Staffing Issues for Summer of 2021

[TheTimeTraveler]

I know that many restaurants (and other businesses) have traditionally had difficult times in filling their open summer positions (especially after the second week of August) but there are early indications that the summer of 2021 may have the largest staffing issues ever.

If these predictions come true, could this cause some of these restaurants to seriously limit their days/hours, or close entirely? After all, the owners of these businesses can only work so many hours themselves before they are totally burned out....

The Lakes Region may in fact see a record amount of summer tourism, and I am hoping that our favorite restaurants are able to thrive and survive the anticipated surge of business.

It will be a very interesting summer for sure.......

[Lakegeezer]

According to the state unemployment site, Starting May 23rd the department will once again be requiring claim filers to conduct a weekly work search as a condition for being considered eligible for unemployment benefits. The supply of people looking for jobs may increase after that.

[Biggd]

It will be a good summer to stay home and cook on the grill.

[8gv]

As if previous years were not difficult enough for staffing...

Now the businesses have to compete with the couch career path.

It's getting interesting...

[WinnisquamZ]

Wondering if this is happening here. It must be
Cutthroat on the Cape: Restaurants vie for shrunken pool of employees https://www.bostonherald.com/good read in today’s Boston Herald 2021/04/30/cutthroat-on-the-cape-restaurants-vie-for-shrunken-pool-of-employees/


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[SAMIAM]

Very bad for two reasons this year.
The large resorts and camps in the lakes region rely on H2B
and J1 students with seasonal visas for much of their summer help and they are not getting many this year so they have to draw on the local labor pool to fill summer jobs.
Also,the enhanced unemployment benefits which are in effect through september, are causing people to just stay home and not work.
We are considering closing evenings for the summer because we just don't have enough staff to cover the shifts.
People are getting out more and it's shaping up for a big recovery this summer so it's going to be a struggle for many in the hospitality industry

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Very bad for two reasons this year.
The large resorts and camps in the lakes region rely on H2B
and J1 students with seasonal visas for much of their summer help and they are not getting many this year so they have to draw on the local labor pool to fill summer jobs.
Also,the enhanced unemployment benefits which are in effect through september, are causing people to just stay home and not work.
We are considering closing evenings for the summer because we just don't have enough staff to cover the shifts.
People are getting out more and it's shaping up for a big recovery this summer so it's going to be a struggle for many in the hospitality industry

Hey Samiam. Lots of retired folks in the lakes region. I realize the vast majority of the summer labor is from young kids out of school, but is there a meaningful contribution from older folks looking for a gig to bring in a few extra bucks or stay busy?

Maybe check with FLL. He seems to have a lot of time on his hands with all those posts and all.

[fatlazyless]

http://www.nh.gov/labor/inspection/w...nimum-wage.htm

The New Hampshire minimum wage is $7.25/hour and a tipped employee "will receive a base rate from the employer of not less than 45 percent of the applicable minimum wage."

45% of $7.25 is $3.26/hour.

In the real restaurant, wait staff business here in the lakes region, the big question is naturally; "How much should I expect to be earning at this here restaurant job?"

Google this to read it: "Should New Hampshire freeze the tipped minimum wage?" ...... NH Business Review ..... April 25, 2021

[Flylady]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

http://www.nh.gov/labor/inspection/w...nimum-wage.htm

The New Hampshire minimum wage is $7.25/hour and a tipped employee "will receive a base rate from the employer of not less than 45 percent of the applicable minimum wage."

45% of $7.25 is $3.26/hour.

In the real restaurant, wait staff business here in the lakes region, the big question is naturally; "How much should I expect to be earning at this here restaurant job?"

Google this to read it: "Should New Hampshire freeze the tipped minimum wage?" ...... NH Business Review ..... April 25, 2021

So what rates of pay are being offered in the Lakes region to summer help? Seems to me as in everything else, low supply plus high demand =higher pay rates.

[tummyman]

My grandkids usually spend the summer here and have worked at a local food store. But the wages were terrible. They can make $13.50 /hr in MA and only get $7.25 here in NH. So they will get jobs there. If there were decent wages for the kids, they would all want to work here. I have 2 @ 16 and one @ 15 1/2. The young one can get a job at a food store but the wages are terrible. Problem is the wages.......

[Winilyme]

I don't think there's any question that the low wage compared to EVERY surrounding state results in a lot of potential labor going elsewhere. Businesses of course are free to pay what they want. So, if business A plans to pay $7.25/hour and business B $12.00/hour, we know who's going to have an easier time filling their positions (all other things being relatively equal).

The conundrum is that businesses will argue (accurately so in some cases) that increasing the minimum wage to something competitive with surrounding states will make it difficult for them to stay in business. Yet those same businesses will say they may go out of business if they can't fill their positions. From a legislative standpoint, I'm not sure what the middle ground is but from a business owners standpoint, I think you need to increase wages - at least during the bread and butter summer season - to try and fill those positions...and increase prices to some extent to cover that. Seems to me that the summer folks would support those increased costs. But, do you unwind the hourly wage you pay to your employees and reduce costs to your customers during the off season?

I'm assuming the problem isn't so bad during the off season when hours decrease and positions are filled with local employees who don't have the options that potential summer employees have. But, if I'm a 16-year plus old kid whose parents summer in the lakes region (or a college kid who's looking to travel anywhere for a good three-month job and a little adventure), I'm not going to opt for $7.25 in NH when I can easily get 30-40% or more than that elsewhere. Just like Tummyman's grandkids.

I'm glad I'm not a small business owner in the retail or hospitality industry. There doesn't seem to be any good answer.

[tis]

I don't think the amount of pay is the issue. We can't even get a qualified person to apply.

[WinnisquamZ]

As I have written before, families collecting section 8 housing in the area are allowed a limited income. If that limit was raised you would increase the availability of workers. Many don’t even try working at the risk of losing their housing. Same can be said for social security. Raise the limit a retired individual can earn and you could have many more re enter the workforce


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[TiltonBB]

As most people know, the marine trades are having banner years. There are good jobs at good wages available at almost every marina.

The more talent you have, the more you will make. Boat mechanics get paid well but even if you start just taking the shrink wrap off and washing boats there is a lot of work around.

For the right person, with the right attitude, it could become a career. Some of the marinas offer tuition reimbursement if you take classes at the NH Vocational Technical College.

Many of the marina jobs are full time all year. In past years, a lot of the summer help has left mid-August and that causes a hardship for a business that was counting on them.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Very bad for two reasons this year.
The large resorts and camps in the lakes region rely on H2B
and J1 students with seasonal visas for much of their summer help and they are not getting many this year so they have to draw on the local labor pool to fill summer jobs.
Also,the enhanced unemployment benefits which are in effect through september, are causing people to just stay home and not work.
We are considering closing evenings for the summer because we just don't have enough staff to cover the shifts.
People are getting out more and it's shaping up for a big recovery this summer so it's going to be a struggle for many in the hospitality industry

How very sad. I hope that you can figure a way to stay open evenings. How about a limited buffet, using the counter where people can now be seated, and eliminating that seating....and retaining outdoor tables, perhaps adding to those? Also, continue takeout with limited menu.
Come on, everyone...let’s have some creative ideas!

[fatlazyless]

Opened in May 2020, one year ago, how much does the new Market Basket in Plymouth NH tend to pay their employees? Big money Massachusetts is the home state for Market Basket, first store in Lowell in 1917 and now has a total of 84 stores with 51-Mass, 31-NH, and Maine-2. No question to me that it must pay more than the NH minimum of $7.25/hr while I do not know?

This Plymouth NH Market Basket store is totally brand new and it chose to NOT have any self-service check out stations which is very different than Hannaford and Walmart which are big with self-check-out.

What does Market Basket in Plymouth NH pay their new, first year employees and how many work at this one store? It seems like it is always pretty busy with customers in there, so what's the better job, at a Quasimodo ... ... restaurant or at a strong and steady Market ... ... Basket!

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Very bad for two reasons this year.
The large resorts and camps in the lakes region rely on H2B
and J1 students with seasonal visas for much of their summer help and they are not getting many this year so they have to draw on the local labor pool to fill summer jobs.
Also,the enhanced unemployment benefits which are in effect through september, are causing people to just stay home and not work.
We are considering closing evenings for the summer because we just don't have enough staff to cover the shifts.
People are getting out more and it's shaping up for a big recovery this summer so it's going to be a struggle for many in the hospitality industry

I am sorry to hear that, have you considered paying living wage to attract more employees ? That could be a solution.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

I am sorry to hear that, have you considered paying living wage to attract more employees ? That could be a solution.

I found that question to be a little insulting. What evidence do you have that they don't make a "living wage"? They do.

The wages paid to waitstaff are assumed to be part of their compensation and obviously they make additional money with tips. They do quite well because of the way they treat customers.

I am familiar with several of the employees at VK and the majority have worked there for many years. That includes people working in the kitchen.

Any substantial increase in wages would result in a corresponding increase in prices. That would affect the balance that has worked well for many years.

Good food, fair prices, and a great staff. One of the reasons VK was able to remain open during the past year was the fair pricing and the dedication of the staff.

The employees wouldn't continue to work there if they weren't treated well.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by tis

I don't think the amount of pay is the issue. We can't even get a qualified person to apply.

True...no one is even applying for jobs that pay $15 and up.
No one in the business that I know of is offering $7.25....it's almost a bidding war in the industry

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I found that question to be a little insulting. What evidence do you have that they don't make a "living wage"? They do.

I am not trying to insult you or anyone else, though would love to see you surviving at $7.25 or even $15.00 an hour. 15 * 40 = $ 600 – taxes.
You think that is enough for a family per week ? This is a general question and has nothing to do with VK.

[LoveLakeLife]

Why do you assume that waiters and waitresses have families to support? If they do, it’s their job to support the family, not the employer’s. The employer’s job is to make a profit, which includes keeping expenses down, including payroll, while providing a service. It’s a balancing act. Economics 101. The group has been talking about high school and college kids. Hopefully they don’t have kids yet. That would portend a deeper problem.


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[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

I am not trying to insult you or anyone else, though would love to see you surviving at $7.25 or even $15.00 an hour. 15 * 40 = $ 600 – taxes.
You think that is enough for a family per week ? This is a general question and has nothing to do with VK.

Your question was directed at the owner of the Village Kitchen. When you asked if he had considered paying a living wage that implied that his employees did not make a living wage.

As a general answer to your question: I have worked at low paying jobs in the past like a Dairy Queen and a two different gas stations. The wages there were not enough to survive on or raise a family. So I got some training and got better jobs and as years went by, did better and better.

If is not necessary for every job to pay a "living wage". Some jobs come with an opportunity for advancement and others just places to earn a little extra money.

People have choices and are free to better themselves in any way they see fit.

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Your question was directed at the owner of the Village Kitchen. When you asked if he had considered paying a living wage that implied that his employees did not make a living wage.

As a general answer to your question: I have worked at low paying jobs in the past like a Dairy Queen and a two different gas stations. The wages there were not enough to survive on or raise a family. So I got some training and got better jobs and as years went by, did better and better.

If is not necessary for every job to pay a "living wage". Some jobs come with an opportunity for advancement and others just places to earn a little extra money.

People have choices and are free to better themselves in any way they see fit.

You are ASSUMING the fact that SAMIAM is the owner of VK is a public knowledge. I was not aware of that until you pointed out. I do not know where VK is, I have no idea who SAMIAM is, have never been there. Probably will visit one of these years.

Agreed, not all jobs have to pay living wage, but paying someone $ 7.25 an hour should be considered an insult when a gallon of milk goes for $ 3.xx.

By the way, congratulations on bettering yourself. I think we all worked at McDonalds, BK when we were kids.
All I am trying to say is "Let's not try to take advantage of people", they should be paid honest days of pay for honest day of work.
This also goes for local tradesmen, handymen, charging outrages rates just because there is a shortage.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by tis

I don't think the amount of pay is the issue. We can't even get a qualified person to apply.

Outside a local Florida Captain D's restaurant, there's a sign offering a $100 "Application Bonus".

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

True...no one is even applying for jobs that pay $15 and up.
No one in the business that I know of is offering $7.25....it's almost a bidding war in the industry

Probably, in part, because with NH at $7.25, it's what potential employees assume they will get paid. Because MA pays $13.50, they assume that's what they will get paid. Those potential employees are kids that might otherwise summer in NH but stay home for a much higher wage, and college students that travel to wherever they assume they can get the best wage. And that isn't in NH.

It's probably a bidding war no matter what summer resort area you go to. It's just that in MA (or any other surrounding state), it starts at a higher price point.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

I am sorry to hear that, have you considered paying living wage to attract more employees ? That could be a solution.

That is not a fair statement at all!

Back in the mid 80's I worked as a bartender. I don't recall the hourly wage exactly but, as a "tipped employee" I was paid less than minimum wage. Perhaps 50% of Minimum wage/HR. The balance of my earnings was my tip money. If I recall correctly, the owner was responsible for making up the difference to equal minimum wage if my tips fell below the State Minimum.

On a Thurs, Fri, Sat night I would earn $200-$300 each night. So back in the 80's I earned between $600-$900 JUST IN TIPS on the weekends. Granted that was pre-tax. but to me, that alone is a "living wage".

[gillygirl]

It says a lot when Floriduh’s minimum wage is higher than NH.


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[BoatHouse]

Originally Posted by Winilyme

I don't think there's any question that the low wage compared to EVERY surrounding state results in a lot of potential labor going elsewhere. Businesses of course are free to pay what they want. So, if business A plans to pay $7.25/hour and business B $12.00/hour, we know who's going to have an easier time filling their positions (all other things being relatively equal).

The conundrum is that businesses will argue (accurately so in some cases) that increasing the minimum wage to something competitive with surrounding states will make it difficult for them to stay in business. Yet those same businesses will say they may go out of business if they can't fill their positions. From a legislative standpoint, I'm not sure what the middle ground is but from a business owners standpoint, I think you need to increase wages - at least during the bread and butter summer season - to try and fill those positions...and increase prices to some extent to cover that. Seems to me that the summer folks would support those increased costs. But, do you unwind the hourly wage you pay to your employees and reduce costs to your customers during the off season?

I'm assuming the problem isn't so bad during the off season when hours decrease and positions are filled with local employees who don't have the options that potential summer employees have. But, if I'm a 16-year plus old kid whose parents summer in the lakes region (or a college kid who's looking to travel anywhere for a good three-month job and a little adventure), I'm not going to opt for $7.25 in NH when I can easily get 30-40% or more than that elsewhere. Just like Tummyman's grandkids.

I'm glad I'm not a small business owner in the retail or hospitality industry. There doesn't seem to be any good answer.

What if the business keeps the hourly pay at $7.25/hour, but offers a bonus if the employee works 10-12 weeks?
For example - Bonus pay of $5/hour. An employee that works 30 hours/week for 12 weeks could earn $1,800 bonus. Pay 50% of the bonus after 1-2 weeks and remaining 50% after the 10-12 week period.

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by BoatHouse

What if the business keeps the hourly pay at $7.25/hour, but offers a bonus if the employee works 10-12 weeks?
For example - Bonus pay of $5/hour. An employee that works 30 hours/week for 12 weeks could earn $1,800 bonus. Pay 50% of the bonus after 1-2 weeks and remaining 50% after the 10-12 week period.

I think your idea is innovative. I'd certainly consider something like that. But I still feel if you can't get the workers there in the first place (from out of state), the local businesses offering a deal like that will simply steal an employee from other local businesses that aren't offering a deal like that. Good for one, not for the other. You're simply pushing the problem around.

What a deal like this doesn't solve is that NH is simply at a disadvantage given their extremely low minimum wage. Many of those relied upon to come into NH for the summer season are going to base their decision regarding where to work on the obvious minimum wage information that blares "NH is not even close to competitive".

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by BoatHouse

What if the business keeps the hourly pay at $7.25/hour, but offers a bonus if the employee works 10-12 weeks?
For example - Bonus pay of $5/hour. An employee that works 30 hours/week for 12 weeks could earn $1,800 bonus. Pay 50% of the bonus after 1-2 weeks and remaining 50% after the 10-12 week period.

I'm not a kid looking for a job but I wouldn't go for a deal like that. I would want my money every week, JMO.

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I'm not a kid looking for a job but I wouldn't go for a deal like that. I would want my money every week, JMO.

The kid could hire a lawyer for $1,800 to write up a contract.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by BoatHouse

What if the business keeps the hourly pay at $7.25/hour, but offers a bonus if the employee works 10-12 weeks?

For example - Bonus pay of $5/hour. An employee that works 30 hours/week for 12 weeks could earn $1,800 bonus. Pay 50% of the bonus after 1-2 weeks and remaining 50% after the 10-12 week period.

Terrific idea

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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Winilyme

The kid could hire a lawyer for $1,800 to write up a contract.

So after you give the lawyer $1,800 you end up with $7.25 an hour?

[thinkxingu]

Let's see: I could choose to work in MA and make $13+ without question or choose NH and jump through hoops to maybe make somewhere close?

The same issue exists, by the way, in the education field. Teachers on the border can drive 20 minutes to MA and make $10k+ more AND get a much better pension.

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[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by Biggd

So after you give the lawyer $1,800 you end up with $7.25 an hour?

I'm positive you know sarcasm when you read it - even though I didn't use a smiley face. My point in all this is that you can't fight city hall. While Boat's idea is innovative, it seems few business owners want to support a competitively higher wage regardless of how you end up paying it. Somehow there's a fear that they aren't going to survive if the minimum wage is raised. Yet here we are, because NH is uncompetitive with surrounding states, businesses are at risk of not surviving.

As someone pointed out above, few businesses are actually paying only $7.25/hour, yet the optics of them paying that courtesy of the 'minimum wage law compared to other states' is exasperating the problem with recruiting workers from those places. And therein lies the problem. During the summer you have many more jobs/hours, and a less-than-matching infiltration of temporary labor.

So, I don't see a widespread application of solutions like this unless they somehow bring in the laborers from outside NH that are finding more lucrative employment elsewhere.

[TiltonBB]

The fallacy in the discussion assumes that the businesses hiring in either state are only paying minimum wage. Sure there are some, but in the current market that is not the majority.

Local employers I am familiar with are paying quiet a bit more to get employees. I don't think that many people are working for minimum wage. Employees with marketable skills are getting more.

[Glendale Girl]

https://www.boston25news.com/news/he...KBOL6HEFKMFQY/

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by Biggd

So after you give the lawyer $1,800 you end up with $7.25 an hour?

ROLFMAO

Some people come up with the craziest ideas to save a penny.
If you hire someone, just pay them a reasonable rate.

[WinnisquamZ]

Pay maybe one reason, however, many businesses have said that no one is answering their ads for job openings.


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[TheTimeTraveler]

I wonder if any of these restaurants offer their employees a free meal during their shift as a recruiting tool in addition to their wages?

[MotorHead]

Supply and Demand, right?
Free Economy, right ?
Free market, right ?

Pay me $100.00 and hour and I will wait tables at your restaurant.
As ridiculous as this sounds, this is what the tradesmen are doing now.
You need a carpenter, electrician, plumber, you have to pay up.

Why not waiters and waitresses. LOL

[TiltonBB]

Minimum Wage?

Starting hourly pay rates for positions like lifeguards, park services and seasonal maintenance have been increased to $13-$15 per hour. Workers also receive perks, like a $100 referral bonus and season passes for them and up to three members of their family.

The free market. It's the American way!

https://www.wmur.com/article/water-c...oyees/36322793

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Minimum Wage?

Starting hourly pay rates for positions like lifeguards, park services and seasonal maintenance have been increased to $13-$15 per hour. Workers also receive perks, like a $100 referral bonus and season passes for them and up to three members of their family.

The free market. It's the American way!

https://www.wmur.com/article/water-c...oyees/36322793

The next section after your quote:

"Hehl said the lower minimum wage in New Hampshire has added to the hiring difficulties.

“The candidate pool in this area along the Seacoast is just not there for the type of team members that we’re looking to hire,” Hehl said. “So, we’ve got to dip on each side of the border into Maine and Massachusetts and once you get into that, you’re competing with a very different minimum wage.”

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[Billy Bob]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

Supply and Demand, right?
Free Economy, right ?
Free market, right ?

Pay me $100.00 and hour and I will wait tables at your restaurant.
As ridiculous as this sounds, this is what the tradesmen are doing now.
You need a carpenter, electrician, plumber, you have to pay up.

Why not waiters and waitresses. LOL

Well perhaps not $100 but the point of this thought is right on the mark. The minimum wage now has no connection with successful running a business. Threatening to close early because you can’t find help won’t get you the help you need. The local businesses need to review their business plans , adjust costs and prices to fit the new normal and price their product accordingly. That will result in bacon and eggs costing more then last year . Or hold the line and you will close your business.
I just hired 3 new receptionist employees, I will tell you I paid about a third more for these folks then I paid last year, I could have complained about the cause and the market but at the end of the day it’s pay or close

[SAMIAM]

FLL continually brings up the $7.25 minimum wage but
no one in business that I know of has even considered that in years.
I think the lowest rate being offered is in the $9 to $10 range for 14/16 year old kids without skills for a seasonal job for some extra $$
Full time year round applicants are getting $12/$15 even as a training wage and skilled staff is now in the $20's due to supply and demand.

[Biggd]

When the cost of living goes up it goes up for everyone. People making minimum wage aren't getting rich, they are just trying to survive. Just as the small business owner is trying to survive.
Wages are going up and prices will have to go up accordingly.
So when they report that inflation is under control, they are FOS!
Everyone is in the same situation so wages and prices will have to go up.

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

FLL continually brings up the $7.25 minimum wage but
no one in business that I know of has even considered that in years.
I think the lowest rate being offered is in the $9 to $10 range for 14/16 year old kids without skills for a seasonal job for some extra $$
Full time year round applicants are getting $12/$15 even as a training wage and skilled staff is now in the $20's due to supply and demand.

Who is FLL, there is no such user handle

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

Who is FLL, there is no such user handle

He's the most prolific poster on here. He's full of knowledge, among other things.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Minimum Wage?

Starting hourly pay rates for positions like lifeguards, park services and seasonal maintenance have been increased to $13-$15 per hour. Workers also receive perks, like a $100 referral bonus and season passes for them and up to three members of their family.

The free market. It's the American way!

https://www.wmur.com/article/water-c...oyees/36322793

Last two summers, 2019 & 2020, Laconia was unable to keep their two tall white life guard watch seats on Weirs Beach staffed with a life guard due to their low pay offered.

So this summer, 2021, Laconia has raised their offered life guard pay up to eleven dollars per hour.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Last two summers, 2019 & 2020, Laconia was unable to keep their two tall white life guard watch seats on Weirs Beach staffed with a life guard due to their low pay offered.

So this summer, 2021, Laconia has raised their offered life guard pay up to eleven dollars per hour.

Laconia’s lack of lifeguards has little to due with pay. More to due with the homeless population and others that make lifeguarding difficult here in Laconia. Those looking to lifeguard have many choices


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[tummyman]

I have a 15 1/2 year old grandson....he has no idea where to apply except for a local food store that said the wage would be $7.25. So yes, there are some not willing to do more. As a thought....why aren't businesses using the Forum Classified section to post jobs. It would be very helpful for younger kids !!!!

[tummyman]

And I just checked the Forum's job listings...not one single summer job posted.

[fatlazyless]

Just for a look-see, suggest he looks into working at the huge Market Basket in Plymouth NH to see what they would pay. Something psychic tells me it is much higher than $7.25?

Yes, the forum classified help wanted are totally no charge, free to post, including photographs so it could be a strong source ....... so, why not?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by tummyman

I have a 15 1/2 year old grandson....he has no idea where to apply except for a local food store that said the wage would be $7.25. So yes, there are some not willing to do more. As a thought....why aren't businesses using the Forum Classified section to post jobs. It would be very helpful for younger kids !!!!

Did he take the job?

Honestly, if the only job available to my progeny right now was a $7.25 food store, I'd advocate for skipping it and creating an original business or doing volunteer work, extracurriculars, etc.

In my eyes, $7.25 for an hour of work is criminal—I'd rather my kids rake or mow a yard for $20+ or not worry about the $50/week and invest in their community or education.

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[TheRoBoat]

I’m one of those “living wage guys”, but I don’t think any business owner is going to stay closed during the summer in the Lakes Region because they don’t want to pay their people fairly. That’s just leaving money on the table.

I don’t know SAMIAM, but he hasn’t survived and excelled this long without understanding exactly what he is doing. That probably goes for most business owners around the lake. Things changed. He doesn’t have a seasonal labor pool, and he’s not going to be getting one anytime soon.

Seasonal labor is either going to be homegrown or imported. There is no real homegrown seasonal labor anymore, which arguably focusses on HS and College kids, and young adults having some fun.

In what is actually a demonstration of success, it appears that most HS and college kids around the lake do not need the money that a summer job provides, or they have better alternatives. The “I worked my butt off so my kids don’t have to” situation is very real, everywhere.

That leaves importing labor, which leads to where are they going to live? Is there even a rental market for seasonal labor anymore? The rents for even a single room are and will be astronomical - if available. They can stay home in MA (or any state) and get free food and lodging from the parents and make a lot more money than in NH.

So, in the future, can an economy based on seasonal labor survive? If so, larger corporations are much better suited and positioned to do it than a local owner.

[Biggd]

The young kids today can make more money on line from the comforts of home and the aren't looking at the classifieds on this forum. Why would they want to bag groceries for $725 an hour?
By the way, the new term for employees now is "team members".

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by tummyman

As a thought....why aren't businesses using the Forum Classified section to post jobs. It would be very helpful for younger kids !!!!

The only reason a kid would visit this site is to troll us old folks.

[BoatHouse]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Let's see: I could choose to work in MA and make $13+ without question or choose NH and jump through hoops to maybe make somewhere close?

The same issue exists, by the way, in the education field. Teachers on the border can drive 20 minutes to MA and make $10k+ more AND get a much better pension.

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My 15 year old daughter has been looking for a job near our MA home. I have told her I will pay her not to work in MA so it does not interfere with my ability to go to the house on the lake. totally conflicts with my conservative views...

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by BoatHouse

My 15 year old daughter has been looking for a job near our MA home. I have told her I will pay her not to work in MA so it does not interfere with my ability to go to the house on the lake. totally conflicts with my conservative views...

When it comes to working, I'm conservative as well, so I might consider subsidizing the pay and/or require investment elsewhere, e.g. volunteerism, education, etc.

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[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

When it comes to working, I'm conservative as well, so I might consider subsidizing the pay and/or require investment elsewhere, e.g. volunteerism, education, etc.

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Wait....!!! Are you telling me that a TEACHER is willing to subsidize pay for education ????

[Heaven]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

I wonder if any of these restaurants offer their employees a free meal during their shift as a recruiting tool in addition to their wages?

And for the younger workers, unless they are up here with family, their housing expenses/commuting kills the option

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by BoatHouse

My 15 year old daughter has been looking for a job near our MA home. I have told her I will pay her not to work in MA so it does not interfere with my ability to go to the house on the lake. totally conflicts with my conservative views...

I feel your pain! My daughter is a few years older and I tried a similar trick, also telling myself it conflicted with my conservative views (not to be confused with my liberal political views, haha). Backfired--she got a job despite my best efforts to get her to just have fun with me at the lake. Spouted some sort of BS about it being important for her growth

[LoveLakeLife]

Sports leagues have teams. Employers have employees. Don’t give in to the ridiculous euphemisms. It’s used, no ore-owned. Hospital, not medical center. School, not education center. Courthouse, not justice center. Church, not worship center. Mall, not shopping center. City Hall, not municipal center. Pool, not aquatic center. Whorehouse, not transactional copulation center. lol Everyone just talk normal.


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[ApS]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

Sports leagues have teams. Employers have employees. Don’t give in to the ridiculous euphemisms. It’s used, no ore-owned. Hospital, not medical center. School, not education center. Courthouse, not justice center. Church, not worship center. Mall, not shopping center. City Hall, not municipal center. Pool, not aquatic center. Whorehouse, not transactional copulation center. lol Everyone just talk normal.

"Remember Normal?" is available emblazoned on a coffee mug or T-shirt.

Bolsheviks need not inquire.

[jeffk]

I get a chuckle over those that think a business can pay wages as demanded, no matter what they are.

In some areas, like around Winnipesaukee, there are simply not enough workers in the area to staff all the lower wage jobs for the summer months. Doubling wages might lure a few people into employment but not enough. The seasonal nature of the jobs is not attractive to those seeking a "living wage" but who plan to live longer than the tourist season.

Further, some jobs simply won't support such wages. If you walked up to Bailey's Bubble and found the cost of an ice cream cone at $20 because they had to pay crazy wages, would you buy one? Even higher paying jobs can be priced out of existence. Talk to auto workers who forced their wages so high that it pushed their jobs into automation and overseas.

The example of services for plumbing and electrical is also distorted. If the costs for those services is out of sight, I MUST pay for essential work but I will forego such services that are not essential. Unjustified labor costs drive away business.

Many people may hire people to come in to do house cleaning weekly, if the prices are reasonable. Raise wages excessively and the cost will preclude many people from using the service.

The point of all this is that there are limits on what can be paid for any job. Those limits are in constant flux. It's a component of our economic system. The people who understand this best and can respond best to changing local conditions are the business owners and employees IN THE AREA, not slow moving and obtuse state or federal governments.

[tis]

It's nice that there are still some people who understand economics.

[Biggd]

I find that people that own their own business understand more than just an employee. That will never change. A business owner will work as hard as possible to keep his business going. An employee will only work as hard as their compensation. It's human nature, if you're going to pay people more not to work than to go to work they are going to take the larger pay.

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[phoenix]

I agree many countries have found including us that when you keep extending unemployment benefits many people just don't bother looking . When we extended it for a year many people starting looking again as their benefits ran out . We are now adding $ 300 per week over and above what individual states pay. the max in NH is $427 plus $300 which can yield $727 per week. this is almost 40K per year and at least last year they made it tax free. So how much would you have to pay someone to work ? Only choice would be foreign workers. Miracle bought a couple of houses near their yard to house people they hire from outside the country. Samiam understands his business model better than most and knows because he has kept his prices down he attracts many locals( year round)who cant afford paying $25-50 per meal. You can have grilled haddock( my favorite Lakes region meal) for les that $30 for two tax and tip included .

[tis]

Originally Posted by phoenix

I agree many countries have found including us that when you keep extending unemployment benefits many people just don't bother looking . When we extended it for a year many people starting looking again as their benefits ran out . We are now adding $ 300 per week over and above what individual states pay. the max in NH is $427 plus $300 which can yield $727 per week. this is almost 40K per year and at least last year they made it tax free. So how much would you have to pay someone to work ? Only choice would be foreign workers. Miracle bought a couple of houses near their yard to house people they hire from outside the country. Samiam understands his business model better than most and knows because he has kept his prices down he attracts many locals( year round)who cant afford paying $25-50 per meal. You can have grilled haddock( my favorite Lakes region meal) for les that $30 for two tax and tip included .

Exactly why the government needs to mind their own business.

[gravy boat]

Recruiters and hiring managers look at gaps in employment on resumes and question the applicants about why they weren't working when there were jobs available. As recruiters for 25+ years each, we know a bit about this subject. No matter the age -- 17, 22, 35 -- you need to speak to why you weren't working.

We raised three daughters and always encouraged them to not be lazy or picky about summer jobs but to take a position to get the experience and work reference. It always has been -- and always will be -- better to be working in a lower paying job and get a work reference to help you get a better position than to not work at all. That won't change.

Let's face it -- nobody here has children or grandchildren they can't help support if the kid takes a lower paying job. We all live ON or near a lake and have boats and other toys -- we all share that information so nobody here can claim poverty or even close to it. Teach the kids and grandkids humility, to respect all levels on the totem pole by starting at the bottom and to show up, do their job, do it well and get a work reference when they leave.

GB

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

We all live ON or near a lake and have boats and other toys -- we all share that information so nobody here can claim poverty or even close to it.

Huh ?

Drove around town with the Chief of Police one afternoon. An old friend. He was doing courtesy checks on some.

Viewed cabins or shacks with no electricity or running water. Right here in the Lakes Region.

Not everyone has a well to do parent or grand parent - to toss them a new BMW or Volvo - now and then.

Elitism occasionally meanders through our cultural perspectives.

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I find that people that own their own business understand more than just an employee. That will never change. A business owner will work as hard as possible to keep his business going. An employee will only work as hard as their compensation. It's human nature, if you're going to pay people more not to work than to go to work they are going to take the larger pay.

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Regarding people that only work as hard as their compensation, I agree, that applies to many. Those folks are complaining 40 years later that they don't have the savings to retire. Those that do have the savings to retire are individuals that overcame human nature and busted their butt all throughout their careers to, not work as hard as their compensation, but to work harder than it. Doesn't take long for those individuals to be culled out for promotions by those that recognize their work ethic. Those that want to get ahead don't work for their current paycheck, they work for their future one.

[tis]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

Recruiters and hiring managers look at gaps in employment on resumes and question the applicants about why they weren't working when there were jobs available. As recruiters for 25+ years each, we know a bit about this subject. No matter the age -- 17, 22, 35 -- you need to speak to why you weren't working.

We raised three daughters and always encouraged them to not be lazy or picky about summer jobs but to take a position to get the experience and work reference. It always has been -- and always will be -- better to be working in a lower paying job and get a work reference to help you get a better position than to not work at all. That won't change.

Let's face it -- nobody here has children or grandchildren they can't help support if the kid takes a lower paying job. We all live ON or near a lake and have boats and other toys -- we all share that information so nobody here can claim poverty or even close to it. Teach the kids and grandkids humility, to respect all levels on the totem pole by starting at the bottom and to show up, do their job, do it well and get a work reference when they leave.

GB

I totally agree, I look at gaps in employment and people who move around every year or two. It doesn't look good on a resume. Also when the first question is: "How much does it pay?" it's a big negative for me. Even if it's a very high paying job, it's should never ever be the first question asked on the phone or at the interview. And you are right, what ever happened to kids starting at the bottom and working their way up? Most of us didn't start out having what we have now. It's good for you to feel you succeeded, to feel that sense of accomplishment and also to have pride.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by tis

I totally agree, I look at gaps in employment and people who move around every year or two. It doesn't look good on a resume. Also when the first question is: "How much does it pay?" it's a big negative for me. Even if it's a very high paying job, it's should never ever be the first question asked on the phone or at the interview. And you are right, what ever happened to kids starting at the bottom and working their way up? Most of us didn't start out having what we have now. It's good for you to feel you succeeded, to feel that sense of accomplishment and also to have pride.

I don't disagree that making pay the first question asked is tactless, but employers should post at least a range so people can know if it's even worth their time. When I was applying for teaching jobs, I interviewed at two private schools that ultimately told me the pay was sub-$30k because "teaching here is a mission, not a job." Every other school I'd interviewed at had clearly identified salaries (of $40k+).

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[CK5 Truck]

I keep seeing people make the claim that the minimum wage it too low, thats not the problem, its finding quality people who actually have developed some kind of work ethic. Perfect example go to McDonalds and ask for a McDouble plain and no cheese, 9 times out of 10 you will bring the sandwich back at least once for them to get it right, those are not workers those are drones who dont want to think or in some cases intelligence had left them years ago. IMO so much of this rests squarely on the shoulders of parents, telling their kids they are special and dont have to do this or that, they have turned their kids into adult toddlers who want and need everything done for them or handed to them. My youngest daughter who graduated from college with a psychology degree EARLY and is signed up for grad school works as a server making yes minimum wage but yet brings home $500 a week in the off season and often over $1000 in the summer all while having a baby a year ago and raising her virtually by herself. How does she do this? She values herself as does her employer. She gives 100% in whatever she does. Thats how people survive on minimum wage jobs, you become a valuable asset not a liability like the McDonalds worker or the lazy ass sitting home playing video games waiting for his/her government check. If you have one of those types taking up space in your home YOU are the real problem.

[Biggd]

This all comes down to education. This country has to put education first. Schools should be like a job, full day, then no home work. Free pre school and every kid must learn english. Our teachers need to be paid more and they need the support of parents and goverment. They have so many restrictions imposed on them now that they can't control their classrooms. I understand that education starts at home but many of these parents grew up without the tools to succeed so if they don't have them how do we expect them to teach their kids? I also think we need to promote the trades as much as we promote college. Not every kid needs to go to college to be productive and make a living.

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[swnoel]

This thread makes me laugh... it seems like the ones that complain most are the liberals preaching about a living wage and in the same breathe complain that it costs them so much to get others to do something for them! My grandson just got a job at Hannaford's stocking shelves for $12 hour. Who actually gets paid minimum wage in NH? I'm not talking about the food industry and their base pay. I have actually talked to waitresses in the past and everyone of them did not want $15 per hour... seems like they make way more money with tips. Some actually make $400 per shift!

[Biggd]

On a positive note, College grads are able to get good jobs right out of the gate. My grandson graduates this month and landed a great job starting in June.

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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by swnoel

This thread makes me laugh... it seems like the ones that complain most are the liberals preaching about a living wage and in the same breathe complain that it costs them so much to get others to do something for them! My grandson just got a job at Hannaford's stocking shelves for $12 hour. Who actually gets paid minimum wage in NH? I'm not talking about the food industry and their base pay. I have actually talked to waitresses in the past and everyone of them did not want $15 per hour... seems like they make way more money with tips. Some actually make $400 per shift!

Ya, it's only the liberals that complain about inflation.

[WinnisquamZ]

Maybe NH should take this same approach as Montana just did

GOP Montana Governor Offers Get Back to Work Bonuses, Cancels Federal Jobless Programs https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...less-programs/


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[swnoel]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Ya, it's only the liberals that complain about inflation.

I never mentioned a thing about inflation...

[Biggd]

Maybe I should have used "rising costs" instead of inflation for those that don't understand the relationship between the two.

Originally Posted by swnoel

I never mentioned a thing about inflation...

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by CK5 Truck

I keep seeing people make the claim that the minimum wage it too low, thats not the problem, its finding quality people who actually have developed some kind of work ethic. Perfect example go to McDonalds and ask for a McDouble plain and no cheese, 9 times out of 10 you will bring the sandwich back at least once for them to get it right, those are not workers those are drones who dont want to think or in some cases intelligence had left them years ago. IMO so much of this rests squarely on the shoulders of parents, telling their kids they are special and dont have to do this or that, they have turned their kids into adult toddlers who want and need everything done for them or handed to them. My youngest daughter who graduated from college with a psychology degree EARLY and is signed up for grad school works as a server making yes minimum wage but yet brings home $500 a week in the off season and often over $1000 in the summer all while having a baby a year ago and raising her virtually by herself. How does she do this? She values herself as does her employer. She gives 100% in whatever she does. Thats how people survive on minimum wage jobs, you become a valuable asset not a liability like the McDonalds worker or the lazy ass sitting home playing video games waiting for his/her government check. If you have one of those types taking up space in your home YOU are the real problem.

This is a great story, and I'm sure your daughter is terrific. But she is not working for minimum wage, she's working for minimum wage plus tips.

The minimum wage rules do not apply to people who earn tips. So when we're talking about the minimum wage going to $10/hour, we're talking about folks who work as untipped employees, such as cooks and dishwashers.

As I'm sure some of our restaurant pros have seen, waiters and waitresses have done pretty well over the years with income. Every time the price of meals goes up, their tips go up. But kitchen staff, who do not earn tips, have seen their earning power decline.

[fatlazyless]

With the very short lived summer beach session only going from June 26 to the middle of August, seven weeks time, it's pretty much impossible to hire suitable lifeguards for the large sandy beach swim area at Weirs Beach.

May 7, Laconia Daily Sun article: "Lifeguards only at Bond Beach this summer." Bond Beach is on Lake Opechee so locals who want a swim area with lifeguards present can go swim there. This article with five short paragraphs explains the impossible situation for hiring lifeguards at the local beaches.

It's impossible ..... www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKQ9-_ZgB4 ...... sung by Perry Como-1970

So ...... for those in the know ....... Bond Beach on Lake Opechee WILL have life guards ....... and Opechee Park also on Lake Opechee, Weirs Beach on Lake Winnipesaukee, and Bartlett Beach on Lake Winnisquam will NOT have life guards.

Yes-life guards ...... or NO-life guards ...... how does this change the overall beach experience in terms of everything ..... swim safety, beach condition, litter, raking the beach, what happens at the beach? ....... www.laconianh.gov/208/Beaches ..... "Bond Beach is a RESIDENT and TAXPAYER only beach and passes must be acquired from the City Clerks office in order to enter. The cost is $15 for one pass and $25 for two. This pass will allow you to park at Weirs Beach parking lot for FREE, provided there is space available."

[swnoel]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

But kitchen staff, who do not earn tips, have seen their earning power decline.

Maybe you could give us some examples of what the area kitchen staff make? It's hard for me to believe there are adults that would work for minimum or low wage as competent cooks and chefs. Looking forward to the data you have as numbers don't lie...

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by swnoel

Maybe you could give us some examples of what the area kitchen staff make? It's hard for me to believe there are adults that would work for minimum or low wage as competent cooks and chefs. Looking forward to the data you have as numbers don't lie...

Kind of weird that you expect a person to have data on NH restaurant pay?

But for those without some sort of chip on their shoulder, and genuine interest in the issue....

Here's a quote from Danny Meyer, owner of Shake Shack, on the issue he saw at his full service restaurants, describing the dynamic I cited of waiters doing well with tips while cooks' pay stagnated:

“The gap between what the kitchen and dining room workers make has grown by leaps and bounds,” Mr. Meyer said. During his 30 years in the business, he said, “kitchen income has gone up no more than 25 percent. Meanwhile, dining room pay has gone up 200 percent.”

This was from a NY Times article a few years back. His effort to eliminate tipping ultimately failed (for the reasons we might expect);

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/d...s-no-tips.html

[TheRoBoat]

Zuni Cafe is a very popular restaurant in SF.

https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/...e-16148343.php

[Descant]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Kind of weird that you expect a person to have data on NH restaurant pay?

But for those without some sort of chip on their shoulder, and genuine interest in the issue....

Here's a quote from Danny Meyer, owner of Shake Shack, on the issue he saw at his full service restaurants, describing the dynamic I cited of waiters doing well with tips while cooks' pay stagnated:

“The gap between what the kitchen and dining room workers make has grown by leaps and bounds,” Mr. Meyer said. During his 30 years in the business, he said, “kitchen income has gone up no more than 25 percent. Meanwhile, dining room pay has gone up 200 percent.”

This was from a NY Times article a few years back. His effort to eliminate tipping ultimately failed (for the reasons we might expect);

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/d...s-no-tips.html

That's a pretty old quote, from a market that is unlike NH and related to a "no tipping" issue. I would suggest that in the last year or two, kitchen staff pay remained steady, per hour worked. Waitstaff, depending on tips from 50 customers a shift were reduced to tips from, say, 12.5 customers as capacity was reduced, or transferred to drive-up. A number of different scenarios were discussed in these pages a year ago.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Descant

That's a pretty old quote, from a market that is unlike NH and related to a "no tipping" issue. I would suggest that in the last year or two, kitchen staff pay remained steady, per hour worked. Waitstaff, depending on tips from 50 customers a shift were reduced to tips from, say, 12.5 customers as capacity was reduced, or transferred to drive-up. A number of different scenarios were discussed in these pages a year ago.

Yes--it's an old quote and not related to covid as the issues you point out are. But it is an accurate description of how low wage labor in America has been hammered over the past several decades (less than 1% increase per year in this example). At some point, this leaves folks not wanting to work.

[TheRoBoat]

There was an article in the Daily Sun on Thursday about this issue. In the article, various businesses stated how many employees they were short.

Is there an estimate, or could someone with knowledge make a guess, as to the total number of jobs in the Lakes Region that are going unfilled this summer?

[Descant]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Yes--it's an old quote and not related to covid as the issues you point out are. But it is an accurate description of how low wage labor in America has been hammered over the past several decades (less than 1% increase per year in this example). At some point, this leaves folks not wanting to work.

I think we're seeing a different kind of eating out. When I got my first restaurant job, they trained me to be a short order cook and cook's assistant. I was sixteen; there were bunches of small family run, seasonal restaurants and motels around the area. The motels went condo and people either BBQ'd at the condo, or looked for more upscale dining. Both of those opportunities for kids to get some experience are gone. The community colleges and UNH have, I believe, thriving schools for culinary arts and hospitality, but again, aimed at a more refined experience. Over the same time HS and college sports started backing things up into mid-August. I don't think ill of any employer who is reluctant, in a seasonal business, to hire somebody who wants a week's vacation and then has to leave on August 15. And, nobody needs the money anymore. Whose kid do you know who is "working his way" through college? Easy student loans and no collateral, and politicians who promise loan forgiveness.

[camp guy]

I think, Descant, that you have hit the high points, and each of them ,or all, apply to some, if not all, local employers. I do think, though, that these conditions are not knew, not caused by COVID, but have been in the making for a number of years.

Young people today are just not interested in working a summer job. So, when they do enter the labor market, and their perspective employer asks them if they have any experience, they are at a loss for what to say. Most employers employing beginning workers aren't expecting to hire a trained person, but they do hope to hire someone who has some level of experience in just being an employee.

Sadly, that's not happening. Because of this circumstance, some employees are finding themselves caught in an unpleasant dynamic wherein they have education, but no experience, only can find an entry-level job, but, have real-world expenses that an entry-level job won't cover. At some point in time the government bail outs will stop and then hard, cold reality will kick in.

My advice to someone looking for a job - take whatever comes along and do your best, and keep moving up from there.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by camp guy

I think, Descant, that you have hit the high points, and each of them ,or all, apply to some, if not all, local employers. I do think, though, that these conditions are not knew, not caused by COVID, but have been in the making for a number of years.

Young people today are just not interested in working a summer job. So, when they do enter the labor market, and their perspective employer asks them if they have any experience, they are at a loss for what to say. Most employers employing beginning workers aren't expecting to hire a trained person, but they do hope to hire someone who has some level of experience in just being an employee.

Sadly, that's not happening. Because of this circumstance, some employees are finding themselves caught in an unpleasant dynamic wherein they have education, but no experience, only can find an entry-level job, but, have real-world expenses that an entry-level job won't cover. At some point in time the government bail outs will stop and then hard, cold reality will kick in.

My advice to someone looking for a job - take whatever comes along and do your best, and keep moving up from there.

Agreed--it's not just covid, but that's an easy thing to point to, especially as it it very quickly. The other things under discussion, as you note, have been gradual.

For young folks looking for experience for their resume: my first job out of school, I worked for my uncle. He's still hiring, men and women. Training of all sorts, clothing, food and housing allowance. College tuition and health plans unmatched. 30 days vacation--not this two weeks to start and earn more. When I was ready to leave and the job market was thin, he repeatedly hired me back as an instructor for 25 days at a time. A very kind employer, in my experience, and well regarded on my resume.

[MotorHead]

So we went to Jon's Roast Beef for lunch today, delicious as always.
Fully staffed, gentlemen at the register must have been 65+, good for him.
Waitress was in her 30's. (I am trying to make a point here, get it - No kids)

How is it that some places find employees and others can't.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

So we went to John's Roast Beef for lunch today, delicious as always.

Fully staffed, gentlemen at the register must have been 65+, good for him.

Waitress was in her 30's. (I am trying to make a point here, get it)

How is it that some places find employees and others can't.

My ex works at Jon’s part time at the register . She loves it there people are extremely nice pay is good not great but well over minimum wage.


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[swnoel]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Kind of weird that you expect a person to have data on NH restaurant pay?

But for those without some sort of chip on their shoulder, and genuine interest in the issue....

Here's a quote from Danny Meyer, owner of Shake Shack, on the issue he saw at his full service restaurants, describing the dynamic I cited of waiters doing well with tips while cooks' pay stagnated:

“The gap between what the kitchen and dining room workers make has grown by leaps and bounds,” Mr. Meyer said. During his 30 years in the business, he said, “kitchen income has gone up no more than 25 percent. Meanwhile, dining room pay has gone up 200 percent.”

This was from a NY Times article a few years back. His effort to eliminate tipping ultimately failed (for the reasons we might expect);

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/d...s-no-tips.html

You made a generalized statement about kitchen workers and I only asked where you got your data from and was interested.

[Heaven]

I understand that some hotels around the lake are going to extended stay options because they haven't the staff to do the room turnovers daily.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Heaven

I understand that some hotels around the lake are going to extended stay options because they haven't the staff to do the room turnovers daily.

Won't be long before hotel room clean ups will be self service.

[phoenix]

i haven't stayed a lot over last couple of years but when I have there has been no room service. If you want towels you call up and they leave outside your door. they only cleaned rooms between guests

[Shreddy]

Don't forget that the bulk of discussion revolves around Gen Z and even millennials who all but rely on social media. Instagram and TikTok have provided a platform for much of these generations to focus. Becoming an influencer with many followers whether it be Instagram, TikTok, Youtube, OF, etc. can pay crazy and I mean CRAZY amounts of money.

I'll also say with social media such as reddit, some of these kids are getting inherently smarter/educated (if you want to disagree, fine), but understand that they're the one's popping meme stocks and making THOUSANDS by undermining the market as well. There's a reason they're called Meme stocks. Point is, they're learning things far more important than certain things a classroom will ever teach them. No, not all get it and many will lose, but do some research and understand that they're not all just looking for handouts (yes, there are many that are too) just looking for a different way to work more efficiently to make more money than old school manual labor.