wow trail opposed - Page 2

brk-lnt · 06-12-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITD

I think you are grasping at straws with the crime angle. I live in a community with a rail trail, and there has been very little crime associated with the trail. I am on the trail at least once a week and there is no litter, just many people enjoying many different types of recreation.

Your perspective could be correct. I for one would like to see some valid data from the WOW folks outlining the expected on-going maintenance costs and how they plan to cover those costs.

I have seen and used trails that were well maintained, and poorly maintained. In Michigan, we had many state parks, and you had to pay an access fee it was like $2.00/day or $25.00/yr), and those fees went to the maintenance of the parks and trails.

Again, I have walked along the EXISTING portions of the WOW trail, and it's not a very impressive thing. There are already litter and maintenance problems along the trail. I'm not talking about a trail in MA. I'm not talking about a trail in southern NH. I'm talking about the existing trail that some people want to extend further.

I do not expect the trail to be a self-maintaining pristine pathway, some problems will occur, and that is to be expected. But I do expect a project like this to have a long-term net positive impact on the area. It should be inviting and pleasant to use. It should be the sort of thing that when a person comes up to the lakes region, they view it as a well engineered public use space, not a slapped-in sidewalk.

Not that it hasn't been done before, but I think that a putting a public walkway next to an active railway isn't really a great idea. The WOW trail, to me, is coming across as an idea with good intentions but extremely poor planning and implementation. In addition to the crime and litter comments, what is the plan for dealing with the areas around the weirs where it seems like there will be some major costs to route the trail?

Does the entire trail REALLY have to go along the waterway? Can it not be something like the MinuteMan trail in Boston and go past a number of key attractions? It would seem that routing this up Union Ave instead of 106 would have much more net positive impact on local businesses.

DJS-Laconia · 06-12-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Your perspective could be correct. I for one would like to see some valid data from the WOW folks outlining the expected on-going maintenance costs and how they plan to cover those costs.

I have seen and used trails that were well maintained, and poorly maintained. In Michigan, we had many state parks, and you had to pay an access fee it was like $2.00/day or $25.00/yr), and those fees went to the maintenance of the parks and trails.

Again, I have walked along the EXISTING portions of the WOW trail, and it's not a very impressive thing. There are already litter and maintenance problems along the trail. I'm not talking about a trail in MA. I'm not talking about a trail in southern NH. I'm talking about the existing trail that some people want to extend further.

I do not expect the trail to be a self-maintaining pristine pathway, some problems will occur, and that is to be expected. But I do expect a project like this to have a long-term net positive impact on the area. It should be inviting and pleasant to use. It should be the sort of thing that when a person comes up to the lakes region, they view it as a well engineered public use space, not a slapped-in sidewalk.

Not that it hasn't been done before, but I think that a putting a public walkway next to an active railway isn't really a great idea. The WOW trail, to me, is coming across as an idea with good intentions but extremely poor planning and implementation. In addition to the crime and litter comments, what is the plan for dealing with the areas around the weirs where it seems like there will be some major costs to route the trail?

Does the entire trail REALLY have to go along the waterway? Can it not be something like the MinuteMan trail in Boston and go past a number of key attractions? It would seem that routing this up Union Ave instead of 106 would have much more net positive impact on local businesses.

I agree- Re-route it to Union ave and help the Local Buisness owners out.

***Do we really need 63,360 Square feet of asphalt all along the shoreline. All of a sudden its ok to do this? Yet you can't sneeze on a tree within 50 feet of the water.

That is hypocrisy at its worst.

****Do you want this guy hanging around your house.. He is the Bike Path Rapist. He used the bike path in Cheektowaga, NY to prey on his victoms. There is a whole book dedicated to the events that took place there. A small suburban bike path.

If you google bike trail crime you will get thousands of entries. Many of these entries are about rapes and murders that have occurred on bike trails. Some of the entries are about bike trails that are being closed down because of crime.

Bike Trail Rapist >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>VVVVVV

fatnoah · 06-19-2009, 09:26 AM

Has anyone actually biked Union Avenue? I grew up in Laconia (LA as I like to tell people) and used a bike as my main form of transportation all the way through high school.

People can already walk and bike on Union Ave. It's not that exciting (or hasn't been to me at least since Goody-Good closed) and has so much traffic and so many intersections that it would be more an endurance test than a pleasurable ride/walk/whatever.

A major part of the appeal of recreational paths is that they are NOT local roads. Rail-trails have the added benefit of being generally flat, no sharp curves, etc. that help to make the trails available to all ages and many modes of transportation.

Underneath all of the over-the-top hyperbole, DJS does make valid points. The trail should be constructed in such a way so as to respect the rights of lake-front property owners. Look at the bright side, if the trail goes through and properties get trashed, then property values and taxes should go down...right?

fatlazyless · 09-11-2009, 07:53 PM

The first leg of the first phase got started this week with tree removal running from the Laconia Public Library to Messer St. Am not too familiar with this area but believe it runs along a railroad track.

Issues of contention:

- Federal stimulus funding helps to power up the W.O.W. Trail construction.

- The unwanted five foot chain link fence and insurance liability.

A twelve foot wide by nine mile long asphalt bungle.....whoops....I mean paved trail...... through Belmont-Laconia-Weirs-Meredith. Will it really get built.......time will tell?

fatlazyless · 11-23-2009, 08:51 PM

Anyone see the front page article on this in today's, Monday Nov 23 Laconia Daily Sun. South Down Shore has been building up a lawyer's fund to fight the WOW Trail from crossing its waterfront area. And, apparently back in 1983 when South Down Shore was created, the State of NH created a railroad right of way easement for a bicycle trail. And after 25 years, it certainly seems like the WOW Trail will test the existance of the easment in order to build an asphalt paved bicycle trail.

The LaDaSun reports from its' top page article that the SDS-condo board has been piling up special assessments from all its' residents into a 'war chest' to fund a legal offensive against the W,O.W. Trail so's to stop it from crossing their waterfront.

It just seems to me that it could be a difficult and uphill battle for the SDS, but one never knows what will happen when the lawyers get involved. And, if you have the money to burn, then you can always find a lawyer or two or three who will be very pleased to go digging back through the legal history of the land use in a thorough and in-depth investigation. However, what with The W,O.W. being very strongly financed, litigated, and desired by all three of the federal, state, and local governments, the SDS better have lots of money to burn.

Probably, the SDS would be better off hiring engineers, as opposed to lawyers, who could design them a tunnel that would place the W.O.W Trail into the underground where it would be out of their SDS sight.

Heaven forbid the South Down Shore residents should be subjected to having to watch as other Laconians and lakes region visiters go pedal a bicycle along the shoreline of beautifull Paugus Bay, enroute to Weirs Beach and Meredith.

That's the solution, SDS should go dig themselves a tunnel!......

birchhaven · 11-24-2009, 09:04 AM

You may be on to something. Fighting the state is going to cost a lot of money and SDS will probably lose in the end. Why not try and work with the state SDS could spend the money on a nice fence, like a nice new england field stone wall about 3' high and 2' wide and then place a nice rod iron fence on top of it about 2' high so it does not block the view and it looks nice and very NH.

(disclaimer, I have mixed feelings about the trail, I think it would be nice, but it will ultimately cost way to much)

brk-lnt · 11-24-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birchhaven

You may be on to something. Fighting the state is going to cost a lot of money and SDS will probably lose in the end. Why not try and work with the state SDS could spend the money on a nice fence, like a nice new england field stone wall about 3' high and 2' wide and then place a nice rod iron fence on top of it about 2' high so it does not block the view and it looks nice and very NH.

(disclaimer, I have mixed feelings about the trail, I think it would be nice, but it will ultimately cost way to much)

Not sure what FLL is on about now, as he is on my ignore list.

Regarding the trail, it's not a "state" project, it's really more of a private project, so there is no fighting the state.

Also, the WOW folks seem to be rather unwilling to discuss any compromises or alternative plans. It's really kind of disappointing all around.

As far as money is concerned... The WOW folks are raising money to fund the trail, and any legal actions as well. There are a lot of residents in SDS, it wouldn't take much in terms of contributions per family to suck up a lot of resources from the WOW fund.

The best approach for the WOW folks would be to try to find a mutually-agreeable solution.

Woodsy · 11-24-2009, 11:35 AM

I think the SDS folks have a serious uphill battle to block or reroute the WOW trail.... for a few of reasons.

1. If the city easement for recreational path is in fact shown on the plot plan on file and mentioned in the planning and zoning board meeting minutes etc, there will be little SDS can do to invalidate that easement... especially if that easement was part & parcel to getting the project approved! In fact if the easement is found to be valid it may very well HURT the SDS claims. The RR corridor is approx 66'... the city owned recreational path easement may add to that width.... property that SDS currently claims ownership.

2. The WOW trail as currently configured sits within the 66' wide state owned railroad corridor. It does not impinge on SDS property at all. Unfortunately for SDS this is an active rail corridor, so the state has never reliquished any rights to the RR corridor. This will prevent SDS claiming any "squatter" type rights and try to block the trail that way...

3. The use of the rail corridor in the wintertime by snowmobiles & cross country skiers already sets a precedent for public use/crossing in front of SDS.

4. Lets not forget the state can refuse to renew the lease on the SDS waterfront if they really wanted to play hardball!

Judging from whats been published in the papers, it seems SDS best chance of blocking the path for the trail is to complain about POSSIBLE loss of property values, POSSIBLE crime, POSSIBLE trash and POSSIBLE upkeep?? Not really the best legal grounds....

Given the unlikely chance of successfully blocking the WOW trail from crossing in front of SDS and the exorbitant cost to mount such an opposition, I would negotiate to minimize the visual & economic impact on SDS... and instead market the WOW trail as a positive thing for member of the SDS community.

Woodsy

PS: While I am a fan of the WOW trail, I am not a fan of the stoopid rail fence either! I am pretty sure though that fence requirement was dropped when the legislature passed a bill indemnifying the railroads.....

brk-lnt · 11-24-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I think the SDS folks have a serious uphill battle to block or reroute the WOW trail.... for a few of reasons.

FWIW, I don't think the real opposition is to the trail itself, but moreso to the eyesore factor, which CAN be controlled.

Also, the WOW trails seems to be incompletely thought-out, there are other locations where the trail organizers will meet similar human and physical obstacles. Overall this project has the undertones of other "best intentions" projects that never get fully completed.

LongBay · 01-18-2010, 06:28 PM

NO MORE WOW!

I don't see anything WOW about taking a very prestine waterfront area and doing this..

AND THIS to it.
[IMG]ftp://www.laconiadailysun.com/Laconiapdf/2010/1/16L.pdf[/IMG]

These folks have no respect for the watershed providing drinking water for the city of Laconia. By bulldozing their way through the Winipesaukee watershed and wetlands they will turn the other side of Paugus Bay into yet another eye sore. We have enough eye sores in Laconia! They should focus their efforts on making the city look like a nice New England town. Look how Meredith transformed itself. Loconia can do the same with better leadership and vision. They are nothing but liars! They said there would not be any chain linked fences. Well, by the looks of the pictures taken and posted in the Laconia Sun on January 16th., not only do we have chain linked fences but lots of ugly cement retaining walls!

Anyone in the spray paint business may want to consider opening up a store in one of those vacated storefronts in downtown Laconia. There will be plenty of walls for those folks with not enough time on their hands to put their creativity to work.

"All in all it was just a brick in the wall.
All in all it was all just bricks in the wall." Pink Floyd, The Wall

fatlazyless · 01-19-2010, 08:08 AM

It seems like what really powered up the WOW Trail was when it got money-approved by the federal government. The small section that's been under construction since about October runs from the Gale Library to Messer St, a section that is pretty close to Lake Opechee, but does not actually abutt the lake. As the WOW trail construction progresses north, I think it immediately starts to abutt Paugus Bay after crossing Messer St. One of those bright orange construction signs announcing federal stimilus funding is set up near the Gale Library.

With the federal, state and local governments all getting behind the WOW Trail it could be difficult to stop it. Despite all those heavy hitters lined up in support, the New Hampshire Dept of Environmental Services still, I think, has to sign off on any shoreline construction before it can be started. And, the DES is a professional agency that applies their rules equally and evenly to all applicants.

When the construction company was excavating the ground for the WOW Trail between the library and Messer St, it hit on two old steel 500 & 1000-gal tanks of diesel, left over from a 50-year old Laconia DPW yard. That find halted construction until the DES took a look at the situation.

Slowly but shorely wins the race....

LongBay · 01-19-2010, 09:52 AM

I am all for projects with sustainability. And this one has none. When all the walls go up and pavement put down, all those construction folks will be out of a job once again. If these WOW folks want to help, donate your funds to the RT 93 project to add more lanes between NH and Mass so that workers can get to their full time jobs faster and use less gas. Also, vacationers will get up to NH that much faster and spend their money, thus creating jobs. This in another typical project that will cost tax payers and I am tired of the government spending my hard earned money on projects that benefit so little and end up decreasing property values. Its time government stop taking away private property.

Resident 2B · 01-19-2010, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongBay

Its time government stop taking away private property.

I believe the WOW trail will use the railroad bed in the Paugus Bay area. That is clearly not private property, although some SDS owners might think it is.

When I was thinking of buying a place in Long Bay, the fact that there was not clear, long-term access to the water stopped me from risking my money if the situation changed. That was discovered when I hired a local lawyer to review the potential purchase. It looks to me like the situation is about to change.

It also looks like a reasonable change, since the SDS owners will still have access to the water and still have the docks. My biggest concern was that, in time, access would be taken away and that the docks would go as well. SDS does not own the lake front in that area.

I believe the WOW trail along Winnipesaukee's shore is a reasonable usage of government owned land and allows the people that own the land, all of us, to use what we own for our enjoyment.

R2B

jetskier · 01-19-2010, 01:43 PM

I believe that the primary objection to the WOW trail is the fencing. Clearly, putting a chain link fence along the shorefront does not qualify in anyone's book as beautification. IMHO, if not for the need for the fence, then the common use issues could be reconciled. It seems to me, that if the state discontinues the railroad use and converts the trainbed to a trail without a fence, then it could potentially meet everyone's needs/desires.

A thought.

Jetskier

LongBay · 01-19-2010, 03:34 PM

Resident2b, My points are not who owns the lake front, but too much government spend equals more taxes. Currently home owners along the shore are being taxed for views and access to the lake. Take both away and it means decrease in property values and more taxes for everyone else. Just because someone thought it would be a nice idea to add more parks to the infrastructure (which will need to be maintained and kept safe) does not mean it is a good idea. Especially when you are taking someone else's money (i.e. all us taxpayers).

Also, considering the impact on private homeowners, you would think they would get a say what gets built in their back yard? Would you like someone to be able to build a road in your back yard just because they think it would be nice for only a few people to enjoy? Give the government an inch and they will take a yard or in this case, tens of miles of pristine property that could be taxed to help fund our education and existing infrastructure. There are lots of places around Laconia to take walks and ride bikes that are maintained by us tax payers. Why should we be taxed more?

Another point, that land (which was once privately owned) was taken over by the government for railroad transportation. If you kick Hobo railroad out of the picture, you have that many fewer jobs and tourists.

jmen24 · 01-19-2010, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongBay

Also, considering the impact on private homeowners, you would think they would get a say what gets built in their back yard? Would you like someone to be able to build a road in your back yard just because they think it would be nice for only a few people to enjoy? Give the government an inch and they will take a yard or in this case, tens of miles of pristine property that could be taxed to help fund our education and existing infrastructure. There are lots of places around Laconia to take walks and ride bikes that are maintained by us tax payers. Why should we be taxed more?

Another point, that land (which was once privately owned) was taken over by the government for railroad transportation. If you kick Hobo railroad out of the picture, you have that many fewer jobs and tourists.

Longbay, I agree with you 100% on this issue, but I believe if you look through the records that you will see that the railroad bed is an easement. That does in fact grant them the right to do what ever they please with the property regardless of who the surrounding owners are, they typically do not expire either. We looked at a piece of property that had a Utility easements that was over fifty years old. They may not have put powerlines up accross the property but it could have happened and that was enough for me to say no go.

The rail trail that we have on my side of the state was put in place of the defunked railroad bed, they removed the rails and ties (volunteer and fundraising) , cleaned up the hard pack and called it good. It is considerably longer than the WOW and will cost a fraction to maintain over time, no fences, no pavement and no concrete, just flat hard packed trail surface. The state took to much line with the WOW and made it into something it did not need to be, a maintenance headache for years to come.

Resident 2B · 01-19-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetskier

I believe that the primary objection to the WOW trail is the fencing. Clearly, putting a chain link fence along the shorefront does not qualify in anyone's book as beautification. IMHO, if not for the need for the fence, then the common use issues could be reconciled. It seems to me, that if the state discontinues the railroad use and converts the trainbed to a trail without a fence, then it could potentially meet everyone's needs/desires.

A thought.

Jetskier

And a very good thought!

I also agree the fence will be a mess. If the train was to go, the fence would not be needed and more people would be happier.

R2B

onthebay · 01-19-2010, 07:29 PM

I am a homeowner who will be directly affected by the WOW trail. It will run alongside my home and separate my property from my beach and dock on the other side of the tracks. This is land that is owned not leased from the state. I am currently working with the state to have a crossing put in to prevent being cut off when the trail goes in. Yes it will require RR warning and no trespassing signs. This is the state requirement.
Before I purchased the property I was made aware through disclosure that the WOW trail could be an eventuality. I cannot say that I wasn't forewarened. We actually thought that a proposed walking trail could be beneficial as we currently use the RR corridor as a walking trail to the Weirs and down to South Down shores. Having a graded (gravel or crushed stone)
path would be better than having to walk down the tracks where it narrows off.
The tracks are currently shared by joggers, walkers, fishermen, ATV's snowmobiles, snowshoers, cross country skiers, etc. and I have yet to hear of an incident where someone was unaware that the train also shared the corridor and was injured or killed.
I am not worried about additional foot traffic coming through. When we built our house we made sure that we left access through our land where an existing snowmobile trail branched from the tracks to the cove in back. It is not about keeping people out.
I am opposed to the trail as it stands because there is no reason to pave paradise. We had to go through hoops to put in a driveway. We couldn't put stone walkways in certain areas because they would cause runoff, I can't clear out branches in my back yard but they want to put down I don't know how many thousands of square feet of impervious surface (asphalt) that has oil, tar, and other petroleum products on the edge of the bay that supplies Laconia with drinking water. Not to mention an unsightly 5 foot chain link fence. Has anyone ever looked at how bad the fence that is along the WOW trail in Opechee looks?

LongBay · 01-19-2010, 11:41 PM

I hope to a better picture posted showing the retaining walls the WOW trail added. It won't be long before you see the spray painters doing their art projects on them. There are several sections of the proposed WOW trail that will require retaining walls due to the many hills located along Paugus and Meredith Bay. If you want to see what a retaining wall looks like after a few years, check out the Weirs and BTW some of them failed during a rainstorm and guess what, no one has the money to fix them all! So, what do you think the lovely WOW trail will look like when the next monsoon happens?

As OnTheBay mentions, the chain link fence along Opechee is already falling apart, collects trash, and takes away the nature beauty of the shoreline! That's what we have to look forward to in our local neighborhoods when the WOW folks come marching through. As mentioned in previous postings the WOW folks have no consideration or empathy for the local neighborhoods they want to "improve" and how they will negatively impact the lives of the people living in them. Neighborhoods are important and part of the city/town echo system.

Just because the government can take over private property does not mean they have to.

corollaman · 01-23-2010, 10:58 PM

If I lived in SDS, and they put a fence in my backyard, I would rip it down myself! Let them put me in jail for vandalisim. There would be NO WAY a fence would be put in between my yard and the lake. This WOW trail thing is stupid.

fatlazyless · 01-26-2010, 09:09 AM

For a nuts & bolts type of a construction costs report on the step by step building of the WOW Trail, take a peek at the January 26 www.laconiadailysun.com article by Adam Drapcho.

Pittsfield company submits low bid, 419,325 to construct 2nd phase of Winnipesaukee River Trail

"The Winnipesaukee River Trail project was the beneficiary of $429,000 in American Recovery & Reinvestment Act funds, also known as stimulus funds."

09-11-2009, 07:53 PM	#104
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,547 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 297 Thanked 958 Times in 699 Posts	....construction begins! The first leg of the first phase got started this week with tree removal running from the Laconia Public Library to Messer St. Am not too familiar with this area but believe it runs along a railroad track. Issues of contention: - Federal stimulus funding helps to power up the W.O.W. Trail construction. - The unwanted five foot chain link fence and insurance liability. A twelve foot wide by nine mile long asphalt bungle.....whoops....I mean paved trail...... through Belmont-Laconia-Weirs-Meredith. Will it really get built.......time will tell? __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 09-12-2009 at 08:10 AM.

11-23-2009, 08:51 PM	#105
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,547 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 297 Thanked 958 Times in 699 Posts	Anyone see the front page article on this in today's, Monday Nov 23 Laconia Daily Sun. South Down Shore has been building up a lawyer's fund to fight the WOW Trail from crossing its waterfront area. And, apparently back in 1983 when South Down Shore was created, the State of NH created a railroad right of way easement for a bicycle trail. And after 25 years, it certainly seems like the WOW Trail will test the existance of the easment in order to build an asphalt paved bicycle trail. The LaDaSun reports from its' top page article that the SDS-condo board has been piling up special assessments from all its' residents into a 'war chest' to fund a legal offensive against the W,O.W. Trail so's to stop it from crossing their waterfront. It just seems to me that it could be a difficult and uphill battle for the SDS, but one never knows what will happen when the lawyers get involved. And, if you have the money to burn, then you can always find a lawyer or two or three who will be very pleased to go digging back through the legal history of the land use in a thorough and in-depth investigation. However, what with The W,O.W. being very strongly financed, litigated, and desired by all three of the federal, state, and local governments, the SDS better have lots of money to burn. Probably, the SDS would be better off hiring engineers, as opposed to lawyers, who could design them a tunnel that would place the W.O.W Trail into the underground where it would be out of their SDS sight. Heaven forbid the South Down Shore residents should be subjected to having to watch as other Laconians and lakes region visiters go pedal a bicycle along the shoreline of beautifull Paugus Bay, enroute to Weirs Beach and Meredith. That's the solution, SDS should go dig themselves a tunnel!...... __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 11-24-2009 at 07:57 AM.

11-24-2009, 09:04 AM	#106
birchhaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 132 Thanks: 14 Thanked 54 Times in 30 Posts	on to something You may be on to something. Fighting the state is going to cost a lot of money and SDS will probably lose in the end. Why not try and work with the state SDS could spend the money on a nice fence, like a nice new england field stone wall about 3' high and 2' wide and then place a nice rod iron fence on top of it about 2' high so it does not block the view and it looks nice and very NH. (disclaimer, I have mixed feelings about the trail, I think it would be nice, but it will ultimately cost way to much)

11-24-2009, 11:35 AM	#108
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,952 Thanks: 80 Thanked 971 Times in 433 Posts	I think the SDS folks have a serious uphill battle to block or reroute the WOW trail.... for a few of reasons. 1. If the city easement for recreational path is in fact shown on the plot plan on file and mentioned in the planning and zoning board meeting minutes etc, there will be little SDS can do to invalidate that easement... especially if that easement was part & parcel to getting the project approved! In fact if the easement is found to be valid it may very well HURT the SDS claims. The RR corridor is approx 66'... the city owned recreational path easement may add to that width.... property that SDS currently claims ownership. 2. The WOW trail as currently configured sits within the 66' wide state owned railroad corridor. It does not impinge on SDS property at all. Unfortunately for SDS this is an active rail corridor, so the state has never reliquished any rights to the RR corridor. This will prevent SDS claiming any "squatter" type rights and try to block the trail that way... 3. The use of the rail corridor in the wintertime by snowmobiles & cross country skiers already sets a precedent for public use/crossing in front of SDS. 4. Lets not forget the state can refuse to renew the lease on the SDS waterfront if they really wanted to play hardball! Judging from whats been published in the papers, it seems SDS best chance of blocking the path for the trail is to complain about POSSIBLE loss of property values, POSSIBLE crime, POSSIBLE trash and POSSIBLE upkeep?? Not really the best legal grounds.... Given the unlikely chance of successfully blocking the WOW trail from crossing in front of SDS and the exorbitant cost to mount such an opposition, I would negotiate to minimize the visual & economic impact on SDS... and instead market the WOW trail as a positive thing for member of the SDS community. Woodsy PS: While I am a fan of the WOW trail, I am not a fan of the stoopid rail fence either! I am pretty sure though that fence requirement was dropped when the legislature passed a bill indemnifying the railroads..... __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

01-18-2010, 06:28 PM	#110
LongBay Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 151 Thanks: 43 Thanked 61 Times in 35 Posts	No more wow NO MORE WOW! I don't see anything WOW about taking a very prestine waterfront area and doing this.. AND THIS to it. [IMG]ftp://www.laconiadailysun.com/Laconiapdf/2010/1/16L.pdf[/IMG] These folks have no respect for the watershed providing drinking water for the city of Laconia. By bulldozing their way through the Winipesaukee watershed and wetlands they will turn the other side of Paugus Bay into yet another eye sore. We have enough eye sores in Laconia! They should focus their efforts on making the city look like a nice New England town. Look how Meredith transformed itself. Loconia can do the same with better leadership and vision. They are nothing but liars! They said there would not be any chain linked fences. Well, by the looks of the pictures taken and posted in the Laconia Sun on January 16th., not only do we have chain linked fences but lots of ugly cement retaining walls! Anyone in the spray paint business may want to consider opening up a store in one of those vacated storefronts in downtown Laconia. There will be plenty of walls for those folks with not enough time on their hands to put their creativity to work. "All in all it was just a brick in the wall. All in all it was all just bricks in the wall." Pink Floyd, The Wall Last edited by LongBay; 01-18-2010 at 06:58 PM.

06-19-2009, 09:26 AM	#103
fatnoah Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Has anyone actually biked Union Avenue? I grew up in Laconia (LA as I like to tell people) and used a bike as my main form of transportation all the way through high school. People can already walk and bike on Union Ave. It's not that exciting (or hasn't been to me at least since Goody-Good closed) and has so much traffic and so many intersections that it would be more an endurance test than a pleasurable ride/walk/whatever. A major part of the appeal of recreational paths is that they are NOT local roads. Rail-trails have the added benefit of being generally flat, no sharp curves, etc. that help to make the trails available to all ages and many modes of transportation. Underneath all of the over-the-top hyperbole, DJS does make valid points. The trail should be constructed in such a way so as to respect the rights of lake-front property owners. Look at the bright side, if the trail goes through and properties get trashed, then property values and taxes should go down...right?

01-19-2010, 08:08 AM	#111
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,547 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 297 Thanked 958 Times in 699 Posts	It seems like what really powered up the WOW Trail was when it got money-approved by the federal government. The small section that's been under construction since about October runs from the Gale Library to Messer St, a section that is pretty close to Lake Opechee, but does not actually abutt the lake. As the WOW trail construction progresses north, I think it immediately starts to abutt Paugus Bay after crossing Messer St. One of those bright orange construction signs announcing federal stimilus funding is set up near the Gale Library. With the federal, state and local governments all getting behind the WOW Trail it could be difficult to stop it. Despite all those heavy hitters lined up in support, the New Hampshire Dept of Environmental Services still, I think, has to sign off on any shoreline construction before it can be started. And, the DES is a professional agency that applies their rules equally and evenly to all applicants. When the construction company was excavating the ground for the WOW Trail between the library and Messer St, it hit on two old steel 500 & 1000-gal tanks of diesel, left over from a 50-year old Laconia DPW yard. That find halted construction until the DES took a look at the situation. Slowly but shorely wins the race.... __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

01-19-2010, 09:52 AM	#112
LongBay Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 151 Thanks: 43 Thanked 61 Times in 35 Posts	Money can be better spent elsewhere I am all for projects with sustainability. And this one has none. When all the walls go up and pavement put down, all those construction folks will be out of a job once again. If these WOW folks want to help, donate your funds to the RT 93 project to add more lanes between NH and Mass so that workers can get to their full time jobs faster and use less gas. Also, vacationers will get up to NH that much faster and spend their money, thus creating jobs. This in another typical project that will cost tax payers and I am tired of the government spending my hard earned money on projects that benefit so little and end up decreasing property values. Its time government stop taking away private property.

01-19-2010, 01:43 PM	#114
jetskier Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Reading, MA and South Down Shores Posts: 850 Thanks: 57 Thanked 183 Times in 114 Posts	A thought I believe that the primary objection to the WOW trail is the fencing. Clearly, putting a chain link fence along the shorefront does not qualify in anyone's book as beautification. IMHO, if not for the need for the fence, then the common use issues could be reconciled. It seems to me, that if the state discontinues the railroad use and converts the trainbed to a trail without a fence, then it could potentially meet everyone's needs/desires. A thought. Jetskier

01-19-2010, 03:34 PM	#115
LongBay Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 151 Thanks: 43 Thanked 61 Times in 35 Posts	Resident2b, My points are not who owns the lake front, but too much government spend equals more taxes. Currently home owners along the shore are being taxed for views and access to the lake. Take both away and it means decrease in property values and more taxes for everyone else. Just because someone thought it would be a nice idea to add more parks to the infrastructure (which will need to be maintained and kept safe) does not mean it is a good idea. Especially when you are taking someone else's money (i.e. all us taxpayers). Also, considering the impact on private homeowners, you would think they would get a say what gets built in their back yard? Would you like someone to be able to build a road in your back yard just because they think it would be nice for only a few people to enjoy? Give the government an inch and they will take a yard or in this case, tens of miles of pristine property that could be taxed to help fund our education and existing infrastructure. There are lots of places around Laconia to take walks and ride bikes that are maintained by us tax payers. Why should we be taxed more? Another point, that land (which was once privately owned) was taken over by the government for railroad transportation. If you kick Hobo railroad out of the picture, you have that many fewer jobs and tourists.

01-19-2010, 07:29 PM	#118
onthebay Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	WOW Trail Opposed with Fence I am a homeowner who will be directly affected by the WOW trail. It will run alongside my home and separate my property from my beach and dock on the other side of the tracks. This is land that is owned not leased from the state. I am currently working with the state to have a crossing put in to prevent being cut off when the trail goes in. Yes it will require RR warning and no trespassing signs. This is the state requirement. Before I purchased the property I was made aware through disclosure that the WOW trail could be an eventuality. I cannot say that I wasn't forewarened. We actually thought that a proposed walking trail could be beneficial as we currently use the RR corridor as a walking trail to the Weirs and down to South Down shores. Having a graded (gravel or crushed stone) path would be better than having to walk down the tracks where it narrows off. The tracks are currently shared by joggers, walkers, fishermen, ATV's snowmobiles, snowshoers, cross country skiers, etc. and I have yet to hear of an incident where someone was unaware that the train also shared the corridor and was injured or killed. I am not worried about additional foot traffic coming through. When we built our house we made sure that we left access through our land where an existing snowmobile trail branched from the tracks to the cove in back. It is not about keeping people out. I am opposed to the trail as it stands because there is no reason to pave paradise. We had to go through hoops to put in a driveway. We couldn't put stone walkways in certain areas because they would cause runoff, I can't clear out branches in my back yard but they want to put down I don't know how many thousands of square feet of impervious surface (asphalt) that has oil, tar, and other petroleum products on the edge of the bay that supplies Laconia with drinking water. Not to mention an unsightly 5 foot chain link fence. Has anyone ever looked at how bad the fence that is along the WOW trail in Opechee looks?

01-19-2010, 11:41 PM	#119
LongBay Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 151 Thanks: 43 Thanked 61 Times in 35 Posts	I hope to a better picture posted showing the retaining walls the WOW trail added. It won't be long before you see the spray painters doing their art projects on them. There are several sections of the proposed WOW trail that will require retaining walls due to the many hills located along Paugus and Meredith Bay. If you want to see what a retaining wall looks like after a few years, check out the Weirs and BTW some of them failed during a rainstorm and guess what, no one has the money to fix them all! So, what do you think the lovely WOW trail will look like when the next monsoon happens? As OnTheBay mentions, the chain link fence along Opechee is already falling apart, collects trash, and takes away the nature beauty of the shoreline! That's what we have to look forward to in our local neighborhoods when the WOW folks come marching through. As mentioned in previous postings the WOW folks have no consideration or empathy for the local neighborhoods they want to "improve" and how they will negatively impact the lives of the people living in them. Neighborhoods are important and part of the city/town echo system. Just because the government can take over private property does not mean they have to.

01-23-2010, 10:58 PM	#120
corollaman Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 181 Thanks: 8 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	If I lived in SDS, and they put a fence in my backyard, I would rip it down myself! Let them put me in jail for vandalisim. There would be NO WAY a fence would be put in between my yard and the lake. This WOW trail thing is stupid.

01-26-2010, 09:09 AM	#121
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,547 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 297 Thanked 958 Times in 699 Posts	low bid of $419,325 For a nuts & bolts type of a construction costs report on the step by step building of the WOW Trail, take a peek at the January 26 www.laconiadailysun.com article by Adam Drapcho. Pittsfield company submits low bid, 419,325 to construct 2nd phase of Winnipesaukee River Trail "The Winnipesaukee River Trail project was the beneficiary of $429,000 in American Recovery & Reinvestment Act funds, also known as stimulus funds." __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!