A life Jacket Question

[LIforrelaxin]

At somepoint last year I heard debate somewhere that the was consideration on the part of the coast guard to make the Orange standard type II preservers that we have grown up with obsolete and that the new standard would be to have vests for all passangers....

Now I know that the Marine Patrol is not the Coast Guard but I would assume NH would follow suit on something like this.

So my questions are simple: Has any buddy else heard of this debate? And does anybody know if it is something that is still being considered.....

Thanks

[ApS]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

At some point last year I heard debate somewhere that the was consideration on the part of the coast guard to make the Orange standard type II preservers that we have grown up with obsolete and that the new standard would be to have vests for all passangers....

Now I know that the Marine Patrol is not the Coast Guard but I would assume NH would follow suit on something like this.

So my questions are simple: Has any buddy else heard of this debate? And does anybody know if it is something that is still being considered.....

Thanks

Mandatory wearing of PFDs was the word the Coast Guard Commander "floated" two winters ago—and it was for all passengers in a moving boat.

It got shot down pretty quickly by special interest groups, and I'll bet he's sorry he ever suggested it.

I recall one boater-group known for speed, noise and fashion complaining, "How are we going to look cool while wearing PFDs?"

[AC2717]

I have heard nothing to this effect anywhere to be honest. I would hope that if this were the case they would stop selling them anyways, but to be honest there is a alot of things that are not regulation or to code that are sold.

[SIKSUKR]

That's the first I've heard of that.Actually,those LP's are very good at keeping the person's head above water.Marine patrol wear similar ones.

[Misty Blue]

Took an upgrade class in Ft. Lauderdale last January (tough to take!) and they told me that there has been a change.

Type IIs are still legal on non-commercial vessels as a wearable PFD. The change is in their construction. They will not be made with Kapok (that fiber-fill looking stuff) any more. The flotation (I think 15.5 lbs.) must be made out of foam. The reason was that the kapok was sealed in bags and if the bag rips the kapok can waterlog while the foam types will not.

The last that I heard was that the old, kapok type are still allowed provided that they are in "servicable condition".

I'll double check with the CG but that is what they told me at the school.

Hope this helps.

Misty Blue

[Coastal Laker]

Originally Posted by Misty Blue

Took an upgrade class in Ft. Lauderdale last January (tough to take!) and they told me that there has been a change.

Type IIs are still legal on non-commercial vessels as a wearable PFD. The change is in their construction. They will not be made with Kapok (that fiber-fill looking stuff) any more. The flotation (I think 15.5 lbs.) must be made out of foam. The reason was that the kapok was sealed in bags and if the bag rips the kapok can waterlog while the foam types will not.

The last that I heard was that the old, kapok type are still allowed provided that they are in "servicable condition".

I'll double check with the CG but that is what they told me at the school.

Hope this helps.

Misty Blue

A lot of people don't realize that the Kapok Type II's are referred to as "near shore" vests because of the anticipated quick rescue if you are closer to the shore. This is because the Kapok will become waterlogged and ineffective (ie: you sink). So, you won't float forever with one of those.

[Silver Duck]

If by "vests" you're referring to the type 3 ski vests, most have one very serious limitation. They're not designed to turn an unconscious person face up in the water, the way the type 2s are.

I'd be quite reluctant to substitute ski vests for my type 2s.

Silver Duck

[jrc]

(1) A type I personal flotation device shall be designed to turn an unconscious person in the water from a face downward to a vertical or slightly backward position. It shall have more than 20 pounds of buoyancy and is recommended for off-shore cruising;
(2) A type II personal flotation device shall be designed to turn an unconscious person in the water to the same position as a Type I personal flotation device and shall have at least 15.5 pounds of buoyancy. It is recommended for closer, in-shore cruising;
(3) A type III device shall be designed to keep a conscious person in a vertical or slightly backward position and shall have at least 15.5 pounds of buoyancy. It is recommended for in-water sports such as water skiing, and for close, in-shore buoyancy;
(4) A type IV personal flotation device shall be designed to be thrown to a person in the water and not worn. It shall have at least 16.5 pounds of buoyancy; and
(5) A type V personal flotation device is intended for specific activities and may be carried instead of another PFD only if used according to the approval condition on the label.

Does anyone really still make kapok filled vests? I only see synthetic fill, since the maybe the 1970's.

The $5 dollar orange PFD from Walmart or that came with your boat is a Type 3.

[Kamper]

I dont remember seeing new kapok PFD's in decades. Maybe they were in catalogs but not in stores.

I think the reason they fell out of favor was primarily the expense. Many folks just caried this gear because they had to and never really believed they would need it, so why pay more? We all carry safety gear because it's smart, right?

Experience has shown that closed-cell foam is more durable in use and storage than kapok stuffed items. Cheap and durable material make the transition an easier decision for everybody. "Grandfathering" the exisitng articles (as long as they are servicable) reduces the whining from the few operators who still old stuff.

Speaking of old stuff... I had some cork life-jackets. They had a manufacture date in the 50's. The blocks of cork felt sound but the canvas was failing. This seems to parralel nylon and foam PFD's. The shell fails before the flotation does. With kapok it's the opposite.

[LIforrelaxin]

Thanks all of you who replied once again this Forum show its usefulness. Like I said I had just heard some mumblings in passing and didn't have a lot of details. which is why I brought it up here. I figured that if there really was something being considered someone here would know about it. To my relief there is nothing brewing and no need to worry. I know all my PFDs are in good shape, I always take them out of the boat in the fall so that I have to look at them in the spring.....

[SAMIAM]

I recall one boater-group known for speed, noise and fashion complaining, "How are we going to look cool while wearing PFDs?" ????
Acres per Second
__________________
Sorry......I just don't believe that quote from Acres.
I don't own a performance boat but know many people that do.As a group,I believe they are more knowledgable and safety conscious than many other boaters.A go fast boat is not for the entry level buyer.......most are entering their second childhood.are middle aged and have been boating for many years.

[ApS]

The following quote is not what I had bookmarked, but is the only one that remains family-friendly and an active link:

"We can talk all we want about how great jackets are...God forbid it became a law, cuz we would all scream that our right to look cool has been violated. "

To spare Don a lot of potential grief, use Google to find the source: pfd, look-cool, scream (use the hyphen).

An all-too-familiar site will appear on page one of Google, under "Boat Wreck".

At post #22, note the poster's all-too-familiar location.

[Misty Blue]

I have an opinion on this one.

While it is true that a Type I or II will turn an unconcious person into a face up position in the water I have never seen an unconcious person in the water.

The only at all likley situation that I can think of is if you were knocked overboard by the boom during an accidental jibe. What are the chances that you would be wearing a Type I or II at the time?

I like type IIIs, the flotation aid. Why? Because you can get people to WEAR them. I will sometimes have a guest on the Misty who is uncomfortable on the water and I offer them a Type III to wear. I have never had it turned down. If I offered an uncomfortable and dumb looking Type I or II they would be less likley to put it on.

When I carry children who require a life jacket commercially I offer the parents a type III even though we carry the Type Is by law. The kids will tollerate the jackets with Barbies and Ninja Turtles on them and will skream bloody murder when in a stiff, bulky Type I.

When we do CG patrols we wear Type IIIs. I think that that says a lot.

Again, we all got one and that is my opinion.

Misty Blue.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

APS, you might want to include the context of that post

When we were kids, no-one wore seatbelts in cars, nor would anyone wear a helmet when riding a bike. It just wasn't cool. But now, that has changed, and for the better obviously. Maybe, someday, that will happen in boating as well. But, it has to start with the boat owners. God forbid it became a law, cuz we would all scream that our right to look cool has been violated. My .02

Sounds like the poster was using a bit of sarcasm. Guess the whole post didn't suit your needs so you extracted something (out of context) that did. More from that thread:

No one rides in my boat if they don't want to wear a jacket.

I agree about the life jackets. Lifejackets are MANDATORY at the Scope Poker Run and the Havasu Poker runs

I could go on ... Sorry for hijacking this (as APS has), but I can't let that kind of editorializing go uncalled.

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by Misty Blue

I have an opinion on this one.

While it is true that a Type I or II will turn an unconcious person into a face up position in the water I have never seen an unconcious person in the water.
...

I believe the USCG and SOLAS standards were written so equipment would cover the widest possible spectrum of circumstances. Even if a person hits the water conscious they might not remain that way. They could go into shock from an injury or for psycological reasons. Hypothermia could set in. Even in scary situations people eventually fall asleep.

Just my take on that.

[SAMIAM]

I did google that up,Acres,and you were right......people often stretch the truth a little to make a point in their favor.....I officially apologize for doubting you.
I did see it as a tongue in cheek remark rather than a serious statement on the merits of pfd's. but it was there all right!

[ApS]

Now I owe Samiam two thank-you acknowledgements.

BTW, I found that I own one of those kapok-filled Type II vests.

Its cover appears to be a much better quality of material than the foam vests—bulkier, but more comfortable. Its capacity may be greater than 15 pounds. When the water gets warmer, I'll get a fish scale and do an underwater comparison of the two different Type IIs for floatation.

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

"...Sounds like the poster was using a bit of sarcasm..."

Maybe...maybe not: in that reply, I saw empty rhetoric.

It's a crowd known more for testosterone than sense. Even on Winnipesaukee's very rough waters yesterday, there wasn't a PFD to be seen among any of the "fast-crowd" boaters.