One way or the other

[gtagrip]

[QUOTE=elchase;109110]Hazelnut, you just recently called me a liar.

Oh, boo hoo! Did you go run and tell your mommy? You sound like my 5 year old. Actually, my 5 year old can take it!

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Did you go run and tell your mommy?

My mother just died last month after a long and painful battle with cancer. I'm guessing after all the investigating of me that you guys did that you knew of this. You are a real class act.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by elchase

My mother just died last month after a long and painful battle with cancer. I'm guessing after all the investigating of me that you guys did that you knew of this. You are a real class act.

If I had seen this in the local papers, I would have send condolence.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by elchase

My mother just died last month after a long and painful battle with cancer. I'm guessing after all the investigating of me that you guys did that you knew of this. You are a real class act.

Sorry to hear about your mother. I re-tract the "mommy comment. But actually, I have better things to do than investigate you or who you are. I could actually careless.

[NoBozo]

All bets are OFF if it RAINS. NB

[Ryan]

I wonder how the ARG poll would have turned out if the results from the MP speed survey had been referenced in the survey question?

It's very surprising that none of those findings were included...

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

All bets are OFF if it RAINS. NB

I'm watching that closely..... Not only that but if it rains there goes my Sat. as well... Will have to pull the engine as well as detail the entire boat....... Again!... lol.. She will be rocking next year...

Next year we will definately meet up and settle the bet...

Better yet lets meet in the middle of the broads and enjoy some fun runs. See if we can get a group of us together...

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

All bets are OFF if it RAINS. NB

you never mention snow!!!

407 votes so far..... seems that if you take away everyone who has commented in this thread there is still a very wide margin of people from winni.com voting.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

you never mention snow!!!

407 votes so far..... seems that if you take away everyone who has commented in this thread there is still a very wide margin of people from winni.com voting.

But this is a GFBL site remember.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

But this is a GFBL site remember.

Sorry forgot.. Also remember almost all the votes are those from people on other sites.

[ApS]

"...The polls are up to the honesty and integrety of everyone on the forum...Those that choose to cheat the system are the handicaped low-life losers..."

Um...umm...ummm...

No comment.

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

"...407 votes so far..... seems that if you take away everyone who has commented in this thread there is still a very wide margin of people from winni.com voting..."

Originally Posted by hazelnut

"...But this is a GFBL site remember..."

To quote John F. Kerry, (sorta):

"Would that it were so...would that it were so..."

[BroadHopper]

According to American Research Group only 64% of 600 people interviewed by phone is in favor of the speed limit. ARG claims a margin of error of only 9%???? Not all of the 600 folks are registered voters.

According to the 2000 Census found on nh.gov website there are 1,235,786 folks in NH. rule out those that are under 18 (309,401) you have 926,385 potential voters. According to Wikipedia as of 2002 25.6% of the registered voters are Democrats, 36.7% are Republicans and the rest (37.7%) are 'independents'.

So my point is how can less than 600 folks represent the consensus of 926,385 potential voters? ARG did not say where these folks are located. My best guess is that ARG is located in Manchester and I can bet you 'rita that those polled are in the greater Manchester area.

Take a look at this blog regarding the credibility of ARG.
http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2007...rch-group.html

So where did the 83% of the NH voters come from?????

[Kracken]

The ARG poll question was:

Do you favor or oppose a law that would impose speed limits for boats on large lakes in New Hampshire?

Favor: 64 Oppose 22 Undecided 14.

An interesting point:
29% of republicans were against a speed limit while 8% of Democrats opposed it.

The poll question did not try to educate the sample in any way. Nor did it give specifics of what a speed limit should be. How valid is an opinion if the person being asked has little to no knowledge of the subject.

When that happens you get answers like this:

“I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some, people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our, uh, education like such as, uh, South Africa and uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and, I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, or, uh, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future, for our ….” Caitlin Upton

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

According to American Research Group only 64% of 600 people interviewed by phone is in favor of the speed limit. ARG claims a margin of error of only 9%???? Not all of the 600 folks are registered voters.

According to the 2000 Census found on nh.gov website there are 1,235,786 folks in NH. rule out those that are under 18 (309,401) you have 926,385 potential voters. According to Wikipedia as of 2002 25.6% of the registered voters are Democrats, 36.7% are Republicans and the rest (37.7%) are 'independents'.

So my point is how can less than 600 folks represent the consensus of 926,385 potential voters? ARG did not say where these folks are located. My best guess is that ARG is located in Manchester and I can bet you 'rita that those polled are in the greater Manchester area.

Take a look at this blog regarding the credibility of ARG.
http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2007...rch-group.html

So where did the 83% of the NH voters come from?????

Interesting read- I have a hard time giving any business or professional organization any credibility when I see AOL email adresses such as those that ARG lists.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

According to American Research Group only 64% of 600 people interviewed by phone is in favor of the speed limit. ARG claims a margin of error of only 9%???? Not all of the 600 folks are registered voters.

According to the 2000 Census found on nh.gov website there are 1,235,786 folks in NH. rule out those that are under 18 (309,401) you have 926,385 potential voters. According to Wikipedia as of 2002 25.6% of the registered voters are Democrats, 36.7% are Republicans and the rest (37.7%) are 'independents'.

So my point is how can less than 600 folks represent the consensus of 926,385 potential voters? ARG did not say where these folks are located. My best guess is that ARG is located in Manchester and I can bet you 'rita that those polled are in the greater Manchester area.

Take a look at this blog regarding the credibility of ARG.
http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2007...rch-group.html

So where did the 83% of the NH voters come from?????

Thanks for the link. It further solidifies my position. I can't wait to hear how this one gets spun though.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Thanks for the link. It further solidifies my position. I can't wait to hear how this one gets spun though.

Oh, Hazelnut, don't you know that this probably does not contain all the
facts.

[Kracken]

There must be another ARG poll; this one does not seem to be the one some of the proponents are citing.

I am disappointed OCD did not start a driving to VA poll, will he make it…or won’t he.

Originally Posted by Ryan

I wonder how the ARG poll would have turned out if the results from the MP speed survey had been referenced in the survey question? It's very surprising that none of those findings were included

I wonder if everyone in the state would have favored the speed limit (except the 8 of you or course) had it been taken right after the crash of the boat driven by the NHRBA president. It's very surprising that you don't mention that.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

So where did the 83% of the NH voters come from?????

You guys are right. I made a mistake and apologize. Sometimes my memory is not perfect. The 83% was Democrats. The percentage of total voters was "only" 78%. Thanks for sending me back to do the research that you guys seem so unable to do.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

According to American Research Group only 64% of 600 people interviewed by phone is in favor of the speed limit. ARG claims a margin of error of only 9%????

Now you surely know that you are quoting the first of three polls and the one most favorable to you (even though still hugely unfavorable to you), don't you? You guys complained about the lack of specificity in this question so it was repeated with a more specific 45/25 question and the favorability rose significantly. Then you complained that the sample size was too small (although it was more than statistically sufficient already), so the sample size was increased and the favorability again increased significantly. You guys know all this, but keep quoting the first poll. WHY?
Their June '05 poll asked 600 randomly selected people across NH "Do you favor or oppose a state law placing a 45 miles per hour daytime and 25 miles per hour nighttime speed limit on boats operating on New Hampshire lakes?", to which the response was 63% in favor and 9% opposed. 9 voters favored a speed limit to every one that opposed.
Their February '07 poll asked 2000 randomly selected people across NH "Do you favor or oppose a law that places speed limits on boats on lakes in New Hampshire?". 78% of all voters (R and D) answered in support and only 18% opposed.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

So my point is how can less than 600 folks represent the consensus of 926,385 potential voters?

You claim to have been a professional statistician and you have to ask this question? Come on. Assuming as I must that you just made that up, if you have to ask this question, did you at least look at the link we discussed yesterday that explains all about the statistical accuracy of polls based on sample size, or do you only read stuff that you know is going to tell you what you want to hear? Did you even try to look into this yourself before you asked this question? Have you ever been to a casino? They must love to see "professional statisticians" like you coming.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Take a look at this blog regarding the credibility of ARG.

A blog? Your resorting to blogs now? Did you google ARG and find a negative result on the tenth page and decide that was good enough to entirely undermine ARG's credibility? Did you even read the blog? Do you know whose blog it is and what his history with ARG's founder is? "Mr. Bennett's attempt to hide a substantial amount of cash from his deceased father's estate that should have been used for the care of his mother, is this sort of individual trustworthy as a head of a polling organization?" Sounds like a hatchet job by a guy with a grudge, no? But just for the sake of argument let's assume this guy is teling the truth...please tell us how Mr. Bennett's family financial dealings disqualify the finding that 78% of NH voters favor a speed limit? Specifically? How is the accuracy of the poll done by his employees undone by Bennett's relationship with his mother?

Originally Posted by Kracken

The poll question did not try to educate the sample in any way. Nor did it give specifics of what a speed limit should be.
When that happens you get answers like this:

Do you know anything about polling? Just because Katy Couric and Dan Rather might try to "educate" people before they "poll" them does not mean it is proper. Polls are not meant to "educate", they are meant to measure. ARG did a very accurate job measuring the opinion of Granite Staters on this issue. And based on the rising favorability during a time when the State's newspapers were flooded with discussion on this topic, it's hard to artgue that people did not understand what they were saying.

Originally Posted by Kracken

“I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some, people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our, uh, education like such as, uh, South Africa and uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and, I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, or, uh, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future, for our ….”

I looked and looked, but simply can't find where any of the NH voters polled by ARG said this or anything so irrelevant. In fact, it has the intelligence, coherence, and grammar that one would more likely expect from one of you guys. But please tell us again how it relates to this discussion.

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Thanks for the link. It further solidifies my position.

No surprise there. But I am surprised you guys are not just giving links to each other's posts to "solidify your positions". Have you thought of that? It makes as much sense.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by elchase

I wonder if everyone in the state would have favored the speed limit (except the 8 of you or course) had it been taken right after the crash of the boat driven by the NHRBA president. It's very surprising that you don't mention that.

Hey that screws up my movie- The magnificent 8 just does not sound right. Who is the newest member on your S List???

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Hey that screws up my movie- The magnificent 8 just does not sound right. Who is the newest member on your S List???

I was probably added as #8.

Originally Posted by elchase

My mother just died last month after a long and painful battle with cancer. I'm guessing after all the investigating of me that you guys did that you knew of this. You are a real class act.

I am truly sorry for your loss. My wife is an Med Oncology certified RN so she deals with this on a daily basis. I am a patient at that facility as well for a non-cancer related issue, and see first hand the pain that cancer survivors go through, as well as the success some have at beating it.

[Kracken]

If I were not ignoring him I would have to write a very long post.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Kracken

If I were not ignoring him I would have to write a very long post.

Sorry, I HAD to reply. His reply was just spun so horribly it warranted a quick vacation from the ignore list....

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by elchase

I wonder if everyone in the state would have favored the speed limit (except the 8 of you or course) had it been taken right after the crash of the boat driven by the NHRBA president. It's very surprising that you don't mention that.

Was that crash speed related? I forgot the outcome of the trial....

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by elchase

You claim to have been a professional statistician and you have to ask this question? Come on. Assuming as I must that you just made that up, if you have to ask this question, did you at least look at the link we discussed yesterday that explains all about the statistical accuracy of polls based on sample size, or do you only read stuff that you know is going to tell you what you want to hear? Did you even try to look into this yourself before you asked this question? Have you ever been to a casino? They must love to see "professional statisticians" like you coming.

A blog? Your resorting to blogs now? Did you google ARG and find a negative result on the tenth page and decide that was good enough to entirely undermine ARG's credibility? Did you even read the blog? Do you know whose blog it is and what his history with ARG's founder is? "Mr. Bennett's attempt to hide a substantial amount of cash from his deceased father's estate that should have been used for the care of his mother, is this sort of individual trustworthy as a head of a polling organization?" Sounds like a hatchet job by a guy with a grudge, no? But just for the sake of argument let's assume this guy is teling the truth...please tell us how Mr. Bennett's family financial dealings disqualify the finding that 78% of NH voters favor a speed limit? Specifically? How is the accuracy of the poll done by his employees undone by Bennett's relationship with his mother?

In the first paragraph, I did not make the numbers up. It is publish in the nh.gov website. If you can't find it, here is the link. Quit discrediting me.
http://www.nh.gov/oep/programs/DataC...CensusData.htm

In the second paragraph, I have searched and searched and have not found one positive blog or feedback regarding ARG. If you can find one, I will be more than happy to read it and take it into consideration.

What makes no sense if that how can 64% of those polled are in favor of the speed limit then 83% thinks 45/25 makes the lakes safer???? Does not make sense!

Show me the link to the 2007 poll that you are trying to tell me and I will believe you. ARG do not have that poll listed on their website. You need to back up what you say. Like I did.

[NoBozo]

Get some sleep. Have a Safe Trip. Enjoy the DRIVE. NB

[OCDACTIVE]

Ok.... I'm Back.............. Yup definately longer then 9 hours.... Left at 3 AM, hit white out conditions on the Mass Pike surrounded by 18 wheelers.. Always a good time.. LOL..

Didn't know exactly where the rest area stops would be so I stopped a few more times then necessary to top off. (better be safe then sorry) and pretty much just kept driving.... It took 11 1/2 hours..... Needless to say I needed a few cocktails by the end of that ride.....

Headed back to Atlantic City Sat and left there yesterday.. Great times.. (maybe if I get motivated I will post some pictures later)

But OCD is safe and sound.. Even got a friends kid to wash and wax her before be put away for her hibernation.

Looks like I didn't miss too much here.

[BroadHopper]

that you had a safe trip. I can't imagine driving a white boat in white out conditions. People think you have a stealth boat! LOL!

Time to put my boat away. I'm looking for storage as I lost my barn in Hooksett. I rented out my home because I lost my job and moved into my condo in Laconia. The boat is stored outside and I prefer inside storage. A couple of places I looked but the door height is not tall enough to accomodate the boat.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

that you had a safe trip. I can't imagine driving a white boat in white out conditions. People think you have a stealth boat! LOL!

Time to put my boat away. I'm looking for storage as I lost my barn in Hooksett. I rented out my home because I lost my job and moved into my condo in Laconia. The boat is stored outside and I prefer inside storage. A couple of places I looked but the door height is not tall enough to accomodate the boat.

I store my other boats at independent marina. Safe and reasonible on the rates. Check that out. Not sure if there is a time limit on when it had to be there though or availability.. Just a thought.

Yes 4 am, snow, tired, 18 wheelers = NOT FUN!

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I store my other boats at independent marina. Safe and reasonible on the rates. Check that out. Not sure if there is a time limit on when it had to be there though or availability.. Just a thought.

Yes 4 am, snow, tired, 18 wheelers = NOT FUN!

I saw Jon Haselton from Independent yesterday- they will be taking boats until Thanksgiving, give or take a day or 2

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by elchase

My mother just died last month after a long and painful battle with cancer. I'm guessing after all the investigating of me that you guys did that you knew of this. You are a real class act.

elchase,

What an awful tragedy. As many have said Cancer is an ugly thing and it can be devastating to families. I myself am a former President of my local Chapter of the American Cancer Society. I was chairperson of an event that raised over $200,000 during my tenure. I witnessed many a heartbreak with relation to Cancer. Fortunately I was able to witness many triumph's as well.

With that said this statment: "You are a real class act. " that you made towards gtagrip was a bit harsh. I am sure he had no idea and I am sure he would not have said it if he knew.

Your posting buddy TurtleBoy made a comment about my mother in an earlier post on this thread. Is he a real class act? He has no idea with regard to my mothers health or wellbeing.

I am sure your comment was made out of passion but I am also just as sure that gtagrip meant nothing personal. Jus as I believe TurtleBoy was only using a saying when he referred to me "hiding behind my mommy's skirt."

You two (elchase and Turlteboy) claim to be above the fray and victims in all of this. My thoughts lean towards, you reap what you sow and that you are not innocent in all of this.