Pier 19

[Janet]

Just saw on another website that Pier 19 store will not be opening this year. No gas, no ice cream. I know the store has been for sale for a few years but hoping this is not true. Will miss boating from Melvin Village for our afternoon ice cream fix!

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Janet

Just saw on another website that Pier 19 store will not be opening this year. No gas, no ice cream. I know the store has been for sale for a few years but hoping this is not true. Will miss boating from Melvin Village for our afternoon ice cream fix!

That would be horrible--we really like their ice cream for a short trip from Hanson Cove.

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[SAB1]

Heard the same. Neighbors son worked there and he called to see if he could work there again this year and they told him they wouldn't be opening the store this year.

[cominghome]

So disappointed to hear this -- our favorite ice cream stop with the grandchildren!

[LIforrelaxin]

I saw the rumor too... My guess is the decision to not open will get reversed later in the season..... I have heard the song and dance from the current owners to many times.... To much profit to be made for the facility to sit idle all summer......

It was a mistake years ago to make it into a convince store, rather then keeping it a full service grocery store. While the location has slow periods, if managed correctly, just like Jo Jo Country store... the profitability is through the roof.

[tis]

I don't think he gets rich running the store. He kept it opened hoping he could sell it I think.

[SAB1]

The mistake I believe was when they sold the parking/slip rights.

[The Real BigGuy]

Why would going condo w/slips & parking have any effect on the store?

I talked to Frank after they closed last year. He sounded then like he had had enough. They own/manage other properties and it sounded like everything combined was getting to be too much. He said then that he wanted to spend more time enjoying life, so I’m not real surprised. I’ll miss convenience of having gas at the slip but, as recently retired, I totally understand his decision.


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[SAB1]

The parking and the slips (so I was always told) were at one time were part of the property and selling them choked off the rental income that came from them. Major reason the property wont sell.

[chasedawg]

The slips and parking spaces behind the store were never owned by the store.

[The Real BigGuy]

I’m not sure that is correct. I believe Buddy Larue (so) owned both and made a decision to condo the slips & parking for same. He sacrificed the rental income for a a one time cash infusion. I guess you’d have to do an analysis of whether rent minus upkeep and associated time for renting maintenance vs cash was a good deal for him. Not always just about the Benjamin’s and I think Frank feels that way.


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[SAB1]

Yes the one time payment was nice for him but that lost revenue stream makes the sale of the store tough. Not a lot of money to be made there in 3.5 months and not much parking or land to expand in any way.

[tis]

Buddy had financial issues for a while. Maybe he had to sell them. I don't think he was being greedy. I happen to like the family very much so I hate to see them get torn apart with what ifs. Frank his son in law who has been running the store now is a great guy and I think he has only run it because he got stuck with it, just trying to do something until it sold. Problem is, it hasn't sold.

[TheTimeTraveler]

As I understand it they were asking around $1 million dollars for the property, and others have alluded to the 3.5 month cash flow doesn't support the asking price. The property will eventually sell but only when it's priced correctly.

The cash flow wasn't there either when the Hunters ran it as a full supermarket; if experienced grocers couldn't cut it then that says a lot right there.




.

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

I’m not sure that is correct. I believe Buddy Larue (so) owned both and made a decision to condo the slips & parking for same. He sacrificed the rental income for a a one time cash infusion. I guess you’d have to do an analysis of whether rent minus upkeep and associated time for renting maintenance vs cash was a good deal for him. Not always just about the Benjamin’s and I think Frank feels that way.


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Where are you getting this false information? This is not correct at all. :>)

Back in the 70's and 80's Dan and Nancy Gilfoil were merchants of a cute store where the Pier 19 store is today. It was a convenient store that served the local community. They only owned the store. The did not own any marina slips or parking behind the store.

At the time 19 mile marina was owned by individuals from the local islands. In 1985 they decided to sell off the slips to individuals. I was one of the original purchasers. Then several years later Buddy bought the little convenient store that Dan and Nancy owned and moved it cross the street on Union Wharf road. You can drive pass it today and it is a nice blue cape on the corner of Union Wharf and 109.

Buddy never purchased any 19 mile marina slips. At the time there were none for sale. They were all owned by individuals and still are.

Lisa and Frank have been great community partners over the years. Their store has brought joy and fun to the area. During the summer the store would be crowded with family and friends buying ice cream and take out food for many happy boaters. They also provide a stop off place for the MP and others to get refreshments and a potty break. They will be missed. They were always helpful and would help in anyway. I understand that they need a break to be with their family and friends during the summer months. We wish them well.

[tis]

Thank you chasedawg for straightening things out. I hate to speak for other people, but I agree, they are good neighbors and don't deserve to have untrue rumors said about them.

[SAB1]

Thanks Dan for the correction. Didn't know that. I had always been told the same that the slips and or parking was sold by store owners for cash. Funny how stories get concocted. My info had even come from a realtor...

[The Real BigGuy]

I stand corrected. Thanks chasebog!

I too will miss the store & the conversations with Frank. I wish them good fortune going forward.


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[Janet]

Now the big question? For those of us who boat from Melvin Village and Green's Basin area where are we going to go by boat for ice cream? Pier 19 was a quick boat ride for us after a long day in the sun. Maybe we can talk Melvin Village Marina or Lane's End Marina to put in an ice cream shop.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

As I understand it they were asking around $1 million dollars for the property, and others have alluded to the 3.5 month cash flow doesn't support the asking price. The property will eventually sell but only when it's priced correctly.

The cash flow wasn't there either when the Hunters ran it as a full supermarket; if experienced grocers couldn't cut it then that says a lot right there.
.

I am going to pull out the BS card....

The problem isn't the 3.5 month cash flow not being enough. It is more then enough or any smart business man would have gotten the property sold off by now if it wasn't, and was costing him money.

More then enough money is/was being made operating as a season business. Even when it was Hunter's supermarket.

The problem is the same for every seasonal business, staffing. I am sure that opening up every summer with mostly new staff is a lot work, and year after year I can see how that could getting tiring. Jo Jo's was always and still is lucky that they have some employees that come back year after year... Peir 19 doesn't seem to have that luck. Now they could hire people to work all year around, but then you have to start worrying about benefits etc. which cuts into the profits...

While I will admit that the asking price is steep.... I also think there has been lots of recent investments (new gas pumps etc.).... So its not a neglected property... Once again confirming my belief that the business is profitable.

I will continue to state, that come July 4th if the store isn't open, then I will believe that until the property sells we all will be out of luck.... But I have seen this behavior before.... I never count on the store opening but I am not ready to draw the for gone conclusion that it will not...

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I am going to pull out the BS card....

The problem isn't the 3.5 month cash flow not being enough. It is more then enough or any smart business man would have gotten the property sold off by now if it wasn't, and was costing him money.

More then enough money is/was being made operating as a season business. Even when it was Hunter's supermarket.

The problem is the same for every seasonal business, staffing. I am sure that opening up every summer with mostly new staff is a lot work, and year after year I can see how that could getting tiring. Jo Jo's was always and still is lucky that they have some employees that come back year after year... Peir 19 doesn't seem to have that luck. Now they could hire people to work all year around, but then you have to start worrying about benefits etc. which cuts into the profits...

While I will admit that the asking price is steep.... I also think there has been lots of recent investments (new gas pumps etc.).... So its not a neglected property... Once again confirming my belief that the business is profitable.

I will continue to state, that come July 4th if the store isn't open, then I will believe that until the property sells we all will be out of luck.... But I have seen this behavior before.... I never count on the store opening but I am not ready to draw the for gone conclusion that it will not...

I agree. Plus, you kind of answer your own question/BS calling. 3.5 months is only insufficient if a person believes the asking price is fair.

If you believe the store is worth less than the asking price, then 3.5 months seems like enough time to cover the fair value of the store. It would be interesting to know the historical prices.

[SAB1]

Swung by ramp today at pier 19 hoping to get a small boat in and was surprised to see the dock to the left of the ramp looking out at the lake is closed off to the public. They installed railings down the entire length of the dock with signs saying private dock no tie ups. This is the side most people visiting the store used. If the store did open now the parking by water wound be the cement dock that the fire Dept and game wardens use.

[mas1992bc]

Went by there yesterday to get ice cream - only to find it was closed. The ice cream windows are boarded up. Doesn't look like it is opening any time soon.

[Janet]

Originally Posted by mas1992bc

Went by there yesterday to get ice cream - only to find it was closed. The ice cream windows are boarded up. Doesn't look like it is opening any time soon.

Very sad. Will really miss our ice cream trips and also their "steak bombs".

[The Real BigGuy]

Will be closed for ?? unless the sell, lease, or rent it. I’ll miss the convenience.


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[camp guy]

I just had a thought - maybe the Marriott Family will buy Pier 19 and run it for a learning experience for their extended family. The Family certainly has unchallenged qualifications in the food service business, and they could commute by boat.

(I am not trying to spend other people's money, just had a thought!)

[The Real BigGuy]

I’d just like someone to open the snack bar & gas dock.


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[thinkxingu]

^ This. Candy Bar Explosion was a special treat!

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[strum]

I hope they find a way to open it up this summer. Has always been a destination spot for our family esp. my son who loved the bacon burgers and you couldn' t beat the price!

[Greene's Basin Girl]

We drove by in the boat last night. Nothing happening as it is still closed.

[C-Bass]

I drive by twice a day during the week and its boarded up, at least the ice cream window.

[Descant]

I don't get to that part of the lake often. Sooo...
I's closed, but no "For Sale" "For Rent" signs? No postings here about its availability?

Instead of whining about it being closed, you should get 200 local customers to buy stock at $2500 each and reopen with hired management. You may not need that much, but most ventures like this fail because they are udercapitalized. So, over 5-10 years, it makes a profit and you can cash out. Or, it fails and your (grand)children have some memories of a boat ride for ice cream and gas. Save gas instead of hovering around Wolfeboro and great memories. PRICELESS.
We hear on this Forum about semi-retired folks opening businesses in Wolfeboro 'cuz that;'s what they always wanted to do. No profit motive. Tell me there aren't people like that in the area of Pier 19. Someplace there is a web page just for this funding purpose.
Do it.

[The Real BigGuy]

There is a for sale sign. Last I heard it was listed at +/-$900k.


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[The Real BigGuy]

http://davidnrich.com/70-78/Pier19/index.html

Pictures of the old store. Now sits on opposite corner of Union Wharf Rd


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[Grant]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

http://davidnrich.com/70-78/Pier19/index.html

Pictures of the old store. Now sits on opposite corner of Union Wharf Rd


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Wow -- thanks for posting. I forgot how that looked. And LONG before they re-routed the road.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Descant

I don't get to that part of the lake often. Sooo...It's closed, but no "For Sale" "For Rent" signs? No postings here about its availability? Instead of whining about it being closed, you should get 200 local customers to buy stock at $2500 each and reopen with hired management. You may not need that much, but most ventures like this fail because they are undercapitalized. So, over 5-10 years, it makes a profit and you can cash out. Or, it fails and your (grand)children have some memories of a boat ride for ice cream and gas. Save gas instead of hovering around Wolfeboro and great memories. PRICELESS. We hear on this Forum about semi-retired folks opening businesses in Wolfeboro 'cuz that's what they always wanted to do. No profit motive. Tell me there aren't people like that in the area of Pier 19. Someplace there is a web page just for this funding purpose. Do it.

You wouldn't wait until checking the effects of parking "The Dive" off Pier 19's shore?



.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Descant

I don't get to that part of the lake often. Sooo...

I's closed, but no "For Sale" "For Rent" signs? No postings here about its availability?



Instead of whining about it being closed, you should get 200 local customers to buy stock at $2500 each and reopen with hired management. You may not need that much, but most ventures like this fail because they are udercapitalized. So, over 5-10 years, it makes a profit and you can cash out. Or, it fails and your (grand)children have some memories of a boat ride for ice cream and gas. Save gas instead of hovering around Wolfeboro and great memories. PRICELESS.

We hear on this Forum about semi-retired folks opening businesses in Wolfeboro 'cuz that;'s what they always wanted to do. No profit motive. Tell me there aren't people like that in the area of Pier 19. Someplace there is a web page just for this funding purpose.

Do it.

Thank is an ambitious plan and with 200 voices and 200 opinions it would be set up to fail. Can’t run a small business like a public company even with a management company running the business.


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[C-Bass]

Originally Posted by Grant

Wow -- thanks for posting. I forgot how that looked. And LONG before they re-routed the road.

What was the previous route of the road? I have always known it to be how it presently is, for as long as I can remember, 20 or so years..

[TheTimeTraveler]

Originally Posted by C-Bass

What was the previous route of the road? I have always known it to be how it presently is, for as long as I can remember, 20 or so years..

As you head south on 109 passing the existing Pier 19 store the road would then veer to the right and run along the shore next to the existing beach before turning to the left and rejoining the existing road.

I believe the road was originally diverted to prevent swimmers crossing a busy roadway to go to the beach. Now, they no longer have to cross the street to reach the beach.

I can't remember the exact year this was done, but I would guess in the late 1970's.




.

[steve c]

The old bridge was torn down and the new bridge was built further to the east in 1993. The old road went right thru the parking lot of the current town beach very similar to the way the road is currently at 20 mile bay.

[Bizer]

If one looks at Google maps, the road now-labeled Bay Rd is the old 109. It joined the current 109 where Haverhill Acres road joins 109.

[Beantownsox04]

HEy all. Any update on the sale of the store?

[FlyingScot]

It's gonna be tough to sell. A person buys it because they love the lake. But the nature of the business is that to make ends meet the owner has to give up his best time to be on the lake.

[The Real BigGuy]

Also, 900k + insurance is a big nut for a 3 or 4 month business


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[SAB1]

Its been for sale for at least a couple years. If it were a money maker it would have sold and be open..................

[WinnisquamZ]

Believe offers have been made over the years. Currently the owners are very difficult to deal with.


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[The Real BigGuy]

Not difficult, just know what they want and have the ability to wait for it. Good for them!


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[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Not difficult, just know what they want and have the ability to wait for it. Good for them!


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They own a store that is improperly sized for its location. A store that is deteriorating every year that it is not used. Then add on the insurance and other costs... they may know what they want but they aren't going to get it unless it is from someone who has more dollars than sense!

[C-Bass]

If I had the money, which i don't I would've actually considered some type of restaurant there. With the exception of pine cone, not a lot of restaurants in the area. Nothing fancy, something like morriseys, maybe some nice outdoor seating to take advantage of the lake. Could have a great takeout window for food and ice cream for the summer. I would try the winter and see how it goes but, might consider a shut down in the winter. I'll call it C-Bass's by the Bay!

[KPW]

One major issue is that the only boat parking for the store is Union Wharf. The store does not own the long dock where the condo docks are. The condo association owns that dock.

[The Real BigGuy]

But the association has always made a deal with a the owner to allow use of the long dock by the store and would do so again.


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[SAB1]

Not sure of that. The dock adjacent to the ramp which the public previously used was closed off just after ice out. Boards were installed the entire length of the dock to prevent docking, signs installed saying private dock and entry cages block off acces to the dock unless you are an island person and have a code for the key pad. That further hurts the store as the only docking now is on the pier the fire boat and f&g boat occupy.

[The Real BigGuy]

Am sure of that. It has already been discussed by the membership.


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[Grant]

Too bad they couldn't emulate the model of JoJo's on Moultonborough Neck. My family had a place near Pier 19 for 67 years, and frequented it in its many incarnations. It was convenient, but not a "go-to" store. But on the Neck, where we currently stay, JoJo's is an absolute go-to. Of course, the nature of the Neck is different that Tuftonboro, as there's literally nothing else, unless you go to Center Harbor, M'borough, or Meredith, but Jo Jo's is a seasonal winner. The deli alone is worth the trip. Sandwiches are top notch, and their chicken/beef/seafood and sausage are great. Place has non-stop traffic, right into October, when they wind down and close.

[thinkxingu]

Don't forget cookie whoopies!

Originally Posted by Grant

Too bad they couldn't emulate the model of JoJo's on Moultonborough Neck. My family had a place near Pier 19 for 67 years, and frequented it in its many incarnations. It was convenient, but not a "go-to" store. But on the Neck, where we currently stay, JoJo's is an absolute go-to. Of course, the nature of the Neck is different that Tuftonboro, as there's literally nothing else, unless you go to Center Harbor, M'borough, or Meredith, but Jo Jo's is a seasonal winner. The deli alone is worth the trip. Sandwiches are top notch, and their chicken/beef/seafood and sausage are great. Place has non-stop traffic, right into October, when they wind down and close.

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[JEEPONLY]

Sorry, but I'm confident the Pier 19 demographic is quite different from the Jo Jo's . I am familiar with both, and because Jo Jo's has such a captive audience they can pretty much charge what ever they want (and do-what ever the market will bear!). Huck's, in Wolfeboro, is closer to Pier 19 than anything similar that's near Jo Jo's. Would you really go to Win'ing Butcher, from MNRoad, in summer traffic?

Their products really aren't any better than a lot of similar places- they have customers who are willing to pay exorbitant prices and then exclaim that they are the best!

What Jo Jo's has going for them (which pier 19 does not) is longevity!

Hey- good for Jo Jo's! They make life easier for those that can afford it.

[LIforrelaxin]

Comparing Pier 19 and Jo Jo's is not possible... location location location!!!!...

I think one of the biggest obstacles with Pier 19 right now.....Is the current owner. While they seem to want to sell and not run the business any more, they don't have a attractive price on the facility. Anyone looking at the business has to look at the purchase price, the amount of revenue they will be able to generate etc.

If the price came down I am sure interest would increase... As it is right now... The price is too high.... given the short season etc.....

From its location, I would never envision Pier 19 being more then a season business.... Jo Jo's on the other hand could be... but doesn't choose to be because they simply break even all winter long... All their profits come in the summer...

Pier 19 would be best utilized for the gas pumps, and ice cream... the problem is the building is so much bigger then that.... and the owner once to sell with a price based on what the building could support for businesses....

[Bizer]

Has anyone heard anything about Pier 19 lately. Bizer is printing a new edition this year. Unless I hear differently, I'm removing Pier 19 from the list of services accessible to boaters.

[Leoskeys]

I just did a search. Looks to still be listed for sale, same price as last year at $900k

[C-Bass]

Being in the construction business, I get bid invites. There is an invite out to bid for improvements to 19 mi bay beach area, so expect some improvements this Spring. I doubt it will have any effect on the docks or store.

[tis]

Originally Posted by C-Bass

Being in the construction business, I get bid invites. There is an invite out to bid for improvements to 19 mi bay beach area, so expect some improvements this Spring. I doubt it will have any effect on the docks or store.

I doubt it too. The town owns the beach and is asking for the bids. The store and gas pump are privately owned. The docks are owned by individuals.

[knowit]

Wondering if anyone rents seasonal slips at the Pier 19 docks or if any are for sale. We will be moving within walking distance to the docks this summer.

[CowTimes]

A handful of the owners rent slips out (myself included this year, but already rented it), and a slip or two typically come up for sale each year. Watch the classifieds on this site for rentals. If you are interested in purchasing, reach out to Nancy Deporter, who is a great island realtor (and also has a slip there) and she will often have the inside track on slips coming up for sale.

[knowit]

Thanks Cowtimes. Won't need it this year as we will be building the house this summer. I will just drop my jet ski in for some quick blasts. Next year for sure I will want to put the big boat boat in. 24 footer. Thanks again for the info. What do they usually rent for?

[The Real BigGuy]

Don’t know rental $. Usually what the owner wants but, 24 ft might be too long for their slips. They have restrictions on how much your boat can overlap the dock finger.


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[knowit]

I think I am actually 23. It's an 08 Yamaha 232 Limited.

[CowTimes]

23’ is likely still too long. It is limited to 3’ past the finger dock, which I think generally means a max 21’ boat (depending on how they measure the LOA and how it sits in the slip). Would suggest taking a spin down there this summer and see what boats are there - most seem to be right at the max.