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Old 09-22-2019, 05:09 PM   #1
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Default Ragged island overnight

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Old 09-22-2019, 05:12 PM   #2
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Has anyone had experience staying the night on the dock at ragged? Please donít go into the thatís illegal deal. Stayed at the Stonedam dock this weekend and it was epic to be in complete peace. After Labor Day is a different lake completely.


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Itís great till you get caught! Not the brightest thing to brag about either in an open forum...
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:22 PM   #3
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Please donít go into the thatís illegal deal.

Behavior like that ends up ruining things for everyone and shows a lack of respect for others.
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:26 PM   #4
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Behavior like that ends up ruining things for everyone and shows a lack of respect for others.
This.

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Old 09-22-2019, 06:35 PM   #5
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Default Dumb and disrespectdful

Dumb and disrespectful. Bandrews7 should get off the lake and off the Forum.
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Old 09-22-2019, 07:15 PM   #6
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The location of this person speaks volumes...
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Old 09-22-2019, 07:42 PM   #7
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It's a shame stuff like that is not allowed. Have fun, leave it better than you found it, don't confess to it publicly, and don't get caught.

If overnight (or longer) boating trips appeal to you, consider moving to the ocean. We do it all the time out of Hampton River Marina. It's awesome.
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Old 09-22-2019, 09:17 PM   #8
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So just how did this nonsense law about not sleeping overnight ever get on the books?

Not sure I understand how it is fundamentally different than boating on the lake 24 hrs/day so long as you don't actually sleep, and/or sleeping while docked or anchored during the day,,,

I'm sure there is some aspect I am missing so please enlighten me.
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Old 09-23-2019, 06:21 AM   #9
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Default Law subject to debate

However the marine patrol interpret differently. According to the wording of the statute any vessel with a galley and head shall not anchor overnight on inland waters in NH. Legally you can anchor overnight if you do not have a galley or head. But the marine patrol will not allow any boat(s) to anchor overnight.

Decades ago I use to anchor off Timber frequently but today I can't. Even without a head or galley.

A shorefront owner landed in court a few years ago when he allowed a friend to anchor overnight with permission in front of his property. Due to a technicality, since the boat was tied a registered mooring, he was not anchoring. The state beg to differ. I have not seen any change in the law nor have any new legislation was introduced. I expect to see some shat to happen in court with sleazy lawyers!
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Old 09-23-2019, 06:30 AM   #10
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Thankfully it not allowed
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Old 09-23-2019, 07:46 AM   #11
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The Braun Bay thread proves why a head would be an advantage

The cooler thread shows why a galley isn't necessary


I don't get it, unless the children or safety is involved in the argument.
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Old 09-23-2019, 09:06 AM   #12
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But you can sleep on a boat that is docked, even if itís a private dock, correct?


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Old 09-23-2019, 09:09 AM   #13
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Default Ragged island overnight

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But you can sleep on a boat that is docked, even if itís a private dock, correct?

My understanding is you can sleep on a boat that is not anchored. Docked is legal. If your boat is tied to a tree, itís legal. Youíd need permission from the landowner to use the tree.
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Old 09-23-2019, 09:36 AM   #14
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Thankfully it not allowed
What could go wrong?
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Old 09-23-2019, 10:54 AM   #15
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There is another aspect to this. The dock at Stonedam in on conservation land owned by The Lakes Region Conservation Trust. The LRCT also owns Ragged Island.
https://lrct.org/conserved-lands/

The public access policy allows for many types of enjoyment but does not allow any overnight use.

https://lrct.org/explorelearn/public-access-recreation/

Many members of this Forum are also LRCT members some making substantial contributions to allow LRCT to conserve land and/or to support maintenance. Some also volunteer time for annual clean up for places like Stonedam and Ragged.

If not for LRCT places like this would have been developed and there would be no public access period.

I find it offensive for someone violating the public access policy of these special places.

Alan
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Old 09-23-2019, 12:12 PM   #16
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There is another aspect to this. The dock at Stonedam in on conservation land owned by The Lakes Region Conservation Trust. The LRCT also owns Ragged Island.
https://lrct.org/conserved-lands/

The public access policy allows for many types of enjoyment but does not allow any overnight use.

https://lrct.org/explorelearn/public-access-recreation/

Many members of this Forum are also LRCT members some making substantial contributions to allow LRCT to conserve land and/or to support maintenance. Some also volunteer time for annual clean up for places like Stonedam and Ragged.

If not for LRCT places like this would have been developed and there would be no public access period.

I find it offensive for someone violating the public access policy of these special places.

Alan
Thank you Alan! We too are big supporters of the LRCT and your post is spot on!

Dan
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Old 09-23-2019, 12:13 PM   #17
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Default Public access

I see a parallel to open use of private property for snowmobile and OHRV trails, hiking, etc. When landowners find abuses, they close the land to all use. LRCT could do the same thing.
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Old 09-23-2019, 01:26 PM   #18
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I have mixed feelings about LRCT, for a number of reasons.

I remember when they were soliciting the public for money to buy the Castle in the Clouds. So as not to affront the snomobiling community and their contributions, they promised not to close any trails at the Castle. Right after they bought it, they closed all but one trail.
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Old 09-23-2019, 02:11 PM   #19
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I agree. My family has a working farm, we decided to conserve the land and approach LRCT. They wanted the farm close and curtail the hiking trails to the public. We deed it to Belknap Conservatory Trust. Now I am worried as there are talk of merging with LRCT. I ask the question of continued land use. LRCT will not respond. I refuse to support LRCT.
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I have mixed feelings about LRCT, for a number of reasons.

I remember when they were soliciting the public for money to buy the Castle in the Clouds. So as not to affront the snomobiling community and their contributions, they promised not to close any trails at the Castle. Right after they bought it, they closed all but one trail.
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Old 09-23-2019, 02:22 PM   #20
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I agree. My family has a working farm, we decided to conserve the land and approach LRCT. They wanted the farm close and curtail the hiking trails to the public. We deed it to Belknap Conservatory Trust. Now I am worried as there are talk of merging with LRCT. I ask the question of continued land use. LRCT will not respond. I refuse to support LRCT.

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Does your family allow camping on their conserved land? If not, why? Probably the same reason why the LRCT does not allow it at their docks and property....

Just sayin...

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Old 09-23-2019, 03:18 PM   #21
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Does your family allow camping on their conserved land? If not, why? Probably the same reason why the LRCT does not allow it at their docks and property....

Just sayin...

Dan
The point is, they have future control (unless the bequest/easement states otherwise.
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:25 PM   #22
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I agree. My family has a working farm, we decided to conserve the land and approach LRCT. They wanted the farm close and curtail the hiking trails to the public. We deed it to Belknap Conservatory Trust. Now I am worried as there are talk of merging with LRCT. I ask the question of continued land use. LRCT will not respond. I refuse to support LRCT.
Thank you for your generosity to the people of NH, and others. I know from family members how long it takes (sometimes years) to draft a good easement and have it be compatible with abutting easements.
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:46 PM   #23
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Thank you for your generosity to the people of NH, and others. I know from family members how long it takes (sometimes years) to draft a good easement and have it be compatible with abutting easements.
Agreed and understood...my point was some don’t understand why The LRCT does not open their docks / land to overnight boaters. I think Broadhoppers situation is a perfect example of how others who have land conserved in a public trust would not want overnight campers either.

The Broadhopper family should be commended for their land conservation efforts!!

Dan
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Old 09-23-2019, 05:55 PM   #24
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Agreed and understood...my point was some donít understand why The LRCT does not open their docks / land to overnight boaters. I think Broadhoppers situation is a perfect example of how others who have land conserved in a public trust would not want overnight campers either.

The Broadhopper family should be commended for their land conservation efforts!!

Dan
Quite the opposite. We want the farm to continue and we want the public to enjoy the land for recreational purpose. In fact there is a snowmobile corridor through a corner of the land. I don't feel that land should be shut off to the general public. Land is for all to enjoy. My philosophy is opposite LRCT's.
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Old 09-23-2019, 05:58 PM   #25
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Sorry I can see that my question was imprecise and there are 2 different issues of concern being discussed in this thread;
  • Docking and sleeping overnight on privately owned/held property and,
  • Anchoring and sleeping overnight on the lake

Clearly docking and doing anything on privately owned/held property without the owners permission is not acceptably (LRTC ownership or anyone) You just done do it without permission.

As for anchoring and sleeping overnight on the lake or any state owned land, thats a whole different matter, and I have not yet seen any argument that helps me understand why I or anyone should support this rule that you cant sleep on the lake overnight, nor do I currently understand how it came to be.

Respecting home owners privacy, I think some reasonable buffer from any lot with a home should be defined (such as our 150' rule) but beyond that, I am still at a loss to understand the no anchoring/sleeping overnight on the lake rule.

Other arguments about the LRCT rules are separate and apart from the original issues raised in this thread; barring an emergency, no reasonable argument can be made for infringing on privately owned/held land, and I have yet to see any reasonable argument for prohibiting anchoring/sleeping on the lake as a whole.

Open to persuasive and reasonable counter points
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Old 09-23-2019, 06:10 PM   #26
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Quite the opposite. We want the farm to continue and we want the public to enjoy the land for recreational purpose. In fact there is a snowmobile corridor through a corner of the land. I don't feel that land should be shut off to the general public. Land is for all to enjoy. My philosophy is opposite LRCT's.
Yes I understand that and commend you for it, however my questions is / was do you or would you allow the public to camp / overnight guests on the property? If not why? This is an legit question.

Thanks!

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Old 09-23-2019, 06:43 PM   #27
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I have yet to see any reasonable argument for prohibiting anchoring/sleeping on the lake as a whole.

If anchoring/sleeping were permitted, there is risk that the lake would be overrun with houseboats or cabin cruisers owned by people without property or dock space. This might impact the environment due to overuse of the lake and potentially cause navigation issues in popular areas.
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Old 09-23-2019, 07:33 PM   #28
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I have mixed feelings about LRCT, for a number of reasons.

I remember when they were soliciting the public for money to buy the Castle in the Clouds. So as not to affront the snomobiling community and their contributions, they promised not to close any trails at the Castle. Right after they bought it, they closed all but one trail.
I think LRCT is terrific, and it's OK with me if you disagree with them, you have every right to do so. But those are separate matters.

It's not OK to disrespect a landowner's rights, and they are the landowner here
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Old 09-23-2019, 07:39 PM   #29
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If anchoring/sleeping were permitted, there is risk that the lake would be overrun with houseboats or cabin cruisers owned by people without property or dock space. This might impact the environment due to overuse of the lake and potentially cause navigation issues in popular areas.
I kinda doubt it as you almost cant get a boat on the lake anymore unless you keep it at a marina. Lack of ramp access and trailer parking has forced me to make the switch to valet storage. And its not inexpensive!

So I personally dont see any possibility of houseboats or cabin cruisers inundating the lake but not stored at a marina, just so they can trailer to the lake to try to find a ramp and parking for a day or two so they can sleep on the lake while anchored. Makes no sense to me. Seems more like the fear of black rifles and big gulp soda sizes that is overtaking common sense across the country.

But thats my opinion and maybe worth about .0001% of the Winnipesaukee boating population.
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Old 09-23-2019, 07:51 PM   #30
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Totally agree with Dbreskin. The last thing we need is a bunch of yahoos anchoring in front of Your place all night drinking beer and playing music and you know that would happen. Look at knuckleheads out there each day that trailer to the lake for a day trip that could decide to toss the anchor after a day bud talls. But then and again looking at the way some drive on the lake, including the fellow who put his boat on the breakwater couple weeks ago, think of the safety issue with anchored boats out there at night.
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Old 09-23-2019, 09:46 PM   #31
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Totally agree with Dbreskin. The last thing we need is a bunch of yahoos anchoring in front of Your place all night drinking beer and playing music and you know that would happen. Look at knuckleheads out there each day that trailer to the lake for a day trip that could decide to toss the anchor after a day bud talls. But then and again looking at the way some drive on the lake, including the fellow who put his boat on the breakwater couple weeks ago, think of the safety issue with anchored boats out there at night.
Sorry as a life long day-boater who actually prefers to trailer my boat (and would still do so if it were possible) I just dont see this as a genuine threat.

With every passing year and the constant closing of ramp access to the lake it just doesnt seem too likely.

Seriously missing Ames Farm access, then Alton Bay, and when I passed WAM recently I saw they were charging $40.00 to launch OUCH,,,

So the threat of trailer boaters ruining the lake by anchoring and sleeping on Winnipesaukee just sounds like more fear mongering to me.

And how you attribute poorly behaved boaters as trailer boaters is not clear to me. Quite the opposite the worst boaters I observe are the ones who seem to feel like they own the lake because they financed a huge boat loan and big mortgage and now act like pompous jerks.

Working class families looking for a fun day on the lake are being shut out by lack of ramp access, and by the actions of the yacht club crowd and wake and surfboat crowd churning the waters to unusable levels and blasting us with their concert level speakers.

Looks like another classic case of everyone point at the other guy as the problem.
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Old 09-23-2019, 09:54 PM   #32
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What could go wrong?


It already has,,,

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Old 09-24-2019, 04:56 AM   #33
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Never noticed how their radar antenna is not even close to level. Like it is pointed to swimmers in front, and UFO's aft !
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Old 09-24-2019, 05:02 AM   #34
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I think LRCT is terrific, and it's OK with me if you disagree with them, you have every right to do so. But those are separate matters.

It's not OK to disrespect a landowner's rights, and they are the landowner here
I don't nor did I imply in my post, disrespecting a land owners right. I was pointing out my disgust about raising funds promising one thing, then as soon as you get the $$, doing the opposite.

As a matter of fact, I won a suit against them for disrespecting my land rights.
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Old 09-24-2019, 05:29 AM   #35
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Never noticed how their radar antenna is not even close to level. Like it is pointed to swimmers in front, and UFO's aft !
Good catch, guess someone has to keep track of those pesky swimmers from the UFOs.

Maybe thats the true purpose of this thing.

I've seen some strange things on the lake over the last 50+ years but this one tops them all so far.
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Old 09-24-2019, 05:58 AM   #36
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Does your family allow camping on their conserved land? If not, why? Probably the same reason why the LRCT does not allow it at their docks and property....

Just sayin...

Dan
Sorry I misrepresent you Dan. No we do not allow overnight camping. We are not equip for it nor do we have emergency access in case. We did permit overnight youth organization activities, something LRCT condemn.

Again sorry.
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:25 AM   #37
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Never noticed how their radar antenna is not even close to level. Like it is pointed to swimmers in front, and UFO's aft !
Probably not a radar array on the roof. More likely a TV receiver for Dish or DirectTV, like you see on RVs.

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Old 09-24-2019, 07:43 AM   #38
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Sorry xcr but Iíll differ on opinion. Been on that lake over 50 years and what we see now is unthought of back 20 years ago. Not saying it will be rampant but it would happen for sure. Wasnít singling our day trippers just used that for example.
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:01 AM   #39
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Sorry xcr but I’ll differ on opinion. Been on that lake over 50 years and what we see now is unthought of back 20 years ago. Not saying it will be rampant but it would happen for sure. Wasn’t singling our day trippers just used that for example.
Ok by me, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I have mine and they differ. No worries here.

As for what we see now (a changed lake from 20+ years ago), I agree! I think were we part company is what we see and why.

What I see is a lake full of "new boaters" that dont follow any rules, and boaters of any vintage that are rude, obnoxious, and grossly unsafe, and I believe most of them own homes on the lake or keep their boats in a marina on the lake. I constantly see them taking off from their docks or marinas like wannabe NASCAR drivers, with boats full of people, not adhering to the most basic safety standards.

At this point I will no longer boat on Winnipesaukee on Saturdays, and even Sundays are becoming a problem.

Rarely do I see anyone with large boats (that you might be capable of sleeping on, or people interested in doing so) launching from trailers. Its just too hard to trailer the size boats we see on Winnipesaukee and there are just too few places to launch from and park a truck and trailer and do so for a price a working family can afford on a regular basis. As for trailer boaters, I mostly see families trailering their modest size boats and then taking them home at the end of the day. Not dudes looking to party hard and find a place to drop anchor when they are on the verge of passing out.

You may be seeing something different.

Clearly the lake has evolved, some of it not to my liking, but it is still a place that I cherish.

And I recognize people have different preferences;

I thoroughly enjoy a whiff of 2-cycle oil from an old outboard staring up first thing in the morning and the sound of a thru-hull exhaust on an old jet boat, but I have no use to hear anyone's music blasting across the lake.

You may have a very different set of likes and dislikes, and that ok, so long as we both respect each others reasonable boundaries.

What I worry about is restrictive rules/laws based on fear mongering and/or the few instances of serious problems. I mostly shrug off the obnoxious idiots, I guess I assume they will eventually move on to the next thing that allows them to show off.

But I dont live there every day, so again, you may be seeing something different and more of it.

ATB
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:16 AM   #40
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Rarely do I see anyone with large boats (that you might be capable of sleeping on, or people interested in doing so) launching from trailers.
Perhaps the reason you don’t see large boats being trailered is because they can’t anchor overnight. If the rule changes then the frequency of large boats being trailered may change.
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:22 AM   #41
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XCR- Totally agree with your thoughts on response. Now consider this:

"What I see is a lake full of "new boaters" that dont follow any rules, and boaters of any vintage that are rude, obnoxious, and grossly unsafe, and I believe most of them own homes on the lake or keep their boats in a marina on the lake. I constantly see them taking off from their docks or marinas like wannabe NASCAR drivers, with boats full of people, not adhering to the most basic safety standards"

With some number of boats each weekend say 100 anchored for a weekend overnight...

Anyways, it not legal so I guess a moot point.
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:32 AM   #42
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Perhaps the reason you donít see large boats being trailered is because they canít anchor overnight. If the rule changes then the frequency of large boats being trailered may change.
No capacity exists to bring them in at the moment if you wanted them.

You would need to add ramps and a lot of parking and at reasonable prices.

And we know thats not happening!

Sadly the lake is not accessible to a lot of people, and that is just the way it will stay.
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:34 AM   #43
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Anyways, it not legal so I guess a moot point.
And not likely to change.

I lose no sleep over it, just dont agree it was ever a significant problem or ever would be.
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:35 AM   #44
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No capacity exists to bring them in at the moment if you wanted them.

You would need to add ramps and a lot of parking and at reasonable prices.
Have you visited West Alton Marina lately? They have a lot of construction underway including new fuel docks.
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:53 AM   #45
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Have you visited West Alton Marina lately? They have a lot of construction underway including new fuel docks.
Thats where I launch from the last few years, and now its $40.00 for what should be free.

Not saying they are not entitled to whatever they can get for the use of their land and facilities, but the state and towns around the lake are grossly negligent in providing open access and parking.

Its an inexcusable travesty likely brought on by all my Massachusetts neighbors who have bought second homes on the lake over the last 30 years and want to keep others away, when in reality they are often the most obnoxious people on the lake.

Trust me I know my neighbors, the term Massholes fits most of us from MA perfectly. PERFECTLY
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:55 AM   #46
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Exclamation In Order to Camp OvernightóWhere it's Disallowed...

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Behavior like that ends up ruining things for everyone and shows a lack of respect for others.
Does this behavior also appear at our National Parks?

Nextóto ignore and disrespect New Hampshire rules?

Nextóto ignore and disrespect Lake Winnipesaukee RSAs?
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:56 AM   #47
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Thats where I launch from the last few years, and now its $40.00 for what should be free.

I heard that the commercial Alton ramps doubled their prices the day Downings Landing closed.
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Old 09-24-2019, 11:15 AM   #48
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I heard that the commercial Alton ramps doubled their prices the day Downings Landing closed.
Honestly I cant blame them, they are in business to make a profit in an industry where you work hard.

Its the towns and state that I am not happy with.

But we are now veering way of topic on this thread, and I'm sure this has all been debated before until the forums web-server is near full.

The past is the past and the future is controlled by the wealthy and the voices of change who I feel certain have their own best interest at heart
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Old 09-24-2019, 02:23 PM   #49
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There still are a few free or inexpensive launch sites on the lake.
Alton is still free, but nowhere to park a trailer except for Letter S Road.

West Alton is expanding again, new gas docks and another set of docks going in.
Pretty soon they will be as big as Mountain View.
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Old 09-24-2019, 02:38 PM   #50
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Honestly I cant blame them, they are in business to make a profit in an industry where you work hard.

Its the towns and state that I am not happy with.
What am I missing here? You said the marinas should be OK to make a living, but in an earlier post you thought launching at WAM should be free. You apparently don't pay taxes here (Andover, MA?) but you seem to trailer here and then you're upset with the state and the towns?

There's not much open land available suitable for building a launch ramp and parking lot. Let's say $2,000,000 for a small town like Alton to acquire land and build a ramp, parking area, public bathrooms etc. so you an drive up here and use it for free? And you're surprised the local voters won't support your wishes? They don't have that kind of money.
The state does do some development e.g. Downings. There is a Public Water Access Advisory Board (volunteers, mostly) who work with Fish and Game to locate, develop and maintain water access points all over the state. You're welcome to use them. Here's the map: https://wildlife.state.nh.us/maps/boatfish/index.html

It appears there is water access in Harold Parker State Forest, in Andover Massachusetts, and I think it is free. "Free" in this case means the government pays for it. LOL.
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Old 09-24-2019, 05:32 PM   #51
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What am I missing here? You said the marinas should be OK to make a living, but in an earlier post you thought launching at WAM should be free. You apparently don't pay taxes here (Andover, MA?) but you seem to trailer here and then you're upset with the state and the towns?

There's not much open land available suitable for building a launch ramp and parking lot. Let's say $2,000,000 for a small town like Alton to acquire land and build a ramp, parking area, public bathrooms etc. so you an drive up here and use it for free? And you're surprised the local voters won't support your wishes? They don't have that kind of money.
The state does do some development e.g. Downings. There is a Public Water Access Advisory Board (volunteers, mostly) who work with Fish and Game to locate, develop and maintain water access points all over the state. You're welcome to use them. Here's the map: https://wildlife.state.nh.us/maps/boatfish/index.html

It appears there is water access in Harold Parker State Forest, in Andover Massachusetts, and I think it is free. "Free" in this case means the government pays for it. LOL.
Maybe my english is not good, YES marinas should be able to charge what they want to use their ramps and park on their grounds and use their facilities!

That in no way should let the state and towns off the hook to provide no cost robust access and parking and facilities! Seems to me you even have state laws requiring the state to provide access.

The two situations are NOT mutually exclusive.

As for taxes, no I do not pay NH taxes, but I do register my boat in NH (which costs more than MA at last I checked) as I feel I should be paying for the resources I use. I also buy all my gas in NH (boat and truck) when we boat there, and we spend prolifically in NH to support NH businesses as opposed to buying on the internet and not patronizing local business.

As for the cost of ramps to local towns, thats what our registration is suppose to cover! Not pay for the Governor to go overseas on so called business trips or attend Governors conventions or other nonsense.

Fact is, the ramps were there, towns and the state simply failed to use their revenue to fund the required improvements and/or relocate them when there was a need, and in some cases blocked non-residents from using them.

You want the registration fees, and NH business want all the revenue day boaters and vacationers spend, but you turn your nose up at us like you bought the lake with your house. Sorry you didn't and you wouldn't have most of the amenities you have today if it were not for the day boaters and vacationers.

And the same goes for snowmobiling. The revenue generated for NH by these two activities is quite substantial and helps the residents enjoy much better amenities than they would ever have if not for the money coming from out of state.

Or maybe you would prefer all the taxes you pay in Massachusetts only to have places like Harold Parker where you cannot boat OR own land on the water. Well that would certainly resolve your anchoring and sleeping on the lake problem!

And again, we are way off topic on this thread. Sorry rant over, just had to get it out of my system. Let the daggers fly. I've said enough on this one,,,
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Old 09-24-2019, 05:43 PM   #52
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That in no way should let the state and towns off the hook to provide no cost robust access and parking and facilities!
Perhaps you meant *publicly funded* robust access.

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As for the cost of ramps to local towns, thats what our registration is suppose to cover!
Registration fees are paid to the state, not the town, arenít they?
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:27 PM   #53
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Sorry I misrepresent you Dan. No we do not allow overnight camping. We are not equip for it nor do we have emergency access in case. We did permit overnight youth organization activities, something LRCT condemn.

Again sorry.
Thanks for the reply BH! I knew the answer to the question when I asked but felt it was important for others to hear it first hand from those who have land in public trust And don’t allow overnight guests, camping, etc.

In regards to Ragged Island...I have seen first hand the senseless acts of vandalism that have occurred over the years on Ragged since it was open to the public. I can only imagine what would happen if they allowed overnight docking.
Had it not been for Mike and Muriel Robinette (island stewards) and the many volunteers who give their time each spring to cleanup the mess and fix whatever was vandalized, the island would of been closed long ago...

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Old 09-24-2019, 06:37 PM   #54
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Perhaps you meant *publicly funded* robust access.
Nope I meant FREE. Publicly funded means something different to me. I pay a registration to use NH waters, and my fees should be enough for others who dont need to register (kayakers, row boats and others) to use the facilities for free.

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Registration fees are paid to the state, not the town, arenít they?
Yes, and with snowmobile registration those funds are redistributed back to local snowmobile clubs to maintain the trails. If the state is not sending some of the registration fees back to the local communities, then they should be raising hell over it.

Truthfully I'm not sure who maintains public boat ramps in NH, but you can make a solid argument that both the state and local communities benefit from the visitors coming to use these facilities so they should both play a role in making them as robust as possible.
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Old 09-25-2019, 11:07 AM   #55
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Registration fees are paid to the state, not the town, arenít they?
Boat registration fees go all over the place, If you register at a local marina or town hall, that town gets the tax portion of the total. If you mail it in to Concord or pay at MPHQ, the state keeps the whole thing. Out of that, some goes to F & G for Search and Rescue, some goes to the Navigation Safety Fund (MP), some goes to Aquatic Invasive Species control. The list goes on.
Yes, we have many non-resident registrations. They benefit from the above, as well as not paying sales tax in their resident state.
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Old 09-25-2019, 11:43 AM   #56
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Boat registration fees go all over the place, If you register at a local marina or town hall, that town gets the tax portion of the total. If you mail it in to Concord or pay at MPHQ, the state keeps the whole thing. Out of that, some goes to F & G for Search and Rescue, some goes to the Navigation Safety Fund (MP), some goes to Aquatic Invasive Species control. The list goes on.
Yes, we have many non-resident registrations. They benefit from the above, as well as not paying sales tax in their resident state.
And I guess that would make those of us who paid sales tax in our own state idiots,,,

Oh well I'm sure that wont be the last mistake I'll make in my life.
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:25 PM   #57
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Well isn't this thread going all kinds of wonderful places.....

So the OP stayed overnight on or buy Ragged Island... Was anyone Hurt? Did he leave a mess or pollution behind? Did he cause any damage to anything on the island?

I understand full well who owns the island, at that part of their rules are that there isn't supposed to be overnight stays, with out approval. But come on, I don't see anything in the rules, that stops me from taking a ride out their at midnight, and walking around the island with a flashlight... (other then the fact that I am generally asleep these days by 10:30)

I love this lake, but what it is becoming is very upsetting. It is a great asset to the state, and local economies, but it appears that all the State, Towns, and residents want to do is push people away so that their shangrala is a private club.

Why can't people anchor overnight if the boat is capable of supporting such activity? Especially if they do it in an area where they are not disturbing residents... On the southwest side of Ragged is a perfect example of that. Why don't the towns want to produce revenue with some transient docking, and allowing people transient slips that they can be in from say 10 P.M. to 8 A.M. so as to not inter fear with the day use of the docks. Why doesn't a group like LRCT, support the use of their land for enjoyment? They do a wonderful job of preserving it..... But come one, put a couple of tentsite in on Ragged Island, that people can use... I am sure they could find a retired member that would be willing to summer on the island, and make sure people pick up and take care of the place, or lose a deposit, that they had to leave for the right to use the site......


Honestly what is the purpose of preserving beauty, if you don't allow people to use and enjoy it. What is the purpose of restricting the use of asset such as lake Winnipesaukee, such that people stop wanting to spend time there... These things are happening.... When I started coming up in the 80s and 90s, finding a hotel room on a weekend was unheard of..... in 2019, I have seen smaller place close, and almost any weekend I pass by at least one Hotel or Motel that has a room available.

As much as NH claims to be the live free or Die state, it is really starting to become the, its ours to enjoy but not yours unless you do as we say state.....

Sorry this is how I feel.... but I think it is sad.... I have a 10 year plan in my life, and for those 10 years I plan to continue to keep my families camp on Winnipesaukee, because it is convenient, and easy to get to from where my career dictates I live. But slowly I am making my mind up, that Winnipesaukee is no longer where I wish to retire, the society around the lake is becoming more like an exclusive country club, then a place of relaxation to get away from the societal norms......
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Old 09-25-2019, 01:06 PM   #58
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Well isn't this thread going all kinds of wonderful places.....
Well I feel some sense of responsibility for dragging this thread in unintended palaces, and adding to the volume without necessarily adding to the quality of the conversation. Sometimes we should all learn to just bit our tongue when there is no value added from our words.

As for your comments, I share many of your positions. And while I have never lived at the lake, I have been coming to Winnipesaukee since 1963, so I think I have a vested interest.

Not sure I could or would retire to Winnipesaukee, but I still look forward to a few more years enjoying the place of my picture perfect childhood summers.

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Old 09-25-2019, 01:09 PM   #59
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What could go wrong?


It already has,,,

How about a multi-family houseboat to take up even more space on a crowded lake? Maybe anchored off your shore?

It just needs paint, that's all.

While withholding summer income from lake businesses, what's a good fee schedule for this houseboat? $125?
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Old 09-25-2019, 02:00 PM   #60
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Why can't people anchor overnight if the boat is capable of supporting such activity? Especially if they do it in an area where they are not disturbing residents... On the southwest side of Ragged is a perfect example of that. Why don't the towns want to produce revenue with some transient docking, and allowing people transient slips that they can be in from say 10 P.M. to 8 A.M. so as to not inter fear with the day use of the docks. Why doesn't a group like LRCT, support the use of their land for enjoyment? They do a wonderful job of preserving it..... But come one, put a couple of tentsite in on Ragged Island, that people can use... I am sure they could find a retired member that would be willing to summer on the island, and make sure people pick up and take care of the place, or lose a deposit, that they had to leave for the right to use the site......

If you want to see what happens when you start allowing the horrors of camping on islands, overnight anchoring, and overnight stays at town docks; in places similar to Winnipesaukee, take a look at Lake George, Lake Champlain, and 1000 Islands. They are all just awful places

The photos are from a Lake George island campsite, Alexandria Bay, NY town dock that allows overnight stays, and the free wall (yes, you can tie up overnight for free, including shore power!) at the south end of Lake Champlain in Whitehall, NY.
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Old 09-25-2019, 02:44 PM   #61
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If you want to see what happens when you start allowing the horrors of camping on islands, overnight anchoring, and overnight stays at town docks; in places similar to Winnipesaukee, take a look at Lake George, Lake Champlain, and 1000 Islands. They are all just awful places

The photos are from a Lake George island campsite, Alexandria Bay, NY town dock that allows overnight stays, and the free wall (yes, you can tie up overnight for free, including shore power!) at the south end of Lake Champlain in Whitehall, NY.
I am sold! Those pictures are worth a thousand words! Overnight docking/anchoring: bad idea.
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Old 09-25-2019, 03:54 PM   #62
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How about a multi-family houseboat to take up even more space on a crowded lake? Maybe anchored off your shore?

It just needs paint, that's all.

While withholding summer income from lake businesses, what's a good fee schedule for this houseboat? $125?
Personally I enjoy a little redneck engineering.

So I vote for the top one! He/she/whoever can park in front of my house any day so long as I can get a tour.



p.s. I particularly like the old 2-stroke Johnson! Nothing beats the smell of 2-cycle oil and marine/white gas first think in the morning, it's THE best.

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Old 09-25-2019, 08:04 PM   #63
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I donít think you can moor your boat and sleep on it on Lake George. You can reserve a campsite on a state owned island, but if you donít have a reservation, cannot just drop anchor and spend the night.

There are not any state owned islands on Winnipesaukee, so I donít see a system like Lake George ever happening.

I donít have a philosophical issue with someone spending a night on a public dock, but from a practical point of view see nothing but problems. Public dock space is already at a premium and the three hour time is often ignored. On a summer night the docks in Meredith are often full until 8:00 at night, sometimes later. What time would someone be able to pull up for the night - and what time would they have to leave?

Iím not that familiar with Champlain or the Thousand Islands. My guess, and itís just that, is that they must have more spaces available to the public than Winnipesaukee. Also, in either of those areas can you anchor wherever you want and sleep on board, or do you have to be at a dock?

Regardless of how any of us feel about the issue, the reality is that the rules as they currently exist are not going to change.
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Old 09-25-2019, 08:38 PM   #64
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I have many memories of sleeping over at public docks, enumerated in old threads. Basically, it got too crowded and the towns weren't willing to deal with it. Charging a fee to stay overnight, and setting a plan so that a one time walk through for enforcement makes sense to me. It works for parking downtown. I think the towns are missing an opportunity. So are the motels that have their own docks.
I'd be happy to pay a meter fee if that got me a dockmaster to manage the sequence of boats and made people stop blocking other boats by tying up in the middle of the dock.
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Old 09-26-2019, 04:44 AM   #65
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Default Ragged island overnight

We take 2 trips on 70' house boats every year in both Bull Shoals Lake in Arkansas and on Lake Powell. Its pretty amazing stepping onto a boat that you control and isn't a "cruise ship" and not touching land for a week. And if you do touch land its usually unoccupied. We typically travel for a day or two camp over night and keep moving until we hit our destination. Anchor up the house boat there and enjoy the week with the out and about boat to explore. Now I don't really see that being practical on Winni but its definitely an awesome experience if you ever get the chance to try. And oh man the stars from out there.
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Old 09-26-2019, 05:50 AM   #66
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Probably a story for a new thread, but I for one would love to hear about the Lake Powell experience. Oh and I would love to see pictures too!!!

Its one of my bucket list trips once I retire.

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Old 09-26-2019, 06:10 AM   #67
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Probably a story for a new thread, but I for one would love to hear about the Lake Powell experience. Oh and I would love to see pictures too!!!

Its one of my bucket list trips once I retire.

Thanks!
We did it 5 years ago with another family on a 75’ house boat with a full kitchen and four bedrooms. Still our families favorite vacation. We flew into Vegas, drove and stayed a couple nights and hiked at both Bryce Canyon and Zion National Park. Then worked our way to Lake Powell where we spent 6 days boating, hiking and camping. As said above the stars are unbelievable. One of the few vacations we may repeat. Name:  DSC02896.jpg
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Old 09-26-2019, 06:46 AM   #68
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I donít think you can moor your boat and sleep on it on Lake George. You can reserve a campsite on a state owned island, but if you donít have a reservation, cannot just drop anchor and spend the night.

There are not any state owned islands on Winnipesaukee, so I donít see a system like Lake George ever happening.

I donít have a philosophical issue with someone spending a night on a public dock, but from a practical point of view see nothing but problems. Public dock space is already at a premium and the three hour time is often ignored. On a summer night the docks in Meredith are often full until 8:00 at night, sometimes later. What time would someone be able to pull up for the night - and what time would they have to leave?

Iím not that familiar with Champlain or the Thousand Islands. My guess, and itís just that, is that they must have more spaces available to the public than Winnipesaukee. Also, in either of those areas can you anchor wherever you want and sleep on board, or do you have to be at a dock?

Regardless of how any of us feel about the issue, the reality is that the rules as they currently exist are not going to change.
You absolutely can anchor overnight on Lake George. I've done it and it was fun. We shared our anchorage with about a dozen other boats and it was peaceful and quiet. The island camp sites are more for boats that don't have berths.

The LRCT owns some islands and are missing a great opportunity to put them to better use by not encouraging camping on them, IMO. There are very good examples of the same sort of thing happening with great success on nearby lakes. Valcourt, Knights, and Burton Islands on Champlain (there are probably more...) all successfully allow camping of various types ranging from wilderness camping to rental cabins. Obviously Lake George is famous for its island camp sites.

Champlain allows overnight anchoring and while most towns do not have overnight transient docks, there are plenty of marinas that do, mainly because plenty of slips are empty when people leave them to go anchor overnight or visit the islands that allow camping etc. The marinas get to rent the empty slips out at a very good profit (the slips are already paid for so they get to double dip at an inflated short term rate) and everybody wins. For this reason alone, I'm surprised Winnipesaukee marinas aren't actively advocating to allow overnight anchoring and overnight use of town docks.

1000 Islands allows overnight anchoring and the towns have transient dockage too. There area also tons of islands that allow camping, and have moorings and docks to use.

For an even closer example, one could also look at Portsmouth NH to see how allowing overnight docking at a public dock works. They get $2 a foot for transients by Prescott park and it works very well for the city and boaters. We docked near there a few weeks ago and had a fantastic evening.

If Meredith charged 2 bucks a foot and allowed overnight docking, I bet many of those boats that are there until 8 PM would just stay for the night and spend more money at local businesses. I bet they could easily get 4 bucks a foot at high season too... Many of those boats that spent the night would likely leave an empty slip at a marina somewhere that could rent out the slip for the night. It all cascades and makes great use of resources that currently go unused all night, every night.

In my experience, most of NH is the exception when it comes to these things. For a state full of towns that rely heavily on tourism, that seems like a bad plan to me. I guess they can just raise lakefront property tax to offset the lost revenue though.
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Old 09-26-2019, 06:55 AM   #69
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You absolutely can anchor overnight on Lake George. I've done it and it was fun. We shared our anchorage with about a dozen other boats and it was peaceful and quiet. The island camp sites are more for boats that don't have berths.

The LRCT owns some islands and are missing a great opportunity to put them to better use by not encouraging camping on them, IMO. There are very good examples of the same sort of thing happening with great success on nearby lakes. Valcourt, Knights, and Burton Islands on Champlain (there are probably more...) all successfully allow camping of various types ranging from wilderness camping to rental cabins. Obviously Lake George is famous for its island camp sites.

Champlain allows overnight anchoring and while most towns do not have overnight transient docks, there are plenty of marinas that do, mainly because plenty of slips are empty when people leave them to go anchor overnight or visit the islands that allow camping etc. The marinas get to rent the empty slips out at a very good profit (the slips are already paid for so they get to double dip at an inflated short term rate) and everybody wins. For this reason alone, I'm surprised Winnipesaukee marinas aren't actively advocating to allow overnight anchoring and overnight use of town docks.

1000 Islands allows overnight anchoring and the towns have transient dockage too. There area also tons of islands that allow camping, and have moorings and docks to use.

For an even closer example, one could also look at Portsmouth NH to see how allowing overnight docking at a public dock works. They get $2 a foot for transients by Prescott park and it works very well for the city and boaters. We docked near there a few weeks ago and had a fantastic evening.

If Meredith charged 2 bucks a foot and allowed overnight docking, I bet many of those boats that are there until 8 PM would just stay for the night and spend more money at local businesses. I bet they could easily get 4 bucks a foot at high season too... Many of those boats that spent the night would likely leave an empty slip at a marina somewhere that could rent out the slip for the night. It all cascades and makes great use of resources that currently go unused all night, every night.

In my experience, most of NH is the exception when it comes to these things. For a state full of towns that rely heavily on tourism, that seems like a bad plan to me. I guess they can just raise lakefront property tax to offset the lost revenue though.
Thank you, especially for the info on Lake George. I was told one could not anchor overnight there; good to know you can.
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Old 09-26-2019, 07:22 AM   #70
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Dave R, thanks for your observations, knowing how much you have traveled round and are intending to travel around, I think you are the expert on what is allowed where and when....

I personally lived in Vermont, on the Champlain Islands for almost 10 years. Many of my colleagues owned boats on the lake, and used to spend the night at various locations, including the Burton Islands.... I was to foolish to not realize what I should have been taking more advantage of. However I rent an apartment on the lake that had direct access to the water.... So I am not to amiss in my regret....

New Hampshire has protected itself with all these laws and regulations. And now I feel most of the towns and state are to afraid of the outcome to start reversing things. While none of the towns on Winnipesauakee are as big as Burlington, it is a great example of how a town can turn its water front into a terrific source of income. They have transient docking and moorings. When I lived up there the "harbor Master" fell under the parks and Rec dept. And it was just part of the Directors responsibility. Now grant you Lake Champlain with connections to other water ways is a bit different. However I think many lessons could be learned.....

I met many good people down on the waterfront in Burlington. Many of whom where statying on their boats, and the transient boat slips.... Weather they boated in or trailered in, most of them wanted to spend as little time in the transient slip as possible. Even if the planned to stay in Burlington for multiple days, they would be out on the lake exploring a bulk of the day, returning to use there transient slip only in the evening, this allowing the dock master to put boats in that spot temporariliy all day long.....

People need to stop being scared of what they don't understand.... If you have only and only ever boat on Winnipesaukee, you don't know what you are missing. You also have no idea of how all the issue the New Hampshire and Winnpesaukee residents find them selves afraid of happening, really aren't issues......
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Old 09-26-2019, 08:07 AM   #71
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Dave R, thanks for your observations, knowing how much you have traveled round and are intending to travel around, I think you are the expert on what is allowed where and when....

I personally lived in Vermont, on the Champlain Islands for almost 10 years. Many of my colleagues owned boats on the lake, and used to spend the night at various locations, including the Burton Islands.... I was to foolish to not realize what I should have been taking more advantage of. However I rent an apartment on the lake that had direct access to the water.... So I am not to amiss in my regret....

New Hampshire has protected itself with all these laws and regulations. And now I feel most of the towns and state are to afraid of the outcome to start reversing things. While none of the towns on Winnipesauakee are as big as Burlington, it is a great example of how a town can turn its water front into a terrific source of income. They have transient docking and moorings. When I lived up there the "harbor Master" fell under the parks and Rec dept. And it was just part of the Directors responsibility. Now grant you Lake Champlain with connections to other water ways is a bit different. However I think many lessons could be learned.....

I met many good people down on the waterfront in Burlington. Many of whom where statying on their boats, and the transient boat slips.... Weather they boated in or trailered in, most of them wanted to spend as little time in the transient slip as possible. Even if the planned to stay in Burlington for multiple days, they would be out on the lake exploring a bulk of the day, returning to use there transient slip only in the evening, this allowing the dock master to put boats in that spot temporariliy all day long.....

People need to stop being scared of what they don't understand.... If you have only and only ever boat on Winnipesaukee, you don't know what you are missing. You also have no idea of how all the issue the New Hampshire and Winnpesaukee residents find them selves afraid of happening, really aren't issues......

I have spent a few nights and several 1/2 days tied up at Burlington City Marina. Had a great time. The proximity to the bus station makes it a great stop for someone traveling by boat. It is a festive place until about 10 PM and then it is astoundingly quiet for a downtown area. I plan to spend a Summer on Champlain (all over the place, mostly at anchor) in the next 5 years and look forward to returning to all the great ports.

Speaking of Burlington area and a connection to Winnipesaukee, If you ever want to see what the Mount Washington was like in the 1923, go to the Shelburne Museum and take a tour of the Ticonderoga. It's a sister ship to the Mount Washington (formerly called the Chateauguay) that's been restored to the way it was in 1923. The family resemblance is obvious. Take note of the walking beam steam engine and paddle wheels, the Mount used to have those, so cool...
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Old 09-26-2019, 08:38 AM   #72
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Overnight at public docks on Winnipesaukee used to be encouraged by some towns. They wanted "big cruisers" as tourist attraction for non-boaters. As more people became boat owners, local merchants wanted more turnover at the docks instead of boats that never left. There was also concern about boats "pumping out" at the docks before there were chlorinators and then holding tanks. The answer was time limits on docking and eventually no more overnights at public docks. Similar sequence for overnight anchoring as a means of protecting water quality. Also, as shorefront became developed, people didn't want overnighters in front of their house or on their beach. For awhile more and more boats had holding tanks. Now with the trend to bow riders instead of cuddy cabins, and pontoon boats, heads and holding tanks are probably less common.

Why do we not object to parking meters on the street, but we don't use a similar plan for docks that are only a few yards away?
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Old 09-26-2019, 09:16 AM   #73
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Thank you, especially for the info on Lake George. I was told one could not anchor overnight there; good to know you can.
We anchored in Red Rock Bay. It's a big but protected area about 20 feet deep. It's also surrounded by state park land on three sides, so there are no (or very few??) homes on the nearby shore. This makes it a popular anchorage. When given the choice, boaters tend to pick anchorages away from homes.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:10 AM   #74
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You absolutely can anchor overnight on Lake George. I've done it and it was fun. We shared our anchorage with about a dozen other boats and it was peaceful and quiet. The island camp sites are more for boats that don't have berths.

The LRCT owns some islands and are missing a great opportunity to put them to better use by not encouraging camping on them, IMO. There are very good examples of the same sort of thing happening with great success on nearby lakes. Valcourt, Knights, and Burton Islands on Champlain (there are probably more...) all successfully allow camping of various types ranging from wilderness camping to rental cabins. Obviously Lake George is famous for its island camp sites.

Champlain allows overnight anchoring and while most towns do not have overnight transient docks, there are plenty of marinas that do, mainly because plenty of slips are empty when people leave them to go anchor overnight or visit the islands that allow camping etc. The marinas get to rent the empty slips out at a very good profit (the slips are already paid for so they get to double dip at an inflated short term rate) and everybody wins. For this reason alone, I'm surprised Winnipesaukee marinas aren't actively advocating to allow overnight anchoring and overnight use of town docks.

1000 Islands allows overnight anchoring and the towns have transient dockage too. There area also tons of islands that allow camping, and have moorings and docks to use.

For an even closer example, one could also look at Portsmouth NH to see how allowing overnight docking at a public dock works. They get $2 a foot for transients by Prescott park and it works very well for the city and boaters. We docked near there a few weeks ago and had a fantastic evening.

If Meredith charged 2 bucks a foot and allowed overnight docking, I bet many of those boats that are there until 8 PM would just stay for the night and spend more money at local businesses. I bet they could easily get 4 bucks a foot at high season too... Many of those boats that spent the night would likely leave an empty slip at a marina somewhere that could rent out the slip for the night. It all cascades and makes great use of resources that currently go unused all night, every night.

In my experience, most of NH is the exception when it comes to these things. For a state full of towns that rely heavily on tourism, that seems like a bad plan to me. I guess they can just raise lakefront property tax to offset the lost revenue though.
Do the lakefront residents (and islanders) drink Lake Champlain's water?
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:46 AM   #75
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Do the lakefront residents (and islanders) drink Lake Champlain's water?
I have no idea but I do know that municipalities release waste water into the lake so I would not recommend it without filtering. That said, even if no one released waste water into the lake, I would still recommend filtering, too risky not to and filters are cheap.
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Old 10-03-2019, 08:41 PM   #76
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It's a shame stuff like that is not allowed. Have fun, leave it better than you found it, don't confess to it publicly, and don't get caught.

If overnight (or longer) boating trips appeal to you, consider moving to the ocean. We do it all the time out of Hampton River Marina. It's awesome.
Dave you nailed it. The ocean is so much better. My first season this year was epic....you can overnight just about anywhere. I love the lake but for serious boating the ocean is the place to be.
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Old 10-04-2019, 07:16 AM   #77
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Dave you nailed it. The ocean is so much better. My first season this year was epic....you can overnight just about anywhere. I love the lake but for serious boating the ocean is the place to be.
This was our first year in a coastal slip as well. We had done quite a bit of ocean boating previously, but always in a trailered boat.

We miss or Winni friends, the warm swims, and all the close together and wonderful ports, but everything else about coastal boating is awesome. We love that we can leave our slip and make a 7000 mile loop (Great Loop + Downeast Loop) that allows for overnight stays in protected waters every night (thus the ability to wait out bad weather with ease), with only a mile of overlap.

How far did you venture from your slip? We made it as far south as the Statue of Liberty and as far west as La Salle, MI (solely due to the cruise home with the "new" boat); and as far north as Thomaston, ME this year. The only truly frightening experience was taking 8 foot breaking waves over the bow at the mouth of the Kennebec River, which was just awful. If you have not done the Maine coast yet (north and east of Portland) or Buzzards Bay/Martha's Vinyard, you are in for a treat.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:44 AM   #78
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This was our first year in a coastal slip as well. We had done quite a bit of ocean boating previously, but always in a trailered boat.

We miss or Winni friends, the warm swims, and all the close together and wonderful ports, but everything else about coastal boating is awesome. We love that we can leave our slip and make a 7000 mile loop (Great Loop + Downeast Loop) that allows for overnight stays in protected waters every night (thus the ability to wait out bad weather with ease), with only a mile of overlap.
I grew up on the ocean, lived in a ocean town, grew up boating on the ocean, although never over night and in smaller boats. Then discovered Winni and love it but I understand the allure of the ocean and it does have so much more to offer for serious boating. My compromise would be Champlain. Very large, overnight boating at anchor, mountains, warmer water than the ocean for swimming and maybe close enough to do on weekends while working. I have not boated the Maine coast but think that would be awesome also. However, so far my favorite over night boating experiences have been catamaran sailing in the carribean, there are mountains, the weather is spectacular, the water is warm, awesome beach bars and secluded overnight anchorages, incredible snorkeling.

what do you have for a boat now on the ocean?
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:02 AM   #79
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I grew up on the ocean, lived in a ocean town, grew up boating on the ocean, although never over night and in smaller boats. Then discovered Winni and love it but I understand the allure of the ocean and it does have so much more to offer for serious boating. My compromise would be Champlain. Very large, overnight boating at anchor, mountains, warmer water than the ocean for swimming and maybe close enough to do on weekends while working. I have not boated the Maine coast but think that would be awesome also. However, so far my favorite over night boating experiences have been catamaran sailing in the carribean, there are mountains, the weather is spectacular, the water is warm, awesome beach bars and secluded overnight anchorages, incredible snorkeling.

what do you have for a boat now on the ocean?
It's a Tollycraft 44 CPMY with twin CAT 3208TAs. We fully intend to take it to the Caribbean for the reasons you have stated. Our boat has already been there before for a 7 month stay with a previous owner who only sold it due to getting Parkinson's disease. We also intend to spend a Summer aboard it on Champlain in 2-3 years, and a summer aboard it in the 1000 Islands in 3-5 years. We've been planning this lifestyle for years and are psyched to have actually started. Winni started it all for us and it's just snowballed from there.

These folks have the same exact boat that we have and cruise many of the same places we've been or intend to go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq-f3Ns_Mrg&t=684s they have also been super helpful with advice and we keep in touch often.
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:14 AM   #80
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It's a Tollycraft 44 CPMY with twin CAT 3208TAs. We fully intend to take it to the Caribbean for the reasons you have stated. Our boat has already been there before for a 7 month stay with a previous owner who only sold it due to getting Parkinson's disease. We also intend to spend a Summer aboard it on Champlain in 2-3 years, and a summer aboard it in the 1000 Islands in 3-5 years. We've been planning this lifestyle for years and are psyched to have actually started. Winni started it all for us and it's just snowballed from there.

These folks have the same exact boat that we have and cruise many of the same places we've been or intend to go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq-f3Ns_Mrg&t=684s they have also been super helpful with advice and we keep in touch often.
That's a great choice to do the kind of boating you are planning. You have some great plans. I wish you all best in your future boating. My wife loves the Nordic tug style. I like trawler style but will probably never be able to afford one of those. I know there are a lot of used but the kind of boat I would like used is still $200 - $300k. Down east lobster style like a Back Cove are also very nice.
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:24 AM   #81
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That's a great choice to do the kind of boating you are planning. You have some great plans. I wish you all best in your future boating. My wife loves the Nordic tug style. I like trawler style but will probably never be able to afford one of those. I know there are a lot of used but the kind of boat I would like used is still $200 - $300k. Down east lobster style like a Back Cove are also very nice.
Nordic Tugs and Back Cove boats are quite different in purpose and function IMO. Back Cove boats are not really designed as a live aboard, and are really high-end cruisers meant for long weekend vacations at speed. They are what I would consider an alternative to a sedan sport fisherman, for someone that is not all that into fishing, but wants speed, quality and clean style. They are beautiful boats, but they trade a lot of function for form and are not as practical as a boat designed to be a full time home. You almost never hear of anyone doing a loop on a boat like a Back Cove and generally see them parked in front of waterfront mansions. Nordic Tugs are designed with far more amenities and safety features that make sense for live-aboards and they are great coastal cruisers. They typically have a much more cluttered look than a Back Cove, but that "clutter" makes daily life on a boat MUCH easier than on a boat where clean lines are a priority.


Nordic Tugs started making boats the same year Tollycraft went out of business. They are simply newer, thus the higher price they command on the used market.

My Tollycraft is kind of a hybrid. It is definitely designed to be a live aboard boat, but has the performance to hit 25 knots if desired. Style-wise, it's really bland, and very cluttered, but I did not buy it for style...
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Old 10-04-2019, 12:36 PM   #82
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Nordic Tugs and Back Cove boats are quite different in purpose and function IMO. Back Cove boats are not really designed as a live aboard, and are really high-end cruisers meant for long weekend vacations at speed. They are what I would consider an alternative to a sedan sport fisherman, for someone that is not all that into fishing, but wants speed, quality and clean style. They are beautiful boats, but they trade a lot of function for form and are not as practical as a boat designed to be a full time home. You almost never hear of anyone doing a loop on a boat like a Back Cove and generally see them parked in front of waterfront mansions. Nordic Tugs are designed with far more amenities and safety features that make sense for live-aboards and they are great coastal cruisers. They typically have a much more cluttered look than a Back Cove, but that "clutter" makes daily life on a boat MUCH easier than on a boat where clean lines are a priority.

Nordic Tugs started making boats the same year Tollycraft went out of business. They are simply newer, thus the higher price they command on the used market.

My Tollycraft is kind of a hybrid. It is definitely designed to be a live aboard boat, but has the performance to hit 25 knots if desired. Style-wise, it's really bland, and very cluttered, but I did not buy it for style...
Thats a great looking boat! I love the lines. So that's a semi-displacement? Will that sedan bridge profile make higher wind days more difficult to handle? Yes, the Nordic Tug, Nordhavn, etc are more for full time liveaboard where as the lobster style, Back Cove, Sabre are beautiful boats but would be more for a few days at a time instead of full time but I love the lines to that style.
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Old 10-04-2019, 02:57 PM   #83
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Thats a great looking boat! I love the lines. So that's a semi-displacement? Will that sedan bridge profile make higher wind days more difficult to handle? Yes, the Nordic Tug, Nordhavn, etc are more for full time liveaboard where as the lobster style, Back Cove, Sabre are beautiful boats but would be more for a few days at a time instead of full time but I love the lines to that style.
Thanks, we like the lines too, but it's not for everybody. I overheard someone talking about it being "too "oceany"" once, while it was being compared to a more sleek design (that looked like giant basketball shoe to me) we were docked next too. Made me smile... The boat is remarkably easy to handle at low speeds around the docks, even when there's a lot of wind. It has 26x26 props and 2:1 transmissions, so even at 650 RPM idle, it responds instantly when I put it in gear and those big props start turning at 325 RPM. It does not have thrusters and IMO does not need them. My slip neighbors have a 2003 Carver 410 Sport Sedan that I have operated quite a bit and it's really a handful around the docks when there's any wind, despite having bow and stern thrusters. I'm not sure what Tollycraft did to make it so easy to handle, but I appreciate it.

For a 44 foot boat, it really is not all that tall. If I take the radar, mast light, and antennas down, we can fit under a 14' 9" bridge, which was really handy on the Erie Canal where 15' bridges are common on the west half. Yes it was tight and worrisome every time...

I think it's classified as a planing hull, more like a Back Cove than not, in that regard. It gets on plane cleanly (and with surprising quickness) and effortlessly cruises at 20 knots (23 MPH), which is way above semi-displacement speed for a 44 foot boat. That said, I only run it like that for a little while on every outing just to get some heat in the engines, per the recommendation in the CAT owner's manual. 90+% of the time I run at 8.5 to 10 knots (10 to 12 MPH) and get 3 to 4 times the MPG that I get on-plane. I want the engines to last a long time and 4 figure fill ups get old...
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Old 10-04-2019, 07:21 PM   #84
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Thanks, we like the lines too, but it's not for everybody. I overheard someone talking about it being "too "oceany"" once, while it was being compared to a more sleek design (that looked like giant basketball shoe to me) we were docked next too. Made me smile... The boat is remarkably easy to handle at low speeds around the docks, even when there's a lot of wind. It has 26x26 props and 2:1 transmissions, so even at 650 RPM idle, it responds instantly when I put it in gear and those big props start turning at 325 RPM. It does not have thrusters and IMO does not need them. My slip neighbors have a 2003 Carver 410 Sport Sedan that I have operated quite a bit and it's really a handful around the docks when there's any wind, despite having bow and stern thrusters. I'm not sure what Tollycraft did to make it so easy to handle, but I appreciate it.

For a 44 foot boat, it really is not all that tall. If I take the radar, mast light, and antennas down, we can fit under a 14' 9" bridge, which was really handy on the Erie Canal where 15' bridges are common on the west half. Yes it was tight and worrisome every time...

I think it's classified as a planing hull, more like a Back Cove than not, in that regard. It gets on plane cleanly (and with surprising quickness) and effortlessly cruises at 20 knots (23 MPH), which is way above semi-displacement speed for a 44 foot boat. That said, I only run it like that for a little while on every outing just to get some heat in the engines, per the recommendation in the CAT owner's manual. 90+% of the time I run at 8.5 to 10 knots (10 to 12 MPH) and get 3 to 4 times the MPG that I get on-plane. I want the engines to last a long time and 4 figure fill ups get old...
Beautiful Tolly Craft Dave. Are you following Searching for Sea Shells on Youtube? They have the same boat and cruise from Canada to the Bahamas.

"(that looked like giant basketball shoe to me)".....it's the express cruiser design which I happen to prefer, and have (Formula 37PC).....no offense taken
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Old 10-06-2019, 01:38 PM   #85
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Beautiful Tolly Craft Dave. Are you following Searching for Sea Shells on Youtube? They have the same boat and cruise from Canada to the Bahamas.

"(that looked like giant basketball shoe to me)".....it's the express cruiser design which I happen to prefer, and have (Formula 37PC).....no offense taken
I have been following Searching for C-Shels for a long time, but I must say that we picked the Tollycraft 44/45 as our next boat before we knew about C-Shels. Sheldon and I communicate frequently and he was a tremendous help when we were boat shopping. We plan to get together with them eventually. They stopped taking the boat to Canada two years ago and simply park it on the hard in Florida all Summer now.
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:07 PM   #86
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I have many memories of sleeping over at public docks, enumerated in old threads. Basically, it got too crowded and the towns weren't willing to deal with it. Charging a fee to stay overnight, and setting a plan so that a one time walk through for enforcement makes sense to me. It works for parking downtown. I think the towns are missing an opportunity. So are the motels that have their own docks.
I'd be happy to pay a meter fee if that got me a dockmaster to manage the sequence of boats and made people stop blocking other boats by tying up in the middle of the dock.
Why would you need to tie up to a town dock?

New Hampshire doesn't require pump-out inspections as required in Florida's ocean waters.

You can rent a barge and put your RV on it—throw out an anchor anywhere. 'Save on Property Taxes.


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Old 10-08-2019, 01:22 PM   #87
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Why would you need to tie up to a town dock?

New Hampshire doesn't require pump-out inspections as required in Florida's ocean waters.

You can rent a barge and put your RV on itóthrow out an anchor anywhere. 'Save on Property Taxes.
1. Public dock so I can walk to the doughnut shop in the morning.
1a. If it's windy, my anchor won't drag
1b. Lots more boats fit on docks than anchored in the same space
1c. Town docks are not in front of private property.
1d. The dockmaster can speak to those who are too noisy/rowdy
2. New Hampshire requires that all marine heads be inspected by DES and an approval sticker be affixed to the vessel. Fine for illegal discharge is up to $2000. RSA 487.
3.Rent a barge, etc? Maybe in FL. In NH that's a "houseboat" under RSA 287.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:01 PM   #88
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1. Public dock so I can walk to the doughnut shop in the morning.
1a. If it's windy, my anchor won't drag
1b. Lots more boats fit on docks than anchored in the same space
1c. Town docks are not in front of private property.
1d. The dockmaster can speak to those who are too noisy/rowdy
2. New Hampshire requires that all marine heads be inspected by DES and an approval sticker be affixed to the vessel. Fine for illegal discharge is up to $2000. RSA 487.
3.Rent a barge, etc? Maybe in FL. In NH that's a "houseboat" under RSA 287.
DES used to come around to the marina periodically to inspect and put the sticker on the boat. They have not been around for several years to do this.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:02 PM   #89
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I thought they just did it once so once you had the sticker you were all set????
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:56 PM   #90
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Yes you were all set if you had the sticker but they still came through marinas because there is a lot of turnover of boats. For example, I know at one time over half of the 284 slips at Mountain View were occupied by renters and those turn over more frequently.

Don Cheeseborough (sp?) fondly known as "Cheese" was the man most frequently seen performing the inspections. The state gave him a small boat to travel around the lake for inspections. He was well into his 80's and still came around every year.

He was also a ski instructor at Gunstock in his 80's. He had a lot of energy until the end. A real nice guy. If he found a boat that was not in compliance he would ask you to fix it and tell you he would be back in a couple of weeks to check it again.
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:51 PM   #91
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I'm not sure how inspections work. If a DES inspector walks around the docks at my marina, or cruises by in his boat and I don't have a sticker, can s/he board? Does the marina operator have to allow access or do they have to make an appointment with me? (The marina has the keys) I'm there on weekends. Likely they (DES) work M-F.
In my case, the marina says they can't (won't) launch a boat that isn't compliant, so there is a built-in enforcement, at least for non-trailer boats.
Whatever the system is, it sees to be working, so I applaud DES and the marinas for working together on this.
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:53 AM   #92
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They came to our dock and said we needed a sticker and of course we let them go on the boat and they inspected it and put the sticker on.
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Old 10-22-2019, 05:32 AM   #93
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Thatís a great looking Tolly and 3208 CATís are great too. Tolly was always a nice boat. The bottom setup / distance between the props / weight and Iíd say larger running gear probably help itís maneuverability over the carver.

Iíve done the trip south and back many times between Boston and Lauderdale. Itís a blast. We were always in a hurry and got it done in a week. I could spend a month on the Chesapeake alone .

If you ever need any stop recommendations let me know. We ran at 30knots (big sportfish) so would do Boston - Jersey - va bch or Norfolk (this is where weíd decide inside or outside ). Then Beaufort nc- Charleston - st Augustine- Lauderdale. The speed allowed for 200 miles / day and a few weather days if needed.

The people you meet and places youíll see are so much fun.


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