Opposers Thread

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by SteveA

PS SIKSUKR I'm liberal.. but I take no offense.

Sorry Steve,thats not a personel dig just a general thought process of who is responsible for what.And I dont hold that against you either.You might be more conservative than you think.But don't hold that against me.

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

And I dont hold that against you either.You might be more conservative than you think.But don't hold that against me.

I was just having fun with ya!

[EricP]

I am opposed to the speed limit and have been all along. I do not believe there is a speed problem as other here have also stated. I also believe there are safety violations which are more of a concern to the safety of the public than speed will ever be.

I feel safer taking my SeaDoo across the broads than I do near the Weirs channel where there is congestion and Captain B's galore doing what they do best. Others on the forum have made the same observations in their areas, The Graveyard, Alton Bay, Winter Harbor, etc... (too many to recall and mention here).

If I had a decent camera I'd sit out there and film this stuff to bring to Concord, if anyone wants to and needs assistance I'll come sit in your boat with you and help. We need this type of evidence to show the problem and I think it will be more powerful than 100 rigged polls.

I like the idea of more MP presence to monitor these safety violations and offer a suggestion, what about a $5 surcharge on registrtions dedicated soley to staffing MP to increase safety patrols? I realize some won't like that, others will say "what about kayakers who don't register and therefore don't contribute?". I counter with "if spending $5 makes me safer then it is worth it". Something has to be done to actually improve safety and the speed limit will never accomplish that.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by EricP

I am opposed to the speed limit and have been all along. I do not believe there is a speed problem as other here have also stated. I also believe there are safety violations which are more of a concern to the safety of the public than speed will ever be.

I feel safer taking my SeaDoo across the broads than I do near the Weirs channel where there is congestion and Captain B's galore doing what they do best. Others on the forum have made the same observations in their areas, The Graveyard, Alton Bay, Winter Harbor, etc... (too many to recall and mention here).

If I had a decent camera I'd sit out there and film this stuff to bring to Concord, if anyone wants to and needs assistance I'll come sit in your boat with you and help. We need this type of evidence to show the problem and I think it will be more powerful than 100 rigged polls.

I like the idea of more MP presence to monitor these safety violations and offer a suggestion, what about a $5 surcharge on registrtions dedicated soley to staffing MP to increase safety patrols? I realize some won't like that, others will say "what about kayakers who don't register and therefore don't contribute?". I counter with "if spending $5 makes me safer then it is worth it". Something has to be done to actually improve safety and the speed limit will never accomplish that.

I'd pay the extra $5 or $10

[tis]

I wonder how many people truly would go 70 for longer than a couple of minutes. I must say I have never seen anyone go very fast for a long period of time. I think most check what is in front of them first and open it up for a while, then slow down. Maybe I am wrong. Anyone?

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by tis

I wonder how many people truly would go 70 for longer than a couple of minutes. I must say I have never seen anyone go very fast for a long period of time. I think most check what is in front of them first and open it up for a while, then slow down. Maybe I am wrong. Anyone?

Yes tis. Lost in all of this is that very fact that most of the guys that I have seen or the guys that have given me a ride on their boats usually go 30-50 and only rarely pump up the throttle once they can see a large clear path in front of them. It's way more fashionable for the other side to distort this and claim that performance boats travel willy nilly 75MPH all over the place where little children are swimming.

[caloway]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Yes tis. Lost in all of this is that very fact that most of the guys that I have seen or the guys that have given me a ride on their boats usually go 30-50 and only rarely pump up the throttle once they can see a large clear path in front of them. It's way more fashionable for the other side to distort this and claim that performance boats travel willy nilly 75MPH all over the place where little children are swimming.

yeah, that's the game isn't it? Supporters pretend someone almost ran over their puppy yesterday and opposers pretend GFBL boats operate in a bubble.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

1) A "couple of minutes" would handily cover the length of Rattlesnake Island.

As the kids say ... kewl.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

2) Surely, you've seen them run the full length of the Broads—including Rattlesnake Island. (Though it helps to observe from a sailboat and not a rapidly-moving platform).

Hmmm, and I'd have thought it would have been better to observe them from a rapidly moving platform.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

3) On most inland fresh water lakes, "a couple of minutes" will take them into something very solid.

Sounds like a good argument as to why Winni should be the lake they can run at "high" speed on.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

From a dock—and using binoculars—watch them leave on a day that's rough. While they don't "pitch" (a fore-and-aft motion) they will get tossed from side-to-side very strongly: that's why the seats in GFBLs have such generous bolsters.

You forgot to mention the drop out seat bottoms. And I'm surprised that all this tossing doesn't spill all their drinks. Oh wait mebbe that's only the cruisers flying the martini burgees. How much do they toss ? Pitch ? Betcha they have some pretty comfy bolster and seat bottoms too !!!

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Too many have painted their windshields (!) and gone waterskiing in Lake Winnipesaukee's bays, coves, and harbors: for that matter, too many of us "normal-sized" boaters have failed to look ahead when starting up with a water skiier.

Too many painted windshields. Wow that sure sounds bad. I've only seen a couple with tinted itty bitty wind deflectors. Next you'll be telling us how the drivers have painted glasses on ... what are they called .... oh yeah .... sunglasses. That sounds ever worserer.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Now I'll have to move my "train-wreck" and anti-"insurgent" points to a different thread about:

1) windshield-paintovers,
2) fat bolsters to keep from being hurt when being thrown out,
3) size/weight/wake inappropriateness in skiing/tubing of Winnipesaukee's bays, coves, and harbors,
4) hitting solid—and some not-so-solid—objects at speed, and the
5) inappropriate size, weight and speed for inland freshwater lakes of most ocean-racers seen on Winnipesaukee whose speeds can triple the present speed limit.

Please remember to add in running over innocent puppies.

[Kracken]

I was only stating I have never witnessed a Capt. Bonehead move by a performance boat. I was not suggesting none of them are Captain Boneheads.

Most people that spend that kind of money / time on any activity have vested interest in protecting and maintaining their property. I would actually go as far to say that most members of this forum have a passion for boating and therefore are not prone to having a CB moment. Personally, I am here to be informed and entertained, plus a great way to kill some time on the slow days. I have been boating for a long time but I am always learning and this forum is a great resource. Last week I learned that Vaseline can actually restore faded gel coat. My wife thinks I am obsessive when it comes to the boat. She saw me heading out to the boat with a smile on my face and a jar of Vaseline in my hand. She knew one day it would come to this.

My point is: If people have a vested interest and investment in an activity, for the most part they take the time and effort to learn how to do it right. You see very few good golfers that do not know the rules of golf.

[jmen24]

I do not have much to add to the debate other than I agree with the posts above in regard to opposing the SL. I am looking to purchase a boat that may or may not exceed the current limit (have not gotten to that part yet). I am however a huge fan of anything fast be it bikes, cars, planes or boats. There is nothing I enjoy more than seeing a craft that can go fast, do so, within able hands at reasonable areas.

I need to know where the 5 seconds to dump and orient number comes from for a kayaker on a Lake. You are out in the open with ample ability to see craft approaching you, I understand that other situations may present less time for you to see a craft approach but your are fully aware of your location prior to dumping.

My example to why that number is completely made up, I paddled the Dead River on Saturday at a small 2400cfs release. I dumped in Spencer Rips (which for those that do not know is a wave track that is not very technical, but the waves classify as class III due to size. I was fully aware that I was going to dump entering the first wave, I was fully aware of my location at that time. I was out of my boat by the time I was at the bottom of that first drop, I entered the wave at the bottom and surface on the other side, I had hold of my boat by the time I entered the third wave and was fully self rescued before the group on river left had blown three shots of the wistle. For those not familar, self rescued means back in control of your situation with all of your belongings at your control and no longer outside of the boat by yourself. I was back on my boat and in control of it before exiting the rip. That entire process was within a span of 6-7 seconds (one wistle blast every 2 seconds). That is in fast moving whitewater, on a lake it would take you 5 seconds just to fall out of the boat and figure out your location? I think you need to adjust your number. If your agument is that experience plays a role in reaction ability your are right and that also means that the person in your senerio needs to stay far away from open water and practice closer to shore.

[caloway]

I figured 1 second for problem identification and reaction, 1 second to roll the boat, 1 sec to roll out of the skirt and a couple of seconds to come up and orient. And that doesn't even get you out of the way.

Let's be honest, though, a paddler-turned-swimmer isn't going to be able to get out of the way fast enough to matter.

Not sure about river paddling. My experience is primarily ocean off of southern Maine and Cape Ann. The middle of the lake is pretty comparable to cape and bay paddling.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by caloway

I figured 1 second for problem identification and reaction, 1 second to roll the boat, 1 sec to roll out of the skirt and a couple of seconds to come up and orient. And that doesn't even get you out of the way.

Let's be honest, though, a paddler-turned-swimmer isn't going to be able to get out of the way fast enough to matter.

Not sure about river paddling. My experience is primarily ocean off of southern Maine and Cape Ann. The middle of the lake is pretty comparable to cape and bay paddling.

Lets see here I understand where you come up with 5 secs.... and yep if you did each of those items independant of each other and serial this would be true..... but what the reality is, is that these things all happen kind of simutaneously..... Sure it might take a second to identify and react to the problem I will give you that one.... but while you rolling the boat, you are also undoing the skirt and poping out... so lets knock that down to say 1.5 secs..... now you have to surface and orient your self... once again these are happening simultaneously and I believe, if you where oriented when you rolled and popped oreintation should take long... so I think we can knock this donw to 1.25 secs.
so my math gives me 3.75 secs... now not everyone is as fast.... so 4 secs....

My point here is not to squable over 5 secs vs. 4 secs..... my point is this, to define how long something like this will take is not easy..... things happen in parallel.... not step by step.....

I kayak, if I was in my kayak and saw a boat comming towards, me and I didn;t seem to get there attention, yep I would take a breath roll, dave and swim under water as far as I could away from the situation.... I am not going to roll and come right back up to re-evaluate the situation until I am out of breath.......