Performance Boats

[Webbsatwinni]

It was great to see all of the performance boats out in force this weekend. Mix that with the antiques running through the broads and it was like old times!

The sound or roaring engines and no blue lights was music to our ears on rattlesnake! I hope they stay around.

[Greene's Basin Girl]

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

It was great to see all of the performance boats out in force this weekend. Mix that with the antiques running through the broads and it was like old times!

The sound or roaring engines and no blue lights was music to our ears on rattlesnake! I hope they stay around.

I also noticed many smaller boats out in our end of the lake. The boat owners probably thought it would be quiet, but it was heavy boat traffic. There were more bass boats also. I think everyone that had a boat went out for a great ride.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Greene's Basin Girl

I also noticed many smaller boats out in our end of the lake. The boat owners probably thought it would be quiet, but it was heavy boat traffic. There were more bass boats also. I think everyone that had a boat went out for a great ride.

Looks like a bass boat tournament station at Ellacoya Beach. I notice a large number of bass boats this weekend. A great crowd that never to my knowledge cause problems.

[JDeere]

The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!

[jrc]

As much as the crowds can be irritating at times, it was great to have one last taste of summer. Now comes the wind down and then the long dark wait till spring.

[LIforrelaxin]

JDeere,

Are you sure the Performance boats where the problem? All boats make noise at some level.... If you are in a busy area of the lake, there is going to be some noise.... People need to learn to live with it.

If you want a peaceful serene lake then you should look for some place where motor boats period are not allowed.

I live between the long Island bridge, and the six pack.... It is very busy, every weekend.... it also gets loud when several boats are in the area.... The so called GFBL boats, don't even have to be present, for it to be loud.

It lasts for about 2 or 3 hours, I figure my serenity can be interrupted for that long, and if it really irritates me, then I go inside and watch a movie. or read a book...

What I don't do is go and look for some group of boaters to blame the problem on.... This is a busy lake, it isn't always going to be peaceful and serene when people are out on a nice day having fun.

[JDeere]

It was your post that raised the issue. The GFBL's are loud and yes I can always see the offending boat and it is always the performance boat that can be heard over the regular boat noise AND as you know boats are getting less loud versus more.

I fully support MP and their efforts to make sure that the boats sound level falls within the law. Who wants to listen to that???

I am not denigrating the GFBL people although I might be denigrating their boats and their desire to make the ruckus on what is really a small lake.

Finally no I do not have to move to another section of the lake....the GFBL boats simply need to abide by the rules....some do and some do not. Pretty simple.

[BroadHopper]

Loud boats been here since before you are born! I suppose you want to coral them to a reservation like we did to the American Indians! History repeats itself. My old man will never put anything on his HackerCraft just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!

[diz]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Loud boats been here since before you are born! I suppose you want to coral them to a reservation like we did to the American Indians! History repeats itself. My old man will never put anything on his HackerCraft just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!

Did you just compare the treatment of Native Americans to your boat's exhaust? Totally inappropriate.

[Dave R]

I enjoy loud and fast boats going by at high speed. It's interesting and fun to watch, and it's also over pretty quickly. I hate loud boats idling at the dock while I'm trying to have a conversation though. If you have a loud boat at a public dock please shut it down as soon as it's tied up and leave ASAP after you fire it up. Trust me, nobody wants to listen it to it for more than a few seconds. Unless your boat is antique, if it's not fast, please don't make it loud. Loud and slow (<60 MPH) boats are as irritating as loud and slow (<80 MPH in first gear) motorcycles (but fortunately, not as common).

[Webbsatwinni]

The two loudest boats we heard all weekend were two beautiful antiques that were running through the broads on their way to the show. It's too bad that we all can't co exist. Loud performance boats have been on the lake for years, I guess it's too much to ask to be able to live and let live. Live free or die, but do so slowly and quietly!!

I enjoyed the sights and sounds this weekend, no matter how much negativity there is at the lake these days. Enjoy!!!

[Woodsy]

OMG!! People were actually out on the lake and ENJOYING themselves??

You live next to what is essentially a state park and you complain when people actually use it legally! Oh the Horror! People having fun usually make noise of some sort. Your expectation of peace and quiet does not trump the right of the public to enjoy the lake in any lawful manner.

In fact Merrill Faye is a huge anti-noise guy, as is his right. Yet his business routinely sells new boats with thru hull exhaust... go figure!

I have no problem with the noise laws or their enforcement. The MP do a pretty good job given their resources. I do however have problem with them randomly stopping anyone, just because they "think" the boat may be too loud. Ambient noise has a huge effect on how people perceive noise...


Woodsy

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

OMG!! People were actually out on the lake and ENJOYING themselves??

In fact Merrill Faye is a huge anti-noise guy, as is his right. Yet his business routinely sells new boats with thru hull exhaust... go figure!


Woodsy

I looked at a boat a few years back and when I found it was through Fay's, I pulled out and went to a non hypocrite dealer. Go Figure ;-)

Great post btw!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I have no problem with the noise laws or their enforcement. The MP do a pretty good job given their resources. I do however have problem with them randomly stopping anyone, just because they "think" the boat may be too loud.

NHMP officers can't simply "stop" a boat: they need a reason to temporarily stop and detain you. The legal term is "articulable suspicion".

Using the newly-legalized exhaust cut-outs inconsiderately—and in the wrong locations—irks hundreds of peaceable lakeside residents every weekend. Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

Noise is only one of many reasons to detain an offender.



.

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[Donzi Minx]

I posted about a week ago my thoughts on this. When my family still owned an old Chris Craft (almost identical to the boat filmed in On Golden Pond) the old flat head six with what I remember to be 4" copper exhaust through the transom was indeed loud. My only run in with the MP at that time was skiing inside the raft at Ames early in the morning. They just came and took the plate off the boat for a week! No issues with noise then.....1969, 1970? Look how far we have come.

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by ApS

NHMP officers can't simply "stop" a boat: they need a reason to temporarily stop and detain you. The legal term is "articulable suspicion".

Using the newly-legalized exhaust cut-outs inconsiderately—and in the wrong locations—irks hundreds of peaceable lakeside residents every weekend. Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

.

This is great, hundreds of peaceful lakeside residents? I love the facts and detail, can you send us the link to the facts? And the few minutes of exhaust notes could keep someone in the broads blowing a whistle from being saved?

So lets talk fact, there was a stranded boat in Wolfboro bay Saturday afternoon, over 30 nice and quiet boats drove by and didn't stop or offer help in anyway. I was riding on a louder (legal ;-) ) boat and we saw them waving (yes, we saw them waving over the exhaust note), stopped and then towed them to the docks and helped them load it. While towing them, we were almost hit, had many boats come closer than 150 ft and cause enormous wake, all of these boats were quiet.

They were happy to have a louder boat lend a hand, and didn't care one bit that we were, in your words, a scofflaw.

[rsmlp]

Personally, I don't really like loud boats BUT they have every right to be on the lake as others and forum members have every right to articulate their opinion. I've been on the lake for over 40 years and I can't really say there has been any appreciable change in traffic or noise. Back in the 70's, large "cabin cruisers" were all the rage and frankly the numbers of large loud boats has decreased over the past few years. Jet skis are clearly dominant now and I suppose there are people who want to bitch and moan about them too. As long as boat operators are legally operating and reasonably courteous, I DON'T CARE!

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ApS

Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

Just some facts here:

out door wilderness level 30-40 db
Human talking 70 db
Human yelling 88 db
Boat decibel limit at idle 88 db
Referee whistle decibel > 100 db
foghorn >130 db

These levels are all level at source type measurements. So apparently if boat exhaust is to loud, people best not being yelling around the lake either.....

Read up and understand why the levels that where chosen where chosen. They aren't random numbers. I wrote a big long post on this a couple of years ago...

The real issue here, is how sound travels over water.... on quiet nights I hear conversations from across the lake...

There should be absolutely no problem hearing a cry for help, or a distress whistle, over the noise of boat traffic even on the busiest of days, as long as you are in the vicinity of the problem.

If someone yells for help in Center Harbor, of course you not going to hear it in Meredith...

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by ApS

NHMP officers can't simply "stop" a boat: they need a reason to temporarily stop and detain you. The legal term is "articulable suspicion".

Using the newly-legalized exhaust cut-outs inconsiderately—and in the wrong locations—irks hundreds of peaceable lakeside residents every weekend. Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

Noise is only one of many reasons to detain an offender.



.

.

Wow! I never thought about noise "rendering inaudible calls for help"

My neighbors kids like to play in the water and they are quite loud. I wonder if I should tell them that they can't play any more, or suggest they get muzzles? I mean, I would hate to have them render inaudible a call for help.

My other neighbor has a dog that barks. I wonder if I should suggest that they get rid of the dog in case someone is calling for help when their dog barks, rendering it inaudible?

Last week the guy next door mowed his lawn. I wonder if I should tell him to get a hand push mower so that the noise of his lawnmower motor does not "render inaudible a call for help"?

[JDeere]

So, this whole thread boils down to:

Some people like loud noise while others do not.

Some people feel it totally correct to malign any individual who disagrees.

Some folks like to quote "live free or die" when they feel their "rights" are in any way infringed yet the person disagreeing has no right to enjoy the lake on their terms and if they do not like it then they should move! Yikes!!!

As I have said I do not like the noise but I have never said the culprits should be banned. If the law says they are too loud then I fully support MP enforcing the law. If some of you do not like the law then work to get it changed but I am not sure what your logic would be....louder is better?

Really?

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by JDeere

Some people feel it totally correct to malign any individual who disagrees.

Its funny how you aim this statement at the people liking performance boats when you were the 1st negative post in this thread with "The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!"

For me, my post was about how good I thought it was, and again for me it was about getting away from it all in a way I enjoy. You sir were the one who added the start of the negativity or did you forget that?

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

Its funny how you aim this statement at the people liking performance boats when you were the 1st negative post in this thread with "The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!"

For me, my post was about how good I thought it was, and again for me it was about getting away from it all in a way I enjoy. You sir were the one who added the start of the negativity or did you forget that?

Well, to me, it seems like you want to censor JDeere. This is a forum where people are allowed to express their opinions, whether it matches yours or not.

[MGWillia]

So, did you hear the song from that new Disney movie "Frozen".... it's called "Let it go"

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Well, to me, it seems like you want to censor JDeere. This is a forum where people are allowed to express their opinions, whether it matches yours or not.

Not at all, I am pointing out that that post was what sent my positive post down a path that moved this to the Issues category giving it a negative tone.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Loud boats been here since before you are born! I suppose you want to coral them to a reservation like we did to the American Indians! History repeats itself. My old man will never put anything on his HackerCraft just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!

Who wants to coral....eh.... Maybe you mean corral the boats?

Your old man never put anything on his hackercraft. Just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!

What the heck does that mean.

[MGWillia]

lol.. So I'm guessing we haven't seen the movie...

[Phantom]

The thread that just won't die !




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[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by Phantom

The thread that just won't die !




.

Like dogs with a bone....

[ApS]

So, change the channel...

Originally Posted by HomeWood

I love the sound of boats. The engines, the way hulls sound slapping the waves, and the occasional scream of joy. Maybe it's just me but those sounds seem almost as natural as the Loon calls.

I can relate to that—even after years at an occupation that has taken away most of my colleagues' sense of hearing.

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Are you OK? This is one of the most confusing posts I have read on this forum.

While I prefer to post information regarding the forum's "winni-wildlife", "lost and found", history, weather, "getting here", and cottage-maintenance forums, what specifically confused you?




1) The phrase, "Getting away from it all"?

2) The combined weights of the victims' boats?

3) The State of Maine's exhaust noise regulation?

4) That exhaust noise can be heard on the opposite side of Rattlesnake Island?

5) That exhaust noise on The Broads can be heard in Johnson's Cove?

6) That my family has a long history at Winnipesaukee?

7) That exhaust noise interferes with the simplest of the Lake's enjoyments?

8) That ocean-racers lost "The Big One" in Concord?

9) That ocean-racers can today make more exhaust noise?

10) That using a telephone at the dock becomes impossible due exhaust noise?

11) That NHMP dispatchers get "drowned-out" by exhaust noise?

12) The legal term, "Articulable Suspicion"?

I'll try to use shorter words when possible.

Originally Posted by Rusty

For some reason I visualize you looking like this after the NHMP tell you that your complaint will be looked into and they don't do anything:

I've made sure that the NHMP has no choice in the matter: I only call when two conditions are met.

1) I see the infraction.

2) I see an NHMP officer is already present.

It's worked out well so far; previously, the NHMP appeared between 20 and 30 minutes later. (Most often, too late for the necessary "articulable suspicion"—or even to halt an underage operator—who sadly died within my view.)

To their credit, NHMP dispatchers have always followed-through.



.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by JDeere

It was your post that raised the issue. The GFBL's are loud and yes I can always see the offending boat and it is always the performance boat that can be heard over the regular boat noise AND as you know boats are getting less loud versus more.

I fully support MP and their efforts to make sure that the boats sound level falls within the law. Who wants to listen to that???

I am not denigrating the GFBL people although I might be denigrating their boats and their desire to make the ruckus on what is really a small lake.

Finally no I do not have to move to another section of the lake....the GFBL boats simply need to abide by the rules....some do and some do not. Pretty simple.

"desire to make the rukus"

"offending boat"

Remember, the boats that have been on this lake a lot longer than most of us have were sometimes not well muffled. I was here in the early 70's when the flat bottom Sangers with the big blocks with twin open exhaust pipes over the transom were quite common. 90 MPH with just an in or out transmission, no reverse, and a foot operated throttle. Yes things change and some approve and others complain.

Maybe those you you feel "desire to make a rukus" just enjoy the sound of their boat and taking a ride on the lake. When they go by my house or I see them out on the lake, I enjoy the sight and sound and have no complaints. I am glad that a fellow boater is having a good time.

Life is too short. I don't even care how fast they are going, as long as they are doing it safely.

This is New Hampshire! Live free or die. Fewer rules is a good thing.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by JDeere

The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!

The lake was busy and choppy yesterday. The performance boats with 24 degree hulls excel in those conditions and were out. Regarding the noise, LI has a thread going on about testing. It seems the MP have been enforcing the law so those boats you heard were likely legal.

[Phantom]

Don't know who's boat ..........

But it is sure pretty (to me) to watch these type boats run ....... and envy them for having the money to do so !


Not so much the wanna be's like Baja's ( I pick that brand arbitrarily)




Also to the "noise" whiners .... ever notice that the smaller boats ... Baja, et al (<28') make more "noise" than the true "cigarette" class boats which have more of a powerful rumble than simply exhaust noise ?


(bring the bashing on -- I'm ready not to respond)

[cowisl]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Don't know who's boat ..........

But it is sure pretty (to me) to watch these type boats run ....... and envy them for having the money to do so !


Not so much the wanna be's like Baja's ( I pick that brand arbitrarily)




Also to the "noise" whiners .... ever notice that the smaller boats ... Baja, et al (<28') make more "noise" than the true "cigarette" class boats which have more of a powerful rumble than simply exhaust noise ?


(bring the bashing on -- I'm ready not to respond)

Believe that boat burned a few years back.

[MGWillia]

I don't have a dog in this fight... I'm not back there YET. But I do enjoy reading along. I'm not a huge fan of noise, but it is what it is. And though, in my youth, I had more "boating" events in my life, I am not currently a boat owner. But I have seen a similar trend to another life experience that bugs me personally. Motorcycles. Know, I have NO problem with someone owning, riding, enjoying the fruits of their labors in the form of personal property. The thing that "annoys" me is when they sit and rev. I noticed that was a "thing" for some of the posters here, inasmuch as some "loud" boaters sit at idle at the docks. Same with drivers who feel they must share their car radio with the rest of us. A boat, screaming along at high speed, showing its technological prowess, is awe inspiring. Watching someone cruise away down the road on a big bike speaks to freedom. Ride on... But when you stop, remember the rest of us, just might not enjoy your joy as much as you do.... I believe I would second the poster who asked that they kill the engine as soon as practical after docking. Like I said, no way as informed as the rest of you on the boat side of things. But at some point, while enjoying our personal freedoms, I think it is reasonable to think of others and their enjoyment. (guess I should skip bike week...) Thanks for letting me play along.

[jrc]

Engine noise is just one of those things that people won't agree on. For some nothing is loud enough and for some nothing is quiet enough. We passed laws to resolve these conflicts and enforce a compromise. If you think the limits are wrong, talk to your local representative. NH has a huge legislature, you should be able to bend your reps ear.

If you have a limit some one has to enforce it, you can't blame the MP for enforcing the law.

Of course now someone invented the crime of overpowering a whistle, what's next?

[BroadHopper]

Somehow Lake Winnipesaukee has more rules and regulations than any other lake that I can think of, yet we have more 'uncivilized' skippers than any other body of water that I have been on. Is there a correlation or is it a coincidence?

[tis]

Originally Posted by MGWillia

I don't have a dog in this fight... I'm not back there YET. But I do enjoy reading along. I'm not a huge fan of noise, but it is what it is. And though, in my youth, I had more "boating" events in my life, I am not currently a boat owner. But I have seen a similar trend to another life experience that bugs me personally. Motorcycles. Know, I have NO problem with someone owning, riding, enjoying the fruits of their labors in the form of personal property. The thing that "annoys" me is when they sit and rev. I noticed that was a "thing" for some of the posters here, inasmuch as some "loud" boaters sit at idle at the docks. Same with drivers who feel they must share their car radio with the rest of us. A boat, screaming along at high speed, showing its technological prowess, is awe inspiring. Watching someone cruise away down the road on a big bike speaks to freedom. Ride on... But when you stop, remember the rest of us, just might not enjoy your joy as much as you do.... I believe I would second the poster who asked that they kill the engine as soon as practical after docking. Like I said, no way as informed as the rest of you on the boat side of things. But at some point, while enjoying our personal freedoms, I think it is reasonable to think of others and their enjoyment. (guess I should skip bike week...) Thanks for letting me play along.

You are exactly right. Good post!! Jet skiis can be very annoying when they go round and round and round and round in the same spot.

[Webbsatwinni]

Moved to boating issues???? Read my original post, no issues, it was the forum members that took it to issues.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

Moved to boating issues???? Read my original post, no issues, it was the forum members that took it to issues.

It could have been locked up...lesser of two evils. You are correct: the original subject was just an observation. Some later posts took it in a whole different direction.

[Webbsatwinni]

This really is just like being at the lake now, a few people ruin it for many. This is like being pulled over by MP for no good reason!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

This really is just like being at the lake now, a few people ruin it for many. This is like being pulled over by MP for no good reason!

Honestly, what difference does it make if the topic is put here or a couple lines up in the boating section...like people aren't going to read it??

This whole "General Issues / Controversial" section is really quite silly and does nothing to stop people from saying what they will. I wouldn't doubt if more people read whats here than whats posted in the "politically correct" section...

Dan

[MGWillia]

Sorry, new here. I thought it was ok to follow a line of discussion. I wasn't aware of the etiquette in regards to the original post. Again, my apologies for my part in the discussion.

Marty

[Woodsy]

Anytime the topic of performance Boats comes up here on Winni.com, the outcome is very contentious and usually results in the thread being moved.

IMHO, Ever since the speed limit was proposed, the lake has been a VERY divided place. Some people like APS & JDeere let their extreme dislike of performance boats color their posts. If you want a good read, check out some of the speed limit arguments on this forum... some of the videos & pictures APS posted and his spin on them are hilarious. There were an incredible amount of lies told about performance boats. There still are. They had an agenda, the speed limit got passed. It is what it is.

But not much has changed... thankfully!

Woodsy

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Honestly, what difference does it make if the topic is put here or a couple lines up in the boating section...like people aren't going to read it??

This whole "General Issues / Controversial" section is really quite silly and does nothing to stop people from saying what they will. I wouldn't doubt if more people read whats here than whats posted in the "politically correct" section...

Dan

While I agree, its perception, anything performance is an issue? There are many people at the lake that enjoy these boats and its only an issue to the vocal few.
We were at Naswa Saturday and there was a 38 topgun there and people onshore and boating up, all stopped and stared at it, I do not think there was one person there that walked past without looking and commenting on how nice it was. So where is the issue?

So my issue with this being move to "issues" is that it wasn't an issue, it was a positive note that a few cranky people made an issue of.

Censorship to control perception.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

While I agree, its perception, anything performance is an issue? There are many people at the lake that enjoy these boats and its only an issue to the vocal few.
We were at Naswa Saturday and there was a 38 topgun there and people onshore and boating up, all stopped and stared at it, I do not think there was one person there that walked past without looking and commenting on how nice it was. So where is the issue?

So my issue with this being move to "issues" is that it wasn't an issue, it was a positive note that a few cranky people made an issue of.

Censorship to control perception.

How are you being censored?

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

How are you being censored?

By placing a simple boating comment into an issues thread, this was not an issue I had. This was made into an issue by others. There is a perception that anything performance is an issue, this change helps with that perception.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

While I agree, its perception, anything performance is an issue? There are many people at the lake that enjoy these boats and its only an issue to the vocal few.

The vocal few can't dismiss the three tragedies that plague this boating "issue".



.

[Tyler]

The performance boats did not cause these tragedies, the drunk operators did.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by ApS

The vocal few can't dismiss the three tragedies that plague this boating "issue".



.

It was the booze not the boats that caused the problems....And the ones that you were referring to were not high speed accidents.

Nice spin though

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by codeman671

It was the booze not the boats that caused the problems....And the ones that you were referring to were not high speed accidents.

Nice spin though

Why let the facts get in the way of a good argument!

[Rusty]

This discussion about GFBL boats goes down the same path all the time. For the most part it seems to have the same players involved.

No one is posting anything different then what has already been said in many other threads.

Time to move on and enjoy what the Lake has to offer for all of us.

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by Rusty

This discussion about GFBL boats goes down the same path all the time. For the most part it seems to have the same players involved.

No one is posting anything different then what has already been said in many other threads.

Time to move on and enjoy what the Lake has to offer for all of us.

It was a simple post that started to go down hill with the non performance crowd. Enjoying the lake was the theme of my post, I enjoy seeing it, it was a welcomed change for me, I posted it.

[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

Moved to boating issues???? Read my original post, no issues, it was the forum members that took it to issues.

I agree. Nothing seems to stay on track on this forum. You try and say something nice ( and neutral) and before you know it there is someone lurking and waiting to jump in, turn the subject to the negative and high jack it to promote their own agenda.

[tis]

I think conversations stray on most forums. That doesn't really bother me. What bothers me is when people criticize (or worse) others.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Chaselady

I agree. Nothing seems to stay on track on this forum. You try and say something nice ( and neutral) and before you know it there is someone lurking and waiting to jump in, turn the subject to the negative and high jack it to promote their own agenda.

Totally agree --- seems it is getting much more prevalent (Hijacked threads) than in the past


and by virtue of this post-- I just did too.

[Donzi Minx]

Just to add a bit of irony maybe the straying threads need OMERTA.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Donzi Minx

Just to add a bit of irony maybe the straying threads need OMERTA.

Your Italian is showing

[Winnigirl]

I think #1 and #10 are a bit contradictory.

[tis]

I still don't understand how if a boat passed once it can be tested again and not pass. They didn't change the decibel level. Unless someone fooled around with their boat, why would it change?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by tis

I still don't understand how if a boat passed once it can be tested again and not pass. They didn't change the decibel level. Unless someone fooled around with their boat, why would it change?

You answered your own question. Performance boats/cars/motorcycles are rarely not tinkered with to try and extract more performance from them. One of the easiest ways to extract more performance from an engine is to relieve back pressure in the exhaust system. You can do that in three ways, a really big muffler that keeps the noise down, but takes up a lot of space, looks ugly and costs a lot of money, a smaller muffler that trades higher flow for less noise reduction, or a straight through pipe that offers the best flow for the least amount of money and the least noise reduction. Swapping a muffler for a straight pipe can be a 10 minute job, so passing a test once can mean nothing an hour later...

The easiest solution is to keep the boat/car/motorcycle quiet enough to not attract attention. For some, the attention is the sole reason for the loud exhaust.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Originally Posted by tis

I still don't understand how if a boat passed once it can be tested again and not pass. They didn't change the decibel level. Unless someone fooled around with their boat, why would it change?

I had the test done 6 years ago, so things may have changed. There are a number of reasons., aside from mechanical changes.

1 - Equipment, calibration and the MP operator - I had to do 3 passes at WOT. The MP averaged those 3 passes to come up with a final DB number. So there is variability. Each pass was between 2 - 5 DB different.

2 - Proximity to MP boat - For the 3 WOT passes, I was asked to be 25 off of the MP boats transom (scared the &^%& out of me at 70 mph, and a bit dangerous I thought). A few feet either way can mean a difference difference between pass / fail.

3 - Weather - My first test was postponed due to fog. The MP told me that humidity, wind, etc can effect the result.

You know, I moved to south FL 6 years ago. Amazing that this debate is still going strong. Here, no 150 foot rule, most places, no speed limits. Boats of every size, shape and type. Everyone seems to get along (sometimes tolerate) and enjoy boating. There are boneheads of course but's that's another topic There are a lot of things I miss about living in NH, but this isn't one of them.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

I had the test done 6 years ago, so things may have changed. There are a number of reasons., aside from mechanical changes.

1 - Equipment, calibration and the MP operator - I had to do 3 passes at WOT. The MP averaged those 3 passes to come up with a final DB number. So there is variability. Each pass was between 2 - 5 DB different.

2 - Proximity to MP boat - For the 3 WOT passes, I was asked to be 25 off of the MP boats transom (scared the &^%& out of me at 70 mph, and a bit dangerous I thought). A few feet either way can mean a difference difference between pass / fail.

3 - Weather - My first test was postponed due to fog. The MP told me that humidity, wind, etc can effect the result.

You know, I moved to south FL 6 years ago. Amazing that this debate is still going strong. Here, no 150 foot rule, most places, no speed limits. Boats of every size, shape and type. Everyone seems to get along (sometimes tolerate) and enjoy boating. There are boneheads of course but's that's another topic There are a lot of things I miss about living in NH, but this isn't one of them.

I think we did the test about 6 years ago too, maybe longer. It took us 4 or 5 times before we finally passed and it that was just barely a pass. So
I am a little paranoid now that we might get stopped but don't really want to ask for trouble by asking to be tested. WE haven't changed anything mechanically though.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Originally Posted by tis

I think we did the test about 6 years ago too, maybe longer. It took us 4 or 5 times before we finally passed and it that was just barely a pass. So
I am a little paranoid now that we might get stopped but don't really want to ask for trouble by asking to be tested. WE haven't changed anything mechanically though.

It took me 2 times, and I think my average just barley squeaked under. My fist pass was at 78 and each one got a little bit higher We were all stock (HP500s).

[tis]

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

It took me 2 times, and I think my average just barley squeaked under. My fist pass was at 78 and each one got a little bit higher We were all stock (HP500s).

I was in the boat with the MP. He was stern but the last time he thanked me for being nice. I asked him if people actually weren't nice to him despite the fact that none of us are happy to be there. He said you wouldn't believe how bad people are. I might not be happy but I was still taught to respect authority. I was sure glad it was finally over after a whole summer of marinas trying to get the boat right, a lot of money, and all those tests. I think we finally passed in Oct. when they did the last test of the year out there.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Funny thing, I had an older MP in my boat when we did the final round of tests (at Timber). It was a little hairy as we had to go WOT by the MP boat that was about 10' offshore, then take a hard turn to port to clear the point and rocks.

When we were done, the officer thanked me, smiled and said "now I know why you guys like these boats"

I hear you on losing time, I got stopped on a Saturday, and the test was scheduled for the following weekend. That was postponed due to fog. Next week failed and 3rd week passed. Lost almost a full month of boating.

My boat was stock, as delivered by the dealer in Winni. We had a cracked baffle (due to age). Fortunately, that was it.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

Funny thing, I had an older MP in my boat when we did the final round of tests (at Timber). It was a little hairy as we had to go WOT by the MP boat that was about 10' offshore, then take a hard turn to port to clear the point and rocks.

When we were done, the officer thanked me, smiled and said "now I know why you guys like these boats"

I hear you on losing time, I got stopped on a Saturday, and the test was scheduled for the following weekend. That was postponed due to fog. Next week failed and 3rd week passed. Lost almost a full month of boating.

My boat was stock, as delivered by the dealer in Winni. We had a cracked baffle (due to age). Fortunately, that was it.

We had no idea when we bought ours that it was loud. I just loved the look of the boat and had to have it. We never even tried it out. And the problem was they didn't really know how to fix it. They tried this and then that and then this and then that until it finally passed. I think they were trying to quiet it enough with a major deal. But it didn't work.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by tis

We had no idea when we bought ours that it was loud. I just loved the look of the boat and had to have it. We never even tried it out. And the problem was they didn't really know how to fix it. They tried this and then that and then this and then that until it finally passed. I think they were trying to quiet it enough with a major deal. But it didn't work.

It is a major deal. About a decade ago I receive a quote of about $4,000 to replace the DARPA silencers on my '88 with the newer nonswitchable exhaust. It involves replacing the whole through the hull unit including the headers. For now, it is quiet at WOT as tested a decade ago. Now I am worried about the testing at idle. There is not enough water flowing through the mufflers to quiet the sound.

[SIKSUKR]

Oh come on ApS.You love the sound of noisy aircraft.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ghlight=planes
I believe it is the "usual" Saturday Sukhoi acrobatic monoplane that does loops and spirals above Rattlesnake Island nearly every weekend. Yes, you do have to look up--and it helps to hear it first!

It could be a Yak--they're similar planes, even at 100 feet altitude. Both are equipped with the radial (round) engine that won WWII.

It is the Antonov's radial engine that makes the difference.

Like the sound that a Harley-Davidson makes from its own antique design lineage, a radial engine makes a very distinctive sound: If it's flying over Winnipesaukee, you can detect it.

The radial engine sound has even produced a cottage industry in CD recordings. (You can listen on-line!)
http://www.spitcrazy.com/sounds_of_aviation.htm
http://rareaviation.com/raenfrso.html

One recording company has even added music to the sound:
http://sounddogs.com/results.asp? (Vocals!)

I don't know of any similar recordings of any other engine.

Too, it is the sound of our WWII American "Warbird" legacy. These designs produced engines of 3600+HP from a single engine. Here's the radial engine principle.

Like some boats on Winnipesaukee, Harley-Davidson motorcyclists try to project a kind of "Warbird" image. (Paint jobs, graphics, decals, leather jackets and "character"). It's just ridiculous that our Warbird legacy of WWII could be matched or experienced through paint jobs and appearances: think "poseur". All the other engine sounds that strike my ear at Winnipesaukee are projected through noisy Detroit-Iron exhaust pipes, housed in expensive fiberglass jukeboxes.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ghlight=planes
of us lakeside will be treated to the sound of these Warbirds overhead that's been described as "felt", rather than "heard".

These engines are of a "radial" (round) design, and have a distinctive exhaust note. Instead of the "rap" of the related Harley-Davidson motorcycle engine, listen for the "chuh-chuh-chuh" of those big radials.

So the bottom line is if its a noise others like its not ok but if its noise you like its all good.

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Oh come on ApS.You love the sound of noisy aircraft.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ghlight=planes
I believe it is the "usual" Saturday Sukhoi acrobatic monoplane that does loops and spirals above Rattlesnake Island nearly every weekend. Yes, you do have to look up--and it helps to hear it first!

It could be a Yak--they're similar planes, even at 100 feet altitude. Both are equipped with the radial (round) engine that won WWII.

It is the Antonov's radial engine that makes the difference.

Like the sound that a Harley-Davidson makes from its own antique design lineage, a radial engine makes a very distinctive sound: If it's flying over Winnipesaukee, you can detect it.

The radial engine sound has even produced a cottage industry in CD recordings. (You can listen on-line!)
http://www.spitcrazy.com/sounds_of_aviation.htm
http://rareaviation.com/raenfrso.html

One recording company has even added music to the sound:
http://sounddogs.com/results.asp? (Vocals!)

I don't know of any similar recordings of any other engine.

Too, it is the sound of our WWII American "Warbird" legacy. These designs produced engines of 3600+HP from a single engine. Here's the radial engine principle.

Like some boats on Winnipesaukee, Harley-Davidson motorcyclists try to project a kind of "Warbird" image. (Paint jobs, graphics, decals, leather jackets and "character"). It's just ridiculous that our Warbird legacy of WWII could be matched or experienced through paint jobs and appearances: think "poseur". All the other engine sounds that strike my ear at Winnipesaukee are projected through noisy Detroit-Iron exhaust pipes, housed in expensive fiberglass jukeboxes.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ghlight=planes
of us lakeside will be treated to the sound of these Warbirds overhead that's been described as "felt", rather than "heard".

These engines are of a "radial" (round) design, and have a distinctive exhaust note. Instead of the "rap" of the related Harley-Davidson motorcycle engine, listen for the "chuh-chuh-chuh" of those big radials.

So the bottom line is if its a noise others like its not ok but if its noise you like its all good.

That sir was the best well researched post I have seen in awhile. The detail is impressive, no matter what side of the debate you are on. Well done!

[RTTOOL]

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

Funny thing, I had an older MP in my boat when we did the final round of tests (at Timber). It was a little hairy as we had to go WOT by the MP boat that was about 10' offshore, then take a hard turn to port to clear the point and rocks.

When we were done, the officer thanked me, smiled and said "now I know why you guys like these boats"

I hear you on losing time, I got stopped on a Saturday, and the test was scheduled for the following weekend. That was postponed due to fog. Next week failed and 3rd week passed. Lost almost a full month of boating.

My boat was stock, as delivered by the dealer in Winni. We had a cracked baffle (due to age). Fortunately, that was it.

The standard used for the exhaust noise test is ISO 14509. I cant believe that NHMP WOULD PUT a person in danger like that of a mister meaner.the test requires the boat to pass by the sound meter at a distance of 25 meters (82 feet). The boat must be traveling at least 70 kilometers per hour (43.5 mph) or maximum speed. To pass the test the average of the two highest results must not exceed 78 dB(A).

As a point of reference - the sound of water lapping the shore is 75-80 dBA.