issues at State School near Paugus Bay

[TFP]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

Major I think you’ll agree that there should be no such thing as a hate crime. Motive is not an element of any other type of crime because it’s unconstitutional to punish thoughts. I’ve always been amazed who such laws withstand scrutiny.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

So normally I go to reply to things I disagree with or find to be patently false on this forum but since I’m never logged in, the idea of actually remembering my user name and password stop me and I move on. However, reading this comment actually drove me to find my username and reset my password. To say “motive is not an element of any other crime” is incredibly incorrect. “Motive” is the difference between murder in the first degree, murder in the second degree, and manslaughter. The difference being that murder in the first degree requires “deliberate premeditation” aka motive. The thought in one’s head is the difference.

All that being said I do agree that, in general, the idea of legislating against the thoughts of citizens can be very troublesome. However we have come to the understanding, as a society, that it is required in particular circumstances.

[Major]

Originally Posted by TFP

So normally I go to reply to things I disagree with or find to be patently false on this forum but since I’m never logged in, the idea of actually remembering my user name and password stop me and I move on. However, reading this comment actually drove me to find my username and reset my password. To say “motive is not an element of any other crime” is incredibly incorrect. “Motive” is the difference between murder in the first degree, murder in the second degree, and manslaughter. The difference being that murder in the first degree requires “deliberate premeditation” aka motive. The thought in one’s head is the difference.

All that being said I do agree that, in general, the idea of legislating against the thoughts of citizens can be very troublesome. However we have come to the understanding, as a society, that it is required in particular circumstances.

I am not a criminal attorney, but I think we are conflating "motive" with "mens rea." Every crime has some level of mens rea, which is a person's intent on committing a particular crime. I think you are correct in saying that "motive" is the difference between first degree murder and other types of homicides. However, as stated, every crime has some level of intent. Anyway, it's an interesting discussion, probably not suitable for the Forum.

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by Major

I am not a criminal attorney, but I think we are conflating "motive" with "mens rea." Every crime has some level of mens rea, which is a person's intent on committing a particular crime. I think you are correct in saying that "motive" is the difference between first degree murder and other types of homicides. However, as stated, every crime has some level of intent. Anyway, it's an interesting discussion, probably not suitable for the Forum.

You’re right Major. Motive vs. mens rea. Two different concepts. I’m glad the misapprehension got someone to re-up on the forum though!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by TFP

So normally I go to reply to things I disagree with or find to be patently false on this forum but since I’m never logged in, the idea of actually remembering my user name and password stop me and I move on. However, reading this comment actually drove me to find my username and reset my password. To say “motive is not an element of any other crime” is incredibly incorrect. “Motive” is the difference between murder in the first degree, murder in the second degree, and manslaughter. The difference being that murder in the first degree requires “deliberate premeditation” aka motive. The thought in one’s head is the difference.

All that being said I do agree that, in general, the idea of legislating against the thoughts of citizens can be very troublesome. However we have come to the understanding, as a society, that it is required in particular circumstances.

Welcome back TFP! It is incredibly correct for you to return!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app