Sunfish

[solargirl]

I am looking for a Sunfish (with a trailer) for my son. All help is appreciated as this is a new venture for me.

[Coolbreeze]

Great boat, check craigs list for some.

[NoBozo]

Please forgive my bluntness. Forget the Sunfish. Get a LASER. It's a real step up from Sunfish and a Superior performing boat.

If you are confined to a racing Class due to "Club" rules....then that is a different situation. If your Club says Sunfish..then that's fine, go with Sunfish. NB

[ApS]

A new Sunfish costs $3300, less sales tax; however, there are many perfectly-good Sunfish languishing in back yards and garages.

Be patient, as millions have learned how to enjoy sailing in this stable sailboat and there are hundreds of thousands of Sunfish around. For a freshwater boat, offer $500—and work from there. I'd skip the occasional Alcort-built Mini-fish and Super-Sunfish as discontinued "orphans". (Parts availability ).

Try a "Looking-for" advertisement HERE at this forum.

1) Look for a genuine Alcort Sunfish: There have been many "knock-offs" sold with the Sunfish logo copied on the sail. Clonefish (though inexpensive) are just simply inferior designs and can discourage a beginning sailor. (Discouraging too, is improperly rigging this very simple sail—note the "improper-rigging" photo at Wikipedia.).

2) Many have seen abuse. A leaking hull will cause the interior to absorb water, making for a very heavy—and unresponsive—boat. Take along a bathroom scale: the hull should weigh close to its original 134 pounds.

If your son is handy, the boat can be dried-out by cutting a round port in the deck. Ports sell for about $10 each and, although not part of the original design, one or two ports in the hull is an indicator of a knowledgeable owner.

3) One caution: a NH "dealer" is a frequent Craigslist advertiser, but charges about double the going rate for Sunfish—and parts. If you're willing to travel, there are Sunfish for sale at http://www.sunfishforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=131. The home page at www.sunfishforums.com has decades of Sunfish experience to draw from, but answers can be gruff if the "Search" function isn't used.

(For such a basic boat, there are too many repetitive questions asked every day).

4) Parts: Sunfish manufactured since 1972 have a superior rudder system. The year can be "teased out" among the numbers at the transom's upper-right corner. If there are no numbers, the boat is old or has had a serious repair.

Rudders, sails and daggerboards cost about $150 each—if missing. (So if you find a complete Sunfish for $450, you've already got your money back. )

A Sunfish with a five- or six-digit "race-number" on the sail has probably seen competition (and good care). A clear-vinyl "window" is a plus.

5) Inexpensive wood-built Sunfish are still around as original—or as "kit-built"; again, the maintenance required by wood construction requires some "handiness" on the part of the new owner.

6) Figure on $100 for a trailer if the boat doesn't come with one. (A new trailer is under $300). Some sellers are offering trailers that hold two or more Sunfish. (What I would look for). The Sunfish cockpit accommodates one adult OK, but can be cramped with two.

7) Parts are available from APS. (Annapolis Performance Sailing—not ApS).

It's great fun to practice one's sailing skills (and race tactics) among identical boats. After a 1½-mile race, the following photo shows a friend arriving at the dock—second to last.

[SAMIAM]

Bet my Kestrel would beat your laser..........

[fatlazyless]

craigslist NH has a nice looking $300 blue & white, 1960's fixer-upper Sunfish down in Nashua/Milford. Could be time to relive the 1960's while having all that fun of sanding, priming, painting, and fiberglassing, and renaming the new family yacht...

Fay's and Irwin's carry lots of genuine Sunfish replacement parts.

Sunfish is an excellent non-tippy, starter boat before moving up to a more dynamic and faster, same size 13' boat like a Laser or Force 5 or something.

[DBA]

We have the above sail boat on Rattlesnake with a Holsclaw trailer. Boat is 1979 with all working parts. Looking for $600 for both. PM if interested.
DBA

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

Please forgive my bluntness. Forget the Sunfish. Get a LASER. It's a real step up from Sunfish and a Superior performing boat.

If you are confined to a racing Class due to "Club" rules....then that is a different situation. If your Club says Sunfish..then that's fine, go with Sunfish. NB

We have a Laser- great boat!

[Winnipesaukee]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Bet my Kestrel would beat your laser..........

Bet it can't!

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee

Bet it can't!

Lotsa talk ... how much walk ? Time for some match races at the next Winni Forum Fest !!! For those w/o boats ... it'll water walking balls @ 50 yards.



Or perhaps cardboard canoes ...

[VitaBene]

Cardboard Canoes MnM?? How about Concrete instead! http://www.wit.edu/WITnews/2007/2007-04-30_concrete.asp

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Ports sell for about $10 each

APS, any pointers to a source for these ports?

Thanks

[fatlazyless]

Fay's has screw in, two piece ports & other marinas have ports too. Port or portals come in black, white, clear, and a couple-three different sizes.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Cardboard Canoes MnM?? How about Concrete instead!

While concrete has it good points, I'm thinking that when the canoe sinks and you're required to fish it out, a cardboard canoe presents a wee bit less difficulties than would a concrete canoe. Which, as we all can envision, would be a female dog to retrieve from the bottom.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

APS, any pointers to a source for these ports?

Thanks

Bradley's Hardware in Wolfeboro.

My choice (while seated at the computer) would be on-line at APS (no connection with ApS).

http://www.apsltd.com/c-4513-inspectionports.aspx

As shown at the above link, special protective bags can be attached inside the port to keep keys or camera out of the way—yet protected and secure. (Drink holders available, too). My next port will be a 6"/100mm diameter Holt & Allen:



It's a bayonet mount that will accommodate curved decks easily.

Any port larger than 6" can be difficult to open: anything smaller should be mounted exactly one inside-elbow-to-palm length from any anticipated repair. (Say, rudder or bow handle).

To open access to the sealed rear compartment, older Sunfish can benefit from a vertical port in the cockpit. And while you're at it—for installing desired deck hardware, drying, and inspecting the daggerboard trunk—all Sunfish could use a forward cockpit port.

For powerboats, installing a port vertically can provide a handy access to panels adjacent to gauges, steering, and electronics.

[ApS]

Now, it seems, you can extend your Sunfish season (the Sunfish sail, anyway) onto Lake Winnipesaukee's snowless ice season.

Come to think of it, that's a lot of "tuneable" sail area. 100-MPH, anybody?

[Bear Island South]

We just purchased a sunfish yesterday from Craigslists, the prior owner indicated it was probably 35 years old, is there any way to determine the age?

It is in decent shape but needs a little TLC and some fiberglass work. Can the bow handle be replaced, should I drill new holes or can the old one be reused? How much fiberglass needs to be removed to repair the crack?

I appreciate and recommendations. Thanks.

[fatlazyless]

....nice look'n boat....for determining the year....there might be a big long number stamped into the lower right hand corner of the stern transom and the last two digits such as "74" would indicate the year......and how much money did you have to shell out for this beautifull Sunfish.....if you don't mind me asking?...by the way...Heath's Hardware Store carries some real good, professional do-it-yourselfer style, fiberglass repair items....plus courtesy hardware store coffee...

[Bear Island South]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

....nice look'n boat....for determining the year....there might be a big long number stamped into the lower right hand corner of the stern transom and the last two digits such as "74" would indicate the year......and how much money did you have to shell out for this beautifull Sunfish.....if you don't mind me asking?...by the way...Heath's Hardware Store carries some real good, professional do-it-yourselfer style, fiberglass repair items....plus courtesy hardware store coffee...

Thanks - $395 well worth it as the racing sail is $400 brand new, we have been tracking a few others on CL in the $600-$800 range

[Bear Island South]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

...for determining the year....there might be a big long number stamped into the lower right hand corner of the stern transom and the last two digits such as "74" would indicate the year...

Right on FLL, I just checked, number indicated 1978 (32 years)
Thanks.

[NoRegrets]

Go to the Irwin Marine ship store. They carry Sunfish and have all the parts you may need to "refresh" your new vessel. I am sure your dreams will be met. I hope you post your learnings with the sailboat......

Can't wait for ice out!

[Lucky1]

We are lucky to have acquired an old 77 sunfish with a Highlander trailer. This thread brought it to mind. Seem to recall hearing a small amount of water in the hull and thinking we would need to have someone look at it to see what would be required to have that fixed. Do not see any holes but there must be some way the water got in there. Are there people who come to the cottage or???? I think it is in pretty good shape in general and has been garaged. Any help would be appreciated.

It is one of several old boats that need to get back in the water. Not interested in selling them.

Just saw a kayak and a power boat go by!! Spring has sprung.

[NoBozo]

Here's a link to the people who have built Sunfish for the last many years. Located in Portsmouth, RI. They also build Laser and a few other popular small sailboats. You can also see PRICES of new boats just for curiousity.

http://watercraftportal.com/db_clients/30.php

If you are getting water in the hull, the first place I would look would be the hull to deck joint. I would turn the hull upside down and have a close look at the hull to deck joint (under the rub rail) for cracks running fore and aft. If the boat has ever made a Hard Landing next to a dock you may see an indentation in the rubrail at the point of impact..which may have caused a crack where water could enter the hull when the boat is dragging the rail in the water under sail. NB

[fatlazyless]

Here's my method for fixing water leaks in an old fiberglass hull......don't even try, as there's probably too many leaks all along the seams or hidden away somewhere to find. For $12-16, VIP Auto sells black rubber inner tubes for pivkup trucks, atv's, lawn & garden equipment, and the inner tube(s) get placed into the hull and inflated, doing double service of extra flotation and adding some structural support to a tired fiberglass hull.

Plus, it's way less work than fixing the leaks, plus you know immediately if the inner tubes's flotation is sound with a visual or touch test. You know that had the Titantic used this inner tube plan, it never would have been sunk! Probably, ditto for the 26' Cobalt too. Probaby three or four $15.00 inner tubes could have keep the big money Cobalt from sinking into the deep water.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

"...We are lucky to have acquired an old 77 sunfish with a Highlander trailer. This thread brought it to mind. Seem to recall hearing a small amount of water in the hull and thinking we would need to have someone look at it to see what would be required to have that fixed. Do not see any holes but there must be some way the water got in there. Are there people who come to the cottage or...????"

HERE is an excellent "travelogue" on repairing fiberglass in general and Sunfish in particular. You can still enjoy sailing a heavy Sunfish, but it takes some of the "edge" off of sailing to carry this "invisible passenger".

I recommend repairs using two-part epoxy. It's almost fun to do—and before long, you'll start looking to repair everything with it—a lot like cleaning with a new pressure-cleaner!)

If you can hear water inside, you've got too much water. The reinforcing foam-adhesive inside will absorb water to create a 130-pound sponge.

The fix is to use a saber-saw to cut a 6" port—centering the hole behind the splash guard. (See above on ports). Opening the port periodically will allow excess moisture to exit from inside—though a really heavy Sunfish will take weeks of attentive drying. A port takes a couple of hours to install, has only a little negative effect on deck strength, and doesn't affect racing eligibility.

The bow handle is available for $28 from APS. (Annapolis Performance Sailing—I find it very easy to remember ). The remaining screws are holding onto a backing plate made of plywood. Replace the bow handle with the hull upside-down (or one screw at a time) to keep the plate from falling inside and out of reach. ["clunk"]

A corroded bow handle is an indication of salt water use. Except for sail grommets, spars and spar rivets, saltwater's not really a problem for a Sunfish.

[NoBozo]

Excellent "Travelogue" APS. I wasn't aware the Sunfish had foam inside that absorbs water. One thing that can't be ignored...If the boat is WET, it has a LEAK and there is absolutely no sense in Drying Out the boat if you are not going to fix the leak.

Before I read the travelogue I would have been inclined to pull the deck off the boat and renew the deck to hull SEAL**...which no one in the travelogue suggested, that I noticed. Most were even reluctant to pull off the rub rail....never mind the deck.

IF..and a BIG IF.. the leak is as simple as a screw hole needing new bedding under some hardware.... I thought about the bailer as well, maybe all is not lost. I would NOT pay someone to take on this job. It will be a money pit in a 1977 boat. NB

**Note: Is the Deck To Hull Joint glassed, epoxied, or 5200..?? Hopefully ...None Of The Above.

[NoBozo]

Since I live only a few miles from the Vangard plant, I stopped by this afternoon to ask some questions. Not only were my questions answered but I got the complete factory tour to boot. They build about 1000 Sunfish a year at this plant...not to mention Laser and a few other models.

Here's what I found. Todays Sunfish is Totally Bulletproof.

Once the hull is laid up, and cured, the BOTTOM of the dagger board trunk is glassed into the hull along with the mast step/tube. Then there are 6 pieces of precut..beveled blocks of Styrofoam glued in to the bottom of the open hull. All the deck hardware is backed up with aluminum plates 1/8" thick by about 2 by 3 inches.

The inverted cockpit footwell is glassed on to the upside down deck...still on a jig to keep its shape.

Next, the TOP of the dagger board trunk, mast/step tube, and the rolled hull to deck joint are coated with a kind of thickened polyester resin. At the same time, a different adhesive is liberally applied to the top of Styrofoam blocks that were previously cemented to the hull

Then the deck is lowered onto the hull and Clamped all the way around the rub rail with clamps every two or three inches.

The Hull and Deck have now become an Inseperable UNIT..with the mast tube, dagger board trunk, AND Styrofoam tying everything all together..top and bottom. Todays boats do not have the aluminum rubrail anymore.

Once everything is cured, the hull is pressure tested with LP compressed air to check for leaks. They use a spritzer bottle with soapy water to find any leaks.

There is No wood or foam Coring in the hull and the hull thicknes at the cockpit drain looks about 3/8 of an inch thick.

If you are Sunfish or Laser fan this tour is worth a trip. They were also building Lasers on another line. NB

ADD: If you already have the rest of the rig, you can buy Just The Hull.

[Winnipesaukee]

On top of what APS said, I find the best method to getting the water out is installing an inspection port then using a knife to cut out all the foam (or as much as you can get out), because otherwise it will take months to completely dry out. And the stuff closest to the the port will dry out, leaving foam in the very fore and aft wet, messing up your weight distribution and REALLY slowing the boat down. So it is just best to take it all out.

Then leave the port open for a week and let the rest of the water dry out of the empty hull.

One of my buddy did this to an old Laser he got. Then he put packing peanuts in the hull. He sealed the hull before sailing it, so the peanuts haven't been tested yet.

You can also use ping pong balls!

[John A. Birdsall]

in 1967-68 I was stationed in Qui Nhon Vietnam on harbor patrol survailence, we had about 5 or 6 16' boston whalers that they were constantly having fiberglass repairs. they would sand down the areas to where they got good glass, then put new noodles (shipping noodles, or snowman poop) in the hull and start with glass and start building a solid hull. They could not put anything over paint, the paint had to be gone. I did the hull of my sailboat the same way. Had a big crack. it takes a little patience to do this and not be in a hurry. It seems that the sanding between polly coats makes a difference with a sail over a motor boat. I went about a foot beyond each side of the crack and sanded it down, not thru. and proceeded. I don't think that it takes a spelcialist to do the job. Just read instructions.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee

On top of what APS said, I find the best method to getting the water out is installing an inspection port then using a knife to cut out all the foam (or as much as you can get out), because otherwise it will take months to completely dry out. And the stuff closest to the the port will dry out, leaving foam in the very fore and aft wet, messing up your weight distribution and REALLY slowing the boat down. So it is just best to take it all out.

Then leave the port open for a week and let the rest of the water dry out of the empty hull.

One of my buddy did this to an old Laser he got. Then he put packing peanuts in the hull. He sealed the hull before sailing it, so the peanuts haven't been tested yet.

You can also use ping pong balls!

SO is that a Sunfish submerged in the picture..? Looks kinda big.. NB