Most Expensive Lakefront Property

[mcdude]

With the BAHRE ESTATE assessed at ONLY 9.3 million, could this possibly be the MOST EXPENSIVE McMANSION on the lake? (As seen in CABIN LIFE Magazine)

What would be some other contenders for this (dubious) distinction?




Close-up Photo from the Rattlesnake Gal Collection

[Grant]

Further evidence that the world has gone stone cold raving mad.

$13.5 million, and all I get for living space is a 1700 sq. ft., 2BR rancher?

What good are seven boat slips and that massive barn when you have a mere two bedrooms?

My big question, which has been bugging me for years, is this: What do all of these McMansion people DO for a living to afford million-dollar (let alone 13 million) lakefront homes? It boggles the mind.

[jimbob1603]

What do they do for a living???
They earned their money the old fashioned way ... they inherit it!
More likely, they were in the right place at the right time .....


But, what about the 'average' guy? I'm still in awe of how much disposable income is out there. How do most shorefront vacation home owners swing two houses, pay taxes, own a $75,000 boat, and send the kids to college? Where is all this money coming from? The typical lakefront property probably has a current market price of $550,000 .... the 'average Joe' (myself included) can not possibly comprehend how much cash is summering on Lake Winnipesaukee.

Perhaps some of these folks have inherited the property? Are they financed up to their eyeballs? Are they all doctors & plumbers? Or lawyers & real estate agents? Are their kids not going to college? Just curious ....

Interestingly, I've heard (multiple times) that when Mom & Dad leave their Winnipesaukee house (with the best of intent), to their children, it inevitably is liquidated & proceeds divided because of conflicts between siblings and/or their spouses. With this in mind, I don't believe that many of these properties are inherited by 'average Joe'.

[KonaChick]

Actually it will be my kids inheriting "it". That's if they don't start doing their chores, then I might leave it all to the dog.

[Grant]

I'm not even thinking about the average lakefront home. Most of the folks I know up there are people who've been there forever. They didn't pay the rates people are paying today...and many did, indeed, inherit the properties (after all, I'd venture a guess and say that most folks frequenting this forum would agree that a lakefront property is certainly worth holding on to!).

What I'm curious about is the rash of HUGE lakefront shacks that've popped up over the past 10 years or so -- and what these cats do for a living. Sure, there've always been the grand summer places like those on Governor's Island, etc. But the proliferation of NEW giant construction...that's what I wonder about. Amazing. I gotta start playing more PowerBall or something, 'cuz the day job won't put me in anything more than a room at the Pine View Lodges...

[jimbob1603]

... I grew up with his wife; she & her husband are both lawyers. They bought a waterfront property in Wolfeboro, tore it down, and replaced it with a 5 bedroom McMansion. Their lifestyle is all due to their own personal hard work; albeit lawyering. Didn't hit the lottery, etc..

[Mr. V]

"I've heard (multiple times) that when Mom & Dad leave their Winnipesaukee house (with the best of intent), to their children, it inevitably is liquidated & proceeds divided because of conflicts between siblings and/or their spouses."

There is a fairly simple mechanism to minimize the potential for this: before death, the owner should set up a trust, and put ownership of the property into the trust.

Heck, if you're flush, add some cash into it, too, to be used for property taxes and expenses for awhile.

This will minimize sibling rivalry...at least in theory.

Of course, if not all the kids use the lakefront property, there will always be some disaffected soul who prioritizes greed over family unity.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by mcdude

With the exception of the Bahre Estate, could this possibly be the most expensive McMansion on the Lake?

Unless that property has changed hands recently, it's the Walgreen estate. (You might have bought aspirin from them).

Just three days ago, I referenced that boathouse/moat dynamiting here. I believe the dynamiting was done in May of 1996, and nobody around the lake could have missed it.

What do McMansion owners do for a living? My nearest McMansion (which is today getting two new additions) is a Washington D.C. bureaucrat.

Mr. V is exactly right. My neighbor/siblings -- of many years -- are now estranged. Only the one who couldn't afford to keep it, wanted it. The others wanted cars and boats. It would even have been better to have mandated a sale upon the passing of the parent, sadly.

[upthesaukee]

Isn't that property the Walgreen owners "cottage" and boat slip?

[Frdxplorer]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Isn't that property the Walgreen owners "cottage" and boat slip?

That is what I had heard a while ago also. I have always been curious though, was there supposed to be an enormous house behind the boat house?

[Mink Islander]

I thought they intended to have the space above the boathouse be a residence and tried to sleaze that by without proper permits. Didn't the state took a dim view of their plans once discovered? So now they have a big dance hall over the mother of all McBoatHouses. Of course why its ok to blast your way into the shoreline the way they did to build the boathouse and man-made lagoon is a mystery! I'm also thinking there may be a decimal error in what they're asking for that property! Can't imagine they'll get anywhere close to $13+ million. Or even half that. Time will tell....

[JTA]

I've always thought the Marriott property at the end of Tuftoboro Neck was pretty nice. They must pay some $$$$ taxes. Next door to them there is a compound which I believe is owned by the RC Church (so I assume it is not taxed??). Anyone know about it?

[Rattlesnake Gal]

I hope the person that purchases it can keep the 40 acres together. That’s plenty of space for a lot of new homes.
Not something I'd like to see, I mean that literally.

[mcdude]

RG: You, and others, on your side of the island may potentially be looking at a lot(s) of development. The 'new' owner of the Lakes Region Airpark was required to keep it open as an airport until 2005. The state was unable, or unwilling, to acquire the property and it is now ripe for some kind of development. I'm thinking that this Wahlgreen property may even abut the airpark.

From the Laconia Citizen....
"In the fourth spot is Lakes Region Airpark, a small airport overlooking The Broads, the widest section of Lake Winnipesaukee.

The air park is assessed at $6,094,158 generating a tax bill of $66,670. Made up of two parcels, one 33.73 acres and the second, 69.5 acres off Forest Road, it features 1,000 feet of frontage on the Big Lake. The airport’s waterfront is a state approved seaplane base and is still designated as such on lake charts.

Airpark founder Ralph Horne sold it in his later years and the taxes continued to climb. But Horne added a deed restriction mandating that it operate as an airport until 2005. Don Satterfield bought it, honored the deed restriction, and was considering developing some of the property into about 35 house lots but never filed an application with the Planning Board.

When Satterfield later signed a purchase and sales agreement on the parcel with Spencer Hughes Realty, it triggered a law that gives the state the right of first refusal on privately owned airports. The case ended up in Superior Court and concluded with a judge’s ruling that the state lacked standing to acquire the airport. The Wolfeboro town planner said no development plans have been filed for the property"
See complete article HERE

ANOTHER ARTICLE on the proposed development of the airpark.

[ApS]

Since it was warm, sunny, and calm yesterday, I took a boat ride around The Broads to have a look-see. There are some changes. Rattlesnake Islanders are getting new addresses: One home is marked with both "116" and "983".

Now that a sunny day's comparison with Walgreen's with its neighbors can be made, I don't think the Walgreen's property is as "confrontational" as others nearby. One residence -- under construction nearby -- looks like a new Home Depot. Another has a serious landslide for a lawn. (Still another has a florescent, cardinal-red, roof -- a trend?)

Some aluminum scrape-marks on Walgreen's rocky underwater ledges have been silted-over since just last week. There is a new navigation marker this year, too. (And it doesn't appear on my new-this-year, 6th-edition, BiZer's).

The airport is as active as ever -- with Cessnas and helicopters landing as I watched. A huge swath of giant white pines has been "harvested" from one end of the runway. Except for the abandoned "stump field" there, the airport runway may actually be safer for landings and take-offs. OTOH, the Walgreen's 40-acre property nearby has a diamond-shaped sign indicating it is a "Tree Farm". Go figure.

Are the airport- and the Walgreen- owners both looking for a Akwa-Vista-style buyer?

I've heard that one dug well nearby produces excellent water; however, my own observations of the new cellars being dug in the neighborhood of the Walgreen's indicate that the soil is eight-foot-thick clay -- and rock -- and is not suitable for the suggested wholesale, private, drainfields. (Clay will shed septic drainage into Winnipesaukee).

The narrow roads won't handle construction traffic either, and the owners fronting the roads (including a public beach) may have something to say about that.

Now (Thursday) I'm getting word that the Winnipesaukee real estate market is going to get bad for us lakefront owners. More on that when I get a clarification on that "doomsday" e-mail.

First today though, I've got to refill my tank with another 2 gallons of expensive gasoline. Where to go???

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Now (Thursday) I'm getting word that the Winnipesaukee real estate market is going to get bad for us lakefront owners. More on that when I get a clarification on that "doomsday" e-mail.

Ahhhhhh APS,

Once again you pique my interest, please elaborate on the quote above, does bad mean bad water, more development or maybe lower prices?

[liketherush]

I just had a few questions and comments to add to this very old thread. First I wanted to state that a 13.5 million dollar asking price doesn't mean the assessed value is anywhere near that. Houses in Rye have been known to sell for more than twice their assessed values. If anyone's interested, the assessment on this particular property can be found at www.visionappraisal.com and is actually about 5.4 million.

Now my questions are regarding the Bahre estate. Is the 9.3 million dollar value reported in that article about the largest tax payers, the value of the entire property or merely that of the building. I'm going to guess that at 35,000 square feet, it's just the value of the house although that still seems a bit low. Similarly, is the 4.7 million dollars the value of his son's home on the same estate, or does Mr. Bahre own another house elsewhere in Alton?

[GTO]

did you ever notice though, that even on the busiest weekends, there's nobody ever at these estates. I pass alot of these "great" houses during the summer and rarely see anyone out enjoying them. Probably working 24/7 to pay for them. I'm not impressed. Give me a 2 room cottage and a bathroom and I'd be happy.

[ApS]

I'm not impressed by the "great" houses either.

Although it wasn't built as such, our place is what modern real estate agents call a "teardown".

(But McMansions don't have wildflowers — like the Pink Lady Slipper — in their yards).

[Fishy Cover]

Approx 3 years ago we were cruising slowly off the west coast of Long Island (Gold Coast?) and we saw a woman on a maid's uniform (Black short skirt, white apron) out on the expansive lawn of one of the largets homes (the one with the big garage and apartment above) playing frisbee with a dog. Honest. My wife and I decided that the only explanation for this is that the owners were so rich that they had their help have their fun for them. We also postulated that the butler was out water skiing.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Fishy Cover

We also postulated that the butler was out water skiing.

Thanks Fishy...I needed a good laugh today. I have a lot of customers and friends down in New Orleans, Mobile and Gulfport. Most of whom lost all personal and business assets, and some that have not been heard from. Totally depressing.

[Phantom]

McDude -- I always thought that the "Mansion of Mansions" was the one built (still building) by the owner of Louden Speedway (can't for the life of me remember his name) over in Brickyard Cove, behind Backdoor Isle. Someone once told me thats currently north of $40 mil and still going.

Was I misinformed?

[mcdude]

Phantom:
The "Mansion of Mansions" that you refer to IS the Bahre Estate. However, LikeTheRush is correct, I have learned (Thanks DRH for setting me straight) that the valuation stated in the link to the Citizen is for only one of the Bahre parcels. He owns something like six over in that neighborhood, not to mention the land he is developing for the new Hannaford's near the Alton Traffic Circle. (Site work has begun by the way). His total valuation is for something in the neighborhood of 30 million. ($30,000,000 ! ! ! ) and about $300,000 is paid in taxes. Further adding to the confusion is the fact that revaluation has just taken place in Alton. New figures can be seen on the web site that LikeTheRush posted.(see above) Other lake towns included are Wolfeboro, Alton, Laconia, Moultonboro and New Durham. Sorry for any misinformation. McD

BTW.....The Lakes Region Airpark was mentioned above. Here is the development proposal which I think has been approved (? Has it been approved?)
GRAND VIEW COMMONS

[SIKSUKR]

WOW!! I knew property was expensive but give me a break!4.75 million for a couple of acres?

[dpg]

My little single lot in Moultonborough has gone from $44,000 a couple months ago to a new appraised value (sent to me) at $53,000. Go figure, I've had septic people/designers tell me it's questionable as too whether it's even buildable. I'm afraid to even have it perked for what I may find out. When the town surveys this property would they take that into account? At such an appraised value can I (assume???) it's in fact buildable?

[TomC]

Originally Posted by dpg

My little single lot in Moultonborough has gone from $44,000 a couple months ago to a new appraised value (sent to me) at $53,000. Go figure, I've had septic people/designers tell me it's questionable as too whether it's even buildable. I'm afraid to even have it perked for what I may find out. When the town surveys this property would they take that into account? At such an appraised value can I (assume???) it's in fact buildable?

this week that Vision Technology (going by recall in the name, here) firm that prepared the assessments are in Moult and you can meet with them to discuss your appraisal. they will tell you what the comparables were to help them arrive at their assessment. If those comps were buildable lots, then they based your value on this. You can be sure that this situation (if it is indeed true) would not be considered tacit approval of the build-ability of yur lot. if you had your land perc'd and it was unbuildable, you likely could get an abatement.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Grant

What good are seven boat slips and that massive barn when you have a mere two bedrooms?

My big question, which has been bugging me for years, is this: What do all of these McMansion people DO for a living to afford million-dollar (let alone 13 million) lakefront homes? It boggles the mind.

How many beds do you need for a good night's rest?

However, you can never have enough toys! Only 7 slips?!

As for the second question, does the phrase "Other People's Money" ring a bell?

[Dogg]

These days it is not hard to afford both a property in NH along with 1 somewhere else. Not being from NH or working for a NH company really show's what could be made out there! Growing up or living in NH does create a cloud that is really tough to ever see through. Outside though in the real world you can see what people are really paid for thier work and also what the rest of the world deals with on a day to day basis in terms of finances... NH is just not in with the rest of the country.. not to say other states aren't either.. but you will never, never get a grasp of the 'real' world growing up in NH, until you LEAVE NH...

[PROPELLER]

Dogg, you may be right about what you said but there are trade offs too. I do not like putting up with city or suburban life & all the headaches (at least to me). I grew up in a suburb of Boston where I could shake hands with my neighbor through our kitchen windows. Now I can't even see my next door neighbors house. I am much much closer to boating at Winnipesaukee & skiing in North Conway. And I have alot less traffic to deal with.

Unless I happen upon some misfortune or am forced too I would never trade my life in NH for city or suburban life.

[SIKSUKR]

Dogg,I have "left" as you put it,Nh many times abroad an around this country.I have made a pretty successfull life for myself here.I feel you have it exactly backwards.You will never get the grasp of what the real world should be unless you have lived in NH.Maybe I should say,what the real world used to be before the influx of narrow minded caustic thinking city dwellers.Open your eyes and your mind might follow.

[KonaChick]

Originally Posted by Dogg

These days it is not hard to afford both a property in NH along with 1 somewhere else. Not being from NH or working for a NH company really show's what could be made out there! Growing up or living in NH does create a cloud that is really tough to ever see through. Outside though in the real world you can see what people are really paid for thier work and also what the rest of the world deals with on a day to day basis in terms of finances... NH is just not in with the rest of the country.. not to say other states aren't either.. but you will never, never get a grasp of the 'real' world growing up in NH, until you LEAVE NH...

Dog does have a valid point here. I made the choice to raise my family here because of the exact things he's pointed out. Who wouldn't want to live here?!? We are fortunate to be able to do so...

[MJM]

I disagree with Dogg's assertion. I am not originally from NH, have lived in a few states around the country, and I have not worked for a NH company. When we moved to NH 8 years ago, we soon realized we had been fortunate to have found one of the best kept secrets around. The people, place, and overall way of living is just outstanding. We hope to never leave.

[PROPELLER]

I don't think Dogg disagree's with the premise that living here is great. What I got out of his post is that you can be paid substantially more somewhere else that allows you to afford a second vacation home here in the lakes region. But if you stay here in NH & work it would be much more difficult.

It appears he was responding to a post that stated the poster wondered what others do to afford the McMansions.

[Dogg]

Originally Posted by PROPELLER

I don't think Dogg disagree's with the premise that living here is great. What I got out of his post is that you can be paid substantially more somewhere else that allows you to afford a second vacation home here in the lakes region. But if you stay here in NH & work it would be much more difficult.

It appears he was responding to a post that stated the poster wondered what others do to afford the McMansions.

Thank You Propeller.. This is exactly what I was attempting to get at. Do not get me wrong, I love NH, I have traveled the country and have had the chance to see many different parts of the US.. Not many at all up to the beautiful landscape and area that NH has to offer.

[Mr. V]

Dogg is probably correct about earning money elsewhere, and spending a portion of it in NH.

But, off on a tangent...

I had to decide years ago where to live; growing up in NJ, we always spent a couple weeks during the summer vacationing on the lake; I toyed with settling in NH, but chose not to for several reasons.

*these are my opinions, and NOT tossed out to flame*

NH is a "hardscrabble" state, economically. There are not a lot of lucrative opportunities for a self-starting professional.

NH is somewhat of a cultural desert, at least compared to what is offered to someone living in or near a good sized city.

NH schools are reputed to be spotty, due to your bizarre tax structure.

Rural New Englanders are reputed to be a bit clannish and aloof to outsiders.

Things are a bit boring in NH, a bit too laid back, too slow.

Long, cold winters are not necessarily a good thing.

Now for many folks, the above points would be reasons to settle in NH, and that's fine, you see the glass half full, I see it half empty.

I chose to settle near Portland, Oregon and I've never looked back; it suits me to a tee.

I still like to visit NH, at least during the high summer season.

Yeah, I earn my money elsewhere and spend it in NH: works for me.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Dogg is probably correct about earning money elsewhere, and spending a portion of it in NH.

But, off on a tangent...

I had to decide years ago where to live; growing up in NJ, we always spent a couple weeks during the summer vacationing on the lake; I toyed with settling in NH, but chose not to for several reasons.

*these are my opinions, and NOT tossed out to flame*

Mr V. You have great insight as to what New Hampshire is about and are lucky that you found a spot that you like, yet wasn't New Jersey. I'm glad that you still appreciate what NH has to offer enough to cross the country for it. You said that you see the glass, half-empty. Here is the way I see the half that is full.

NH is a "hardscrabble" state, economically. There are not a lot of lucrative opportunities for a self-starting professional. Hardscrapple is one of the best ski runs on Cannon Mountain, and indeed, represents the state well. The job opportunities are here, just like they are in India. The 'virtual office' for the professional is anywhere that there is telecommunications. Much of NH is in fine shape for professionals to live in the woods, by a ski area, the seacoast, or a lake. There could still be additional Internet infrastructure added to some regions and while Manchester is a good airport, if you are in the NH north country it is a bit far away.

NH is somewhat of a cultural desert, at least compared to what is offered to someone living in or near a good sized city. The nearest city, Boston, way outclasses much of what NH has to offer, but Boston is only an hour away for about half of the state's population. NH is something like 90% white anglo, so it can be a desert outside the cities for other cultures. However, its cities of Concord, Nashua, Manchester, and Portsmouth compare well to the Mass cities of Lowell, Lawrence, and Fitchburg. NH has small cities. Heck, the population of the whole state of NH is just a fraction of Boston's, and only twice the population of your city.

NH schools are reputed to be spotty, due to your bizarre tax structure. With schools, outsiders that move in have a choice of towns. Each has local control of its schools. You can pay high taxes for a very good school or pay lower taxes for a good school. You are reminded of the price of the freedom, to choose your school district every time you get a tax bill. Many like it that way - its part of the hardscrapple. Overall, the schools are quite good, but there are a few cities that could use a state handout for their schools while they work on getting back on their feet.

Rural New Englanders are reputed to be a bit clannish and aloof to outsiders. Ah-yup. Not as bad as LA, not as good as in the mid-west. Something to do with the long dark winters. Plus, we have to question the sanity of anyone that wants to live here. If you are second generation NH citizen, you have nothing to worry about.

Things are a bit boring in NH, a bit too laid back, too slow. Slow and laid back doesn't always have to be boring. You can spend hours just reading the Winni forum - how is that for excitement!?

Long, cold winters are not necessarily a good thing. But, a long cold winter is not necessarily a bad thing either. We get earlier ice on the lake and deeper snow on the trails. In the spring, the lake is safe into March and the skiing lasts into April. I'll admit April can be boring, laid back and slow, clanish and make people aloof while waiting for the ice to melt - but, seriously, if you like winter sports, snowstorms, and tending woodstoves, NH has great winters right in your back-yard, and $49, 3-hour plane rides to Florida on Southwest Air.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Mr. V,

Guess I'm in line with Lake Geezer. Everything you see as a disadvantage, I see as an advantage course, that's why I live here.

In terms of

There are not a lot of lucrative opportunities for a self-starting professional

couldn't disagree with you more. As the owner of a couple of small businesses, I've found NH to be a very entreprenurial state with lots of opportunity and little of the stifling beurocracy I've seen elsewhere. I recently read where we have the highest per capita income and the lowest poverty rate in the country. Highest percentage of people with insurance, etc.

In terms of schools, Gilford and Alton, to name a few do pretty well. We also have some of the best private schools (Phillips Exeter, Tilton School, Brewster, etc.).

Winter, skiing, snowmobiling, ice fishing, snuggling by a fire, cutting down your Christmas tree, hot chocolate ..... (OK, sometimes it doesn't seem to ever end )

People, mostly no BS, easy to get to know if your not pushy.

Slow pace, just the way I like it.

Cities, I'll take Portsmouth any day, Portland a close second. Easy ride to Boston if I need to raise my blood pressure.

Anyway, as I said earlier, guess that's why I live here. Not perfect, but not too shabby either

[glennsteely]

If I thought I could make the money I make now, I would be there already....

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Just have to have a little imagination and be willing to do a major career change (coupe of years to make it happen doesn't hurt either)

[Pineedles]

Earlier in my life I dreamed of living at the lake. In more recent years I've come to realize that my time here is a rejuvenation. The "Porch Paralysis" (sitting on the fron porch facing the lake) that I as well as my many relatives that share this cottage enjoy is a chance to unwind from the realities of our lives in many different states across the Northeast.

Yes, I said share. I wanted to address some of the postulations by contributors to this thread. Built in 1892 this "cottage" has passed through several generations and has survived because of the wisdom of my great uncle and grandfather whom designated a system of sharing the house in 2 week increments during the months of June through September. The sibling rivilary hasn't occurred because we all acknowledge that most of us only get 2 weeks vacation from our jobs as well as it makes it affordable as far as taxes go when we all share the expenses.

This is no McMansion and could be considered a tear-down but it serves the purpose of a place of recovery, and if I lived here there would be nothing to recover from and it might lose its charm.

I'm not criticizing those who choose to make this their home, just add another perspective to being "upthesaukee".

[Grant]

A few weeks ago, as I was pondering the end of another summer season, sitting on the dock enjoying the stars, it came to me:

"I want to live here, not leave here."

[Pineedles]

But, "I'll be back".

[glennsteely]

Me too!!! I second that. Still and all, I would like to live in that air...