The Meredith News Editorial AGAINST speed limit

[ITD]

It seems there has been a change in staff over at The Meredith News. The informative, accurate, well written editorial speaks out against the speed limit on the lake. I provide a link here but the site requires a subscription. http://www.meredithnhnews.com/ (scroll to bottom for beginning of editorial)

Anyway, the editorial speaks of a "solution looking for a problem" and discusses the unenforceability of the law. It also advocates for an "initiative to actually enforce laws that are already in effect;" as a more effective safety measure than an ill conceived (my words) speed limit.

The editorial points out the bill's precarious situation due to the fact that Gov. Lynch has said he may not sign it into law. I don't trust that Gov. Lynch will not sign the bill. The paranoid side of me thinks that this may be a ploy to get the Senate to pass the buck, hoping that the Gov. will not sign the bill if it gets to him, taking the political heat. I think the Gov. will sign the bill if he gets it and I urge the Senate to defeat this bill when they get it.

Good paper that Meredith News, lots of local stories......

[fatlazyless]

And what do Irwin Marine, Lakeport Landing, HK Motorsports, Shep Brown's Boat Basin, Channel Marine, Thurston's Marine, Glendale Marine, Paugus Bay Marine, Silver Sands, & Meredith Marine all have in common. They all buy advertising in the Meredith News or one of its' sister newspapers like the Gilford Steamer.

Does the Meredith News know who is buttering their bread? What do you think?
........

236-111 ..........14-10........hut-hut-hut............hike!!!

[ITD]

Are you insinuating bias in the media???? Huh????? I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!!!!!!!

[Bear Islander]

"....hopefully will be defeated based on its numerous flaws, the chief one being that it is unenforceable. Proponents claim that marine patrol could use radar guns to accurately track boat speeds. Last summer, Salmon Press actually went out on the water to test this theory, with the help of the Gilford Police Department, and found that the radar guns almost always inaccurately clocked the test boat's speed,..."

So it seems the Meredith News thinks the data collected by the MP in the speed zones last summer are invalid.

Just pointing out one of those "you can't have it both ways" things.

The other one I like is that "the speed study shows nobody is speeding". Contrasted with "enforcement will be impossible, cost a fortune, ruin the economy.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

"....hopefully will be defeated based on its numerous flaws, the chief one being that it is unenforceable. Proponents claim that marine patrol could use radar guns to accurately track boat speeds. Last summer, Salmon Press actually went out on the water to test this theory, with the help of the Gilford Police Department, and found that the radar guns almost always inaccurately clocked the test boat's speed,..."

So it seems the Meredith News thinks the data collected by the MP in the speed zones last summer are invalid.

Just pointing out one of those "you can't have it both ways" things.

The other one I like is that "the speed study shows nobody is speeding". Contrasted with "enforcement will be impossible, cost a fortune, ruin the economy.

That would fall under discussion of unenforceability of the law. At this point I would also bring up APS' point of "unpaid volunteers", except in this case (Salmon press) one could argue true neophytes attempting to operate in a totally unfamiliar environment. For the record, I don't want it both ways. If I accept your arguement at face value BI as you obviously do, I would point out the ludicrousness of a speed limit that can't be enforced and fire right back at ya " You can't have it both ways..."


Certainly the arguements against the speed limit far outweigh the arguements for it.


Less, you can blame NHPR, I blame the mass exodus of Mass. liberals from the hellhole they created down here, to the "red state" heaven up north. You're right though, times are a changin'. I wonder where they'll go when NH is wrecked?????!

[Bear Islander]

If they are "true neophytes attempting to operate in a totally unfamiliar environment" then their opinions of the need for speed limits are equally suspect.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

If they are "true neophytes attempting to operate in a totally unfamiliar environment" then their opinions of the need for speed limits are equally suspect.

Ah, but that is how I would classify you in the same situation, so that would make your opinions suspect also....

[Airwaves]

Okay BI, here are some stats for you to enjoy

First, the 2006 NEW HAMPSHIRE boating stats! Goodness, it appears to have already been posted (and ignored by supporters of speed limits) on this very forum by Woodsy!
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=4283

Now, how about those Coast Guard stats for 2006 whose summary you quoted? The state by state breakout starts on page 23.

http://uscgboating.org/statistics/Bo...stics_2006.pdf

Now go ahead and cross reference the two documents. 5 of the 6 fatals in NH were drownings, 2 when boats sank and 3 while jumping or falling off a boat. The 6th was a hit and run on Goose Pond!

There was ONE accident on Lake Winnipesaukee at a speed over the limit proposed by HB 847. A person on a Personal Water Craft fell while doing 49mph. There was a second incident listed as Excessive Speed during a sharp turn.

Gee, you mean the Marine Patrol actually uses the Excessive Speed for the conditions regulation? I thought you speed limit advocates said it was too vague???

So where are all the speeding Go Fast boats that are sending you into a panic and making Winnipesaukee the most dangerous body of water on the planet????

Looks like they are boating safely and enjoying themselves.

The Marine Patrol did research and found that less than 1% of the boats they clocked were above the proposed limits and certainly none were operating in a dangerous or negligent manner or they would have been arrested.

The only fear on Lake Winnipesaukee is the fear that has been artificially generated by Winnfabs and the "get the Go Fast boats off our lake" crowd.

[fatlazyless]

Well, like everyone else, the newspapers get a monthly electric, heating & property tax bill, and the money has to come from somewhere.

Basically, every newspaper is biased and it's been that way forever. It's called reading between the lines, or something. As Lord Ashton (England 1887) said in another thread, "All power corrupts, and all power currupts absolutely!"

Meredith is fortunate to have three local papers, the Meredith News, the Laconia Daily Sun, and the Laconia Citizen. Local newspapers coexisting in the same market is a good thing for their readers and advertisers. Just look what's happened to fm radio, nation-wide. And to think that New Hampshire public radio used to be almost all classical music. If any one media can be held responsible for NH's turning from red to blue, it's got to be Radio NHPR and Garrison Keillor's 'Prairie Home Companion.'

........
Today's www.cmonitor.com features 'Evenstar - Arwen' in a long article. She has contributed a lot of compelling, long distance, kayak posts which are probably news to many of the boaters that read this forum.. Like, If New Hampshire just had the Union Leader we'd all be thinking, just scream 'live free or die' and that's the answer for everything.....good grief.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

........
Today's www.cmonitor.com features 'Evenstar - Arwen' in a long article. She has contributed a lot of compelling, long distance, kayak posts which are probably news to many of the boaters that read this forum...

Did I miss the part where Evenstar claimed to be Arwen or vice versa? I mean sure there's some overlap in towns and sports but it's a pretty big jump to make, unless I missed something.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by jrc

Did I miss the part where Evenstar claimed to be Arwen or vice versa? I mean sure there's some overlap in towns and sports but it's a pretty big jump to make, unless I missed something.

Evenstar is Arwen. I can vouch for that. I have never met her but assure you they are the same.

[Dave R]

Arwen Evenstar is a character in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. She's the elf played by Liv Tyler in the movie. The odds of "Arwen" not being "Evenstar" are pretty slim. I don't think she's trying to hide her Internet identity by calling herself one or the other. It's not like those are obscure books...

[fatlazyless]

Buried somewhere in all her posts, she says her name is Arwen, an unusual name, and probably more than once, and I remembered that. What the heck, the Concord Monitor doesn't publish a big. long, Sunday, front-page. article like that, without the person's permission. Being stuck inside on a snowy-blowy day, waiting for a flag to fly out on the ice, I took a gander at the Concord Monitor. Small world,New Hampshire.

In full disclosure, I confess to being a local loser, and all-around knucklehead......but the speed limits will still soon be THE LAW anyway.....so there.....cheers!

hey Arwen......great posts.....keep on paddlin'.....& may the force be with you!

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Arwen Evenstar is a character in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. She's the elf played by Liv Tyler in the movie. The odds of "Arwen" not being "Evenstar" are pretty slim. I don't think she's trying to hide her Internet identity by calling herself one or the other. It's not like those are obscure books...

I recognized Arwen from the movies, I read the books in high school, in the 70's. The Hobbit was required reading and many followed up with the Rings. I forgot that she even had a last name.

So it's pretty well corroborated, absent denial from Evenstar, I believe they are one and the same.

I don't pretend to understand it, but that's one hell of a story.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by jrc

So it's pretty well corroborated, absent denial from Evenstar, I believe they are one and the same.

I don't pretend to understand it, but that's one hell of a story.

The story in the Monitor was about me. My middle name is actually Eve, which is short for Evenstar.

Hey, I still don't understand all this myself - I may never understand it completely.

Melanie (the reporter) covered my graduation from NHTI last May and contacted my through the NH Senate, where I was working as an intern. We met several times over the summer and I basically told her everything that I knew, which she then verified by contacting my doctors and my best friend. She call my at my university last week and we finished the story over a long telephone conversation.

I felt that I could trust Melanie to be sensitive about the way that my story was written, as I didn't want it to be sensationalized, and I didn't want anyone hurt by it. What happened to me is extremely complicated, which made Melanie's job really difficult. I think she did a great job. She wants to try kayaking, so we're planning to get together this summer - probably on Squam.

This was really hard for me to do, as I hate feeling like "exhibit A". But I'm hoping that what happened to me might somehow help others who are going through very difficult times in their own lives.

RE: fatlazyless: My best friend often tells me to "use the force" when I can't figure out how to do something. She says it's from some popular movie. "The Force" for me is my instincts - which seem to have worked extremely well in getting through the unknown here.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

This was really hard for me to do, as I hate feeling like "exhibit A". But I'm hoping that what happened to me might somehow help others who are going through very difficult times in their own lives.

.

Some times the hardest things to do are the ones that pay the most dividends. I hope that by telling your story, you find some more inner peace. I for one commend you for telling your story.

Not even in the same ballpark as far as severity, but I suffer from a life long anxiety issue, which I have always been able to hide. Very few people have ever known. However I find the older I get and the more people I tell the easier things get on me....the people that know, see the slight difference in my attitude, and are always helping me out.

I hope as life moves on for you, acceptance becomes more and more the norm for you.....

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by jrc

that's one hell of a story.

Yeah, it certainly is, and with a human interest story like this added into the speeds limits mix, the 14D-10R NH State Senate will probably be voting 20-4, instead of 16-8, or so. You can argue the 150' rule from now till doomsday, but this new angle makes it almost as good as a Hitchcock movie. Hey, those patriots may have lost by 17-14, but the speed limits will be winning by 20-4. How can it lose, now? Better be calling your bookie for a change-order, now.

We win, you lose, it's over, capiche! The good guys win!

[Cal]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

We win, you lose, it's over, capiche! The good guys win!

And if this is any preview of what will happen IF it passes , they will be as poor of winner as they were poor losers last time

[CanisLupusArctos]

I still think the increased boating problems (i.e. Capt. Bonehead) that we're seeing on this lake are just one manifestation of a society-wide problem made of materialism, greed, and loss of respect for others.

Going through elementary school in the 1980s (in the Boston area) I remember a lot of emphasis on respect for others. I had teachers as late as high school who drilled it into us that if you worked hard and achieved success but you weren't nice, you were still going to sit in detention with the usual punks.

Now I have various friends whose kids are going to elementary school and have neighbors whose kids are in high school, and they're being taught that 'getting ahead' is everything. Step on toes if you have to, anything to get ahead. What's out there is yours for the taking and if you work hard, you deserve it, so go get it.

Respect for others? That's a quaint idea we don't practice anymore, because it gets in the way. Respect has been replaced by this other thing called "tolerance" whose main focus is 'don't offend people who are different from you.' The respect that my class learned in the 80s was to be extended to all people, whether they were different or the same. We had minorities join our class over the years, and nobody thought anything of it because we were never taught about differences; we were just taught to respect others no matter what.

The real 'gotcha' in this? All this much change, in just 20 years. I didn't think I'd be talking like this ("When I was a boy...") until I had gray hair. But things are changing so fast. Even 5 years ago was noticeably different from today.

As it stands now, greed/arrogance and the "get ahead at all costs" mentality is becoming a disease. The song by Nickleback "We all just wanna be big rock stars..." (which we can hear on WLNH at least once a day) reflects this new culture we have.

And if we are all big rock stars (in our heads, if nowhere else), we can ignore other people as we drive around the lake in our rock-star boats, behaving like Britney, Lindsay, and Paris as we flip off all the "inferior" boaters around us. After all, we worked hard, so we deserve this vacation.

Now if only the politicians would catch on. Too bad they're busy catering to it instead. Listen to speeches made by either party, and there's a huge focus on "Ask what your country can do for you! If you elect me President, your country will do more for you!"

Therefore I feel this mentality, not lack of laws, is the real problem. Both parties are making it worse. Today's Republican Party too often approaches problems by saying "There is no problem" while the Democrats say "More laws can fix this problem."

Nobody looks at the fact that the condition of the human heart is what needs changing, and that can only happen if we start teaching "respect for others comes before material gain for yourself" once more. This, I believe, would solve our lake boating problems, and probably many more.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by CanisLupusArctos

I still think the increased boating problems (i.e. Capt. Bonehead) that we're seeing on this lake are just one manifestation of a society-wide problem made of materialism, greed, and loss of respect for others.

CLA you hit the nail on the head..... materialism, greed..... are the qualities that are going are causing a moral deteriation in this country..... the other thing that doesn't help is people no longer look at things as a privlege.....

[Airwaves]

Wolfman, while you are aboslutely correct nothing is going to change. Are you going to give up your gains in life? I'm not.

SPEED LIMITS ON WINNIPESAUKEE

This is not a Democrat vs Republican issue. As the late Tip O'Neil once accurately said, all politics is local...My voters say X then I vote X or have to explain myself...explanifications are difficult

This issue is about a group of folks, some property owners on Lake Winnipesaukee, that initially thought they saw a problem and tried to address it. Unfortunately for them the facts did not back up their efforts (In my opinion) but they are to the point where backing down is not an option.

When those folks started their campaign it encouraged "us" to look at what they were saying and defend our actions. Fortunately for "us" our actions do not rise to the level that "they" contend is a problem. (Again, in my opinion)

I suggest that both sides back off! The Pro and Con side take a break and NH Legislators stand down and wait. Why?

2008 is the first year that all boaters in NH are required to have passed a safe boating certificate course. That means, for the first time in the boating history of Lake Winnipesaukee and the State of NH, all boaters will have been certified.

Let's see what happens.

Airwaves, Out

[Dave R]

Not a Nickleback fan, (unless the offense is in shotgun with three+ wide, and down two touchdowns), but I think that Rocks Star song is supposed to be tongue in cheek.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by CanisLupusArctos

I still think the increased boating problems (i.e. Capt. Bonehead) that we're seeing on this lake are just one manifestation of a society-wide problem made of materialism, greed, and loss of respect for others.

You are so right!

The question is what do we do about Capt. Bonehead. It's almost impossible to change him. You can make him take a safe boating class but how much will sink in. Plus he can get a certificate on line by using an out of state address. He shouldn't be able to, but he can.

If we can't fix the Capt. is there any way we can make Winnipesaukee less attractive to him? Something that might make him and his kind not come here in the first place? . . . . Let's think.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

You are so right!

The question is what do we do about Capt. Bonehead. It's almost impossible to change him. You can make him take a safe boating class but how much will sink in. Plus he can get a certificate on line by using an out of state address. He shouldn't be able to, but he can.

If we can't fix the Capt. is there any way we can make Winnipesaukee less attractive to him? Something that might make him and his kind not come here in the first place? . . . . Let's think.

Ok, let's think,

Capt B ignores the rules,

Noise rules, he ignores those
Right of way rules, ignores those
no wake zones, ignores those
150 ft rule, ignores those
common sense, he doesn't have any

So how do we fix this?

The proposal in front of the senate is a speed limit. A speed limit that as pointed out by several vocal proponents is UNENFORCEABLE.

So, if the SL passes we can add it to the list:

Speed limit, unenforceable, Capt B. will ignore and laugh........

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by ITD

Ok, let's think,

Capt B ignores the rules,

Noise rules, he ignores those
Right of way rules, ignores those
no wake zones, ignores those
150 ft rule, ignores those
common sense, he doesn't have any

So how do we fix this?

The proposal in front of the senate is a speed limit. A speed limit that as pointed out by several vocal proponents is UNENFORCEABLE.

So, if the SL passes we can add it to the list:

Speed limit, unenforceable, Capt B. will ignore and laugh........

We need to find out how they DO enforce them on other lakes.


If the Capt. ignores a little he may get away with it. If he ignores it a lot, he will stand in front of a judge. Even Boneheads wake up and stop laughing then.

[JayDV]

It sounds like most of us are in agreement about a few basic things:

1) Many people in today's society display and/or practice a lack of respect for others, their rights, properties or rules and laws.

2) Some of those people share boating priveleges with people that go above and beyond safe boating practices and cause some of them to be afraid.

3) There are several documented instances where poor boating skills or flagrant disrespect of the laws caused serious property and bodily damage or worse, loss of life.

4) Many of the existing rules/laws are difficult to enforce due to manpower, cost, weather conditions or boating traffic.

5) If enforcement officers were visible, then boaters would more than likely obey the boating rules/laws as written in the boating handbook.

The above is basic and I tried to cover all aspects. Obviously I might have mis-stated some things.

This one I am throwing in: At what point is "speeding" speeding? Would jack rabbit acceleration to just above the limit then backing off speeding (like water skiing where you can travel more than headway speed within 150 ft of land)? Is speeding like the old turnpike ticket tolls where you get your card at time X and if you cross given exit by time X+"y" you were speeding? But if you travel 100 mph and stop for coffee before you get to the exit are you still speeding?

Given the above, I still think the time has arrived for technical solutions.

I was watching a Discovery Channel show on Sharks and how they tag them with transmitters to track the sharks' life of wanderings. The group also drops "receivers" around the area that record the shark's tag data everytime it comes within 1/4 mile of the "receiver". This information can be uploaded to a passing "data collector" station and stored for data queries later.
This scenario could be applied to lakes as well. The sharks could be all boats registered to be on NH waterways. In addition to the "receivers" dropped throughout the lake there could be receiver/transmitter sensors mounted atop buoys.

With this equipment in place the computers could work 24 hrs a day gathering data. The types of data could be modified later but could range from boat registration # (or not), boat activity (speed, proximity to other boats/land) to weather and water information. Then with all the information gathered, decisions could be made about deciding where problem areas may exist (excessive speeds for narrow waterways, close proximity to public swimming areas, scheduled sanctioned events, activities of existing businesses, camps, etc.). The above mentioned excessive speeds would be monitored by boats passing the buoys and the times recorded much the same as the highway patrol monitors speeders by timing the vehicles between markings on the highways.

When areas become identified, then rules could be placed on those areas. Maybe Bizer maps or color-coded buoys would be the way to get the info out to the boaters. With this kind of 24/7 monitoring going on, then everyone would know that their boating manners are being watched.

Once the equipment is in place, the uses could be expanded or reduced. After a reasonable data gathering period of time then it could be decided whether limits need to be in place and what they should be. The buoy-top sensors can scan passing craft to verify they have registered sensors or notify marine patrol of boater equipment malfunction for spot checks. These can be set up for yearly re-evaluation based on the running historical data. Severe problem areas would warrant patrol officers present. Otherwise, the marine patrol lake personnel could stay as it is.

The information would be collected by impartial outside agency who would be audited by a state committee. The NH Dept of Safety would control the data queries and make requests available to general public.

All of this may be a bit involved, but look at all the debate over statistic gathering or which group has more political clout, or even naming pulic personnel and questioning their integrities? We know computers can work 24/7. We know facts don't lie. We trust computers to do a lot more than I've listed here. And as far as the Bib Bro fear, we know the technical equipment the Gov't uses is far more advanced than what the general public is allowed to have, but imagine how much detail they access "currently" when we can only see Google Earth images from several months ago.

[Dave R]

I dunno JayDV, sounds like solution in search of a problem. This is Winnipesaukee, not some over-crowded, lawless lake. The boating in Winnipesaukee as actually quite pleasant and relaxing and people are generally well-behaved. With the slightly tightened requirements for getting a boating license and the general downturn in the boating industry, the lake will get generally less crowded and the boaters will be generally better behaved.

[fatlazyless]

More immediately, my sources tell me that WinnFabs was helpfull in getting Evenstar hired as a NH State Senate infilitrator.......oops.......make that....as a NH State Senate intern.....and that 19 senators all want those little 'kayak paddle' lapel buttons for their lapels,.

"Lose the need for speed, go eat some granola!."

[Skip]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

More immediately, my sources tell me that WinnFabs was helpfull in getting Evenstar hired as a NH State Senate infilitrator.......oops.......make that....as a NH State Senate intern.....and that 19 senators all want those little 'kayak paddle' lapel buttons for their lapels,.

"Lose the need for speed, go eat some granola!."

I am not sure how Evenstar's personal life is germane to these threads.

I think it would be appropriate for us to get back on topic and if Evenstar's life is pertinent for discussion it should be based on her decision and in an appropriate forum.

Otherwise we should recognize and respect her right to privacy.

[froggy]

CLA is exactly correct - the lack of respect is everywhere, not just in boating.
The roads, the ski slopes, and on and on.
I've been skiing since the 50's, but I don't enjoy it any longer with the lack of respect on the slopes; have not skied in three years cuz.....!

The highways are equally bad; in my driver ed, we were taught to travel right and pass on left! The reverse happens now. Signs are gone that used to depict the rules. In Europe you'd receive large fines for not traveling right. Even law enforcement vehicles disobey "rules of the road"!

Boaters: again, I grew up in a boating family and we respected others on the water. Some new boaters think "they own it all". The marinas "sell" the boats with no orientation to operation and/safety.

It all comes to the lack of respect & common sense.

PS: "Just ANOTHER ...... TAXPAYER that is NOT allowed to VOTE!"
This phrase is everywhere: not just NH; Vail, CO second home owner who resides in CA or TX. Cape Cod cottage owner, who resides in NYC! MD or NJ shore second home owner who resides in VA or Wash, DC. It's all over! Give me a break!

[Island Girl]

Passing on the right has been lawful for many years... as long as you are on a divided roadway.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Island Girl

Passing on the right has been lawful for many years... as long as you are on a divided roadway.

Is this true or only presumed to be true because it is so wide spread..... I know that when I got my License ummm around 1990 it was still illegal to pass on the right, according to the rule book....

That is not to say that the law hasn't changed.... but as I remember the saying is drive right pass left......

Also in just a few minutes of web searching I found a information on the subject. Most states require slower traffic to move to the right.... which implies passing on the right is not correct...... the problem is people get into the middle lane of a 3 lane divided highway, and don't move right when they aren't keeping up with traffic.....

[Island Girl]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Is this true or only presumed to be true because it is so wide spread..... I know that when I got my License ummm around 1990 it was still illegal to pass on the right, according to the rule book....

That is not to say that the law hasn't changed.... but as I remember the saying is drive right pass left......

Also in just a few minutes of web searching I found a information on the subject. Most states require slower traffic to move to the right.... which implies passing on the right is not correct...... the problem is people get into the middle lane of a 3 lane divided highway, and don't move right when they aren't keeping up with traffic.....

This was many many years ago ... now NH may well have delayed it's implementation. My memory if failing... sometimes Congress will make a law and the states can implement it or not... however failure to implement some of these will result is a loss of highway funds from the government. I do not remember is it is this one or the seat belt law which NH was the last hold out.

IG

[froggy]

Originally Posted by Island Girl

Passing on the right has been lawful for many years... as long as you are on a divided roadway.

SOME STATES IT'S NOT LAWFUL. Where's the logic to passing on the right, in a divided 2-lane in each direction road?

Sorry, my driver education was in MA (but lived in NH over 35 years), when I was taught not to pass on right. A year go, I was chatting with MA troopers on break at rest area on Rt 24, between 128 & 495: their mission that day was to ticket drivers hogging left lane, which they said was illegal!!!

[Skip]

Off topic, but to close this line out it is permissible to pass on the right in NH under the following conditions (and RSA)...

265:19 When Overtaking on the Right is Permitted. – The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass on the right of another vehicle only under the following conditions:
I. When the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn;
II. Upon a roadway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for 2 or more lines of vehicles moving lawfully in the direction being traveled by the overtaking vehicle;
III. The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle upon the right only under conditions permitting such movement in safety. Such movement shall not be made by driving off the roadway.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

If we can't fix the Capt. is there any way we can make Winnipesaukee less attractive to him? Something that might make him and his kind not come here in the first place? . . . . Let's think.

Well, speed limit supporters want us to think that the fast boats are keeping the family boaters away. Most Capt. Boneheads are at the helm of the typical family boat, so if you believe speed limit supporters, encouraging more fast boats would tend to reduce the Capt. Boneheads.

I'd be willing to bet that if indeed there are folks that are afraid of boating on Winnipesaukee, these frightened people ARE Capt. Boneheads.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

You are so right!

The question is what do we do about Capt. Bonehead. It's almost impossible to change him. You can make him take a safe boating class but how much will sink in. Plus he can get a certificate on line by using an out of state address. He shouldn't be able to, but he can.

If we can't fix the Capt. is there any way we can make Winnipesaukee less attractive to him? Something that might make him and his kind not come here in the first place? . . . . Let's think.

Bingo.His kind is a 16 bowrider that does not go 45 mph.AGAIN A SPEED LIMIT DOES NOTHING TO REMOVE CAPT BONEHEAD!!!!This is what we are trying to tell you speed limit proponents.

[fatlazyless]

Time will tell....it always does....a senate decision could be five weeks away. In 2006, HB162 passed the house on Feb 2, and died in the senate on March 16. Say, March 16, that's the day before Saint Patty's Day, so the winners can go celebrate, and the losers can go drown their sorrow.

Anythings possibe; the senate could amend it to cover the entire state and not just Winnipesaukee, or could make it effective on April 1........april fools day.......hmmm!.......april fools....aha...!

My money says it gets passed by 16-8, as the senate has 14 D's & 10 R''s, which would reflect the 236-111 house vote. When HB162 died in the senate, there were xx R's & xx D's, (forgot that item).

...and then, it's on to the governor's desk....and what he may do is very much an unknown....

[fatlazyless]

Last year when I stopped into the Glendale Marine Patrol headquarters to register a boat, I took a couple minutes to look at the job opportunities for seasonal MP officers.

Before an individual is accepted into the preliminary training program they have to qualify themselves by passing a physical fitness test and psychological oriented interview. The brochure described the physical fitness tests and there was no question in my mind that it was a difficult test. It included having to run so far in a set time limit, pushups, situps, bench presses, all prorated according to one's age.

Performance motorboating, as opposed to paddling a kayak, does not promote physical fitness. Many a performance boater would easily have a very difficult, if not impossible, time passing the MP's fitness test that prequalifies him/her for their training program.

After all, moving that gasoline throttle is hardly an aerobic workout. Neither is lifting a can of beer that's disquised as a can of soda!

[luckypete]

Greetings to one and all,

We spend our summers on the big lake in a no wake zone. Apparently, the aforementioned capt has an entire flotilla of watercraft.

I've witnessed the capt. piloting his kayak successfully into the path of an oncoming boat, causing the other boat to test his emergency stop/reverse skills.

The capt. also likes fishing. His 17 ft bass boat with a 200 hp is a joy to behold. One time i watched him scream at another boater who came to close to the captains fishing line, even though the capt was trolling through a very narrow channel.

The captain also owns and operates a beautiful vintage wooden powerboat, complete with mahogany, brass and vintage flags. However, apparently boats of this era are not equipped with either speedometers or the ability to turn one's head and observe the rather impressive wake being generated.

The Captain is, of course, a family man. Spending time on the water in his bowrider while pulling all the baby captains around on their obrien ski tubes is the captains idea of quality family time. The good times do suffer a bit when the captain realizes that his progeny are in serious trouble of not carrying on the family name because he has not noticed that the tots have fallen off the tube and are floating in the aforementioned narrow channel during the July 4th weekend.

The Captain is also a big time sailor. I've seen the captain navigate the channel under full sail, not lowering the mainsail a bit or even lowering his standards and using the engine. No sir, the captain just screamed at every other boater about his right of way, "i'm a boat under sail, therefore I have the right of way". You gotta love the captain's intricate understanding of navigational law, don't you?

Finally, and most importantly, the captain is a loving husband. One way the captain displays his love is to operate his 24' center console at 15 to 20 mph through the no wake zone. When I displayed the universal sign for "what the heck are you doing" (arms outstretched, palms facing upward, shoulders shrugging) the captain's wife responded, "I'm sick to my stomach". Perhaps the captains piloting skills are not really what they should be after all.

Maybe next year he'll buy another boat!

[froggy]

Originally Posted by luckypete

Greetings to one and all,

We spend our summers on the big lake in a no wake zone. Apparently, the aforementioned capt has an entire flotilla of watercraft.

I've witnessed the capt. piloting his kayak successfully into the path of an oncoming boat, causing the other boat to test his emergency stop/reverse skills.

The capt. also likes fishing. His 17 ft bass boat with a 200 hp is a joy to behold. One time i watched him scream at another boater who came to close to the captains fishing line, even though the capt was trolling through a very narrow channel.

The captain also owns and operates a beautiful vintage wooden powerboat, complete with mahogany, brass and vintage flags. However, apparently boats of this era are not equipped with either speedometers or the ability to turn one's head and observe the rather impressive wake being generated.

The Captain is, of course, a family man. Spending time on the water in his bowrider while pulling all the baby captains around on their obrien ski tubes is the captains idea of quality family time. The good times do suffer a bit when the captain realizes that his progeny are in serious trouble of not carrying on the family name because he has not noticed that the tots have fallen off the tube and are floating in the aforementioned narrow channel during the July 4th weekend.

The Captain is also a big time sailor. I've seen the captain navigate the channel under full sail, not lowering the mainsail a bit or even lowering his standards and using the engine. No sir, the captain just screamed at every other boater about his right of way, "i'm a boat under sail, therefore I have the right of way". You gotta love the captain's intricate understanding of navigational law, don't you?

Finally, and most importantly, the captain is a loving husband. One way the captain displays his love is to operate his 24' center console at 15 to 20 mph through the no wake zone. When I displayed the universal sign for "what the heck are you doing" (arms outstretched, palms facing upward, shoulders shrugging) the captain's wife responded, "I'm sick to my stomach". Perhaps the captains piloting skills are not really what they should be after all.

Maybe next year he'll buy another boat!

NOW, that's a good definition of person with respect for others - the very reason I retired from boating on the Lake on busy times like weekends!
I will remember sailing my own 24' sailboat alone around from Meredith Bay to Shep Brown's in November for winter storage - very peaceful since the Lake was without so many boaters!!! Not at all like an August weekend day.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by luckypete

Greetings to one and all,

We spend our summers on the big lake in a no wake zone. Apparently, the aforementioned capt has an entire flotilla of watercraft.

I've witnessed the capt. piloting his kayak successfully into the path of an oncoming boat, causing the other boat to test his emergency stop/reverse skills.

The capt. also likes fishing. His 17 ft bass boat with a 200 hp is a joy to behold. One time i watched him scream at another boater who came to close to the captains fishing line, even though the capt was trolling through a very narrow channel.

The captain also owns and operates a beautiful vintage wooden powerboat, complete with mahogany, brass and vintage flags. However, apparently boats of this era are not equipped with either speedometers or the ability to turn one's head and observe the rather impressive wake being generated.

The Captain is, of course, a family man. Spending time on the water in his bowrider while pulling all the baby captains around on their obrien ski tubes is the captains idea of quality family time. The good times do suffer a bit when the captain realizes that his progeny are in serious trouble of not carrying on the family name because he has not noticed that the tots have fallen off the tube and are floating in the aforementioned narrow channel during the July 4th weekend.

The Captain is also a big time sailor. I've seen the captain navigate the channel under full sail, not lowering the mainsail a bit or even lowering his standards and using the engine. No sir, the captain just screamed at every other boater about his right of way, "i'm a boat under sail, therefore I have the right of way". You gotta love the captain's intricate understanding of navigational law, don't you?

Finally, and most importantly, the captain is a loving husband. One way the captain displays his love is to operate his 24' center console at 15 to 20 mph through the no wake zone. When I displayed the universal sign for "what the heck are you doing" (arms outstretched, palms facing upward, shoulders shrugging) the captain's wife responded, "I'm sick to my stomach". Perhaps the captains piloting skills are not really what they should be after all.

Maybe next year he'll buy another boat!

Regardless of your position this is one of the best posts I've ever seen.

Did you know that "the captain" also owns a vintage mahogany tour boat that operates out of Wolfeboro? Apparently "the captain" wants to give people a vintage tour and revert back to the days where the 150foot law was not yet in the books. He does a great job of that.

[fatlazyless]

The point I want to make is that it is difficult to become a seasonal Marine Patrol officer. They have to pass a difficult physical fitness test at the start before proceeding with the training program. The test gets prorated according to one's age, and I know for a fact that 96.5% of the performance boaters on Lake Winnipesaukee would FLUNK the test. And yes. the kayakers would have a PASSING rate of 89.5%.

So go place that factoid in your carburetor and compress it!

[Cal]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

The point I want to make is that it is difficult to become a seasonal Marine Patrol officer. They have to pass a difficult physical fitness test at the start before proceeding with the training program. The test gets prorated according to one's age, and I know for a fact that 96.5% of the performance boaters on Lake Winnipesaukee would FLUNK the test. And yes. the kayakers would have a PASSING rate of 89.5%.

So go place that factoid in your carburetor and compress it!

So your point is Kayakers have more muscles than brains , and performance boats have more brains than muscles

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Regardless of your position this is one of the best posts I've ever seen.

Did you know that "the captain" also owns a vintage mahogany tour boat that operates out of Wolfeboro? Apparently "the captain" wants to give people a vintage tour and revert back to the days where the 150foot law was not yet in the books. He does a great job of that.

That's odd...

Look who is near the end of the list of proponents...

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

First, I never made that claim. But more importantly, why don't YOU prove that performance boats pollute less.

The proof that tourism is being effected is in the below list of speed limit supporters. You will note many are tourist related. There are even several marinas in there. Including marinas that sell large fast boats.

The Common Man
Ashalnd Insurance
Strictly Rentals
Wild Meadow Canoes and Kayaks
Centre Harbor Cellars
Center Harbor Inn
AMC (Appalachian Mountain Club)
NH Audubon
New Hampshire Lakes Association (NHLA)
Decker Machinery Company
The Architectural Studio
Fay’s Boat Yard
Birch Island Camp Association
Gilford Islands Association (GIA)
Jolly Island Association
Lockes Island Association
Belknap Landscaping Company
Design Quest
DK Net Design
E&S Insurance LLC
The Hair Factory
Mike’s Ala Carte Catering
Pepi Herrmann Crystal, Inc.
Glendale Marine
River Edge Marina
Squam Lakes Association (SLA)
Cottage Place on Squam Lake
Squam Lake Inn
Me Designs
Barrons Billiards
Blooms Vanity
J&J Printing
LaBelles Shoe Store
Central & Northern Title
Haughey, Philpot & Laurent
Lakeside Hotel Assoc.
Sundial Shops
Paugus Bay Marina
Best Western Silver Fox Inn
Griffin Bodi Krause
Municipal Resources, Inc.
Great Northern Trading Co
Meredith Marina
Y-Landing
Bear Island Conservation Association (BICA)
East Bear Island Conservation Association
AMC- 3 Mile Island
Winnipesaukee Rowing Club
Alexandria Lamp Shop
Case N’ Keg
Chris Dupont Painting
Christopher P. Williams, Architects
Eisenberg Chiropractic
Hawkins Photography
Hobo Railroad
Landscapes By Tom
League of NH Craftsmen
Mastiff Builders
Omni Signs
Patricia’s “Specially for You”
Pemi Glass Company
Pretty Petunias Garden Center
Remax Bay Side Real Estate
Remcon/North
Sagecliff Software, Inc.
The Village Perk
Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad
GASCO Realty, LLC
51 Main Street, LLc
Inns & Spa at Mill Falls
Meredith Bay Painting
The Lake House Grille
Lago
Camp
Town Docks Restaurant
Mame's
The Gallery at Mill Falls
Oglethorp
Guiseppies Resturant
Northern Air Trading
Lady of the Lake Clothing
Adorments
Creative Clothing
Christopher P. Williams, Architect
Oak Street Associates
Old Mill Insurance
Innisfree Bookstore
Phoenix Leasing, Inc.
Silver Top Ventures
Minuteman Plumbing & Heating
Sava Designs
Horn Insurance
Harts Restaurant
Fermentation Station LLC
Hunter's
Waukewan Antiques
Village Greenery
Etcetera Shop
Associated Surveyors
Moulton Farm
Barber Pole Association
Trexler’s Marina
Land’s End
Wyman Trail Association
Loon Preservation Committee
1st T Development Corporation
The Woodshed Restaurant
Castle in the Clouds
Amoskeg Insurance
EPTAM Plastics
The Common Man Inn
Corner House Inn
Seacoast Kayak
Tilton Veterinary Hospital
Waterville Valley Condo Rental
Thurston’s Marina
Lighthouse Inn
Weirs Beach Motel and Cottages
Van's Hotel Enterprises
Wolfboro Inn
Island Real Estate of New Hampshire
LB Boat Restoration
Millie B
Wolfeboro Trolley Company
Wolfetrap Restaurant

[hazelnut]

GWC,

Seriously last summer I had more than just one run in with this guy. One time coming out of Wolfeboro bay he passed me at about 30MPH he was about 25-35 feet off my Port side. I gave the universal hands in the air shrug gesture for W.T.F. He replied with the universal shrug sign for huh? Ironic that he supports a speed limit when he doesn't even know how to drive a boat in the first place.

[Bear Islander]

The "universal shrug" sign is open to interpretation.

I prefer the "finger twirl around ear" gambit. This can be emphasized by converting it to a "point at offender" maneuver.





Anybody know the sign for "find a rule book and read it" I really need that one!

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The "universal shrug" sign is open to interpretation.
I prefer the "finger twirl around ear" gambit. This can be emphasized by converting it to a "point at offender" maneuver.
Anybody know the sign for "find a rule book and read it" I really need that one!

On this we agree BI.LOL

[COWISLAND NH]

I'm so glad we have the opportunity to be at the lake when all the bone head captains go home (April, May, Sept & Oct).....MP doesn't even look twice at us go fast boats when were out having fast safe fun. Livin on an island isn't for everyone, but it beats boating near the bone head capts. when their driving to close and scared out of their minds....pass the law....we'll be out before MP even see us >>PASS YA LATER (150 feet that is)!!!!!!

[fatlazyless]

Reading Senator Kenney's id in the senate website, he's a Republican and a Marine Corps officer, having joined the Marines in 1980.

It just shows to go that not all the R's are in lock-step against HB847 and some have the smarts to consider HB847 on its' merits.

Hey there way up north, Berlin's Senator Gallus.....'"Ten-Hut...maybe you want to reconsider and take a look at Sen Kenney's position, and sorry to hear about the Gorham paper mill's big layoff's."

[ITD]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Hey there way up north, Berlin's Senator Gallus.....'"Ten-Hut...maybe you want to reconsider and take a look at Sen Kenney's position, and sorry to hear about the Gorham paper mill's big layoff's."

OFF TOPIC !!!!!!!!!!!!

Since we like to delve into obtuse reasoning and diversion, I find it interesting that the owners of the Gorham paper mill decided to close the mill right after the Democrats take power in the NH government. They must know something that we don't. Something like increased taxes, regulation and entitlements that are bound to come with a liberal agenda. Sounds like they decided to "git while the gitting was good".

[fatlazyless]

From the Marine Patrol website, here's the fitness requirements for a male, aged 50-59, to get accepted into their training program for the seasonal Marine Patrol officer.

1 1/2 mile indoor run: 15:53 minutes

benchpress: .70 x your body weight

situps : 22

pushups : 11


...not so easy!

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

From the Marine Patrol website, here's the fitness requirements for a male, aged 50-59, to get accepted into their training program for the seasonal Marine Patrol officer.

1 1/2 mile indoor run: 15:53 minutes; benchpress: .70 x your body weight;
situps : 22; pushups : 11; ...not so easy!

The fitness requirements for being on my sailing team is way more difficult than this. Plus we have to also pass a swimming test. I have to run 3 miles in under 30 minutes. Now I'm trying to do 5K in under 30 minutes (not quite there yet, but getting closer).

. . . and I'm going to be looking for summer employment . . .

Originally Posted by Cal

So your point is Kayakers have more muscles than brains , and performance boats have more brains than muscles.

Cal, I graduated in the top in my class, so apparantly kayakers can have both brains and muscles.

[hazelnut]

This has seriously gone way way off topic.

FLL, good, GREAT even, our MP officers can run and lift weights. Good for them.

Evenstar, you are smart AND super strong WOW! That is great.

What in the H. E. double hockey sticks does this have to do with opinions on the Speed Limit?

I've met many fat smart people and buff idiots in my life. Some are fortunate to have been blessed with both. I am so glad we cleared all this up.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Cal, I graduated in the top in my class, so apparantly kayakers can have both brains and muscles.

Somehow that doesn't surprize me one bit

[fatlazyless]

Why did I bring up the fitness requirements for the 50-59 yr old seasonal MP officer to gain entry into the training program? Because further back in this thread there's a post that denigrates the seasonal MP officer and suggests replacing them with state troopers in green & bronze boats. Plus, the seasonal MP officers has been belittled with various perjorative nick names in other posts, off & on, for years.

My point being that the reality is the great majority of the go-fast, performance boaters could not meet the fitness requirements for starting the MP training program. It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black, or something!

Will try again to get the numbers for 20-29, 30-39, 40-49, age groups, and post them here.

It does not speak too well for the performance boaters that most of you are so out of shape and overweight that you cannot walk the one quarter mile, up the medium hill from the Center Harbor docks to Canoe Restaurant, and need to take the Canoe Cadillac shuttle.

Huffing & puffing, just to get up that little hill, shame-shame-shame; it all comes from the 'need for speed' and being 'addicted to more horsepower'.

[SteveA]

FLL.... you are priceless

Looks like you survived the snow shoveling.... (that's a good thing)

[Cal]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

My point being that the reality is the great majority of the go-fast, performance boaters could not meet the fitness requirements for starting the MP training program. It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black, or something!
It does not speak too well for the performance boaters that most of you are so out of shape and overweight that you cannot walk the one quarter mile, up the medium hill from the Center Harbor docks to Canoe Restaurant, and need to take the Canoe Cadillac shuttle.

Huffing & puffing, just to get up that little hill, shame-shame-shame; it all comes from the 'need for speed' and being 'addicted to more horsepower'.

And just where did you get you facts and figures about over weight performance boats? Perhaps just a personal observance or personal opinion of what you want to see. I could start on the personal attack senerio but I'm not that petty or shallow but I will say , us fat cats don't shop at Wallmart

[SIKSUKR]

Cal,I think that's FLL being FLL.A little tongue in cheek while stirring the pot.

[hazelnut]

FLL has cabin fever, or shovelitis, or he's snowblind or somethin' of that nature.

[offmycloud]

FLL - I only use one nick name for the seasonal MP's - "puddle pigs" - what are the others I can use?
Thanks

[Skip]

Originally Posted by offmycloud

FLL - I only use one nick name for the seasonal MP's - "puddle pigs" - what are the others I can use?
Thanks

C'mon folks, are we really going to start stooping to this?

[WeirsBeachBoater]

Skip, I am afraid this topic, and the forum in general is suffering. I wish Don would just close the speed limit forum altogether. It is doing nothing to help the situation, and frankly I wonder how first time visitors to the site feel when they read all this BS. I treasure this lake like many people on this forum, and I say for the greater good we should petitiion Don to take this forum down! It has done nothing more than create great animosity, and let a few rogues tarnish the reputation of the forum, the lake and the community!

[hazelnut]

offmycloud, I think that was over the line a tad.

WeirsBeachBoater, I'm pretty sure every forum on every subject from Trekkies to Tech Talk has its share of trolls and trouble makers. I think most readers of any forum can muddle through the junk and pull out the gems.

This issue touches a nerve and arises a passion in many, guilty as charged. However, to shut down a thread as you suggest seems a bit extreme. The whole reason chat forums exist is for people to express information and opinion. I agree things can tend to get out of hand but I think Don does a good job cleaning up the mess. Hey Don, ya missed a spot (see offmycloud's post) As you said a few rogues are trying to tarnish the reputation of the site. I think the good apples far outweigh the bad apples on this forum. Though I think there should be limits I believe it is healthy for people to be able to use a forum such as this to vent or share opinions on hot button issues. It would be a pretty boring forum without a few fireworks now and then.

[Bear Islander]

Actually I think this forum has been tame recently. The worst thing I have been called is a child. Speed limit arguments were much more personal in the past. At least that is my recollection.

Plus this is offmycloud's first post in the speed limit forum.

[froggy]

How is this relevant to the editorial on speed limits?