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#1 |
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None of these posts can be of personal knowledge and even if there were several survivors that were on the vessel that night I would bet they would have differing accounts of the incident. That is the nature of individual observations based on each persons life-long experiences.
If it is upsetting to read peoples opinions in a semi-public forum you should not do it. You are now judging and condeming everyone on the thread by your standards and opinion and doing the same activity that you are complaning about. There is a benefit to venting and sharing opinions through discussions. The process of composing a post takes an effort that includes writing your thoughts. Some postings are better than others but each one does allow the poster to practice a style of communication that insures we will not forget the horrible event and hopefully prevent future accidents. To your point - There are some that comdem the people and I do agree that is the courts job but there were many that speculate on the facts and by doing so it forces one to contemplate or reflect what they would do in that situation. There are some posts that many found insulting and boil your blood but try to skip over them or respond if moved to. I personally believe 80% add value and advance the experience of Winnipesaukee. JMHO. |
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#2 |
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Great post Noregrets.
Frankly, we now have a verdict. The court system has done its job and justice has been determined. Why do people continue to make posts that are only hurting all those involved. There is nothing more productive that can come from this thread. The conjecture and speculations have been drawn out to no end and now it is just becoming shameless. Lets have some respect for all those involved and finally put this entire situation behind us and learn from what has happened. I would think that if other issues have been shut down because there is no more productive comments that can be made then this is another case where the same respect and logic should also be stopped. I would hope that this thread would be shut down now that it is finally over.
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#3 |
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What would it cost to establish a Lighted Mark on the southwest corner of Diamond Island...maybe just like the one on Parker Island.
Whenever I transit from Wolfeboro to Winter Harbor at night I ALWAYS go outside the island ..using that fixed lighted mark, just to be safe, rather than try and find the unlighted marks on the inside channel that I use in daylight. Just wondering. ![]() |
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#4 | |
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#5 |
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I am absolutely appalled (yet not surprised) at most of the comments that have been posted in the article on unionleader.com regarding the outcome of this trial. Disgusting in every way.
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#6 | |
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Having a light bouy on The Broads side of Diamond Island is a good one. Even on a good night Diamond can be missed. One item suggested a couple of years ago and I feel has merits is making Cattle Landing Pass a no wake zone on weekends. This area is very busy and I have seen too many near misses. Another item is to allow overnight stay in inclement weather at all public docks in NH. Twice I was ask to leave. Both in different towns. One night it was raining so hard, the MP tied up to the dock. And I was TOLD to leave. Another night, the LEO gave me a ticket on the spot. I would rather pay the ticket than try to navigate The Broads in pea soup fog. In the name of safety you should be allowed to stay. I strongly feel, replacing 'Reasonable and Prudent' with USCG Rule 6. 'Reasonable and Prudent' is a vague statement. Rule 6 will give the MP 'more teeth' when being challenge in the courts. Feel free to let me know of your thoughts.
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#7 |
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There already is one on the Broads side; FL25 off the end of Rattlesnake is a good landmark. I'd like to see one just southwest of the southwest corner of Diamond Island. It would be a perfect place for one as you head from FL71/FL28 at the witches toward Alton Bay. Presently, Diamond Island hides FL24 by Treasure Island, so it's tough to get a visual fix on a good waypoint. With a light where NoBozo suggested, you could easily make your way from one FL to the next, like you can heading up into Center Harbor from the Broads (FL7 to FL83 to FL6 to FL5), or heading into Alton Bay from the Broads (FL22 to FL67 to FL23). I love having the FLs to confirm that I am on the course that my chartplotter says I am.
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#8 | |
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I was reading your dock stories and thinking about the trial. If they found the visibilty too bad and anchored until it improved, they would be breaking the law against anchoring a houseboat at night. Now a ticket for illegal anchoring is worth it to avoid death and injury, but the law should not encourage bad choices. |
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#9 | |
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![]() But WAIT: I know this is Against The Law ...and I don't need a hassle from the WPD or the MP tonight. SO: I get underway. After all, I don't have ANY visions of Death and Destruction on my mind. It will probably be an unpleasent trip..but I'm confident I can get to where I'm going......... Just Too Much Common Sense goin on here. SO: Who WINS..?? ![]() Last edited by NoBozo; 03-19-2010 at 06:26 PM. |
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#10 | |
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#11 | |
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Not trying to raise a ruckus..just some thought...maybe learn something ...NB |
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#12 |
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Just a quick thought/question I have, as this thread seems to be starting to wind down... I have my own opinion on the matter, and without a long detailed post, would simply state that I believe justice is not being served. If her financial situation was different, I believe the outcome would be quite different...but when you can afford the best defense lawyers that money can buy...well you tend to get better results.
Anyway...my question... I have plenty of boating experience on the lake...encountered my share of tough situations, made mistakes navigating, been caught if terrible weather...normal stuff every boater has experienced. But all in the day time. I have never boated at night, and would really not know the first thing about it. There has been much discussion about Erica coming off plane when visibilty went to zero, but because of the boat getting tossed, she decided to throttle back up a bit. So, I ask, when visibility is zero...AT NIGHT, BY THE WAY... when would it ever be a good idea to travel above headway speed?! You can't see...don't know what might be floating in the water ahead of you, but power up because people are not feeling well? "Lean over the side and toss, and while you're there, shout out if you happen to see anything". Really though...is driving the boat at 18 MPH in zero visibilty an accepted practice? Curious what boaters with more experince than me might think. |
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#13 |
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I would docked or anchor the boat and wait. I have done that a number of times. When I anchor off shore, it does not seem to be a problem. The MP seems to realize the safety issue. It is the town LEOs at public docks that are telling you to move on.
On the other hand, if I had radar, lorance, or GPS, it may have been different. I still need a proper look out.
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#14 |
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I know that if I am in my boat and the visibility is zero I would never go above headway speed and I would have my spotlight in use. I have been on the lake over 30 years and know that it is very easy to get disoriented very easily in the fog. Even with gps caution is necessary.
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#15 | |
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#16 | |
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#17 |
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trfour Always Remember, The Best Safety Device In The Boat, or on a PWC Snowmobile etc., Is YOU! Safe sledding tips and much more; http://www.snowmobile.org/snowmobiling-safety.html |
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#18 |
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From my experience at sea (well away from land and lights) on a dark night. This doesn't affect everybody. It doesn't happen to me...BUT..some people are affected by loss of visual orientation ...boat rockin and rollin combined with the loss of a Visible Horizon.......resulting in Sea Sickness. Thats puking.
It has something to do with the inner ear..equalibrium..lack of a visual horizon combination. I can't explain the particulars. I have seen Macho guys turn to MUSH under these conditions. ![]() My Advice: Do NOT go down into the cabin..night or day..if you feel sea sick. Stay OUT in the cockpit with fresh air and a visual horizon. ![]() |
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#19 |
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Great segway SAmeredith and maybe this could start a new thread.
GPS places you on the breadcrumbs you left behind and shows the map with your position on it so by itself you can move providing you have visibility so I agree with BCI. Radar will pick up other movable objects when visibility becomes impared. You must become familiar and practice - practice - and practice with this equipment ao you can adjust for rain, humidity, and waves to maximize your accuracy. When tuned for the condition you can become fairly safe. Most radars can also set alarms if it picks up on an object in a configured zone. I will create 2 zones around 300 feet and 500 feet ahead of me and an audible alarm goes off if a marker, boat, obstruction or anything that reflects the radar comes within the zones as we are under way. On one occasion my alarm triggered and0 it was a flock of ducks. Did I emphasize that PRACTICE is imperative? It is easy to become disoriented in fog even with the equipment so that is when the compass and chart become important. One time I was sure I was looking in one direction but all my equipment told me otherwise. It was a bad feeling so I shut down competely and verified with all my equipment and I was wrong. I am sure there are other possibilities and use of teh equipment but I do find it liberating and exhilerating to navigate in all types of conditions. With my current knowledge and experience I would NOT go on plane without radar in limited visibility conditions. This includes bright sunshine. The poorest condition we encountered was leaving Center Harbor and we could not see the end of the bow. It took us over 2 hours of focused navigation to get to the back side of Governer's Island. We were very confident we were safe and posed no danger to anyone elso. As soon as we got into the broads the fog lifted. Great experience. Erica's testomy included a statement that the conditions were getting her passengers sick so she decided to pick up the speed (paraphrased by me) was interesting and it is true that headway speed in waves can be awful. I would think a faster "plowing" approach with the bow up would stablize the rocking sensation but if you hit an object at that speed (maybe 8- 12 MPH) the results would be different. Not judging but just pondering. What do you all think. Thanks for the post SAMeredith. Ice Out Monday!!!! maybe? |
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#20 |
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After reading some of the posts today......it's clear we didn't even need that jury.....these folks have it all figured out.Why even bother with a trial when we have so many experts right here?
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#21 | |
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My honest thought is that thereis just too much evidence that alcohol played a rolled here...way too much. The .15 alone would normally be enough. But the right attorney can show any evidence to be circumstancial...and that's what I believe happened here. Maybe I'm wrong. But here is a captain who grew up on the lake. She can probably navigate and operate a large boat as well,if not better,than anyone who reads this forum. And yet we are to believe she made the decisions that she did, with a clear head? Doesn't add up. I think many people in the area know her, and consider her a friend, so they get their ire up when they comment on this matter. But the events of the evening seem to have taken a course that intoxication would explain. Not trying to offend anyone. This is just my opinion. |
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#22 | |
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![]() Last edited by ApS; 03-22-2010 at 07:13 PM. Reason: Add "it" to title :o |
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#23 | |
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The presence of alcohol on a boat means just one thing...that there is alcohol on a boat. Nothing more, nothing less. So yes, I am saying that as long as it is legal, it is perfectly acceptable.
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#24 |
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Alcohol does a good job of removing ink marks from vinyl upholstery, plus it cleans paint brushes used with BIN primer-sealer. Two excellent reasons to carry alcohol on board
![]() For a skipper out navigat'n in a $150,000 Formula 370 SS, maintaining a good supply of Grey Goose would most certainly be an appropriate application ![]()
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#25 | |
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#26 | |
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![]() I think the Formula is a lot closer to $400k than 200k. It's a fashionable express cruiser. I could use my boat as a tender for it ![]() |
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#27 | |||
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![]() 2) If so—keeping in mind the summons-penalties—for how long? ![]() Quote:
![]() ![]() 2) To ask the Union Leader's headline-question again: ![]() Quote:
IMHO Last edited by ApS; 03-24-2010 at 06:14 PM. Reason: Had transposed BACs: corrected... |
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#28 | |
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Again, the vehicle (my personal vehicle) is being used as transportation. It is perfectly legal. Alcohol is perfectly legal to purchase, transport and even drink. I know that is hard to believe, but it is still legal to drink alcohol. The horror. ![]() If it was morally wrong for me to carry alcohol in my car, how would I get it home from the store? If it was morally wrong for me to carry alcohol in my boat, how would I get it to my island home (if I had an island home for example)? How would I get it from my lakefront home, to a friends house where I was staying the night? If alcohol was not morally acceptable, how would I drink the blessed sacrament in church? Seriously APS, alcohol is legal and morally accepted by most people. Let me give you one scenario here. I was driving home from work one Friday, and stopped to pick up a 30 pack to enjoy over the weekend, perhaps with some friends. While driving home from the store, I was pulled over for speeding. Other than a speeding ticket, what am I being charged with for transporting the alcohol to my house? What do my neighbors think of me for bringing home some beer...in my car? ![]()
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#29 | |
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You seem to have focused on the "on board" part. Standards should not include (or in this place preclude) what can be carried onboard a boat, tractor trailer or automobile. Please understand I have no tolerance for drunk operators. I think Ms. Blizzard got off easy legally. A good operator is a good operator and what he/she carries on board will not change that. Of course, the opposite is true. |
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#30 | |
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#31 |
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Whatever... These two look pretty darn happy to me. Probably relieved that it's finally over.
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...NTPAGE/3190304 |
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#32 | |
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Originally posted by RI Swamp Yankee
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#33 |
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Not at all, SA...I've always enjoyed your posts. That was kind of tongue in cheek, referring to the fact that none of us were privy to the information that the jury got in order to render a decision.
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#34 |
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True, it just points out what the prudent, experienced would/should do.
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#35 | |
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Last edited by PC31; 03-12-2011 at 02:16 PM. |
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#37 | |
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Strange, but I'll bite... Visibilty was simply as far as the eye can see...bright sunny day. No real reason to not be cruising along. There were no beer can/bottles empty/full on board. No booze of any kind. I had not spent 5 hours in a bar that day. I had consumed no alcohol in the previous 24 hours. Realizing my insanely stupid/ careless error, I STOPPED IN TIME! I don't want to do battle with you...really. But you think these are the same things? Honestly...my only real questions here, are given her amount of experience (which I believe to be substancial), how can she have made some of the deciisons that she did. Really, it comes down just one decision...she stated visibility went to zero...but powered back up because her passengers were feeling ill. That does not sound like the logic of a clear thinking person. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. |
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#38 | |
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RULE 6 SAFE SPEED Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions. I tend to value their opinion and experience.
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#39 | |
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So which is it, are the poor under-served, or are the wealthy over-served? I've certainly heard detailed accounts of over-zealous public prosecutors that have put innocent people (and by innocent I mean people later acquitted by DNS evidence, etc.) away because those people couldn't afford a proper defense. Can you blame someone for using all of their available resources to try to escape a conviction? Do you think in this case Erica should have gone with a public defender? Would you do things differently if you were in the same position with the same resources?
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#40 | |
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Well, using that same logic, let's not be naive and think that a judge and jury cannnot be mislead, by a sharp lawyer, who can make the evidence look exactly the way he wants it to. See: OJ. In this case, admitted they were in bar for 5 hours, admitted they were drinking, had booze and empties on board, tested at .15, made very poor decisions that a normal thinking person would have a hard time agreeing with...but OUI? Of course not. |
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