Accident on the Broads

Rattlesnake Gal · 07-03-2004, 05:33 PM

This accident happened around 5:45 this evening. I do not know any details. Hope eveyone is all right.

madrasahs · 07-03-2004, 09:16 PM

Hey! Isn't that one of those whatchamacallit boats? With the special nose?

1) The one that a new owner can enjoy working on the engines?

2) That is fast so that one can see all of the lake in the shortest amount of time?

3) The one that pollutes less than other boats?

4) The one that gives the most comfort while on the Broads?

Well, the lake water is comfortable enough, so that boat meets every requirement!

('Didn't think about seeing under the surface,

though).

madrasahs · 07-03-2004, 10:35 PM

A boat malfunction.

Could be.

Now that you mention it, the whatchamacallit boat I was thinking of usually "malfunctions" to an up-side-down posture.

Still, you should be hearing from the many folks who maintain that you're wrong. "It's not the boat -- it's the driver."

I think it's the boat.

Sculpin · 07-04-2004, 09:09 AM

I was out Salmon fishing and the boat that flipped Sat at 545 pm was 200-300 yds ahead of me doing donuts. they were going 50-60 yds straight and then turning sharp left turns, Powering up and down. If the boat was malfunctioning, (as someone suggested) why would it come back to straight and be powering up and down. It appeared that they were driving aggressively to say the least.
I was the closest boat , but 2-3 boats had them picked up b4 I could even start to get my lines up BY THE WAY I got a nice salmon 5 mins after the stunt men flipped the boat!!!!!!

Just Sold · 07-04-2004, 10:43 AM

First.... from what was said it appears no one was serioulsy hurt and that is a good thing.

Second...
From Sculpin's description the driver was driving recklessly and without regard for their passengers or others on the lake. There is no excuse for driving that way on any lake.

It goes to show you that there are those people who should not own or be allowed to use another person's high powered (off shore type) or regular power boat for that matter.

I am not sure it would work but some people I have talked to lately even promote a driving school and test requirement for all boaters along with the current Boating Safety Course.

You can show them the ropes of boating but they need to show more resonsibilty for their actions when on the water.

Belmont Resident · 07-05-2004, 07:04 AM

The boat was being operated by the owner who from what I heard and observed from his attitude when I met him, has a liking for reckless operation. I met him last year while at West Alton sand bar.
My impression is he has little or no regard for other boaters or the rules of the water. He is the type who gives all of us a bad reputation. The boat is a Cigarette boat purchased from a well know singer or actor who had it down in Florida. To bad it was a really nice looking boat.
Glad none of the passengers were hurt.

RI Swamp Yankee · 07-05-2004, 10:03 PM

Now that I have the red and black figured out, someone starts placing white buoys?

CMG · 07-06-2004, 12:22 AM

Just Sold, if you were born after January 1, 1973 this would already apply to you: http://www.boat-ed.com/nh/course/p4-3_whomayoperate.htm
(it will apply to all by 2007)

A person under 16 years of age may not legally operate a vessel powered by more than 25 horsepower unless he or she is accompanied by a person 18 years of age or older who has a valid Safe Boater Education Certificate. The accompanying person is responsible for any injury or damage caused during operation of the vessel.

No one under the age of 16 years may legally operate a “ski craft” (a vessel less than 13 feet in length that is capable of exceeding 20 miles per hour and has capacity to carry no more than two persons).

Subject to the restrictions above, persons as shown on the table below may operate a vessel powered by more than 25 horsepower only if he or she has obtained a Safe Boater Education Certificate.

The certificate must be obtained by successfully completing a boating safety course or equivalency exam approved by the New Hampshire Marine Patrol or a National Association of State Boating Law Administrators (NASBLA) approved course of another state.
The certificate must be carried onboard.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm just happy noone was killed. If anone hears the real details please post.
Thanks, Chris

Just Sold · 07-06-2004, 10:23 AM

CMG,

I did realize the law and the requirements for boating and the responsibility of the person driving. I am way before 1973....I started coming to the lake in the mid 50's... and took the course in 2002.

I am not against anyone owning or legally driving a boat. I only pointed out that there are those that do not follow what they had to have studied in the boating safety course. There are those that will always do what they want even if it endangers others including their passengers.

I am not against off shore boats or their owners either. It is just not the type of boating I enjoy.

We all share the precious resource of Lake Winnipesaukee and we should keep it safe for everyone. It is a privilege not a right!

John A. Birdsall · 07-09-2004, 06:00 PM

Quote:

I did realize the law and the requirements for boating and the responsibility of the person driving. I am way before 1973....I started coming to the lake in the mid 50's... and took the course in 2002.

I am not against anyone owning or legally driving a boat. I only pointed out that there are those that do not follow what they had to have studied in the boating safety course. There are those that will always do what they want even if it endangers others including their passengers.

I am not against off shore boats or their owners either. It is just not the type of boating I enjoy.

We all share the precious resource of Lake Winnipesaukee and we should keep it safe for everyone. It is a privilege not a right!

It seems to me that any boating instruction prior to granting a license would only make sense. You can go over the internet and get a license if you can pass the test. How many got that with the help of someone sitting beside them while taking it.

When I was in Jr. High school my father, my brother and I all took a coast guard boating coarse it lasted perhaps three months and their was homework. Most enjoyable homework that I ever had.

madrasahs · 07-06-2004, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

"...My impression is he has little or no regard for other boaters or the rules of the water. He is the type who gives all of us a bad reputation. The boat is a Cigarette boat..."

"OPERATOR MADE A HIGH SPEED TURN CAUSING THE BOAT TO CAPSIZE. OPERATOR WAS CITED FOR FAILURE TO EXERCISE THE HIGHEST DEGREE OF CARE."

"He's" got company. That's a quote from a police report on a flipped Cigarette in Missouri last month. (Not a problem for family tubing, skiing, sightseers, night-time dinner trips, and sailboats if the "Offshores" are offshore in the ocean).

http://www.mswp.state.mo.us/news/NRD...ict=&ID=040025

CMG · 07-06-2004, 09:38 AM

The majority of "Offshore" boaters are safe and courteous (are all elderly drivers dangerous, did you see the news last night? old lady went thru roof of house!). We all deal with the sky rocketing insurance rates due to accidents like this and few deserve the rising cost and reputation. (btw, I have many years in offshore boats, never had an incident,insurance claim or ticket of any type) It seems most of the accidents like this happen with inexperienced operators, they try to find the limits of the boat and obviously go to far.

BTW, they are referred as "offshore" boats because of their ability to withstand offshore conditions - if you spend anytime on the lake you know how rough it can get. They are the only kind of boat to be on when the water kicks up, reagrdless of desired speed. Mine is only 31 feet and have been in monster conditions offshore and always make it back in 1 piece. I spend little time on the lake because it seems like an endless rookie trianing camp for new and discourteous boaters, reagrdless of type and size.
Happy boating!

Belmont Resident · 07-06-2004, 10:23 AM

I inquired on a previous post of madrashs opinion of boats by asking his opinion of what is an offshore. Basicly anything with a motor he dislikes.
My heart goes out to those people who are getting taxed off of the lake.
In his case I and many others I've talked to on the lake that read the postings on this forum will not miss him if this should happen.
madrashs your postings have gotten so bad I've noticed that Skip is one of the only few who bother to debate you. Most of us just see your name attached and don't bother to read.
I get frustrated with boating on the lake but I've never seen a more negative person in my life. One can only hope there are not more like him.

Bill B · 07-06-2004, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

Most of us just see your name attached and don't bother to read.

Hey Belmont Resident, how do you know what MOST of us think or read. I've never posted before, how do you know what I think? Why don't you speak for yourself?

Sorry to disappoint you but I think there is a lot of truth in what he says. A speed or HP limit is badly needed on this inland lake and will arrive someday. Mark my words.

MAXUM · 07-06-2004, 10:30 AM

Good another one bites the dust. Serves this jack *** right!

CMG · 07-06-2004, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Good another one bites the dust. Serves this jack *** right!

This is quite a site you have here - finding peasure in an accident that could have killed someone. Maxum, I am sure that you have never had a speeding ticket, an accident or whatever in a car. If you or one of your family dies in a drowning accident, you won't mind if some finds glee in it and posts a yahoo!

For the record, if he could afford a $400,000 boat, he'll get another one. Enjoy the couple of days that there is 1 less boat on your lake.

MAXUM · 07-06-2004, 09:58 PM

CMG-

Where the heck do you get off here anyways?

What am I supposed to feel bad for somebody who's own witnessed reckless actions caused this to happen?

Ya OK you're right even though he was traveling at EXCESSIVE speed, taking ABRUPT and SHARP turns that was perfectly SAFE operation. Nah you're right that had NOTHING to do with it at all. If anything the poor guy must have been the victim of a faulty boat as it could not handle such safe and elementary operation. Oh and to heck with the fact that his irresponsible behavior put how much gas and oil into the lake? So sorry for my lack of compassion here but I find it extremely unfortuante that the Darwin theory was not applied here to save us all any future accidents waiting to happen courtesy for this idiot.

Oh and I'm not claiming the lake as my own either, where ever that came from. But excuse me if I don't get just slighty PO'd when a totally avoidable "accident" like this occurs as gas and oil don't do a whole heck of a lot to the water quality which in case you didn't know effects EVERYONE who uses the lake. Not to mention the cost of time and materials having the MP show up and deal with this whole thing, I'm sure his insurance will not refund the taxpayers for the full cost of time and materials on this one. I'm no tree hugger by any strech of the imagination, but I also do not condone irresponsible use of our natural resources either.

IF this had been an unfortunate accident then I would feel bad for everyone involved. This guy was clearly pushing the limits and found out the hard way what happens when you push to far. I hope he's d**nmed proud of himself.

Oh one last thing, as for speeding tickets and accidents, you are right never been in or had a one, but then again I choose not to break the law either which call me silly probably has something to do with my lack of either.

CMG · 07-07-2004, 06:33 AM

"Ya OK you're right even though he was traveling at EXCESSIVE speed, taking ABRUPT and SHARP turns that was perfectly SAFE operation."
At what point did I say that?

"If anything the poor guy must have been the victim of a faulty boat as it could not handle such safe and elementary operation"
This is news to me

"Oh one last thing, as for speeding tickets and accidents, you are right never been in or had a one, but then again I choose not to break the law either which call me silly probably has something to do with my lack of either."
Good for you gramps.

You have an over-active imagination, I said nothing to justify the incident or his operation of the boat, my problem is with a jack*** cheering an accident.

MAXUM · 07-07-2004, 11:36 AM

Simply stated, why should I feel bad for a person who was being reckless? Far from it, I stand by my inital comment. If this person had gotten killed I still would not feel bad. If this had really been an accident not caused by reckless operation then I would feel bad.

Nice call me gramps for being a good law abiding citizen. That certainly is a fine example to set. Oh and for the record here I have a VERY long way to go before you can call me gramps...

madrasahs · 07-08-2004, 09:47 AM

It's raining

, so here goes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

I inquired on a previous post of madrashs opinion of boats by asking his opinion of what is an offshore. Basicly anything with a motor he dislikes.

I own a powerboat.

Quote:

My heart goes out to those people who are getting taxed
off of the lake.

My neighbors (of a half-century) sold out last year because they couldn't maintain a repeat summer rental business. Reason? Big Wake damage to the renters' "small" boats.

Quote:

In his case I and many others I've talked to on the lake
that read the postings on this forum will not miss him if this should happen.

My e-mailed "Fan-mail" and "Hate-mail" is running 50-50. Not bad, considering this straight-from-the shoulder, provocative style.

Quote:

madrashs your postings have gotten so bad I've noticed that Skip is one of the only few who bother to debate you. Most of us just see your name attached and don't bother to read.

Thanks for reading.

Quote:

I get frustrated with boating on the lake but I've never seen a more negative person in my life.

1) Yeah, I'm really down on ocean boats inappropriate for Winnipesaukee.
2) Negative? Wait a minute -- didn't you first post the terms "Weekend Warrior", "Drinking--while Boating Responsibly", "Staring-down a boater with the ROW?" and kayak "Speed Bumps"?

These posts just beg answering!

Quote:

One can only hope there are not more like him.

If you don't like Winnipesaukee bald eagle sightings, old boats, handpumped wells, sailboating, local weather predicting, the quiet, leveling dock suggestions, swimming moose observations, mooring constructioin, the loons, bats, hummingbirds, kayak speedbumps, help with repairing your dock, locating sailboat sails, help finding a dog, moose/auto avoidance, finding Camp Wyanoke e-addresses, New Hampshire history...

or...

If you like Winnipesaukee water pollution, air pollution, milfoil, McMansions, Mega-Yachts, E. coli, silting-in, oil-spills, Big Wakes, unlighted boats at night, loud exhaust, non-enforcement of laws, Class "B" lake water, "View-Clearing", big green lawns, frantic drivers, extinctions, algae, burglar alarms, fishing the beds, murky water, Suburbia growing on Winnipesaukee's hills, Aspenization, monied interests, lobbyists, drunks, loose swim rafts, gas boycotts, bad drivers, and losing New Hampshire's small airports, there is always the buddy/ignore page: http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...hp?do=editlist

Offshore boaters would still be happy if Lake Winnipesaukee was a mix of saltwater and ethylene glycol -- especially if that mixture caused those boats to gain 4 MPH.

Me, my parents -- and their parents -- have lived, sipped, and camped, Lake Winnipesaukee.

We would be unhappy.

Mee-n-Mac · 07-08-2004, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madrasahs

It's raining

, so here goes: {snip}
Offshore boaters would still be happy if Lake Winnipesaukee was a mix of saltwater and ethylene glycol -- especially if that mixture caused those boats to gain 4 MPH.

Or to be more discerning, the way the messenger puts out his message (for me anyway). The snippet above is 1 example of the emotional drivel* you put forth to prop up your positions. Do you really think insulting all "offshore" operators is necessary ? Another is the cherry picking you do when finding boating accidents, presumably to show how bad the "bad boats" are. I just googled boating + accident and picked the 1'st 5 reports that listed boat size and were non-commercial. Here they are with boat size listed in () ;
http://www.kptv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1936820 (18' aluminum)

http://www.kxly.com/common/getStory.asp?id=37765 (22' )

http://www.baxterbulletin.com/news/updates/7166.html (18 ')

http://www.rbbi.com/folders/acc/lisland/lisland.htm (18')

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?n...d=455823&rfi=6 (16')

Not a 1 was an "offshore" nor "over-sized". Nor did you comment on the child that was killed when she fell out of her bowrider (too small a boat for your attention ?) although you did try to infer that the waves mentioned in 2 other accidents came from "too large" vessels (any evidence to support this ? Could be this is why the newspaper didn't state it as such). I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds this selective editting of accident reports as enlightening and as fair as the political ads we'll see on TV this year*. Don't get me wrong, I certainly support your "right" (wrong word but you get my meaning) to express your viewpoints, even when I disagree, but expect some arguments when your unbalanced claptrap* pegs somebodys BS meter.

With regard to this incident, we only have Sculpin's report of the happenings. I believe sharp turns, powering up & down and agressive were the key words. Since I have no idea of how close he was to other boaters, what the people in his boat were told, how fast he was actually going or his level of experience - I can't say he was reckless (from hyperdictionary: Inattentive to duty; careless; neglectful; indifferent.) as has been bandied about. He might well have been or maybe he just let his driving exceed his capabilities. Incompetence seems proven, reckless yet to come, perhaps.

As you mentioned above, it does seem possible that this may be another case of stepped hull hook-n-snag, as it appears last years flip was. So is this the boat or the driver ? I know your answer but I wonder if someone were to spin a vintage 911 (I think you have some experience with these) whilst cornering would you say this was the car or the driver ? Oh wait I recall your answer from last year from a similar discussion; the car is the driver as well. Silly me*. The rest of us go about thinking we're responsible for our actions, not trying to find fault with the devices we're operating. How very Old-Winni style of us*.

Lastly I would agree w/MAXUM (though I have less condemnation) in that I don't have much sympathy for the person at the helm. While I'm glad to hear nobody was hurt, it certainly seems he was testing the limits and found his.

*so how do you like my emotional, provocative, shoot from the lip style ? I could have phrased things differently, and still expressed the same views, but I wanted to make a point. Hope I did. I now return to my normal posting style.

madrasahs · 07-09-2004, 07:55 AM

Quote: