What Speed Limit ????????

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by elchase

It's a big problem down under too;
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/con...8/s2232602.htm
Can you imagine that over 22 people were killed in high-speed boating accidents right in Sydney's harbor in just seven years? Amazing.

I wonder how many people have been killed on their roadways in the same time period?

What are you getting at? Do you think that boating can be legislated down to a level where it is fully NERF'd?

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

"High rate of speed" seems a little bit open to interpretation

This is a great point. But when we have a defined limit, there is no need for interpretation. And when a violator flaunts the law, he can be convicted.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by elchase

This is a great point. But when we have a defined limit, there is no need for interpretation. And when a violator flaunts the law, he can be convicted.

There is still need for interpretation if someone did not witness the event and capture some sort of data to prove how fast the boat was going.

In some cases, where there is structural damage and other things to reconstruct the data from, you may stand some chance of getting a conviction based on a speed factor.

In the case of this accident, you would be very hard pressed to ever prove speed conclusively enough to get a conviction.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

It's coming.... All it takes is one Representative who needs to get elected and loves to hear themselves talk. Then they champion a cause, such as the illustrious baseless SL law on Winni and whamo! Governing speed of snowmobiles is next I can feel it. Unfortunately they are sometimes noisy and they do go fast, and that scares people.

Its the scaring rush we are looking for! Just can tramatize the deer!

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

There is still need for interpretation if someone did not witness the event and capture some sort of data to prove how fast the boat was going.

Of course. But this is true for any crime. If you can't prove how fast a car was going, you can't convict the driver of speeding. If you can't prove a murderer murdered someone, you can't convict him of murder. But at least when you have the law and you can prove the offense, you can convict. One thing for sure; if you don't have the law you can't convict even when you can prove the offense.
Besides, most Americans are law abiding and will respect a law simply because it tells them what behavior society has deemed appropriate.

A 17 year old girl was killed in this high speed crash into a jetty; http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...rutiny/1042107

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by elchase

Of course. But this is true for any crime. If you can't prove how fast a car was going, you can't convict the driver of speeding. If you can't prove a murderer murdered someone, you can't convict him of murder. But at least when you have the law and you can prove the offense, you can convict. One thing for sure; if you don't have the law you can't convict even when you can prove the offense.
Besides, most Americans are law abiding and will respect a law simply because it tells them what behavior society has deemed appropriate.

A 17 year old girl was killed in this high speed crash into a jetty; http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...rutiny/1042107

Yet in most of these cases, laws already exist for operation under influence of alcohol (most common contributing factor by far), negligent operation, homicide/manslaughter, etc. How many laws do you think are necessary and practical?

The link you reference above also points out alcohol as a contributing factor. That and the fact that the jetty itself has been the centerpoint of many night time accidents (likely due to the fact that it is unlit).

Saying that a speed limit here would have made any difference is a tough sell. You might as well draw the conclusion that boats cause accidents, and so therefore boats should be outlawed.

[DEJ]

Perhaps we should require deer to have ezpass also!!!

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Yet in most of these cases, laws already exist ....
The link you reference above also points out alcohol as a contributing factor.

And it points out that speed was also a contributing factor. Darkness, weather, and waves are often contributors too, but we can't control those. What we can try our best to control is the human factors; like speed and alcohol. By the logic you are apparently using, should we not have laws against DUI just because we still have a few who break them? If we did not have those laws, then those who are caught breaking them can't be convicted at all. If this guy was just below the limit, he might have walked. If he had fled the seen and waited two days until his blood cleared to turn himself in, he might have walked. A speed limit might not always prevent the accident or be enforceable in every case, but it is another deterrent and can often be another tool for the prosecutors.
If there were no offenders we would not need any laws at all...but unfortunately, and as this forum shows so often, there is always going to be a handful of scofflaws. We saw this summer and last on Winnipesaukee that when the MP is measuring speeds, almost all boaters keep their speeds reasonable...and that will always save lives.

[hazelnut]

el,

While I applaud your efforts to prove your point (borderline flooding aside)most of the articles do lack hard numbers. "High Rate of speed" "Too Fast" "High Speed" could mean 25, 45, 55, 105, who knows. Also, percentage wise this probably wouldn't even register on any scale. .00000004% or something in terms of an issue of safety. Also you are digging and I mean digging. Look at the dates on these articles. This data hardly supports a law. If you want I'll cull the data for you and make a graph but we're looking at tiny tiny numbers here. Never mind the fact that there is nothing even close to being local. So while you keep digging keep in mind that all you are doing is furthering the stereotypical SL supporters Modus operandi and that is fear mongering. All these flooded posts amount to is a smattering of events scattered throughout several years globally. I mean you're even citing Australia here. I understand what you are trying to prove here but it falls short of any "proof" that Lake Winnipesaukee itself needs a speed limit. Boating can be dangerous, period end of sentence. The only way to guarantee the prevention of death by water/boating is to stay on the shore. So please go ahead on your fear campaign while the rest of us actually figure out how to make our lake safer.

I'll say it again as I've said it a thousand times. I don't own a GFBL boat I have no intentions of EVER EVER EVER buying one. I swear to god. I just want legislation that works. Not a feel good useless law that occupies time and resources that target a percentage of boaters on the lake that I feel are safe drivers already. I wish you could actually believe and understand that I gain or lose nothing personally from this law. I continued to boat as I normally boated every year as I have for 25+ years on this lake. Only I saw NO DIFFERENCE this year and it pissed me off. I was continually aggravated by discourteous inexperienced boaters putting themselves and my family in danger. None of these people were breaking any Speed Limit.

I just feel that "your side" is setting safety on the lake back decades all under the guise of ridding the lake of what your group considers undesirables. It's a dangerous gamble to take. You pretend that the lake got safer and ignore the real fact that it hasn't. So while I am happy for you that YOU are happy with your new law, I think it is unfortunate that the real issues of safety on the lake will go on ignored while you celebrate. If you actually cared about safety on the lake you would want to address the actual problems on the lake.

Thanks
H

[OCDACTIVE]

I don't know what he's been saying but if it's the same old rehtoric as usual, GREAT response Hazelnut.. See you next summer on the water!

[BroadHopper]

Ever since I put el on the ignore list, I often wonder what he's been up to.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Ever since I put el on the ignore list, I often wonder what he's been up to.

Tell me about it.... it just shows you one bad apple can ruin the bunch.. There used to be some good productive conversations on both sides of the isle... Bear Islander was one of the leading contributers... But I haven't heard from them in so long. Even sunset had some good comments. While I may not have agreed with their views they did it in a very productive manner.. Hopefully over time they will come back.

[DEJ]

Same here. At times I almost want to take him off my ignore list but I think it is better left this way.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Same here. At times I almost want to take him off my ignore list but I think it is better left this way.

It's too bad it doesn't eliminate all posts like the ones people quote.. but there haven't been too many of those either so no worries.

[OCDACTIVE]

just a matter of time before a new name appears.. LMAO!

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by elchase

Only one of the five passengers got killed in this high-speed crash...the other passengers were only injured. I bet it would have been a lot less tragic, or even avoided, had they been going 45;
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/200...t_crash_a.html

I'm sure you read everything regarding the accident, and the outcome of not only the accident, but what came of it.

First, the NJPBC and Dave P worked through the problem with authorities to help with safety. Most powerboaters supported extra enforcement, which was passed. Additional enforcement was needed, especially given that the accident occurred in a NWZ. Yes, a NWZ, not prominent in media reports, nor mentioned in speed limit supporter discussions on the accident.

You see El, there are some great people out there that support safe boating, and live safely. They have no preset agenda, only common sense. If Winni had a Dave P to help out there, no question the lake would be far better off than with all the Winfabs nonsense.

You post these old accidents, many of which have been researched to death by some of the very people you vilify. They offer solutions that can definitely help all boaters, you do not.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by DEJ

How about hover crafts and air boats, they can go pretty fast as well, perhaps laws need to be passed to slow them down as well.

We hit 105 in my winter airboat on GPS between Diamond and Welch a few years back when I had it. The conditions were perfect, smooth, light snow cover and brisk. I probably could have gone faster.

I don't recall passing any speed limit signs...

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by elchase

TB,
You forgot to wink. Better hurry up and add it before they start quoting you and including you in their numbers.

Good point, and I've already noticed a thankyou for the post from an unlikely forum member, though it could be another case of TUI.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Good point, and I've already noticed a thankyou for the post from an unlikely forum member, though it could be another case of TUI.

That was me... Hey when your right your right.. I always give thanks when thanks is due..

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by codeman671

We hit 105 in my winter airboat on GPS between Diamond and Welch a few years back when I had it. The conditions were perfect, smooth, light snow cover and brisk. I probably could have gone faster.

I don't recall passing any speed limit signs...

very impressive!..

careful you don't hit open water and skim.. then it would be an issue

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

very impressive!..

careful you don't hit open water and skim.. then it would be an issue

That boat was made for it. It could transition from ice to water and back without skipping a beat. It wasn't a flat bottom Florida style. Sunset bob has some good pics of it in his album.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Ummmm excuse me but I do believe there are limits for snowmobiles... I am calling the fish and game. Don't you know you will be terrorizing the ice fisherman? This could severly damage their well being and ruin the peace and tranquility! It isn't like you won't see them coming from 3 miles out.... I think I should start a poll that is designed only to come out in my favor because safety may be compromised..

Example:

Q: Mr. Smith, have you ever snowmobiled?
A: No
Q: have you ever been to lake winnipesaukee?
A: No
Q: Don't you think traveling over 40 mph in a congested walmart parking lot could be considered dangerous to the general public because you may hit children.
A: Of course
Q: Do you think that this should also apply to snowmobilers on a lake?
A: Yes
Q: So I can assume you would be in favor of speed limits
A: Yes

Thank you for your time.

I heard something interesting this AM on the radio on the way to work. It had to do with a poll on legalizing gambling in a certain state and how support seemed uncertain and varied with education, college educated more in opposition than non college educated and blah blah blah but it struck me as funny, and I said to myself..."hey, they should only be polling gamblers...how can someone who has never gambled be allowed to decide such a matter" (according to Winni.com forum rules, of course)

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

I heard something interesting this AM on the radio on the way to work. It had to do with a poll on legalizing gambling in a certain state and how support seemed uncertain and varied with education, college educated more in opposition than non college educated and blah blah blah but it struck me as funny, and I said to myself..."hey, they should only be polling gamblers...how can someone who has never gambled be allowed to decide such a matter" (according to Winni.com forum rules, of course)

Sunset.. valid point.. A very good example... However, I feel that gambling is understood more so by the general public then a specific body of water that someone may have no experience with. Would you agree?

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Sunset.. valid point.. A very good example... However, I feel that gambling is understood more so by the general public then a specific body of water that someone may have no experience with. Would you agree?

No analogy will be perfect, but it seems that some on the forum are unwilling to admit that swimmers, elderly people who may wish to just sit on the dock (my parents), people who live near the lake(and for that matter, all NH taxpayers because their taxes are affected by tourist dollars), ...really just about anyone in NH should have a say as well(and even kayakers and sailors).

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

No analogy will be perfect, but it seems that some on the forum are unwilling to admit that swimmers, elderly people who may wish to just sit on the dock (my parents), people who live near the lake(and for that matter, all NH taxpayers because their taxes are affected by tourist dollars), ...really just about anyone in NH should have a say as well(and even kayakers and sailors).

Yes and No. I do agree all recreational users of this lake should have say. No matter what their favorite activities are. That is where I draw the line. I just don't see any validity to a poll that asks the question of a person who has absolutely no knowledge of the subject matter at hand other that what the polls leading questions led them to believe.

I used the “headlight use at night” example a while back. Any boater with any clue with regard to nighttime operation of a vessel understands how dangerous it would be to operate with “headlights” on the lake. However, I proposed that I could formulate a question in a poll that would most definitely return results that would favor nighttime headlight use as an issue of safety. If I were to poll the entire state of New Hampshire I am positive my numbers would reflect support of such a proposal. Conversely I believe that the educated recreational users of this lake would mostly return an emphatic NO to that silly question.

Resident: Hello?

Me: Good Evening Ma’am

Resident: Good Evening

Me: May I have a moment of your time?

Resident: Why, what is this about?

Me: Ma’am this is a poll regarding safety on our inland waterways.

Resident: Well of course I have time for that I am a concerned citizen that cares about safety.

Me: Good. Ma’am are you aware that there are no current laws on the books requiring boaters to use headlights at night while operating their boats.

Resident: Oh my goodness! There isn’t?

Me: Would you support a law that would require boaters to use headlights while they operate at night?

Resident: Of course I would! Why would they ever even think about not using headlights at night? That seems so dangerous.

Me: Thank you for your time Ma’am.

[Kracken]

Sunset I would have to respectfully disagree with your analogy.

Polling gamblers to find out if they wanted the state to pass legislation to make gaming legal would be more like polling Winnfabs to find their views on the speed limit.

But seriously,

Gaming would have an effect on just about everyone in the state whereas the speed limits on Winnipesaukee effects only a small percentage of the population.

[gtagrip]

I think someone has to much time on their hands after spending 600+ hours boating on the lake this year, now that the boating season is some what over!:

Two dead in this one;
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...368981679.html

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

No analogy will be perfect, but it seems that some on the forum are unwilling to admit that swimmers, elderly people who may wish to just sit on the dock (my parents), people who live near the lake(and for that matter, all NH taxpayers because their taxes are affected by tourist dollars), ...really just about anyone in NH should have a say as well(and even kayakers and sailors).

I agree, although this analogy was very good.

I will agree with you to a point that everyone in NH has a right to a say being taxpayers. However my issue is many also are unwilling to admit that this forum may give a better sample of individuals who understand the lake and the laws that govern it.

if you look at the number of people who have voted, it isn't even close. Now if you subtract out this phantom # of people that came in from other sites (which I believe is not true or if it is makes any signficant differenc), subtract out any duplicate votes, It still shows that predominantly it is not wanted IF you had to choose one way or the other.

Now that being said I do feel that after the compromise poll was shown that there are more people wanting a compromise then those wanting all or nothing.

As far as those you say (people on the dock, residents, etc) You have to look at how many people have voted! If you count up all the people who have contributed in the speed limit forums over the past 6 months it may account for 50 people at a max 100. You can't say that eveyone who voted does not represent people around the lake. Also, after the poll was done showing how fast your boat goes MOST people don't have a GFB or are directly effected. So why does their votes not count as part of those you say are not being counted.

You have said time and time again that those people on your road contribute to winnfabs and want the speed limit. Those on mine do not want them. Does that mean that I should think the majority of people on the whole lake does not want them? Absolutely not. There are different sections of the lake and cultures. Many people are attracted to those people with similar tastes and likes. This may be why your road are supporters and my opposers.

[Kracken]

And here is another one: http://www.topix.com/forum/source/va...7PEUK030VHD8US

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Kracken

And here is another one: http://www.topix.com/forum/source/va...7PEUK030VHD8US

Fairly predictable, not terribly cerebral...if you don't like the message, call the messenger a troll.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Kracken

And here is another one: http://www.topix.com/forum/source/va...7PEUK030VHD8US

Wow great article.. Almost scarey how right it is huh?

PS (not you sunset)

[Kracken]

You are right Sunset, I should not have stooped to that level.

It is obvious by the frequency of Mr. Chase’s posts he is attempting to get the speed limit threads shut down and I should not have responded in that way.

Thank you for pointing that out.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by elchase

Two dead in this one;
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...368981679.html

January 28, 2008 - Melbourne, Australia

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by elchase

This guy killed his 25 yr old passenger by taking him for a boat ride that was a little too fast;
http://www.midwestboatparty.com/foru...ead.php?t=5594

2005 - Missouri

Arizona...one more dead...it's happening all over the country...all over the world! Nobody is immune from the carnage;
http://www.havasunews.com/articles/2...d031110264.txt

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by elchase

Arizona...one more dead...it's happening all over the country...all over the world! Nobody is immune from the carnage;
http://www.havasunews.com/articles/2...d031110264.txt

Irrelevant.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by elchase

Arizona...one more dead...it's happening all over the country...all over the world! Nobody is immune from the carnage;
http://www.havasunews.com/articles/2...d031110264.txt

Oh my god, "the sky is falling!"

[chmeeee]

Originally Posted by elchase

It's a big problem down under too;
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/con...8/s2232602.htm
Can you imagine that over 22 people were killed in high-speed boating accidents right in Sydney's harbor in just seven years? Amazing.

In those same seven years, 264,764 people were killed in car accidents in the US. (986 in New Hampshire) What's your point? That we should be careful when boating in Sydney Harbor?

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by chmeeee

In those same seven years, 264,764 people were killed in car accidents in the US. (986 in New Hampshire) What's your point? That we should be careful when boating in Sydney Harbor?

I wouldn't expect a intuitive response based on the logic.
And if you do get one, watch for the spin!

[sunset on the dock]

I've got to say, sounds like the same old refrain here...If alcohol was involved, speed has no bearing on the issue(but seriously, I don't want speed limits removed from our roads in NH just because a drunk might not obey them) and if the accident happened outside NH it couldn't possibly be relevant to NH. So the same goes for a SL on Winnipesaukee...so many people are happy to finally have a SL on the lake and don't want it removed just because "drunks don''t obey speed limits" (see my earlier post...drunks often obey speed limits to a fault and that's how they're picked up).

[onlywinni]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

so many people are happy to finally have a SL on the lake and don't want it removed

Please show us some statistics or a recent and relevant poll to support this..

I can show you one poll that is 75% against your statement above..



http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=8420


Maybe if you said a few of us who think the lake is ours and not everyones are happy...I would agree with that...

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

I've got to say, sounds like the same old refrain here...If alcohol was involved, speed has no bearing on the issue(but seriously, I don't want speed limits removed from our roads in NH just because a drunk might not obey them) and if the accident happened outside NH it couldn't possibly be relevant to NH. So the same goes for a SL on Winnipesaukee...so many people are happy to finally have a SL on the lake and don't want it removed just because "drunks don''t obey speed limits" (see my earlier post...drunks often obey speed limits to a fault and that's how they're picked up).

#1 - A drunk captain going 40MPH approacing from your port side.
#2 - Sober captain going 50MPH approacing from your port side.
You're the stand on vessel. Which situation would you rather encounter on the lake?


Here is some great weekend reading. USCG stats on BUI and rec boating. Couldn't find any USCG statistics on speed????

http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...on_of_bui.aspx

Again, I am being limited to 5 posts per day...this is number two;

This guy was thrown from his boat at 90MPH and SURVIVED!
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2...6-33485552_ITM
I guess speed does not always kill.

[DEJ]

Thanks for that link Ryan.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by elchase

Again, I am being limited to 5 posts per day...this is number two;

This guy was thrown from his boat at 90MPH and SURVIVED!
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2...6-33485552_ITM
I guess speed does not always kill.

Gee, I wonder why???? Unlike your sailboat, this forum needs a bailing out after you flooded it.

Better pick your post wisely!

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by elchase

Again, I am being limited to 5 posts per day...this is number two;

This guy was thrown from his boat at 90MPH and SURVIVED!
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2...6-33485552_ITM
I guess speed does not always kill.

It's because you are flooding. It is considered extremely rude to anyone who reads the boards. Just an FYI.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Thanks for that link Ryan.

Check out more of these FACTS.

USCG All accidents from 2008:

Speeds Accidents Percentage of total
Not Moving 917 20%
Under 10MPH 1,522 33%
10 to 20 MPH 1,064 23%
21 to 40 MPH 970 21%
Over 40 MPH 176 4%
Total 4,649

[hazelnut]

Wow Ryan! Facts not scare tactics and fear mongering. What ever will they say to that.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Wow Ryan! Facts not scare tactics and fear mongering. What ever will they say to that.

Probably nothing. Just 5 posts per day of irrelevant BUI incidents!!!!!

Lakebound in 30 minutes.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Probably nothing. Just 5 posts per day of irrelevant BUI incidents!!!!!

Lakebound in 30 minutes.

I kind of feel bad for him though. Resorting to posting accidents from Canada, Australia, what's next?

If we plotted these out on a chart I think we could all agree that we would be THRILLED with a speed safety record like that. I for one hope he DOES keep them coming it is actually helping to paint a clearer picture that our region has such a great safety record. Overall globally the record is pretty safe if he has to dig back 5+ years for most of these. Compare these numbers to auto fatalities and you would be staggered by how safe our waterways actually are. Thanks for the info el.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by onlywinni

I can show you one poll that is 75% against your statement above..



http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=8420

Seems to me that the Winni.com poll was thoroughly and credibly discredited a couple of weeks ago on this forum...some link to a site which described basics of polling(polling 101 )that said self polls have no validity whatsoever...some heated discussion between ELchase and a teacher who didn't seem to believe in science. In any case, I'll put my trust in the ARG poll which seemed to be taken using valid and accepted statistical methodology and it seems to pretty much agree with what people feel along our shore and around town.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

I'll put my trust in the ARG poll which seemed to be taken using valid and accepted statistical methodology and it seems to pretty much agree with what people feel along our shore and around town.

Wasn't the ARG poll conducted after a media campaign by WinFabs to "educate" the voter? Makes for the best poll money can buy, but seriously questions its validity.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Seems to me that the Winni.com poll was thoroughly and credibly discredited a couple of weeks ago on this forum...some link to a site which described basics of polling(polling 101 )that said self polls have no validity whatsoever...some heated discussion between ELchase and a teacher who didn't seem to believe in science. In any case, I'll put my trust in the ARG poll which seemed to be taken using valid and accepted statistical methodology and it seems to pretty much agree with what people feel along our shore and around town.

Not true Sunset. You have your head in the sand. I have said that I put as much faith in the polls on this site as I do a statewide poll of people who have no idea what a boat looks like in person. You and others have deluded yourself into thinking that the users, vacationers and residents of this lake overwhelmingly support this law. You are so wrong it is scary.

You question my intelligence and my belief in science? Science? So you put your faith in that statewide poll? It is laughable.

My position has been stated so clearly a child could understand it. You and others continue to dismiss my intelligence over this. I could really care less but I will tell you that you guys look pretty silly hanging on to that statewide poll as your evidence for a speed limit on Winnipesaukee. The beauty here is I really don't even need to say much you do all the talking for me by admitting your faith in that poll.

To reiterate my position in plain English. I put as much faith in the polls here as I do in the statewide poll. What does that mean to those who need it spelled out in plain English? They both have big time major flaws. They both prove nearly nothing. Other than the fact that our polling sample is far more educated in the field of boating.

Anyway keep on deluding yourselves that people in the area support your silly law. I gave you an example a while back and I urge you to try it. *Note- this only works if you do not reveal your position.* Randomly ask as many people in the area as you can about the law. Over the last 6 months I have not spoken to more than ONE or TWO supporters of this law in person. Curious huh? Where are they all??? Are they all hanging with the Obama supporters???? Hiding in shame???
My unofficial polling sample included but was not limited to:
Gas Attendants, Waiters, Waitresses, Business Owners, Random Tavern Patrons, Neighbors, Marina Sales Staff, Marina Owners, Arcade Patrons, Car Show Attendees, Store Clerks etc. etc.

Where are all the supporters. I swear to GOD I could not find them.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

My unofficial polling sample included but was not limited to:
Gas Attendants, Waiters, Waitresses, Business Owners, Random Tavern Patrons, Neighbors, Marina Sales Staff, Marina Owners, Arcade Patrons, Car Show Attendees, Store Clerks etc. etc.

Where are all the supporters. I swear to GOD I could not find them.

I certainly can't argue with you that your findings differ radically from mine. My neighbors, friends in town(many non lake front owners), and casual acquaintances pretty much are unamimous in their support for the SL. Sounds like you picked your venues carefully, and I admit I did not do my research in bars, arcades, car shows,or marinas cashing in on the GFBL's.

Gotta go now...I'm headed to Foxwood's where I'm taking an unofficial poll as to whether gambling should be made illegal.

[DEJ]

SOTD, you have no idea where Hnut conducted his personal poll, to state the following is childish and you are better than this: "I did not do my research in bars, arcades, car shows,or marinas cashing in on the GFBL's."


My personal poll showed without a doubt most think the speed limit is nonsense. I polled people who have experience boating on NH lakes, not just Winnipesaukee.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

I certainly can't argue with you that your findings differ radically from mine. My neighbors, friends in town(many non lake front owners), and casual acquaintances pretty much are unamimous in their support for the SL. Sounds like you picked your venues carefully, and I admit I did not do my research in bars, arcades, car shows,or marinas cashing in on the GFBL's.

Gotta go now...I'm headed to Foxwood's where I'm taking an unofficial poll as to whether gambling should be made illegal.

I'm sorry but where do you get off? You have no clue what type of establishments I frequent. Nice try at painting a picture of me slumming around the seedy side of town combing for answers from big scary GFBL owners hanging out in bars. What a joke. I conducted my informal polling at several reputable establishments in the area. I am first and foremost a family man with three very young children. In the interest of not rambling on and on I chose not to post the actual names of the establishments but now I will. Lets see how seedy these places are...

Hmmmmm
The Woodshed (oh the horror)
Funspot (Definitely a GFBL crowd there)
Castle in the Clouds Classic Car Show (ooohhh lots of performance boaters there)
Canoe Lounge (a.k.a bar and the crowd is a bit unruly, wear your leathers)
Shep Browns (I'm trying to think if they even SELL speed boats anymore?)
Channel Gas Docks (yeah the attendants make tons of $$$ off selling boats )
Northeast side of Cow Island (lots of outlaws on the island)
The list goes on and it is quite extensive...


Sounds like you need to get out of your bubble Sunset and actually speak to strangers not your 3 or 4 friends and neighbors who support the law. I am not lying when I tell you I spoke with several I mean SEVERAL area workers, business owners, residents this summer at those and many many many more places and I just couldn't find all these supporters YOU claim exist. I swear it's like trying to find and Obama supporter.

Nice try at deflection though sunset, I'll give you props for that.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Sunset

Seems to me that the Winni.com poll was thoroughly and credibly discredited a couple of weeks ago on this forum...

The poll is of members of this forum who are boaters on Lake Winnipesaukee. Limited in scope to only those that are impacted by the law? Yes. Discredited? Certainly not.
Originally posted by Sunset

In any case, I'll put my trust in the ARG poll which seemed to be taken using valid and accepted statistical methodology

If I recall correctly ARG has been discredited by professionals.

The actual poll that is telling is the one by the USCG that was linked to by Ryan showing only 4 percent of 2008 accidents in the entire country involve boats traveling at greater than 40 miles an hour. That means 96% of the accidents in the US involved boats traveling within the NH speed limits! Kind of falls into line with the NHMP snapshot of the lake when they found fewer than 1% of boats measured were exceeding the then proposed limits.

And just think, no one on our side had to search internationally to show that!

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

No analogy will be perfect, but it seems that some on the forum are unwilling to admit that swimmers, elderly people who may wish to just sit on the dock (my parents), people who live near the lake(and for that matter, all NH taxpayers because their taxes are affected by tourist dollars), ...really just about anyone in NH should have a say as well(and even kayakers and sailors).

While I can understand that your parents might object to the "potential" sound associated with a boat going fast, I am at a loss as to why the speed of the boat they might see would be of particular concern while they sit on the dock. If anything it would be visible for a shorter period of time.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I'm sorry but where do you get off? You have no clue what type of establishments I frequent. Nice try at painting a picture of me slumming around the seedy side of town combing for answers from big scary GFBL owners hanging out in bars. What a joke. I conducted my informal polling at several reputable establishments in the area. I am first and foremost a family man with three very young children. In the interest of not rambling on and on I chose not to post the actual names of the establishments but now I will. Lets see how seedy these places are...

Hmmmmm
The Woodshed (oh the horror)
Funspot (Definitely a GFBL crowd there)
Castle in the Clouds Classic Car Show (ooohhh lots of performance boaters there)
Canoe Lounge (a.k.a bar and the crowd is a bit unruly, wear your leathers)
Shep Browns (I'm trying to think if they even SELL speed boats anymore?)
Channel Gas Docks (yeah the attendants make tons of $$$ off selling boats )
Northeast side of Cow Island (lots of outlaws on the island)
The list goes on and it is quite extensive...


Sounds like you need to get out of your bubble Sunset and actually speak to strangers not your 3 or 4 friends and neighbors who support the law. I am not lying when I tell you I spoke with several I mean SEVERAL area workers, business owners, residents this summer at those and many many many more places and I just couldn't find all these supporters YOU claim exist. I swear it's like trying to find and Obama supporter.

Nice try at deflection though sunset, I'll give you props for that.

I've got to take my hat off to you Hazelnut for your boundless energy in conducting your unofficial poll all summer. You certainly are a man on a mission. What does the Mrs. think ("oh my god, here he goes again, god I can't wait until the new school year begins")?

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Originally Posted by elchase

Again, I am being limited to 5 posts per day...this is number two;

Thanks Don....oh wait, that is 1825 per year......

In all seriousness, I am glad to learn that boating is so darn safe from a statistical perspective.

[DEJ]

SOTD, my Mother once told me if you cannot say something nice about someone then say nothing. Perhaps you missed that lesson from your Momma. Think before you post please. thanks.

[Yosemite Sam]

I can see Hazelnut when he went to the Woodshed for an evening out with his family. Here is how it probably went:

Hazelnut: Attention everyone, I said attention everyone; Hi I’m conducting an informal poll to see who is for or against the new Lake Winipesaukee speed limit. If you say no then I will not ask you anymore questions. If you say yes, then please explain why you are for it.
Ok, you over there are you for it or against it?
Customer enjoying his meal: No I am not for it!
Hazelnut: Good, you are my kinda folks, you can continue eating.
Hazelnut: Ok, you over there who seem to be enjoying your meal, are you for it or against it?
Customer enjoying his meal: Yes I am for it.
Hazelnut: OMG please explain to me why you are for it. I just can’t believe that anyone in their right mind could be for it. Don’t you understand that there are thousands of people who are not for it and you are the first ones that I have run into that are for it. Stop enjoying you meal and give me 1000 reasons why you are for a speed limit. I said stop eating your food.
Customer enjoying his meal: Oh I’m sorry, I am not for the speed limit anymore, now can I enjoy my meal.
Hazelnut: Great, another one to add to my poll for being against that darn speed limit.
Hazelnut: Hey you over there in the corner………….!!!!

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

I can see Hazelnut when he went to the Woodshed for an evening out with his family. Here is how it probably went:

Hazelnut: Attention everyone, I said attention everyone; Hi I’m conducting an informal poll to see who is for or against the new Lake Winipesaukee speed limit. If you say no then I will not ask you anymore questions. If you say yes, then please explain why you are for it.
Ok, you over there are you for it or against it?
Customer enjoying his meal: No I am not for it!
Hazelnut: Good, you are my kinda folks, you can continue eating.
Hazelnut: Ok, you over there who seem to be enjoying your meal, are you for it or against it?
Customer enjoying his meal: Yes I am for it.
Hazelnut: OMG please explain to me why you are for it. I just can’t believe that anyone in their right mind could be for it. Don’t you understand that there are thousands of people who are not for it and you are the first ones that I have run into that are for it. Stop enjoying you meal and give me 1000 reasons why you are for a speed limit. I said stop eating your food.
Customer enjoying his meal: Oh I’m sorry, I am not for the speed limit anymore, now can I enjoy my meal.
Hazelnut: Great, another one to add to my poll for being against that darn speed limit.
Hazelnut: Hey you over there in the corner………….!!!!

Exactly! My wife was pretty embarrassed to say the least! The management was none too happy either. I'm not welcome back there anytime soon. DO you think the bullhorn was overkill?

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by DEJ

SOTD, my Mother once told me if you cannot say something nice about someone then say nothing. Perhaps you missed that lesson from your Momma. Think before you post please. thanks.

It's ok DEJ when the facts are proven out all that's left is to insult. I actually like the post from sunset, it pretty much confirms what I have been saying. I'm sure he gets frustrated when everyone he talks to laughs at the SL law.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Exactly! My wife was pretty embarrassed to say the least! The management was none too happy either. I'm not welcome back there anytime soon. DO you think the bullhorn was overkill?

You're a good sport!

[sunset on the dock]

This is Doc' Sunset reporting from Foxwoods Casino in beautiful rural Connecticuit for WFRM news. We're here today to ask people to weigh in on a bill that would make gambling illegal, but so far I've yet been unable to find a single person who would favor such a move. I've interviewed patrons, bartenders, waitresses, and just about anyone I can find. It seems clear to me that gambling in New England enjoys unequivocal and unanimous support.
In another unrelated story, we're receiving early reports of a fatal high speed boating accident...details at 11.



Seriously though, did Hazelnut interview anyone at any of the summer camps? With such a long list of businesses and organizations who supported the SL and Winnfabs ,I'm sure you might understand my skepticism of the results of the informal Hazelnut poll at such odds with the ARG poll and my own observations.

[DEJ]

Hey Hnut, don't yo know by now that facts mean nothing to those who support the SL?

What happened to that documentary that you guys were making this summer? Remember how you were going out to film fifteen minutes of usual boating on Winnipesaukee so you could show us how crazy it still was? Never heard about that again. I have 4 hours of continuous footage from my buddy's dock from Labor Day Sunday Aug 23 11AM to 3PM and the civility is actually quite boring. I had trouble sitting through it myself. A DVD has been given to several of our legislators. Only one of the reps admits to have watched it so far and she claims she saw one boat that "might have been going 45ish", but I don't agree. I think he just looked to be going fast in comparison to all the slower traffic around.

This guy must have been flying to catapult his passenger to his death in this speedboat crash. The boat owner was really thinking ahead when he named the boat "Never a Dull Moment". But then, this happened almost 600 miles away, so it must be irrelevant;
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia...-sentence.html

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by elchase

What happened to that documentary that you guys were making this summer? Remember how you were going out to film fifteen minutes of usual boating on Winnipesaukee so you could show us how crazy it still was? Never heard about that again. I have 4 hours of continuous footage from my buddy's dock from Labor Day Sunday Aug 23 11AM to 3PM and the civility is actually quite boring. I had trouble sitting through it myself. A DVD has been given to several of our legislators. Only one of the reps admits to have watched it so far and she claims she saw one boat that "might have been going 45ish", but I don't agree. I think he just looked to be going fast in comparison to all the slower traffic around.

So does this prove that the speed limit is working or that a speed limit is not needed???

[Resident 2B]

For the record, Sunday, August 23rd was two weekends before Labor Day Weekend. More misrepresentation!

R2B

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

T


Seriously though, did Hazelnut interview anyone at any of the summer camps? With such a long list of businesses and organizations who supported the SL and Winnfabs ,I'm sure you might understand my skepticism of the results of the informal Hazelnut poll at such odds with the ARG poll and my own observations.

I can see your point. I never looked at any list of supporting business or organizations before I shopped, ate, visited at locations.

Seriously though, my "poll" was no "poll." All I did this summer was engage people in conversation about the SL. I call it an informal poll because it was really not a poll at all. The conversations with people usually began with me playing like I knew nothing of a speed limit.

Me: "Is there a speed limit or not on this lake?"
Waiter: "yup" (Roll eye) "45/25"
Me: "45/25?"
Waiter: "45 day, 25 at night?"
Me: "wow, that's pretty interesting"
Waiter: "Pretty dumb if you ask me."
Me: "Thanks for the info."

That is a paraphrased typical conversation I had several times this summer. I urge you to do the same thing while shopping, dining, etc in the area. Your results will be the same.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I can see your point. I never looked at any list of supporting business or organizations before I shopped, ate, visited at locations.

Seriously though, my "poll" was no "poll." All I did this summer was engage people in conversation about the SL. I call it an informal poll because it was really not a poll at all. The conversations with people usually began with me playing like I knew nothing of a speed limit.

Me: "Is there a speed limit or not on this lake?"
Waiter: "yup" (Roll eye) "45/25"
Me: "45/25?"
Waiter: "45 day, 25 at night?"
Me: "wow, that's pretty interesting"
Waiter: "Pretty dumb if you ask me."
Me: "Thanks for the info."

That is a paraphrased typical conversation I had several times this summer. I urge you to do the same thing while shopping, dining, etc in the area. Your results will be the same.

This is how the conversation really went:

Me: "Is there a speed limit or not on this lake?"
Waiter: "yup" (Roll eye) "45/25"
Me: "45/25?"
Waiter: "45 day, 25 at night?"
Me: "wow, that's pretty interesting"
Waiter: "Pretty dumb if you ask me."
Me: “Why do you think it’s pretty dumb?”
Waiter: Gee I don’t know, that’s what all the big spenders with those hugh boats say, and my boss told me to say it’s “pretty dumb” if anyone asked me.
Me: Very good that’s what I’ve been getting from most of the people I have polled.
Waiter: Now do I get that big tip that my boss said I would get?
Me: Yes you do!!!

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

This is how the conversation really went:

Me: "Is there a speed limit or not on this lake?"
Waiter: "yup" (Roll eye) "45/25"
Me: "45/25?"
Waiter: "45 day, 25 at night?"
Me: "wow, that's pretty interesting"
Waiter: "Pretty dumb if you ask me."
Me: “Why do you think it’s pretty dumb?”
Waiter: Gee I don’t know, that’s what all the big spenders with those hugh boats say, and my boss told me to say it’s “pretty dumb” if anyone asked me.
Me: Very good that’s what I’ve been getting from most of the people I have polled.
Waiter: Now do I get that big tip that my boss said I would get?
Me: Yes you do!!!

There is a HUGH yard sale in Gilford today. I think they are having a sale on governors

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

This is how the conversation really went:

Me: "Is there a speed limit or not on this lake?"
Waiter: "yup" (Roll eye) "45/25"
Me: "45/25?"
Waiter: "45 day, 25 at night?"
Me: "wow, that's pretty interesting"
Waiter: "Pretty dumb if you ask me."
Me: “Why do you think it’s pretty dumb?”
Waiter: Gee I don’t know, that’s what all the big spenders with those hugh boats say, and my boss told me to say it’s “pretty dumb” if anyone asked me.
Me: Very good that’s what I’ve been getting from most of the people I have polled.
Waiter: Now do I get that big tip that my boss said I would get?
Me: Yes you do!!!

I never thought of that. I did leave him a 38% tip because he didn't like the SL. The gas dock attendants made HUGE $$$$ off of me this year by telling me what I wanted to hear. Pity the poor soul that actually said they supported the SL. They would have gotten squat from me.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I never thought of that. I did leave him a 38% tip because he didn't like the SL. The gas dock attendants made HUGE $$$$ off of me this year by telling me what I wanted to hear. Pity the poor soul that actually said they supported the SL. They would have gotten squat from me.

That is why the SL is bad for the economy!

This poor guy died from his injuries after he was run over by a "speeding" boat. Maybe if the driver had been going slower, the added reaction time he would have had might have been enough to avoid the swimmer...but we'll never know;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33273246...s-honolulu_hi/

[VtSteve]

Make some common sense about this


"Still, Levora said boaters must constantly scan the water for people, birds and nets, but he's also concerned about skilled divers who don't use markers in an attempt to keep their dive spots secret.

“That puts them in danger and then you're on top of them,” he said. “When you're going 20 miles an hour, you can't just shut that thing down. It's not like a car.”

In the case of Lum's death, police said there may be criminal charges against the boater. Lum's dive partner said the boat was speeding, but police said there is no evidence that the 32-year-old boat owner was intoxiated.
"

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Lum's dive partner said the boat was speeding, but police said there is no evidence that the 32-year-old boat owner was intoxiated . "

Exactly...if he had been intoxiated (sic) then we'd have no reason to worry because we all know that speeding boats helmed by drunks are not dangerous.

Sorry, but this next guy would not admit his exact speed, so all we know is that he too was "speeding" when he crashed into another boat KILLING ONE and injuring nine. Since he was within 150' of the victim boat the instant before he hit it, the cult will say "but if he was going over headway speed he was "speeding", so maybe he was only going 6 MPH. Besides, he would have been violating our safe passage law too, so this does not count". They will also say "and there is no proof that that guy would not have died if the boat was only going 2 MPH" ;
http://www.injurytriallawyer.com/blog/13.cfm

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by elchase

Exactly...if he had been intoxiated (sic) then we'd have no reason to worry because we all know that speeding boats helmed by drunks are not dangerous.

Sorry, but this next guy would not admit his exact speed, so all we know is that he too was "speeding" when he crashed into another boat KILLING ONE and injuring nine. Since he was within 150' of the victim boat the instant before he hit it, the cult will say "but if he was going over headway speed he was "speeding", so maybe he was only going 6 MPH. Besides, he would have been violating our safe passage law too, so this does not count". They will also say "and there is no proof that that guy would not have died if the boat was only going 2 MPH" ;
http://www.injurytriallawyer.com/blog/13.cfm

If you're going to be the spelling police you'd better check yourself el. Your grammar isn't up to par to be criticizing those who accidentally misspell a word here and there. You just come off smarmy and your message gets obscured with your quest to correct the members of this board.


FYI - Punctuation is placed inside of the parenthesis in the case of the period at the end of this sentence:
so this does not count".

You're posts are far from error free so don't go correcting others unless you're confident you are perfect.

Sorry to derail the thread folks but it really gets under my skin when people here feel the need to start criticizing others grammar and spelling. This is a message board not an English paper.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

You're posts are far from error free so don't go correcting others unless you're confident you are perfect.

You're posts are far from error free so don't go correcting others unless you're confident you are perfect.

Maybe "You're" should be Your?

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

You're posts are far from error free so don't go correcting others unless you're confident you are perfect.

Maybe "You're" should be Your?

PAY ATTENTION!!!!! I never said I was perfect! I said I can't stand it when people point out how others misspell and misuse grammar when they are far from perfect themselves. It is smarmy and detracts from the post. Unless you're perfect Sam don't go correcting me!
Half the time I am using my phone to post anyway. I'm lucky if it comes out at all never mind grammatically correct.

I repeat this isn't an English paper jeez!
Need I go back and proof all of your posts Sam?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

You're posts are far from error free so don't go correcting others unless you're confident you are perfect.

Maybe "You're" should be Your?

Perhaps you should learn the proper time and place to use a possesive apostrophe?? I try not to ping on spelling and grammar in forum discussions but you started this one. Here is a quick rundown- the apostrophe (that funny thing you keep putting before every s) is meant to show possession, not plurality. And I know, you can probably go back and find a mistake in one of my posts but guess what? If I reread all my posts I would find the misrtakes (sic) in them- can you say the same about yours?

[hazelnut]

I regreted the post right after I pushed the post button. However I have seen way too many grammar and spelling police on here that are so far from perfect. I myself am guilty of butchering the English language on this board. Sorry I don't proof everything I post on this site. Big deal this is a message board!
I can assure you my 30 page research paper last semester was error free. Yup I'm still taking classes all these years later. Ha ha ha.

Sam no offense to you but I was purely using el's mistake to point out why he should leave the grammar and spelling corrections out of the discussion. Yes I have egg on my face as I commited an error in my example. Oh well! The point is not one person on this board is perfect so give the corrections a rest!

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Need I go back and proof all of your posts Sam?

Go ahead if you have the time.....I'm sure you will find many many grammar and spelling error's.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Perhaps you should learn the proper time and place to use a possesive apostrophe?? I try not to ping on spelling and grammar in forum discussions but you started this one. Here is a quick rundown- the apostrophe (that funny thing you keep putting before every s) is meant to show possession, not plurality. And I know, you can probably go back and find a mistake in one of my posts but guess what? If I reread all my posts I would find the misrtakes (sic) in them- can you say the same about yours?

Whatever!!

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

Whatever!!

I love a well thought out post complete with witty repartee!! Have a wonderful night!

[Rattlesnake Guy]

We all screw up and abuse the English language. Well except for that one member...

Any chance we can get back to rolling around in the mud about the Speed Limit. (potential improper use of word capitalization to draw focus )

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

"...I try not to ping on spelling and grammar in forum discussions..."

Originally Posted by VitaBene

"...There is a HUGH yard sale in Gilford today..."

Ummm. This is Hugh.

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

"...Any chance we can get back to rolling around in the mud about the Speed Limit..."

I think you meant...getting back to the "train wreck" that is the Speed Limit.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

"...So please go ahead on your fear campaign while the rest of us actually figure out how to make our lake safer..."

Opponents are "figuring out" Winnipesaukee safety?

Take a look at what has appeared on the Internet, and how "funny" a 100-MPH speed is to ONE OF YOUR OWN:

"...I was anchored just east of Welch Isl. and I had a 40' cat run off my bow about 50' out at a solid 100! I thought my windshield was toast just from the noise...I think I was a bit too close to the course, but it was soooooo worth it.

A few of my buddies were getting ready to jump overboard out of fear...
too funny...!

[sunset on the dock]

Boy, I went to sleep early last night and missed all the excitement.

[onlywinni]

on second thought...never mind..I am done with this speed limit debate until next year..

If anyone wants to discuss or argue with me about anything ..please find me in the Snowmobile Section for the Winter months.....

[NoRegrets]

Don't give up yet! We still plan to boat for a few more weeks.

I thought this was an SL forum not a grammar test. It seems like the goading tactics are working. I am trying to understand the logic or benefit of flooding these posts with random boating related fatality stories.

We could list the gory details about plane crashes – Result – Outlaw airplanes, no need to spend on airports and fear of future catastrophes.
We could list the horrible gory details of motorcycle fatalities – Result – Outlaw motorcycles, no more motorcycles to create these horrible events.
We could list the horrible stories of animal attacks – Result – No one allowed to go into the wild.
We could list the horrible Dog Attack stories – Result – No more pets.
We could list the horrible divorce stories - Result – No more marriage.
We could list all the crimes created by guns – Result – Outlaw guns so only outlaws would have guns!
We could list the accidents of mountain climbers – Result – Law against mountaineering.
We could list the horrible stories on politicians that legislate to constrict freedom – Result – No more politicians! – Okay this one does have value!
I could go on but need to work to pay my taxes so the government can create programs to help save someone else’s universe.

At the end of the process of eliminating danger and fear we can all be satisfied by reading about our forefathers and wonder what they were thinking when they actually challenged themselves to take risks and conquer fear. I am not of the opinion that anyone that does not support the SL desires to bring fear to anyone. Fear is created by not knowing a potential outcome. Boneheads, uneducated, and Darwin Award candidates create unpredictable encounters.

I believe we need to respect the rights of individuals that seek to own or use larger or faster vessels on one of the best publicly owned NH lakes. It has always been used for many different recreational purposes and one of the best attractions is the dirversity.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

Go ahead if you have the time.....I'm sure you will find many many grammar and spelling error's.

I don't. You at least admit you have commited errors in spelling and grammar.

It just gets under my skin when someone on here has to try and put on an air of superiority, especially when that person has many flaws themselves. Face it none of us are perfect, to go on correcting each other is a bit over the top. Let's just stick to discussions and leave the grammar and spelling corrections to the English classroom.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I don't. You at least admit you have commited errors in spelling and grammar.

It just gets under my skin when someone on here has to try and put on an air of superiority, especially when that person has many flaws themselves. Face it none of us are perfect, to go on correcting each other is a bit over the top. Let's just stick to discussions and leave the grammar and spelling corrections to the English classroom.

Wait a second..........I'm perfect........ at least that is what my dear mother used to tell me.. LOL

I also could be the worst offender of grammatical errors out there. Spell check and the ways of the blackberry have done a number on proper english..

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Opponents are "figuring out" Winnipesaukee safety?

Take a look at what has appeared on the Internet, and how "funny" a 100-MPH speed is to ONE OF YOUR OWN:

One of who's own? My own? Where do you draw the connection?

APS your only purpose in life is to rid one sector of the boating population you consider undesireable. Don't even pretend you give a rats behind about safety.

Originally Posted by hazelnut

If you're going to be the spelling police you'd better check yourself el. Your grammar isn't up to par to be criticizing those who accidentally misspell a word here and there. You just come off smarmy and your message gets obscured with your quest to correct the members of this board.
FYI - Punctuation is placed inside of the parenthesis in the case of the period at the end of this sentence:
so this does not count".
You're posts are far from error free so don't go correcting others unless you're confident you are perfect.
Sorry to derail the thread folks but it really gets under my skin when people here feel the need to start criticizing others grammar and spelling. This is a message board not an English paper.

What a smarmy buffoon. Lady, if this is indicative of what our kids are facing in school, I take back everything nice I have ever said about teachers.
First off, I do not and did not criticize anyone’s grammar or misspelling. I make enough mistakes of my own that I’d not risk looking the smarmy idiot that you did…except maybe when Girlhopper writes those Swahili messages with no nouns and seven adverbs. Had you taken the time to look, you’d see that the misspelling was in the originally quoted article, and it is customary to “sic” such errors so others know that you are not the one making the mistake. Your smarmy hate is clouding your senses. Take a chill pill and think before you write. Assuming that is within your ability.
Secondly, you are dead wrong about my punctuation. If you were an English teacher, shame on you. My period is obviously the end of the sentence starting with “Since he was…” and belongs OUTSIDE the quote. Had the phrase inside the quote been a complete sentence, then it might have deserved an ADDITIONAL period inside the quotes, but you need to go back to school lady. If you are going to criticize, make sure you know what you are talking about first.*
Thirdly, Your “You’re” mistake is worthy of keeping a third grader back. What grade did you teach? What grade did you finish yourself?

Originally Posted by hazelnut

PAY ATTENTION!!!!! ... I can't stand it when people point out how others misspell and misuse grammar when they are far from perfect themselves. It is smarmy and detracts from the post. Unless you're perfect Sam don't go correcting me! ...I repeat this isn't an English paper jeez! Need I go back and proof all of your posts Sam?

You have the nerve to "smarmily" chastise Sam about being smarmy and tell him to “PAY ATTENTION!!!” for pointing out your error when he was so unsmarmily polite in the way he pointed out the irony of your HUGE booboo in your high and mighty post that was itself erroneous in the first place? Notice his lack of those smarmy smilies that frequent your smarmy posts?

Luckily, I was blocked last night. My response would not have been so tame as Sam's, and my attitude has mellowed since I read it last night. You made a complete idiot out of yourself and set your profession back a full century. You and the rest of your Simian cult need to get down from your smarmy pedestals and look in the mirror.

Lady, If I were you I’d change my screen name and start over. “Egg on your face” is the least of your problems.

And where's your list of Supporters that have abandoned me? Was that just another of "you're" lies? And where's that promised apology for saying I lied about Girlhopper's PM?

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Perhaps you should learn the proper time and place to use a possesive apostrophe?? I try not to ping on spelling and grammar in forum discussions but you started this one. Here is a quick rundown- the apostrophe (that funny thing you keep putting before every s) is meant to show possession, not plurality. And I know, you can probably go back and find a mistake in one of my posts but guess what? If I reread all my posts I would find the misrtakes (sic) in them- can you say the same about yours?

Holy C---p! The pot calls the kettle black (the white kettle at that). I don't know where to begin with this one. Smarmy young boy, you are the epitome of all that is wrong with our public school system. That is, assuming you even "grajiated" 3rd grade.

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

We all screw up and abuse the English language.

Amen

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Well except for that one member...)

No...two members (see above)

I think I saw this cigarette boat on Winnipesaukee a couple of years ago, before the speed limit. Is he one of your cult? Did he vote on your "poll"?;
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/b...7RlLGo2mH3wSmO

And when is someone going to post that documentary you guys made?
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...&postcount=153
I'm gathering that it did not show what you had hoped. As I found out, four hours of boaters behaving civilly is pretty boring to watch.

And one more thing;

Originally Posted by chipj29

Prior to 2009, when was the last "high speed crash" or "speed-related fatality"? Please be specific.

I had promised myself I was not going to get dragged into doing the homework for a group of cavemen who are incapable of typing "google.com" in their own address bars. There have been numerous high speed boating accidents on Lake Winnipesaukee in recent years...(before last summer when there were none - coincidence?). Do you own research as I have done and reported to the legislature already. Here is a lesson. Go to Google and type in "Wolfeboro Donzi accident". You'll hit this http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/293022-post4.html This guy was not drinking, and violated no laws. Luckily, he only killed himself this time...a real rarity when the driver is the one killed. Had some poor slob been out there in a sailboat and had this guys carcass come crashing into them, they might have unfortunately been killed too. But then you' say "But he violated the 150-ft rule too...so it doesn't count.". (note the two periods Hazel?) I could post links to many other similar Winnipesaukee events from before we had an SL, but it is not my job to be your researcher. Besides, you'd think of imaginative reasons why those ones "don't count".(note the one period Hazel?) For instance, if I linked you to the two separate times boats who witnesses said were speeding ran aground on Eagle Island at night, you'd say; "But one of those pilots did not have permission to use his dad's boat anyway and the other might have been looking at an obsolete chart.". (not the two periods Hazel?) Take the blinders off. You guys are DEAD WRONG but too blinded by yoru selfishness to ever see it. A crowded lake required by statute to be available for all modes of appropriate recreation needs a reasonable limit on the speeds of the multi-ton boats that have recently invaded it and which are often piloted by immature cowboys...period.


*Of course, if we look hard enough we can probably find a source to support any grammatical argument. Here's my source for putting periods outside quotation marks; issue http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2932 . Where's your source for using "You're" as a second person possessive?

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by elchase

What a smarmy buffoon. Lady, if this is indicative of what our kids are facing in school, I take back everything nice I have ever said about teachers.
First off, I do not and did not criticize anyone’s grammar or misspelling. I make enough mistakes of my own that I’d not risk looking the smarmy idiot that you did…except maybe when Girlhopper writes those Swahili messages with no nouns and seven adverbs. Had you taken the time to look, you’d see that the misspelling was in the originally quoted article, and it is customary to “sic” such errors so others know that you are not the one making the mistake. Your smarmy hate is clouding your senses. Take a chill pill and think before you write. Assuming that is within your ability.
Secondly, you are dead wrong about my punctuation. If you were an English teacher, shame on you. My period is obviously the end of the sentence starting with “Since he was…” and belongs OUTSIDE the quote. Had the phrase inside the quote been a complete sentence, then it might have deserved an ADDITIONAL period inside the quotes, but you need to go back to school lady. If you are going to criticize, make sure you know what you are talking about first.
Thirdly, Your “You’re” mistake is worthy of keeping a third grader back. What grade did you teach? What grade did you finish yourself?


You have the nerve to "smarmily" chastise Sam about being smarmy and tell him to “PAY ATTENTION!!!” for pointing out your error when he was so unsmarmily polite in the way he pointed out the irony of your HUGE booboo in your high and mighty post that was itself erroneous in the first place? Notice his lack of those smarmy smilies that frequent your smarmy posts?

Luckily, I was blocked last night. My response would not have been so tame as Sam's, and my attitude has mellowed since I read it last night. You made a complete idiot out of yourself and set your profession back a full century. You and the rest of your Simian cult need to get down from your smarmy pedestals and look in the mirror.

Lady, If I were you I’d change my screen name and start over. “Egg on your face” is the least of your problems.

And where's your list of Supporters that have abandoned me? Was that just another of "you're" lies? And where's that promised apology for saying I lied about Girlhopper's PM?


Holy C---p! The pot calls the kettle black (the white kettle at that). I don't know where to begin with this one. Smarmy young boy, you are the epitome of all that is wrong with our public school system. That is, assuming you even "grajiated" 3rd grade.

Amen
No...two members (see above)

I think I saw this cigarette boat on Winnipesaukee a couple of years ago, before the speed limit. Is he one of your cult? Did he vote on your "poll"?;
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/b...7RlLGo2mH3wSmO

And when is someone going to post that documentary you guys made?
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...&postcount=153
I'm gathering that it did not show what you had hoped. As I found out, four hours of boaters behaving civilly is pretty boring to watch.

And one more thing;
I had promised myself I was not going to get dragged into doing the homework for a group of cavemen who are incapable of typing "google.com" in their own address bars. There have been numerous high speed boating accidents on Lake Winnipesaukee in recent years...(before last summer when there were none - coincidence?). Do you own research as I have done and reported to the legislature already. Here is a lesson. Go to Google and type in "Wolfeboro Donzi accident". You'll hit this http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/293022-post4.html This guy was not drinking, and violated no laws. Luckily, he only killed himself this time...a real rarity when the driver is the one killed. Had some poor slob been out there in a sailboat and had this guys carcass come crashing into them, they might have unfortunately been killed too. But then you' say "But he violated the 150-ft rule too...so it doesn't count.". (note the two periods Hazel?) I could post links to many other similar Winnipesaukee events from before we had an SL, but it is not my job to be your researcher. Besides, you'd think of imaginative reasons why those ones "don't count".(note the one period Hazel?) For instance, if I linked you to the two separate times boats who witnesses said were speeding ran aground on Eagle Island at night, you'd say; "But one of those pilots did not have permission to use his dad's boat anyway and the other might have been looking at an obsolete chart.". (not the two periods Hazel?) Take the blinders off. You guys are DEAD WRONG but too blinded by yoru selfishness to ever see it. A crowded lake required by statute to be available for all modes of appropriate recreation needs a reasonable limit on the speeds of the multi-ton boats that have recently invaded it and which are often piloted by immature cowboys...period.

WOW!

Well I guess I'm joining the ranks of those who put el on the ignore list.

Seriously though Don? Has this crossed a new line? Sexist comments? In the almost 10 years I have been posting and reading this forum this is about the most offensive post I have ever read.

Even though it is directed at me personally I am not offended at all. The source isn't worth the time of day. But generally speaking Don, this is wildly offensive and hateful.

All I can say is WOW!

FYI elchase:
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

You sir are an idiot.

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/gramm.../quotation.htm
In the United States, periods and commas go inside quotation marks regardless of logic.

[VitaBene]

I graduated from 3rd grade and got a little bit higher than that. If you want to hold a little spelling bee sometime, let me know. I will even let one of your little band of merry men moderate it.

I don't really want to get into careers either, because I frequently state that "I work to live, I do not live to work", but I have done pretty well there with my limited edumication (sic). See I even know where sic belongs. You will have to speak to the Jesuits about my poor grammar and writing skills.

Please do not denigrate the public schools. I live in Moultonborough and I feel they do an excellent job educating my children.

Your new buddy Sam (did you recall his original avatar with two guns blazing, wasn't that offensive to you?) piled on with you last night with the grammar (remember when you pinged on VT Steve over intoxiated then he started in on the You're as opposed to Your?).

With your personal attacks, your banning from this forum is likey near. It would be too easy to type what I think about you and stoop to your level. Frankly I think everyone knows what you are.

[DEJ]

I also hope Don stops the obvious personal attacks from this poster.