Boating Accident/Death off Diamond Island

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Starting with post #900, there does seem to be a "too-wide support" for alcohol on board a boat.

There is nothing wrong (legally and morally) with having alcohol on a boat. Just because there is alcohol on a boat does not mean that the person piloting the boat has been drinking. It doesn't mean that anyone on the boat has been drinking. And it does not mean that any person on the boat is drunk.

The presence of alcohol on a boat means just one thing...that there is alcohol on a boat. Nothing more, nothing less. So yes, I am saying that as long as it is legal, it is perfectly acceptable.

[fatlazyless]

Alcohol does a good job of removing ink marks from vinyl upholstery, plus it cleans paint brushes used with BIN primer-sealer. Two excellent reasons to carry alcohol on board!

For a skipper out navigat'n in a $150,000 Formula 370 SS, maintaining a good supply of Grey Goose would most certainly be an appropriate application!

[NoRegrets]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Alcohol does a good job of removing ink marks from vinyl upholstery, plus it cleans paint brushes used with BIN primer-sealer. Two excellent reasons to carry alcohol on board! For a skipper out navigat'n in a $150,000 Formula 370 SS, maintaining a good supply of Grey Goose would most certainly be an appropriate application!

I was getting so serious but your post just changed my day! Thanks.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Alcohol does a good job of removing ink marks from vinyl upholstery, plus it cleans paint brushes used with BIN primer-sealer. Two excellent reasons to carry alcohol on board!

For a skipper out navigat'n in a $150,000 Formula 370 SS, maintaining a good supply of Grey Goose would most certainly be an appropriate application!

Never knew that, how utterly good taste

I think the Formula is a lot closer to $400k than 200k. It's a fashionable express cruiser. I could use my boat as a tender for it

[Excalibur]

I have waited for the outcome and to learn all the facts in this case. It effected me as a frequent night boater on the lake and I believed it has made me more cautious even on a lake I know like the back of my hand.

I was saddened for the loss and hardship it has caused, and felt it could of happen anyone else on the lake that boats at night. Alcohol is always on your mind to jump to conclusion, "they must have been drunk to hit a island". But many things impair our judgment, and being late at night, fatigue is a major cause of accidents.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/fatig...accidents.html

So I hope for all of us that enjoy the lake, to keep a respect for it.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

. But many things impair our judgment, and being late at night, fatigue is a major cause of accidents.

As I watched the trial unfold and read what I could. And then knowing what I know about fatigue I have always, and will always wonder what role fatigue played in this case. Unfortunately as Alcohol is always a much more volatile subject in these case it got all the attention.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't believe that Erica was stone cold sober that night. But was the fatigue from a long day involved in this accident every bit as much as the alcohol... I personally believe it was.... I believe it very well could have been the driving force to get to the destination that night for a good nights sleep. Instead of anchoring somewhere and waiting the bad weather out.

A thought for everyone to think about here... The last time you had two or three drinks...(assuming you don't have 2 or 3 drinks every night)... how quickly do you feel fatigued and ready to head off to bed.

[VtSteve]

Typically, days spent lounging around in the sun will make me a bit fatigued, whether I've had drinks or not. Standing at the helm for extended period will fatigue my back, so this year I tried the new Sperry (ASV) anti-shock-vibration gimmick shoe. So far, after a week, my back feels much more relaxed after days on hard surfaces.

Many people know what it's like to be so tired, the lines on the road seem to be your only focus. It's very hard to concentrate on what's up ahead at that stage. Can't say I've ever felt that in a boat, the air usually makes me alert.

But I doubt fatigue played much of a part in this case, who knows? In rain and limited visibility, anything can happen. She couldn't see anything, but thought she was ok due to one reading. It wasn't a great choice. Personally, I've never, ever been sick or dizzy on a lake in a boat, driving or not. And I'm quite sure that I would never take a reading of 70' of water as an indication of being safe. Anyone that's ever boated on any lake knows that 70' can become deeper, or shallower, real quick. We have a spot out front here by a reef, it goes from almost 350' to 8' inside of a quarter mile.

All we can do now is take it all in, and realize that we're not as good as our minds think we are. We were told that as HS kids, again in college, and by adult age, everyone just hopes most of us listened. But in the end Ex, as an adult, I know that neither fatigue, nor alcohol was to blame here. Those two items are choices and actions made by the operator. Accidents can, and will, happen to even the most careful skipper. But each situation is different.

Everyone has their own common sense, or even sympathetic sense, of what this accident entailed. The details of the start to finish trip have all been laid out during the trial for all to see. All I can say after all of this is that the last picture I saw from court was a little disturbing, although many predicted it.

For the rest of us, we all know there are very serious responsibilities that come with piloting a boat of any kind. Nobody's perfect, but at least we try to take these things seriously.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by chillininnh

No amount of punishment levied upon her by a court of law and a jury of her peers will come close to the suffering she will endure living with the memory of this terrible tragedy.

1) Would you support a revocation of this captain's boating certificate?

2) If so—keeping in mind the summons-penalties—for how long?

Originally Posted by chipj29

There is nothing wrong (legally and morally) with having alcohol on a boat. Just because there is alcohol on a boat does not mean that the person piloting the boat has been drinking. It doesn't mean that anyone on the boat has been drinking. And it does not mean that any person on the boat is drunk.

The presence of alcohol on a boat means just one thing...that there is alcohol on a boat. Nothing more, nothing less. So yes, I am saying that as long as it is legal, it is perfectly acceptable.

1) Interesting insertion of morally into the debate: How about in automobiles? For truckers? For train engineers?

2) To ask the Union Leader's headline-question again:

"Horrible Accident or Drunken Crash?"

Keep in mind the following FACTS:

BAC of defendant Blizzard: .15
BAC of decedent Beaudoin: .14
BAC of injured-passenger Shinopoulos: .09

3) To the well-being of our fellow boaters, passengers and shoreline dwellers—while burdened with a Captain's responsibility, every one of us owes the highest and most-rigid of standards.

IMHO

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

1) Interesting insertion of morally into the debate: How about in automobiles? For truckers? For train engineers?

What is so morally wrong with me having alcohol in my vehicle, whether it be a boat or car? I won't argue with the truck or train, as those are completely different scenarios. One should not carry alcohol in a business vehicle. Where I work there are rules against that.

Again, the vehicle (my personal vehicle) is being used as transportation. It is perfectly legal. Alcohol is perfectly legal to purchase, transport and even drink. I know that is hard to believe, but it is still legal to drink alcohol. The horror.
If it was morally wrong for me to carry alcohol in my car, how would I get it home from the store?
If it was morally wrong for me to carry alcohol in my boat, how would I get it to my island home (if I had an island home for example)? How would I get it from my lakefront home, to a friends house where I was staying the night?

If alcohol was not morally acceptable, how would I drink the blessed sacrament in church?

Seriously APS, alcohol is legal and morally accepted by most people.

Let me give you one scenario here. I was driving home from work one Friday, and stopped to pick up a 30 pack to enjoy over the weekend, perhaps with some friends. While driving home from the store, I was pulled over for speeding. Other than a speeding ticket, what am I being charged with for transporting the alcohol to my house? What do my neighbors think of me for bringing home some beer...in my car?

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by chipj29

What is so morally wrong with me having alcohol in my vehicle, whether it be a boat or car?

For a moral opinion....talk to your moral adviser, ....for a legal opinion....New Hampshire has a state statute commonly known as the "open container law" which outlaws an open alcoholic beverage to be within the vehicle while on the road, and means an open beer can, wine bottle, liquor bottle with its' cork, tab, screw top, etc., being removed.

Understand you can purchase facsimile faux cans of soda that look like Coke or Pepsi that fit over a beer can and presumably disquise the open beer from the eyes of law enforcement but not necessarily from their noses.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Understand you can purchase facsimile faux cans of soda that look like Coke or Pepsi that fit over a beer can and presumably disquise the open beer from the eyes of law enforcement but not necessarily from their noses.

I Had NO IDEA about such an option. Never heard of such a thing. No need to. SO How would YOU know such things....?? Just wondering...???.............. NB

[fatlazyless]

...faux, slip-over disquiser cans?.....by reading about them in this forum.....like where else? ...and no doubt available on the internet. Ever notice how law enforcement tends to sniff beverage containers during traffic stops as they know about all the tricks...

[OCDACTIVE]

There hasn't been one substantial post regarding the case, in hand, in days.. Perhaps someone should start a alcohol and boating thread so that the continuous conjecture can stop.

There is nothing more that can be said that hasn't been said already until April 21st. So lets have some respect for everyone involved and move the conversation elsewhere.

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

There hasn't been one substantial post regarding the case, in hand, in days.. Perhaps someone should start a alcohol and boating thread so that the continuous conjecture can stop.

There is nothing more that can be said that hasn't been said already until April 21st. So lets have some respect for everyone involved and move the conversation elsewhere.

I would take issue with your statement...
I posed what I thought a very legit question.
And so, I ask you....
I've read many of your posts, and clearly you are a skilled/experienced boater. So tell me...under what circumstances, would you travel, at night, at 18MPH, in zero visibility, in a non emergency situation?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

I would take issue with your statement...
I posed what I thought a very legit question.
And so, I ask you....
I've read many of your posts, and clearly you are a skilled/experienced boater. So tell me...under what circumstances, would you travel, at night, at 18MPH, in zero visibility, in a non emergency situation?

Start a new thread and I will be happy to answer night driving questions, my habits etc.

Also it was not directed at you.. I have found this thread has become offensive in many posts (not yours) to those partys involved on both sides. Every bit of evidence that has been brought to light as been discussed, elaborated on, even speculated on to no ends.

To continue to discuss other issues under this topic in my opinion is disrespectful to the families and we should let it rest until there is any more information or news brought to light.

But again if you want to discuss night driving or alcohol in boats I would be more then happy to discuss my views and safety on the lake at your convenience. Just in a different thread.

[sunset on the dock]

Looks like someone thinks speed limits on our highways aren't necessary either. If I were writing a book I couldn't even dream this stuff up!

From Laconia Citizen.....citizen.com

Laconia:
Blizzard cited for going 84 mph while talking on cell phone

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Looks like someone thinks speed limits on our highways aren't necessary either. If I were writing a book I couldn't even dream this stuff up!

From Laconia Citizen.....citizen.com

Laconia:
Blizzard cited for going 84 mph while talking on cell phone

Link to the story:
http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...607/-1/CITIZEN

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Start a new thread and I will be happy to answer night driving questions, my habits etc.

Also it was not directed at you.. I have found this thread has become offensive in many posts (not yours) to those partys involved on both sides. Every bit of evidence that has been brought to light as been discussed, elaborated on, even speculated on to no ends.

To continue to discuss other issues under this topic in my opinion is disrespectful to the families and we should let it rest until there is any more information or news brought to light.

But again if you want to discuss night driving or alcohol in boats I would be more then happy to discuss my views and safety on the lake at your convenience. Just in a different thread.

OCDACTIVE:

It looks like there is some new information on Blizzard. Care to comment? Clearly she is a menace not only on our waterways but on our roadways. I'm sure it wasn't her fault maybe her gas pedal was defective like all those Toyota's. I think if I were her I'd also change my vanity plate, but that is just me.

[steadyon]

Unbelievable!!!
I am glad that she didn't run the cop down!
clearly she has a problem with obeying the laws.

[fatlazyless]

"XTREME" is her New Hampshire vanity license plate according to the news report in the Citizen on a large GM suv and it came close to hitting the state trooper who jumped out of the way as she was 84-mph and texting on a cell phone. If this saga becomes a Hollywood movie, me-thinks that Julia Roberts could be an excellent actress in character to portray Erica.

....talk about bad timing what with the recent court verdict, the Belknap County Prosecutor, the Belknap County Superior Court Judge, the New Hampshire State Trooper, the local news press, the public interest, and poor Erica and her defense attorney......sounds like it's definately ready to roll....and coming soon...to a movie theatre near you....

[topwater]

Ok, I'll say it!!! WHAT A PIECE OF WORK SHE IS !! she deserves everything she is going to get, which I hope includes the kitchen table thrown at her. I said it before and I will say it again, She was quilty then, and she is quilty now.
Ocdactive, I agree with you about this thread, IMHO she is not worth wasting any more of my time on. That is my last ( Perry Mason Moment )!

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

For a moral opinion....talk to your moral adviser, ....for a legal opinion....New Hampshire has a state statute commonly known as the "open container law" which outlaws an open alcoholic beverage to be within the vehicle while on the road, and means an open beer can, wine bottle, liquor bottle with its' cork, tab, screw top, etc., being removed.

Understand you can purchase facsimile faux cans of soda that look like Coke or Pepsi that fit over a beer can and presumably disquise the open beer from the eyes of law enforcement but not necessarily from their noses.

FLL, I know what the law is regarding OPEN containers. However that is not what APS and I were discussing. Nevermind the fact that there is NO law pertaining to open containers on boats.
I have made my point perfectly clear that the presence of alcohol means only that there was alcohol on the boat. That fact alone may of course raise suspicion that she was drinking, but it proves nothing.

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Chip:

She killed someone and she was drunk based upon scientific evidence, as APS aptly notes above. While the jury didn't find her guilty on two of the three charges, they didn't find her innocent either. The jury did find her guilty of negligently operating her boat.

The sentencing will be interesting. My guess is that the judge will go heavy on the jail time given that he likely wasn't fooled by Blizzard's slick attorney.

I don't disagree with you at all. My point goes back to before the trial ended, where we were discussing the fact that there was alcohol on the boat. See above.

I am not condoning her actions in anyway. I am only stating that there is nothing wrong with alcohol (open or unopen container) being present on a boat. Period.

[sa meredith]

Although I have been very critical of Erica's decision making in the past week or so, part of me felt sympathy for her...as we all (or at least me) have made poor choices in our lives from time to time.
To be very honest, many years back, I thought nothing of mixing alcohol with operating a boat/ automobile...although on the boat, was always very careful to limit drinking to one or two per 4 hours. In the car, well, not so much...
Anyway...to me, two things in the past week speak very loudly to her character.
1. Allowing herself to be seen with a huge smile on her face following the verdict. I'm quite sure her victim and the vicitim's family can no longer smile. Save the celebration for private quarters.
2. This latest story of speeding/ changing lanes with no signal/ using a cell phone/ generally not paying attention while driving in the third lane.
Was there an open beer in the center console??!!
What a blatant show of disrespect for a person who just caught, what I believe, to be a nice break. No OUI conviction, after testing at .15, and admitting drinking.
Go easy for a while, Erica. 65 MPH, limit going out in public, etc etc...
I love the comment about..."...gee, I haven't been stopped in a really long time." Really?! Anything else you'd care to disclose?

[john60ri]

Since the saga continues, one final comment: When a defense attorney has to represent a client who is guilty as sin, what he and the client have to do is make up a "story" which will hopefully paint the client in a more favorable light. I did not buy the part of the story about her speeding up because her passengers were feeling sick. Did not sound credible to me, but maybe that's the best they could come up with. Whatever story they presented to the jury, it worked pretty well, since she was convicted only of negligence, not drunkenness or recklessness. It's all speculation, of course, and as I said, I am not a boater. I would love to read the transcript of the trial. As to the speeding incident, makes me think we're dealing with a real narcissistic personality here.

[sunset on the dock]

But let's give credit where credit is due...at least there was no report of any handgun in the car.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by john60ri

"...When a defense attorney has to represent a client who is guilty as sin, what he and the client have to do is make up a "story" which will hopefully paint the client in a more favorable light..."

First, the court has the witness sworn—or, today, "affirmed"—to:

"Tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".

That said, Perjury is probably the least-enforced law on the books.

Second: That would be illegal for a lawyer. It is called "suborning of witnesses", and resulted in the recent impeachment of a President. (No conviction resulted).

IMO, in today's P-C world, the "vetting" of ALL Presidents has gone AWOL.

Originally Posted by NoBozo

I Had NO IDEA about such an option. Never heard of such a thing. No need to. SO How would YOU know such things....?? Just wondering...???.............. NB

The link is now broken, but FLL did, indeed, read of the "hiding a beer can" wrapper here:



Sold for the "discreet" boater.

It appeared about when Lake Norman, previously cited, departed from its "dry" county status. (Shortly after becoming a "wet" county, an airborne boat departed the lake, hit a guard rail, was hit by a car, spun, and flipped over onto its passengers (!) on Interstate 77.

Serious injuries resulted and beer cans were strewn in the median.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=263602_263622

Today, for partying on a boat, you can also buy a "bong cover"!

With legal open containers on a boat, a legal firearm on a boat, with possibly stoned and legally-drunken passengers on a boat, may I be excused if I "wave-off" any future rescues?

[Lake Lady 6]

On 4/8/10 at about 5 p.m. I was driving north from Manchester on Rt. 93 on cruise control at 68 mph. I saw an SUV coming in the passing lane going much faster than I was driving. As it passed me and I estimated to my passenger that it was going at least 80 mph I glanced at the number plate - you guessed it Xtreme, black SUV. Of course Ms Blizzard wasn't driving it as she has been told by the Court not to drive - but apparently whoever was driving has the same driving habits - can't say if they were on the cell phone however.

[tony1122]

Put the plate over the jail cell

[jeffk]

I haven't commented since the verdict so I might as well throw my 2 cents into the ante. I thought she would be convicted of negligence from the beginning. There is a HUGE responsibility on the operator of a boat to operate it flawlessly. Essentially, if there is a collision it is very difficult to avoid some type of responsibility for the collision. Since a death was involved this makes it even more of an issue. On a night that was described as extremely poor visibility it makes no sense to be traveling on plane. A prudent person would have been operating at headway speed. Further, I haven't seen why she wasn't using GPS? I know others have said theirs isn't always reliable but my experience has been very good with with mine. I might get a 10 ft error so I could hit a marker if I was cutting things too close, but an island? Sorry, not in my experience. When I am out at night I use GPS and sight to navigate. If either one fails I drop off plane to get my bearings. On the other hand if I have a clear GPS track and I can visually confirm it I am comfortable cruising at 45 MPH.

I am not against drinking but there is just no excuse for irresponsibility. Her BAC show she was legally drunk. My guess is the jury let her off on the alcohol conviction because they felt she was already paying a high price and would face jail time with the negligence conviction alone. It's not what the jury should have done but juries can make those kind of decisions. I think the challenges of night boating are significant. I drink very lightly on nights I am out, only one drink, possibly a second if I know I will be not leaving for a few hours. I don't need the extra disorientation at night. I think that's what a responsible boater should do. She was not acting responsibly.

I think she made a lot of stupid and even arrogant choices and her friend is dead because of it. She is going to pay a high price for her behavior. I'm not out for vengeance. I think it is a tragic situation for everyone involved but she has to accept the responsibility for her actions.

The driving incident underscores her mindset. 84 is pushing it pretty good. Using a cell phone in the manner described is foolish. She does what she wants and doesn't consider the cost. I guess after going through the accident I would have expected her to have become more circumspect. Sad.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

OCDACTIVE:

It looks like there is some new information on Blizzard. Care to comment? Clearly she is a menace not only on our waterways but on our roadways. I'm sure it wasn't her fault maybe her gas pedal was defective like all those Toyota's. I think if I were her I'd also change my vanity plate, but that is just me.

this is not new information concerning the tragic loss of life from a boating accident.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

...faux, slip-over disquiser cans?.....by reading about them in this forum.....like where else? ...and no doubt available on the internet. Ever notice how law enforcement tends to sniff beverage containers during traffic stops as they know about all the tricks...

NOPE: Can't say I have ever noticed law enforcement "Sniffing' beverage containers during traffic stops. Havn't been in a Traffic Stop since I was a teenager...maybe around 1961 or so. Maybe I need to get Stopped to get up to date. NB

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by chipj29

What is so morally wrong with me having alcohol in my vehicle, whether it be a boat or car? I won't argue with the truck or train, as those are completely different scenarios. One should not carry alcohol in a business vehicle. Where I work there are rules against that.

Again, the vehicle (my personal vehicle) is being used as transportation. It is perfectly legal. Alcohol is perfectly legal to purchase, transport and even drink. I know that is hard to believe, but it is still legal to drink alcohol. The horror.
If it was morally wrong for me to carry alcohol in my car, how would I get it home from the store?
If it was morally wrong for me to carry alcohol in my boat, how would I get it to my island home (if I had an island home for example)? How would I get it from my lakefront home, to a friends house where I was staying the night?

If alcohol was not morally acceptable, how would I drink the blessed sacrament in church?

Seriously APS, alcohol is legal and morally accepted by most people.

Let me give you one scenario here. I was driving home from work one Friday, and stopped to pick up a 30 pack to enjoy over the weekend, perhaps with some friends. While driving home from the store, I was pulled over for speeding. Other than a speeding ticket, what am I being charged with for transporting the alcohol to my house? What do my neighbors think of me for bringing home some beer...in my car?

Chip:

She killed someone and she was drunk based upon scientific evidence, as APS aptly notes above. While the jury didn't find her guilty on two of the three charges, they didn't find her innocent either. The jury did find her guilty of negligently operating her boat.

The sentencing will be interesting. My guess is that the judge will go heavy on the jail time given that he likely wasn't fooled by Blizzard's slick attorney.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

1) Would you support a revocation of this captain's boating certificate?

2) If so—keeping in mind the summons-penalties—for how long?


1) Interesting insertion of morally into the debate: How about in automobiles? For truckers? For train engineers?

2) To ask the Union Leader's headline-question again:

"Horrible Accident or Drunken Crash?"

Keep in mind the following FACTS:



3) To the well-being of our fellow boaters, passengers and shoreline dwellers—while burdened with a Captain's responsibility, every one of us owes the highest and most-rigid of standards.

IMHO

APS, I will be completely honest and say that 95% of the times that my boat is on the water, there is alcohol on board. I will also tell you that 100% of the time the operator is sober.

You seem to have focused on the "on board" part. Standards should not include (or in this place preclude) what can be carried onboard a boat, tractor trailer or automobile.

Please understand I have no tolerance for drunk operators. I think Ms. Blizzard got off easy legally.

A good operator is a good operator and what he/she carries on board will not change that. Of course, the opposite is true.