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Old 07-12-2018, 06:38 AM   #1
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Default Attention! Loon needs your help!

http://www.wmur.com/article/predator...signs/22122378


Please call the number if you have seen any flagrant activity!
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:57 AM   #2
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This is the very thing we see with boaters after the baby loons are born. The loon parents have them in a protected area and boaters go too close to see them and it flushes them out causing them to leave their baby or drive all the loons out into boat traffic. It's so sad.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:20 AM   #3
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Default Not just power boaters

Over in Robert's Cove, it is not only power boaters who encroach on the floating nest area (or the loons swimming away from the nest area with chicks), it is also kayakers, canoeists, paddleboarders.

Not giving them their space during their nesting period, and then while the chicks are young and vulnerable, gets them stressed. They will do excessive calling, stretch their necks out low to the water, often splashing the water with one wing.

Enjoy them from a distance. Often, we have had loons swim right up to our boat, say within 20-25 ft, even with chicks. Of course, we're not blasting music, and as they near us, we keep our movements to a minimum.

Dave
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:53 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by upthesaukee View Post
Over in Robert's Cove, it is not only power boaters who encroach on the floating nest area (or the loons swimming away from the nest area with chicks), it is also kayakers, canoeists, paddleboarders.

Not giving them their space during their nesting period, and then while the chicks are young and vulnerable, gets them stressed. They will do excessive calling, stretch their necks out low to the water, often splashing the water with one wing.

Enjoy them from a distance. Often, we have had loons swim right up to our boat, say within 20-25 ft, even with chicks. Of course, we're not blasting music, and as they near us, we keep our movements to a minimum.

Dave
Believe it or not, sailboats getting too close to loons are devastating to them as well according to a biologist I spoke with a few years back. Apparently the sight and slapping of the sails absolutely terrifies them and puts them under extreme stress.

I guess the lesson here is give them space no matter what boat your in!

Dan
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:28 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by upthesaukee View Post
Over in Robert's Cove, it is not only power boaters who encroach on the floating nest area (or the loons swimming away from the nest area with chicks), it is also kayakers, canoeists, paddleboarders.

Not giving them their space during their nesting period, and then while the chicks are young and vulnerable, gets them stressed. They will do excessive calling, stretch their necks out low to the water, often splashing the water with one wing.

Enjoy them from a distance. Often, we have had loons swim right up to our boat, say within 20-25 ft, even with chicks. Of course, we're not blasting music, and as they near us, we keep our movements to a minimum.

Dave
I totally agree with you. Kayakers etc ARE worse because they can go in the shallow areas and get closer.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:19 PM   #6
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Question #Slapping Sails...

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Believe it or not, sailboats getting too close to loons are devastating to them as well according to a biologist I spoke with a few years back. Apparently the sight and slapping of the sails absolutely terrifies them and puts them under extreme stress. I guess the lesson here is give them space no matter what boat your in! Dan
Last week, (our only three) Winter Harbor loons popped up in front of my sailboat. At 2 or 3-MPH, I wouldn't be as great a threat as other boats. Since this is a frequent occurrence, powerboats surely are worthy of mention.

This morning, a single loon popped up in front of my sailboat. He gave me a long dirty look, and dove out of sight.

Sailboats have a much deeper draft than most other boats, and therefore have limited proximity to nests, so let's go easy on the criticism. (Sails slapping?)

You'll notice the link's recommendation is to stay 150 feet away—still another reason to support (and observe) New Hampshire's 150 foot RSA waterway rule.

.

Additionally, last week's fireworks had our three loons calling out their "threat" vocalization.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:27 PM   #7
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Sailboats have a much deeper draft than most other boats, and therefore have limited proximity to nests, so let's go easy on the criticism. (Sails slapping?)
Criticism? Dan merely passed on information received from a biologist.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:49 PM   #8
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Sailboats have a much deeper draft than most other boats, and therefore have limited proximity to nests, so let's go easy on the criticism. (Sails slapping?)
Far from a criticism APS ... As a matter of fact I do quite a bit to SUPPORT sailing on the lake...so chill!

My point was, it does not matter what kind of boat you have, nesting loons (keyword being "nesting") are drastically affected and severely stressed by ANY approaching watercraft and sailboats are not immune to that fact, nor is any other type of non motorized watercraft! The simple point is stay away from nesting loons!

Mature loons swimming around in the wide open water while your sailing are not an issue, they can dive if and when they are frightened to escape without issue. As a matter of fact I too have them swim right up next to my boat when trolling occasionally. Just last week a pair of them came within 20' of my boat, they didn't seem scared just curious.They eventually dove away peacefully on their own. If scared when nesting there is a good possibility they will abandon their nest.

Dan
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:06 PM   #9
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Just last week a pair of them came within 20' of my boat, they didn't seem scared just curious.They eventually dove away peacefully on their own. If scared when nesting there is a good possibility they will abandon their nest.

Dan
Hey Dan they aren't dumb they know who catches all the fish in the lake! Word gets out even amongst the tight lipped Loon community. Want a free lunch? Follow Dan!
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:20 PM   #10
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Question If only those windsurfers would get out my way...

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Believe it or not, sailboats getting too close to loons are devastating to them as well according to a biologist I spoke with a few years back. Apparently the sight and slapping of the sails absolutely terrifies them and puts them under extreme stress. I guess the lesson here is give them space no matter what boat your in! Dan
Oh yes, I enjoy visiting shallow water loon nests with my deep-draft sailboat, and especially when there's so much wind that my sails are "slapping".

This "believe-it-or-not-biologist" seems to have failed to advise Squam Lakes Association, the Loon Preservation Committee, and the New Hampshire Fish & Game of his sailboat assertion. Perhaps some member here can back him up.

Until it is documented by the above, it didn't occur.

.
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:25 AM   #11
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Oh yes, I enjoy visiting shallow water loon nests with my deep-draft sailboat, and especially when there's so much wind that my sails are "slapping".

This "believe-it-or-not-biologist" seems to have failed to advise Squam Lakes Association, the Loon Preservation Committee, and the New Hampshire Fish & Game of his sailboat assertion. Perhaps some member here can back him up.

Until it is documented by the above, it didn't occur. :[U][U]rolleye2:

.
APS, are you off your meds??... I love the way you twist and distort facts to cause conflict. I never accused you of sailing your deep keel boat near loon nest sites!

Oh and by the way when you cut and pasted your links above you should of left the entire paragraph in. What’s in bold is what you casually left out...here it is fully documented as you requested from your own source!!

“Disturbance from sailboats and wind-surfing has not been documented, however anecdotal and behavioral evidence suggest a flapping sail can be perceived as a visual threat, and therefore has the potential to disrupt nesting and brooding activity, even in areas of high recreational use.”

“Believe it or not”...

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Old 07-14-2018, 11:59 AM   #12
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Typical APS post. His facts are the alternative kind, parsed and distorted to suit his agenda. To utilize his “missing” theme, what is missing from this particular post and in fact from most of his comments are facts and common sense.
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:52 PM   #13
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Typical APS post. His facts are the alternative kind, parsed and distorted to suit his agenda. To utilize his “missing” theme, what is missing from this particular post and in fact from most of his comments are facts and common sense.
APS should run for Congress...he would fit right in!
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:32 PM   #14
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Arrow When "Hard Facts" are Scarce, There's Anecdote...

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APS, are you off your meds??... I love the way you twist and distort facts to cause conflict. I never accused you of sailing your deep keel boat near loon nest sites!

Oh and by the way when you cut and pasted your links above you should of left the entire paragraph in. What’s in bold is what you casually left out...here it is fully documented as you requested from your own source!!

“Disturbance from sailboats and wind-surfing has not been documented, however anecdotal and behavioral evidence suggest a flapping sail can be perceived as a visual threat, and therefore has the potential to disrupt nesting and brooding activity, even in areas of high recreational use.”

“Believe it or not”...

Having summered many years in an area of relatively high Common Loon population, I recognize the short "threat-call" made by Loons. In most recent years, that abrupt call has been sounded for fireworks, Bald Eagles, and Ultralight aircraft. When that call is taken up by crows, you can be dead-certain there's a Bald Eagle overhead!

Photo credit, Vermonter Jon Winslow: That doesn't mean that Loons are defenseless against Bald Eagle attacks!



While I welcome the return of the Bald Eagle, making all those "snapping sailboats" a threat to the nests of Loons is "high-anecdotal evidence".

Has this "undocumented biologist" noticed the presence of boats that make artificially steep wakes for "lake surfing".

Wiki:
Quote:
The common loon abandons lakes that fail to provide suitable nesting habitat due to shoreline development. It is endangered by personal water-craft and powerboats that may drown newly born chicks, wash eggs away, or swamp nests.[69]
Note the relative importance of "anecdotal" evidence:
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:45 PM   #15
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Having summered many years in an area of relatively high Common Loon population, I recognize the short "threat-call" made by Loons. In most recent years, that abrupt call has been sounded for fireworks, Bald Eagles, and Ultralight aircraft. When that call is taken up by crows, you can be dead-certain there's a Bald Eagle overhead!

Photo credit, Vermonter Jon Winslow: That doesn't mean that Loons are defenseless against Bald Eagle attacks!



While I welcome the return of the Bald Eagle, making all those "snapping sailboats" a threat to the nests of Loons is "high-anecdotal evidence".

Has this "undocumented biologist" noticed the presence of boats that make artificially steep wakes for "lake surfing".

Wiki:


Note the relative importance of "anecdotal" evidence:
Sorry APS, but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Anyway, have a nice rest of the summer!

Dan
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:40 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by ApS View Post
Having summered many years in an area of relatively high Common Loon population, I recognize the short "threat-call" made by Loons. In most recent years, that abrupt call has been sounded for fireworks, Bald Eagles, and Ultralight aircraft. When that call is taken up by crows, you can be dead-certain there's a Bald Eagle overhead!
Just as a casual observer that entire statement you made is anecdotal thus has zero basis in fact other than your perceived observation. If you really expect me to believe that fireworks (as an example) are any more scary to a loon than a passing severe thunderstorm I'd like to see evidence that a Loon can really tell the difference.

Just because you disagree with another's theory doesn't make the veracity of your claim any more or less relevant. Bottom line is human interaction of any kind has the potential to disturb loons. In fact I would say just your mere presence "summering many years in an area of relatively high Common Loon population" may very well have resulted in how many chicks not making it to adulthood?
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:03 PM   #17
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Just as a casual observer that entire statement you made is anecdotal thus has zero basis in fact other than your perceived observation. If you really expect me to believe that fireworks (as an example) are any more scary to a loon than a passing severe thunderstorm I'd like to see evidence that a Loon can really tell the difference.

Just because you disagree with another's theory doesn't make the veracity of your claim any more or less relevant. Bottom line is human interaction of any kind has the potential to disturb loons. In fact I would say just your mere presence "summering many years in an area of relatively high Common Loon population" may very well have resulted in how many chicks not making it to adulthood?
You make good points, but I'm not so sure of your conclusions:

Sure, most of us can probably accept that fireworks are no worse for loons and other wildlife than a thunderstorm. But the thunder is beyond our control and the fireworks are entirely discretionary. Just as it would be stressful for loons if the number of thunderstorms increased, when we increase the noise we can control, we are stressing the loons.

Similarly, I agree that my presence has an impact on the lake, and that wildlife would be better off if there were fewer humans, houses, boats, etc. But I just take that as a reason to be thoughtful about reducing the impact I have in whatever reasonable ways I can think of. Quieter boats, fewer fireworks, less cutting of trees and brush, etc
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:17 PM   #18
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Arrow Observations vs Documentations vs Anecdotes...

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APS, are you off your meds??... I love the way you twist and distort facts to cause conflict. I never accused you of sailing your deep keel boat near loon nest sites! Oh and by the way when you cut and pasted your links above you should of left the entire paragraph in. What’s in bold is what you casually left out...here it is fully documented as you requested from your own source!! “Disturbance from sailboats and wind-surfing has not been documented, however anecdotal and behavioral evidence suggest a flapping sail can be perceived as a visual threat, and therefore has the potential to disrupt nesting and brooding activity,[/U][/B] even in areas of high recreational use.”

“Believe it or not”...
They've gone and shot themselves in the foot by claiming windsurfers have "flapping sails". I notice they hadn't documented that!

Quote:
Sorry APS, but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Anyway, have a nice rest of the summer! Dan
Bald Eagles are a major predator of Loon nests: Hope that clears any misunderstandings.

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Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
Just as a casual observer that entire statement you made is anecdotal thus has zero basis in fact other than your perceived observation. If you really expect me to believe that fireworks (as an example) are any more scary to a loon than a passing severe thunderstorm I'd like to see evidence that a Loon can really tell the difference. Just because you disagree with another's theory doesn't make the veracity of your claim any more or less relevant. Bottom line is human interaction of any kind has the potential to disturb loons. In fact I would say just your mere presence "summering many years in an area of relatively high Common Loon population" may very well have resulted in how many chicks not making it to adulthood?
My statement could be taken as anecdotal, but when we're on the porch, and I tell my family:

1) "There's a Bald Eagle in the air", they reach for their cameras, and excitedly wait by the porch railing. Seldom are we disappointed, except sometimes the Bald Eagle passes so close—and so quickly—we don't have a chance to get our cameras going!

2) "There's a Loon in flight"—same result, except the Loon (up to five at a time) is/are usually a half-mile distant, and difficult to spot against the opposite shore's tree line. My best is a two-minute video—crudely scanning one in flight—but only about one second shows the Loon clearly.


From Loon.org:
Quote:
The tremolo is also known as the "crazy laugh." It is used to signal alarm, and sometimes at night to vocally advertise and defend its territory. A slightly modified version of the tremolo is sometimes given by flying loons.
What distinguishes the call for me, is that the call is given while rapidly moving.

——————

As for fireworks vs. thunder: fireworks are most-often accompanied by an aerial display, which must be terrifying to nesting Loons.

During today's two thunderstorms, I heard no Loon calls—as is usually the case.

As for my "personal effect on Loons", I quote a third-generation Winter Harborite—whose grandfather knew my grandfather—and whose personal years on Winter Harbor overlap my own:

Quote:
"Jim is right about the spreading of loons.

I think two phenomena are in play, 1), the increased protection by groups such as the Loon Preservation Society and the Lakes Region Conservation Commission, and, 2), the evolutionary adaptation and socialization of the loon to the presence of humans. I have power boated in areas of the Lake and seen certain portions of islands actually blocked off with a string of milk bottle floats protecting a loon nesting area.

I have been canoeing in Winter Harbor and in Wolfeboro Bay and loons hardly get out of your way. I would not go so far as to say loons are overly populated, but there are plenty of loons on Winnipesaukee."
Favorable Loon nesting areas in Winter Harbor are scarce, and I don't think I've ever seen a baby Loon in my lifetime.

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I don't know—NBC's Brian Williams has outdone me already.



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