West Alton Marina manager arrest for alleged sex crimes

[nvmbr9]

Anyone know the full story here?

[mcdude]

Here's the link from the daily Sun
https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...59aca1894.html

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by mcdude

Here's the link from the daily Sun
https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...59aca1894.html

I had seen this two days ago but I was very hesitant to post due to the nature of the charges against the employee


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[DickR]

I hope this forum and the media in general will be very careful not to delve too deeply into this, and will be super sensitive to the privacy of the victims. Let the court deal with the perpetrator, quietly (and harshly if found guilty).

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by DickR

I hope this forum and the media in general will be very careful not to delve too deeply into this, and will be super sensitive to the privacy of the victims. Let the court deal with the perpetrator, quietly (and harshly if found guilty).

I agree, hence I did not start a thread. Time to end the discussion here.


Alan

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

I agree, hence I did not start a thread. Time to end the discussion here.

Certainly there should be no identification of the young victims, but the alleged perpetrator should not "get a bye."

As details become available and are made public I see nothing wrong with reporting them here, as this story clearly is of public interest.

[TiltonBB]

The owner, Brian A. Fortier, 50, was indicted by a Belknap County Grand Jury on April 21, on several felonies.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...9dce2a182.html

[Descant]

We've been through this before when the courts told a business owner to divest and not associate with others in the business. Nothing to se here, folks. Move along.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Descant

We've been through this before when the courts told a business owner to divest and not associate with others in the business. Nothing to se here, folks. Move along.

That could happen here. There are already inquiries happening by at least one other marina owner should the property be sold.

At this point it might be nice to see a change of ownership. After front page stories, and whatever else comes out in public as the legal process continues, it will be difficult to move beyond this.

[tis]

Where was the other owner or owners when all this was happening?

[GilfordSonny]

The owner was arrested on similar charges as the manager was last year. And if the allegations are proved to be true I think it would be a little slice of justice if the alleged victims end up owning the marina, or the cash that a sale would generate.

[bchbum]

Hide your kids if you have a slip there

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by GilfordSonny

The owner was arrested on similar charges as the manager was last year. And if the allegations are proved to be true I think it would be a little slice of justice if the alleged victims end up owning the marina, or the cash that a sale would generate.

This is one of those funny things where it's a shock that there are two of them, and then on reflection it makes perfect sense that they live together. On the other side of the equation, we should not be surprised if there are more victims than we know of today.

[tis]

Originally Posted by GilfordSonny

The owner was arrested on similar charges as the manager was last year. And if the allegations are proved to be true I think it would be a little slice of justice if the alleged victims end up owning the marina, or the cash that a sale would generate.

On WMUR it said ONE of the owners, so I wonder where the other owner (s) were when all this was happening. And yes, apparently the manager and the one owner are a couple.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by tis

On WMUR it said ONE of the owners, so I wonder where the other owner (s) were when all this was happening. And yes, apparently the manager and the one owner are a couple.

The other owner is Fortier's sister but she has a different last name.

[tis]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The other owner is Fortier's sister but she has a different last name.

Ok thanks. Well, sister and brother, no wonder.

[lagoon]

Originally Posted by Descant

We've been through this before when the courts told a business owner to divest and not associate with others in the business. Nothing to se here, folks. Move along.

This does not surprise me at all. I have dealt with him and his partner and felt the overtones of what has happened here. He was particularly rude last time I was at his business and will never go back there no matter what unless he's not involved. I will say his sister was very gracious but that does not make up for him. Should this all be proven true he will no longer be in the marina business I am quite sure.

I do remember the statement below from the owner. Now it appears this statement was issued while he was alleged to be asking victims to not report the crimes accurately, which itself is a crime.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________

During the same time that Fortier was alleged to have been pressuring witnesses to withhold information from investigators, he provided the following statement to The Laconia Daily Sun:

​​“Our family is shocked and deeply saddened by the disturbing allegations against former employee John Murray," wrote Fortier. “Our hearts are broken and our thoughts and prayers are with everyone affected. We have hired outside counsel and consultants to undertake a thorough review of this matter. We will use this information to adapt policies and procedures that will ensure a safe environment for employees and the public. We will continue to carry on the vision of our parents and grandparents and dedicate our lives to making West Alton Marina a fun, loving, family destination.”

[TiltonBB]

Well, you knew this was coming, it was just a matter of time.

"The suit also alleges that employees (including the plaintiff) that spurned Murray’s advances were punished by receiving harder responsibilities and being denied work hours. Those that capitulated were rewarded with “favorable performance reviews, assigning easier responsibilities, assigning more and better work hours, and in other ways.”

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...84ab0a2bd.html

[Woodsy]

Looks like this kid's family is smart... Not sure what the liability limits are, but I am sure this is just the first of many lawsuits.

I don't think this is the last of it... Should be interesting to see who else this tangled web might ensnare.



Woodsy

[codeman671]

This one may be hard to recover from. I would imagine that their business certainly won't be affected much as slips are so scarce, but would think this will hurt their ability to hire seasonal employees which will trickle down to customer treatment. Probably some major conflict within the family/partners as well. Buyout or complete sale?

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Probably some major conflict within the family/partners as well. Buyout or complete sale?

I know nothing of this family and their wealth but unless they're very well-heeled he'll probably need to sell his interest in the business to pay for top-notch attorneys to defend him.

[TiltonBB]

A co-owner of the West Alton Marina, who was recently charged with sexual assault, has been jailed for allegedly having unsupervised contact with a minor in violation of the terms of his bail.

On Monday Superior Court Judge Jacki Smith ordered Fortier to be held at the county jail until he was outfitted with an electronic monitoring ankle bracelet and placed under the oversight of the Correction Department’s pretrial services office.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...97e28bdd6.html

[FlyingScot]

I'm good with innocent until proven guilty, but this bail is a joke. First, it's only $10K for a guy facing serious time and plenty of assets. Second, he violates bail in a way that's in direct relation to the case (as opposed to, say, drug possession or a bar fight), and they're going to let him right back out?

[TiltonBB]

Now you know what happened to the Gilford Police Chief and why he resigned.

One of the suits alleges that Murray told the plaintiff that it would be useless for him to go to police because he was having sex with the Gilford police chief and another officer and so was “untouchable.”

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...3d4720ec6.html

[Woodsy]

I figured the happenings were related...

Woodsy

[Lake Fan]

Looks like Alton's got a regular Peyton Place on steroids happening.

I wonder how far the rot goes?

[Susie Cougar]

The sad thing is that there are children involved, as well. I can only imagine what the parents are going through.

[CaptT820]

We have launched our boat at West Alton Marina for six years now and have interacted with everyone involved with this case at one point or another. Our camp is on Sleeper, which is across from the marina and very convenient for us to use. We are not comfortable launching there now, knowing that our money is going to essentially pay for lawyers.

This is certainly an inconvenience for us to launch somewhere else, but worth it to not finance this enterprise anymore.

I agree with others regarding slip demand and how this will affect their business short term, but a change of ownership would be refreshing here.

Naivety is not a defense of the law. Owning the business, entails knowing what is going on with the business.

[codeman671]

Granted they are not typically in my travels, but I will not give them a dime going forward. I will run out of gas and get a tow first.

But if they are looking to sell out, I would like to invest! Time to flush the scum out of there and make it a safe environment.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by codeman671

But if they are looking to sell out, I would like to invest! Time to flush the scum out of there and make it a safe environment.

IIRC< two of the owners are sisters of the alleged perpetrator and they've not been charged with any crime; how are these two ladies "scum?"

[Patiently Watching]

The owners of West Alton Marine have allowed/encouraged an environment of lies and abuse that have caused life long damage to the victims.
It is hard to imagine anyone spending their money at the establishment knowing what has gone on there.... How do you sleep at night?
The civil lawsuits should ultimately result in a full overhaul of ownership as the damages could be in the tens of millions $$$.

[TiltonBB]

Since there are very few available boat slips now it will be difficult for anyone using that marina to relocate. It would be nice, as a matter of principal, for someone to say I refuse to spend my money there but would someone miss a boating season for that? I doubt it.


It will be interesting to see how this all sorts out. There is a 2020 $5 million loan from Meredith Village Savings bank for the construction and expansion that the bank is worried about now. Any potential buyer will have to deal with that.

If this ends up at a foreclosure auction the bank will probably have their attorney there to bid it up to get the sale price to close to or over the amount that is owed. That is what usually happens.

This issue will be going on for a while. There are no quick solutions and any news coming out in the near future will probably not be good news.

[MeredithMan]

I just started a new role with a new company a week ago and completed their sexual harassment training as part of my onboarding. The scenarios in the training videos are always a bit extreme and obvious to get the point across and they always state something to the effect of, "...harassment can have severe financial consequences on you and your employer".

As I've read the intertwined stories of the Gilford Police Chief and the Marina, it's like an extreme training video scenario. "You can't go to the cops, because I'm doing the Police Chief..."

If this all proves true at trial, hopefully these creeps are all locked up, the marina sold, and the money awarded to the victims.

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

IIRC< two of the owners are sisters of the alleged perpetrator and they've not been charged with any crime; how are these two ladies "scum?"

And you think they had no information or knowledge about what was going on? Come on, having sex with the chief of police. It sounds like he was bragging about it.

[steve-on-mark]

We can all speculate until we're blue in the face, but I feel like some things are better left unsaid. I'm sure that whoever will be investigating this nonsense will do a good and thorough job, all the facts will come out, and justice will fall where it may.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

IIRC< two of the owners are sisters of the alleged perpetrator and they've not been charged with any crime; how are these two ladies "scum?"

I didn't specifically call the two ladies "scum", I was referring to the brother and husband. But, it has already been alleged that the OWNERS were aware of what was going on and did nothing to stop it. From the Laconia Daily Sun article previously posted:


"ALTON — Four former employees have now filed suit against the West Alton Marina alleging that they were subject to sexual assault and harassment by the facility’s former manager, John Murray, and further alleging that marina’s owners failed to intervene to stop the behavior.

One of the suits alleges that Murray told the plaintiff that it would be useless for him to go to police because he was having sex with the Gilford police chief and another officer and so was “untouchable.”

In addition to Murray, the suits name marina owners Brian Fortier, and Fortier’s sisters, Deidre Tibbetts and Allyson Shea, as defendants."

[Boatbottom952]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Since there are very few available boat slips now it will be difficult for anyone using that marina to relocate. It would be nice, as a matter of principal, for someone to say I refuse to spend my money there but would someone miss a boating season for that? I doubt it.


It will be interesting to see how this all sorts out. There is a 2020 $5 million loan from Meredith Village Savings bank for the construction and expansion that the bank is worried about now. Any potential buyer will have to deal with that.

If this ends up at a foreclosure auction the bank will probably have their attorney there to bid it up to get the sale price to close to or over the amount that is owed. That is what usually happens.

This issue will be going on for a while. There are no quick solutions and any news coming out in the near future will probably not be good news.

It would be nice, as a matter of principal, for someone to say I refuse to spend my money there but would someone miss a boating season for that? I doubt it.

So what you are saying is Rich Boaters will put their FUN in front of their MORALS. Is this correct?

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by codeman671

I didn't specifically call the two ladies "scum", I was referring to the brother and husband. But, it has already been alleged that the OWNERS were aware of what was going on and did nothing to stop it.

I haven't read anywhere that the co-owners, i.e. the sisters, actually knew about the alleged sex abuse until the story broke.

Do you really think the perpetrator(s) would keep the ladies briefed regularly as to what they did / were doing?

No, I suspect that it was "secret stuff."

Alas, the sisters will likely become unwitting victims as well and lose it all.

[XCR-700]

Oh god, could this be more sickening,,,

The only other word that comes to mind is tragic.

How does such madness happen in 2022 and in a place like Winnipesaukee.

Its almost unbelievable. This is the kind of thing you expect to here behind the curtain in some communist 3rd world country, but not here.

[upthesaukee]

In a perfect world, boat owners could just say I'm out of here. Easier said than done.

I kept my 25 ft bowrider at WAM for a few years. If you wanted to dock the following year, you needed to store the boat during the off-season with WAM. There also was a downpayment on the docking charge in the fall and I believe a $1000 installment due Feb 1 with the balance before the boat is launched in the spring.

I looked for our old records from WAM , but after we sold the boat in 2019, we purged the records from our file cabinet. If memory serves me, we paid about $3800 to dock, and had a fall downpayment of about a third, so somewhere around $1300-1500. Add to that $1000 in Feb, and about 2/3 of the fee for the year has been paid. I personally could not walk away from that and start over even if I could find a dock. (You know that they would not just give you the money back)

IMHO, those who are there will have a choice in late summer about what they will do for the 2023 season. For this year, they are pretty much stuck.

One comment about the defendants in any lawsuit like these. The plaintiffs will name "everyone" who could possibly be involved initially, which later may be reduced as the lawsuit winds its through the court system. That we will all have to wait and see.

Dave

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Oh god, could this be more sickening,,,

The only other word that comes to mind is tragic.

How does such madness happen in 2022 and in a place like Winnipesaukee.

Its almost unbelievable. This is the kind of thing you expect to here behind the curtain in some communist 3rd world country, but not here.

Agree on tragic and sickening. But I think we've seen very clearly over the past 10 years or so that depravity does not know politics, religion, and other espoused values. It's happened in hundreds of American churches and scout troops, so a marina should not be a surprise (though I admit I'm surprised). If you see something, say something...

[LikeLakes]

Without making accusations of things I/we don't know the full details of, it seems like we can all agree that a sale of the business to a new owner would be a positive step, to an owner that appreciated and supported their team of employees going forward. I have a feeling this may happen sooner rather than later due to the bank involvement described above. No reason for it to be a fire sale auction, there is a ton of value in that marina and the bank would cooperate with a new owner. I'd be shocked if behind the scenes discussions were not already happening about this.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Agree on tragic and sickening. But I think we've seen very clearly over the past 10 years or so that depravity does not know politics, religion, and other espoused values. It's happened in hundreds of American churches and scout troops, so a marina should not be a surprise (though I admit I'm surprised). If you see something, say something...

XCR-700 asked, "How does such madness happen in 2022 and in a place like Winnipesaukee?" There are a few causes of pedophilia, but we need to separate the causes within the perpetrators from detection and reporting. In some posts in this thread we see an aversion to talking about pedophilia, a hush-hush tone. Why? Because sex crimes are embarrassing? Shameful? When this aversion is conveyed to children and adolescents, they are less likely to report pedophilia to their parents, guidance counselors, or the police. It's hard to prosecute a hidden crime or fix a hidden social condition. Of course, this crime is the opposite of the life we associate with the Lakes Region, so it's understandable that some people would prefer not to talk about it in this forum. (But we talk about plenty of other unsavory things, like high taxes, Covid wars, etc.) Silence isn't going to help this problem.

[John Mercier]

Liability insurance may cover any civil action.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

I'd be shocked if behind the scenes discussions were not already happening about this.

There have been discussions with at least two major players.

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Liability insurance may cover any civil action.

Most liability insurance policies have an exclusion for criminal acts. I would be surprised if their policy does not have that.

[dickiej]

I’m confused….admittedly, I haven’t been reading following all the details…is the police chief male or female?

[mcdude]

what difference would that make?

[John Mercier]

The two sisters are third-party.
The insurance would need to determine their direct involvement with the crimes and the oversight of operation. If simply negligent as silent partners... I suspect they would be covered.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by dickiej

I’m confused….admittedly, I haven’t been reading following all the details…is the police chief male or female?

I believe the reference is to Gilford police chief Anthony Bean Burpee, so male. Mcdude asks what difference that would make. I guess some jobs have some kind of "morality clause" but I don't know what those standards are. Morality can be hard to determine. In this day and age homosexuality is no longer immoral for more than half of the country (judging from the acceptance of gay marriage both legally and in the public perception). But having a relationship with a pedophile (a criminal) would impugn a public servant. Apparently people who violate morality norms are at risk of blackmail, which impairs their ability to perform their duties. Heterosexual relationships between employees of the same company or agency are sometimes prohibited because they create boundary issues like favoritism and power imbalances. Legally, I don't think it matters whether the Gilford police chief is male or female or gay or straight, but I think a connection to a pedophile would matter a great deal, which may be why he resigned.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

I believe the reference is to Gilford police chief Anthony Bean Burpee, so male. Mcdude asks what difference that would make. I guess some jobs have some kind of "morality clause" but I don't know what those standards are. Morality can be hard to determine. In this day and age homosexuality is no longer immoral for more than half of the country (judging from the acceptance of gay marriage both legally and in the public perception). But having a relationship with a pedophile (a criminal) would impugn a public servant. Apparently people who violate morality norms are at risk of blackmail, which impairs their ability to perform their duties. Heterosexual relationships between employees of the same company or agency are sometimes prohibited because they create boundary issues like favoritism and power imbalances. Legally, I don't think it matters whether the Gilford police chief is male or female or gay or straight, but I think a connection to a pedophile would matter a great deal.

Also at the same time, the police chief was allegedly having an affair with another man, it cannot be expected that he knew what the other man was doing as well.
I would imagine he stepped down due to the investigation on the sex crimes revealed his infidelity and as stated above, from a morality standpoint not a good look for the Police chief to be stepping out in any circumstance, and then the possible connection to what the other person on top of it.

[John Mercier]

Possibly the off chance that a charge of Official Oppression could be registered.
If further investigation revealed that the Chief was doing as the accused stated and setting aside complaints rather than investigating them.

None of us will really know for some time as cases take a while to make it through the court system.

[jeffk]

As far as I know, the owner is still in charge of the marina. As a young person, would you want to be working for this terrible excuse for a human being? Would a responsible parent want their kids working there? Would you want to be working there if you were an adult? Grant that an adult may need a steady paycheck but other options have to be available and I would be looking for another job ASAP.

As a customer, I would be worried about reliable service amidst the chaos, as well as moral concerns of supporting such a group of owners.

A sale of the marina might resolve these problems but that is not happening right away.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Possibly the off chance that a charge of Official Oppression could be registered.
If further investigation revealed that the Chief was doing as the accused stated and setting aside complaints rather than investigating them.

None of us will really know for some time as cases take a while to make it through the court system.

It is not within the scope of the Gilford Chief's authority to investigate crimes in Alton. He wouldn't be setting aside complaints because they allege crimes committed in Alton, out of his jurisdiction.

[John Mercier]

Then using his official status to interfere.

It doesn't make a huge amount of sense to resign for something that isn't going to magically go away... nor would it be criminal on his part.

What are they going to do... fire him for being bi/homosexual?
Not like the Town of Gilford could afford that lawsuit.

[tis]

I heard on tv that he couldn't do his job because somebody could threaten to "out" him. Sort of like blackmail I guess so they couldn't be charged with a crime.

[John Mercier]

Well, technically... he is outed.
So why leave?

[tis]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Well, technically... he is outed.
So why leave?

I think he left before he was outed.

[upthesaukee]

Back in 2014, he discussed being gay and was one of the first gay police chiefs. It's not like he was being "outed" by all this.

Dave

[tis]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Back in 2014, he discussed being gay and was one of the first gay police chiefs. It's not like he was being "outed" by all this.

Dave

I think by outed they meant more than just the fact he is gay. More like they knew what was going on.

[John Mercier]

Outed mean homosexual.

If he knew more, and didn't act, he could be criminally charged.
That could even put the Town of Gilford in the sights of the lawyers.

If the marina's insurance won't cover the suit, and the marina may not be as deep a well as some think, moving toward the ex-Chief and the town would be the next well.

[tis]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Outed mean homosexual.

If he knew more, and didn't act, he could be criminally charged.
That could even put the Town of Gilford in the sights of the lawyers.

If the marina's insurance won't cover the suit, and the marina may not be as deep a well as some think, moving toward the ex-Chief and the town would be the next well.

I would have to be living in a cave if I didn't know what outed means.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Outed mean homosexual.

If he knew more, and didn't act, he could be criminally charged.
That could even put the Town of Gilford in the sights of the lawyers.

If the marina's insurance won't cover the suit, and the marina may not be as deep a well as some think, moving toward the ex-Chief and the town would be the next well.

He cannot act on something that is outside his jurisdiction. The Gilford Police Chief has no power in Alton so there is nothing for him to act on.

The town of Gilford has no liability in this matter. What an employee does on his own time in a different town is not the responsibility of the town.

Being named in the investigation as having been somehow involved in this out of town matter may reflect poorly on him but unless his conduct was criminal it will end there. If there was no criminal conduct on his part, and what happens between two consenting adults is not criminal, then it will end there.

It remains to be seen if there is more to the story.

Attachments of more than $6 million worth of assets are being sought against West Alton Marina and its owners by four plaintiffs who have filed civil suits. The plaintiffs are asking the court to seize a total of $6,750,000 in assets to ensure there will be funds available to pay any any damages that might be awarded as part of the final judgment in their cases.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...23ec8eb3b.html

[John Mercier]

Sorry, but as a part of his office... he must forward the complaint.
So yes, he would have had the power to act and chose not to... if it is determined that he knew of the situation.

''A public servant, as defined in RSA 640:2, II, is guilty of a misdemeanor if, with a purpose to benefit himself or another or to harm another, he knowingly commits an unauthorized act which purports to be an act of his office; or knowingly refrains from performing a duty imposed on him by law or clearly inherent in the nature of his office.''

The town would have an employee that committed a crime, just like the marina.
The town could be held liable for the actions of the employee, just like the marina.

The nature of his employment, in this situation, does not allow for ''personal'' time.

[SailinAway]

In any case, under NH law everyone is required to report abuse of a minor or elderly person.

[mcdude]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

I agree, hence I did not start a thread. Time to end the discussion here.
Alan

Just a comment: This topic has been explored appropriately and with prudence IMHO. No names have been named and no ugly off-topic comments have been made. I applaud you, fellow forumites.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Sorry, but as a part of his office... he must forward the complaint.
So yes, he would have had the power to act and chose not to... if it is determined that he knew of the situation.

''A public servant, as defined in RSA 640:2, II, is guilty of a misdemeanor if, with a purpose to benefit himself or another or to harm another, he knowingly commits an unauthorized act which purports to be an act of his office; or knowingly refrains from performing a duty imposed on him by law or clearly inherent in the nature of his office.''

The town would have an employee that committed a crime, just like the marina.
The town could be held liable for the actions of the employee, just like the marina.

The nature of his employment, in this situation, does not allow for ''personal'' time.

Your post is full of speculation. You are jumping to conclusions not supported by the evidence. There has been no evidence thus far that the Chief broke any laws.

Forward the complaint? There has been nothing revealed so far to determine that the Chief got any complaints.

This was in the news: "One of the suits alleges that Murray told the plaintiff that it would be useless for him to go to police because he was having sex with the Gilford police chief and another officer and so was “untouchable.”

That sentence doesn't say that the Chief did anything wrong or illegal. He is not responsible for Murray's claims, and may not even be aware of them. It is legal for the Chief to have a relationship with Murray.

The town would have an employee that committed a crime? What crime? There has been no evidence thus far that the chief knew of the illegal activities of Murray and his partner, only a claim by Murray that had had a relationship with the chief.

The nature of his employment does not allow for personal time? So in a jurisdiction where he has no police powers, when he is not at work, and where you have no facts to show he knew of any crimes, you still think he "refrained from a duty imposed upon him by law?" And, you think the town of Gilford is somehow liable?

If, as you claim, he has no personal time, and the town is somehow liable for his actions all the time, and must report crimes, would you say the town of Gilford was somehow responsible if the Chief failed to report a violation of law, say, while vacationing in California? You know, like saw a speeder in a car but didn't report it?

[John Mercier]

If you have been reading... we are speculating why the resignation?

It wasn't because he was homosexual. So what was it?

If he knew... or even suspected... do to interaction with any of the parties... his duty is to move it to the Alton Chief and the AG.

And no, a police chief can not state ''I was off duty when the crime happened''... ''I was off duty when suspicion of a crime was happening''... ''I heard the rumor when I was off duty''.

The law does not allow for that.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

If you have been reading... we are speculating why the resignation?

It wasn't because he was homosexual. So what was it?

If he knew... or even suspected... do to interaction with any of the parties... his duty is to move it to the Alton Chief and the AG.

And no, a police chief can not state ''I was off duty when the crime happened''... ''I was off duty when suspicion of a crime was happening''... ''I heard the rumor when I was off duty''.

The law does not allow for that.

"We" are not speculating. I am speaking of known facts and pointing out where your speculation does not agree with the facts.

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Possibly the off chance that a charge of Official Oppression could be registered.
If further investigation revealed that the Chief was doing as the accused stated and setting aside complaints rather than investigating them.

None of us will really know for some time as cases take a while to make it through the court system.

You are the only one speculating, and doing so with a lack of information and distortion of the actual facts. Among other errors, the accused (Murray) never stated that the Chief was setting aside complaints. Murray said that there was no point in going to the police because of his relationship with the Chief. You turned that into the accused stating the chief was setting aside complaints, and added the possibility of official oppression.

At this point, what is known is the Chief may have had a relationship with Murray. That is all. There has been no public accusation of anything illegal on the part of the Chief. Turning that into liability for the town is, at this time, a stretch. More information will certainly come out as the legal process continues.

[TiltonBB]

The financial aspects of this matter should be interesting.

The accusers families have asked for an attachment of over $6 million on the marina. Meredith Village Savings Bank has a mortgage of over $5 million on the property. That will total over $11 million in liens, if nothing else comes up.

Looking at recent sales and comparing what Channel Marine and Thurston's Marina sold for it is hard to see a property valuation that will be anywhere near that for West Alton Marina.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

"We" are not speculating. I am speaking of known facts and pointing out where your speculation does not agree with the facts.


You are the only one speculating, and doing so with a lack of information and distortion of the actual facts. Among other errors, the accused (Murray) never stated that the Chief was setting aside complaints. Murray said that there was no point in going to the police because of his relationship with the Chief. You turned that into the accused stating the chief was setting aside complaints, and added the possibility of official oppression.

At this point, what is known is the Chief may have had a relationship with Murray. That is all. There has been no public accusation of anything illegal on the part of the Chief. Turning that into liability for the town is, at this time, a stretch. More information will certainly come out as the legal process continues.

No. If you read the posts... different people posted on what might be the reason for his resignation.

Since it isn't his sexuality... and no one can think of a good reason... I speculated that he may have had some insight into rumors, and failure to pass those to other authorities would be official oppression.

So far. No one has come up with any reason that he would resign. People knew he was homosexual. He isn't the first official, even a local police chief to have an adulterous affair... not even news around here... and the only time it has been news is when the official failed their duty.

Even a misdemeanor conviction against a police officer is not that unusual... so I am open minded as to what it may be.

Personally, I don't think it is any more of a stretch than the silent partner sisters. They didn't commit the claimed acts; we don't even know if they had heard any rumors or had any knowledge of it.

What we know is that well is only so deep, and we don't know what property was pledged in support of the bank note. Was it just the marina, or did it include homes and other property?

The chief's resignation seems odd with the history that we have around here.

[winni83]

The existence of the mortgage and the attachment liens, if they are upheld, will certainly impact any voluntary sale. But a foreclosure of the mortgage will extinguish the attachments, with the proviso that any excess foreclosure sale proceeds above the amount owed to the mortgagee will go first to valid junior lienors and then to the owner. This assumes that taxes and other municipal liens are current. Candidate for a Chapter 11 filing?

[Descant]

Not part of this thread directly, but I am under the impression that WAM planned some major upgrades and/or expansion. If that is the case, and the work has not been done, the bank may still have some of the funds held back and the eventual debt could be much less. Is there work in progress? If I were a contractor, I'd want payment in advance. It would probably sell for more if it went condo.

[camp guy]

I think what mcdude had to say last evening was appropriate, but I fear that as this thread moves through time it (the thread) could easily deteriorate into something rather unseemly. Maybe it is time to let this topic rest and move on to topics more about boating, restaurants, and lake life.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Before we let it rest, may I mention the best selling novel, Peyton Place, written by Grace Metalious (sic) about a small NH town. Does this ring a bell? At the time, it was s shocking tale. Hmmm…

[Mr. V]

Speculation: Perhaps the chief resigned because he suspected his relationship with one of the accused would become known and cast him in a bad light, personally and professionally.

Question: did he resign before the story of the sexual abuse broke in the media?

If so, perhaps he knew about it and figured "Uh oh, I'm in an impossible position."

If he resigned after it broke then he probably read the hand writing on the wall and left to avoid further scandal.

Sad, either way: it seems he was a competent policeman; hopefully he'll do OK elsewhere.

[John Mercier]

Shocking at the time.
Today it would be rather tepid.

Winni83... I think I am more questioning what the final sales value would be?
It obviously speculation... but rising interest rates and the shadow of a serious recession... simply make me wonder if there would be enough to even come close to covering the lawsuit; should it come to that.

I can't seem to find records on incorporation... but it may be that I am not looking under the correct name.

[winni83]

John, the name is West Alton Marina, LLC. It is a Delaware LLC registered to do business in NH.

https://quickstart.sos.nh.gov/online...usinessID=4731

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

No. If you read the posts... different people posted on what might be the reason for his resignation. . . . The chief's resignation seems odd with the history that we have around here.

Sometimes people resign hastily to head off an investigation. That doesn't indicate guilt, though. It seems unlikely that the resignation is completely unrelated to the marina affair, given the timing. That would seem to indicate that the chief foresaw that the investigation into Murray would turn up something unfavorable to the chief that would result in his firing. Better to quit than be fired. I'm only speculating.

[John Mercier]

That was my thoughts.
But I just can't imagine what.

I just can't imagine that the lawyer working for the plaintiffs would not pursue that.
It may lead to nothing, but advocating for your client should lead you somewhat in that direction.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

That was my thoughts. But I just can't imagine what. I just can't imagine that the lawyer working for the plaintiffs would not pursue that. It may lead to nothing, but advocating for your client should lead you somewhat in that direction.

The chief must have resigned based on legal advice, indicating that what the public doesn't know about his case is not small. NHPR, May 3: "[The chief] had been on paid leave since Jan. 10. He has been the subject of a criminal investigation by the Public Integrity Unit of the state Attorney General‘s Criminal Justice Bureau." Four months later, the AG apparently had discovered enough to convince Bean Burpee to resign.

This statement by Brian Fortier is pretty strange and disingenuous given that he was or is married to John Murray, according to the lawsuit: "Our family is shocked and deeply saddened by the disturbing allegations against former employee John Murray."

[CaptT820]

I agree with others, that until we have more information, there isnt much else to say on this topic from an evidence standpoint. However, it does affect many boaters, slip renters, etc. in the fact that the Marina may change hands. It would be difficult renting a slip at West Alton right now, as you have a prime spot with a lot of amenities but a very questionable/unstable ownership situation.

By pure speculation, I imagine the asking price for the marina would be in the $40-$70M range. 162 Acres, with 440 slips at an average of $4500-$5000 annual rent, dockside market, fuel, commercial operations, location.. location... location. It is a high interest rate market, with a tenuous legal situation, crazy high demand with no supply, and how often does a marina actually go up for sale on the lake? When a one of one situation comes up (unique), the sky is the limit on price.

[TiltonBB]

Marina sales on the lake are not all that uncommon.

Channel Marine, Thurston's, Shep Brown's, and the Pier all sold within the last four years. None of the sale prices exceeded $3.5 million and some were much less. However, none had the number of slips that West Alton has.

If the buyer pays a price on the high end, arriving at that price based upon cash flow, that could be a problem if the economy continues to slow down. The economy is cyclical and when it slows down the income may not be enough to satisfy the debt. Empty slips don't generate any income.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by CaptT820

By pure speculation, I imagine the asking price for the marina would be in the $40-$70M range.

I really don't think so. I realize you are just speculating, so who knows, but while it is a very valuable property I don't believe it is anywhere near that range.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

I really don't think so. I realize you are just speculating, so who knows, but while it is a very valuable property I don't believe it is anywhere near that range.

Go condo young man. 440 slips at~$100 K is $44,000,000, plus valet and other assets. Slips at MVYC are going for $175K.

[LikeLakes]

I guess in this crazy market anything can happen! Will be curious to see the result.

[Poor Richard]

Originally Posted by Descant

Go condo young man. 440 slips at~$100 K is $44,000,000, plus valet and other assets. Slips at MVYC are going for $175K.

Small difference is, WAM has the stigma of employing pedos. I wouldn't exactly file that under "value add" but that's just me.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by Poor Richard

Small difference is, WAM has the stigma of employing pedos. I wouldn't exactly file that under "value add" but that's just me.

Liens and perhaps complicated purchase parameters may affect value, but not so sure the legal situation will. New owner gets to clear the slate, enact proper, proactive, modern employment training and policies and get a fresh new start.

If I bought WAM I'd hire a well qualified HR/employment person right away to make sure practices were correct and send the message of zero tolerance from day 1.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Poor Richard

Small difference is, WAM has the stigma of employing pedos. I wouldn't exactly file that under "value add" but that's just me.

Ten days, no, make that 5 days, after the sale, nobody will remember their names. Certainly not the proud new owners of 440 slips, and/or valet services. Ya gotta believe that all the boat owners posting looking for slips are sharpening their pencils and salivating at the thought that WAM will be a condo by next spring. Right behind them are all the investors who want passive income.

[Patiently Watching]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The financial aspects of this matter should be interesting.

The accusers families have asked for an attachment of over $6 million on the marina. Meredith Village Savings Bank has a mortgage of over $5 million on the property. That will total over $11 million in liens, if nothing else comes up.

Looking at recent sales and comparing what Channel Marine and Thurston's Marina sold for it is hard to see a property valuation that will be anywhere near that for West Alton Marina.

West Alton Marina is quite the property and definitely has more land value than the others.

[TiltonBB]

Fifth lawsuit filed, by a female

As with the four suits filed earlier, the plaintiff is alleging that she suffered physical harm and continues to suffer from emotional distress which has required therapy and counseling.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...0ffd42959.html

[lagoon]

All of this is following a not unknown pattern. As a former customer I wish I had been more tuned into the illegal behavior towards youth there. I will say that one of the fellows on trial actually tried to pick me up while there for boat service. His remarks were way off base and looking back I should have done something other than telling him I did not "go that direction".

If guilty, they will both be out of commission for long time. The marina will be sold and the rich heritage of the Colby family will be stained because of these two sick individuals.

[TiltonBB]

In the new filing, lawyers for West Alton Marina, Fortier and Murray are asking a judge to move at least two of the lawsuits from state to federal court.

https://www.wmur.com/article/west-al...court/40278166

[John Mercier]

From the newscast, I think they are arguing that the cases fall under federal law , but not State law.

I would think that NH RSA 354-A:7 Section V (5) should cover that.

''V. Harassment on the basis of sex constitutes unlawful sex discrimination. Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal, non-verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitutes sexual harassment when:
(a) Submission to such conduct is made either explicitly or implicitly a term or condition of an individual's employment;
(b) Submission to or rejection of such conduct by an individual is used as the basis for employment decisions affecting such individual; or
(c) Such conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's work performance or creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive working environment."

[wentworthwhitbreadIII]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

From the newscast, I think they are arguing that the cases fall under federal law , but not State law.

I would think that NH RSA 354-A:7 Section V (5) should cover that.

''V. Harassment on the basis of sex constitutes unlawful sex discrimination. Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal, non-verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitutes sexual harassment when:
(a) Submission to such conduct is made either explicitly or implicitly a term or condition of an individual's employment;
(b) Submission to or rejection of such conduct by an individual is used as the basis for employment decisions affecting such individual; or
(c) Such conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's work performance or creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive working environment."

I suggest checking with the former chief of police in Gilford if anyone wants more information on the situation at WAM. He appears to have intimate knowledge and some time on his hands.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[John Mercier]

The Chief wouldn't know anymore about the NH statute than the statute itself.

It is really a matter of whether the plaintiff's lawyers can convince a judge that the case has standing in NH.

[TiltonBB]

The investigation concluded there was “insufficient evidence to meet the State’s burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chief Burpee committed a crime."

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...748baf96d.html

[wentworthwhitbreadIII]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The investigation concluded there was “insufficient evidence to meet the State’s burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chief Burpee committed a crime."

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...748baf96d.html

Aka not easily found guilty but also not innocent. Not the kind of person I’d choose to enforce the law in my neighborhood.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[knowit]

Drove through WAM for the first time the other day. I have to say it looks like a shanty town with all those gazebos. Quite disgusting and depressing if you ask me. Do people camp in those things? Skid Row is great description for it. Just my opinion.

[Lakeboater]

Originally Posted by knowit

Drove through WAM for the first time the other day. I have to say it looks like a shanty town with all those gazebos. Quite disgusting and depressing if you ask me. Do people camp in those things? Skid Row is great description for it. Just my opinion.

Do they, yes. But I believe they are not supposed to be for “sleeping” in.

[knowit]

Originally Posted by Lakeboater

Do they, yes. But I believe they are not supposed to be for “sleeping” in.

That is absolutely disgusting.