|
Home | Forums | Gallery | Webcams | Blogs | YouTube Channel | Classifieds | Calendar | Register | FAQ | Donate | Members List | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
12-06-2019, 11:52 AM | #101 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
|
Quote:
“There is no known precedent in Tuftonboro or even on the lake itself for a subdivision of an undeveloped and ecologically sensitive island,” the suit reads. “The Tuftonboro Master Plan specifically requires the planning board to balance the needs of the applicant with the needs of the community as a whole. The planning board paid lip service to this balancing but then did not engage in any meaningful analysis of whether it was appropriate to permit a 10-lot subdivision on Farm Island.” The suit notes the camp paid for an archaeological survey, which reported the site is a potentially invaluable window into the past and a source for pre-contact Native American and post-contact European American archaeological resources. Johnson said the planning board acted unreasonably and unlawfully in asking the court to send the case back to the planning board for a full and proper consideration of the applicant’s plan. |
|
12-06-2019, 01:07 PM | #102 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,412
Thanks: 216
Thanked 782 Times in 464 Posts
|
After going through Shoreland permitting last year on an island lot, the state wanted me to do an archaeological survey on our parcel, claiming that there COULD be artifacts present as some had been found elsewhere on different islands. When I pushed back on it, I actually wasn't required to, they made it sound like it was a requirement but in all reality it was a suggestion. Unless they found arrowheads or indian pottery there, its probably a stretch claiming its a window into the past...
I haven't been following the Farm Island saga too closely, but something seems fishy. It has been under contract for ages. Did the camp not get a chance to buy this in the first place, or didn't want to spend the money? Or was the deal done before it even hit the market? |
12-06-2019, 01:25 PM | #103 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
|
Ironic that the YMCA who had a chance to purchase this property but had no money can secure legal council and sue the town.
Frankly it is the town's prerogative to approve or disapprove whatever they see fit in whatever manner they see fit so long as it meets the stated town requirements. That is their job. They cannot find favor in one party or another because one more belligerent or outnumbers the other. They have done nothing illegal or outside the typical process. The entire argument being made is irrelevant and stupid. Hopefully the court puts and end to this nonsense as it is nothing but a waste of time. |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MAXUM For This Useful Post: | ||
chasedawg (12-06-2019), Randy Owen (12-10-2019) |
12-06-2019, 01:34 PM | #104 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Whortleberry Island
Posts: 117
Thanks: 16
Thanked 44 Times in 27 Posts
|
Quote:
Doesn't sound like a strong argument for a suit. |
|
12-06-2019, 01:40 PM | #105 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 553
Thanks: 526
Thanked 314 Times in 155 Posts
|
The only people that will benefit from this are the attorneys.
|
Sponsored Links |
|
12-06-2019, 06:24 PM | #106 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 2,949
Thanks: 667
Thanked 2,177 Times in 914 Posts
|
|
12-06-2019, 07:06 PM | #107 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melvin village
Posts: 522
Thanks: 512
Thanked 314 Times in 148 Posts
|
Farm Island
That is so true. And do you know who will be paying for all of attorney fees the public tax payers of Tuftonboro? Of course they will be. Our tax increase has gone up this assessment by 51%. So hear again this lawsuit will increase all tax payers in Tuftonboro. What does Camp Belknap pay in taxes....? NOTHING!
|
12-06-2019, 07:32 PM | #108 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 67
Thanks: 9
Thanked 89 Times in 24 Posts
|
Great Historical Information
Hey thanks for sharing this information.
I learned something, of interest to me, that i would have otherwise not known of and would likely not have voiced my opinion. we would do fuel runs every week or more usually every weekend to pier 19. I Like that part of the lake. I would love to walk the island before it gets destroyed mike |
The Following User Says Thank You to Sandyisl For This Useful Post: | ||
WinnisquamZ (12-06-2019) |
12-06-2019, 08:35 PM | #109 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melvin village
Posts: 522
Thanks: 512
Thanked 314 Times in 148 Posts
|
walking the isalnd
Quote:
|
|
12-06-2019, 10:50 PM | #110 | |
Senior Member
|
Quote:
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post: | ||
FlyingScot (12-08-2019) |
12-07-2019, 12:17 PM | #111 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,231
Thanks: 123
Thanked 450 Times in 270 Posts
|
I still wonder where those who buy property on the island will keep their boats when not at the island. Good luck finding slips.
Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
12-07-2019, 12:59 PM | #112 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Jackson Pond, New Hampton
Posts: 220
Thanks: 39
Thanked 132 Times in 72 Posts
|
So many ills in our US society could be quickly cured if the legal system was changed by requiring the plaintiff to have to pay the legal costs of the defendant should they lose their case ...but this is a pipe dream because there would be need for half as many lawyers and residents of Washington DC would never vote for such a sensible but self crippling move.
Last edited by NH.Solar; 12-13-2019 at 08:54 AM. |
12-07-2019, 01:54 PM | #113 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 1,073
Thanks: 443
Thanked 1,017 Times in 423 Posts
|
Quote:
Personally, I would like to see caps on fee awards. |
|
12-07-2019, 02:36 PM | #114 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,567
Thanks: 742
Thanked 1,426 Times in 988 Posts
|
Some people sue just because they hope for a settlement which often happens to save the expense of going to court.
|
12-08-2019, 04:06 PM | #115 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 1,211
Thanked 976 Times in 603 Posts
|
Quote:
I'm sure this would reduce frivolous lawsuits, but it would also reduce appropriate lawsuits--it would make it impossible for an individual or small corporation to ever sue a large corporation. The large corporation would simply run up a few million dollars in expenses (chump change for them, but big money for the plaintiff), then tell the small plaintiff they could settle for nothing or take their chances in court. |
|
12-09-2019, 07:47 AM | #116 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,415
Thanks: 734
Thanked 782 Times in 409 Posts
|
Got to wonder who is behind this lawsuit and paying the lawyers. Certainly doesn't make sense for the camp to be footing the bill.
|
12-09-2019, 09:17 AM | #117 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 152
Thanks: 17
Thanked 66 Times in 42 Posts
|
Pay
You don't suppose that Belknap might have some lawyers as alumni who know the meaning of "pro bono".
Last edited by chaseisland; 12-09-2019 at 02:59 PM. |
12-09-2019, 10:54 AM | #118 |
Senior Member
|
... help save Farm Island for YMCA Camp Belknap
For those unfamiliar with Farm Island: It is a 20 1/2-acre Lake Winnipesaukee island in Tuftonboro, NH with heavily treed, flat land with the mostly pine trees growing untouched since about 1904. 7 1/2-acres are already owned by nearby https://campbelknap.org, and the remaining 12-acres is proposed to get divided by an owner/developer into ten single, waterfront house lots, each with a house, dock, septic system and electric power.
Farm Island currently has one 100-plus year old cottage in its center with an outhouse and no electricity anywhere on the island. YMCA Camp Belknap - Giving Overview .... www.campbelknap.org/giving/ Support Belknap - Do your share You can donate online. Once Farm island gets developed, it will be built up with homes, docks, septic systems, accessory out buildings and will never again be an undeveloped, wooded island
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! |
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post: | ||
ApS (12-09-2019), chaseisland (12-09-2019), FlyingScot (12-09-2019), Grant (12-10-2019), pondguy (12-09-2019) |
12-09-2019, 02:31 PM | #119 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 1,211
Thanked 976 Times in 603 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to FlyingScot For This Useful Post: | ||
ApS (12-09-2019), chaseisland (12-09-2019), Descant (12-10-2019), Grant (12-10-2019), pondguy (12-09-2019), thinkxingu (12-09-2019) |
01-03-2020, 05:51 PM | #120 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Farm Island
Posts: 80
Thanks: 42
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
|
Protect residential land as residential land
Hello Neighbor,
I am writing to share my concerns of the expansion of Camp Belknap. Please be advised that Camp Belknap has requested special exception for a commercial use on Farm Island. The camp has been illegally using Farm Island and only with ZBA approval can a commercial use of this type be continued. The meeting is January 8, 2020. It is time to protect your investment and stop the expansion of Camp Belknap. Recently the NH Fish and Game walked Farm Island to inspect the property. Illegal tent platforms were discovered. An area noted as privacy rock that wreaked of urine. Also noted was one of the best loon nesting sites in northern part of Winnipesaukee was exploited and converted into a landing area used in conjunction for this presently illegal commercial use. The Camp Belknap requests states that they use a “leave no trace” experience and that counselors and campers handle human waste. This is not the case and a blatant lie. The smell of urine was intense many weeks after the camp had stopped using Farm Island. Each time Camp Belknap increases its presence, your property value goes down. Each time they purchase a tax earning property and convert it to a non tax earning status, your tax burden increases. Camp Belknap pays no property taxes on any land it owns and acquires. Farm Island is only an example of the many violations. There are more mainland violations where they exploited residential zoning laws. These illegal buildings and structures too are part of the expansion. Shore-land protection laws on farm and mainland are also ignored and violated. I ask you to please voice your concern to protect residential land as residential land. Please see the attached video. This what we have to deal with and they want to expand and exploit us and the lake even further. https://youtu.be/EAqexY8nC_Q |
01-03-2020, 06:37 PM | #121 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Parrish, Florida
Posts: 561
Thanks: 258
Thanked 198 Times in 143 Posts
|
It’s a summer camp and it’s been there forever. What’s the problem?
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Susie Cougar For This Useful Post: | ||
pondguy (01-03-2020) |
01-03-2020, 06:52 PM | #122 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Farm Island
Posts: 80
Thanks: 42
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
|
|
01-03-2020, 07:23 PM | #123 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Parrish, Florida
Posts: 561
Thanks: 258
Thanked 198 Times in 143 Posts
|
But you bought the property knowing there was a camp there.
Way back in the 1950s, my father bought our first camp in Toltec on Moultonborough Neck. It was next to a small boys camp and we always knew that it could be expanded. That small boys camp is now Acadia campground. |
01-03-2020, 07:32 PM | #124 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,090
Thanks: 1,157
Thanked 2,011 Times in 1,239 Posts
|
Wait, aren't you the developer trying to build a bunch of houses on the island?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
01-03-2020, 07:39 PM | #125 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Parrish, Florida
Posts: 561
Thanks: 258
Thanked 198 Times in 143 Posts
|
Yeah, something sure doesn’t sound right!
|
01-03-2020, 08:06 PM | #126 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tuftonboro
Posts: 1,205
Thanks: 184
Thanked 310 Times in 227 Posts
|
I think your post shows your airing dirty laundry on the forum. Hardly believe you could smell urine a month or two after the camp closes. Your posts are always negative against the camp and you sight destruction of loon nesting areas which is exaggerated. The loons have always frequented the side of the island you are trying to develop. How many’s loons do you think will frequent the island when you stick 10 houses there? The camp use of that island is not daily in any event.
|
01-03-2020, 08:42 PM | #127 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 88
Thanks: 7
Thanked 34 Times in 17 Posts
|
He has done this before...throwing everything against the wall and see what sticks.
|
01-03-2020, 08:47 PM | #128 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 2,949
Thanks: 667
Thanked 2,177 Times in 914 Posts
|
Quote:
Have a bit of an agenda? |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to TiltonBB For This Useful Post: | ||
Top-Water (07-25-2020) |
01-03-2020, 08:52 PM | #129 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Parrish, Florida
Posts: 561
Thanks: 258
Thanked 198 Times in 143 Posts
|
What is he trying to make happen? Does he want to close the entire camp down because it’s a nuisance for him?
|
01-03-2020, 09:07 PM | #130 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 6,085
Thanks: 2,340
Thanked 5,107 Times in 1,985 Posts
|
Everyone, please see post #72 to see what and who you are dealing with here...
__________________
It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!! |
01-03-2020, 09:25 PM | #131 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 4,190
Thanks: 1,275
Thanked 1,568 Times in 1,018 Posts
|
Until it is posted, Farm Island is open land under NH statutes. I would encourage everybody who has access to go pee on the non-Belknap side of the island. Perhaps on a coordinated date in May? Would that side of the island make a nice rafting area?
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Descant For This Useful Post: | ||
01-03-2020, 09:46 PM | #132 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Tuftonborough & Franklin MA
Posts: 265
Thanks: 99
Thanked 143 Times in 64 Posts
|
Quote:
For reference, this was the first post on the subject by Mr. Owen back in September.
__________________
" Any day with a boat ride in it is a good day" |
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ursa minor For This Useful Post: | ||
Susie Cougar (01-03-2020), Top-Water (01-03-2020) |
01-03-2020, 11:03 PM | #133 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Ice in = CT / Ice out = Winnipesaukee
Posts: 459
Thanks: 123
Thanked 279 Times in 147 Posts
|
Snake oil salesman?
If the eventual fate of Farm Island is ten residential lots, then hopefully it isn't Randy Owen that develops them. Based on his posts and 130+ others here, he doesn't seem to be the sharpest tack in the box and I'm sensing he isn't one to be trusted. I'm thinking future headaches are in store for those that must deal with him - including eventual homeowners that discover he sold them a bill-of-goods.
He should be trying to partner with the camp instead of vilifying them. He should be asking this forum for suggestions rather than pushing his own agenda. Most of all, he should be showing empathy for the opinions of others. Anything else comes across as uncaring, vengeful and opportunistic. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Winilyme For This Useful Post: | ||
SAB1 (01-04-2020) |
01-04-2020, 12:09 AM | #134 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 1,211
Thanked 976 Times in 603 Posts
|
I watched Mr Owens's video, and I have a new level of understanding. Dozens of children laughing, paddling, sailing. Oh the horror of it all!
|
01-04-2020, 06:26 AM | #135 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,090
Thanks: 1,157
Thanked 2,011 Times in 1,239 Posts
|
In October, the subdivision was approved. Since, the YMCA/Camp Belknap has opened a lawsuit. Is Owens' post a reflection of that?
I mean, given the Mr. Owen's diplomatic posts and stellar business history, it appears he's the perfect person to be spearheading this development at the expense of a youth, i.e. freeloaders, camp. Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to thinkxingu For This Useful Post: | ||
ishoot308 (01-04-2020), Sue Doe-Nym (01-04-2020) |
01-04-2020, 08:06 AM | #136 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,231
Thanks: 123
Thanked 450 Times in 270 Posts
|
Sounds like someone who would like to force the camp off of its portion of the island so he can acquire it to preserve it by building more homes on that portion. Like a snake, he should just crawl back in his hole.
Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
The Following User Says Thank You to The Real BigGuy For This Useful Post: | ||
Hillcountry (01-04-2020) |
01-04-2020, 10:48 AM | #137 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 88
Thanks: 7
Thanked 34 Times in 17 Posts
|
This a tactic to turn the public against the camp. Slander them as they have no way to rebuttal on this forum and the Facebook page he is using as well.
|
01-04-2020, 11:18 AM | #138 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Farm Island
Posts: 80
Thanks: 42
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
|
thank you all for your input. The mission is only to follow local and state law. Farming is allowed. Commercial use is not.
For financial benefits the camp entered into a conservation easement. This easement specifically stated that the cannot build a structure like this. It also says the won't bring power boats to the property. They do bring power boats to their portion Farm Island violating there own easement. They do not properly dispose of human waste and say they do. I only want the laws followed. Please understand. The records should be understood. The Town has approved the subdivision, but camp Belknap has sued the town and appealed the towns decision. I am buying Farm Island without the subdivision finalized but with the ability to restore the six bedroom cottage (and i will preserve the 1906 status). In the future a structure will be built closer to the water as the 1906 structure is 600 feet from the water. I will be tapping trees for maple syrup and possibly growing Christmas trees. I have three children. They and their friends will enjoy Farm Island no matter what Camp Belknap tries next. I may sell one lot to only offset the exorbitant costs triggered by Seth Kassels. Other than that the rest is up to my children. Thank you all for your input and information. |
01-04-2020, 11:30 AM | #139 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 852
Thanks: 267
Thanked 273 Times in 166 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TheTimeTraveler For This Useful Post: | ||
Randy Owen (01-04-2020), Sue Doe-Nym (01-04-2020) |
01-04-2020, 12:29 PM | #140 |
Senior Member
|
....... Farm Island; Tuesday, July 23, 2024
....... and, here's the crystal ball look ahead in the future to Farm Island on Lake Winnipesaukee in the beautiful small NH town of Tuftonboro.
On Tuesday, July 23, 2024, Farm Island's entire 20.5 acres are looking very much the same, all totally treed in with old, tall pine trees growing across the entire island as it does today in January, 2020. That one hundred year old, 2-bedroom cottage has been removed and a 15'x40' open-on-one-side, lean-to, camping structure similar to a garage or utilty shed has been built in the same spot along with an appropriate toilet in a separate outer shed. Five small tent platforms are in place, spread around the island at choice spots. And, that's it ..... that's what's what with Farm Island in 2024 ... a central camp-out lean-to with a camp fire out front ..... some tent platforms .... a toilet ..... a hand operated, pitcher pump ..... and the all-natural Farm Island ..... and this is all there is ..... in 2024! You have taken a peek here into Farm Island's future ..... and that's the way it's gonna be. And, oh yeah, the entire island belongs to YMCA Camp Belknap which uses it for canoes, kayaks, camping, and sailing. ....
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! |
01-04-2020, 12:34 PM | #141 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 213
Thanks: 196
Thanked 87 Times in 57 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Wifi-1 For This Useful Post: | ||
Randy Owen (01-04-2020) |
01-04-2020, 02:44 PM | #142 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Farm Island
Posts: 80
Thanks: 42
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
|
how it was 1906. They didn't get in trouble for cutting trees
how it was 1906. I have many more photos to help with the restoration |
01-04-2020, 02:54 PM | #143 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Farm Island
Posts: 80
Thanks: 42
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
|
how is was was with no trees 1906
how is was was with no trees 1906 |
01-04-2020, 03:30 PM | #144 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,567
Thanks: 742
Thanked 1,426 Times in 988 Posts
|
Wow, those are amazing pictures! NH did not have many trees in those days.
|
01-04-2020, 04:08 PM | #145 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 852
Thanks: 267
Thanked 273 Times in 166 Posts
|
Quote:
Today, Vermont is 95% trees and 5% cleared. This may have been true in many of the New England States. In any event, that 1906 photograph is very interesting! |
|
01-04-2020, 04:36 PM | #146 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Parrish, Florida
Posts: 561
Thanks: 258
Thanked 198 Times in 143 Posts
|
|
01-04-2020, 06:11 PM | #147 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Farm Island
Posts: 80
Thanks: 42
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
|
Quote:
legal shenanigans. |
|
01-04-2020, 06:35 PM | #148 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Farm Island
Posts: 80
Thanks: 42
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
|
as it was circa 1906
Quote:
the house in the photos was built as it is in 1906. unlike many island homes that were built and added onto a dozen times this six bedroom cottage was designed by an architect and built by a professional home builder. this is what has peaked our mission to save the house. next to the house you will see a smaller building. this building is were they kept the ice packed in saw dust. the original ice chest remains in the cottage. the Tuftonboro Historical Society has express extensive interest in Farm Island, the house and my mission to save it. a Farm Island volume will be added to the Historical Society |
|
01-04-2020, 06:40 PM | #149 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,567
Thanks: 742
Thanked 1,426 Times in 988 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
01-04-2020, 06:42 PM | #150 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,415
Thanks: 734
Thanked 782 Times in 409 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
01-04-2020, 06:49 PM | #151 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
|
Check this video out
|
01-04-2020, 07:16 PM | #152 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,415
Thanks: 734
Thanked 782 Times in 409 Posts
|
Personal agenda driven?
Quote:
What ordinances or zoning regulations are being broken by the camp? |
|
01-04-2020, 07:45 PM | #153 |
Senior Member
|
Looking at the waterfront/lake footage, what you see is the campers from YMCA Camp Belknap paddling along in their individual, small-10' length, red solo kayaks propelled by two bladed kayak paddles, with maybe 10 sailboats moving along in the background.
What's not present is even a single motor boat, and comparing a motor boat moving along at 20-45-mph to a group of YMCA Camp Belknap kayak paddlers is like comparing a busy, noisy interstate highway to a quiet hiking path. Just close your eyes and you can easily imagine the difference. With no motorboats present, the kayaks quietly paddle along at maybe 4-mph with just the sound of paddled water and camper's voices as opposed to a single loud, noisy boat engine. Is a wonderful camp waterfront sight to see, campers paddling and sailing along, enjoying the lake with no nitwit, loser motor boater crapp'n up the local waters with his go fast-be loud motor boat.
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! |
01-04-2020, 07:48 PM | #154 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 1,211
Thanked 976 Times in 603 Posts
|
Quote:
BTW, you might be able to donate or sell the development rights to a group such as Lakes Region Conservation Trust. In turn, they might help you enforce the environmental rules you described earlier. |
|
01-04-2020, 09:01 PM | #155 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 852
Thanks: 267
Thanked 273 Times in 166 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
01-05-2020, 08:01 AM | #156 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tuftonboro
Posts: 1,205
Thanks: 184
Thanked 310 Times in 227 Posts
|
In today’s world it’s not surprising someone made that video. Everyone has a complaint to air in this world now. But really, we’re going to whine about kids kayaking, playing in the woods, clogging the lake with sailboats or the inconvenience every other Saturday when cars line Chase Point road ( in a neat orderly fashion i’ll Add) to pick up kids and new campers arrive. Would you rather these kids sat at home playing video games all day, hung out at the town park and smoked weed or broke into homes to rip you off and sell your stuff to feed drug habits... geeze.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to SAB1 For This Useful Post: | ||
pondguy (01-05-2020) |
01-05-2020, 08:38 AM | #157 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,231
Thanks: 123
Thanked 450 Times in 270 Posts
|
I hope no one is buying this “I only want to historically preserve the island” shtick. My dad once told me, “A leopard can’t change its spots.” Unfortunately, Mr O can’t change what he is either.
Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
The Following User Says Thank You to The Real BigGuy For This Useful Post: | ||
ishoot308 (01-05-2020) |
01-05-2020, 08:57 AM | #158 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,090
Thanks: 1,157
Thanked 2,011 Times in 1,239 Posts
|
Quote:
Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
|
01-05-2020, 10:01 AM | #159 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 317
Thanks: 2
Thanked 120 Times in 80 Posts
|
For what its worth...I have been following this thread and have no affiliation with the camp or Mr Owen so this is pure observation....
1.) I have no doubts that Mr Owen has a checkered past with individuals on this board OR even with commercial interests around the lake. I am not so naive as to assume that developers have anything other than their own financial interests in mind. 2.) I have done some rudimentary research including reviewing the Camp Belknap website and I see nothing indicating that the camp has a legal or other claim to Farm Island. From my vantage..they appear to be squatting there. 3.) My boys enjoyed years at summer camps and I 100% support what these camps do for our boys...HOWEVER...just because of the opportunities these camps give to boys does not give them the right to squat on any land (imagine these boys playing softball in your front yard and your neighbors saying "you're a jerk for not letting them have good clean fun"). 4.) these camps are about money also (or they wouldn't be in business) so lets not associate them with charity. 5.) this should be a legal question and not about how an unpopular person here benefits. The town should be deciding if the camp has a legal right to be there and if not...they should be held accountable to return the land to its pristine state and not use the property in the future. If they are legally using the property then Mr Owen should relax and watch the boys enjoying the resource. 6.) it is irrelevant if Mr Owen wants the land for his family or to subdivide as long as he has the legal right to subdivide. All the final decisions should be made by the town and zoning board and perhaps the court systems. I guess my point is "boys should be allowed to have a good time" is not reason to allow for trespass or for any organization to be allowed to squat on private property. Them doing this previously is not license for them to continue.....all IMHO of course. I have the advantage in this situation of not knowing Mr Owen or having any interest in property on that part of the lake so this is just unbiased observation. I will go back to minding my own business. |
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MikeF-NH For This Useful Post: | ||
01-05-2020, 10:03 AM | #160 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,415
Thanks: 734
Thanked 782 Times in 409 Posts
|
Let kids be kids!
Quote:
|
|
01-05-2020, 10:26 AM | #161 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,090
Thanks: 1,157
Thanked 2,011 Times in 1,239 Posts
|
Quote:
Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
|
01-05-2020, 12:07 PM | #162 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 1,211
Thanked 976 Times in 603 Posts
|
Quote:
We regularly debate ethical, right vs wrong issues as well as legal points on this forum. The courts will resolve the legal issues. Until then, it's pretty tough to sympathize with Mr Owens at the expense of the kids. |
|
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to FlyingScot For This Useful Post: | ||
01-05-2020, 02:01 PM | #163 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
|
Not for nothing but it's a bit hard to sympathize with the YMCA when they are filing a lawsuit with the state over their "perceived" opinion that the town planning board did not come to a conclusion to their liking either. Although not a lawyer from a pure common sense perspective looking at their argument I don't see a change in outcome far the proposed subdivision of the island. It would be interesting to know exactly what the YMCA is trying to really achieve here as it is clear to me their intent is to use every measure available to block what they don't want when they had fair opportunity to purchase this property. Same can be said of the neighbors and conservation groups that are now complaining about it.
Far as the complaints about the noise generated from camp activities and the kids out there on the lake having a good time, it's just plain in poor taste. For many of these kids this is a chance of a lifetime to have an experience to be at the lake. Shame on anyone who finds this in anyway offensive or better put to "excessive". Finally IF there is any violations the camp has committed, they should be held to the same standard as any other property owner. However I get the feeling most if not all of this is grossly exaggerated for the purposes of trying to creating a poor public perception of the camp. There are plenty of minor infractions that 99% of property owners could probably be sited for and I have certainly see a fair number of "liberties" taken that at best are pushing the boundaries of what is "legal" by the strictest adherence to the letter of the law. I'm certainly not going to make a public spectacle because my neighbor moved a rock without proper permits in place. I find the entire situation sad as it leaves in impression of two immature children fighting and calling one another names. Frankly both parties should knock it off and find a way to be good neighbors because in the end like it or not they are neighbors. |
01-05-2020, 02:04 PM | #164 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tuftonboro
Posts: 1,205
Thanks: 184
Thanked 310 Times in 227 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
01-05-2020, 06:02 PM | #165 | |
Deceased Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 702
Thanks: 360
Thanked 179 Times in 141 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
01-05-2020, 06:05 PM | #166 | |
Deceased Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 702
Thanks: 360
Thanked 179 Times in 141 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to JEEPONLY For This Useful Post: | ||
ApS (01-05-2020) |
01-05-2020, 07:22 PM | #167 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 20
Thanks: 29
Thanked 32 Times in 10 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
01-05-2020, 08:17 PM | #168 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 4,190
Thanks: 1,275
Thanked 1,568 Times in 1,018 Posts
|
Not a structure
The zoning ordinances in most towns set a square foot limit on what is a structure. Less than that number does not require a permit and does not have to meet setbacks. Presumably, this "sleeping platform" is not a structure.
|
01-05-2020, 08:28 PM | #169 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tuftonboro
Posts: 1,205
Thanks: 184
Thanked 310 Times in 227 Posts
|
|
01-05-2020, 10:07 PM | #170 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 20
Thanks: 29
Thanked 32 Times in 10 Posts
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Roy_Hobbs For This Useful Post: | ||
Prestige Worldwide (01-12-2020) |
01-06-2020, 05:57 PM | #171 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 45
Thanks: 2
Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts
|
Looks to me like Mr Owens would like the camp off the island so he can develop it all, I doubt he will ever stop until that happens.
|
01-07-2020, 08:20 PM | #172 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Farm Island
Posts: 80
Thanks: 42
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
|
I hope this helps:
The mission is only to follow local and state law. Farming is allowed. Commercial use is not. For financial benefits the camp entered into a conservation easement. This easement specifically states what they can and cannot do. They violate their own easement. They do not properly dispose of human waste and say they do. I only want the laws followed. Please understand. The records should be understood. The Town has approved the subdivision, but camp Belknap has sued the town and appealed the towns decision. I am buying Farm Island without the subdivision finalized but with the ability to restore the six bedroom cottage (and i will preserve the 1906 status). In the future a structure will be built closer to the water as the 1906 structure is 600 feet from the water. I will be tapping trees for maple syrup, bee keeping and possibly growing Christmas trees. I have three children. They and their friends will enjoy Farm Island no matter what Camp Belknap tries next. I may sell one lot to only offset the exorbitant costs triggered by Seth Kassels. Other than that the rest is up to my children. Thank you all for your input and information. |
01-08-2020, 08:26 AM | #173 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,231
Thanks: 123
Thanked 450 Times in 270 Posts
|
|
01-09-2020, 12:13 PM | #174 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 121
Thanks: 238
Thanked 44 Times in 25 Posts
|
Quote:
Seems the campers may be going number 1 or number 2 while they spend time on Farm Island and are not disposing of it properly. Maybe the camp should put a port -o- potty on the island. Or impose a carry in, carry out requirement for any campers that spend time there. As for the video - I think it is absolutely ridiculous that someone would complain about the scenes of people enjoying themselves on the lake. So much for "Live free or Die". Seems more like - "Live free, but not near Me" |
|
01-09-2020, 12:23 PM | #175 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: the left coast (Portland)and West Alton
Posts: 1,361
Thanks: 63
Thanked 245 Times in 166 Posts
|
The entirety of John Stark's now famous toast is "Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils."
__________________
basking in the benign indifference of the universe |
01-09-2020, 06:20 PM | #176 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 825
Thanks: 113
Thanked 207 Times in 130 Posts
|
The only 'smell'..... many weeks after the camp had stopped.... Hopefully is KARMA!
|
01-10-2020, 01:15 PM | #177 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 61
Thanks: 42
Thanked 35 Times in 14 Posts
|
Camp Belknap
I didn't care about this issue until someone started attacking Camp Belknap. I'm 100% in support of Camp Belknap's interests. We need to preserve ways for more people (especially those less fortunate) to enjoy the lake.
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to samosetguy For This Useful Post: | ||
01-10-2020, 01:17 PM | #178 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Parrish, Florida
Posts: 561
Thanks: 258
Thanked 198 Times in 143 Posts
|
Wasn’t there a meeting the other night? Does anyone know what happened?
|
01-11-2020, 08:21 AM | #179 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Moultonborough & CT
Posts: 2,537
Thanks: 1,065
Thanked 653 Times in 364 Posts
|
Quote:
Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
|
01-11-2020, 11:29 AM | #180 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 1,211
Thanked 976 Times in 603 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to FlyingScot For This Useful Post: | ||
01-11-2020, 01:31 PM | #181 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 20
Thanks: 29
Thanked 32 Times in 10 Posts
|
Farm Island
Quote:
|
|
01-18-2020, 10:17 AM | #182 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Moultonborough & CT
Posts: 2,537
Thanks: 1,065
Thanked 653 Times in 364 Posts
|
Quote:
Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
|
02-12-2020, 12:50 PM | #183 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 140
Thanks: 9
Thanked 124 Times in 66 Posts
|
Does anyone know where things stand today on the sale of Farm Island? It appears to still be listed as sale pending. I had thought the prospective purchaser had posted on this forum that he was going forward with the sale irrespective of what happens with the appeal of the planning board decision, which I took to mean he was waiving that development contingency in the sale. But I can’t find that post anymore (deleted? also possible that my memory is off). If that were true, I would have thought it would have closed already. It is also odd that it was publicly disclosed that the buyer’s contingency was to have expired months ago (the allegation was that Camp Belknap’s challenges at the planning board were to just delay the transaction past the expiration of the contingency so the Camp could swoop in and purchase the property).
|
02-12-2020, 05:25 PM | #184 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 1,211
Thanked 976 Times in 603 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
02-13-2020, 02:44 PM | #186 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 4,190
Thanks: 1,275
Thanked 1,568 Times in 1,018 Posts
|
check my math
Quote:
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Descant For This Useful Post: | ||
BroadHopper (02-21-2020), FlyingScot (02-13-2020) |
02-13-2020, 03:16 PM | #187 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,412
Thanks: 216
Thanked 782 Times in 464 Posts
|
Quote:
It is his cell# listed in the ad. |
|
02-14-2020, 03:25 AM | #188 |
Senior Member
|
"Electric service from the mainland is already on the island."
Hey Randy, is this really true right now, or is it just a sales pitch type of a creative line that can get done sometime, later on ..... you know what I mean?
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 02-14-2020 at 06:50 PM. |
02-21-2020, 10:19 AM | #189 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,231
Thanks: 123
Thanked 450 Times in 270 Posts
|
Was looking at island RE property prices and saw Farm Island 13.3 acres for sale for about 1.5m on “Lake & Island Properties” site. Has the deal w/Owen fallen through?
Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
02-21-2020, 11:27 AM | #190 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,412
Thanks: 216
Thanked 782 Times in 464 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
02-21-2020, 05:24 PM | #191 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 2,949
Thanks: 667
Thanked 2,177 Times in 914 Posts
|
It is possible that the Purchase and Sale agreement has a contingency in it. He could be waiting for certain approvals before closing to make sure he can do what he wants with the property.
No info. Just a guess! |
02-23-2020, 08:37 AM | #192 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melvin village
Posts: 522
Thanks: 512
Thanked 314 Times in 148 Posts
|
Farm Island
Good guess. Closing won't happen until after the courts ruling. Court date is sometime in March.
|
02-23-2020, 12:30 PM | #193 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 140
Thanks: 9
Thanked 124 Times in 66 Posts
|
There has to be something else going on here. The buyer publicly disclosed at a planning board meeting that the contingency for the regulatory approvals was to have expired a month or two ago. Sellers will typically have expiration dates for the contingency so they are not beholden to the buyer if things, as here, get held up for whatever reason. I thought Camp Belknap would have been under contract already since they were supposedly ready and willing to offer a higher price once the current deal’s contingency period expired.
|
02-23-2020, 04:59 PM | #194 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 4,190
Thanks: 1,275
Thanked 1,568 Times in 1,018 Posts
|
Times change
Quote:
|
|
02-23-2020, 05:26 PM | #195 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melvin village
Posts: 522
Thanks: 512
Thanked 314 Times in 148 Posts
|
Farm Island
Quote:
|
|
02-23-2020, 07:16 PM | #196 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 140
Thanks: 9
Thanked 124 Times in 66 Posts
|
|
02-23-2020, 08:08 PM | #197 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 4,190
Thanks: 1,275
Thanked 1,568 Times in 1,018 Posts
|
Ahh. So Camp Belknap needs a godfathjer to buy and resell to them. Why is this all taking so long? They must have some alumni (group) capable of such a transaction. Maybe this is going on and we just don't see it?
|
02-24-2020, 06:01 AM | #198 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,567
Thanks: 742
Thanked 1,426 Times in 988 Posts
|
I am actually surprised it will go to court in March. Court cases can take years.
|
02-24-2020, 08:59 AM | #199 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 152
Thanks: 17
Thanked 66 Times in 42 Posts
|
Case
Can you spell continuance?
|
02-24-2020, 09:04 AM | #200 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,412
Thanks: 216
Thanked 782 Times in 464 Posts
|
There must be some ugly history in the background between the owners and Camp Belknap? I can't imagine the sellers wanting the property to go to someone that would want to potentially develop it vs a children's camp, but clearly that's the case.
|
Bookmarks |
|
|