West Alton Marina Experience

AMekler · 11-09-2006, 12:40 PM

We have kept our 1992 Supra at West Alton Marina for the past three years. The boat was purchased at Silver Sands and Roger has done all of our maintenance since new. In August I was informed that I was not being offered a slip for 2007. When I inquired why I was told it was because we did not use West Altoin Marina for our service.
I think this is a very unfair practice. Our contract included storage not maintenance. Please beware if you intend to rent at West Alton Marina and have your boat serviced elsewhere. This could happen to you.

Aquadeziac · 11-09-2006, 12:58 PM

ahhhhhh.....WAM strikes again!

NightWing · 11-09-2006, 02:23 PM

How did WAM know where your service was done? How about winterizing and spring recommissioning? Did WAM do that?

AMekler · 11-09-2006, 02:52 PM

The boat was winterized and dewinterized by Silver Sands. Boat was stored on a trailer at WAM.

NightWing · 11-09-2006, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMekler

The boat was winterized and dewinterized by Silver Sands. Boat was stored on a trailer at WAM.

I guess I can see their point. With a high demand for slips, they set a few ground rules. Kind of like when you have a big dinner party, the tip is included in the bill. Maybe if you paid for rack storage, it wouldn't have been an issue.

I had a slip there back in the 90's and had them do my work. Dave (from Dave's Motorboat Shoppe) was the mechanic and did excellent work. He isn't there anymore, but has his own business and is very well respected in the boating community.

Some marinas/dealers won't rent you a slip unless you buy a boat from them. Supply and demand is the boss. Let the economy turn spongy and the marina rules will probably ease up in direct proportion to empty slips.

MJM · 11-10-2006, 09:09 AM

It's a bummer, but makes sense. If you have more people wanting a slip than there are slips, you have to come up with a way to choose. One way is to take care of your best (i.e. those that give you the most amount of business overall) customers first.

IMO it is fair. It's good business sense.

valhala · 11-13-2006, 12:52 PM

If you were not told about this policy when you initially rented the slip, then I do not think it's fair. It's strange that you were there for three years with no problems. I am curious, did WAM ever mention to you before that this was part of their rental policy?

Lakewinniboater · 11-13-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valhala

If you were not told about this policy when you initially rented the slip, then I do not think it's fair. It's strange that you were there for three years with no problems. I am curious, did WAM ever mention to you before that this was part of their rental policy?

Well, I must say that I know not everyone uses them for maintence. However, I did occassionally and they were always great!!!

There may be another reason for them not re-newing your contract. Which is their right. If they got complaints, or the renter is "difficult" or a slew of other reasons, then they will NOT put you under contract again.

They are able to do this for many reasons. First it is their right...secondly, they have SO MANY people that want to be in there that they can do that and not worry about it negatively impacting their business.

As far as MJM stating that it is good business sense. I HIGHLY disagree with that remark. I don't always agree with the way WAM does things..... but it is an old business and people always come back. Because of location, service and the way it is maintained. However, there are people that do get very angry with the owners for the way they do things.... like this one.

However, it is one of the benefits of being the owner of a family business..... no corporate exec's telling you that you HAVE to do something. WAM can do as they please.

jrc · 11-13-2006, 04:35 PM

Supply and demand. They're business success depends on maximizing the dollars per slip. So unless you have a contract to the contrary, they can require that you do winterization and storage, routine maintenance, and anything else that they can think off. Check around, there will be empty slips this year, Mountain View had at least ten last season. You may not match the WAM prices. You may have made out cheaper overall if you paid WAM for service. Did they give you any hints that you where at risk?

fpartri497 · 11-13-2006, 06:37 PM

I just last Mth. signed on with WAM. for the 07 season full package they explained very carefully to me the entire program and I am very happy. my question would be , why would you want to go elsewhere for service? I was at parker marine for the last eight years and they did all my maintaince on my three boats. I wouldnt think of going elsewhere for service except at the marina where i have a slip.

Airwaves · 11-13-2006, 07:22 PM

I guess my only questions deal with the contract that you signed (assuming there was one).
Did it state that you had to have your boat serviced at WAM?
Did it address the issue at all?
What did the clause regarding termination of your contract say?

As for wanting to have your boat serviced at a marina other than the one where you have a slip, I go with the service department that does the best job at the best price and if that is somewhere other than where you tie up...

jrc · 11-13-2006, 10:40 PM

I doubt they broke a contract, Most slip contract are for a season. They really don't need a reason not to renew, but they gave one: didn't make enough money.

I agree 100% on service. It's really tough to find a mechanic that you trust, I would hate to give one up just to keep a slip. No disrespect intended to the WAM service people, I've never used them.

The Worm · 11-14-2006, 04:44 PM

I'm sure WAM has a long list of people waiting for slip rentals so they are able to selectively choose who they want to rent to based on $$$$$$. Good marine techs are hard to find, and with such a short season they need to make sure they bring in enough work to retain talented employees. This same theory is applied at private country clubs where you have to pay a monthy bar/restaurant tab whether you use it or not, purely money driven to maintain staff.

AMekler · 11-14-2006, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

I guess my only questions deal with the contract that you signed (assuming there was one).
Did it state that you had to have your boat serviced at WAM?
Did it address the issue at all?
What did the clause regarding termination of your contract say?

As for wanting to have your boat serviced at a marina other than the one where you have a slip, I go with the service department that does the best job at the best price and if that is somewhere other than where you tie up...

the contract did not mention service. my boat was the only inboard in the marina. i posted this note to warn other boaters of the practice of this marina.

Airwaves · 11-14-2006, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by The Worm:

Quote:

I'm sure WAM has a long list of people waiting for slip rentals so they are able to selectively choose who they want to rent to based on $$$$$$. Good marine techs are hard to find, and with such a short season they need to make sure they bring in enough work to retain talented employees. This same theory is applied at private country clubs where you have to pay a monthy bar/restaurant tab whether you use it or not, purely money driven to maintain staff.

I would agree except that when you join a private country club that requires you spend X amount of money a month you know that going in. From what AMekler posted the requirement to have his boat serviced at WAM was not in the contract and not mentioned verbally. Based on that fact I will avoid doing business with them.

ThePlut · 11-15-2006, 12:29 PM

When I got put on WAM's waiting list last year, it mentioned the winter storage, but not a all service requirement. The service requirement is definitely a deal breaker for me, I was considering getting on the list again this year, but no longer. Requiring service also means they don't have to be competitive on rates or cost. That doesn't seem right to me.

Are you sure it's *all* service and not just winterization/summerization? I can see that falling into the "winter storage".

The contract did mention that you have to have a boat < 10 years old to be on the waiting list, suggesting to me that they wanted new(er) boats. Most new boats come with a warrantee, why would you bring a boat under warrantee to anyone other than the selling dealer regardless of where you slip??

Well it's their pool, I guess they can decide who swims in it, and as long as they have people agreeing to their terms, no motivation to change.

I wouldn't buy a car from a car dealer that required me to use him for service.

NightWing · 11-15-2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePlut

I wouldn't buy a car from a car dealer that required me to use him for service.

Actually, there are some new car dealers that will give you a hard time on warranty work if you didn't buy the car from them.

There is a new boat dealer on the lake that only does warranty work on boats they sell.

WAM is in the service industry. If they can fill their slips with boats that they service, winterize, store and fit out each season, that is only good business. A waiting list for slips reinforces their position.

Alton Bay Resident · 11-15-2006, 03:27 PM

Like it or not… they can set up any written or unwritten rules, change them as they see fit as long as they have ‘others’ standing inline. I myself think the mandate for winter storage and service being done by WAM only SUCKS! and I’m glad I’m not there or based upon the available alternatives standing inline. Just my opinion…. (not right or wrong).

Mee-n-Mac · 11-15-2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

{snip} WAM is in the service industry. If they can fill their slips with boats that they service, winterize, store and fit out each season, that is only good business. A waiting list for slips reinforces their position.

I'd agree that it's WAM's business to do with what they want re: slips and service but not putting it (a stipulation for service) in the contract and letting the client know upfront is a diservice to both parties. AMekler is right to be peeved. Where's the dividing line ? Does a "Wammer" get to wax his/her own boat ? Change the oil ? Replace a prop ? How would they know ?

Rinkerguy · 11-16-2006, 02:11 PM

I became a member of WAM last year

I let them winterize the motor, change the motor and drive lub
I closed the domestics, acid washed, waxed and plan to bottom paint myself.
Never had an issue w/ them.

My only observation is that they do discourage older boats ... call it age discrimination if you want. That may be the issue here.

Just my $.02

Aquadeziac · 11-16-2006, 08:16 PM

WOW! If it isn't bad enough they restrict you to having them work on your boat, your boat isn't even good enough for them to work on if its over ten years old. What happenes if you have a 8 yr old boat? Do they notify you in two years that they are not renewing your slip contract cuz your boat is now 10 yrs old? Glad to know my 23 yrs old POS has outlived its usefulness and its fun factor has diminished. I always figured WAMers thought they were better than anyone else, so I guess its true....cuz they're required to have better boats.
Lovey dahling, move the umbrella please, the sun's warming up my Martini.

NightWing · 11-16-2006, 08:54 PM

The post said that the boat had to be less than 10 years old in order to be on the waiting list. It said nothing about being evicted if the boat turned 10 years while being slipped at WAM.

There seems to be lots of heresay and assumptions being posted in this thread. I still think we need to hear first hand what their policies are. WAM is a part of what the lake has to offer. Let's respect that.

Airwaves · 11-16-2006, 11:20 PM

Nightwing wrote:

Quote:

Before WAM is poorly spoken of any more, I think someone should either contact them to ask their policy or perhaps a current member could post the gist of their WAM contract.

LIforrelain wrote:

Quote:

I think Nightwing hit the nail on the head here. I understand why someone would be peeved if there slip was taken out from under Them. But if it is in the contract then there is no arguement here.

You folks are ignoring one important statement. The person who was just thrown out of WAM, the one with the most immediate knowledge of the contract, AMekler, stated:

Quote:

the contract did not mention service.

NightWing · 11-17-2006, 12:29 AM

You are also missing the part where the boat in question was stored on a trailer, not racked under cover. Racking is more expensive than lot storage. Obviously, WAM did not make the same income that they would have with racking and two season service.

One other point is that we are only hearing half the story.

Weirs guy · 11-17-2006, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

Racking is more expensive than lot storage. Obviously, WAM did not make the same income that they would have with racking and two season service.

OK, I gotta ask. I don't own a boat so I know nothing about storing them, but doesn't it stand to reason that the racks allow the maria to store more boats (by going vertically as well as horizontally) then just lot storage? They actually charge the customer more for something that benefits the company? Is there an advantage to rack storage I'm missing?

I may learn something new today!

Skip · 11-17-2006, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

...You folks are ignoring one important statement. The person who was just thrown out of WAM, the one with the most immediate knowledge of the contract...

Hmmmm.....

Let me play the devil's advocate here.

How do we know that the individual making the complaint was ever even a customer at WAM?

Did you see the contract between the alleged customer and WAM. How do you, or we, know what it said or did not say?

Did you personally contact the good folks at WAM to verify the anonymous individual's claims before you posted the following:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

...Based on that fact I will avoid doing business with them...

One important element that is necessary in a libel suit is evidence that a person's statement caused harm to the defendant. You, as a third party, have now publicly stated that you would avoid doing business with an entity due in part to public claims made by an alleged former customer.

A very slippery road to be on! And frankly I am surprised that someone with such an extensive media background as you profess would take such a profound public position without giving both sides the appropriate airing of their greivance.

Sadly the unfortunate "jumping to conclusions" mentality is something I am seeing all too often each night when I tune in the evening news. Objective journalism has been victimized for an ever increasing dependence on hype to ramp up sagging viewer ratings!

If ever there was a good example, this thread would suffice.

Skip

The Worm · 11-17-2006, 02:00 PM

I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. How many people would assume that they could call a plumber to come over to replace their water heater, but inform him that you're going to buy one at Home Depot yourself, or if you're taking your car in for repairs but you're going to stop at the local NAPA store to pick up the parts first. This just doesn't happen. These are profit centers for any business in the service industry, it is part of how they make money. Money is not a dirty word. Marine service, winterization, storage, and recomissioning are all part of the overall profit picture at ANY marina, IT IS HOW THEY MAKE MONEY! How many marinas allow you to haul in jerry cans of fuel if they have their own gas dock? (hint: NONE) Does this mean that you will refuse to do business with them because they make you buy "their fuel"? Nobody is being forced to slip their boat at WAM, and they must be providing excellent service to their customer base or they wouldn't have a list of people waiting to get in.

Airwaves · 11-18-2006, 12:49 PM

Nightwing wrote:

Quote:

You are also missing the part where the boat in question was stored on a trailer, not racked under cover. Racking is more expensive than lot storage. Obviously, WAM did not make the same income that they would have with racking and two season service.

One other point is that we are only hearing half the story.

It is my understanding that the complaint is WAM refused to renew his lease because he didn't have service performed on the boat at WAM, not because he did not pay extra for rack storage.

Now two folks that did/do business with WAM say that there is no mention of service being required to be performed at WAM as a condition to lease space at WAM.

Skip wrote:

Quote:

One important element that is necessary in a libel suit is evidence that a person's statement caused harm to the defendant. You, as a third party, have now publicly stated that you would avoid doing business with an entity due in part to public claims made by an alleged former customer.

A very slippery road to be on! And frankly I am surprised that someone with such an extensive media background as you profess would take such a profound public position without giving both sides the appropriate airing of their greivance.

If I were doing a story about this certainly I would investigate both sides and beyond as well as demand to see a copy of the signed contract and contracts with other boaters. However, since many things on this forum are stated as fact I have no reason to believe that AMekler is doing anything beyond giving folks on the forum a heads up to the way WAM conducts business.

If you go back and review the posts, you will see that before stating my opinion and decision, I asked whether or not AMekler's contract contained any language regarding service on his boat being a condition of leasing space at WAM. His answer was that no such language existed in his contract. Again, I have no reason to believe he was lying about it.

I will take his advice and I stated my decision. If you choose not to take his advice to heart, that is your choice
and now given that fpartri497 outlined the highlights of the contract with WAM it reenforces AMekler's complaint and my decision.

As for me being sued for stating my opinion and decision, good luck to them!

(edited to add paragraph suggesting you go back and read a prior post, and to clean up extra wordage)

michael · 03-13-2007, 05:41 PM

What ever happened to the guy or gals that always paid their bill on time. At one time they were known as "the best" customers".

11-09-2006, 12:40 PM	#1
AMekler Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: diamond island Posts: 24 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	West Alton Marina Experience We have kept our 1992 Supra at West Alton Marina for the past three years. The boat was purchased at Silver Sands and Roger has done all of our maintenance since new. In August I was informed that I was not being offered a slip for 2007. When I inquired why I was told it was because we did not use West Altoin Marina for our service. I think this is a very unfair practice. Our contract included storage not maintenance. Please beware if you intend to rent at West Alton Marina and have your boat serviced elsewhere. This could happen to you.

11-09-2006, 12:58 PM	#2
Aquadeziac Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Concord NH Posts: 239 Thanks: 19 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Wam ahhhhhh.....WAM strikes again! __________________ "He who dies with the most toys wins"

11-13-2006, 06:37 PM	#10
fpartri497 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Concord NH Posts: 681 Thanks: 97 Thanked 48 Times in 39 Posts	Wam I just last Mth. signed on with WAM. for the 07 season full package they explained very carefully to me the entire program and I am very happy. my question would be , why would you want to go elsewhere for service? I was at parker marine for the last eight years and they did all my maintaince on my three boats. I wouldnt think of going elsewhere for service except at the marina where i have a slip. __________________ dont worry be happy

11-13-2006, 07:22 PM	#11
Airwaves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 1,153 Thanks: 9 Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts	Contract? I guess my only questions deal with the contract that you signed (assuming there was one). Did it state that you had to have your boat serviced at WAM? Did it address the issue at all? What did the clause regarding termination of your contract say? As for wanting to have your boat serviced at a marina other than the one where you have a slip, I go with the service department that does the best job at the best price and if that is somewhere other than where you tie up...

11-14-2006, 04:44 PM	#13
The Worm Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 41 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	I'm sure WAM has a long list of people waiting for slip rentals so they are able to selectively choose who they want to rent to based on $$$$$$. Good marine techs are hard to find, and with such a short season they need to make sure they bring in enough work to retain talented employees. This same theory is applied at private country clubs where you have to pay a monthy bar/restaurant tab whether you use it or not, purely money driven to maintain staff. __________________ Did you ever notice that when you put the words "the" and "IRS" together, it spells "THEIRS" The Worm...

11-09-2006, 02:23 PM	#3
NightWing Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	How did WAM know where your service was done? How about winterizing and spring recommissioning? Did WAM do that?

11-09-2006, 02:52 PM	#4
AMekler Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: diamond island Posts: 24 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	The boat was winterized and dewinterized by Silver Sands. Boat was stored on a trailer at WAM.

11-10-2006, 09:09 AM	#6
MJM Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 262 Thanks: 0 Thanked 23 Times in 11 Posts	It's a bummer, but makes sense. If you have more people wanting a slip than there are slips, you have to come up with a way to choose. One way is to take care of your best (i.e. those that give you the most amount of business overall) customers first. IMO it is fair. It's good business sense.

11-13-2006, 12:52 PM	#7
valhala Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts	If you were not told about this policy when you initially rented the slip, then I do not think it's fair. It's strange that you were there for three years with no problems. I am curious, did WAM ever mention to you before that this was part of their rental policy?

11-13-2006, 04:35 PM	#9
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Supply and demand. They're business success depends on maximizing the dollars per slip. So unless you have a contract to the contrary, they can require that you do winterization and storage, routine maintenance, and anything else that they can think off. Check around, there will be empty slips this year, Mountain View had at least ten last season. You may not match the WAM prices. You may have made out cheaper overall if you paid WAM for service. Did they give you any hints that you where at risk?

11-13-2006, 10:40 PM	#12
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	I doubt they broke a contract, Most slip contract are for a season. They really don't need a reason not to renew, but they gave one: didn't make enough money. I agree 100% on service. It's really tough to find a mechanic that you trust, I would hate to give one up just to keep a slip. No disrespect intended to the WAM service people, I've never used them.

11-15-2006, 12:29 PM	#16
ThePlut Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 150 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts	Wam When I got put on WAM's waiting list last year, it mentioned the winter storage, but not a all service requirement. The service requirement is definitely a deal breaker for me, I was considering getting on the list again this year, but no longer. Requiring service also means they don't have to be competitive on rates or cost. That doesn't seem right to me. Are you sure it's all service and not just winterization/summerization? I can see that falling into the "winter storage". The contract did mention that you have to have a boat < 10 years old to be on the waiting list, suggesting to me that they wanted new(er) boats. Most new boats come with a warrantee, why would you bring a boat under warrantee to anyone other than the selling dealer regardless of where you slip?? Well it's their pool, I guess they can decide who swims in it, and as long as they have people agreeing to their terms, no motivation to change. I wouldn't buy a car from a car dealer that required me to use him for service.

11-15-2006, 03:27 PM	#18
Alton Bay Resident Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	Just My Opinion - (right or wrong) Like it or not… they can set up any written or unwritten rules, change them as they see fit as long as they have ‘others’ standing inline. I myself think the mandate for winter storage and service being done by WAM only SUCKS! and I’m glad I’m not there or based upon the available alternatives standing inline. Just my opinion…. (not right or wrong).

11-16-2006, 02:11 PM	#20
Rinkerguy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 122 Thanks: 0 Thanked 33 Times in 24 Posts	Wam I became a member of WAM last year I let them winterize the motor, change the motor and drive lub I closed the domestics, acid washed, waxed and plan to bottom paint myself. Never had an issue w/ them. My only observation is that they do discourage older boats ... call it age discrimination if you want. That may be the issue here. Just my $.02

11-16-2006, 08:16 PM	#21
Aquadeziac Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Concord NH Posts: 239 Thanks: 19 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Wam WOW! If it isn't bad enough they restrict you to having them work on your boat, your boat isn't even good enough for them to work on if its over ten years old. What happenes if you have a 8 yr old boat? Do they notify you in two years that they are not renewing your slip contract cuz your boat is now 10 yrs old? Glad to know my 23 yrs old POS has outlived its usefulness and its fun factor has diminished. I always figured WAMers thought they were better than anyone else, so I guess its true....cuz they're required to have better boats. Lovey dahling, move the umbrella please, the sun's warming up my Martini. __________________ "He who dies with the most toys wins"

11-16-2006, 08:54 PM	#22
NightWing Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	The post said that the boat had to be less than 10 years old in order to be on the waiting list. It said nothing about being evicted if the boat turned 10 years while being slipped at WAM. There seems to be lots of heresay and assumptions being posted in this thread. I still think we need to hear first hand what their policies are. WAM is a part of what the lake has to offer. Let's respect that.

11-17-2006, 12:29 AM	#24
NightWing Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	You are also missing the part where the boat in question was stored on a trailer, not racked under cover. Racking is more expensive than lot storage. Obviously, WAM did not make the same income that they would have with racking and two season service. One other point is that we are only hearing half the story.

11-17-2006, 02:00 PM	#27
The Worm Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 41 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. How many people would assume that they could call a plumber to come over to replace their water heater, but inform him that you're going to buy one at Home Depot yourself, or if you're taking your car in for repairs but you're going to stop at the local NAPA store to pick up the parts first. This just doesn't happen. These are profit centers for any business in the service industry, it is part of how they make money. Money is not a dirty word. Marine service, winterization, storage, and recomissioning are all part of the overall profit picture at ANY marina, IT IS HOW THEY MAKE MONEY! How many marinas allow you to haul in jerry cans of fuel if they have their own gas dock? (hint: NONE) Does this mean that you will refuse to do business with them because they make you buy "their fuel"? Nobody is being forced to slip their boat at WAM, and they must be providing excellent service to their customer base or they wouldn't have a list of people waiting to get in. __________________ Did you ever notice that when you put the words "the" and "IRS" together, it spells "THEIRS" The Worm...

03-13-2007, 05:41 PM	#29
michael Junior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 14 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Paying your bill! What ever happened to the guy or gals that always paid their bill on time. At one time they were known as "the best" customers".