|
Home | Forums | Gallery | Webcams | Blogs | YouTube Channel | Classifieds | Calendar | Register | FAQ | Donate | Members List | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
09-10-2019, 03:30 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: the quiet side of the lake
Posts: 108
Thanks: 56
Thanked 65 Times in 32 Posts
|
Help! any converts to propane heat from oil~
Hello again, forum goers- when it rains it pours... we recently moved into our home in Tuftonboro, built in 1977. We had Strogens come to service the oil tank and system and check things out. It had not been serviced by the previous owners for 2 years, and it turns out things are in very bad shape. The service man actually disconnected it and said we need either: a new oil system, fix the things that are wrong, or perhaps a propane system. This week it's 50 at night, so I can manage this week. However, time is of the essence here.
If anyone has experience switching over, I would appreciate any insight you have. Whatever I do will be expensive, but since this is what my husband calls 'the final home', I need to do what it takes. I know someone who switched to propane for around 8K, said its cleaner, no oil smell, and easy to use, but they're up in NY state. ANY and all first hand knowledge would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance. Last edited by marinewife; 09-10-2019 at 03:31 PM. Reason: mistyped a word |
09-10-2019, 03:40 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
|
For starters, I would take a drive over to the www.eastern.com in Tamworth, and chitchat up your problem with someone, there ..... just for starters. Get a bunch of free printed info sheets, and just start to educate yourself about oil and propane and equipment and service.
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! |
09-10-2019, 03:47 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,901
Thanks: 2,088
Thanked 1,128 Times in 712 Posts
|
There are pros and cons 2 each but Propane will cost you more to heat than oil even with the most efficient system. I've had houses with both. If you have a boiler I prefer oil. If you have a furnace I would prefer propane. JMO. Just remember, if you change to propane you will have to buy your own tank to get the best prices on fuel. I had the same decision to make 5 years ago. I stuck with oil and I'm glad I did.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
09-10-2019, 04:19 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,970
Thanks: 203
Thanked 621 Times in 416 Posts
|
Another option may be mini spilts with heat/ac. Just had a four head system installed this past summer. Works great. Just a thought
Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
09-10-2019, 04:53 PM | #5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 4,190
Thanks: 1,275
Thanked 1,568 Times in 1,018 Posts
|
Rebate?
Quote:
My house is 1977 also, I'm the original owner, marinewife. I've replaced the furnace at least once, and each time, the efficiency improves. I have propane for the cooktop and the generator. I do not believe I own the tank, which was installed in 2004, same as the generator. Good luck. Let us know what you decide. |
|
Sponsored Links |
|
09-10-2019, 05:33 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 852
Thanks: 267
Thanked 273 Times in 166 Posts
|
Not sure how deep you want to get into this project, but using propane gas likely can be expanded to take care of your cook stove, your washing machine, your hot water, and your fireplace.....
It certainly is cleaner than oil, no issues with leaking or dripping oil tanks, and using it for laundry and cooking is cheaper than using 220 Volts. |
09-10-2019, 05:59 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 741
Thanks: 4
Thanked 257 Times in 169 Posts
|
A house built in 1977 certainly is a good candidate for a thorough air-sealing and insulation upgrade job. Selection of fuel for heating the house is only part of your task. Reducing the heat load will pay off handsomely with either oil or propane, and the house also will be more comfortable to live in, with fewer drafty spots.
|
09-10-2019, 06:05 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,415
Thanks: 734
Thanked 782 Times in 409 Posts
|
Our house is about the same vintage as yours (‘70s), and at that time, most houses had electric heat because it was going to be cleaner and cheaper. Ha! Not cheaper. A previous owner had propane installed. When we bought in 99, we had White Mtn. install a 500 gallon underground tank, which THEY owned. About 5 years ago, we switched to Amerigas because they offered a much better price for the propane. Amerigas worked out the switch and we were never charged for the tank. I believe this is common practice between propane companies. We like propane heat better than oil, and we occasionally use the electric heat, set on low, as backup when we’re away in case the furnace decides to quit, which it never has. Hope this helps. My original point was that you should not have to pay for the tank.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Sue Doe-Nym For This Useful Post: | ||
WinnisquamZ (09-10-2019) |
09-10-2019, 07:13 PM | #9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,970
Thanks: 203
Thanked 621 Times in 416 Posts
|
Quote:
Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to WinnisquamZ For This Useful Post: | ||
Descant (09-10-2019) |
09-10-2019, 09:35 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 2,896
Thanks: 469
Thanked 682 Times in 380 Posts
|
More details would be helpful, but in general every time I've done this analysis oil wins out cost wise, plus you are already set up so you shouldn't need a new tank. Again, more details would help, like what type of system is it and what type of house to start. Also what is wrong with the present system and why wasn't it caught before you bought? A second opinion may be in order.
|
09-11-2019, 01:39 AM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 682
Thanks: 124
Thanked 85 Times in 49 Posts
|
I understand that the horse is out of the barn, but why did your home inspection not catch something this serious? Strogens said you need a new system or fix things that are wrong? Which is it?
I agree with ITD...get a second opinion. If the system needs replacing I like propane & though slightly more expensive than oil, I would go with it. |
09-11-2019, 04:22 AM | #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida (Sebring & Keys), Wolfeboro
Posts: 5,893
Thanks: 2,160
Thanked 765 Times in 548 Posts
|
Check with Realtor...
Quote:
Check if this problem was disclosed by the seller.on the sales agreement. Some compensation for the defective units may be forthcoming. Another thing: My Dad's 1972 buried oil tank was determined to be leaking, and authorities insisted that it be replaced. It took thousand$ to dig it up! You might want to abandon oil altogether, and save yourselves another headache. Last edited by ApS; 09-11-2019 at 04:31 AM. Reason: Old tank? |
|
09-11-2019, 05:19 AM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Moultonborough near the Loon Center
Posts: 195
Thanks: 60
Thanked 69 Times in 47 Posts
|
Our last move was from a home with an oil furnace to a home with propane. I do not know the cost differential, but we are very happy with propane. We expanded the use to include the stove, outside barbecue (it is great not having to refill portable propane tanks), and fireplaces (which we equipped with thermostats that start the fireplaces when the inside temperature drops to back up the main propane furnace that does not work when the power is out because it needs electricity to circulate the heated air).
The major risk with propane is reliance on the propane company to deliver the propane when the tank is low, which is the same risk with oil. We had one incident when we were traveling: the propane tank was not refilled and one of our water pipes froze and caused some damage while we were away. We filed a claim with the propane company and they covered the repair costs. Since then, the company has always filled our tank before it was at risk of running out of propane. |
09-11-2019, 05:29 AM | #14 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 191
Thanks: 12
Thanked 94 Times in 55 Posts
|
Quote:
In my opinion oil heat is tried and true, arguably the best heating source from an economical standpoint (assuming natural gas is a hard no) and you just cant really match the heat per BTU ratings. If I was OP and I had already an existing system, I would look at repairing it back together and replace some new components rather then abandon everything and completely start new. |
|
09-11-2019, 06:07 AM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Center Harbor
Posts: 1,149
Thanks: 205
Thanked 424 Times in 242 Posts
|
I wonder when people have done cost comparisons if they have factored in the REQUIRED yearly service for oil systems. If you don't service oil systems, bad things happen. It is recommended to service propane yearly but I usually did not (did it about every 3 years) and never had any problems, although I probably lost a little efficiency. Plus the tank is outside, not inside. As mentioned, oil is dirtier/smellier than propane.
While I second the newest mini-splits (work down to -15 degrees), in this area you will probably need a backup system for the coldest winter nights. You would definitely want to discuss this with a professional for the systems. I know people that have the minis and LOVE them. I will definitely get them in the future but I already have an existing system that would be relegated to backup. I also had a very nasty problem with an FORCED HOT AIR oil system called blowback. The heat exchange system broke down and leaked into the house covering EVERYTHING with soot. I had to have professionals in to clean the house. We also had to wash all linens and clothes, even stored stuff. We had to wipe off all stored food products. The soot worked its way into the tiniest cracks. It was a HUGE mess. While I think a propane forced hot air system could also have the problem, the mess, I think, would be far less. Not sure if you have air or water baseboard? I had the broken oil system replaced with propane and was very happy. |
09-11-2019, 06:10 AM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: the quiet side of the lake
Posts: 108
Thanks: 56
Thanked 65 Times in 32 Posts
|
Thank you so very much for the replies so far!
We already have a propane tank outside for the stove and the fireplace which was converted at least 20 years ago from wood to propane/gas. We bought the home thru a realtor, the inspection was cursory and did not go into the oil equipment in the basement as thoroughly as the serviceman from Strogens did, taking things apart and looking inside as far as he could. I spoke to a high end home builder in Wolfeboro who said 95% of their builds are currently with propane. Coming from NJ, my entire life was in homes with natural gas, and fuel costs for summer were $30.00, winter heat maybe 120.00, so tanks and any discussion of set-ups in heating are completely foreign to me- I never pumped gas for my car until July- I should probably change my username to JerseyGirl~ I'll keep digging for info and get a couple of estimates with explanations so I can become more knowledgable on everything, but I always left this stuff to my husband- he is so busy working on the property outside that I figured I could get some help here. While I have very few posts, since I began looking for a NH home in 2014, I have read posts on all sorts of things for the past 5 years and feel that forum goers are extremely knowledgable and helpful. Thank you again! ~wife |
09-11-2019, 06:18 AM | #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,901
Thanks: 2,088
Thanked 1,128 Times in 712 Posts
|
Quote:
I've been thinking of installing one for AC and heating in early spring and late fall when it's just not cold enough to fire up the wood stove. I've heard they are more efficient than oil. Sorry, I just realized that you haven't gone through a winter yet. I'm curious to know, keep us informed. What kind is it and who did the install? |
|
09-11-2019, 06:35 AM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH
Posts: 5,547
Thanks: 3,162
Thanked 1,094 Times in 788 Posts
|
State energy audit
Call Liberty Utility and request the energy audit. Even if you are not a customer. An energy engineer will research your home and make recommendations, list energy savings, state and federal credits, recommend competent HVAC installers etc. Well worth the $100 spent!
I have natural gas (Laconia) and definitely never go back to oil or propane. I had both. The boiler was replaced with a condensing boiler, hot water tank was replace with on demand. Energy consumption cost went from $1000 a month during the coldest months down to $130 on the average compared to oil. Of course I buttoned up the house according to the audit and replace the window shades to cellular shades. All recommended by the energy audit. I had an aunt request the energy audit on her electric heated home. She followed the advice of converting from electric baseboard/window ac to the min split system. She cut her energy cost almost 70%! The audit should answer your questions about oil vs propane.
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day. |
09-11-2019, 06:36 AM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 2,878
Thanks: 331
Thanked 1,662 Times in 581 Posts
|
Another vote for propane. Use it at home and commercially.Main reason is that propane burns clean and requires much less maintenance.
Also ran a line to my outside BBQ as Loonguy did (thought it was an original idea : ) |
The Following User Says Thank You to SAMIAM For This Useful Post: | ||
ApS (09-14-2019) |
09-11-2019, 07:32 AM | #20 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,901
Thanks: 2,088
Thanked 1,128 Times in 712 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
09-11-2019, 07:33 AM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford
Posts: 246
Thanks: 145
Thanked 58 Times in 42 Posts
|
Propane
Can also use for cooking and gas fireplace. We converted from oil about 8 years ago with no regrets.
|
09-11-2019, 09:46 AM | #22 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 695
Thanks: 187
Thanked 531 Times in 227 Posts
|
Quote:
Last year there were two nights that we had to put an extra blanket on the bed. Other than that are home, and the restaurant were kept very comfortable. I tried to save a couple dollars by purchasing the units myself and then hiring someone to do the installation. If I had to do it all over again, I would just go ahead and purchase the units from someone who does the installation. It was difficult to find someone who would do installation without taking advantage of a markup on the system. All said and done it ended up costing about $17,000 for the new system so we are about one year away from a break even. We also burn propane in our kitchen, and fireplace. We get a pretty good rate because we use about 1000 gallons per month. I’m confident that the split duct system was the best move. |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to baygo For This Useful Post: | ||
Biggd (09-11-2019) |
09-11-2019, 11:00 AM | #23 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,970
Thanks: 203
Thanked 621 Times in 416 Posts
|
Quote:
Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to WinnisquamZ For This Useful Post: | ||
ishoot308 (09-11-2019) |
09-14-2019, 06:11 AM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: the quiet side of the lake
Posts: 108
Thanks: 56
Thanked 65 Times in 32 Posts
|
Well, I thank everyone for their suggestions so far- coming from a natural gas state with low bills to NH has been an eyeopener here. We had 2 different people come in to give estimates and suggestions- currently, both said it was smarter to fix the current oil system, get the parts, and see how we do.
They said the duct work that holds the AC and the oil heat wouldn't be changed, so it's more economical to get the parts and get it fixed (about 1K) than get a new system (about 8k). Getting propane would raise it over 10K. In the event the new parts fix doesn't hold up, then we'll have to invest in a new system. Hopefully not during a winter month... Thanks again for all of your quick responses, I will always come to the forum first for any future questions : ) ~wife |
09-14-2019, 06:50 AM | #25 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,901
Thanks: 2,088
Thanked 1,128 Times in 712 Posts
|
Quote:
Your heater never breaks down when you don't need it! |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Biggd For This Useful Post: | ||
TheTimeTraveler (09-14-2019) |
09-14-2019, 07:11 AM | #26 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,090
Thanks: 1,157
Thanked 2,011 Times in 1,239 Posts
|
Quote:
What's actually wrong with the system? Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
|
09-14-2019, 09:28 AM | #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 1,211
Thanked 976 Times in 603 Posts
|
Hi marinewife--understood on the modest repair cost. But you might be surprised at the annual energy savings on ductless mini-splits, especially after the tax credit. We have Mitsubishis as the only heat in our Mass house and they've been fine even on days well below zero. Stay warm!
|
09-14-2019, 09:41 AM | #28 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,901
Thanks: 2,088
Thanked 1,128 Times in 712 Posts
|
Quote:
I've heard great things about the Mini-slits but I think you would be wise to have a second heat source. At least a wood or pellet stove. |
|
09-14-2019, 10:17 AM | #29 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 1,211
Thanked 976 Times in 603 Posts
|
Quote:
How old is yours? |
|
09-14-2019, 10:30 AM | #30 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 529
Thanks: 83
Thanked 194 Times in 118 Posts
|
Quote:
https://www.rinnai.us/gas-home-heati...-vent-furnaces |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to swnoel For This Useful Post: | ||
Biggd (09-14-2019) |
09-14-2019, 10:33 AM | #31 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,901
Thanks: 2,088
Thanked 1,128 Times in 712 Posts
|
Quote:
I remember New Years Eve two years ago it was -5 plus a 20mph wind in Meredith and we would have froze without the wood stove. Even with the wood stove going full bore it just got the house up to 68 degrees. |
|
09-14-2019, 01:07 PM | #32 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Jackson Pond, New Hampton
Posts: 220
Thanks: 39
Thanked 132 Times in 72 Posts
|
Maybe you should consider going solar and installing either a heat pump system or just simple baseboards? The payback period on the net cost of the solar system will likely only be 8 years or so ...and from that point forward you will be living for free
|
09-14-2019, 02:03 PM | #33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,970
Thanks: 203
Thanked 621 Times in 416 Posts
|
What is the permit requirements to add solar? I have heard it various by town and could be a real pain
Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
09-14-2019, 03:05 PM | #34 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 574
Thanks: 46
Thanked 109 Times in 80 Posts
|
My office on Cape Cod was heated by electric forced air furnace with a heat pump. First thing in the morning the furnace ran to bring up the heat. We left the heat on 40 when not there. After that the heat pump was the only thing running. Even when the outside temperature was 0 or below.
____________________________________ I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic |
09-15-2019, 09:47 AM | #35 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 1,211
Thanked 976 Times in 603 Posts
|
Quote:
To WinnisquamZ question--a good installer will handle all the permits and other paperwork for you. The guys typically do a rough estimate of expected performance and savings using GIS mapping software from their office, then they get on your roof and make a few measurements to give more precise estimate, then they do the permits and install. The owner just cuts the checks. Excellent tax refunds on this too. |
|
09-16-2019, 10:24 AM | #36 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Jackson Pond, New Hampton
Posts: 220
Thanks: 39
Thanked 132 Times in 72 Posts
|
WinnisquamZ,
FlyingScot is correct we handle all of the permitting, interconnection apps, and rebate forms for you. The only responsibility you would have is to submit for the 30% ITC when you file your Federal taxes. Some Winnisquam bordering towns will also give a real estate exemption on renewable energy installation. The asset value of the array would be added to your tax card but you would receive an exemption for all or part of the value. Belmont, Sanbornton, and Meredith all offer exemptions. |
09-16-2019, 01:19 PM | #37 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,970
Thanks: 203
Thanked 621 Times in 416 Posts
|
|
09-18-2019, 12:01 PM | #38 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: the quiet side of the lake
Posts: 108
Thanks: 56
Thanked 65 Times in 32 Posts
|
my choices
Well, we just got the news, fixing the oil system is useless, we didn't spend the $ to buy the parts since 1 of them cost $1600.00 alone.
So now, we are faced with 2 choices- oil or propane- New oil system is $8500, 83-86% efficient. New propane system is $9300, 97% efficient. Does that amount sound correct? They said it will take 1-2 days to completely do, whichever system we choose. (this is from Strogens, btw) THANKS! ~wife |
09-18-2019, 12:49 PM | #39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 852
Thanks: 267
Thanked 273 Times in 166 Posts
|
Go for the Propane!
|
09-18-2019, 12:58 PM | #40 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,901
Thanks: 2,088
Thanked 1,128 Times in 712 Posts
|
Quote:
The propane burns cleaner but even though it has a higher efficiency it will cost more to heat with propane. Does that price include the propane tank? If you get the tank from the propane Co you will pay for it either in a lease or through a higher propane cost. If you own your own tank you can switch Companies when ever you want if you find a better deal, just like buying oil. It's makes it tougher to switch if you don't own the tank. |
|
09-18-2019, 02:22 PM | #41 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,970
Thanks: 203
Thanked 621 Times in 416 Posts
|
Also, if it is forced hot air the duct work may not be compatible with the new efficient system.
Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
09-19-2019, 11:16 AM | #42 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 2,896
Thanks: 469
Thanked 682 Times in 380 Posts
|
Quote:
So a simple conversion, a gallon of oil through an 83% eff burner would yield you 140,000 *0.83 = 116,200 btus Where as a gallon of Propane through a 97% burner would yield you 91,000 * 0.97 = 88,300 btus. (the btu values of propane and fuel oil vary from different sources, but the difference is pretty small in the variations) In the above scenario, even though propane is more efficient, you only get about 76% as much heat, which means you need to burn more gallons of propane( more$$$$) to equal the same heat of oil. Propane typically tracks oil prices, but propane would have to be 24% cheaper per gallon to break even versus oil in the above example. |
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ITD For This Useful Post: | ||
Biggd (09-19-2019), marinewife (09-19-2019) |
09-19-2019, 12:16 PM | #43 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,901
Thanks: 2,088
Thanked 1,128 Times in 712 Posts
|
Quote:
Last edited by Biggd; 09-19-2019 at 12:55 PM. |
|
09-19-2019, 12:25 PM | #44 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 6,085
Thanks: 2,340
Thanked 5,107 Times in 1,985 Posts
|
Quote:
Just something to think about... Dan
__________________
It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!! |
|
09-19-2019, 12:59 PM | #45 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,901
Thanks: 2,088
Thanked 1,128 Times in 712 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
09-19-2019, 01:11 PM | #46 |
Senior Member
|
In Canada, all direct vent propane stove heaters are required to continue to operate even when the electricity is down due to the severe Canada winters and the likelihood for the power to go down.
Here in New Hampshire, if you have a central heat system like forced hot water, is not a bad idea to get a separate direct vent heater/ propane and place it in a central location in the basement or first floor to keep the place from freez'n up when the power goes out. Plus, they create a different type of heat, hot-dry air, which works well to compliment the central hot water system ……. so's you got two totally separate systems, one with oil and one with propane … plus a big fat electricity bill to keep it all going.
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! |
09-19-2019, 01:23 PM | #47 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 6,085
Thanks: 2,340
Thanked 5,107 Times in 1,985 Posts
|
Quote:
I am having a Mitsubishi Hyper Heat unit installed now in living space (aprox 750 sq ft) over a detached garage I am having built as my only heat source and have no second thoughts about doing so. We shall see... Dan
__________________
It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!! Last edited by ishoot308; 09-20-2019 at 09:05 AM. |
|
09-19-2019, 01:31 PM | #48 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,901
Thanks: 2,088
Thanked 1,128 Times in 712 Posts
|
Quote:
I know a couple years ago on New Years eve it was -5 with a 20 mph wind, which made it feel like -25, and I had all I could do to keep my place at 68 degrees with a heating system and a wood stove, and my house is well insulated. |
|
09-19-2019, 05:48 PM | #49 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 741
Thanks: 4
Thanked 257 Times in 169 Posts
|
It's a matter of conditions for which the unit is sized. Even though an air source heat pump may be designed to deliver a certain amount of heat at some design minimum outside air temperature, and may well deliver significant but reduced heat output below that temperature, the heat demand of the house is greater as the temperature drops. So the choice is either selecting a unit with capacity for the minimum outside temperature you likely will see or selecting it to deliver adequate heat most of the time but providing something (like electric resistance heating or woodstove) to make up the difference for the extremes. In either case, a really good heat loss calculation must be done for the particular house. Rules of thumb don't cut it. Installers of fired heating systems (oil or propane) usually don't do any such calculation, as the units installed are nearly always far oversized.
|
09-19-2019, 06:44 PM | #50 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 1,211
Thanked 976 Times in 603 Posts
|
My mini splits have kept up on brutally cold nights, at least -10, maybe colder. Plus the maintenance and reliability in general are even better than propane, and WAY better than oil.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to FlyingScot For This Useful Post: | ||
Biggd (09-20-2019) |
09-19-2019, 06:58 PM | #51 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 6,085
Thanks: 2,340
Thanked 5,107 Times in 1,985 Posts
|
Quote:
Dan
__________________
It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!! |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to ishoot308 For This Useful Post: | ||
Biggd (09-20-2019) |
09-19-2019, 09:17 PM | #52 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 2,896
Thanks: 469
Thanked 682 Times in 380 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
09-20-2019, 06:18 AM | #53 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,901
Thanks: 2,088
Thanked 1,128 Times in 712 Posts
|
Quote:
Who did your installation? |
|
09-20-2019, 07:34 AM | #54 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 6,085
Thanks: 2,340
Thanked 5,107 Times in 1,985 Posts
|
Quote:
I hired a contractor to build and finish the garage and living space above so it was his subcontractor, "Laconia Refrigeration" who is currently doing the install on the mini split. I personally would contact Steve Gorsk at Home Energy in Belmont if I was doing it on my own. Home Energy has three or four crews and that is all they do all day, every single day is install Mitsubishi Mini Splits. They handle all the rebates the state has to offer for you, they do all their own electrical and they are total professionals in every way and work very quickly! They also service what they sell at a very fair price. As far as how quick it would heat up from a dead cold... that is tough to say as its not so much the air in the room which will heat up quick, its all the furniture and bedding, closets, walls, etc, etc, that will take time to fully come up to temperature but that would be the same no matter what heat system you are using. I will say this...at my camp on Welch which is mostly insulated, I have both baseboard electric and non hyper heat mini splits, (3 interior units for two floors and one outside condenser). At 30 degrees, it does not take long for the mini splits to heat the entire house up from scratch maybe 3-4 hours max...The baseboards would take three to four times that amount of time... On my garage living space which I am guessing is about 750 sq ft,(footprint of garage is 26' x 38') and mostly open concept except for the bathroom, they are installing one indoor unit and one outside condenser at 20,000 BTU. I did install a very small electric wall heater in bathroom to ensure no cold spots occur in there since its closed off. Hope this helps and sorry for the length of this post! Dan
__________________
It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!! Last edited by ishoot308; 09-20-2019 at 08:38 AM. |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to ishoot308 For This Useful Post: | ||
Biggd (09-20-2019) |
09-20-2019, 08:30 AM | #55 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,412
Thanks: 216
Thanked 782 Times in 464 Posts
|
How do you feel they are on your electric bill monthly? We are finishing a large room above our garage, the contractor is putting in one 18k btu hyper heat. The main room is 576 square feet, but has sloped ceilings for part of it. Part of the area is above our master bedroom as well, so not all above unconditioned space.
|
09-20-2019, 09:29 AM | #56 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,970
Thanks: 203
Thanked 621 Times in 416 Posts
|
Down over 30% from past August usage. Oh course that is just AC, but added a forth unit so could be higher. Would go no other way then a mini split. Also would have to have a backup heat source
Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
09-20-2019, 09:30 AM | #57 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Welch Island and West Alton
Posts: 3,263
Thanks: 1,203
Thanked 2,035 Times in 934 Posts
|
Quote:
With both running our total household electric bill was about $240/month for last Jan, Feb and Mar. No oil heat was used in those areas. We have a pellet stove that heats the 336 sq ft LR so no oil heat is used on 1st floor. However as we plan to be away a few weeks mid winter an additional 12K hyper heat unit is to be installed in the LR for when we are away. We will be able to control all three units remotely by apps on our phones and iPad. We do have 3 zone oil heat but only run one zone that covers 2 bedrooms. |
|
09-20-2019, 09:50 AM | #58 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 6,085
Thanks: 2,340
Thanked 5,107 Times in 1,985 Posts
|
Quote:
This was your average TOTAL electric bill for everything in the house?? (Seems excellent) If so what do you estimate the increase was for just the mini split useage??...just a ballpark guess would be fine. Thanks! Dan
__________________
It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!! |
|
09-20-2019, 10:09 AM | #59 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Welch Island and West Alton
Posts: 3,263
Thanks: 1,203
Thanked 2,035 Times in 934 Posts
|
Quote:
Alan |
|
09-20-2019, 10:20 AM | #60 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 6,085
Thanks: 2,340
Thanked 5,107 Times in 1,985 Posts
|
Quote:
Dan
__________________
It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!! |
|
09-20-2019, 10:36 AM | #61 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Welch Island and West Alton
Posts: 3,263
Thanks: 1,203
Thanked 2,035 Times in 934 Posts
|
Quote:
Alan |
|
09-20-2019, 10:39 AM | #62 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 6,085
Thanks: 2,340
Thanked 5,107 Times in 1,985 Posts
|
Quote:
Thanks! Dan
__________________
It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!! |
|
09-20-2019, 12:11 PM | #63 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 1,211
Thanked 976 Times in 603 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
09-22-2019, 07:28 AM | #64 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 529
Thanks: 83
Thanked 194 Times in 118 Posts
|
If you have the right location go with mini splits and add solar panels... you won't be disappointed.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to swnoel For This Useful Post: | ||
NH.Solar (09-23-2019) |
09-22-2019, 09:43 AM | #65 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Laconia, N. MA
Posts: 290
Thanks: 119
Thanked 62 Times in 44 Posts
|
We had Home Energy Products install a hyperheat minisplit system last summer after we bought a house that needed boiler replaced. It worked perfect last winter and we didn't have any issues with it not keeping up - even during the coldest nights. We setup a small spaceheater in bathroom in the event that the temp dropped too low in bathroom but to my knowledge it never kicked on and bathroom felt warm enough. Our most expensive electric bill last winter was around $350 for whole house (everything is electric). We are usually only there on weekends so it would probably be higher for someone there full-time but we didn't set heat below 60 as it was first winter in the house and we wanted to make sure pipes didn't freeze.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to kauriel For This Useful Post: | ||
Biggd (09-22-2019) |
09-22-2019, 12:01 PM | #66 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: the quiet side of the lake
Posts: 108
Thanks: 56
Thanked 65 Times in 32 Posts
|
fingers crossed
Well, readers, I appreciate everyone's input- It appears that Strogen's will be handling our new propane system and replacing the old oil system since it was completely shot. Our sales guy, Paul Smith has been terrific so far. (in the event someone needs an estimate, his cell is 603-833-3557, tell him you got his number from me)- We had 3 other companies, with no one able to begin the project until 4 weeks from now, which we can't take a chance on with colder weather coming. He spoke to his Mgr and they'll be starting this week. I found another guy in Laconia who will remove the old oil tank, drain the oil, cut up the tank and remove it from the property, since Strogens doesn't handle that part of it. He was also super nice, Bill Spencer 603-OIL-TANK, 38 yrs in doing it- There's even more going on in work on this house, but I'll save that for another day when it's not so nice out Again, truly appreciate everyone's '2 cents', it's so nice to know that a transplant to this area can get help just by asking for it in here- Happy Sunday everyone! |
09-23-2019, 06:33 AM | #67 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH
Posts: 5,547
Thanks: 3,162
Thanked 1,094 Times in 788 Posts
|
Propane Burner
Make sure you get the energy rebate on that new boiler!
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day. |
09-23-2019, 06:36 AM | #68 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH
Posts: 5,547
Thanks: 3,162
Thanked 1,094 Times in 788 Posts
|
Solar Panels
Ran into a snag installing solar panels because of Wetlands. Couldn't cut down trees to expose the sun to the panels. Wetlands actually suggest using temporary panels that must be move along the shore line???? Absurd!
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day. |
09-23-2019, 09:08 PM | #69 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 2,896
Thanks: 469
Thanked 682 Times in 380 Posts
|
Quote:
Make sure the filler pipes are removed when the oil tank is removed. There have been many cases of a few hundred gallons of fuel oil being pumped in to cellars or crawl spaces when cut off pipes are left in place and the oil guy delivers to the wrong address. |
|
09-25-2019, 11:43 AM | #70 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,075
Thanks: 215
Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts
|
The big variable here as to whether a mini will be enough for your house in real cold temps is how tight how well your house is insulated.
__________________
SIKSUKR |
09-26-2019, 03:28 PM | #71 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: the quiet side of the lake
Posts: 108
Thanks: 56
Thanked 65 Times in 32 Posts
|
******UPDATE ON THE NEW SYSTEM*********
Well, readers, Strogen's came through! 2 trucks pulled up this morning at 8am and worked tirelessly to remove the oil system and install a new propane system. Thanks to Paul Smith, eternally grateful, this guy moved MOUNTAINS for us, in under a week, from visit to install- If you ever need a reputable sales/service, his # is : 603-833-3557 BUT WAIT, there's more- I called Eastern for the propane tank install, 1 mo. out, Amerigas, 1 month out, Rymes, who CAME to see it, and was supposed to send me an emailed proposal on Monday 4 days ago, NEVER got back to me. The sales mgr, Jerry Neal, never called me back, didn't send out a proposal promised by Tuesday, so today, I started crying. One of the Strogen workers told me to call Wolfeboro Oil. I called and a friendly gal named Jody took my info and said to come down and fill out paperwork. I drove over at 9:30 AM today, she gave the paper to the owner, he came out to meet me, and 20 minutes later, he was at my HOUSE, explaining what needed to be done. 1 hour later, there were workers here, a truck, and a new 500 gallon tank with the owner, Howie Bean, digging a trench to put down the pipe for the install. I will never be able to thank him enough- I will have heat tomorrow. Heaping praise on 2 companies who put customers and service way ahead of the rest, Strogen's and Wolfeboro Oil !! |
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to marinewife For This Useful Post: | ||
Biggd (09-26-2019), Hillcountry (09-26-2019), Irish mist (09-26-2019), ITD (09-27-2019), TheTimeTraveler (09-26-2019) |
09-26-2019, 03:38 PM | #72 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: In the hills
Posts: 2,396
Thanks: 1,644
Thanked 776 Times in 465 Posts
|
Very good to hear! Glad it all came together for you (no thanks to the no shows)
Enjoy your new system! |
09-26-2019, 05:51 PM | #73 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,567
Thanks: 742
Thanked 1,426 Times in 988 Posts
|
Very happy to hear this. A few years ago a major wind storm went through our area and power was out everywhere. We weren't home and were very concerned because our generator had been running and didn't want it to run out of gas. So I called Rhymes and they told me I was scheduled for a delivery in two weeks. I explained the situation and they were firm-two weeks. So I called Howie and he said since we did own the tanks he could deliver to us and he did so immediately which put our minds at ease. I had previously switched to Wolfeboro Oil for our oil from Irving because they, Irving, let me run out of oil a couple of time (on automatic delivery) and I called them telling them I needed oil and they told me I couldn't possible be almost out of oil ) They argued and argued with me, and if I hadn't known one of the delivery drivers, they wouldn't have delivered to me and I would have run out. That was the final straw, I made the decision to change. Fun disclosure Howie is a relative but he is great. You made a good choice.
|
12-04-2020, 03:27 PM | #74 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,415
Thanks: 734
Thanked 782 Times in 409 Posts
|
Word of caution on Amerigas
I should probably have started a new thread, but just want to caution you if Amerigas is your propane company. We have a 500 gallon tank and we are on “automatic delivery”, so when I checked the level this morning and found it at 20% with no delivery scheduled, I called the 800# since this is not a local operation anymore. I waited on HOLD for over 90 minutes before anyone took the call, and was told that it would probably be filled in 5 to 10 business days, which makes me very nervous, especially given our frozen pipe disaster of last December. We need to decide whether the attractive price per gallon warrants the stress. My intention is not to complain, but to give a heads up to Amerigas customers.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Sue Doe-Nym For This Useful Post: | ||
TheTimeTraveler (12-04-2020) |
12-04-2020, 05:07 PM | #75 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 852
Thanks: 267
Thanked 273 Times in 166 Posts
|
Quote:
NO ONE should be cold, or have frozen pipes! Totally unacceptable! Bite the bullet and make the switch. |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to TheTimeTraveler For This Useful Post: | ||
Sue Doe-Nym (12-04-2020) |
12-04-2020, 05:35 PM | #76 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,415
Thanks: 734
Thanked 782 Times in 409 Posts
|
I should have said that Amerigas has never let us run out of propane, and our disaster wasn’t caused by anything they did or didn’t do, but having everything orchestrated out of a national call center is a trifle disquieting.
|
12-04-2020, 05:57 PM | #77 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,567
Thanks: 742
Thanked 1,426 Times in 988 Posts
|
What is wrong with these companies that the resist delivering?????? What is the problem? They are selling their product!
|
12-04-2020, 06:20 PM | #78 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,415
Thanks: 734
Thanked 782 Times in 409 Posts
|
I wish we knew. One possible explanation could be that, with everything computerized, they try to minimize the number of deliveries necessary per household while supplying the necessary amount of propane......so that, for example, they can adequately service a customer with 3 deliveries instead of 4 in a given season, that would save them (Amerigas) money. Take that x thousands of customers, and it’s a win for them. That’s the only plausible explanation that I can come up with.....does it make sense?
|
12-04-2020, 06:23 PM | #79 |
Senior Member
|
What's worked great for me with Amerigas when my tank got low is e-mail at www.amerigas.com, located in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania. I e-mail them: "Hey Amerigas-Laconia NH, my tank is down to 20% so's I was wondering if you can do a fill up." ..... and e-mail seems to work very smooth .... two days later the tank got filled, and the next day after my one and only e-mail I got a courtesy e-mail reply, acknowledging my e-mail.
Best way to communicate with King Amerigas is by e-mail cause they probably don't particularly, really want to talk to you, and prefer e-mail.
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! |
The Following User Says Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post: | ||
Sue Doe-Nym (12-04-2020) |
12-04-2020, 08:02 PM | #80 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,567
Thanks: 742
Thanked 1,426 Times in 988 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
12-04-2020, 08:32 PM | #81 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,415
Thanks: 734
Thanked 782 Times in 409 Posts
|
I agree....whenever we had the slightest problem, we would phone the local office, and everything was a breeze...so you’re right....much better dealing with the local companies. We’ll see how this plays out during the next week or so.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Sue Doe-Nym For This Useful Post: | ||
tis (12-05-2020) |
12-05-2020, 05:21 AM | #82 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,567
Thanks: 742
Thanked 1,426 Times in 988 Posts
|
Good luck. Keep us posted.
|
12-05-2020, 07:39 AM | #83 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 2,878
Thanks: 331
Thanked 1,662 Times in 581 Posts
|
Had the same problem with Irving...actually ran out twice over a two year period. Happened both times mid winter when we were in Fla.
Luckily my neighbor checks the house frequently and we got an emergency fill before damage was done. Anyway...switched to Rymes (now owned by Superior) but still have service from Laconia and Ossipee. Glad you survived your close call. |
12-05-2020, 09:13 AM | #84 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: In the hills
Posts: 2,396
Thanks: 1,644
Thanked 776 Times in 465 Posts
|
I switched from Irving for the same reason...auto delivery and they let my tanks almost run out. Not my idea of having confidence that you are guaranteed to be warm when you need it most.
When I bought a limited amount of propane a couple of weeks ago they called because the driver told them I wanted a 50% fill because I had an early December appointment with the new company for a 500 gallon tank install. Well, the call was to “pitch me” to stay with them and she apologized profusely for the auto delivery shortfalls...she said they would “modify” my delivery schedule so this would ever happen again, blah blah blah, but I stood steadfast and told her I was going with the new company. She then offered her “personal email and number” so that if I wanted to go back to Irving she would handle it personally. I said “thank you” that would be great and if the new company was unsatisfactory in any way, I would contact her. This was 2 weeks ago and no email from her came forth...just like the auto propane delivery. Time will tell how the new company will be... |
12-05-2020, 09:32 AM | #85 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,567
Thanks: 742
Thanked 1,426 Times in 988 Posts
|
Quote:
I had my problem with Irving too and the generator problem with Rymes. Both were in Ossipee but with both I had the trouble after they moved. They were great when they were local. |
|
12-05-2020, 09:49 AM | #86 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 245
Thanks: 560
Thanked 187 Times in 124 Posts
|
Makes me glad I don't have gas.
|
12-05-2020, 11:43 AM | #87 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,901
Thanks: 2,088
Thanked 1,128 Times in 712 Posts
|
|
12-05-2020, 12:09 PM | #88 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 515
Thanks: 47
Thanked 97 Times in 72 Posts
|
Oil v. propane
When remodeling our L.I. (NH) home we looked into oil or propane. When we sold that home and built on the Neck road we went the same route. Pricing (acquisition and ongoing costs) and technology were paramount. With some advice from my son who has a degree in HVAC and has worked in that field ( industrial, not homes) suggested propane for many reasons, especially ongoing maintenance. Our heating and plumbing contractor suggested we look into Our Town Energy Alliance (OTEA) for supplying of the propane. We did, and got an account with Eastern propane. We have been happy with the service. We are also on auto delivery, and have never been disappointed. Yes, getting down to 20-25% before delivery is not uncommon. Pricing is adjusted yearly with broker rates. https://www.otchoice.com/ https://www.otchoice.com/content/about-2 https://www.otchoice.com/energy-and-fuels |
12-08-2020, 02:32 PM | #89 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Rum Point/West Alton
Posts: 196
Thanks: 261
Thanked 37 Times in 24 Posts
|
Eastern
We also have Eastern thru Our Town coop. Last season they installed a device on my gauge that notifies them at 30%, 25% and 20%. Since then they have reliably shown up at 20%.
|
12-09-2020, 07:04 AM | #90 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Center Harbor
Posts: 1,149
Thanks: 205
Thanked 424 Times in 242 Posts
|
I had a different reason to switch. Oil is dirty. My oil furnace died when the heat exchanger cracked sending blowback combustion fumes into the house. EVERYTHING was coated with soot. I had to have professional cleaning services come in to clean EVERYTHING and had to wash ALL my clothes and dishes and anything else that was not in a sealed area. The insurance paid for the professionals but it was a BIG hassle. I replaced the oil furnace with a propane furnace.
Propane furnaces might suffer the same problem BUT the combustion fumes have far less soot and would make far less mess. I also recalled that my parents had gas heat and rarely had to have service done on their boiler (even if it might have been recommended that they do). It ran fine. If you don't service an oil furnace yearly, you are looking for trouble. With the propane furnace I got then and at another house, I got service every 2 - 3 years and never had a problem. In addition, with oil, the tank is usually inside the building, especially in cold climates. Propane stored outside, freeing up some space in your basement. With the oil tank inside, part of the service is to check the lines which requires they be opened and bled. No matter how carefully it is done, it stinks and oil can drip on the floor. I believe that calculations I did at one time showed that propane is probably a bit more expensive that oil, which has a higher BTU rating. However, when you factor in the required yearly oil maintenance, the cost is about equal. The mess factor associated with oil tipped the balance to propane. Also, you can also have on demand hot water heaters with propane. Not sure if that is possible with oil. |
The Following User Says Thank You to jeffk For This Useful Post: | ||
SAMIAM (12-09-2020) |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|