Bonehead Cruiser

[Broken Glass]

I was fishing this morning between Goveners Island and Timber Island. A Black Regal about 38' or so came out of Silver Sands, full tilt, passed me about 75' to starboard, and almost swamped me. I was in a Grady White 248 Voyager . I barely had time to turn 90 degrees and get my bow into his wake. His wake was so big that I buried my bow pulpit when the wake came. I have never come close to buring the pulpit on any water on this lake. As he passed I laid on my horn and he never moved his head or looked my way. Had he swamped me he would have kept right on going. This guy should learn the rules concerning his wake responsibility, and perhaps even try a liitle boating courtesy.

[topwater]

LOL, You know his wake really isn't the problem, It was the HIGHSPEED you were going and you came with-in 75 ft of him. Shame on you for thinking a person owning a 38ft Regal would do anything that would be bad for someone else. Did you get his Bow#'s, chances are that would tell the WHOLE story. And to think summer has just started.
But to all of you 38ft cruisers who do this to me on Winnie this year, I will follow you all day long until you tie up and discuss this with you person to person. I will be the one in a Blue 21ft bass boat w/225Yamaha on the back, with NH registration.

[NoRegrets]

I bet he was not going full tilt but wake board speed. Glad you were not need to swim. There are two large black Regals that I have witnessed that are clueless. They are not representative of the brand or class of boat but of bonehead captains.

[NBR]

Exactly the reason I don't fish Winnie on the weekends after Memorial Day and not at all between July 4 and Labor Day. To many that are inconsiderate or more likely just don't know what they are doing.

While the speed limit makes no difference to me I have never been endangered by speed on Winnie but I sure have by plow speed wakes and violations of the 150' rule!

[jrc]

My cruiser is smaller and blue, but I know what BG means. A mishandled cruiser can make a monster wake. Some of this is training, bad training.

I was boat shopping for my current boat and the salesman took me out on 34 foot v-drive boat. I was looking at outdrive boats and he was trying to sell me on the wonders of v-drives, we drove around in that thing at 12 mph, slow cruising he called it. We were making monster wakes, probably the biggest possible, and he was beaming with pride that his boat could cruise half on plane.

When you buy a boat from these guys, this is the guy who shows you the ropes.

[Broken Glass]

I was trolling at 1.8MPH so I don't think that I cut this guy off. I agree that the speed of the passing boats has never been a problem while fishing. The huge wakes are another story....

[Bear Islander]

This is a perfect example of why the lake needs a 300 horsepower limit on non-commercial boats manufactured after 2012.

[jarhead0341]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

This is a perfect example of why the lake needs a 300 horsepower limit on non-commercial boats manufactured after 2012.

So with less horsepower boats that would normal be able to plane out would chug along and make bigger wakes and never be able to get on plane........ brilliant!

[jrc]

Unskilled and/or arrogant operators come in all horsepower.

I spend a lot of time at anchor in areas with lots of wake. I can tell you by sight how big the wake will be. Even a mid-sized bowrider with it's nose stuck way in the air will give you a monster wake.

[topwater]

Not like a 38ft Regal plowing along. No comparison... Bow rider might have a large wake, but still nothing like a cruiser plowing water.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by topwater

Not like a 38ft Regal plowing along. No comparison... Bow rider might have a large wake, but still nothing like a cruiser plowing water.

The OP said it was at "full tilt". My experience with them is that even cleanly on plane, they kick a monstorus wake, I can't imagine how bad it would be at plowing speed.

[jrc]

I wasn't there so I'm not going top get into arguements about which wake was bigger.

And sure a big boat mishandled will make a bigger wake than a small boat mishandled. But, a large boat can be operated with an acceptable wake.

I've seen a couple of the 38-40' Regal flybridge cruisers around the lake and they don't seem to have disproportionate wakes. Though I never had the close encounter the OP mentions.

[Chimi]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

This is a perfect example of why the lake needs a 300 horsepower limit on non-commercial boats manufactured after 2012.

Here we go again - more ridiculous laws, rules and limits. Why exempt the commercial boats - they make huge wakes the same as non-commercial boats? Send the Mt. Washington to the ocean where she belongs, as far as I'm concerned.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

This is a perfect example of why the lake needs a 300 horsepower limit on non-commercial boats manufactured after 2012.

As was noted above, many boats, regardless of size, are underpowered so they struggle to get on or maintain plane resulting in huge wakes.

Unfortunately, it is more noticeable on the bigger cruisers.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

This is a perfect example of why the lake needs a 300 horsepower limit on non-commercial boats manufactured after 2012.

Really? Please explain why. Why not enforce the laws that we already have instead of yet another that cannot be enforced?

The truth is that you have another agenda don't you?

[NH_boater]

- Go fast boats eliminated by speed limit. Check!
- Public sandbars under attack, awaiting confirmation of kill.
- Next target acquired, big boats.
- Future target, your boat and your boating pleasure!

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Yankee

Really? Please explain why. Why not enforce the laws that we already have instead of yet another that cannot be enforced?

The truth is that you have another agenda don't you?

The lake is a limited resource that is to small for large, high horsepower boats that belong on the ocean. Their large wake is dangerous and is damaging to private property, water quality, loon nests, erosion etc.

A horsepower limit is the EASIEST law to enforce. Horsepower and year of manufacture is printed on every registration.

Horsepower limits are my top agenda and always have been.

[Dhuberty24]

Go to Squam lake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BroadHopper]

I have been telling everyone all along and they ignored me! Give Wiinfabs the inch (SL) and they will go the mile! Their next agenda is to declare the lake a drinking water resevoir and limit the size of boat and motors. Like the Quabin resevoir and the Masebesic reservoir. I think the size is 16' and the HP is 25.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

....Their next agenda is to declare the lake a drinking water resevoir....

The lake already IS a drinking water reservoir!!!!!!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The lake already IS a drinking water reservoir!!!!!!

Wolfeboro, too, has their eye on Lake Winnipesaukee as a drinking water reservoir.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The lake is a limited resource that is to small for large, high horsepower boats that belong on the ocean. Their large wake is dangerous and is damaging to private property, water quality, loon nests, erosion etc.

A horsepower limit is the EASIEST law to enforce. Horsepower and year of manufacture is printed on every registration.

Horsepower limits are my top agenda and always have been.

BI has been consistent on this point. We disagree, but he is consistent!

[Chimi]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The lake is a limited resource that is to small for large, high horsepower boats that belong on the ocean. Their large wake is dangerous and is damaging to private property, water quality, loon nests, erosion etc.

A horsepower limit is the EASIEST law to enforce. Horsepower and year of manufacture is printed on every registration.

Horsepower limits are my top agenda and always have been.

Perhaps the state should just take all island property by eminent domain. Think of the reduced boat traffic and reduced impact on the lake, water quality, shorelines, loon nests, etc. You can apply this bizzare logic to any subject you wish. Unfortunately, I think these weaklings in Concord will fall for just about anything at this point. Interestingly enough, the Mercatus Center at George Mason University just released its 2011 State Freedom rankings http://mercatus.org/freedom-50-states-2011 . I think they need to take another look at this because freedom isn't what it used to be in good, ole' NH.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Chimi

Perhaps the state should just take all island property by eminent domain. Think of the reduced boat traffic and reduced impact on the lake, water quality, shorelines, loon nests, etc. You can apply this bizzare logic to any subject you wish. Unfortunately, I think these weaklings in Concord will fall for just about anything at this point. Interestingly enough, the Mercatus Center at George Mason University just released its 2011 State Freedom rankings http://mercatus.org/freedom-50-states-2011 . I think they need to take another look at this because freedom isn't what it used to be in good, ole' NH.

See all those houses and lean-to camps all around the lake were you can spit from a window and it will land in the lake? How close do you think all those septics are from the places built over the years? Soil microbes travel laterally in soil up to 100 ft from a septic.

Elimination of shore front homes would do wonders for lake water quality.

This idea of the state eliminating shore front homes is not as far fetched as you think...

[VtSteve]

BI has been on the HP limit kick for years. As was evidenced by his outrage over the elimination of a really dumb boat certificate law, it clearly shows the selfishness of it all. A 300 HP limit would eliminate all cruisers, a very high percentage of bowriders and other recreational boats. I'm not all that fond of cruiser lakes, so maybe I will author the law

We told people that the SL supporters were after much more, at least the powerful ones were. Nobody believed it, in spite of some of the most ridiculous arguments ever seen.

The ones that hate Don are gone now, I'm sure all of you that Thanked their posts would be delighted to know what they say on the Other forums. Enlightening for sure. They played good people for patsies, and legislators for complete fools. And, they won.

Now they're coming to get you

[NHBUOY]

...ALL ski resorts have the Skiers & Borders Resposibility Codes, as well as, Respect, Courtesy & Etiquette guidelines/rules for Parks, Halfpipes, and off-piste terrains...major infractions can get people hurt, involve the police, or (my personal nightmare ), pull your pass...There has been a BIG push on getting the ignorant consumer "educated" to the "rules" and it has seemed to work from the chairlift I usually sit on......check out any trail map......maybe a Winni "trail map"......my point is...let's stop trying to change/argue over who belongs, and educate the ignorant of the proper bahavior while on the Lake...it's the driver/sailor/paddler/walker on water(bi ), NOT the boat...

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The lake is a limited resource that is to small for large, high horsepower boats that belong on the ocean. Their large wake is dangerous and is damaging to private property, water quality, loon nests, erosion etc.

A horsepower limit is the EASIEST law to enforce. Horsepower and year of manufacture is printed on every registration.

Horsepower limits are my top agenda and always have been.

You site water quality, loon nests, and erosion and yet again you fail to answer why enforcing current laws such as the 150 feet rule are deficient. Why not focus your energy on enforcement or modification of current laws?

As for the EASE of HP enforcement, just how do envision the state does that? Pull the engines from every boat that is registered and put them on a dynamometer? NH cannot even fund the NHMP to enforce the laws already on the books.

And yet again I say that you have another agenda--it wasn't the SL and it's not high HP engines.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Yankee

You site water quality, loon nests, and erosion and yet again you fail to answer why enforcing current laws such as the 150 feet rule are deficient. Why not focus your energy on enforcement or modification of current laws?

As for the EASE of HP enforcement, just how do envision the state does that? Pull the engines from every boat that is registered and put them on a dynamometer? NH cannot even fund the NHMP to enforce the laws already on the books.

And yet again I say that you have another agenda--it wasn't the SL and it's not high HP engines.

Enforcing current laws will do nothing to remove high horsepower boats from the lake. I think that is obvious.

A few scofflaws may take a 280 hp engine and increase it a little over the limit. So What! Try telling a Marine Patrol Officer that your 46' twin engine Carver is under 300hp.

As to your last comment, you have me confused. What is my agenda if not HP?

[topwater]

BI, What type, style, and length boat do you have? Or are you another one of those that have a kayak and a canoe and knows everything about speed.

[VtSteve]

A HP limit of 300 would definitely get you closer to Golden Pond BI. Would you recommend special exemptions for island dwellers? Many bowriders and cuddies would not make the 300 hp cut, and would probably limit the boat size to as much as an underpowered 24' boat. Although, Sea Ray has been known to sell 26' pocket cruisers with underpowered small blocks.

The trend now is towards diesels and outboards.

I can only imagine how the LR economy would deal with such a limit. The marinas and boat dealers would be the first hit. Since many have the agenda to limit lake access, trailer boating isn't all that much fun either. Then you'd have island people trying to get their belongings out for the summer with underpowered boats.

At least you've been honest about your agendas BI, you want to eliminate 2/3 of the boats on the lake, instead of concentrating on a small niche group. If the SL folks presented their case and reasoning honestly, people would have known that it was a takeover.

No rafting
No overnighting
no HP over 300
More and more No Wake Zones
45 mph daytime speed limit


All of these regulations, and a skeleton crew of Marine Patrol to enforce the laws, and keep up with the drunks. Winni is starting to sound like a small pond.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

A HP limit of 300 would definitely get you closer to Golden Pond BI. Would you recommend special exemptions for island dwellers? Many bowriders and cuddies would not make the 300 hp cut, and would probably limit the boat size to as much as an underpowered 24' boat. Although, Sea Ray has been known to sell 26' pocket cruisers with underpowered small blocks.

The trend now is towards diesels and outboards.

I can only imagine how the LR economy would deal with such a limit. The marinas and boat dealers would be the first hit. Since many have the agenda to limit lake access, trailer boating isn't all that much fun either. Then you'd have island people trying to get their belongings out for the summer with underpowered boats.

At least you've been honest about your agendas BI, you want to eliminate 2/3 of the boats on the lake, instead of concentrating on a small niche group. If the SL folks presented their case and reasoning honestly, people would have known that it was a takeover.

No rafting
No overnighting
no HP over 300
More and more No Wake Zones
45 mph daytime speed limit


All of these regulations, and a skeleton crew of Marine Patrol to enforce the laws, and keep up with the drunks. Winni is starting to sound like a small pond.

I own a 280 hp bowrider (now you know where the number 300 comes from) and a 15 hp aluminum. I also have a kayak, a canoe and a homemade human powered pedal cat. My favorite kind of boat to operate is a PWC but I don't own one right now.

Steve, I think you are a little confused about island dwellers. My bowrider is probably the fastest boat on the island and I only know of one island boat that has more horsepower than mine.

You can't seriously think that 2/3 of the boats on the lake are over 300 hp. That is just nuts. My guess would be under 5%. Anyway the law I would like to see will not remove ANY boats from the lake. I think you missed that point. It would also, over the years, create more work for marinas and boat re-builders as older, high HP boats became more in demand. There will still be sales of high HP boats except they will be used boats.

If you don't think 300 hp is the right number then fine, make it 350, 400 whatever you like. Boat prices tend to jump when you move past a single prop outdrive. I think that is a logical place to make a cutoff point. By the way, I only know of one boat on the island with more than one prop.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I own a 280 hp bowrider (now you know where the number 300 comes from) and a 15 hp aluminum. I also have a kayak, a canoe and a homemade human powered pedal cat. My favorite kind of boat to operate is a PWC but I don't own one right now.

Steve, I think you are a little confused about island dwellers. My bowrider is probably the fastest boat on the island and I only know of one island boat that has more horsepower than mine.

You can't seriously think that 2/3 of the boats on the lake are over 300 hp. That is just nuts. My guess would be under 5%. Anyway the law I would like to see will not remove ANY boats from the lake. I think you missed that point. It would also, over the years, create more work for marinas and boat re-builders as older, high HP boats became more in demand. There will still be sales of high HP boats except they will be used boats.

If you don't think 300 hp is the right number then fine, make it 350, 400 whatever you like. Boat prices tend to jump when you move past a single prop outdrive. I think that is a logical place to make a cutoff point. By the way, I only know of one boat on the island with more than one prop.

The right number is 235,564,234,654pi divided by 2 plus 3. That's the right number. Yes, I factored in all variables and I'm positive that's the maximum horsepower on Lake Winni. It's 100% accurate. End of discussion. Go out and enjoy the good weather.

[NoBozo]

I don't know BI personally but he has posted enough that I think I know him well enough to ask this question...Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

How many horsepower does it take to get to the Edge Of SPACE?

As posted by himself, BI has signed on ($200,000) to ride Virgin Galactic to the Edge of Space...1 of 6 passengers at a time.

BTW: I have NO PROBLEM with people spending their OWN money any way they want. ..I just get Confused ..when their philosophy seems to conflict with their real life actions: NB

[BroadHopper]

About 6:30 PM last night a large pontoon boat loaded with families plowed through the Weirs Channel at about 15 mph. He was throwing a good size wake and traveling way to fast in a no wake zone. I was motioning to him to slow down. The skipper just stared at me with a big grin across his face. The definitely need marine patrol presence. The boneheads are out in full force!

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

I don't know BI personally but he has posted enough that I think I know him well enough to ask this question...Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

How many horsepower does it take to get to the Edge Of SPACE?

As posted by himself, BI has signed on ($200,000) to ride Virgin Galactic to the Edge of Space...1 of 6 passengers at a time.

BTW: I have NO PROBLEM with people spending their OWN money any way they want. ..I just get Confused ..when their philosophy seems to conflict with their real life actions: NB

I'm sorry you are confused about my philosophy. I have no problem with high speed boats or big boats. Provided they are operated where it is appropriate. And in my opinion Winnipesaukee is not the appropriate venue.

My destination is not the "Edge of Space". We will travel well past the edge of space, into space itself.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I'm sorry you are confused about my philosophy. I have no problem with high speed boats or big boats. Provided they are operated where it is appropriate. And in my opinion Winnipesaukee is not the appropriate venue.

My destination is not the "Edge of Space". We will travel well past the edge of space, into space itself.

I'll not argue with your HP limits, you've explained them well enough.

Such a rush thinking about outer space, you're a lucky guy.

I know what you'd like on Winni, at least I think I do, some only guess.
_______________________________________________
Without quibbling over HP, most Volvo and Mercruiser V8 stern drives are between 220HP and 320 or so if memory serves me right, those would be the 5.0 and 5.7 liter engines. Mine's a 5.0 at 260HP. Those engines, as well as some V6 powerplants, would be on boats from about 19' through 23'24'. At some point, the HO engines are preferable due to the weight of the boat. So you have bowriders, cuddies and deck boats with these engines. Some smaller cruisers as well, which are very underpowered and tend to use more gas and plow for quite a ways.

I know those aren't your target boats. If I read you correctly, these are the boats that would be prevented from being used on Winnipesaukee for boat model years 2012 and later.

1) Most every cruiser (but certainly not all), from around 26' and up. (don;t hold me to exact estimates, because I've seen Bayliner cruisers with a 5.0 or 5.7 less than 300 hp)

2) Any and all boats having a Mercruiser 525, or 6.2 liter engine. This would cover some cruisers, but mostly all performance boats.

3) Most any boat with twin engines. Again, mostly limited to cruisers and performance boats.

4) Quite a few newer 300 hp to 350 hp outboards out there. Bass boats, etc..


So what can be bought new and run on your Lake Winnipesaukee?

All sailboats, human-powered etc...
Party boats
recreational boats that meet your restrictions
Hardly any cruisers.

Basically, Winni would be a lake for boats under 25', but some over that size would meet the criteria.

I guess in a perfect world, everyone would have the same boat I did, or maybe boating on the lake would be just for me. No nasty waves on weekends, no traffic, no nothing but what I wanted. Trust me BI, I know where you are coming from. I've seen out of control lakes, filled with boneheads that seem to be able to afford anything. I just think your version of Nirvana should not become law.

[lawn psycho]

I don't know where you guys are getting your assumptions but there are a lot of 350 and 454 cu in motors on boats. TONS of them.

Should someone try and pass a Hp or boat displacement limit, it would then have to be written to exempt certain vessels like the Mount Washington. However I suspect you would then be violating commerce laws as you would then be granting a monopoly to a single business.

This has no chance of happening and I hope the "Miserables" take up this cause and try and get a bill sponsored. I seriously want to see someone try and bring it forward.

BI and the gang now have a credibilty issue based on statements during the SL debate.....

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

I don't know where you guys are getting your assumptions but there are a lot of 350 and 454 cu in motors on boats. TONS of them.

Should someone try and pass a Hp or boat displacement limit, it would then have to be written to exempt certain vessels like the Mount Washington. However I suspect you would then be violating commerce laws as you would then be granting a monopoly to a single business.

This has no chance of happening and I hope the "Miserables" take up this cause and try and get a bill sponsored. I seriously want to see someone try and bring it forward.

BI and the gang now have a credibilty issue based on statements during the SL debate.....

Sometimes you need to read the fine print.

"A 300 horsepower limit on non-commercial boats manufactured after 2012"

My proposal does not include any boat now in existence, or commercial boats.

Take a trip back to 2005 and read what was said about speed limits on this forum. Notice that speed limits have "no chance" and "will never pass" and are "just a joke". You will also notice yours truly making the EXACT same arguments I make today, and every one of them the truth.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=1425

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

My destination is not the "Edge of Space". We will travel well past the edge of space, into space itself.

One-way ticket?

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

This is a perfect example of why the lake needs a 300 horsepower limit on non-commercial boats manufactured after 2012.

1. You seem to hate everything about boats on Winni? You should seriously consider moving as you must be a miserable _____.

2. Take a cruise around BI. See all those houses sitting close to the shore? Where do the go to the bathroom? How many of those houses have beaches that they added?
You want to protect water quality? Tear downing your friggin house and have Ms Helve do the same. Put your money where you mouth is.

3. Under 300 Hp? MUUUUWAHAHAHAHA. Good luck with that. Different animal than the speed limit. This is one were the marinas and boating industry will squash you. My 22 ft boat has a 320 Hp motor and any less it would be underpowered.

4. You seem to like to pull things out of thin air (or certain orifices) but since the 45 MPH limit was arbitrary why not make the limit 299.7345 so the number matches the random nature of numbers you use?

Oh yeah, you can take the same displacement motor and increase the Hp above the plate rating and it's not big money to do right from the factory

Horsepower has no correlation to wake but then you where never one to care about factual data anyways....

Sure, go after the larger boats with bigger displacement (as in weight, not engine displacement). You think the marinas who get $$$$$$$$$$$$ from those boats that sit mostly tied to their docks all season are going to lay silent on this? I think even you know better but go ahead and try so I can get some popcorn and watch as you, Sandy, EL, APS, et al wage this battle. It will be good entertainment.

There is also an organization already up and running that won't have to play catch-up if you and you ilk are foolish enough to get the ear of a legislator and throw a Hp bill into the pile

The lake water quality is waiting for you to call the wrecking ball company. We're waiting....