rungs." This is 24 ft long. It sets down over the lateral members and cross-bracing and, with the two sides of the dock, helps support the deck sections.

In the first pic, you can see the two whip mounting plates, one near the outer corner, the other 10' in. The second pic shows the frame mounted on the header bar assembly, which was welded up in place for the set of boulders at the shore. In that second pic, that's not the lake bottom under the header bar. It's a lot of rock debris from drilling into the boulders for the expansion bolts and from chiseling out a place at the top of one boulder to make room for the header bar. The ice was well over a foot below that dirt, right down to the lake bottom.
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Old 12-29-2015, 03:52 PM   #21
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Dick You didn't mention that we cut and lap all of our joints before the process of the mig and tig welding and we also cross brace and gusset the joints so the dock can handle pretty much anything you put on it ! Thanks for posting your pics its great to see are dock work from Center Harbor Dock and Pier on the forum....
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Old 12-29-2015, 03:54 PM   #22
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quality of the welds when finished ....
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Old 12-29-2015, 03:59 PM   #23
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This is a crank up we built this year to replace an old wooden seasonal to add in a finished product to the thread.
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Old 12-30-2015, 05:38 AM   #24
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Default Up and Down

The longer dock is 47 feet and required a boom to lift it. The boom collapses for summer and is stored underneath the decking.

The wider dock was actually two separate pieces that were bolted together permanently after they were placed in the water.

When the dock is raised for the winter make sure you attach lines to the shore from the outer end. The lines are to prevent the dock from swinging side to side when it is windy. That will break welds or otherwise put a lot of stress on the dock.

After a lot of years of lifting the decking, recently I have been using a hand truck (two wheeler) to remove and replace the decking. It sure beats carrying them!

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Old 12-31-2015, 04:53 AM   #25
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Cool Imho...

1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
While this system looks very easy to assemble, what about the length of the legs going into the ever deepening water?
Depending on the location, leg adjustments would only need to be done on its first installation.

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2) The left dock below appears to be a "hybrid" dock (black arrow at lower right), but constructed of concrete instead of pilings.


While the lifting chain appears to be an adequate size, its single end attachment should be better spread to two or more points to reduce stress over winter, IMHO. (Use the red arrows as the minimum of two attachment points).

The white arrows point to the supports which should be shortened at least one foot at their bottoms. (They're too long, and close to the water). Each can receive wind-driven waves that cause great stress through a heavy ice-buildup resembling a four-foot white doughnut!

.
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Old 01-02-2016, 02:34 PM   #26
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The docks could be pulled up a LOT higher. I usually go up to a 45 degree angle relative to the tangent line of the earth. This gets the legs way out of the water, and also reduces (considerably) the pull on the cable and stress on the dock in general.

Just a thought...
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Old 01-03-2016, 07:46 AM   #27
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Default Docks

That previous picture was an old picture. This how the docks are this winter. Higher and supported better. But thank you for the suggestions, they were good ones!
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:25 PM   #28
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I have seen all types of ideas and priced out many of them... A few years back when I thought my dock might be doomed..... Fortunately my dock was not doomed and is still working fine.....

What I have learned is the following.... You can put down a bunch of cash and get a very Rigid Aluminum frame articulating dock, like some here have described and pictured here. And certainly for some this is the best solution for a variety of reasons.

You can do what I have done for years, I have a 24 ish foot section that I winch up... that was built incredibly strong with 4 x 8 x 24' wood beams by the previous owners, and then add a couple of sections to the end.... this gets me out to 36 feet for good water depth....

You can go with aluminum section docks... less costly but still damaging to the pocket.....

What my research showed me was I could build section out of wood and make them light enough so as to not feel like the Aluminum section dock was giving me any advantage.... yep I would need more sections.... but I can build them light by cutting them to 6' vs 8'..... and using steel pipe legs, or removable 4x4 posts....as well as removable floor boards

I also realized I could rebuild my 24' section reasonably with minimal cost as well re-using the decking and posts....

Bottom line, don't think Aluminum is the best option.... Also don't think the entire dock needs to be articulating.... with my 24' section I can put my boat in, at ice out if I want and add my additional 2 sections as time allows and weather allows.....(note I have on 8' section, and one 6' section)...... some day I will shorten the 8 footer, and build an additional 6' section so that I am out my full 40 allowed feet.
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:40 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
While this system looks very easy to assemble, what about the length of the legs going into the ever deepening water?
This you add additional cross braces in the deeper water.... they have that information on their web page..... actually the have a lot of information on their website.... except no pricing information.
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