Man overboard from the mount!

Skip · 10-28-2006, 10:06 PM

Channel 9 (WMUR Manchester) is reporting one person overboard and missing near Welch Island. Apparently fell off the Mount on its Halloween Cruise.

Promising more details as they become available.....

Pepper · 10-28-2006, 10:33 PM

Scanner traffic indicates that there are boats from Gilford, Alton, Laconia and Moultonboro out searching. I've not heard anything to indicate that they've located anyone yet, but I was away from the scanner for a bit so please don't consider that gospel.

I'll be listening for a while longer, and if I hear anything I'll post back.

Edit: For those who care, the call went out at just a minute or two after 10:00PM, and there were search boats in the water within minutes! Lakes Region Dispatch does an amazing job of managing traffic in these types of situations, and responders from multiple municipalities sprung into action immediately. We're very blessed to have such a cooperative spirit among the responders of various communities, and such efficient call management from the dispatch center.

Pepper · 10-28-2006, 11:47 PM

Lakes Region Dispatch just reported that the search has been terminated for tonight.

My prayers are with all those who engaged in the search thus far, will engage in further searching tomorrow, and of course with the person who remains in the water.

So scary.

Skip · 10-29-2006, 06:30 AM

First short article to appear in the FOSTER'S/CITIZEN.

The MANCHESTER UNION LEADER also contains a very short story on their respective web site.

jlrm73 · 10-29-2006, 07:41 AM

So scary! I was listening to the scanner, too, Pepper. I second your post, Lakes Region did a great job. I hope for good news today. Sad.

Fargo · 10-29-2006, 08:17 AM

Just spoke with my brother who was on the cruise last night and just saw the man's feet go over the rail near the bow. He's the one that reported it to the captain. He's pretty shaken up this morning about the whole thing.

Paugus Bay Resident · 10-29-2006, 08:52 AM

We were on the boat as well. The lake was suprisingly calm considering the weather earlier in the day. We spent about a hour "drifting" in the broads, at the time, not knowing why.

Thoughts and prayers for those involved.

Weirs guy · 10-29-2006, 09:37 AM

Its funny, my plan was to post this morning that despite all the bad weather warnings the Mount slip out last night into a quiet, moon light night. Sounds like this accident has nothing to do with weather at all. Hopefully we will get good news on the outcome.

catman2 · 10-29-2006, 10:43 AM

I heard the first call as well and was hoping it was a false call. We can only hope and pray the guy made it to an island and somehow found shelter.

I also feel for the rescue crews....I can't imagine trying to search for someone in the dark and the weather conditons etc. Special thoughts to them as well.

We were just talking about this last weekend. Does anyone know if this has happened before? I have heard of kids jumping off in the summer....in the daylight but not this time of year etc!

A real sad way to end the season! The Mount crew does such a great job during the season it must be very hard for them too!

My thoughts to all involved!

GWC... · 10-29-2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fargo

Just spoke with my brother who was on the cruise last night and just saw the man's feet go over the rail near the bow. He's the one that reported it to the captain.

Must have been a tall person...

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...hp?photo=10320

KonaChick · 10-29-2006, 11:52 AM

GWC...i bet you're going to be a "troll" for Halloween!

Skip · 10-29-2006, 11:53 AM

According to WMUR-TV the search commenced again today at sunrise, but was suspended at around 11:00 am this morning due to poor weather conditions.

Weirs guy · 10-29-2006, 12:51 PM

Just got back from a walk on the boardwalk and theres a sign in the Mounts ticket office that reads:

Sunday, October 29th
Due to weather
conditions, the MOUNT
will not be cruising today.
See you in 2007!

Take it for what its worth, a sad day all around.

RumGuy · 10-29-2006, 01:07 PM

I couldn't help but wonder if this was a Haloween prank in the worst fashion. I wonder if anyone actually saw the PERSON standing at the rail, or if the witness saw legs and feet. With that, I am not discrediting the witness in any way, but merely stating that the witness may have fallen into the prank as it was planned. I know that I would have myself. It seems odd that nothing of this sort has happened througout the summer, with plenty of alcohol flowing . Now, in costume season......

Airwaves · 10-29-2006, 01:20 PM

RumGuy Unfortunately it does not appear to be a Halloween prank. This last sentence in today's Associated Press story on the incident seems to indicate that authorities know who the victim is.

Quote:

The victim is a New Hampshire resident. His name hasn't been released yet because relatives still are being notified.

legend · 10-29-2006, 02:09 PM

My name is Roger Amsden. I am a news correspondent for the Union Leader and am looking for information regarding the man overboard on the Mount.
You can e-mail me at roger@weirs.com or call me at 366-2357 or 524-8078. Any information which helps me get the facts straight would be greatly appreciated.

Legend

Grant · 10-29-2006, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWC...

Must have been a tall person...

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...hp?photo=10320

One can only assume that the victim was sitting on the railing. How else do you get over? It's intentionally high. Sadly, it seems that this was a very unfortunate, yet highly preventable, mishap.

Mr. V · 10-30-2006, 01:43 AM

Just wondering: if this person went overboard near the bow, wouldn't he have more likely than not been run over by the boat and perhaps drawn into the propellors? Not much chance of a happy ending on this one.

Skip · 10-30-2006, 05:43 AM

....the Manchester Union Leader has an updated story this morning reporting that the individual in question fell from the lower portion of the vessel.

While the WMUR website has yet to be updated their newsdesk is reporting this morning that the search should commence again today at around 8:00 am.

Edit: add latest update from the Citizen on-line.

SIKSUKR · 10-30-2006, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWC...

Must have been a tall person...

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...hp?photo=10320

That would be true from the top deck but look how low the rail is on the lower deck.It looks like it is at the mans hip area.

GWC... · 10-30-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

....the Manchester Union Leader has an updated story this morning reporting that the individual in question fell from the lower portion of the vessel.

While the WMUR website has yet to be updated their newsdesk is reporting this morning that the search should commence again today at around 8:00 am.

Edit: add latest update from the Citizen on-line.

Interesting, though sad, the Laconia Citizen Online has a different article than your link and reports the incident occurred on the upper deck, while the NH Union Leader online edition reported it occurred on the lower deck.

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...130/-1/CITIZEN

SIKSUKR · 10-30-2006, 02:31 PM

WMUR.com has identified the victim as a 45 year old Hooksett man.
http://www.wmur.com/news/10189843/detail.html

atimmins · 10-30-2006, 03:04 PM

The man has been identified as James Sylvestre. The search is about over for today but will resume on Tuesday.

I am a reporter for the Concord Monitor and I am trying to write a story about the party on the Mount and Mr. Sylvestre that describes his as more than only the man who went overboard.
If any of his friends are reading and can add some more positive details about Mr. Sylvestre's life, can they reach me at 369-3323 or atimmins@cmonitor.com?

Thank you,
Annmarie Timmins

Weirs guy · 10-30-2006, 05:52 PM

Annmarie Timmins has done some wonderful work for a mutual friend of hers and mine, the Silva family of Loudon. Hopefully someone here can help her put together a wonderful piece on the victim of this accident as well.

Best of luck Annmarie.

Skip · 10-31-2006, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWC...

Interesting, though sad, the Laconia Citizen Online has a different article than your link and reports the incident occurred on the upper deck, while the NH Union Leader online edition reported it occurred on the lower deck.
http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...130/-1/CITIZEN

Err, did someone say "accuracy in the media"?

Anyway, in today's update found at Foster's Daily Democrat/Citizen, F&G officials are quoted as saying the incident occured on the lower right deck near the bow.

SIKSUKR · 10-31-2006, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atimmins

I am a reporter for the Concord Monitor and I am trying to write a story about the party on the Mount and Mr. Sylvestre that describes his as more than only the man who went overboard.

Thank you,
Annmarie Timmins

I not sure I understand this statement.Did someone else go overboard?Was the the party overboard?Are we talking about it was more than his life that went overboard?Very confusing.

DRH · 10-31-2006, 08:52 AM

The lake is finally calm this morning, after three days of high winds. A NH Fish & Game helicopter is currently slowly searching the area between Rattlesnake and Sleepers Islands, and between the islands and Smalls Cove and Minge Cove in West Alton.

Edit: According to the Laconia Citizen, the helicopter we saw is owned by the NH State Police, not the Fish and Game Dept.

Weirs guy · 10-31-2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I not sure I understand this statement.Did someone else go overboard?Was the the party overboard?Are we talking about it was more than his life that went overboard?Very confusing,especially for a reporter.

I expected better then this from the forum regulars. This reporter is trying to gather info on a man who would otherwise be simply known as "the guy who fell off the mount", and your taking pot shots at her. Perhaps you should read some of her articles before questioning her reporting abilities.

EllyPoinster · 10-31-2006, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

I expected better then this from the forum regulars. This reporter is trying to gather info on a man who would otherwise be simply known as "the guy who fell off the mount", and your taking pot shots at her. Perhaps you should read some of her articles before questioning her reporting abilities.

I was confused here too. I think the reporter's request could have been clearer: "I am a reporter for the Concord Monitor and I am trying to write a story about the party on the Mount and Mr. Sylvestre that describes him as more than only (meaning "just" or "simply") the man who went overboard."

Weirs guy · 10-31-2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EllyPoinster

I was confused here too. I think the reporter's request could have been clearer

My point is we are all guilty of poorly worded posts, lets not hang someone who's looking to do a good deed over one. Now before I start a flame war I'll drop the subject, hopefully those that know the victim will research some of the reporters articles or PM me, then decide for themselves if they want to help her out.

dmjr · 10-31-2006, 02:49 PM

Just got back from EM Heath Hardware and saw the Mount is back in the winter dock. It amazes that me that someone could fall over the lower rail unless they loss there footing.

Orion · 10-31-2006, 03:30 PM

Looking at the bow configuration, if the Mount was making a turn and it was still very windy that night, the wind could pocket in that space between the upper and lower decks ahead of that bulkhead, and create a gust which could catch someone off guard as it went through the turn. Winds were still around 15-20 mph at that time. Maybe a costume which could catch the wind as well?

GWC... · 10-31-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orion

Looking at the bow configuration, if the Mount was making a turn and it was still very windy that night, the wind could pocket in that space between the upper and lower decks ahead of that bulkhead, and create a gust which could catch someone off guard as it went through the turn. Winds were still around 15-20 mph at that time. Maybe a costume which could catch the wind as well?

Viable conclusion, except it's basically a straight shot between Rattlesnake Island and Welch Island. The incident seems to have happened near Welch Island, which would not lend credence to a turning scenario. From Welch Island, the Mount would travel between Timber Island and the Witches, Governor and Eagle Islands, and on toward the Weirs.

It's still a sad situation, whatever the cause.

DRH · 10-31-2006, 05:11 PM

The NH Fish and Game Dept. issued the following news release this afternoon:
================================================== =====

News from the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department
October 31, 2006
Phone: (603) 271-3211
Email: info@wildlife.state.nh.us
For information and online licenses, visit http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us

* * * * * * *

CONTACT:
Capt. Martin Garabedian: (603) 271-3361
Liza Poinier: (603) 271-3211
October 31, 2006

SEARCH FOR HOOKSETT MAN CONTINUES ON LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE

CONCORD, N.H. -- Search operations continued today for the recovery of James Sylvestre, age 45, of Hooksett, New Hampshire, who is presumed drowned after falling overboard from the M/S Mount Washington excursion ship on Saturday night, October 28, 2006, on Lake Winnipesaukee.

Search efforts were hampered on Sunday and Monday due to the high winds and rough water conditions. Tuesday, New Hampshire Fish and Game and N.H. Marine Patrol officers were joined in the search effort by New Hampshire and Connecticut State Police.

The N.H. State Police helicopter conducted a search of the lake and shoreline in the area of Rattlesnake Island.

Connecticut State Police are using a specialized underwater side-scan sonar unit capable of searching large areas of open water.

The search area is concentrated in the area of Welch and Rattlesnake islands, with water depths of 50 to 100 feet. The search will continue until dark, and if necessary, will resume on Wednesday morning, November 1.

N.H. Marine Patrol is conducting an investigation into the incident. Lt. James Goss of the N.H. Fish and Game Department is conducting the recovery effort.

No further information is available at this time.

-###-

--
Copyright 2006 New Hampshire Fish and Game Department, 11 Hazen Drive, Concord, NH 03301. Comments or questions concerning this list should be directed to lpoinier@wildlife.state.nh.us.

Pineedles · 10-31-2006, 08:17 PM

Let's let the "reporters" research the facts and not let this forum be an easy source for them to pickup idle chatter which may or not be true.

No criticism of anyone intended. I've seen too many inquiries by reporters inviting us to "talk" and thereby invite speculation quotes that are reported as facts.

Orion · 10-31-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Let's let the "reporters" research the facts and not let this forum be an easy source for them to pickup idle chatter which may or not be true.

No criticism of anyone intended. I've seen too many inquiries by reporters inviting us to "talk" and thereby invite speculation quotes that are reported as facts.

This IS a forum, and the purpose of a forum is for discussion. If a reporter uses speculation from a forum for a story, then he/she is no reporter.

dmjr · 10-31-2006, 10:34 PM

Just read the Concord Monitor online. They mentioned something about looking the safety records. Has the Mount had any mishaps that could reported?

secondcurve · 11-01-2006, 06:36 AM

Pineneedles:

I am pretty sure that a reporter wouldn't take informaton directly from the web site. Rather, they are looking for people who might have been involved in the incident to intreview as potential sources of information.

jrc · 11-01-2006, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmjr

Just read the Concord Monitor online. They mentioned something about looking the safety records. Has the Mount had any mishaps that could reported?

Let me start by saying I don't know what happened, this all conjecture. But safety means a lot of things. It refers to maintanance on the vessel and its systems, and it refers to training of the operational crew of the vessel. But it also refers to the hospitality people and their training. Remember a lot of bartenders and bar owners have been sued because someone they served had an accident.

SIKSUKR · 11-01-2006, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

I expected better then this from the forum regulars. This reporter is trying to gather info on a man who would otherwise be simply known as "the guy who fell off the mount", and your taking pot shots at her. Perhaps you should read some of her articles before questioning her reporting abilities.

Wow!Chill out.?I didn't understand what she was asking or stating.Apparently I was not the only one.If it's my last line you are refering to,I have removed it.I think that her statement was very confusing.There is no need to flame me for not understanding something that is clearly confusing.

Pineedles · 11-01-2006, 09:18 PM

Orion,
I didn't mean that we shouldn't talk about it on the forum. I just wanted to speak to the issue of the press using out of context quotes that were not part of a consented to interview. Speculation is fine, but we all know that what we say can get twisted.

Skip · 11-02-2006, 06:06 AM

Coverage from the Manchester Union Leader on yesterday's search efforts.

And this story in today's Citizen/Foster's Daily Democrat: Questions remain...

Mee-n-Mac · 11-02-2006, 01:09 PM

Well did they say they were using a borrowed sidescan sonar ? Hmmm, I wonder where they got that idea. More seriously I hope they get lucky and can recover the victim before too long. This has rekindled my thinking re: if there might be a better way to go about a search/recovery like this. SSS and aerial viewing are good tools but there's just too many ways for someone to go undetected. The wait & see approach is awfully hard on the family. I don't know any better way to go about it but still I wonder if the 2 incidents this year might be the impetus for some creative thinking.

LIforrelaxin · 11-02-2006, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

I don't know any better way to go about it but still I wonder if the 2 incidents this year might be the impetus for some creative thinking.

I wonder if an idea would be a scientific study of the currents in the lake. I would imaging this has been done to some degree but probably not as a fully funded grant. I would think this would be something that one of the colleges could under take. Of course finding the funding for such a project might not be so easy, and of course the amount of time to conduct such a project may not neccessarily do any good for anyone anytime soon. But it seems to me the big problem is being able to define a search area once visiable contact is lost.

SIKSUKR · 11-02-2006, 02:44 PM

WMUR has an article which says they used a special sonar unit and were unsuccessfull.

Coolbreeze · 11-02-2006, 06:33 PM

In the fire service here in Pa we use Thermal imaging cameras during our initial searches. Once a body cools it is(the camera) virtually useless. Most Coast Guard helos have a similar camera called a Flir (pronounced fleer) camera. It is another tool to help in ititial searches. Both cameras show hot objects in their environments However quite expensive. Our original camera was about 15000 dollars. They since have come down in price a bit. We can't over state how important these tools are to us in the fire service. My prayers to the family of the lost person.

Diver1111 · 11-02-2006, 06:55 PM

As with the search for Fred Surrette, F&G and other authorities have their work cut out for them. That’s the hand they’ve been dealt. It’s not as though they have any choice in the matter. The logistics of this work can be tough to say the least, depending on what you’re looking for, where, and when. The size of the area in this case is very very big. I can’t imagine any other equipment doing a better job than what they’ve been using working with the CT State Police (unless of course you’re JFK, Jr. and your uncle can call in the Navy with their gear, navy divers, and military vessels like the USS Grapple and an unlimited budget looking for pieces of a plane and send taxpayers the tab-which he did).

Bodies are as hard as it gets to find with SSS if for no other reason, size. Finding pipelines, underwater phone cables, ships, planes, large anchors and of course vessels among other pretty identifiable targets is easy compared to this task. To put this into perspective, I was watching TV some about 6 months ago when a professional search team running hardcore SSS had a bear of a time locating a 900 foot vessel in deep water. They had the approximate area, scanned both left & right simultaneously to perhaps ½ mile each way, and the captain was quoted as saying something to the effect of...”you’d think we could hit this thing easily enough-it’s 900 feet long-but no.” They found it only after going back over a tiny area they missed when they were “mowing the lawn”.

I’ve looked at the depths around Welch and they vary a lot, posing the same problems that the waters of East Rattlesnake posed. This is just the nature of the entire lakes region if not all of New England. And I have no idea what the bottom is like in the search area. Keep in mind the towfish has to stay at whatever depth the operator deems appropriate off the bottom. The altitude used off Rattlesnake was 20-30 feet in what was usually 130 feet of water. Slamming it into rocks or other objects is always a risk. Our tow line had a 2 ton tensile strength for this reason even though the fish only weighed about 60 lbs..

E. Rattlesnake was a nightmare of rock, mud, silt, cracks, crevices, house-size boulders, and trees-some sticking out horizontally from the shore-great way to tangle a towfish. There was little uniformity, making the unexpected, routine. As with Fred Surrette, if the object is well into a crack or crevice, it will likely never appear on SSS, ever. Divers may be the only solution-but where do you dive?

I’ve experimented with my own SSS unit, capturing the images below of dive buddies last August in the CT River down in Gill, MA under the French King Bridge. The bottom was clean washed rock and gravel-no weeds, grass, mud-nothing-which actually isn’t all that good for a background. Take a good look at the images and find the diver. It’s the horizontal shadow in both images. Now OF COURSE ¼” wetsuits will absorb a sonar wave big-time, but nonetheless my dive buddy was only in about 15 feet of water and well within the 50 foot scan range at 455kHz I was set to-close by. And yet she was nearly invisible. Bodies can pose similar problems of their own. I’m told the Brits have subs covered in rubber for just this reason.

I wish the searchers the best and thought my input my clarify some of the challenges they face.

DRH · 11-02-2006, 08:38 PM

The NH Fish and Game Dept. issued the following news release this afternoon:

==================================================
News from the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department
November 2, 2006
Phone: (603) 271-3211
Email: info@wildlife.state.nh.us
For information and online licenses, visit http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us

* * * * * * *
CONTACT:
Lt. James Goss: (603) 271-3361
Capt. Martin Garabedian: (603) 271-3128
Jane Vachon: (603) 271-3211
November 2, 2006

WINNIPESAUKEE SEARCH SUSPENDED

CONCORD, N.H. -- Search operations were suspended today in the effort to recover the body of James Sylvestre, age 45, of Hooksett, N.H., who is presumed drowned after falling overboard from the M/S Mount Washington excursion ship on October 28, 2006, on Lake Winnipesaukee.

The recovery effort was brought to a close after an extensive search of approximately one mile along the route of the M/S Mount Washington, conducted by New Hampshire Fish and Game Department divers and Connecticut State Police troopers operating an underwater side-scan sonar unit, turned up no sign of the missing man. The search was concentrated between Welch and Rattlesnake islands, an area with water depths of 50 to 100 feet.

"We had to suspend the search because of the large size of the potential search area and the fact that nothing of significance had been found after several days," said Lt. James Goss of New Hampshire Fish and Game Law Enforcement, who coordinated the recovery effort. "We know how difficult these situations are for the families, and regret we could not bring the search to a successful conclusion."

New Hampshire Fish and Game Conservation Officers and the New Hampshire Marine Patrol were joined in the search and recovery effort by the Connecticut State Police, who volunteered their services, as well as personnel from several local New Hampshire fire departments, including those of Laconia, Gilford, Center Harbor and Alton. The New Hampshire State Police also assisted, using the State Police helicopter to search the lake and shoreline.

B Mae's Resort Inn & Suites in Gilford donated lodging for the Connecticut State Police assisting in the effort.

The N.H. Marine Patrol is investigating the incident.

No further information is available at this time.

-###-

--
Copyright 2006 New Hampshire Fish and Game Department, 11 Hazen Drive, Concord, NH 03301.

Orion · 11-02-2006, 08:58 PM

Thanks Diver1111 for the enlightening demonstration.

Lin · 11-03-2006, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orion

Thanks Diver1111 for the enlightening demonstration.

I agree and if you didn't point out the shadows as being the diver I wouldn't have known. Great explanation and visual presentation on the scanners.

Mr. V · 11-03-2006, 11:00 AM

I wonder what the chances are that the victim's body will rise to the surface of its own accord, say after a few weeks?

Might the cold water prevent that from happening?

Certainly once the ice arrives there will be no chance of recovery until next year.

Sad, all the way around: recovery / Christian burial is obviously the preferred conclusion.

Blue Thunder · 11-06-2006, 08:55 AM

Without getting too graphic here and assuming Mr. Sylvestre is not entangled in any underwater debris, the cold water will eventually have an "effect" on the body and it will surface on it's own exactly the same as Mr. Surrette earlier this year. There is no real time frame except that, in my experience, it will be at least 2 weeks from submersion. I add my thoughts and prayers to the family as others have previously.

BT

Mee-n-Mac · 11-06-2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

Without getting too graphic here and assuming Mr. Sylvestre is not entangled in any underwater debris, the cold water will eventually have an "effect" on the body and it will surface on it's own exactly the same as Mr. Surrette earlier this year. There is no real time frame except that, in my experience, it will be at least 2 weeks from submersion. I add my thoughts and prayers to the family as others have previously.

BT

And that is why it's so hard on the families, they just don't know when, and even for sure if, their lost one will be recovered. Knowing the currents, if they are large enough to matter, might help but as Diver1111 shows it's just incredibly hard to "see" what's down there amongst Winni's uneven bottom and shorelines. Previously someone had a smart suggestion of using a fishing net and this might help in certain areas but I'll guess that most of the bottom is so full of snags that it's not practical. A higher resolution SSS might be possible but probably only with the Navy's budget. Prior mention of cadaver sniffing dogs to locate victims, even when underwater, makes me wonder if some "artificial nose" couldn't be manufactured and incorported onto a towfish or ROV ? A swarm of divers searching the bottom would probably work but wouldn't be practical so that makes me wonder about a swarm of ROV's (working ceaselessly) couldn't somehow be utilized (probably just as impractical as the diving team) ? It's a good thing this type of loss and recovery isn't very common here but at the same time that, and the obstacles mentioned previously, contrive to hinder any forward progress on how the whole recovery process might be made to work better. If it were easy to do so, it would have been done already. Still I keep it on a back burner in my brain so that perhaps some confluence of info might give me some magic insight as to what could be done.

jrc · 11-06-2006, 07:38 PM

I don't know where I read it, maybe here. The general rule seems to be, that after a person drowns and sinks. Some time later, usually a week to a month depending on environmental issues, the body floats to the surface. After a some number of days on surface the body will sink again. At that point it's gone forever, unless someone go down and finds it. This time of year the lake is deserted. There's a good chance that no one will see it and it might be lost forever.

I don't know the technology involved with an artificial nose, but if the chemical compounds of a body are distinct enough, I'm sure technology could be designed. There are bound to be a lot of false alarms, humans are not the most numerous organisms to drown in the lake.

Is it just me, or is three drownings a lot for one year?

Pineedles · 11-06-2006, 08:26 PM

I'm sorry, but all this leaves me a bit heartsick.

10-28-2006, 10:06 PM	#1
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	Man overboard from the mount! Channel 9 (WMUR Manchester) is reporting one person overboard and missing near Welch Island. Apparently fell off the Mount on its Halloween Cruise. Promising more details as they become available.....

10-28-2006, 10:33 PM	#2
Pepper Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Laconia, NH Posts: 1,284 Thanks: 409 Thanked 155 Times in 40 Posts	Scanner traffic indicates that there are boats from Gilford, Alton, Laconia and Moultonboro out searching. I've not heard anything to indicate that they've located anyone yet, but I was away from the scanner for a bit so please don't consider that gospel. I'll be listening for a while longer, and if I hear anything I'll post back. Edit: For those who care, the call went out at just a minute or two after 10:00PM, and there were search boats in the water within minutes! Lakes Region Dispatch does an amazing job of managing traffic in these types of situations, and responders from multiple municipalities sprung into action immediately. We're very blessed to have such a cooperative spirit among the responders of various communities, and such efficient call management from the dispatch center. __________________ Never waste time lamenting what was. Simply celebrate what is!

10-28-2006, 11:47 PM	#3
Pepper Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Laconia, NH Posts: 1,284 Thanks: 409 Thanked 155 Times in 40 Posts	Search terminated for the evening Lakes Region Dispatch just reported that the search has been terminated for tonight. My prayers are with all those who engaged in the search thus far, will engage in further searching tomorrow, and of course with the person who remains in the water. So scary. __________________ Never waste time lamenting what was. Simply celebrate what is!

10-29-2006, 06:30 AM	#4
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	Early news coverage: First short article to appear in the FOSTER'S/CITIZEN. The MANCHESTER UNION LEADER also contains a very short story on their respective web site.

10-29-2006, 07:41 AM	#5
jlrm73 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 62 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yikes.... So scary! I was listening to the scanner, too, Pepper. I second your post, Lakes Region did a great job. I hope for good news today. Sad.

10-29-2006, 08:17 AM	#6
Fargo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Lake Winni Posts: 215 Thanks: 36 Thanked 130 Times in 38 Posts	overboard Just spoke with my brother who was on the cruise last night and just saw the man's feet go over the rail near the bow. He's the one that reported it to the captain. He's pretty shaken up this morning about the whole thing.

10-29-2006, 08:52 AM	#7
Paugus Bay Resident Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Gilmanton, NH Posts: 754 Thanks: 136 Thanked 92 Times in 51 Posts	We were on the boat as well. The lake was suprisingly calm considering the weather earlier in the day. We spent about a hour "drifting" in the broads, at the time, not knowing why. Thoughts and prayers for those involved. Last edited by Paugus Bay Resident; 10-29-2006 at 09:57 AM.

10-29-2006, 09:37 AM	#8
Weirs guy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Weirs Beach, NH Posts: 1,067 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Its funny, my plan was to post this morning that despite all the bad weather warnings the Mount slip out last night into a quiet, moon light night. Sounds like this accident has nothing to do with weather at all. Hopefully we will get good news on the outcome. __________________ Is it bikeweek yet? Now?

10-29-2006, 10:43 AM	#9
catman2 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I heard the first call as well and was hoping it was a false call. We can only hope and pray the guy made it to an island and somehow found shelter. I also feel for the rescue crews....I can't imagine trying to search for someone in the dark and the weather conditons etc. Special thoughts to them as well. We were just talking about this last weekend. Does anyone know if this has happened before? I have heard of kids jumping off in the summer....in the daylight but not this time of year etc! A real sad way to end the season! The Mount crew does such a great job during the season it must be very hard for them too! My thoughts to all involved!

10-29-2006, 11:52 AM	#11
KonaChick Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 518 Thanks: 19 Thanked 62 Times in 15 Posts	GWC...i bet you're going to be a "troll" for Halloween!

10-29-2006, 11:53 AM	#12
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	Search suspended again due to weather.... According to WMUR-TV the search commenced again today at sunrise, but was suspended at around 11:00 am this morning due to poor weather conditions.

10-29-2006, 12:51 PM	#13
Weirs guy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Weirs Beach, NH Posts: 1,067 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Just got back from a walk on the boardwalk and theres a sign in the Mounts ticket office that reads: Sunday, October 29th Due to weather conditions, the MOUNT will not be cruising today. See you in 2007! Take it for what its worth, a sad day all around. __________________ Is it bikeweek yet? Now?

10-29-2006, 01:07 PM	#14
RumGuy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Cape Cod / W.Alton Posts: 76 Thanks: 4 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	Prank I couldn't help but wonder if this was a Haloween prank in the worst fashion. I wonder if anyone actually saw the PERSON standing at the rail, or if the witness saw legs and feet. With that, I am not discrediting the witness in any way, but merely stating that the witness may have fallen into the prank as it was planned. I know that I would have myself. It seems odd that nothing of this sort has happened througout the summer, with plenty of alcohol flowing . Now, in costume season......

10-29-2006, 02:09 PM	#16
legend Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	seeking information My name is Roger Amsden. I am a news correspondent for the Union Leader and am looking for information regarding the man overboard on the Mount. You can e-mail me at roger@weirs.com or call me at 366-2357 or 524-8078. Any information which helps me get the facts straight would be greatly appreciated. Legend

10-30-2006, 01:43 AM	#18
Mr. V Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: the left coast (Portland)and West Alton Posts: 1,326 Thanks: 61 Thanked 235 Times in 159 Posts	Just wondering: if this person went overboard near the bow, wouldn't he have more likely than not been run over by the boat and perhaps drawn into the propellors? Not much chance of a happy ending on this one.

10-30-2006, 05:43 AM	#19
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	Manchester Union Leader update... ....the Manchester Union Leader has an updated story this morning reporting that the individual in question fell from the lower portion of the vessel. While the WMUR website has yet to be updated their newsdesk is reporting this morning that the search should commence again today at around 8:00 am. Edit: add latest update from the Citizen on-line. Last edited by Skip; 10-30-2006 at 06:54 AM.

10-30-2006, 02:31 PM	#22
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Man Identified. WMUR.com has identified the victim as a 45 year old Hooksett man. http://www.wmur.com/news/10189843/detail.html __________________ SIKSUKR

10-30-2006, 03:04 PM	#23
atimmins Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	media inquiry The man has been identified as James Sylvestre. The search is about over for today but will resume on Tuesday. I am a reporter for the Concord Monitor and I am trying to write a story about the party on the Mount and Mr. Sylvestre that describes his as more than only the man who went overboard. If any of his friends are reading and can add some more positive details about Mr. Sylvestre's life, can they reach me at 369-3323 or atimmins@cmonitor.com? Thank you, Annmarie Timmins

10-30-2006, 05:52 PM	#24
Weirs guy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Weirs Beach, NH Posts: 1,067 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Annmarie Timmins has done some wonderful work for a mutual friend of hers and mine, the Silva family of Loudon. Hopefully someone here can help her put together a wonderful piece on the victim of this accident as well. Best of luck Annmarie. __________________ Is it bikeweek yet? Now?

10-31-2006, 08:52 AM	#27
DRH Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Meredith Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 1,183 Thanked 655 Times in 173 Posts	Search The lake is finally calm this morning, after three days of high winds. A NH Fish & Game helicopter is currently slowly searching the area between Rattlesnake and Sleepers Islands, and between the islands and Smalls Cove and Minge Cove in West Alton. Edit: According to the Laconia Citizen, the helicopter we saw is owned by the NH State Police, not the Fish and Game Dept. __________________ DRH Last edited by DRH; 11-02-2006 at 02:37 PM.

10-31-2006, 02:49 PM	#31
dmjr Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 273 Thanks: 2 Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts	Just got back from EM Heath Hardware and saw the Mount is back in the winter dock. It amazes that me that someone could fall over the lower rail unless they loss there footing.

10-31-2006, 03:30 PM	#32
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Cow Island Posts: 914 Thanks: 602 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	Wind could be a factor? Looking at the bow configuration, if the Mount was making a turn and it was still very windy that night, the wind could pocket in that space between the upper and lower decks ahead of that bulkhead, and create a gust which could catch someone off guard as it went through the turn. Winds were still around 15-20 mph at that time. Maybe a costume which could catch the wind as well?

10-31-2006, 05:11 PM	#34
DRH Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Meredith Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 1,183 Thanked 655 Times in 173 Posts	NH Fish & Game News Release The NH Fish and Game Dept. issued the following news release this afternoon: ================================================== ===== News from the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department October 31, 2006 Phone: (603) 271-3211 Email: info@wildlife.state.nh.us For information and online licenses, visit http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us * * * * * * * CONTACT: Capt. Martin Garabedian: (603) 271-3361 Liza Poinier: (603) 271-3211 October 31, 2006 SEARCH FOR HOOKSETT MAN CONTINUES ON LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE CONCORD, N.H. -- Search operations continued today for the recovery of James Sylvestre, age 45, of Hooksett, New Hampshire, who is presumed drowned after falling overboard from the M/S Mount Washington excursion ship on Saturday night, October 28, 2006, on Lake Winnipesaukee. Search efforts were hampered on Sunday and Monday due to the high winds and rough water conditions. Tuesday, New Hampshire Fish and Game and N.H. Marine Patrol officers were joined in the search effort by New Hampshire and Connecticut State Police. The N.H. State Police helicopter conducted a search of the lake and shoreline in the area of Rattlesnake Island. Connecticut State Police are using a specialized underwater side-scan sonar unit capable of searching large areas of open water. The search area is concentrated in the area of Welch and Rattlesnake islands, with water depths of 50 to 100 feet. The search will continue until dark, and if necessary, will resume on Wednesday morning, November 1. N.H. Marine Patrol is conducting an investigation into the incident. Lt. James Goss of the N.H. Fish and Game Department is conducting the recovery effort. No further information is available at this time. -###- -- Copyright 2006 New Hampshire Fish and Game Department, 11 Hazen Drive, Concord, NH 03301. Comments or questions concerning this list should be directed to lpoinier@wildlife.state.nh.us. __________________ DRH

10-31-2006, 08:17 PM	#35
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,535 Thanks: 1,059 Thanked 652 Times in 363 Posts	News People Let's let the "reporters" research the facts and not let this forum be an easy source for them to pickup idle chatter which may or not be true. No criticism of anyone intended. I've seen too many inquiries by reporters inviting us to "talk" and thereby invite speculation quotes that are reported as facts.

10-31-2006, 10:34 PM	#37
dmjr Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 273 Thanks: 2 Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts	Just read the Concord Monitor online. They mentioned something about looking the safety records. Has the Mount had any mishaps that could reported?

11-01-2006, 06:36 AM	#38
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,084 Thanks: 1,267 Thanked 557 Times in 286 Posts	Pineneedles: I am pretty sure that a reporter wouldn't take informaton directly from the web site. Rather, they are looking for people who might have been involved in the incident to intreview as potential sources of information.

11-01-2006, 09:18 PM	#41
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,535 Thanks: 1,059 Thanked 652 Times in 363 Posts	Who's on first? Orion, I didn't mean that we shouldn't talk about it on the forum. I just wanted to speak to the issue of the press using out of context quotes that were not part of a consented to interview. Speculation is fine, but we all know that what we say can get twisted.

11-02-2006, 06:06 AM	#42
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	Today's update.... Coverage from the Manchester Union Leader on yesterday's search efforts. And this story in today's Citizen/Foster's Daily Democrat: Questions remain... Last edited by Skip; 11-02-2006 at 10:07 AM.

11-02-2006, 01:09 PM	#43
Mee-n-Mac Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,943 Thanks: 23 Thanked 111 Times in 51 Posts	S S S Well did they say they were using a borrowed sidescan sonar ? Hmmm, I wonder where they got that idea. More seriously I hope they get lucky and can recover the victim before too long. This has rekindled my thinking re: if there might be a better way to go about a search/recovery like this. SSS and aerial viewing are good tools but there's just too many ways for someone to go undetected. The wait & see approach is awfully hard on the family. I don't know any better way to go about it but still I wonder if the 2 incidents this year might be the impetus for some creative thinking. __________________ Mee'n'Mac "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by simple stupidity or ignorance. The latter are a lot more common than the former." - RAH

11-02-2006, 02:44 PM	#45
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Search called off WMUR has an article which says they used a special sonar unit and were unsuccessfull. __________________ SIKSUKR

11-02-2006, 06:33 PM	#46
Coolbreeze Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 332 Thanks: 0 Thanked 51 Times in 26 Posts	In the fire service here in Pa we use Thermal imaging cameras during our initial searches. Once a body cools it is(the camera) virtually useless. Most Coast Guard helos have a similar camera called a Flir (pronounced fleer) camera. It is another tool to help in ititial searches. Both cameras show hot objects in their environments However quite expensive. Our original camera was about 15000 dollars. They since have come down in price a bit. We can't over state how important these tools are to us in the fire service. My prayers to the family of the lost person.

11-02-2006, 06:55 PM	#47
Diver1111 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Exeter NH Posts: 596 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,027 Times in 224 Posts	SSS challenges As with the search for Fred Surrette, F&G and other authorities have their work cut out for them. That’s the hand they’ve been dealt. It’s not as though they have any choice in the matter. The logistics of this work can be tough to say the least, depending on what you’re looking for, where, and when. The size of the area in this case is very very big. I can’t imagine any other equipment doing a better job than what they’ve been using working with the CT State Police (unless of course you’re JFK, Jr. and your uncle can call in the Navy with their gear, navy divers, and military vessels like the USS Grapple and an unlimited budget looking for pieces of a plane and send taxpayers the tab-which he did). Bodies are as hard as it gets to find with SSS if for no other reason, size. Finding pipelines, underwater phone cables, ships, planes, large anchors and of course vessels among other pretty identifiable targets is easy compared to this task. To put this into perspective, I was watching TV some about 6 months ago when a professional search team running hardcore SSS had a bear of a time locating a 900 foot vessel in deep water. They had the approximate area, scanned both left & right simultaneously to perhaps ½ mile each way, and the captain was quoted as saying something to the effect of...”you’d think we could hit this thing easily enough-it’s 900 feet long-but no.” They found it only after going back over a tiny area they missed when they were “mowing the lawn”. I’ve looked at the depths around Welch and they vary a lot, posing the same problems that the waters of East Rattlesnake posed. This is just the nature of the entire lakes region if not all of New England. And I have no idea what the bottom is like in the search area. Keep in mind the towfish has to stay at whatever depth the operator deems appropriate off the bottom. The altitude used off Rattlesnake was 20-30 feet in what was usually 130 feet of water. Slamming it into rocks or other objects is always a risk. Our tow line had a 2 ton tensile strength for this reason even though the fish only weighed about 60 lbs.. E. Rattlesnake was a nightmare of rock, mud, silt, cracks, crevices, house-size boulders, and trees-some sticking out horizontally from the shore-great way to tangle a towfish. There was little uniformity, making the unexpected, routine. As with Fred Surrette, if the object is well into a crack or crevice, it will likely never appear on SSS, ever. Divers may be the only solution-but where do you dive? I’ve experimented with my own SSS unit, capturing the images below of dive buddies last August in the CT River down in Gill, MA under the French King Bridge. The bottom was clean washed rock and gravel-no weeds, grass, mud-nothing-which actually isn’t all that good for a background. Take a good look at the images and find the diver. It’s the horizontal shadow in both images. Now OF COURSE ¼” wetsuits will absorb a sonar wave big-time, but nonetheless my dive buddy was only in about 15 feet of water and well within the 50 foot scan range at 455kHz I was set to-close by. And yet she was nearly invisible. Bodies can pose similar problems of their own. I’m told the Brits have subs covered in rubber for just this reason. I wish the searchers the best and thought my input my clarify some of the challenges they face. Attached Images

11-02-2006, 08:38 PM	#48
DRH Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Meredith Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 1,183 Thanked 655 Times in 173 Posts	Search Suspended The NH Fish and Game Dept. issued the following news release this afternoon: ================================================== News from the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department November 2, 2006 Phone: (603) 271-3211 Email: info@wildlife.state.nh.us For information and online licenses, visit http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us * * * * * * * CONTACT: Lt. James Goss: (603) 271-3361 Capt. Martin Garabedian: (603) 271-3128 Jane Vachon: (603) 271-3211 November 2, 2006 WINNIPESAUKEE SEARCH SUSPENDED CONCORD, N.H. -- Search operations were suspended today in the effort to recover the body of James Sylvestre, age 45, of Hooksett, N.H., who is presumed drowned after falling overboard from the M/S Mount Washington excursion ship on October 28, 2006, on Lake Winnipesaukee. The recovery effort was brought to a close after an extensive search of approximately one mile along the route of the M/S Mount Washington, conducted by New Hampshire Fish and Game Department divers and Connecticut State Police troopers operating an underwater side-scan sonar unit, turned up no sign of the missing man. The search was concentrated between Welch and Rattlesnake islands, an area with water depths of 50 to 100 feet. "We had to suspend the search because of the large size of the potential search area and the fact that nothing of significance had been found after several days," said Lt. James Goss of New Hampshire Fish and Game Law Enforcement, who coordinated the recovery effort. "We know how difficult these situations are for the families, and regret we could not bring the search to a successful conclusion." New Hampshire Fish and Game Conservation Officers and the New Hampshire Marine Patrol were joined in the search and recovery effort by the Connecticut State Police, who volunteered their services, as well as personnel from several local New Hampshire fire departments, including those of Laconia, Gilford, Center Harbor and Alton. The New Hampshire State Police also assisted, using the State Police helicopter to search the lake and shoreline. B Mae's Resort Inn & Suites in Gilford donated lodging for the Connecticut State Police assisting in the effort. The N.H. Marine Patrol is investigating the incident. No further information is available at this time. -###- -- Copyright 2006 New Hampshire Fish and Game Department, 11 Hazen Drive, Concord, NH 03301. __________________ DRH

11-02-2006, 08:58 PM	#49
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Cow Island Posts: 914 Thanks: 602 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	Excellent tutorial Thanks Diver1111 for the enlightening demonstration.

11-03-2006, 11:00 AM	#51
Mr. V Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: the left coast (Portland)and West Alton Posts: 1,326 Thanks: 61 Thanked 235 Times in 159 Posts	I wonder what the chances are that the victim's body will rise to the surface of its own accord, say after a few weeks? Might the cold water prevent that from happening? Certainly once the ice arrives there will be no chance of recovery until next year. Sad, all the way around: recovery / Christian burial is obviously the preferred conclusion.