Wolfeboro Docks Question

AC2717 · 06-28-2007, 09:08 AM

Hi all forum learkers

,

Heading over to Wolfeboro on Saturday with some guests for their first time, wanted to know if anyone ever cleared the air on the restrictions on the docks I have not been over there this year yet myself.
Thank you

secondcurve · 06-29-2007, 06:37 AM

There was a picture in the Grunter with a guy standing in front of two restricted (handicapped) docking spots. The sad thing about this is that there will be one boat there a week, if that. Otherwise they will sit empty. Given the heavy requirements on that docking facilty, it is too bad this got through. Couldn't we have lived with one spot? If one is handicapped and spent the entire day on the lake, would it hurt for them to spend another 10 minutes waiting for a spot? And aren't all the spots relatively equal in that the handicapped person will have to get into a wheel chair when exiting a boat anyway so does it really matter where the spots are located on the dock? After given this some thought, I have come out against this change. I understand the concept and intent and I'm all for helping out handicapped people; if I saw someone having trouble I'd be the first one to help or offer my spot. I just don't think Wolfeboro should have tied up this many resources for the very occasional need.

Dave R · 06-29-2007, 08:25 AM

I gotta agree with secondcurve. The idea may have been good but the exectution is awful. Handicapped spots should be closest to the parking lot. It looks like the town reserved spots that are convenient to boating but terribly inconvenient to anyone that struggle with walking. I suspect that if walking was difficult, one would not mind a tight squeeze going into an "inside" spot to get that much closer to land.

kjbathe · 06-29-2007, 08:46 AM

What are the requirements to use the handicapped spots? Do you need a placard, a dock-specific permit, or just some visible impairment to be eligible?

camp guy · 06-29-2007, 09:22 AM

The gentleman standing by the sign in the paper in this week's issue of the Granite State News has been on a campaign to get handicapped spaces all over Town. Fine, maybe, if there was a need, but when you sit and watch the general population you just do not see all that many (if any) truly handicapped people. And with respect to boating, this is an excess interpretation of the law. This particular gentleman is correct in his knowledge of the ADA, and he is connected to the upper level ADA people, but his efforts at implementation are excessive.

jrc · 06-29-2007, 11:41 AM

The spaces do seem to be picked for ease of docking. That was one of my favorite spots.

The number of spots is always a question, many stores seem to have way more spots than they need. But it's probably better than not enough.

Don't you wish we lived in a society that didn't need these spots? People with extra needs would just be waved to the front of the line.

secondcurve · 06-30-2007, 08:04 PM

I went by the Wolfeboro town docks today and of course the two handicapped spots were open and space was very tight with boats waiting to dock. Why couldn't the state have issued special flags to handicapped boaters (I'm assuming there are more than one on the lake, but I'm not all that sure) that could be used to move them to the front of the line for docking? Too simple a solution, I guess!

wires1999 · 06-30-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondcurve

I went by the Wolfeboro town docks today and of course the two handicapped spots were open and space was very tight with boats waiting to dock. Why couldn't the state have issued special flags to handicapped boaters (I'm assuming there are more than one on the lake, but I'm not all that sure) that could be used to move them to the front of the line for docking? Too simple a solution, I guess!

I thought the last time this subject came up it was not enforced by police or MP thus no ticket such as with legit HC parking spots. This man who "oversees" this is purely just an overzealous advocate for ADA and has no business harassing people. Is this still true?

Seaplane Pilot · 07-02-2007, 10:06 AM

On this subject of handicap parking: I have no problem with specific parking spots on city streets being designated as handicap parking spots. What kills me is in Manchester for example, all the parking spaces downtown have parking meters, except for the handicap parking spaces. Why should the people using these spaces get free parking? Never understood this.

AC2717 · 07-02-2007, 10:31 AM

I agree seaplane, just because handicapped does not mean they should not pay, they already have preferred parking, My father was impaired for very long time and had a placard for the car window. He never drove because he could not but was allowed a placard, which is in a lot of cases. It was great to always have a parking spot up close for him when needed or when he was in the car, but never understood why you did not have to pay meter, in MA if you have a placard you can park in any metered spot and not pay the meter.

I am all for a handicap spot on the docks, but that does not mean I want them to move to the front of the line to get to the dock before anyone else. If they are on the lake they should wait like everyone else. It is a lot different than the streets. If the spot is open for them then yes go in front of me and take the handicapped spot, if it is not though have to wait in line for another on or until that spot is available, which ever you prefer.

MeEscape · 07-02-2007, 08:18 PM

Good thought, but very poor execution and life is all about execution, however.

I actually invited 'this guy" onboard a few weeks ago and had a lengthy discussion regarding his objectives and offered him many suggestions on how to better approach his efforts. He was very appreciative and thanked me for my suggestions and left. As he was leaving (after about 30 minutes of discussions) he told me he had my bow numbers and was turning them into the NHMP. Nice guy I thought!!

secondcurve · 07-03-2007, 06:40 AM

Somehow it doesn't surprise me that this guy would do this. The world has gone crazy with political correctness!

Dave R · 07-03-2007, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeEscape

Good thought, but very poor execution and life is all about execution, however.

I actually invited 'this guy" onboard a few weeks ago and had a lengthy discussion regarding his objectives and offered him many suggestions on how to better approach his efforts. He was very appreciative and thanked me for my suggestions and left. As he was leaving (after about 30 minutes of discussions) he told me he had my bow numbers and was turning them into the NHMP. Nice guy I thought!!

Seriously? This is the guy who is responsible for the signs? Sounds like a Sienfeld character.

Kamper · 07-03-2007, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

On this subject of handicap parking: ... all the parking spaces downtown have parking meters, except for the handicap parking spaces. Why should the people using these spaces get free parking? Never understood this.

I believe the rational is that a mobility impaired person may have trouble getting back and forth to feed the meter. I dont disagre with you but it's such a small thing I'm not going to worry about it.

Rattlesnake Guy · 07-06-2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamper

I believe the rational is that a mobility impaired person may have trouble getting back and forth to feed the meter.

Kamper, that is the first logical reason I have ever heard. It is nice to have one of life's mysteries checked off the list.

I was at the Weirs yesterday and right at the train station cross walk I observed a handicap parking spot with no meter. It had a 15 minute time limit. I could not help but think that it was strange to offer free parking to someone who needs a little help but then give them a deadline to move the car or else.

RLW · 07-06-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Kamper, that is the first logical reason I have ever heard. It is nice to have one of life's mysteries checked off the list.
I was at the Weirs yesterday and right at the train station cross walk I observed a handicap parking spot with no meter. It had a 15 minute time limit.

To my knowledge there is NO time limit on handicap parking, meter or no meter. It may list it, but I believe it is either a mistake or they would have a very hard time to collect any and all fines.

Islander · 07-07-2007, 06:08 PM

Going back to feed a parking meter is illegal. When a meter has a two hour limit, that means you must leave within two hours. Putting more money in may prevent a ticket, but you are breaking the law. Also any time on the meter when you park is not yours. If you are parking for an hour you must put in an hours fee not matter how much is on the meter.

Last time I went to Wolfeboro I parked in the handicapped spaces. I was looking for someone to say something but nobody did.

RLW · 07-07-2007, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Islander

Last time I went to Wolfeboro I parked in the handicapped spaces. I was looking for someone to say something but nobody did.

It's people like you that know better but do it anyway that really deserve the tickets and one heck of a fine. If I had been around you would have gotten it.

wildwoodfam · 07-07-2007, 10:02 PM

I really do not get the concept of handicapped boat docks. I get that handicapped folks need that advantage in a parking lot - or on the street. To be closer to the shops, condos, restaurants, etc... that all makes sense.

BUT what I do not understand is the true purpose of a handicap boat dock? Its not set up for an advantage on proximity - it seems to me to be set up for advantage on not having to queue up for a spot? Why does the handicapped boater get to "pass go and collect 200" while the rest of us sit and wait our turns for a dock space? There seems not to be equity in that situation in Wolfeboro.

Where did handicapped boaters dock in Wolfeboro before the spaces were reserved this season?

I just do not get it?

jrc · 07-07-2007, 11:52 PM

These spots are clearly not intended to be the shortest walk. So they may be chosen as the easiest to dock at. Or they are just reserved so handicapped boaters don't have to wait. It seems like a reasonable kindness for people needing extra help. But, it should be a law or not at all. You can't have a zealot making up their own rules, it's no way to run a town.

Things like this start out well but can snowball. A family member lives in senior housing, where almost all the parking spots are labeled handicapped. There have been fist fights over who was handicapped enough to get close spots.

Get used to this type of thing, the baby boomers are getting older. The "Me" generation all think they are entitled to special treatment, and they'll sue to get it. Once everyone gets handicapped plates, then what do you do? Have different levels of handicapped?

Islander · 07-08-2007, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLW

It's people like you that know better but do it anyway that really deserve the tickets and one heck of a fine. If I had been around you would have gotten it.

"Civil disobedience" is a time honored method of protesting laws that are wrong. I'm not Rosa Parks, but the principal is the same. Ms Parks certainly "knew better".

However my actions were not even civil disobedience since I didn't violate anything and could not have been ticketed or fined even if you were there!

The best way to protest what is happening is to go to Wolfeboro and park in the spaces. It does a lot more than posting here.

secondcurve · 07-08-2007, 11:21 AM

Before the issue of reserving handicapped boat spaces got underway, I think the state should have had a box on its registration renewal form asking if the the registrant was handicapped. If enough folks checked the box, then the need could have been estimated. If it was great (which I still doubt for obvious reasons) then the following year the state could have required a doctors note with the renewal application to determine who was handicapped.
These folks could then be issued special handicapped plates or bow numbers.

Even in my system there would be no need for handicapped docking spots since the special bow number would move the boater to the front of the docking line for the next acceptable available spot.

RLW maybe you should try to pursue the implemenation of this system rather than hanging around the town docks looking for trouble. My guess is that most, if not all forum members, would embrace such a system as it would not waste limited docking resources while meeting the needs of those few who truly need some help.

SIKSUKR · 07-09-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLW

To my knowledge there is NO time limit on handicap parking, meter or no meter. It may list it, but I believe it is either a mistake or they would have a very hard time to collect any and all fines.

The meters in Manchester say handicap parking is free - limit 4 hours.

Taz · 07-16-2007, 09:53 PM

I talked to the official walking the docks in Wolfboro regarding the handicap docking. I believe he also keeps track of autos in the parking lot at the town docks(he has the tool marking the tires to keep track of how long they are parked there) There is no statute to cover handicap docking. If you dock there you can not be given a ticket. It is only a suggestion. There is nothing at that dock that makes it any easier than any other dock at the Wolfboro town docks for an individual who is physically impaired to disembark from their boat. If I am in Wolfboro and there is no other space to dock, I will dock at the area with painted blue posts if no one else wants to dock there and I am next in line.

If someone is boating and they are physically impaired then they were somehow able to enter the boat where they started from and they can disembark in Wolfboro at the town dock the same way. They should wait like everyone else.

The official I talked to was very angry that this dock was designated for handicap docking. He told me that over the winter without telling him the entire dock was taken for handicap docking. He protested to the authorities citing there is no statute to allow this and they relented agreed to what it is now presently. He all but outright told me to dock there if I wished.

I suggest every one else do the same. What fair is fair and this is not. This is nothing more than allowing someone to cut line.

oliviernh · 07-17-2007, 08:06 AM

Taz, unfortunately whoever gave you that information is incorrect. Anyone who has noticed the blue posts go halfway down on the outermost dock. Also the blue handicapped signs coincide with the blue posts. Two weekends ago I docked in the spot closest to shore on the outermost dock. this was after the blue posts and there were no handicapped signs going up that far on the dock. We ran to the hardware store and rite-aid and when we came back I had a nice bright orange ticket on my windshield for $250 for parking in a handicapped spot. The ticket also said if I had a handicapped tag it had to be displayed. Every boat on the outside dock had a ticket on their windshield.

We were a little upset!! We pulled out and started to leave when we saw the marine patrol guy walking the docks. I turned the boat around and went back to my same parking spot (as no one had taken it yet). We proceeded to call the officer over and point out to him the blue posts only go 1/2 way down and we were clearly way past them. He said "well there is a sign right here" (at the end of the dock), however it is facing inland and you can't see it when pulling up in the boat. He explained that the whole outside of the dock was for handicapped parking and it was a serious offense and hence the ticket for $250, but he understood our argument and kindly decided to give us a warning and ripped up the ticket! But said next time we must diplay our handicapped tag if we had one. I told him I never heard of anyone getting one with thier boat. He didn't really have an answer for that.

At anyrate they can and will ticket you. I have a ticket to prove it, however it is now ripped in half and "warning" is written over it in black marker.

kjbathe · 07-17-2007, 08:37 AM

This is really a mess, isn't it? Following up on my earlier post when we "legitimately" used the spaces, I also thought we should be hanging the handicapped placard. But then I realized it was going to be hard to hang the placard on the boat at the same time it was hanging in the car.

Perhaps we all need handicapped license plates instead of the placard, and then we can place one of the plates on the windshield of the boat???

And the whole side of the dock is restricted even though the few spots are clearly marked with blue and individual signs that DO face the water? With that logic one could argue that the whole row of parking spaces at Wal-Mart is for handicapped use even though only some of spaces are blue and the remainder are white because there's a sign at the end of the row??? Did they run out of blue paint in Wolfeboro and we're just supposed to know the intent was to keep painting the whole side?

It's clear to me that few, if any, know what the rules are for the use of these spots or how their mis/use should be enforced. I'm still seeing the only benefit as time savings for handicapped boaters. And to AC2717's point above, I don't think the time of disabled individuals is any more valuable than the rest of ours. Unless/until a coherent and enforceable policy can be developed and communicated, the spaces should be opened up for everyone to use.

jrc · 07-17-2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliviernh

.... I have a ticket to prove it, however it is now ripped in half and "warning" is written over it in black marker.

What law does the ticket say you violated?

MJM · 07-18-2007, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliviernh

.....We proceeded to call the officer over and point out to him the blue posts only go 1/2 way down and we were clearly way past them. .... He explained that the whole outside of the dock was for handicapped parking....

Whomever this was (and if you discover it was Mr Hanson, he should be charged with impersonating a law enforcement officer) was wrong.

This is a portion of an email I received from the Wboro Town Manager when I inquired about this topic weeks ago. (I was pleased with his prompt, courteous, and informative reply.)

============================
.....As you may know, a formal complaint against the Town of Wolfeboro has been filed at the U.S. Dept. of Justice about the Town's lack of compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act. (ADA). One of the compliance measures involves designating two boat slips at the Town docks as reserved for handicapped, just like there are spaces reserved in parking lots for handicapped drivers. The rest of the dock remains open for use by the public.
============================

I think I'll print a copy of his email and keep it in the boat....

SIKSUKR · 07-05-2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

On this subject of handicap parking: I have no problem with specific parking spots on city streets being designated as handicap parking spots. What kills me is in Manchester for example, all the parking spaces downtown have parking meters, except for the handicap parking spaces. Why should the people using these spaces get free parking? Never understood this.

Actually SP,you can park at any meter in Manchester for free if you have a HC plate or placard.It says it right on the meter.

RLW · 07-05-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Actually SP, you can park at any meter in Manchester for free if you have a HC plate or placard. It says it right on the meter.

You are so right SIKSUKR, that is the case all over the US. And we have many other privileges also, but I won't go into them as then another BIG debate will start. I for one that only has one leg is very happy for them all.

SIKSUKR · 07-05-2007, 02:12 PM

I didn't know if that was just a local or national deal.

wires1999 · 07-08-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLW

You are so right SIKSUKR, that is the case all over the US. And we have many other privileges also, but I won't go into them as then another BIG debate will start. I for one that only has one leg is very happy for them all.

Let me start by saying I sympathize with your handicap, But, and this is a huge but, if there isn't actually a RSA: addressing these new handicap spots down there @ these docks, where do you or anyone else have the right to tell someone you can or cannot dock there. You can't just come up with an idea, and this one is just not needed, and shove it down our throats. I can tell you this I won't have any of your comments or looks when I do dock my boat at these docks I can tell you that. ps, careful who you challenge the next time at these dock, you never know who your dealing with.

Taz · 06-03-2008, 09:44 PM

A15.2.3 Boat Slips: Minimum Number. Accessible boat slips are not "reserved" for persons with disabilities in the same manner as accessible vehicle parking spaces. Rather, accessible boat slip use is comparable to accessible hotel rooms. The Department of Justice is responsible for addressing operational issues relating to the use of accessible facilities and elements. The Department of Justice currently advises that hotels should hold accessible rooms for persons with disabilities until all other rooms are filled. At that point, accessible rooms can be open for general use on a first come, first serve basis.

I would like to know how the town of Wolfeboro will address this section of the ADA accessibility code. As far as I know a town ordinance can not over rule a federal law which I believe this code is a part of. I would go to this hearing and ask but I can not make it. If someone else reading this is going maybe they could ask.

Airwaves · 06-03-2008, 10:43 PM

As someone who has a severely handicapped relative (confined to a wheelchair and unable to walk at all) I think the only realistic way to make a dock, public or otherwise, truely handicapped accessable is with a piece of equipment like THIS built into the dock designated as handicapped. Constructing more docks won't really help anyone confined to a wheelchair.

Do I think Wolfboro or any other community will do this? Nope, so putting a handicapped sign on a dock or two is only an attempt to try to show compliance to the ADA and avoid future lawsuits or federal compliance orders. IMHO

GWC... · 06-03-2008, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

As someone who has a severely handicapped relative (confined to a wheelchair and unable to walk at all) I think the only realistic way to make a dock, public or otherwise, truely handicapped accessable is with a piece of equipment like THIS built into the dock designated as handicapped. Constructing more docks won't really help anyone confined to a wheelchair.

A modified version of the below lift system would allow for the embarking and disembarking of a wheelchair and its occupant, not just the wheelchair. Think of the vehicle as being the dock and the lift arm possessing the ability to extend.

http://www.abledata.com/abledata.cfm...discontinued=0

jrc · 06-04-2008, 08:10 AM

If you search way back in this forum, you should find a thread on the Hoyer lift base at the Gilford public docks. From memory, an islander wanted to bring his disabled family member out to the island. He paid for, or convinced the town to install the base for a Hoyer lift on the Gilford public docks. It is still there. The only thing there is the base bolted to the dock, the user needs to have the lift mechanism. Most people that need one, rent one under their insurance. I remember seeing pictures of a man being lowered into a bowrider and going for a boat ride.

Airwaves · 06-04-2008, 07:36 PM

I do recall reading about that and I mentioned but it wasn't an option.

If they installed a base for a hoya lift at the Wolfboro 'handicapped' dock that would fit the bill, but short of that it's just another dock with a sign.

2Blackdogs · 06-06-2008, 03:07 PM

According to a glossy town mailing, there's a Lyman "In the Water Boat Show" at the Wolfeboro Town Docks tomorrow. 9AM-3PM. 569-4554 for information.

It'll be interesting to see how the docks get used then.

06-29-2007, 09:22 AM	#5
camp guy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: formerly Winter Harbor, still Wolfeboro Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 328 Thanked 567 Times in 315 Posts	Wolfeboro Docks question The gentleman standing by the sign in the paper in this week's issue of the Granite State News has been on a campaign to get handicapped spaces all over Town. Fine, maybe, if there was a need, but when you sit and watch the general population you just do not see all that many (if any) truly handicapped people. And with respect to boating, this is an excess interpretation of the law. This particular gentleman is correct in his knowledge of the ADA, and he is connected to the upper level ADA people, but his efforts at implementation are excessive.

07-02-2007, 10:31 AM	#10
AC2717 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Knoxville TN & Paugus Bay Posts: 2,616 Thanks: 756 Thanked 369 Times in 277 Posts	spots I agree seaplane, just because handicapped does not mean they should not pay, they already have preferred parking, My father was impaired for very long time and had a placard for the car window. He never drove because he could not but was allowed a placard, which is in a lot of cases. It was great to always have a parking spot up close for him when needed or when he was in the car, but never understood why you did not have to pay meter, in MA if you have a placard you can park in any metered spot and not pay the meter. I am all for a handicap spot on the docks, but that does not mean I want them to move to the front of the line to get to the dock before anyone else. If they are on the lake they should wait like everyone else. It is a lot different than the streets. If the spot is open for them then yes go in front of me and take the handicapped spot, if it is not though have to wait in line for another on or until that spot is available, which ever you prefer.

07-07-2007, 10:02 PM	#19
wildwoodfam Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: North Andover, MA & summers up at the BIG lake Posts: 285 Thanks: 5 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I still dont get it! I really do not get the concept of handicapped boat docks. I get that handicapped folks need that advantage in a parking lot - or on the street. To be closer to the shops, condos, restaurants, etc... that all makes sense. BUT what I do not understand is the true purpose of a handicap boat dock? Its not set up for an advantage on proximity - it seems to me to be set up for advantage on not having to queue up for a spot? Why does the handicapped boater get to "pass go and collect 200" while the rest of us sit and wait our turns for a dock space? There seems not to be equity in that situation in Wolfeboro. Where did handicapped boaters dock in Wolfeboro before the spaces were reserved this season? I just do not get it?

07-16-2007, 09:53 PM	#24
Taz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 347 Thanks: 3 Thanked 70 Times in 47 Posts	Handicap Docking I talked to the official walking the docks in Wolfboro regarding the handicap docking. I believe he also keeps track of autos in the parking lot at the town docks(he has the tool marking the tires to keep track of how long they are parked there) There is no statute to cover handicap docking. If you dock there you can not be given a ticket. It is only a suggestion. There is nothing at that dock that makes it any easier than any other dock at the Wolfboro town docks for an individual who is physically impaired to disembark from their boat. If I am in Wolfboro and there is no other space to dock, I will dock at the area with painted blue posts if no one else wants to dock there and I am next in line. If someone is boating and they are physically impaired then they were somehow able to enter the boat where they started from and they can disembark in Wolfboro at the town dock the same way. They should wait like everyone else. The official I talked to was very angry that this dock was designated for handicap docking. He told me that over the winter without telling him the entire dock was taken for handicap docking. He protested to the authorities citing there is no statute to allow this and they relented agreed to what it is now presently. He all but outright told me to dock there if I wished. I suggest every one else do the same. What fair is fair and this is not. This is nothing more than allowing someone to cut line.

07-17-2007, 08:06 AM	#25
oliviernh Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hampton and Rattlesnake Island Posts: 33 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Incorrect information Taz, unfortunately whoever gave you that information is incorrect. Anyone who has noticed the blue posts go halfway down on the outermost dock. Also the blue handicapped signs coincide with the blue posts. Two weekends ago I docked in the spot closest to shore on the outermost dock. this was after the blue posts and there were no handicapped signs going up that far on the dock. We ran to the hardware store and rite-aid and when we came back I had a nice bright orange ticket on my windshield for $250 for parking in a handicapped spot. The ticket also said if I had a handicapped tag it had to be displayed. Every boat on the outside dock had a ticket on their windshield. We were a little upset!! We pulled out and started to leave when we saw the marine patrol guy walking the docks. I turned the boat around and went back to my same parking spot (as no one had taken it yet). We proceeded to call the officer over and point out to him the blue posts only go 1/2 way down and we were clearly way past them. He said "well there is a sign right here" (at the end of the dock), however it is facing inland and you can't see it when pulling up in the boat. He explained that the whole outside of the dock was for handicapped parking and it was a serious offense and hence the ticket for $250, but he understood our argument and kindly decided to give us a warning and ripped up the ticket! But said next time we must diplay our handicapped tag if we had one. I told him I never heard of anyone getting one with thier boat. He didn't really have an answer for that. At anyrate they can and will ticket you. I have a ticket to prove it, however it is now ripped in half and "warning" is written over it in black marker.

06-28-2007, 09:08 AM	#1
AC2717 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Knoxville TN & Paugus Bay Posts: 2,616 Thanks: 756 Thanked 369 Times in 277 Posts	Hi all forum learkers , Heading over to Wolfeboro on Saturday with some guests for their first time, wanted to know if anyone ever cleared the air on the restrictions on the docks I have not been over there this year yet myself. Thank you

06-29-2007, 06:37 AM	#2
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,138 Thanks: 1,365 Thanked 577 Times in 295 Posts	There was a picture in the Grunter with a guy standing in front of two restricted (handicapped) docking spots. The sad thing about this is that there will be one boat there a week, if that. Otherwise they will sit empty. Given the heavy requirements on that docking facilty, it is too bad this got through. Couldn't we have lived with one spot? If one is handicapped and spent the entire day on the lake, would it hurt for them to spend another 10 minutes waiting for a spot? And aren't all the spots relatively equal in that the handicapped person will have to get into a wheel chair when exiting a boat anyway so does it really matter where the spots are located on the dock? After given this some thought, I have come out against this change. I understand the concept and intent and I'm all for helping out handicapped people; if I saw someone having trouble I'd be the first one to help or offer my spot. I just don't think Wolfeboro should have tied up this many resources for the very occasional need.

06-29-2007, 08:25 AM	#3
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,985 Thanks: 246 Thanked 744 Times in 444 Posts	I gotta agree with secondcurve. The idea may have been good but the exectution is awful. Handicapped spots should be closest to the parking lot. It looks like the town reserved spots that are convenient to boating but terribly inconvenient to anyone that struggle with walking. I suspect that if walking was difficult, one would not mind a tight squeeze going into an "inside" spot to get that much closer to land.

06-29-2007, 08:46 AM	#4
kjbathe Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 290 Thanks: 3 Thanked 23 Times in 13 Posts	What are the requirements to use the handicapped spots? Do you need a placard, a dock-specific permit, or just some visible impairment to be eligible?

06-29-2007, 11:41 AM	#6
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	The spaces do seem to be picked for ease of docking. That was one of my favorite spots. The number of spots is always a question, many stores seem to have way more spots than they need. But it's probably better than not enough. Don't you wish we lived in a society that didn't need these spots? People with extra needs would just be waved to the front of the line.

06-30-2007, 08:04 PM	#7
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,138 Thanks: 1,365 Thanked 577 Times in 295 Posts	I went by the Wolfeboro town docks today and of course the two handicapped spots were open and space was very tight with boats waiting to dock. Why couldn't the state have issued special flags to handicapped boaters (I'm assuming there are more than one on the lake, but I'm not all that sure) that could be used to move them to the front of the line for docking? Too simple a solution, I guess!

07-02-2007, 10:06 AM	#9
Seaplane Pilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,177 Thanks: 663 Thanked 943 Times in 368 Posts	On this subject of handicap parking: I have no problem with specific parking spots on city streets being designated as handicap parking spots. What kills me is in Manchester for example, all the parking spaces downtown have parking meters, except for the handicap parking spaces. Why should the people using these spaces get free parking? Never understood this.

07-02-2007, 08:18 PM	#11
MeEscape Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Da' Bay Posts: 39 Thanks: 6 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts	Good thought, but very poor execution and life is all about execution, however. I actually invited 'this guy" onboard a few weeks ago and had a lengthy discussion regarding his objectives and offered him many suggestions on how to better approach his efforts. He was very appreciative and thanked me for my suggestions and left. As he was leaving (after about 30 minutes of discussions) he told me he had my bow numbers and was turning them into the NHMP. Nice guy I thought!!

07-03-2007, 06:40 AM	#12
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,138 Thanks: 1,365 Thanked 577 Times in 295 Posts	Somehow it doesn't surprise me that this guy would do this. The world has gone crazy with political correctness!

07-07-2007, 06:08 PM	#17
Islander Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 321 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 3 Posts	Going back to feed a parking meter is illegal. When a meter has a two hour limit, that means you must leave within two hours. Putting more money in may prevent a ticket, but you are breaking the law. Also any time on the meter when you park is not yours. If you are parking for an hour you must put in an hours fee not matter how much is on the meter. Last time I went to Wolfeboro I parked in the handicapped spaces. I was looking for someone to say something but nobody did.

07-07-2007, 11:52 PM	#20
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	These spots are clearly not intended to be the shortest walk. So they may be chosen as the easiest to dock at. Or they are just reserved so handicapped boaters don't have to wait. It seems like a reasonable kindness for people needing extra help. But, it should be a law or not at all. You can't have a zealot making up their own rules, it's no way to run a town. Things like this start out well but can snowball. A family member lives in senior housing, where almost all the parking spots are labeled handicapped. There have been fist fights over who was handicapped enough to get close spots. Get used to this type of thing, the baby boomers are getting older. The "Me" generation all think they are entitled to special treatment, and they'll sue to get it. Once everyone gets handicapped plates, then what do you do? Have different levels of handicapped?

07-08-2007, 11:21 AM	#22
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,138 Thanks: 1,365 Thanked 577 Times in 295 Posts	Before the issue of reserving handicapped boat spaces got underway, I think the state should have had a box on its registration renewal form asking if the the registrant was handicapped. If enough folks checked the box, then the need could have been estimated. If it was great (which I still doubt for obvious reasons) then the following year the state could have required a doctors note with the renewal application to determine who was handicapped. These folks could then be issued special handicapped plates or bow numbers. Even in my system there would be no need for handicapped docking spots since the special bow number would move the boater to the front of the docking line for the next acceptable available spot. RLW maybe you should try to pursue the implemenation of this system rather than hanging around the town docks looking for trouble. My guess is that most, if not all forum members, would embrace such a system as it would not waste limited docking resources while meeting the needs of those few who truly need some help.

07-17-2007, 08:37 AM	#26
kjbathe Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 290 Thanks: 3 Thanked 23 Times in 13 Posts	Must Display the Placard? This is really a mess, isn't it? Following up on my earlier post when we "legitimately" used the spaces, I also thought we should be hanging the handicapped placard. But then I realized it was going to be hard to hang the placard on the boat at the same time it was hanging in the car. Perhaps we all need handicapped license plates instead of the placard, and then we can place one of the plates on the windshield of the boat??? And the whole side of the dock is restricted even though the few spots are clearly marked with blue and individual signs that DO face the water? With that logic one could argue that the whole row of parking spaces at Wal-Mart is for handicapped use even though only some of spaces are blue and the remainder are white because there's a sign at the end of the row??? Did they run out of blue paint in Wolfeboro and we're just supposed to know the intent was to keep painting the whole side? It's clear to me that few, if any, know what the rules are for the use of these spots or how their mis/use should be enforced. I'm still seeing the only benefit as time savings for handicapped boaters. And to AC2717's point above, I don't think the time of disabled individuals is any more valuable than the rest of ours. Unless/until a coherent and enforceable policy can be developed and communicated, the spaces should be opened up for everyone to use.

07-05-2007, 02:12 PM	#31
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	I didn't know if that was just a local or national deal. __________________ SIKSUKR

06-03-2008, 09:44 PM	#33
Taz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 347 Thanks: 3 Thanked 70 Times in 47 Posts	A15.2.3 Boat Slips: Minimum Number. Accessible boat slips are not "reserved" for persons with disabilities in the same manner as accessible vehicle parking spaces. Rather, accessible boat slip use is comparable to accessible hotel rooms. The Department of Justice is responsible for addressing operational issues relating to the use of accessible facilities and elements. The Department of Justice currently advises that hotels should hold accessible rooms for persons with disabilities until all other rooms are filled. At that point, accessible rooms can be open for general use on a first come, first serve basis. I would like to know how the town of Wolfeboro will address this section of the ADA accessibility code. As far as I know a town ordinance can not over rule a federal law which I believe this code is a part of. I would go to this hearing and ask but I can not make it. If someone else reading this is going maybe they could ask.

06-03-2008, 10:43 PM	#34
Airwaves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 1,153 Thanks: 9 Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts	As someone who has a severely handicapped relative (confined to a wheelchair and unable to walk at all) I think the only realistic way to make a dock, public or otherwise, truely handicapped accessable is with a piece of equipment like THIS built into the dock designated as handicapped. Constructing more docks won't really help anyone confined to a wheelchair. Do I think Wolfboro or any other community will do this? Nope, so putting a handicapped sign on a dock or two is only an attempt to try to show compliance to the ADA and avoid future lawsuits or federal compliance orders. IMHO

06-04-2008, 08:10 AM	#36
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	If you search way back in this forum, you should find a thread on the Hoyer lift base at the Gilford public docks. From memory, an islander wanted to bring his disabled family member out to the island. He paid for, or convinced the town to install the base for a Hoyer lift on the Gilford public docks. It is still there. The only thing there is the base bolted to the dock, the user needs to have the lift mechanism. Most people that need one, rent one under their insurance. I remember seeing pictures of a man being lowered into a bowrider and going for a boat ride.

06-04-2008, 07:36 PM	#37
Airwaves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 1,153 Thanks: 9 Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts	I do recall reading about that and I mentioned but it wasn't an option. If they installed a base for a hoya lift at the Wolfboro 'handicapped' dock that would fit the bill, but short of that it's just another dock with a sign. Last edited by Airwaves; 06-04-2008 at 07:36 PM. Reason: took out personal information

06-06-2008, 03:07 PM	#38
2Blackdogs Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 115 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	According to a glossy town mailing, there's a Lyman "In the Water Boat Show" at the Wolfeboro Town Docks tomorrow. 9AM-3PM. 569-4554 for information. It'll be interesting to see how the docks get used then.