150’ Rule Applies to Rafts Too

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

I’m sitting on my porch watching boats speed by my lakefront within 150’ of our raft and buoy. I assume these boaters are ignorant of the rule, and think it applies only to the shoreline or other boats.

My children and grandchildren are swimming off the raft and god forbid they venture out any further. If the Marine patrol isn’t occupied elsewhere I suggest they spend some time in Center Harbor bay and have a look for themselves. I do see them here on occasion but this weekend it’s worse then ever.

It does only apply to the shore and other boats.


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[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

It does only apply to the shore and other boats.


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Not so, GG.

Dave

270-D:2 General Rules for Vessels Operating on Water. –
I. Vessels shall be operated at headway speed only, while passing under all bridges.
II. (a) It shall be the duty of each vessel to keep to the right when vessels are approaching each other head on.
(b) When the courses of vessels are so far to the starboard of each other as not to be considered as approaching head on, they shall keep to the left.
III. When vessels are crossing courses or approaching each other in an oblique direction which may involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on its starboard side shall keep out of the way of the other, allowing the latter vessel to keep its course and speed.
IV. When vessels are running in the same direction and the vessel which is astern desires to pass the other, it shall do so only when sufficient distance between the vessels is available to avoid danger of collision, and at such a speed that its wake will not endanger the boat being passed or its occupants. No person operating a vessel shall abruptly change its course without first determining that it can safely be done without crossing immediately ahead of another vessel.
V. If, when vessels are approaching each other, either vessel fails to understand the course or intention of the other from any cause, such vessel or vessels shall immediately slow to a speed barely sufficient for steerage until the vessels have safely passed each other. If it appears the danger of collision is imminent both vessels shall stop or reverse and not proceed until such danger has been averted.
VI. (a) To provide full visibility and control and to prevent their wake from being thrown into or causing excessive rocking to other boats, barges, water skiers, aquaplanes or other boats, rafts or floats, all vessels shall maintain headway speed when within 150 feet from:
(1) Rafts, floats, swimmers.
(2) Permitted swimming areas.
(3) Shore.
(4) Docks.
(5) Mooring fields.
(6) Other vessels.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Not so, GG.

Dave

270-D:2 General Rules for Vessels Operating on Water. –

I. Vessels shall be operated at headway speed only, while passing under all bridges.

II. (a) It shall be the duty of each vessel to keep to the right when vessels are approaching each other head on.

(b) When the courses of vessels are so far to the starboard of each other as not to be considered as approaching head on, they shall keep to the left.

III. When vessels are crossing courses or approaching each other in an oblique direction which may involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on its starboard side shall keep out of the way of the other, allowing the latter vessel to keep its course and speed.

IV. When vessels are running in the same direction and the vessel which is astern desires to pass the other, it shall do so only when sufficient distance between the vessels is available to avoid danger of collision, and at such a speed that its wake will not endanger the boat being passed or its occupants. No person operating a vessel shall abruptly change its course without first determining that it can safely be done without crossing immediately ahead of another vessel.

V. If, when vessels are approaching each other, either vessel fails to understand the course or intention of the other from any cause, such vessel or vessels shall immediately slow to a speed barely sufficient for steerage until the vessels have safely passed each other. If it appears the danger of collision is imminent both vessels shall stop or reverse and not proceed until such danger has been averted.

VI. (a) To provide full visibility and control and to prevent their wake from being thrown into or causing excessive rocking to other boats, barges, water skiers, aquaplanes or other boats, rafts or floats, all vessels shall maintain headway speed when within 150 feet from:

(1) Rafts, floats, swimmers.

(2) Permitted swimming areas.

(3) Shore.

(4) Docks.

(5) Mooring fields.

(6) Other vessels.

Thanks for the rsa. Did that change within the last 10 years or so?


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[Island-Ho]

I constantly get boaters passing at planing speed between the end of my dock (where we like to swim) and a buoy only 75’ off the dock. So they are at most 60’ from the dock! What is it about 150’ these idiots don’t understand?

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Island-Ho

I constantly get boaters passing at planing speed between the end of my dock (where we like to swim) and a buoy only 75’ off the dock. So they are at most 60’ from the dock! What is it about 150’ these idiots don’t understand?

I think there may be a feeling that, since you don't have to slow down for a buoy, they're in open water and neglect to think about 150' from shore, concentrating on the buioy. There must be many places where this occurs.
Is the buoiy really necessary? If it were removed would boats stay farther away from your dock, or is it a narrow passage? Rumor is, that some buoys marked political friendships, not rocks. Current practice is to remove buoys that are determined to be unnecessary, or can be better marked some other way.

[bigdog]

I have to ask b/c I actually don't know ????

I suspect 'rafts' are regulated by State permit, and there certain distance that the waterfront property can place there raft ? Otherwise, a property owner could place the raft 'any' distance from the shore they desire, and gaining possibly a 'no-wake' distance from their land.

Does someone on the forum know the 'maximum distance from shore the raft can be positioned ? Does the raft once placed, have to be inspected by the Marine patrol or a state/local authority, to determine if it is within the statues of the law ? Is there any state/local controlling authority who monitors the location of these rafts around the lake, otherwise anyone could just go buy a 'raft' and install it themselves, without taking out a Permit ? I have these same questions regarding 'Moorings' ???

Gee, I just think I thought of a new State Agency !

[TiltonBB]

The rules require that, unless a waiver is obtained, no raft may be placed more than 50 feet from shore or in more than 8 feet of water. Rafts must have an easily seen reflective surface on all sides and be marked with the owners name, address and telephone number.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The rules require that, unless a waiver is obtained, no raft may be placed more than 50 feet from shore or in more than 8 feet of water. Rafts must have an easily seen reflective surface on all sides and be marked with the owners name, address and telephone number.

I may be wrong but I believe rafts cannot be more than 150’ from Shore.

Dan

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The rules require that, unless a waiver is obtained, no raft may be placed more than 50 feet from shore or in more than 8 feet of water. Rafts must have an easily seen reflective surface on all sides and be marked with the owners name, address and telephone number.

Hi Tilton,

Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you're referring to the rules in proposed legislation that they tried to pass in 2010, but it failed. Following are the current rules as far as I can determine:

Saf-C 404.09 Swim Rafts.

(a) Each swim raft placed in public waters shall display the owners name and shore front address plainly marked on the outside of such raft.

(b) Each swim raft placed in public waters shall display 12 square inches of reflective material at least half way up on all sides of the raft.


Source. #6092, eff 9-19-95, EXPIRED: 9-19-03


New. #8107, EMERGENCY, eff 6-22-04, EXPIRES: 12-19-04; ss by #8172, eff 9-21-04; rpld by #8614, eff 4-25-06


New. #10293, eff 3-20-13

[Pineedles]

Our raft is in no more than 7’ of water and only 50’ from the shoreline. And I just watched another idiot zoom past. And no, there is no traffic that is crowding him toward the shoreline.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Our raft is in no more than 7’ of water and only 50’ from the shoreline. And I just watched another idiot zoom past. And no, there is no traffic that is crowding him toward the shoreline.

Not sure of your family's swimming ability, but 50' is awfully close. Maybe take advantage of the 150' limit and move her out some?

[Descant]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Not sure of your family's swimming ability, but 50' is awfully close. Maybe take advantage of the 150' limit and move her out some?

That could mean headway speed out 300' from shore. Pretty aggressive in some areas, say where there is a straight line course between an outer buoy and a common destination such as public docks. As is often the case here, what seems obvious to the OP seems like incomplete info to the unfamiliar reader.

[umbrellapoint]

Nerding out just a little bit....

The expected number of boats that will buzz your swim dock per day, on average =

[1 -
(
Probability that the average boater is informed about the 150' rule *
Probability that the average boater can reasonably estimate 150' *
Probability that the average boater cares to observed it *
)
] *
total number of boats that pass by your place per day, on average


Assuming a high probability for each case ( e.g. 95% ), still means that ~15% of boats will not obey the 150' rule. If roughly 100 boats pass by your swim raft on a busy Saturday, you'd should expect 15 or so, on average, to be too close. This would not be evenly spread across the day, but concentrated in the main boating hours ( ~12PM - 5PMish ), so you would see a couple per hour too close --- and that is with a high % of conformity/adherence to the rules.

If there is a high rental weekend, with a less experienced boating population, the actual probabilities may be closer to 80%. The would mean a little less than half of the boaters break the 150' rule. With 100 boats/day, this means ~50 boats too close and an almost constant stream of boats buzzing your raft during peak boating times.

You can pretty much estimate the actual probabilities just by counting the boats that go by your place vs the boats that go by "too close".

To lower the number of boats that break the 150' rule, you can address each of the above probabilities:

1.) increased testing / certification to increase the chance someone, who may be an experienced boater, but inexperienced in NH, is aware of the 150' rule.

2.) additional markers/indicators, particularly in high traffic areas, to better delineate 150' from closest object.

3.) increase MP presence/enforcement in areas with both greatest abuse of 150' rule and most chance of injury and/or property damage by the 150' rule not being observed.

Each of the three costs the state time and money and benefits accrue mostly to a very few # of waterfront property owners, of which a significant portion live out of state and do not vote. So, you would need a way, other than voting, to incentivize the state the address these issues.

[Descant]

Time for the potato launchers. Or, just anchor a canoe 150' out from the raft. So much simpler than complaining on the Forum, and much more effective.

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by bigdog

I have to ask b/c I actually don't know ????

I suspect 'rafts' are regulated by State permit, and there certain distance that the waterfront property can place there raft ? Otherwise, a property owner could place the raft 'any' distance from the shore they desire, and gaining possibly a 'no-wake' distance from their land.

Does someone on the forum know the 'maximum distance from shore the raft can be positioned ? Does the raft once placed, have to be inspected by the Marine patrol or a state/local authority, to determine if it is within the statues of the law ? Is there any state/local controlling authority who monitors the location of these rafts around the lake, otherwise anyone could just go buy a 'raft' and install it themselves, without taking out a Permit ? I have these same questions regarding 'Moorings' ???

Gee, I just think I thought of a new State Agency !

That’s a raft of questions you’re asking right there.

[FlyingScot]

Even worse on the rafts are the parents who pull their kids well within 150'. I see at my house every weekend

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Top-Water

This is why they should ban scuba diving ........... its way to dangerous when people only cite the laws in a way that they only want to read them. Swim lines are also open bar to. No need to slow down by them either.

N.H. State law requires boaters to stay at least 150 feet away from a red flag with a white stripe or other flags in the water. They signal that scuba divers are in the area.

================================================== =
Really for full disclosure.

The full content of the law on this can be found here. It goes way beyond what is stated in post number 3

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../270-D-mrg.htm

I’m not citing a law in a way that I only want to read it. That’s how I remember the law, mainly from debates on this forum long ago. Perhaps I got bad info back then. Don’t assume I’m being an ahole.


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[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

I’m not citing a law in a way that I only want to read it. That’s how I remember the law, mainly from debates on this forum long ago. Perhaps I got bad info back then. Don’t assume I’m being an ahole.


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About a year ago. Starting at your post# 28:

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...aft#post314970

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Seriously!? I can assure you that if it was highlighted in the boat ed course, I would have remembered it. There is so much bad info on this site, you can’t wrap your head around it. What I remember is from years ago about littoral rights of shore front owners. I was told on this site that after I quarantine for 14 days at my southern home, that I’d have to quarantine for another 14 days there. Wrong. I’m sorry that I listened to bad info previously, and have learned my lesson on that. But I can assure you, I thought it was from a good source. And I would never pass that close to a raft at other than headway from a personal sense of responsibility.

TopWater, you really seem to have a personal grudge with me. Want to expound? Did I say things in other threads that offended you and you were just gleefully ready to pounce? I’ve certainly experienced that before here.


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Gilly, brush off Top-Water—he's one of the forum's hypocrites who simultaneously complains about "useless" threads/posts and then loads them up with complaints and criticisms.

In my search for a jetski, I had no fewer than six private messages and two Facebook posts thanking me for the questions and apologizing on behalf of his bitching. In fact, here's one from LAST WEEK, six months after his idiocy.

Hope you're well, friend!



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[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Gilly, brush off Top-Water—he's one of the forum's hypocrites who simultaneously complains about "useless" threads/posts and then loads them up with complaints and criticisms.

In my search for a jetski, I had no fewer than six private messages and two Facebook posts thanking me for the questions and apologizing on behalf of his bitching. In fact, here's one from LAST WEEK, six months after his idiocy.

Hope you're well, friend!Attachment 16181

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Thanks, thinkxingu. The funny thing is, the post you just quoted was removed. Funny what’s allowed to stay and what’s removed.


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Thanks, thinkxingu. The funny thing is, the post you just quoted was removed. Funny what’s allowed to stay and what’s removed.


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I get that the Webmaster is trying to keep peace here—and I think he's doing an overall fine job. I'm more surprised by the number of other members who don't speak out.

To each of the people who private messaged me, I asked the same thing: why not point it out and be part of the solution. To me, not saying anything is saying something.

In any case, let's move forward in the best way for the forum. Take care, and fingers crossed for good boating weather today—I've got friends coming up, and I'm hoping all the crazies from yesterday are hungover until at least dinner time!

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[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I get that the Webmaster is trying to keep peace here—and I think he's doing an overall fine job. I'm more surprised by the number of other members who don't speak out.

To each of the people who private messaged me, I asked the same thing: why not point it out and be part of the solution. To me, not saying anything is saying something.

In any case, let's move forward in the best way for the forum. Take care, and fingers crossed for good boating weather today—I've got friends coming up, and I'm hoping all the crazies from yesterday are hungover until at least dinner time!

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Looks like you should have great weather. Have fun with your friends. Me? I’ve started predicting the daily thunderstorms down here by when I want to take the dog for a swim.


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[webmaster]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Thanks, thinkxingu. The funny thing is, the post you just quoted was removed. Funny what’s allowed to stay and what’s removed.


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When you post about COVID-19 in a thread about the 150' rule in the Boating section it will be removed. I'm serious about keeping those comments out of other areas of this forum.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by webmaster

When you post about COVID-19 in a thread about the 150' rule in the Boating section it will be removed. I'm serious about keeping those comments out of other areas of this forum.

Thanks for the explanation.


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