Winni Water Quality A Concern

[Just Sold]

From Today's Citizen:

Lake Winnipesaukee water quality said worrisome

By RON TUNNING Special to The Citizen

Wednesday, January 6, 2010
Volunteers from and collaboration among the municipalities lining Lake Winnipesaukee are needed if the region's top natural resource is to be preserved for future generations and continue to support economic growth.

That was the consensus that emerged from a gathering of over 50 residents, municipal planners, conservationists and environmentalists in Meredith Tuesday hosted by the Lake Winnipesaukee Watershed Association and the North Country Resource Conservation & Development Area Council.

Analyzing data collected over the past 25 years, state, regional and local officials have worked together to produce models to evaluate current water conditions and quality.

"We are focusing on phosphorous," noted council member Pat Tarpey, explaining that phosphorous is a major contributor to the growth of algae and milfoil. The state of New Hampshire is currently in the process of adopting rules that would regulate the level of phosphorous to 8.0 parts per billion (ppb) in bodies of water categorized as Oligotrophic, meaning they present high quality water with few nutrients to sustain plant life.

According to new standards being adopted by the state, any body of water exhibiting more than 7.2 ppb would be considered impaired, demanding rigorous requirements for any level of development to occur in the watershed area.

For Lake Winnipesaukee, the trend that has evolved over the past 25 years does not look good, with phosphorous levels growing from 4.9 ppb to an estimated median over the past ten years of 6.0 ppb. Current models indicate that even with Best Management Practices (BMPs) implemented and enforced, the estimated 2009 phosphorous levels in Lake Waukewan were 15.9 ppb, in Meredith Bay were 8.6 ppb, in Sanders Bay 7.2 ppb, and in Paugus Bay 6.6 ppb.

The state standards, however, apply to the entire body of water, not to sub-watershed areas such as the bays, around which heavy development has occurred, contributing significantly to the problem. However, as development activity continues to expand around the lake, the overall phosphorous level is expected to increase.

Thus, in developing a watershed management plan the emphasis has been on identifying and monitoring sub-watershed areas. "The sub-watershed approach is on a smaller scale and has a better chance of success," observed Erica Anderson, senior planner with the Lakes Region Planning Commission (LRPC).

Since 2006, officials from Meredith, Gilford and Laconia have been working together to monitor their respective sub-watershed areas, but actual testing has been sporadic at best. There is no state funding available, and the testing process is heavily dependent upon volunteers, of which there is a shortage.

Anderson encouraged municipalities to solicit more volunteers, tapping into local conservation and environmental groups. Necessary equipment and the actual testing of the water samples will be conducted by the University of New Hampshire.

But testing does nothing more than provide a snapshot of the lake's condition, which as Meredith Selectman Peter Brothers conceded, "Where our visitors see the water, we have a problem."

Solutions are far more daunting given the lack of funding, continued development, and the absence of a set template for municipalities to follow in devising their own rules and regulations.

The greatest contributors of phosphorous, according to Anderson, are septic systems and lawns which are typically heavily treated with a phosphorous-based fertilizer to promote growth. Combined, they account for 60 percent of the phosphorous load entering the lake. Educating homeowners, she said, is key to reducing the flow of phosphorous into the watershed areas.

Also important is that municipalities include within their planning regulations best management practices, which include filter strips on cropland, grass swales on transportation land uses, and grass swales on commercial land uses.

For Meredith Community Development Director John Edgar, the challenge is not so much with new development projects that come before the town's planning commission, but is dealing with existing developed property and smaller projects that don't come before the planning commission. "Let's find practical ways to bring them into compliance," he suggested, recommending as well that the various state and regional agencies work with municipalities in crafting proposed rules and regulations that can serve as a blueprint for all communities to follow.

Laconia Planning Director Shanna Saunders agreed. "We need a road map to follow," she said, "to make sure we're all on the same page."

As for costs of monitoring and cleanup, no one expressed any confidence in the state providing funding, even though, as one resident put it, "the state government is supported by tourism dollars."

As the Watershed Management Plan continues to evolve, Anderson said she hoped that municipalities would set their own standards and would work together, offering the support of the Lakes Region Planning Commission. Volunteers interested in assisting with the monitoring process should contact their municipalities planning department.

[mg2107]

One of the major obstacles in lowering phosphorus is that several towns with Winni shoreline have no treatment facilities, ie: Alton Bay has over 20 miles of Winni shoreline with no treatment facilities. More and more of the once seasonal homes have become year round and greatly enlarged. Time is running out I fear.

[Pineedles]

Is phosphorous from dishwasher and clothes washer detergent?

[Bill B.]

It's too late to slow down the development,everywhere you look there's a new house going up on the lake.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Is phosphorous from dishwasher and clothes washer detergent?

Here is a good link to see about phosphorous uses;

http://chandrasekaran.tripod.com/uses.html

The big phosphorous problem comes from all those nice green lawns. Firtilizers have a very high phosphorous content. As well I have heard that some beach sands have a phosphorous content to them as well. These of course leach into the lake eventually.... development will unfortunately kill paradise.

[Lakegeezer]

Fertlizer use is a problem, but the rules against its use are there and hopefully the scofflaws are pointed out. Another big source of phosphorous comes from run-off. The chemical/plant-food is stored in the ground. When lots are cleared (trees cut, driveways paved, homes built, roads constructed), heavy rains wash through the soil and bring new doses of phosphorous to the lake. The recent shoreline protection act is one weapon against this, but it does not go far enough.

This is a great article. It points out clearly that our lake is changing from oligotrphic to mesotrophic. In many spots, it already has.

From Wikipedia: Mesotrophic lakes are lakes with an intermediate level of productivity, greater than oligotrophic lakes, but less than eutrophic lakes. These lakes are commonly clear water lakes and ponds with beds of submerged aquatic plants and medium levels of nutrients.

This may not sound like a big deal, but it will likely reduce the attraction of the lakes region over the next 10-20 years. This is a fact we have to consider and probably accept. It will cost 10's of millions to attack the problem, and it may be too late for anything but delaying the decay. Where is THAT kind of money going to come from?

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

From Today's Citizen: as Meredith Selectman Peter Brothers conceded, "Where our visitors see the water, we have a problem."

So what the heck is he talking about....could be the very end of Meredith Bay that fronts Clough Park, the Inn at Bay Point, and Hesky Park, close to the big intersection. Tourists driv'n past on Routes 25 & 3 get to look out across the water, as they sit in traffic, and get an upclose view of all the green slimy stuff in the shallows that grows denser as summer progresses.

Overheard from a stall & crawl Lexus w/ Mass plates; "Oh yucky yucky....just look at all that green slimy water.....ugh gross.....do we really have to go swimming in this lake? That looks just like that Malaria Mud Puddle from back home.....ugh!"

Someone just spent 7.8-mil dollars on 8 waterfront acres that's about maybe 1000 feet up the east side of the bay from that area. They would probably not be pleased with yucky green stuff out front of their spot.

[Slickcraft]

Tomorrow personnel from UNH, DES plus local agencies and volunteers fan out across the lake to take water samples, some of the earliest in the year samples ever. This is a chance to take samples at a range of depths prior to the lake becoming stratified.

While dealing with the quality issues may be difficult, you really can't start unless you quantify the problems.

My wife and I are going to transport two of the personnel around to Sander's bay while several other boats are out in other areas.

[Jeanzb1]

Anyone who has a nice green weed-free lawn has been using Scott's and other fertilizers. BAD NEWS FOR THE LAKE. From what I've read, this is a major reason why the lake has an algae problem. All those "white dots" that you see in the water are actually "gleotrichia." We're on a shallow cove where the problem is especially noticeable starting in mid-August. YECH.
But indeed this is a very serious problem that EVERYONE needs to be concerned about. Remember, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Jeanzb1

Anyone who has a nice green weed-free lawn has been using Scott's and other fertilizers.

You are wrong. In fact, you will find that other than starter fertilizers, most individuals use phos-free fertilizer as that's what is marketed. It also helps that it's cheaper so people are more likely to use it. Nitrate loading is a factor but the phosphorus is the fire starter so to speak.

Some of us go to great lengths to use soybean meal for our fertilizer and have a trophy lawn that is weed free

It's very easy to point to the "obvious" and ignore the far more prevalent culprits. Leach fields near the lake are a HUGE contributor to water quality issues with the lake water. Every time a driveway is put in, deck built, home built, you are increasing the impervious surfaces and removing natural buffering of nutrient movement that otherwise would be held in place.

If water quality was a true concern, all lake front development would be banned. Think I'm kidding? Many lakes throughout the US do not permit ANY development along the shores to preserve not only water quality but the natural resource. Speed limit, rafting, launch ramp complaint just don't seem to be a problem either

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

You are wrong. In fact, you will find that other than starter fertilizers, most individuals use phos-free fertilizer as that's what is marketed. It also helps that it's cheaper so people are more likely to use it. Nitrate loading is a factor but the phosphorus is the fire starter so to speak.

Some of us go to great lengths to use soybean meal for our fertilizer and have a trophy lawn that is weed free

Lawn Pysco,

I thank you for your efforts not to use phosphorus containing fertilizers. However I must strongly disagree with you notion that most people don't use them. The #1 selling brand of fertilizers as best I know is Scotts, the last time I looked all of their products contained phosphorous to some extent.

As we have had some issues around my camp, I have been talking to many of my neighbors, most of them look at me when I tell them about the harmful effects of fertilizers with Bug eyes, run check the contents of their selected brand, and let out a sigh....

There has not been enough education about this problem for it not to be an issue. And forget about the small home owner treated lawns. I would love to know what is contained in the big chem lawn treating companies products.

Now you instead want to point your finger at septic systems.... well I don't completely disagree with you. As long as a system is functioning properly. All it is leaching into the ground is gray water... and as long as it has good distance to leach to the lake all the contaminants from the grey water never makes it to the lake. The bigger problem is the many, and I mean many season places that don't have all their plumbing going into the septic tank.... There are many many camps around the lake that dump the water from sinks and showers in to leaching tank directly.....This is untreated water leaching directly into the ground and is a problem. And sometime it is release just onto the ground.... When we looked for our place 15 years ago, I saw this as a very common practice, among seasonal camps.... the only thing that went to the septic, was the toilet.

[Jeanzb1]

News Flash:

My husband just retired from working as a senior turf specialist for TruGreen ChemLawn for 20 years. Most people opt for the standard "quick green-up" treatment, which contains phosphorus as the first number (largest ingredient.)
Furthermore, from where we are I can easily see homeowners pushing the broadcast fertilizer spreader around the lawn, right up to the water's edge. That being said, I'm sure that leaching fields from septic systems are also a problem. But to start addressing this very serious water quality problem, as a first step doesn't it make sense to educate people about the use of Scott's and other phosphorus-based fertilizers???

[Lakegeezer]

The hardware stores around here could clean up on selling low or no phosphorus lawn greener. However, when I have gone asking for some, they don't seem to get the question. Education is the key factor - we need to have people aware that there are alternatives and know where to get them. Most people will do the right thing if it is almost as easy.

Until I read Lawn Psycho's post, I didn't know about soybean fertilizer. Where can I get some? This week, I attended a presentation from UNH and DES on shoreline care. They indicated that zero phosphorus is best, but 2% is considered "low" - so the *second* number in the a-b-c fertilizer rating should be no more than 2.

A technology that would really help the lake is an inexpensive phosphorus water test. Then, we'd be able to test suspected areas of infiltration and build a map of where it is coming from.

My belief is that runoff is our most serious source of phosphorus. The shoreline protection act is meant to help, but each property owner on or near the lake should be thinking about how to slow down water from its journey into the lake.

[Shore Driver]

Originally Posted by Jeanzb1

News Flash:

My husband just retired from working as a senior turf specialist for TruGreen ChemLawn for 20 years. Most people opt for the standard "quick green-up" treatment, which contains phosphorus as the first number (largest ingredient.)
Furthermore, from where we are I can easily see homeowners pushing the broadcast fertilizer spreader around the lawn, right up to the water's edge. That being said, I'm sure that leaching fields from septic systems are also a problem. But to start addressing this very serious water quality problem, as a first step doesn't it make sense to educate people about the use of Scott's and other phosphorus-based fertilizers???

I once worked there too

The "first number" is Nitrogen, for quick green-up. Phosphorus is the 2nd, Potassium 3rd. A typical example from your hardware store might look like this:

31-4-8


Due to a greater awareness of the issues that arise from excess phosphorus, many fertilizers are going to a phosphorus-free blend, where you would look for a 0 in the 2nd number. These are becoming more common. Unfortunately, the average Joe homeowner might think he's getting jipped with a phosphorus-free blend, and seek out a bag that still contains it, or he buys from the commercial brands like Lesco, that still favor phosphorus in their mix.

Scotts, IMO, are not the guilty party here, but rather the ignorant homeowner.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

The hardware stores around here could clean up on selling low or no phosphorus lawn greener. However, when I have gone asking for some, they don't seem to get the question. Education is the key factor - we need to have people aware that there are alternatives and know where to get them. Most people will do the right thing if it is almost as easy.

Until I read Lawn Psycho's post, I didn't know about soybean fertilizer. Where can I get some? This week, I attended a presentation from UNH and DES on shoreline care. They indicated that zero phosphorus is best, but 2% is considered "low" - so the *second* number in the a-b-c fertilizer rating should be no more than 2.

A technology that would really help the lake is an inexpensive phosphorus water test. Then, we'd be able to test suspected areas of infiltration and build a map of where it is coming from.

My belief is that runoff is our most serious source of phosphorus. The shoreline protection act is meant to help, but each property owner on or near the lake should be thinking about how to slow down water from its journey into the lake.

LIforrelaxin,

Fecal microbes can travel laterally through soil over 5-10 years at distances of 100 feet or more. The leach field principle is one of dilution. That dilution is with filtering of rain water that percolates into the soil and the leachate water combines with the groundwater. If you have rocky soil, slopes, high water table, it means more leaching of setic water into the groundwater at a higher rate.

The effluent from you septic tank has nitrogen which is not broken down in the retention tank. Also, day in and day out that our tanks are not 100% efficient as flows change from day to day.

You may not want to admit it, but any of you who live on the water are contributing to the problem with every flush, shower, run of the dishwasher. I'd like to know if data has been compiled over many years to perform a regression of house lots versus water quality indicators. Not only septic fields, but simply adding impervious surfaces and removal of trees adds to the problem. Even the type of driveway sealer you use can impact water quality.

Lake Geezer,
The soybean meal is not something you will find on big box shelves. Usually comes in 50 lb bags and you can get it at feedstores and some Agways. You can also use corn gluten meal for weed defense but I have found keeping the grass slightly taller and hand pulling the one or two weeds that come in is easier. In other words, don't let the weeds get started.

When first establishing a brand new lawn, I go with synthetic fertilizers such a Scott's to get the intitial feedings and once my soil tests show I'm where I need to be, I swtich to soybean meal.

It's slower acting and you won't get a 3 day pop in green, it's gradual and over time you lawn will look great. Takes about 3 weeks to notice as the proteins in the soybean breaks down. I feed in mid-April and then the Federal Holidays. Memorial Day, July 4th, Labor Day, and a final feeding around the first week of October.

If you use kentucky bluegrass seed, just be PATIENT. It takes 3 years from start to trophy if properly fed and cut at the right height.

You can buy "organic" (as in protein based) fertilizers for your lawn such as Cockadoodle Doo or the Espoma brands. The latter two you will find at places like nurseries or Agways.

Also, shoot for a soil pH of 7.5 Don't use the junk field test kits from HD or Lowe's, send it to a soil testing service. I use the Maine soil testing service. I'm sure UNH has something similar but haven't checked.

[topwater]

Does anyone really believe this will change in the future? I don't ! It will never get better, only worse like anything else that is talked about here. We can talk till we're blue in the face, but it won't change anything. Yes, we want it to, Yes, that would make this world so much nicer, But way to many people just DON'T CARE. They talk a good game but thats as far as it goes.
Thats todays society, as long as I(ME) am not inconvienced, then things are good. It would be wonderful if things did change, but they never will!!! They will only get worse. I am not a optimist, nor a pessimist, just a realist.
I'm sure I'll get a fallout on this one, but there will be many of you who will not respond that agree whole heartly.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by topwater

Does anyone really believe this will change in the future? I don't ! It will never get better, only worse like anything else that is talked about here. We can talk till we're blue in the face, but it won't change anything. Yes, we want it to, Yes, that would make this world so much nicer, But way to many people just DON'T CARE. They talk a good game but thats as far as it goes.
Thats todays society, as long as I(ME) am not inconvienced, then things are good. It would be wonderful if things did change, but they never will!!! They will only get worse. I am not a optimist, nor a pessimist, just a realist.
I'm sure I'll get a fallout on this one, but there will be many of you who will not respond that agree whole heartly.

First, you got your definitions mixed up; Pessimist = Experienced optimist


Second, yes I do believe this will change. In one day, nope. Removal of the phosphorus from products that go into wastewater started to be addressed years go with detergents. There is a long list of chemicals that are no longer allowed or allowed with restrictions by application.

An example: MSMA is the silver bullet for killing crabgrass but the arsenic component has it on a short life span as the ban is coming and already set into motion. Warning to those who will run out and look for this as you can still buy it; They ain't kiddin' when you see how small of amount you need in your sprayer.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Jeanzb1

News Flash:

My husband just retired from working as a senior turf specialist for TruGreen ChemLawn for 20 years. Most people opt for the standard "quick green-up" treatment, which contains phosphorus as the first number (largest ingredient.)
Furthermore, from where we are I can easily see homeowners pushing the broadcast fertilizer spreader around the lawn, right up to the water's edge. That being said, I'm sure that leaching fields from septic systems are also a problem. But to start addressing this very serious water quality problem, as a first step doesn't it make sense to educate people about the use of Scott's and other phosphorus-based fertilizers???

Newsflash: The "lawn" service companies are the one's pushing the high nitrogen. Homeowner's don't "opt" for it. Ever notice there is ONE tank on the back of the truck for fertilizer? The reason lawn service companies push a fertilizer with a high nitrogren content is the grass plant can quickly use it for food and hence the quick green up. The consumer then thinks they are getting some kind of value. The problem is, the way to a healthly lawn is the soil. Bad soil = bad lawn. However, give me a bad lawn and I can push a ton of nitrogen to it and it will be green. Stop feeding and the issues return. What's worse is they also use cheap seed, not sod quality so they are acutually planting weeds into your lawn as a bone-us should you have them do an over-seed.

Ever notice that lawn services don't use a true soil tests for each lawn? Did you know that a soil test is the ONLY way to know how much fertilizer is needed in your turf? Soil needs to have organic matter which is also measured in the soil test. The lawn services all use a one-size-fits-all and if your soil is bad, the root of the problem is not addressed.

Having a nice lawn and landscaping is a serious hobby for me. One that I've got over 10 years of experience both practical as well as the two shelves of books I have just on grass and soil management. Some of us know what we're doing so when you make a blanket statement that people are using "Scott's" if they have nice lawn, you painted with too broad a brush.

I have a lot of fun with my lawn and plants. I get sick of hearing people tell me I must be using a ton of chemicals, yada, yada.

Start with the best sod quality seed you can buy and plant it into good soil and that's 90% of the battle. You can either get the seed from a local sod farm or order it online. The last 10% is proper cutting (height, sharp blade) and feeding in the right amounts and at the right time.

And by the way, fertilier content is given as N-P-K

You couldn't pay me to have the hacks of Lawn Dog, Scotts, or TruSuck to even walk on my lawn.

[SAMIAM]

We have a lawn treatment service once a month during the season and they won't go anywhere near the lake.......I think they are regulated by law. Anyway, we have beautiful green grass on the road side and mostly clover (which we like just as much) on the lake side. So, everyone is happy, including the deer. Clover is their favorite food and keeps them out of the garden.

[NoRegrets]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Newsflash: The "lawn" service companies are the one's pushing the high nitrogen....

....You couldn't pay me to have the hacks of Lawn Dog, Scotts, or TruSuck to even walk on my lawn.

Thanks you so much for your insite! We fired the Lawndog last year after several years of paying and at the end there is nothing left except to bring in new soil and hydroseed. Now with your posts I feel we will do a better job of not trusting the franchise (I am sure some are good) and be a better educated consumer.

Topwater - Things can change (not the Obama type!) and have over the decades. I remember Lake Erie was declared dead, cigarette smoking everywhere, lead paint, lead in gas, pesticides that killed bird eggs, and many other things that are removed from our daily lives.

[StephenB]

On a brighter note, as our civilization slides further and further into oil and (to a lesser extent) natural gas decline, look for less chemical green lawns, less Turf Builder, and less use of lakeside cottages as homes.

Then too, phosphorus is getting somewhat pricey as the easy-to-mine supplies are being gobbled up by the world-wide farming machine.

I don't foresee the lake returning to lower phosphorus levels anytime soon, but said levels might not grow as fast as some people think either.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by NoRegrets

Thanks you so much for your insite! We fired the Lawndog last year after several years of paying and at the end there is nothing left except to bring in new soil and hydroseed. Now with your posts I feel we will do a better job of not trusting the franchise (I am sure some are good) and be a better educated consumer.

NoRegrets, if you are paying for hydroseed, just be careful about seed selection that they offer. They will use a very high content of PR (perennial ryegrass). They do that for the fast germination. Here in NE you can certainly get a fairly nice looking lawn using PR.

If you are striving for the really nice lawn then go with a blend of sod quality Kentucky Bluegrass (KBG). It takes a full three weeks to germinate and will be thin in spots and requires more water days during initial establishment. However, it spreads via rhizhomes so overseeding is not needed unless you get a large area that dies off for some reason. After 2-3 seasons, you'll be a very happy camper with the dark green color. The dark green comes from the genetics of the KBG plant, not just from fertilizer. If you go with KBG, remember this word: patience.

You can get sod quality PR or KBG seed and have them load it into the hydroseeder. Personally, I've had better luck with my broadcast seeder. You also get some exercise and save money at the same time. I recommend www.seedsuperstore.com as I have had very good luck with their seed. They have both PR and KBG in sod quality. You can't get sod quality seed at HD or Lowe's as they simply don't sell it (primarily due to cost)

If you want something fun to do, go to HD or Lowe's and flip over the bags of seeds and look at the mixtures. You'll see two bags with identical packaging having different seed types This is why those bags can result in yards that look spotty as you can get fine, wide, and medium blade grass seeds and it ruins any chance of the 'uniform' look. Then homeowner then believes the soil must be different in those spots not knowing it was the seed.

Scott's has their "select" seed where every bag is that same but they use low grade seeds and you'll never see a retail bag have weed content of 0.00% like when you buy sod quality. With sod quality grass seed you will almost always find the germination rates of over 85-90%

Before you spend the money on new soil, I strongly suggest taking soil samples to see what you have. What I can tell you is if your pH is either way to high or low than that is where to start. The pH in the soil impacts nutrient uptake by the plant. Also, heavy shade = poor lawn.

If the test shows low organic matter (OM), have 1 to 2 inches of soil brought in and then core aerate the living daylight out of it to work it in with the top of your existing soil. Then seed and use a lawn roller. Keep lightly watering until the entire lawn is germinated. Never leave the soil 'wet' or having any pooling but rather keeping it continuosly damp is the goal. Watering is where a lot of people fail as it requires 2-3 times a day for 1-3 weeks.

If you have over 5% organic matter in your soil, and still can't get grass to establish, you have either a pH out of whack or gross macro nutrient deficiency that the test should reveal.

Lastly, do not bag your clippings. Mulch mowing is the way to go as it specifically addresses the organic matter over time.

[NoRegrets]

I feel like I need to go to an AA meeting for lawns! About 15 years ago we hired a landscape architect to design then build our yard. We had trees removed, land graded, sub soil brought in, then top soil. Stone work, flower "islands", pathways, then Hydroseeding. It was beautiful for a few years and we hired Lawndog to keep it up and a yard service to cut it.

Here is the AA part: 10 years ago we discovered boating so we were never home on weekends to work the yard and we did not pay attention to it. 2 years ago the grass looked horrible. All we had was moss and weeds. The flower beds and stone work are still great.

This winter we lost 6 trees in the wind and had some heavy equipment trash the yard. This is the catalyst to have a "do over" project on the yard.

After looking at the seedsuperstore website I realize I was clueless and let too much time go without getting involved.

Thanks so very much on the lessons and time you took to respond. Looks like I have a new project but this time I will be sure not to loose control! Who would figure a thread about Winni water conditions would end up with such a valuable interaction!

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by NoRegrets

Who would figure a thread about Winni water conditions would end up with such a valuable interaction!

Good soil and grass management does play a role in water quality (not just Lake Winni). Crappy soil means Joe/Jane Blow homeowner throws more fertilizer at the problem. If you can improve your soil then ultimately you end up using less fertilizer. Win-win situation.

It also plays into herbicides as crappy lawns are more prone to weeds and disease which means you have to use more chemicals to zap them.

Nothing beats a uniform, lush, dense lawn. And it does not take massive doses of chemicals to get there. Maintenance free is not part of the deal, however.

Now, golf courses and professional ball fields would scare you if you knew what they do. There's a reason the early morning fertilizer applications are done with respirators

[corollaman]

what is talking about and arguing about it on this forum gonna change?

Believe me, I was talking to my grandfather and he said the lakes rivers were FAR more polluted back in his day than they are today! The water had much worse stuff in it then. The Merrimack river, you couldn't even go swimming in it as late as the 1970's. It was very polluted. My mom walked home from Lowell High School everyday and had to cross the river to get home, it was a different color everyday! It depended on what dyes and other crap the factories dumped in it. I think things are much cleaner today because of the EPA and everything. We say we don't want all these govt agencies telling us what to do, but you know what, without them, we would destroy the environment! If we kept doing what we did back in the old days, we wouldn't have a river or a lake suitable for swimming in. The Govt is getting into our lives because we are too stubborn to police ourselves. Something had to be done about the environment, people didn't care enough about it to preserve it, obviously, because we were dumping crap in the rivers and lakes, so they had to form the EPA. So we had the chance to do the right thing, now we're forced to do the right thing.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Good soil and grass management does play a role in water quality (not just Lake Winni). Crappy soil means Joe/Jane Blow homeowner throws more fertilizer at the problem. If you can improve your soil then ultimately you end up using less fertilizer. Win-win situation.

It also plays into herbicides as crappy lawns are more prone to weeds and disease which means you have to use more chemicals to zap them.

Nothing beats a uniform, lush, dense lawn. And it does not take massive doses of chemicals to get there. Maintenance free is not part of the deal, however.

Now, golf courses and professional ball fields would scare you if you knew what they do. There's a reason the early morning fertilizer applications are done with respirators

Yeah, but if we're concerned with Lake water quality, then ANY fertilization of lawns should be banned outright. No exceptions. There's no need to feed a lakeside lawn. None at all.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Grant

Yeah, but if we're concerned with Lake water quality, then ANY fertilization of lawns should be banned outright. No exceptions. There's no need to feed a lakeside lawn. None at all.

Not true. You can use organic fertilizers. They're quite effective too.

[mg2107]

Sure lawn fertlizers play a role ,abeit a small one. Its the tons of sewage infiltrating thats the major culprit.

[NoRegrets]

We have the opinion that we want to be proud of where we live. We do not live in a "back to earth" natural granola landscape. I want a beautiful lush and semi formal lawn but may have done more damage to the earth until I saw what Lawn Pyscho has achieved in knowledge (and as his hobby!). When I see salt trucks in Mass. laying or spreading salt before storms I wonder how much damage that creates.

I will not denounce technology, advances in science, or being able to afford some luxuries. We do need to be concious about what we do and I am impressed and thankful LP has been a consistant and constructive contributor to the forum in many topics including this most current grass topic.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by NoRegrets

We have the opinion that we want to be proud of where we live. We do not live in a "back to earth" natural granola landscape. I want a beautiful lush and semi formal lawn but may have done more damage to the earth until I saw what Lawn Pyscho has achieved in knowledge (and as his hobby!). When I see salt trucks in Mass. laying or spreading salt before storms I wonder how much damage that creates.

I will not denounce technology, advances in science, or being able to afford some luxuries. We do need to be concious about what we do and I am impressed and thankful LP has been a consistant and constructive contributor to the forum in many topics including this most current grass topic.

Folks may find this book an intersting read: http://www.amazon.com/American-Green...0435096&sr=8-1

[MAXUM]

I'm a little curious as to how an organic fertilizer is any better than a chemical one for waterfront property? Although the makeup may be different, the purpose is the same so would not the result be the same as well?

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I'm a little curious as to how an organic fertilizer is any better than a chemical one for waterfront property? Although the makeup may be different, the purpose is the same so would not the result be the same as well?

A chemical fertilizer contains highly (relative term) soluble compounds. In fact, next time you see a fertilizer bag when you flip it over, you will usually see several different types of nitrogen based compounds as they offer a range of solubility. This plays into the marketing of slow-release, fast release fertilizers. If you put it down and then get heavy rains you then have run-off and the excess N-P-K eventually ends up in streams, etc.

With organic fertilizers think of them more like a compost pile. The existing soil microbes break down the fertilizer into the nutrients used by the grass plants. Think of it as eating slowly. Another bonus is that organic fertilizers secondarily serve as a soil conditioner by improving the organic matter that grass roots thrive in. You don't have to be concerned about run-off from organic fertilizers.

When you use something like soybean meal the concentration of N-P-K is many times lower than the chemical fertilizer. This is why I have to feed 5 times per year.

Not all "organic" fertilizers are given a free pass. Cow manure can contain a lot of nitrogen and whatever else left the back-end undigested and that run-off can create problems.

[CARDER LANE]

I moved to the Lake to enjoy the Lake, not the lawn. That being said, other than begrudgingly mowing, I have never fertilized, seeded or anythinged my lawn. It remains green lush and unfortunately fast growing. I did get rid of the septic system in favor of town sewer. I am doing all I can to reduce my phosphorous footprint on our beautiful lakes. Now if I could slow the growth down to allow for once a month mowing, that would allow more time for kayaking, fishing, swimming and all the other fun stuff our Lakes provide. Screw the lawn, get out there and enjoy the Lake.

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by CARDER LANE

I moved to the Lake to enjoy the Lake, not the lawn. That being said, other than begrudgingly mowing, I have never fertilized, seeded or anythinged my lawn. It remains green lush and unfortunately fast growing. I did get rid of the septic system in favor of town sewer. I am doing all I can to reduce my phosphorous footprint on our beautiful lakes. Now if I could slow the growth down to allow for once a month mowing, that would allow more time for kayaking, fishing, swimming and all the other fun stuff our Lakes provide. Screw the lawn, get out there and enjoy the Lake.

Ditto.

I often joke that we're dandelion farmers.
(They are tasty when harvested and prepared properly.)

I've noticed we've had a problem with erosion on our lawn. Our property is bordered on two sides by a brook that feeds into Merrymeeting River. In the 9 years we've been here, I've seen our back yard, closest to the brook, become a bit more bare and tree roots are showing up thru the soil. I'm not quite sure what we have to do to stop this or slow it down - and really don't want to have a big impact on land/water.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by CARDER LANE

Now if I could slow the growth down to allow for once a month mowing.... Screw the lawn, get out there and enjoy the Lake.

You have to move to the Carolinas or further south and plant zoysia for the slow growth.

Screw the lawn? Blasphemy

[tis]

I LOVE dandelion greens. When you get them young enough, they are soooo good! Just thinking of them makes my mouth water!

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by tis

I LOVE dandelion greens. When you get them young enough, they are soooo good! Just thinking of them makes my mouth water!

You have a formal invitation to come to my house and pick all you want.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

Ditto.

I often joke that we're dandelion farmers.
(They are tasty when harvested and prepared properly.)

I've noticed we've had a problem with erosion on our lawn. Our property is bordered on two sides by a brook that feeds into Merrymeeting River. In the 9 years we've been here, I've seen our back yard, closest to the brook, become a bit more bare and tree roots are showing up thru the soil. I'm not quite sure what we have to do to stop this or slow it down - and really don't want to have a big impact on land/water.

If you have trees and roots, that's a tough deal to get things to grow. For the purpose of erosion, I recommend a heavy mulch (only 1-2 inches deep for 4-5 ft from the tree.) You can plant a bunch of sage for some color. If you have deep shade with a dry area, that's even more challenging but some mulch will help to a small degree.

[snowbird]

Detergents containing no phoshates are now available. We are using them in the hope that enough people will do so to make a difference in our increasingly green lake water.

[ishoot308]

Has anyone tried "Eco Lawn"?? Supposedly this seed requires absolutely no fertilizer and grows anywhere. It's also low maintenance and only needs to be mowed a few times per year.
Sounds too good to be true to me but hey if it works it could be the perfect seed for your lakeside home!!

Dan

[Slickcraft]

The following from today's Laconia Daily Sun:

Workshop in Alton on April 19 will cover N.H. shoreline protection act
ALTON — UNH Cooperative Extension is offering
a workshop on understanding the Comprehensive
Shoreland Protection Act and Landscaping at
the Water’s Edge on Monday, April 19 at the Gilman
Museum In Alton. Learn about NH Comprehensive
Shoreland Protection Act and the 50 point method
and how they pertain to forestry and non-forestry
activities. Understand how landscaping choices, ecologically-
based design, and low-impact maintenance
can help protect, even improve, the quality of our
water resources. The presenters will be Cathy Neal,
UNHCE and Jay Aube, DES.
To register, call UNH Cooperative Extension at
603-447-3834 or 603-527-5475.
This workshop is co-sponsored by UNH Cooperative
Extension, New Hampshire Department of
Environmental Service and the New Hampshire
Division of Forests and Lands.

[Merrymeeting]

Lawn Psycho,

A company in our area is promoting organic lawn care using "Jonathan Green" products. Any insights on these products?

[Steveo]

Quote: Workshop in Alton on April 19 will cover N.H. shoreline protection act - ALTON

It really bothers me that they always seem to do these things on weekdays. I have to believe most of the people "on the shoreline" are out of towners that can only come up on weekends. These are the people that would get the most value out of something like this. I know I would really like to go.

So I called UNH and am trying to find out if they could hold it on a Saturday. I'll keep you informed

[Steveo]

I contacted the UNH Coop Extension to see if it was possible to have a Shoreline Protection Act seminar on a weekend instead of a Monday when most non-residents can not make it. They did respond and are willing to hold one in late summer/early fall on a weekend. Is this of interest to people? I don't want them to go to all this trouble and no one show up. Let me know what you think of the idea or suggestions for the best dates and times.

Thanks,

Steve

[mcdude]

I wanted to bring your attention to this upcoming meeting of the New England Chapter of the North American Lake Management Society (NEC NALMS) in June. The meeting is being held in Worcester, MA on June 11-12, 2010.

The program includes a variety of topics related to lake and watershed ecology, biology, and protection. There is something for everyone. There are five hands-on workshops being offered Friday afternoon, and there are a number of talks on invasive aquatic species on Saturday, among other topics.

Specific program elements, including time and location of the meeting is included in the attached brochure

Nec-Conf-Let-Size.pdf
Click above to open brochure or see below

The Massachusetts Congress of Lakes and Pond Associations presents the Annual Meeting of the New England
Chapter of the North American Lake Management Society: Our New England Waters -

Lake Management in Lean Times: Focusing on Practical Solutions and Achievable Results

Saturday, June 12th

8:00 AM

Registration, Exhibits, Continental
Breakfast, Sullivan Hall Foyer & Lounge

9:00 AM

Plenary Session – “A Call to Action”

Eager Auditorium
9:00 AM

Welcome, Eliz. Herron NECNALMS Chair
9:10 AM What’s New with NALMS, Bev Clark,
HES, NALMS President Elect
9:30 AM Loving Lakes, Tom Gordon,-Exec. Dir.
Maine Assoc. of Conservation Districts
10:00 AM Break/Exhibits –Sullivan Hall Lounge

10:30 AM

Break Out Session 1:
A. Invasive Species 1 Sullivan Hall – Classroom

Overview – Major aquatic invasive species of New
England

, Jim Straub, MA DCR

Double whammy: Hydrilla strikes Maine again,

John McPhendran, ME DEP

Dreissena

in Masshachusetts: A look at the
background and response to zebra mussels in
the Bay State

, Tom Flannery, MA CDR

B: Watershed Management 1

Eager Auditorium

Vegetate and infiltrate: Reigning in runoff through
landscaping and simple site design techniques,

Jeff Schloss, UNH

Using infiltration and filtration systems to protect
water quality,

Tom Ballestero UNH Stormwater
Center

Lawn management: Tips for cost-saving, lakefriendly
landscaping and getting people to go
along, plus and easy landscape-related fund
raiser,

Jackson Madnick, MA COLAP

C: Monitoring Tips, Tools and Techniques

Sullivan
Hall - Classroom

Volunteer Monitoring Program Updates and Tooltime:
a roundtable discussion and show and tell,

Linda Green and NE Vol. Mon. Coords

Tool-time (cont.): Stormwater and groundwater
samplers, plant mapping and algae
documentation tools,

Ken Wagner, AECOM
Noon – 1 PM Lunch- Dining Hall Student Center

1:00 PM

Break Out Session 2:
D: Invasive Species 2 Sullivan Hall – Classroom

Invasives Update (TBD)
Rapid response in Maine: Is it going according to
plan?

John McPhendran, ME DEP

Pre-Invasive freshwater fish in New England,

Dave
Halliwell, ME DEP

E: Watershed Management 2

Eager Auditorium

Using porous pavement to minimize runoff and
protect water resources,

Tom Ballestero UNH
Stormwater Center

Low impact development stormwater techniques
for developable parcels in the Nagog /Nashoba
watershed,

Bob Hartzel, GeoSyntec

NH Comprehensive Shoreland Protection Act–
Overview - minimum standards and impact
permitting process

, Jason Aube, NH DES

F: In-lake Techniques

Sullivan Hall – Classroom

Dredging – options, constraints, permits and costs,

Harry Jones and Tom Jenkins, BEC

When watershed management isn’t enough – Algae
control using alum,

Dom Meringolo, ACT

Using herbicides to selectively control Eurasian
watermilfoil while preserving native plants,

Marc Bellaud, ACT
2:30 - 3:00 PM

Break/Exhibits– Sullivan lounge

3:00 PM

Breakout Session 3:
G: Emerging Issues in Lake Management Sullivan
Hall – Classroom

Managing lake drawdowns for downstream
environmental flows,

Joanna Carey, MA DF&G

Comparison of cyanobacteria cell counts and toxin
concentrations in Lake Quannapowitt,
Wakefield, MA,

Douglas Heath, Saugus RWC

H: The Local Connection in Lake Management

Eager Auditorium

Locally grown lake stewards: Protecting your local
lakes and engaging your community,

Andrea
LaMoreaux, NH LAKES Assn

Getting municipalities and lake associations to
recognize lake value,

Jacquie Colburn, NH DES

I: Understanding Water Quality

Sullivan Hall –
Classroom

The importance of precise phosphorus
measurements in lake management.

Bev Clark,
HES, NALMS

Constructing nutrient budgets: Key pieces of the
puzzle and how to assess them.

Sarah
MacDougall, AECOM

Adjourn at 4 PM –

See you next year in RI!

NECNALMS 2010 will be held on June 11

th and 12th at Worcester State College in
Worcester, MA.

The Friday workshops on the reverse side of this brochure provide
hands-on training by experienced professionals. The Saturday program on this page
provides a wealth of information for anyone interested in the management of lakes and
watersheds. Overnight accommodations in modern, spacious dormitory rooms and meals,
including an optional beer and wine tasting, are available on-site, as is free parking.
Sullivan Hall will be the conference hub with workshops, presentations and vendors all
conveniently situated in or near Eager Auditorium Look for more information online at
http//www.uri.edu/ce/ww/nec/ including site directions and maps, complete
abstracts, and workshop outlines, or contact Ken Wagner at 860-429-5323 ext 222 or
ken.wagner@aecom.com for more information.

Friday, June11th Workshops,
Each workshop will be 2 hours long, and will be
repeated, except for the two-part Google workshop.
Please register for 2 workshops. Check-in at
Sullivan Hall starting at 11:30 AM.
Nuisance Algae: Identification and Control

– Ken Wagner (AECOM)

When algae are abundant, they can interfere with multiple
uses of that water. This workshop will illustrate the common
nuisance forms and provide time for participants to look at
examples under microscopes. We will discuss methods of
control of algae - biological, chemical and physical
approaches. Participants do not need prior training in algae
and will receive printed materials to help with information
retention. The focus of this workshop will be on improving
familiarity with the types of algae that can cause problems in
lakes and the methods that can be used to monitor and
control those algae.

Macrophytes: Key Native and Introduced Species
to Know

- Amy Smagula (NH DES) and Leslie Matthews (VT
DEC)

This workshop is intended as an introduction to aquatic plant
ecology and identification, covering an introduction to
aquatic plant zonation, an overview of invasive aquatic
plants of concern in New England, and an overview of
common native aquatic plants in the area. The presenters
will also help distinguish between plants with similar growth
forms and habitats. Information on general plant mapping
techniques, early detection methods for invasive plants, and
other related topics will be covered. Both live and pressed
specimens will be made available, and workshop
participants are encouraged to bring specimens.

Pre-invasive Freshwater Fish in New England: An
Archaeological Approach

- Dave Halliwell (ME DEP)

The freshwater fish assemblage of New England, east of the
Champlain drainage in Vermont, is naturally depauperate,
following Pleistocene glaciations which receded 12,000 to
14,000 years ago. In this workshop, you will gain an
appreciation for 16 indigenous freshwater fish species of
suitable size and distribution to have likely been harvested
by Native Americans prior to European arrival. We will also
identify the 12 fish species which have actually been
identified in Maine pre-Columbian archaeological sites.
Hands-on sorting of actual material from Maine
archaeological sites will be carried out. Fish bone
identification is facilitated through the use of a draft key to
pre-European fish remains in New England.

Zooplankton for Everyone: Bringing zooplankton
taxonomy, ecology and biology to a wider audience

- Jim Haney and Amanda Murby (UNH)

The Center for Freshwater Biology at UNH has created and
updated an image-based online zooplankton key to expand
knowledge of this important, but often underappreciated
member of lake ecosystems. In this workshop, we will
introduce the participants to the goals and content of the
CFB key, discuss the use of zooplankton in monitoring
programs, and provide hands-on experience with
zooplankton identification using provided samples,
microscopes and the CFB key. The key is simple enough for
anyone to use for those with no previous experience, and
contains a wealth of additional information for lake monitors
and scientists alike.

Mapping your Watershed in Google Maps or Google
Earth: A Two-Part Workshop.
- Cary Chadwick & Emily Wilson (UConn), Shane Bradt
(UNH) & Greg Bonynge (URI)

Creating online maps to show your sampling sites,
monitoring data, projects, event locations or other
information used to require help from a GIS wizard and a
web designer, not to mention a large amount of money. Now
you can create simple, online maps for free in Google Maps
and/or Google Earth, whether you are GIS proficient or not.
Participants are invited to attend both or either session
depending on the tool(s) they are interested in learning. The
workshop will consist of brief lectures followed by hands-on
computer exercises and is BYOL (bring your own laptop -
Mac or PC). To participate you will need to have installed a
current web browser or two (Firefox, Chrome, and Safari
work best), setup a Google account at

http://www.google.com/accounts/NewAccount

, and
download Google Earth at http://earth.google.com/.

June 11

th and 12th, 2010 Worcester
State College Worcester, MA

NECNALMS 2010

REGISTRATION FORM

Name:
Affiliation:
Mailing Address:
Phone:
Email:
Registration (includes annual NEC-NALMS
membership dues, breaks and lunch on
Saturday):



Friday workshops only - $30 _____



Saturday sessions only - $45 _____



Friday & Saturday package - $65 _____



Friday dinner - $8 _____



Friday beer & wine tasting - $10 _____
Total Registration fee _____
Friday Workshop Choice(s):
1st session:
2nd session:
Dormitory rooms will be available Friday night
for $25 ($20 additional linen fee or bring your
own sheets/sleeping bag). Check here if you
would like to reserve a room

Sorry - credit cards NOT accepted.

Return form and registration check to payable
to NECNALMS, c/o Carol Hildreth, 135
Washington Street, Holliston, MA 01746

The 2010 Annual Business Meeting of
NECNALMS will be held in Sullivan Hall at
5:30 PM, followed an optional dinner in Dining
Hall at about 6:30 PM. Festivities will continue
with a beer and wine tasting (additional cost)
after dinner.

[mcdude]

From the Concord Monitor

Healthy Communities Project and the Bow Drinking Water Protection Committee have offered up a handy calendar for keeping a natural lawn, without all those junky pesticides. Before you get started, make sure to get your soil tested to identify a baseline measurement for pH and key nutrients. Contact the UNH Cooperative Extension office or a garden supply center for a soil test kit.
The following is a general time frame (subject to change based on weather conditions) for upkeep:
Mid-April: Rake off winter debris from your lawn. When forsythia and daffodils are in bloom, apply corn gluten meal, a natural herbicide (see hort.iastate.edu/gluten for detailed information). Apply about a quarter-inch of water immediately after application, then let it dry for a few days.
May/June: Pull existing weeds as they appear, preferably before they go to seed to prevent newer weeds from germinating.
Memorial Day: The last weekend of May is the best time to over-seed your lawn. The following steps will maximize your efforts and increase your lawn's soil health and structure at the same time: pull any remaining weeds; aerate to open up your lawn's root system; over-seed and patch bare spots; top-dress with compost.
June, July, August: Follow a 1 inch per week watering rule (water in early morning or early evening to minimize evaporation) and be sure to incorporate rainfall. Keep pulling those weeds before they go to seed.
Late August: When the temperatures begin to cool, grass and weeds come out of their semi-dormant state and begin to grow more quickly. If you choose to apply corn gluten, now is the optimal time for your second application.
Labor Day: (Optional) If you have not already aerated and/or over-seeded in late May, now is a good time to do so.
Mid-October: Apply an organic fertilizer. Keep in mind that the most important nutrient to add as this point is potassium.
End-of-season tips: Compost the lawn by mowing it with the fallen leaves on it.
For more environmentally friendly lawn care and gardening tips, go to Greenguidenh.com.

[Lucky1]

Wouldn't the huge growth in the number of boats on our lake also be a large part of the problem? Guess this will not be popular suggestion, but it does seem that there now are SEVERAL BOATS at many lake side homes.

Sometimes swimming or kayaking cannot be done safely in some spots on weekends it has gotten so bad. People raft and dump into the lake and boats leave gas fumes and oil slicks. What do people think that purple and green stuff that shows at the edge of some motors in the water is all about?

We had a neighbor who sold ten years ago but think that he buried a bottomless holding tank. Town inspector had no interest. Holding tank has never needed to be pumped with two families renting every week all summer for a decade? New owner did not even know where it was located?

We have some lawn but it is not fertilized and looks that way. We do not care. It gets cut once in a while and that is it. We do love our wonderful lake. Happy Earth Day!

[tis]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Wouldn't the huge growth in the number of boats on our lake also be a large part of the problem? Guess this will not be popular suggestion, but it does seem that there now are SEVERAL BOATS at many lake side homes.

I don't think the number of boats at a home makes a differnce. They aren't usually used all at the same time.

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by tis

I don't think the number of boats at a home makes a differnce. They aren't usually used all at the same time.

Teenagers can take out a boat while mom and dad take out another etc. Next to us two teens are out on two jet skiis while mom and dad are out with another couple, etc. Another beautiful boat is still at the dock. The home that rents often has two boats out.......one for fishing and one for touring or water skiing etc. However, the main point was that with the development over the past decades, it is BOATS AND LAWNS that are making a difference in the lake. I think that is a simple fact. There are many new homes and many new watercraft on the water.

[ishoot308]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I was recently told from someone at DES that the water quality in Winnipesaukee is much better now than during the 60's and 70's. Many of the camps back then had no regulations on their septic and overflow was constantly just sent directly into the lake.

I remember staying many times at the Chanticleer in the late 60's and all the cabins were simply leeching their septic into the lake!

Yes more can be done to keep it clean, but it's not all bad and in fact water quality has been worse in years past.

Dan

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I was recently told from someone at DES that the water quality in Winnipesaukee is much better now than during the 60's and 70's. Many of the camps back then had no regulations on their septic and overflow was constantly just sent directly into the lake.

I remember staying many times at the Chanticleer in the late 60's and all the cabins were simply leeching their septic into the lake!

Yes more can be done to keep it clean, but it's not all bad and in fact water quality has been worse in years past.

Dan

Is there an online reference available about water quality in the 60's and 70's? It is possible that it was worse, but that isn't common knowledge. That was before my time here, but since the early 80's, it is very evident to me that water quality has gone down in parts of the lake. It is difficult to find fresh water clams in the north east quadrant any more and the bottom is more muck than sand. Graphs I have seen of the phosphorus levels over the past few decades show a marked increase and frightening trends. The septics of 30-40 years ago were much worse, but there were way fewer homes and full time residents on the lake. In addition, water runoff then was a lot less, because the area was much less built up. The runoff contribution to poor water quality is likely more a problem today than septic ever was in the past. There is no reason to back off the efforts to make the lake clean again.

[hilltopper]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

It is difficult to find fresh water clams in the north east quadrant any more and the bottom is more muck than sand.

Correct me if I am wrong, but freshwater clams are filter feeders. The less "stuff" in the water, the less they have to feed on. The absence of freshwater clams usually points to cleaner water, I believe.