Energy alternatives

Kamper · 07-24-2005, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

last year it used to be $12 to fill up our jet ski now it is $24.

I'm thinking of changing to a sailboat.

PROPELLER · 07-26-2005, 10:45 AM

Sails that must be replaced are also expensive. It may not be as cheap to sail as you think.

ApS · 07-28-2005, 08:47 AM

With Winnipesaukee's short seasons, I continue to use my Tornado's original dacron sails, which were used in the 1967 Olympic Games in Montréal. (And are marked with the official five-ring World Olympics inspection seal).

While the sails (and hulls, for that matter) are no longer "Olympics-competitive", word has gotten out:

Quote:

"...The Tornado catamaran is...the fastest Olympic-class boat. It is possible for the speed of the catamaran to exceed the speed of the wind, reaching a maximum velocity of 30 knots..." http://smh.com.au/olympics/sailing/about/

Now if I can just stop breaking the hulls!

PROPELLER · 07-28-2005, 10:56 AM

Don't you mean the 1976 Montreal games? Also, how often do you sail? Someone who sails 2-3 day a week will wear out sails a lot soon than someone who sails once a month.

I took a ride on a sailboat out of Boothbay Harbor 2 years ago. This subject came up. The owner of the sail boat said he must replace his sails every 5-6 years at the cost of $10,000 - $12,000. That would buy an awful lot of gas even at todays prices.

Obviously, he gets an awful lot of use out of the sails taking customers out for 2 hours at a time as many as 3-4 times a day every day during their busy season. He commented it would be much cheaper if he just used his engine instead. But what fun would that be.

trfour · 07-28-2005, 06:04 PM

Require much higher maintainence costs. Salt water and the air obove, has a sandpaper effect on just about everything. Lots of aluminum is used to keep weight down, water manifolds for coolng engines, outdrives and such. Salt eats these things like popcorn and even stainless steel water cooled headers! Rule of thumb in go fast boats that are used exclusivly in salt water, trade them in every two years....

" PLEASE, get your go fast boat certified safe and also take a safe boating course, befor bringing it here to Lake Winnipesaukee ! "

Love,
T.

Lakewinniboater · 07-29-2005, 10:18 AM

Just curious. How did a Sails conversation turn on a dime into anything to do with Go Fast Boats??

Kamper · 07-29-2005, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakewinniboater

Just curious. How did a Sails conversation turn on a dime into anything to do with Go Fast Boats??

Maybe he meant to attach that to another thread. I know I meant my comment to be as a reply not a new thread. So many buttons, so few brains...

Lakewinniboater · 07-29-2005, 11:42 AM

I will certainly take it as an explanation once.

Mee-n-Mac · 08-03-2005, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PROPELLER

{snip} I took a ride on a sailboat out of Boothbay Harbor 2 years ago. This subject came up. The owner of the sail boat said he must replace his sails every 5-6 years at the cost of $10,000 - $12,000. That would buy an awful lot of gas even at todays prices.

Sorry to ressurect an old thread but I didn't have time to ask this before. I recall (dimly) that one of J. Cousteau's ships had some form of a mast/sail thingee(s). There was no canvas sail or boom, just a tower that had a slot in it and this somehow generated lift. Am I remembering this correctly and if so, what was it called. Seemed like this would eliminate a lot of woes but since I've not seen the like on any other sailboat I have to believe it either didn't work very well or .... ???

SIKSUKR · 08-04-2005, 08:10 AM

M@M,That boat had a hardsail that was basically shaped like an airplane wing.It was fat on the leading edge and tapered to nothing on the trailing edge.I'll try to find a picture of it and post it here.

Kamper · 08-04-2005, 11:11 AM

I remember another expiriment in the mid '70s. A vertical cylinder was rotated by a small motor. I believe lift was generated onthe upwind side. It might have been "Popular Mechanics."

It was tested as a stand-alone propulsion source and also improved fuel economy on a fishing trawler it was installed on.

ApS · 08-05-2005, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PROPELLER

"...Don't you mean the 1976 Montreal games? Also, how often do you sail? Someone who sails 2-3 day a week will wear out sails a lot soon than someone who sails once a month..."

You're correct. Montreal had an "Expo" in 1967, and my class of boat didn't exist in 1967. (I didn't go, but there's this family "Expo" souvenir mug that got me sidetracked).

I don't sail Winnipesaukee as much as I did: The criteria have changed.

1) No sailing on weekends.
2) No sailing without winds between 3 and 15 knots (mostly single-handed sailing -- challenging as it is already).
3) No sailing on cloudy days. (Can't use my sun-signal mirror to ward off the occasional Budweiser-numbed powerboater).

I think "your" captain has to replace sails frequently because of "roller-reefing", which exposes the same part of the sail to sun and ozone, and because of occasional strong winds that flap his non-battened sails. (Tornadoes have battened sails).

I'm never very many miles from the dock and "call it a day" when the cumulus start building -- something you can't always do well offshore.

However, weekdays are OK. After breakfast, and with a trusty apple, I can spend six hours on a good day "on the move". I mean, why stop boating?

Regarding Cousteau's ship: He had a pair of large vertical tubes. They had an inner drum which was powered. That motion (Flettner-Effect) brought some economy to an already diesel-powered ship.

There are "hard-sails", mostly used on world-record sailcraft, iceboats, and experimental multi-hulls. I don't think they've broken the 50-knot speed record yet for sailboats.

I just read an account of a Navy submarine captain whose fuel supply got contaminated and was stranded 100 miles off Hilo, Hawaii. He ordered the crew's canvas hammocks stitched together to make a jib and mainsail, and sailed the sub to Pearl Harbor! Oops...OT -- once again.
http://www.usni.org/navalhistory/nh2004toc.htm (Title at August 2004).

Quote:

Originally Posted by PROPELLER

"...He commented it would be much cheaper if he just used his engine instead. But what fun would that be...?"

Everybody reacts the same way when the engine is finally cut -- the vibration stops -- and the boat continues along under sail...quietly...with just a "chuckle" from the bow.

07-28-2005, 06:04 PM	#5
trfour Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Lakes, Central NH. and Dallas/Fort Worth TX. Posts: 3,694 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 3,069 Thanked 472 Times in 236 Posts	Boating, in salt water will.... Require much higher maintainence costs. Salt water and the air obove, has a sandpaper effect on just about everything. Lots of aluminum is used to keep weight down, water manifolds for coolng engines, outdrives and such. Salt eats these things like popcorn and even stainless steel water cooled headers! Rule of thumb in go fast boats that are used exclusivly in salt water, trade them in every two years.... " PLEASE, get your go fast boat certified safe and also take a safe boating course, befor bringing it here to Lake Winnipesaukee ! " Love, T. __________________ *trfour* Always Remember, The Best Safety Device In The Boat, or on a PWC Snowmobile etc., Is YOU! Safe sledding tips and much more; http://www.snowmobile.org/snowmobiling-safety.html Last edited by trfour; 07-28-2005 at 06:18 PM. Reason: A little CRS, over here.

07-29-2005, 10:18 AM	#6
Lakewinniboater Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Westford, MA and Alton Bay, NH Posts: 225 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	hhhhmmmm Just curious. How did a Sails conversation turn on a dime into anything to do with Go Fast Boats?? __________________ Wendy "Wasn't Me!"

07-29-2005, 11:42 AM	#8
Lakewinniboater Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Westford, MA and Alton Bay, NH Posts: 225 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Could be..... I will certainly take it as an explanation once. __________________ Wendy "Wasn't Me!"

08-04-2005, 08:10 AM	#10
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	M@M,That boat had a hardsail that was basically shaped like an airplane wing.It was fat on the leading edge and tapered to nothing on the trailing edge.I'll try to find a picture of it and post it here. __________________ SIKSUKR

08-04-2005, 11:11 AM	#11
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,297 Thanks: 67 Thanked 166 Times in 126 Posts	Hardsails I remember another expiriment in the mid '70s. A vertical cylinder was rotated by a small motor. I believe lift was generated onthe upwind side. It might have been "Popular Mechanics." It was tested as a stand-alone propulsion source and also improved fuel economy on a fishing trawler it was installed on.

07-26-2005, 10:45 AM	#2
PROPELLER Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 340 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sails that must be replaced are also expensive. It may not be as cheap to sail as you think.

07-28-2005, 10:56 AM	#4
PROPELLER Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 340 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Don't you mean the 1976 Montreal games? Also, how often do you sail? Someone who sails 2-3 day a week will wear out sails a lot soon than someone who sails once a month. I took a ride on a sailboat out of Boothbay Harbor 2 years ago. This subject came up. The owner of the sail boat said he must replace his sails every 5-6 years at the cost of $10,000 - $12,000. That would buy an awful lot of gas even at todays prices. Obviously, he gets an awful lot of use out of the sails taking customers out for 2 hours at a time as many as 3-4 times a day every day during their busy season. He commented it would be much cheaper if he just used his engine instead. But what fun would that be.