Bahre Property Sold

[fatlazyless]

That's all just conjecture about what will get built here, so just have to wait.

Off the top of my head, just guessing here that for the Town of Alton, a property has to be valued at about $750,000 to receive an annual property tax bill total of $10,001. or more. Probably, condo town houses would be way below $750,000. but maybe not?

You never know but maybe the big mansion house gets re-constructed inside into three or four smaller condo units ….. is possible? And they could call it The Big House at Long View along with a row of townhouses out back, in what is now a large grass lawn area with some super nice waterfront.


Working it with a construction loan from a friendly banker for 12%/yr?


To see it up close, go to a map for 'clay point, Alton NH' and snoop around with Google Earth.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

That's all just conjecture about what will get built here, so just have to wait.

Off the top of my head, just guessing here that for the Town of Alton, a property has to be valued at about $750,000 to receive an annual property tax bill total of $10,001. or more. Probably, condo town houses would be way below $750,000. but maybe not?

You never know but maybe the big mansion house gets re-constructed inside into three or four smaller condo units ….. is possible? And they could call it The Big House at Long View along with a row of townhouses out back, in what is now a large grass lawn area with some super nice waterfront.


Working it with a construction loan from a friendly banker for 12%/yr?


To see it up close, go to a map for 'clay point, Alton NH' and snoop around with Google Earth.

These are second or third homes for most people so I'm sure all their property tax bills combined would exceed 10K. So I doubt this 10K write off limit would have any affect on prices at all. Rich people want what they want because they have the means.
Besides, President Trump has given the rich other tax breaks that will more than offset that deduction cap.

[tis]

From the Laconia Sun:

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While the property is assessed for tax purposes at $23,109,500, it is being offered for sale for $17.8 million — $31.2 million less than the $49 million asking price when it first went on the market four years ago. Two years ago the Bahres cut the asking price in half to $25.8 million.

Based on the current Alton tax rate of $12.86 per $1,000 of assessed value, the Bahres paid $309,280.17 in property tax. On July 30, the town of Alton reduced the assessment on the property by $936,400 and refunded the Bahres $12,092 they had paid on their 2017 tax bill.

I told you it was a LOT more than 60,000 a year! Now do you believe me?
I remember being told a long time ago he paid a thousand dollars a day in just property taxes to live there.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by tis

From the Laconia Sun:

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While the property is assessed for tax purposes at $23,109,500, it is being offered for sale for $17.8 million — $31.2 million less than the $49 million asking price when it first went on the market four years ago. Two years ago the Bahres cut the asking price in half to $25.8 million.

Based on the current Alton tax rate of $12.86 per $1,000 of assessed value, the Bahres paid $309,280.17 in property tax. On July 30, the town of Alton reduced the assessment on the property by $936,400 and refunded the Bahres $12,092 they had paid on their 2017 tax bill.

I told you it was a LOT more than 60,000 a year! Now do you believe me?
I remember being told a long time ago he paid a thousand dollars a day in just property taxes to live there.

Most people would be happy to make the amount of money he paid in taxes on a yearly basis.

[codeman671]

Someone absolutely stole it for $5.6mil. Look at some of the Governors Island properties and what they are going for. Bahre must have really wanted out of the place. I am sure he took a HUGE hit on it.

[Descant]

I doubt Mr. Bahre files only a Form 1040 and a few supplement pages. Trying to make his taxes relate to those filing a 1040-EZ just won't work. Skim through the assessment data base for lakeside properties and see how many are owned by trusts of various types, LLC's, other corporation types and partnerships. Many, many. Must be some reason, not all part of the attorney- CPA-CFP relief program.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Descant

I doubt Mr. Bahre files only a Form 1040 and a few supplement pages. Trying to make his taxes relate to those filing a 1040-EZ just won't work. Skim through the assessment data base for lakeside properties and see how many are owned by trusts of various types, LLC's, other corporation types and partnerships. Many, many. Must be some reason, not all part of the attorney- CPA-CFP relief program.

I own my home in an LLC for many reasons including making the transfer much easier to my children after I pass and for tax purposes

[jazzman]

I imagine any plans to develop the property beyond it's current use would be very hotly contested. The neighbors (including the virtual neighbors just across the channel on Barndoor Island) already put up with years of noise when the original property was built. The town later denied the request to build a large building for Mr Baher's auto collection. I don't know if the current zoning would allow condos in the location or not. Hopefully the new owner just wants to live large on the lake or maybe rent it out as a corporate retreat

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Descant

I doubt Mr. Bahre files only a Form 1040 and a few supplement pages. Trying to make his taxes relate to those filing a 1040-EZ just won't work. Skim through the assessment data base for lakeside properties and see how many are owned by trusts of various types, LLC's, other corporation types and partnerships. Many, many. Must be some reason, not all part of the attorney- CPA-CFP relief program.

In the simplest of terms...

These are legal maneuvers people are taking to legally protect an asset such as a piece of property or any asset of significant value. It does NOT free them from tax liability or make the taxes being paid any less. The trust, LLC, LLP, corporation or owner in whatever legal format it is defined must pay the same taxes as everyone else at the same rate. In fact most trusts are established simply for the purposes of augmenting a will to pass assets to beneficiaries avoiding any kind of probate or lawsuit claiming a right of ownership outside what is defined within the trust itself. Nothing nefarious here, in fact in today's overly litigious society it's almost a necessity.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

In the simplest of terms...

These are legal maneuvers people are taking to legally protect an asset such as a piece of property or any asset of significant value. It does NOT free them from tax liability or make the taxes being paid any less. The trust, LLC, LLP, corporation or owner in whatever legal format it is defined must pay the same taxes as everyone else at the same rate. In fact most trusts are established simply for the purposes of augmenting a will to pass assets to beneficiaries avoiding any kind of probate or lawsuit claiming a right of ownership outside what is defined within the trust itself. Nothing nefarious here, in fact in today's overly litigious society it's almost a necessity.

I agree that the taxes must be paid. It's been a long time since I took accounting 101, but I was thinking more of business expenses that are deductible. Doesn't the 10;000 cap apply to individuals, not businesses? If I am a partner and we share the tax so my share is applied to my $10,000 cap, not to that of the partnership if there is a cap for them? I believe I could also transfer the property to my charitable foundation as long as the use falls within those legal parameters. When you reach this level, don't you have teams of CPA's and attorneys, not just some guy who does my taxes?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

In the simplest of terms...

These are legal maneuvers people are taking to legally protect an asset such as a piece of property or any asset of significant value. It does NOT free them from tax liability or make the taxes being paid any less. The trust, LLC, LLP, corporation or owner in whatever legal format it is defined must pay the same taxes as everyone else at the same rate. In fact most trusts are established simply for the purposes of augmenting a will to pass assets to beneficiaries avoiding any kind of probate or lawsuit claiming a right of ownership outside what is defined within the trust itself. Nothing nefarious here, in fact in today's overly litigious society it's almost a necessity.

Not exactly, Corp and LLC tax rates have been lowered so if you're in a high tax bracket then you would pay less in Federal income taxes. The property tax bill would be the same but you can lower your overall tax liability with a Corp or LLC.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Not exactly, Corp and LLC tax rates have been lowered so if you're in a high tax bracket then you would pay less in Federal income taxes. The property tax bill would be the same but you can lower your overall tax liability with a Corp or LLC.

True but you are mixing property taxes with income taxes which are in no way related in the context of how much any entity pays specifically in property taxes.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

True but you are mixing property taxes with income taxes which are in no way related in the context of how much any entity pays specifically in property taxes.

I understand that but the reason people use LLC's and Corps is for liability and overall tax burden purposes, esp now that Trump changed the tax laws. As I was reading this thread I think overall tax burden as well as the 10K tax deduction was being brought up.

[Sleezstak]

I find reading this post taxing.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Sleezstak

I find reading this post taxing.

Property taxing or income taxing?

[Sleezstak]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Property taxing or income taxing?

Just all of it. Starting to think maybe I should start paying them.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

True but you are mixing property taxes with income taxes which are in no way related in the context of how much any entity pays specifically in property taxes.

I saw the relationship in how to get a better deal i.e. where the $10K cap fits into your plans or if you can avoid it on your income tax, whether it be personal or business. Looks like the answer is, there are some options.

[fatlazyless]

You know ..... without doing much of anything in the way of re-construction .... this totally huge home has seven large bedrooms and a lot of bathrooms and a very nice kitchen with a huge refrigerator.

Why not turn it into a vacation rooming house, with linens, towels, an old canoe and kayak or two, and kitchen privileges included.

Attach a black marker pen on a 36" string to the edge of the frig, and let residents know they should label what is theirs; like milk, bagels, ice cream, yogurt, Marie Callender frozen $2.50 turkey pot pies .... to keep it a happy rooming house ..... the LONG VIEW Rooming House ...... come visit the famous Lake Winnipesaukee rooming house with the long view ..... for a single day, two days, three days, whatever, or a 7-day stretch, ..... as available.

And, what's the price per day, to stay overnight at Long View? Have to work that pricing out, over time, through trial and error ...... and just go with the flow? But, keep the price low to keep the occupancy high, and limit the stay to seven days per year, or something???

[tis]

I don't know if it shows in the pictures, but I thought it already had a second kitchen. So you don't have to share if it does. No markers, no strings.

[JEEPONLY]

Would a seven day rental be considered short-term?- and therefore controversial?

[Descant]

I think anything less than six months is short term and requires that you pay the 9% Room and Meals tax. Short term may not be allowed depending on zoning in any given town.
Long discussion here"
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...hlight=rentals

[Descant]

$5.6MM, 30 years, 365 days/year is only $21 per hour. Plus tax and tip, of course.
My friend in Rindge will rent his castle, private lake, 500 acres.
https://www.vrbo.com/240837ha

[MAXUM]

Since there seems to be some confusion as to what value a property's assessed value should be....

As defined by the state:

Rev 901.11 “Fair market value” means the price property would command if:



(a) Sold by a seller who is willing, but not compelled, to sell; and



(b) Purchased by a purchaser who is willing, but not compelled, to purchase.

[fatlazyless]

Looking at the photo on google earth, it seems like a sure bet that another huge, super-duper waterfront mansion home will get built on what was the junior's softball field and is now the large grass lawn to the left of the big house.

Plus, some townhouse condos with deeded docks and waterfront could be happening for the center lawn area which was formerly, the www.CampAlton.com seniors baseball field and sprinter's track area.

During Capture the Flag Day-1964, I landed at the camp infirmary with some bloody chest scrapes, having missed a flying tackle on the hard pack sprinter's track area, there. Can remember getting bandaged up by the camp nurse, and that was the end of Capture the Flag for me, on that sunny, hot day in August. It was two intense months of Gray vs Green color war, and the Green team will bury those Grays!

Buy it with financed $5.5-mil, sell it all for $16.5-mil, 1-2-3 years later ..... and everybody ...... friendly banker, busy developer and sharpie town assessor is very happy .... amen!

[Top-Water]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Since there seems to be some confusion as to what value a property's assessed value should be....

As defined by the state:

Rev 901.11 “Fair market value” means the price property would command if:

(a) Sold by a seller who is willing, but not compelled, to sell; and

(b) Purchased by a purchaser who is willing, but not compelled, to purchase.

The above is supposedly the law ....... but reality is below

[tis]

That's a good one Top and just about right!!