West Alton Marina Experience

[fpartri497]

I just last Mth. signed on with WAM. for the 07 season full package they explained very carefully to me the entire program and I am very happy. my question would be , why would you want to go elsewhere for service? I was at parker marine for the last eight years and they did all my maintaince on my three boats. I wouldnt think of going elsewhere for service except at the marina where i have a slip.

[Airwaves]

I guess my only questions deal with the contract that you signed (assuming there was one).
Did it state that you had to have your boat serviced at WAM?
Did it address the issue at all?
What did the clause regarding termination of your contract say?

As for wanting to have your boat serviced at a marina other than the one where you have a slip, I go with the service department that does the best job at the best price and if that is somewhere other than where you tie up...

[jrc]

I doubt they broke a contract, Most slip contract are for a season. They really don't need a reason not to renew, but they gave one: didn't make enough money.

I agree 100% on service. It's really tough to find a mechanic that you trust, I would hate to give one up just to keep a slip. No disrespect intended to the WAM service people, I've never used them.

[The Worm]

I'm sure WAM has a long list of people waiting for slip rentals so they are able to selectively choose who they want to rent to based on $$$$$$. Good marine techs are hard to find, and with such a short season they need to make sure they bring in enough work to retain talented employees. This same theory is applied at private country clubs where you have to pay a monthy bar/restaurant tab whether you use it or not, purely money driven to maintain staff.

[AMekler]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

I guess my only questions deal with the contract that you signed (assuming there was one).
Did it state that you had to have your boat serviced at WAM?
Did it address the issue at all?
What did the clause regarding termination of your contract say?

As for wanting to have your boat serviced at a marina other than the one where you have a slip, I go with the service department that does the best job at the best price and if that is somewhere other than where you tie up...

the contract did not mention service. my boat was the only inboard in the marina. i posted this note to warn other boaters of the practice of this marina.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by The Worm:

I'm sure WAM has a long list of people waiting for slip rentals so they are able to selectively choose who they want to rent to based on $$$$$$. Good marine techs are hard to find, and with such a short season they need to make sure they bring in enough work to retain talented employees. This same theory is applied at private country clubs where you have to pay a monthy bar/restaurant tab whether you use it or not, purely money driven to maintain staff.

I would agree except that when you join a private country club that requires you spend X amount of money a month you know that going in. From what AMekler posted the requirement to have his boat serviced at WAM was not in the contract and not mentioned verbally. Based on that fact I will avoid doing business with them.

[ThePlut]

When I got put on WAM's waiting list last year, it mentioned the winter storage, but not a all service requirement. The service requirement is definitely a deal breaker for me, I was considering getting on the list again this year, but no longer. Requiring service also means they don't have to be competitive on rates or cost. That doesn't seem right to me.

Are you sure it's *all* service and not just winterization/summerization? I can see that falling into the "winter storage".

The contract did mention that you have to have a boat < 10 years old to be on the waiting list, suggesting to me that they wanted new(er) boats. Most new boats come with a warrantee, why would you bring a boat under warrantee to anyone other than the selling dealer regardless of where you slip??

Well it's their pool, I guess they can decide who swims in it, and as long as they have people agreeing to their terms, no motivation to change.

I wouldn't buy a car from a car dealer that required me to use him for service.

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by ThePlut

I wouldn't buy a car from a car dealer that required me to use him for service.

Actually, there are some new car dealers that will give you a hard time on warranty work if you didn't buy the car from them.

There is a new boat dealer on the lake that only does warranty work on boats they sell.

WAM is in the service industry. If they can fill their slips with boats that they service, winterize, store and fit out each season, that is only good business. A waiting list for slips reinforces their position.

[Alton Bay Resident]

Like it or not… they can set up any written or unwritten rules, change them as they see fit as long as they have ‘others’ standing inline. I myself think the mandate for winter storage and service being done by WAM only SUCKS! and I’m glad I’m not there or based upon the available alternatives standing inline. Just my opinion…. (not right or wrong).

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by NightWing

{snip} WAM is in the service industry. If they can fill their slips with boats that they service, winterize, store and fit out each season, that is only good business. A waiting list for slips reinforces their position.

I'd agree that it's WAM's business to do with what they want re: slips and service but not putting it (a stipulation for service) in the contract and letting the client know upfront is a diservice to both parties. AMekler is right to be peeved. Where's the dividing line ? Does a "Wammer" get to wax his/her own boat ? Change the oil ? Replace a prop ? How would they know ?

[Rinkerguy]

I became a member of WAM last year

I let them winterize the motor, change the motor and drive lub
I closed the domestics, acid washed, waxed and plan to bottom paint myself.
Never had an issue w/ them.

My only observation is that they do discourage older boats ... call it age discrimination if you want. That may be the issue here.

Just my $.02

[NightWing]

I was a member of WAM years ago, but I can't remember their exact policy, which might even be different today.

Before WAM is poorly spoken of any more, I think someone should either contact them to ask their policy or perhaps a current member could post the gist of their WAM contract.

I remember that winter storage would assure a summer slip and that summer fit-out and winter prep were required to be done by them. As far as any other work, I don't believe that was mentioned.

Stop and think how winter prep is done in marinas. Lots of people want to leave their boats in as long as possible. That means that boats can't be winterized and prepped for storage in a timely fashion. The shop will be getting ready for shutdown and they may have hundreds of boats to deal with. Having to leave a boat out because the owner hasn't prepped it is a not in favor of the marina. No mechanic wants to have to chop ice off a hull to clean it.

Come springtime, most boaters want their boats in as soon as ice is out. What happens if some DIY boats aren't ready to get slipped because they haven't been serviced in time. It can create havoc.

I say let them do the winter/summer service and be comfortable that your slip and storage rights are maintained.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by NightWing

Before WAM is poorly spoken of any more, I think someone should either contact them to ask their policy or perhaps a current member could post the gist of their WAM contract.

I remember that winter storage would assure a summer slip and that summer fit-out and winter prep were required to be done by them. As far as any other work, I don't believe that was mentioned.

I think Nightwing hit the nail on the head here. I understand why someone would be peeved if there slip was taken out from under Them. But if it is in the contract then there is no arguement here.

AMelker, look at the fine print in your contract.

Although I would call it a shady practice, I can imagine a salesman forgetting to mention something like winterizing having to be done by them, when a contract was being signed. After all they want the slip fee first and formost.

[AMekler]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I think Nightwing hit the nail on the head here. I understand why someone would be peeved if there slip was taken out from under Them. But if it is in the contract then there is no arguement here.

AMelker, look at the fine print in your contract.

Although I would call it a shady practice, I can imagine a salesman forgetting to mention something like winterizing having to be done by them, when a contract was being signed. After all they want the slip fee first and formost.

my boat was an inboard.(Supra) it could not be placed on rack storage. therefore it was stored on my trailer(at WAM and i paid winter storage fees) no time during my 3 three years there did anyone say i had to have my service done by them. i prefered to have my service done by a mechanic who new the boat(Roger Bretton at Silver Sands Marina).
When I got the letter from Brian(owner of WAM) saying i was not being offered a slip for next year there was no reason given. when I called to ask why he told me that it was because i did not use his service department.
A.Mekler

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by AMekler

my boat was an inboard.(Supra) it could not be placed on rack storage. therefore it was stored on my trailer(at WAM and i paid winter storage fees) no time during my 3 three years there did anyone say i had to have my service done by them. i prefered to have my service done by a mechanic who new the boat(Roger Bretton at Silver Sands Marina).
When I got the letter from Brian(owner of WAM) saying i was not being offered a slip for next year there was no reason given. when I called to ask why he told me that it was because i did not use his service department.
A.Mekler

Time for Brian to come forth.

[Rocky]

Originally Posted by Rinkerguy

I became a member of WAM last year

I let them winterize the motor, change the motor and drive lub
I closed the domestics, acid washed, waxed and plan to bottom paint myself.
Never had an issue w/ them.

My only observation is that they do discourage older boats ... call it age discrimination if you want. That may be the issue here.

Just my $.02

Do they expect you to bye a new boat every 10 yrs. If you ask me it is being very discrimitive. Why would you want to rent from them knowing that some day they are going to ask you to leave because your boat that you have worked hard for is to old!!!

[upthesaukee]

My boat is a 96 Sunbird bowrider. It will certainly be 11 years old for the ensuing season. I was sent out my decommissioning contract and my storage/dockage contract. thus they do not seem to care about a boat aging gracefully with them .

In all honesty, I chose not to renew with WAM this year, but not for any reasons dealing with them. I was simply looking for a less expensive place to dock my boat and thus keep down the cost of boating. I was able to do that. If I had a boat that was larger and/or something that I spent time on the weekends or vacations, sleeping etc., I would not even be having this conversation. Unfortunately, I did not have the need to utilize all that WAM has to offer for amenities such as they bath houses and the ability to have folks stay (camp) at the marina for next to nothing. I have appreciated my stay at WAM, made friends along the way, and if situations change, I would certainly have no problem contacting WAM about getting back in.

With no thought one way or the other regarding the original poster and his plight, and not knowing both sides (as others have recently stated), I would simply have to say until you (we) (me) heard both sides, rash judgements should not be made.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Rinkerguy

I became a member of WAM last year

I let them winterize the motor, change the motor and drive lub
I closed the domestics, acid washed, waxed and plan to bottom paint myself.
Never had an issue w/ them.

My only observation is that they do discourage older boats ... call it age discrimination if you want. That may be the issue here.

This pic of 2006 does not exemplify said discouragement. Seems like all are welcomed at WAM.

[Lakewinniboater]

some of the older boats are WAM owners and family members. However, there was 2 older BUT refurbished wooden boats there last year.

WAM will allow just about anyone as long as they pay their bills, abide by the rules and are courteous to other members and management.

I did give up my slip now that I have one at our home. However, I would still highly recommend WAM. There are a few members that do nothing but complain and look down on others (if you are up past 10:30 and under 55)..... however, they have been there for years and simply like to B****.

Over all.... great marina, very nice owners and members, as well as, very new and clean amenities!!!

[John E]

I wonder if there is some other reason for them not offering the slip.

I don't disagree that they have a bottom line to meet and that service plays a part.

Maybe they could offer 2 rates for slips. One rate if you sign a service contract and another if you don't.

Back to the plumber analogy. I'm an electrical contractor. If a customer wants to supply their own materials, fine. But since my business is structured so as to make a profit on material, the labor could not be the same if customer is supplying material.

[RLW]

Originally Posted by John E

Back to the plumber analogy. I'm an electrical contractor. If a customer wants to supply their own materials, fine. But since my business is structured so as to make a profit on material, the labor could not be the same if customer is supplying material.

Don't they lose the warranty on the parts also??? If part breaks they have to replace it and get charged by you for the labor to take it out and put the new one in???

[John E]

Originally Posted by RLW

Don't they lose the warranty on the parts also??? If part breaks they have to replace it and get charged by you for the labor to take it out and put the new one in???

Absolutely. I certainly don't warranty items that I don't supply. Realistically, there is almost never any reason for a homeowner to supply their own materials to a plumber, electrician, etc. If they are supplying material, they also risk not having everything we need and we stand around getting paid while they go chase it down. Or they pay us to. I can't tell you how many houses I've been on when the plumber discovers that the homeowner supplied faucet is missing parts.

[Hermit Cover]

Just out of curiosity, John E .....what kind of warranty do you offer on fixtures and supplies you supply and install.....do you offer better than the manufacturer's warranty??

[RLW]

John E, I think that you and I are going off the subject and if it should continue we had better check if there is an existing thread or start a new one.

[John E]

Originally Posted by RLW

John E, I think that you and I are going off the subject and if it should continue we had better check if there is an existing thread or start a new one.

I agree, lets start a new thread if we want to discuss the spin so as to keep this on topic.

[AQUAMAN]

As a new member to WAM in 2006 I found this posting to contradict with my experience last summer. After running into the owner at the Boston boat show and asking about AMeckler I decided to become a member of the forum and post the facts. AMecler was never kicked out. They were notified by Brian in August that WAM would not be renwing their contract which expired at the end of October giving them sufficient time to secure a spot at another Marina. Brian exercised this right after two unpleasent experiences between Mrs Meckler and WAM service manager. Apparently she felt that when her boat broke down and she needed to get to her island residence that she deserved immediate attention from a service department that they refused to use for any other service. Brian said that WAM does not mind owners working on their own boat or taking their boat back to the dealer they bought it from. Brian did say he was a bit insulted when the Mecklers felt that WAM was unqualified to work on their '80s Supra except when stranded. The service schedule was not going to be interrupted for a customer that chose to have their boat serviced at another Marina. It would not have been fair to the dedicated customers of WAM. Sounds fair to me!

I also asked about WAM policy and older boats. The waiting list application asks the age of the boat. If the boat is older than 10 years then they will not rent a slip without first having the service department inspect the boat for safety issues. If you are on the waiting list and your boat is less than 10 years old WAM will rent the slip without seeing the boat first. "WAM has many boats older then 10 years".

[Aquadeziac]

WOW! If it isn't bad enough they restrict you to having them work on your boat, your boat isn't even good enough for them to work on if its over ten years old. What happenes if you have a 8 yr old boat? Do they notify you in two years that they are not renewing your slip contract cuz your boat is now 10 yrs old? Glad to know my 23 yrs old POS has outlived its usefulness and its fun factor has diminished. I always figured WAMers thought they were better than anyone else, so I guess its true....cuz they're required to have better boats.
Lovey dahling, move the umbrella please, the sun's warming up my Martini.

[NightWing]

The post said that the boat had to be less than 10 years old in order to be on the waiting list. It said nothing about being evicted if the boat turned 10 years while being slipped at WAM.

There seems to be lots of heresay and assumptions being posted in this thread. I still think we need to hear first hand what their policies are. WAM is a part of what the lake has to offer. Let's respect that.

[Airwaves]

Nightwing wrote:

Before WAM is poorly spoken of any more, I think someone should either contact them to ask their policy or perhaps a current member could post the gist of their WAM contract.

LIforrelain wrote:

I think Nightwing hit the nail on the head here. I understand why someone would be peeved if there slip was taken out from under Them. But if it is in the contract then there is no arguement here.

You folks are ignoring one important statement. The person who was just thrown out of WAM, the one with the most immediate knowledge of the contract, AMekler, stated:

the contract did not mention service.

[NightWing]

You are also missing the part where the boat in question was stored on a trailer, not racked under cover. Racking is more expensive than lot storage. Obviously, WAM did not make the same income that they would have with racking and two season service.

One other point is that we are only hearing half the story.

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by NightWing

Racking is more expensive than lot storage. Obviously, WAM did not make the same income that they would have with racking and two season service.

OK, I gotta ask. I don't own a boat so I know nothing about storing them, but doesn't it stand to reason that the racks allow the maria to store more boats (by going vertically as well as horizontally) then just lot storage? They actually charge the customer more for something that benefits the company? Is there an advantage to rack storage I'm missing?

I may learn something new today!

[TomC]

... that puts your boat in/out of the water at your beck & call. There is a giant building, equipment to buy and maintain, and a salary to pay. Lot storage is: there's the field, and there's the boat ramp, have a nice day!

[fpartri497]

Originally Posted by TomC

... that puts your boat in/out of the water at your beck & call. There is a giant building, equipment to buy and maintain, and a salary to pay. Lot storage is: there's the field, and there's the boat ramp, have a nice day!

And how about the enormus taxes the marina must pay to the town of Alton???????

[fpartri497]

O.K. folks:

The exact wording on my WAM contract states as follows--

( 1) lease includes docking, winter storageand two vehicle parking permits.

(2 ) winterization and summeriazation are at lessee`s expense.


( 3) all waste and water tanks must be pumped prior to leaving boat for winter storage.


(4 ) arrangements must be made with the office to access your boat or enter WAM property Nov. 01 through april 30


End of story

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

OK, I gotta ask. I don't own a boat so I know nothing about storing them, but doesn't it stand to reason that the racks allow the maria to store more boats (by going vertically as well as horizontally) then just lot storage? They actually charge the customer more for something that benefits the company? Is there an advantage to rack storage I'm missing?

I may learn something new today!

I wasn't referring to in and out racking instead of a wet slip. I was referring to indoor rack storage during the winter months.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

...You folks are ignoring one important statement. The person who was just thrown out of WAM, the one with the most immediate knowledge of the contract...

Hmmmm.....

Let me play the devil's advocate here.

How do we know that the individual making the complaint was ever even a customer at WAM?

Did you see the contract between the alleged customer and WAM. How do you, or we, know what it said or did not say?

Did you personally contact the good folks at WAM to verify the anonymous individual's claims before you posted the following:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

...Based on that fact I will avoid doing business with them...

One important element that is necessary in a libel suit is evidence that a person's statement caused harm to the defendant. You, as a third party, have now publicly stated that you would avoid doing business with an entity due in part to public claims made by an alleged former customer.

A very slippery road to be on! And frankly I am surprised that someone with such an extensive media background as you profess would take such a profound public position without giving both sides the appropriate airing of their greivance.

Sadly the unfortunate "jumping to conclusions" mentality is something I am seeing all too often each night when I tune in the evening news. Objective journalism has been victimized for an ever increasing dependence on hype to ramp up sagging viewer ratings!

If ever there was a good example, this thread would suffice.

Skip

[The Worm]

I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. How many people would assume that they could call a plumber to come over to replace their water heater, but inform him that you're going to buy one at Home Depot yourself, or if you're taking your car in for repairs but you're going to stop at the local NAPA store to pick up the parts first. This just doesn't happen. These are profit centers for any business in the service industry, it is part of how they make money. Money is not a dirty word. Marine service, winterization, storage, and recomissioning are all part of the overall profit picture at ANY marina, IT IS HOW THEY MAKE MONEY! How many marinas allow you to haul in jerry cans of fuel if they have their own gas dock? (hint: NONE) Does this mean that you will refuse to do business with them because they make you buy "their fuel"? Nobody is being forced to slip their boat at WAM, and they must be providing excellent service to their customer base or they wouldn't have a list of people waiting to get in.