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Old 10-07-2020, 09:49 AM   #1
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Default Condo Fees

Do you own a Condo or a Townhouse?
What is you fee and what are the amenities?
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Old 10-07-2020, 09:55 AM   #2
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$450 p.m. includes grounds maintenance, exterior of buildings, landscaping, 2 pools, 2 fitness centers, association insurance, 2 clubhouses, tennis courts. This is for a 2/2 unit with garage.
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Old 10-07-2020, 09:59 AM   #3
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Do you own a Condo or a Townhouse?
What is you fee and what are the amenities?
Did you want only Lakes Region answers or wherever people own?

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Old 10-07-2020, 10:11 AM   #4
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This a good topic. Please list the name of your condo complex when you respond. The only ones I know of are from real estate listing. Windwood Harbor is $685 pm, Jonathans Landing $775pm and Lands End $1050pm.
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Old 10-07-2020, 10:36 AM   #5
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Did you want only Lakes Region answers or wherever people own?

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I am open for anything.
Any input is better than none.

I think admin wants to restrict the chatter to the Lakes Region only.
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Old 10-07-2020, 11:37 AM   #6
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Default condo fees

Country Village, Gilford, $475.00/mo Snow removal, sand walk snow removable and summer landscaping

Last edited by radioman; 10-07-2020 at 11:42 AM. Reason: add dumpster svc
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Old 10-07-2020, 12:15 PM   #7
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Understand these fees cover costs, but wow! Big turn off for those looking at a condominium. And to think these costs just keep rising.


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Old 10-07-2020, 12:22 PM   #8
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I am open for anything.
Any input is better than none.

I think admin wants to restrict the chatter to the Lakes Region only.
I guess I was wondering if you were looking at condos in the area and wanted to get a quick glimpse of costs or just an interesting topic.

I'll say that the one above for $1000+/mth. must be absurdly beautifulóthat's more than my mortgage!

Arcadia Campground (a condo association), for the record, is $1300/year, but it's only seasonal (May 1st to October 28th).

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Old 10-07-2020, 12:27 PM   #9
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I guess I was wondering if you were looking at condos in the area and wanted to get a quick glimpse of costs or just an interesting topic.

I'll say that the one above for $1000+/mth. must be absurdly beautiful—that's more than my mortgage!

Arcadia Campground (a condo association), for the record, is $1300/year, but it's only seasonal (May 1st to October 28th).

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Thank you, we already have one.
I am just being nosey.

$1300 is a bit overkill, I think.
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Old 10-07-2020, 12:30 PM   #10
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Thank you, we already have one.
I enjoy being informed, just like you do on Jet Skis and perhaps other stuff.
Rock on. Certainly surprised me to see some of these fees. Cheers, friend!

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Old 10-07-2020, 03:21 PM   #11
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Default other types of condos?

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Thank you, we already have one.
I am just being nosey.

$1300 is a bit overkill, I think.
$1300 per YEAR doesn't sound so bad. MVYC is $2000 per year. Two beaches, bath houses, laundry, discount at gas dock; landscaping, un-metered water and electricity and free outdoor winter storage. MVYC does not have a clubhouse, unlike some of the other boat condos. I'm curious what other boat condos offer.
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Old 10-07-2020, 03:35 PM   #12
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$1300 per YEAR doesn't sound so bad. MVYC is $2000 per year. Two beaches, bath houses, laundry, discount at gas dock; landscaping, un-metered water and electricity and free outdoor winter storage. MVYC does not have a clubhouse, unlike some of the other boat condos. I'm curious what other boat condos offer.
Yeah, it's $1300 per year, but the camp needs to be maintained year-round and includes landscaping/road maintenance, six bathhouses with laundry, two tennis courts, a basketball court, fields, beaches, playground, rec. hall and patio with grills and furniture, fishing docks, common green with furniture...

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Old 10-07-2020, 03:41 PM   #13
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Unless you get into details it is hard to compare condo fees. I have enjoyed condo living for my primary residence for over 10 years now. And I love it because I don't have to worry about so many things that owning a house would entail. So I am able to go to the lake more often, with out the fear that I am falling behind with yard work etc.

Some condo fees include things like Trash removal, cable and internet access, exercise rooms, pools etc. While others do not or only offer a subset of these features or none at all.

I currently own two condo's... The fees differ by around $150 per month. Both places have pools, tennis courts, basketball courts and handle trash and recycling... The more expensive place includes in the fee in addition to those things, a exercise room, basic cable and internet, Full time on-site maintenance and property management, a club house, volleyball and horseshoe pits, and even a garden area where you can rent a plot for the season.

If you look at a couple of the high priced fees mentioned here, you have to view the perspective:

Jonathans Landing $775pm -- has a beautiful Marina and beach area and lots of water front

Lands End $1050pm -- also has a nice Marina area w/ beach and considerable water front.

What is the docking and beach facilities worth... for a smaller tax bill because you only own a small portion of them.

Condo's aren't for everyone, and if I didn't have the property on the water in NH, I probably wouldn't own a condo. But because I do, it allows me to spend more time there....
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Old 10-07-2020, 03:45 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Descant View Post
$1300 per YEAR doesn't sound so bad. MVYC is $2000 per year. Two beaches, bath houses, laundry, discount at gas dock; landscaping, un-metered water and electricity and free outdoor winter storage. MVYC does not have a clubhouse, unlike some of the other boat condos. I'm curious what other boat condos offer.
OK I did not pay enough attention.
I thought it was $ 1300 per month.
$ 1300 per year is nothing.
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Old 10-07-2020, 03:56 PM   #15
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Yeah, it's $1300 per year, but the camp needs to be maintained year-round and includes landscaping/road maintenance, six bathhouses with laundry, two tennis courts, a basketball court, fields, beaches, playground, rec. hall and patio with grills and furniture, fishing docks, common green with furniture...

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This is actually a hell of a deal (I know the camp thinkxingu is part of).... at 1300 per year, that is just over $100 per month. Not bad for access to the lake.... considering you not going to get a boat slip or even valet for the season for that price. even if you calculate the short season May - Oct. of 6 months, that is only $200 dollars per month, to have access to the lake... hell you can't beat that....just a weekend at a campground on a lake is going to $200 - $500 bucks......

The key to these fees is do they keep the place well maintained....and do the perks of ownership offset the cost...
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Old 10-07-2020, 04:05 PM   #16
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I am now depressed.

We are paying $4500 /year.
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Old 10-07-2020, 04:23 PM   #17
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I am now depressed.

We are paying $4500 /year.
But what are you getting for that 4500$ per year? Don't get depressed, unless what you get doesn't equal what you pay...

For instance Lands end, at $1050 per month.... that is 12K per year..... I don't think they could offer enough amenities to get me to pay that!!!!!!!!!!!

4500 per year, or 375 per month... If it got me access to the lake, especially in the form of a nice beach... and they kept the grounds nice, and took care of the building maintenance.... I don't think I would mind at all....

Think about this... My seasonal cottage on the lake has a tax bill of ~5K (note seasonal cottage).... on top of that, I have to pay for trash (or haul it home)... perform maintenance myself, pay for insurance, etc.... all in all the camp costs my family ~7.5K per year. (This includes electric, ins., septic pumping, access road fees)..... Now we are facing the need to paint the camp, which will run that bill up... and in 10 years or so we will need to put on a new roof....the list goes on.... over the 25 years we have owned the camp, my guess is we spend on average 8-9K per year...... But considering a trip to Disney for a family of 4 for one week is going to run you 5-6K.... I consider it worth the money for a summers worth of enjoyment.

Disclaimer If I factor in boat costs, we are looking at even more money... But I would have the boat regardless... so it doesn't matter.... Once a boater always a boater.....
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Old 10-07-2020, 05:00 PM   #18
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Condo association fees are hard to compare.

Consider all the variables that can affect them:
Taxes
Number of units
Capital reserves fee (is yours properly funded?)
Property maintenance
Lawn maintenance
Repairs
Trash
Wifi
Water bills
Sewer bills
Cable TV
Snow removal
Size of Property and area to be maintained
Buildings
Clubhouse
Pool
Docks
Security systems
Water system if private
Management fees
Insurance fees
Etc.

Each is unique, and the more amenities that need to be maintained, the more costs could be shared. If there are more units to share, then the per unit cost is lower than if it's a smaller association.

One of mine is $80 per YEAR! And you wouldn't believe the amount of scrutiny and drama there is over each and every dollar!
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Old 10-07-2020, 07:11 PM   #19
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Do you own there by chance? I have been seriously thinking about going that route. Don't want to hijack this thread you can PM me if easier. Thanks!!

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Yeah, it's $1300 per year, but the camp needs to be maintained year-round and includes landscaping/road maintenance, six bathhouses with laundry, two tennis courts, a basketball court, fields, beaches, playground, rec. hall and patio with grills and furniture, fishing docks, common green with furniture...

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Old 10-07-2020, 07:41 PM   #20
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Do you own there by chance? I have been seriously thinking about going that route. Don't want to hijack this thread you can PM me if easier. Thanks!!
PM sent.

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Old 10-08-2020, 08:38 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post
But what are you getting for that 4500$ per year? Don't get depressed, unless what you get doesn't equal what you pay...

For instance Lands end, at $1050 per month.... that is 12K per year..... I don't think they could offer enough amenities to get me to pay that!!!!!!!!!!!

4500 per year, or 375 per month... If it got me access to the lake, especially in the form of a nice beach... and they kept the grounds nice, and took care of the building maintenance.... I don't think I would mind at all....

Think about this... My seasonal cottage on the lake has a tax bill of ~5K (note seasonal cottage).... on top of that, I have to pay for trash (or haul it home)... perform maintenance myself, pay for insurance, etc.... all in all the camp costs my family ~7.5K per year. (This includes electric, ins., septic pumping, access road fees)..... Now we are facing the need to paint the camp, which will run that bill up... and in 10 years or so we will need to put on a new roof....the list goes on.... over the 25 years we have owned the camp, my guess is we spend on average 8-9K per year...... But considering a trip to Disney for a family of 4 for one week is going to run you 5-6K.... I consider it worth the money for a summers worth of enjoyment.

Disclaimer If I factor in boat costs, we are looking at even more money... But I would have the boat regardless... so it doesn't matter.... Once a boater always a boater.....
That may be true as a homeowner there are carrying costs to consider however YOU have total and complete control over who, what and when things are done.

Associations are notorious for being poorly run and not being terribly cost efficient.

There is no way in hell Lands End is worth 12K a year in association fees. It ain't that pretty. Awful lot of suckers in there stroking checks for that every year.
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Old 10-08-2020, 08:55 AM   #22
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I pay $200/mo here in the Weirs. Only 40 units, just the basics, landscaping/trash/snow.

Pretty well run organization.

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Old 10-08-2020, 10:59 AM   #23
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Do you own a Condo or a Townhouse?
What is you fee and what are the amenities?
Anyone know what the fees are in Suissevale?
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Old 10-08-2020, 11:59 AM   #24
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Anyone know what the fees are in Suissevale?
That should be an easy one. I believe that it used to be $300 quarterly, but my brain isnít 100% on this.
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Old 10-08-2020, 12:46 PM   #25
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That may be true as a homeowner there are carrying costs to consider however YOU have total and complete control over who, what and when things are done.

Associations are notorious for being poorly run and not being terribly cost efficient.

There is no way in hell Lands End is worth 12K a year in association fees. It ain't that pretty. Awful lot of suckers in there stroking checks for that every year.
I fully agree with your statements.
I certainly would not look at places in Lands End with that fee.......

You do have to be very careful when you look at buying into an association. I have learned a lot through my condo adventures. While I have ended up owning in two very well kept and very well managed facilities, there are many that arean't. I would be hugely skeptical of any place where the condo fees are over 300 or four hundred dollars.... Even Johnathan's landing at 700$+ seems not quite right.... But some people want to have access to the water that bad...

When I look at my most recent purchase, I consider the following......
Basic cable and internet is going to be 100$ month easy
Even a Planet fitness membership is 10$ per month -- This associate has a nice little hardly used Gym.
The onsite management and Maintenance crew is very helpful and takes care of most issues very quickly... Pricelless
Trash and recycling is taken care of --- I recall this cost me as a single guy 10-20 $ per month when I had property where I had to pay for that service
A pool in the summer to swim in -- a fancy Gym with that kind of facility would be another 40 or 50 $ per month on top of a basic Gym...

With that said I am at 160$ worth of benefits for my condo fee... which is 440$ per month... 440$ - $160 = 280$

So for 280$ a month, I don't have to own or maintain a lawn mower, worry about when the house needs painting, clapboards replaced or a new roof....and my insurance costs are considerably lower.... A great condo policy is only $200 - $300 per year.

As I have said before it isn't for everyone. If I didn't have a second home be it on a lake or not, where I did have control I might not think that way... But I get to spend more time at the lake, enjoying that place because I own a condo to live in full time...
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Old 10-11-2020, 01:01 PM   #26
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$150 per month in the Weirs. Freestanding home. Clubhouse, pool, trash and road plow and lawn mowing/minimal lawn care.
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Old 10-11-2020, 03:19 PM   #27
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$150 per month in the Weirs. Freestanding home. Clubhouse, pool, trash and road plow and lawn mowing/minimal lawn care.
Have the owners taken over the association? It is not unknown or as developer to run the association keeping the fees low until sales are nearly completed.
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Old 10-11-2020, 03:43 PM   #28
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Have the owners taken over the association? It is not unknown or as developer to run the association keeping the fees low until sales are nearly completed.
No, technically the homeowners have not as of yet. I keep saying that when the builder leaves I bet we will see an increase.
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Old 10-13-2020, 10:30 AM   #29
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Quote:
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Condo association fees are hard to compare.

Consider all the variables that can affect them:

Capital reserves fee (is yours properly funded?)
So, how does one know if the reserves are properly funded?

Do you know of a formula or a good website to help evaluate?

I own in a ski area HOA which has a long term capital study completed however, given the current need for roads, roofs, etc. there isn't much hope to "put away" much more on an annual basis.

Interested in any insight.
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Old 10-13-2020, 11:06 AM   #30
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usually the association hires a firm to do the assessment. Not needed every year but it will tell based on age of common items( roofs/ roads etc) what the percent vs requirement
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Old 10-13-2020, 12:07 PM   #31
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So, how does one know if the reserves are properly funded?

Do you know of a formula or a good website to help evaluate?

I own in a ski area HOA which has a long term capital study completed however, given the current need for roads, roofs, etc. there isn't much hope to "put away" much more on an annual basis.

Interested in any insight.
Reserve Funding is an interesting topic...

What most banks and lending institutions like to see if they decided to look into it as part of your loan processing is that around 15% of your condo fee goes into the reserve fund.

However this isn't the entire story... Because if a reserve account isn't properly funded, and funds are needed an association has the ability to charge an owner a assessment based on a project funding need. I have often seen this happen when it comes to things like roofing or parking lot paving.

So if you look further not only do you need to look at how much is going into the reserve account but how much is coming out of that reserve account for the upkeep of the property. You want the reserve funds to be in constant state of growth year over year, building up to what will be needed to cover
large expenses like roofing and paving, when they are do to be replaced. If a reserve fund was not properly funded to start with, the contribution to the reserve may need to be higher for a while to get it properly funded...
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Old 10-13-2020, 03:10 PM   #32
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Reserve Funding is an interesting topic...

So if you look further not only do you need to look at how much is going into the reserve account but how much is coming out of that reserve account for the upkeep of the property. You want the reserve funds to be in constant state of growth year over year, building up to what will be needed to cover
large expenses like roofing and paving, when they are do to be replaced. If a reserve fund was not properly funded to start with, the contribution to the reserve may need to be higher for a while to get it properly funded...
So, you just described the way this entire country works.... right? Am I missing something with this particular business model?
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Old 10-14-2020, 07:56 AM   #33
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Maybe this can help

https://www.seacoastonline.com/busin...y-ndash-part-i
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Old 10-14-2020, 08:09 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by MeEscape View Post
So, how does one know if the reserves are properly funded?

Do you know of a formula or a good website to help evaluate?

I own in a ski area HOA which has a long term capital study completed however, given the current need for roads, roofs, etc. there isn't much hope to "put away" much more on an annual basis.

Interested in any insight.
The problem is that most want to keep condo fees artificially low, so they don't properly fund a reserve account. Then when work is needed, they do a special assessment. This has been considered unfair and possibly illegal now, as newer owners are forced to pay for the financial sins of older owners that chose to keep their savings down in an attempt to keep costs down.

Special assessments are to be used for unplanned emergencies, and underfunded reserves are not considered to be an emergency, but rather they are simply poor planning.

Long term maintenance must be considered and saved for. For example, a roof has an expected life span, some types of siding need painting, roads may have a lifespan, heaters have a lifespan. These can and should be planned for, and have savings planned so they can be addressed (replaced or upgraded) when it's needed.

I have done some estimates in the past, but there are professionals that will help you to plan this properly. And using a pro will help you if there is any questions about the validity of such a report.

As an example, if a roof has a lifespan of 25 years, and today it would cost $10K to replace it. Factor in inflation and estimate the cost to replace the roof 25 years from now, then divide by 25 years, you need to save this much per year towards the new roof. Divide by the number of units in the association, and then by 12 to determine the monthly amount that should be in your reserve fund per monthly condo fee, per unit. There is more to it, but this is a rough example.

Of course, the plan can consider using loans or a combination of things to fund needed work. But loans add to the overall costs, but make the monthly payments seem affordable.

Some legal opinions:
https://www.seacoastonline.com/news/...reserve-levels
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Last edited by Rich; 10-14-2020 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 10-14-2020, 09:25 AM   #35
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Rich, what a great summary. Thank you.

Unfortunately some if not most board members do not have the time or the commitment to perform this thankless job.

While they have good intentions, they do not have the time or the energy to research, investigate contractors, landscapers and come up with a good annual budget. Relying on the association managers for recommendations, whom may or may not have the associations best interest.
Have you ever tried to call your association manager for any issue, they are overworked, underpaid 20+ year old’s with little or no experience. I have had personal experience with several local management companies, in my opinion they are nothing but glorified mass mailers with access to an 800 conf call numbers.

This has been my experience.
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Old 10-14-2020, 01:25 PM   #36
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Rich, what a great summary. Thank you.

Unfortunately some if not most board members do not have the time or the commitment to perform this thankless job.

While they have good intentions, they do not have the time or the energy to research, investigate contractors, landscapers and come up with a good annual budget. Relying on the association managers for recommendations, whom may or may not have the associations best interest.
Have you ever tried to call your association manager for any issue, they are overworked, underpaid 20+ year old’s with little or no experience. I have had personal experience with several local management companies, in my opinion they are nothing but glorified mass mailers with access to an 800 conf call numbers.

This has been my experience.
Thank you and yes, I understand and agree, I've been on the BOD of a couple different HOAs as well as other organizations from sizes of 50 to about 3,000 members.

Board members seem to forget that they don't have to do all the work, but they can hire people to do any specific task. It's their responsibility to see things are done, which means they can coordinate, or get help via committees, or pay a pro for help. You don't expect a BOD member to climb a roof and swing a hammer when it's time for a new roof, so why expect them to do everything else?

There are professionals that will help especially with coming up with realistic capital reserve estimates, but but it costs money to pay someone to do the work, and most board members don't want to needlessly spend money, and then think they can do it themselves. It ends up not being done fully and can then be questioned as to if they did a complete job, or swayed the results to fit their own agenda. This is where hiring an unbiased pro can help with the credibility of such a report.
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Old 10-15-2020, 04:29 PM   #37
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Thank you and yes, I understand and agree, I've been on the BOD of a couple different HOAs as well as other organizations from sizes of 50 to about 3,000 members.

Board members seem to forget that they don't have to do all the work, but they can hire people to do any specific task. It's their responsibility to see things are done, which means they can coordinate, or get help via committees, or pay a pro for help. You don't expect a BOD member to climb a roof and swing a hammer when it's time for a new roof, so why expect them to do everything else?

There are professionals that will help especially with coming up with realistic capital reserve estimates, but but it costs money to pay someone to do the work, and most board members don't want to needlessly spend money, and then think they can do it themselves. It ends up not being done fully and can then be questioned as to if they did a complete job, or swayed the results to fit their own agenda. This is where hiring an unbiased pro can help with the credibility of such a report.
So Totally correct a HOA is only as good as the people on the Board of directors, and then only as good as the people the BOD chose to help them execute their job. I have dealt with HOAs, that work well, and those that don't....

Currently the best running HOA I am part of isn't even all that formal. We have a person on the camp road that is willing to coordinate the upkeep of the road. Which is the only HOA responsibility.... He is retired, and interacts with the town and a good contractor... He has been able to keep the road dues at a reasonable level of $125 per year... and over the last 5 years yearly there have been improvements made, and the last time I inquired he had built up a balance in the account he created for the road work.....
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